Tuning for Maximum Resonance | Season Five, Episode 24
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- Опубліковано 28 лис 2022
- There are a lot of polarizing opinions out there when it comes to how to get the most resonant sound out of your drums. We’ve already disproved the myth of tuning to the resonant pitch of the drum shell and we’ve demonstrated ways to get the most out of any tuning through choice of mounting system. This time we’re exploring the idea of batter vs. reso interval.
PATREON:
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PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
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Signal chain:
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Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
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Snare, Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12vr sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
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GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15" Zildjian “Fat Hat” Prototype Hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans UV1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans G1 & G12 Coated / G1 Clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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![“Fixing” Your Snare Sound [Step by Step] | Season Five, Episode 40](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xosBfmxmm40/mqdefault.jpg)
You know you’re a drum nerd when you wake up to a new SLAD video and it feels like Christmas morning
But you dont play drums.
@@aphexon. I have for almost 15 years😂
If resonance means the longest sustain, I’d go with the first tuning. The pitch bend you get from tuning the resonant head higher can seem “bigger” though. This sound always makes me think of Dave Weckl.
Edit: I’m honestly shocked… I’ve tuned hundreds of kits and could have sworn the unison kit was the first one. Great video!!
The second tuning was more resonant… (let’s see if I’m ‘right’, unpause)
Ok, I picked the unison as I thought. Unison is handy when you’re going to crank the toms (i.e. bop tuning) so that you retain some resonance at almost choked. Some snares respond well to unison, even though some people may think that’s anathema. For an all-purpose sound, unison can feel like a bit much (particularly on floor toms). But as you say, it REALLY comes down to which drums, which room, which genre. Also, a lot of what might sound “ringy” on its own starts to blend into the music and sound great. Quality drums should sing, let them sing. If you’re looking for a shorter sound, that’s easy enough to achieve - I think it’s better to tune for a big, full sound and use light muffling IF needed. If you need rolls of tape and piles of blankets, somethings wrong. Experimenting with lots of different tunings will give you options for lots of different scenarios. There can be no “right” tuning for all drums in all places at all times. You guys always articulate these things so well, you’re the thinking drummer’s best resource.
Paused at 2:10. I felt like the higher pitched rack tom tuning and the lower pitched floor tom tuning resonated longer. Ultimately I couldn't tell which was unison and which was an interval. It actually makes me happy to barely be able to tell, and that I chose two different methods and liked them both. If there is one thing I am learning about drums is that every day and every room is different. I don't try to tune to pitches. I simply tune until they sound nice together. I play a 3-piece and was informed by a trumpet player that I was tuned in 4ths from drum to drum. I didn't ask, he just said he liked it and told me why.
The room has such a big effect on acoustic instruments, and for sure on drums. If you’ve played your drum in 1 room and think you know what it sounds like, take it to another room. Or, placing it somewhere else in the same room can sometimes change the sound. To think there is 1 tuning, or muffling setting is - well you better not gig in different venues. :-) Thank you for helping drummer’s understand that a) it depends and b) showing how it can depend and how to approach it - from a Patreon supporter
i didn't stop the video, but I'm not about to lie about my thoughts. i thought the first tuning was more resonant and assumed this was unison tuning.
i have always tuned my resonant heads a little higher than my batter heads, because this is the way snares are typically tuned and it has felt and sounded good for me.
having said that, i own 2 Sleishman snares. if you don't know what these are, they are well-made shells with completely free-floating, cage-like hardware, making them default to unison tuning (unless you're going dissonant between lugs). they are very resonant and sound really good at some tunings, but not all, as you might imagine.
I was doing sound for a band on tour recently, and the main part of getting a good sound to me is getting the drums sounding good, so I ended up drum teching for the whole tour too.
The drummer bought clear hydraulics cause he wanted kind of a fat dead sound, but this is where something clicked to me. In the same way when tuning a guitar by going off the fat string, you can tell when a string is slightly out because the sound "wobbles" and I spent a bit too long on day two fine tuning this wobble away, then the bit i don't fully understand, I think I must have stumbled upon the resonant frequency of the drum and once i got the batter head equal to that, then tuned the reso heads to the resonant frequency of the batter head and the shell, or a perfect combination of the two, you could hit these toms once at the start of the song and it would still be singing by the end of it. In a musical way though.
It was too much for the pa most days so ended up undoing any art I had stumbled across with moongels and gates, but it has sent me on a journey now.
In the same way gain and volume are two different things, but whose definitions overlap, resonance and sustain are equal cousins.
great info! Thank you!
Unison tuning was my go to as a younger player as it was easy for my novice ears to find, and like you said, was pleasing to my ear. Once I got into a recording studio I quickly found out how my lust for "resonance" wasnt necessarily shared by the engineer and different situations (mic'd up and not) may call for different head, tuning or treatment. Great points and show as always, appreciate you guys.
1st one sounded more resonant. I liked the 1st tuning for the rack tom and the second tuning for the floor. Now back to the video!
This is what I heard, I'm too lazy to write it out again myself when you've already said it 😂👍🏻
10:18 caught my attention. Equal tension only means unison tuning if you have the same weight heads for the batter and reso. You can still change the interval (albeit with less control) by using a lighter reso head.
Yes, indeed!
Thankyou for all these videos and insight. Finally bringing some maturity to drum tuning . We'll done guys
Thanks so much for the kind words! That really means a lot to us. -Ben
My go to tuning approach for any given situation or gig, is to get the heads as much in tune with themselves the night before or morning of before setting up. This way I can quickly adjust the tone or resonance by manipulating one of the lugs either on the batter, the reso, or both. Once the heads are singing and no warbling effect, its really easy to manipulate the tone and feel with slight adjustments to just one lug. I just feel getting the drums in tune with themselves is the most important part to making these quick adjustments.
Thanks for the advice.
I thought the first tuning had a bit more resonance and a sound that I preferred more than the second tuning. Thanks for all the great videos!!!
The BEST advice once again. I tend to, “clear”, my drums, (get both heads in tune with themselves). Then adjust depending on the situations. THANKS AGAIN! 🔊⭐️
To my ear they're both very resonant, but the unison tuning sounds more "open", although it feels more dissonant and "dirty" as the batter head stretches more when played, so the heads aren't actually resonating in unison pitch the whole time. When the reso heads are taught up higher than the batter, that cleans up the sound a lot and it feels more modern and more responsive, maybe because the difference in pitch is bigger and the ear doesn't pick up on the minute dissonance as much, and the batter head is the more dominant one in producing the fundamental.
I noticed it most with the floor Tom and for me the first was definitely more resonant. I heard someone else describe resonance as differing from sustain by resonance is a “big” sound whereas sustain is just a long sound. It’s the perfect plain language description.
Well said Cody! You always do great videos! I went to a studio gig and I asked where I was going to be in the studio and they said we were all going to be in the same room. When I get there, they tell me that they decided they want the drums in the drum booth. To save time I tuned my set in my living room, which is four times the size of my music room so I would have a point of departure. Even though this was a professional studio, when I put my set in that drum booth I got all kinds of crosstalk and had to retune the heads. Ugh, but it’s all fun 🥁
Thank you for another very interesting video. I always had my Sonor toms tuned in unison for 20 years and it really influenced my drumming style. Having very long resonance, I playing the toms slower more like a bass riff. I will sometimes use control rings for recording. I would love to hear you tune Sonor drums in unison and hear that nice long Sonor tom sound. While watching this video I thought about unison tuning that happen with Sleishman drum but they are a lot like WTS drums.
The cable tuned drums might not always be in unison. If there is a difference in the mass between the batter and reso heads, won't they exhibit different pitches at the same tension?
That was great, brilliant even, when describing the methodology to getting the sound you want. All my individual drums require a different tuning process because they are all "different."
Well said! 👏🏻🤓 Amen!
I love this video. Y'all are so funny
Blind answer. First tuning more resonant. Second one is lower with some pitch bend.
I'd say the resonance is pretty similar. First tuning sounds like unison to me, second is reso higher than batter...how'd I do?
Oohh, I just listened to the answers and I FAILED the test!! :D
I prefer the sound on the first tuning !
This discussion about resonance is particularly relevant to bass drums. I know guys that have incredible sounding bass drums, but they're so resonant/ loud that I find them difficult to play. In one situation you can hear his bass drum half way down the block from the club!!! Keep up the good work guys..........
Just comparing notes with what I've generally done, over my 58 years of playing.... (I have almost always used coated Diplomat or coated Ambassador heads.) It's interesting that if you use these heads tensioned the same on batter and reso sides, the batter heads will of course stretch a bit, or "break in",after a few nights' playing to anywhere from a step to a minor third lower. So, by beginning (with new heads) and both heads tensioned the same, you end up with the reso head tensioned to a step to a minor third higher after a few nights. (which is what Remo themselves advise, as you often do) Just one guy's experience... :)
"Always" and "Never" tends to come from people with either a lack of, or limited practical experience (small and large gigs, sessions, travel/ backline, cartage gear, etc). Too often, there are social media drummers with limited experience/ knowledge - passing on their POV as though it is tried and true, and vetted. Anyone can take a crap kit, muffle the daylights out of it and then manipulate it in their DAW to sound very differently than they do at the kit.
on another note, it definitely changes from drummer to kit to heads to venue. i was at a drum fantasy camp some years ago with Dave Weckl. the performance show was delayed by (no lie) 45 minutes while Mr Weckl worked on his sound. it was wonderful though, because the greats Steve Smith and Benny Greb came outside and did some snare work for the crowd.
Seems like sometimes there's a weird phase cancellation with unison
It would be interesting to experiment and find a tunning for all the drums and cymbals in the kit that had the the most resonance and cross talk as possible sort of like turning the gain way up on an electric guitar and use a single microphone setup positioned in different places in the room.
At theese low tunings the resonance is hard to perceive. For me, a jazz drummer, tuning in unison for the higher jazz pitches works best because I feel it gives me significantly more resonance. I feel like the resonance comes with the higher pitches. Higher pitches can resonate between the heads more since the sound wave is smaller and as such “fit” in the drum. It would be nice to hear the differences with higher pitches.
Love the video!
The first one sounded most resonant
Did not expect the results!
Also it doesn't seem like either one has any less or more, just resonance in different frequencies
I heard a big difference right off the bat but who cares. For me, "resonance" isn't just how long a drum sustains or doesn't sustain. It is all about how the stick feels when I hit the drum. I have been playing 50 years now and I have used and tried every possible combination of tunings and head combinations. I for the most part, like the feel of a drum when the resonant head is tuned higher vs the batter head. But it is a constant moving target from one gig to the next and even from one song to the next! Adjustments are just part of the game!
As you mentioned, if sympathetic vibrations are kicking in, then perhaps you need to adjust other drums as well. It is a KIT! A whole and functional instrument! Everything has to work in tandem. So just getting a rack tom to sound great involves all the other drums you have on your kit at the time.
My first priority is to get the drums as wide open and playable as possible. I have to use that premise as my starting point. Even if later in the process I want to dampen it down a touch. I firmly believe that starting with that sonic pallet, I have the most options available to me. I can also make a resonant drum drier. I can't make a dry drum more resonant.!!
Tune bots and other "tools" are NOT a substitute for teaching your ears and your hands to tuning and feeling your drums. Sometimes a single lug slightly out of tension vs the rest of the head is exactly what is called for at the moment. I see way too many times the notion that if I use a tool and all the lugs are "the same" (which NEVER happens by the way! EVER!). Then my drum is in tune. Not remotely true!!! Not in the slightest. Even if you play guitar and you use a tuner, and each individual string is in "tune", it doesn't mean they are necessarily in sync with each other! THAT is the bigger factor. Same with drums except you have unlimited factors playing against each other. Each drum to itself. That drum to the next drum. And so forth.
You have to spend time with your gear. LISTENING. Paying attention to how it feels! Tuning is very important but if the drum doesn't feel right to your hands and feet? What's the point?
nr 1 sounded more resonant, longer tone/sustain and more overtones. nr 2 sounded more punchy, with less overtones and sustain. i prefer nr 2, but nr 1 does not sound bad. its all in the playing, recording, mixing and context.
a big thank you for nerding out, with and for us drummers. Now let us see and here some tips on tuning/quick fix on not in tune drums, we have all played backline drums...
Judging by the relation to the overtone from the batter vs the fundamental pitch of the drum, I’d guess the 2nd tuning is both heads tuned the same ‘cause that usually ends up with the batter around a major 6th above the fundamental. Resonance wise I didn’t notice much difference even though I know equal tuning is meant to give the most resonance. I definitely prefer the sound of the 1st tuning.
Edit: thanks for another interesting video! Just out of curiosity how did you adjust the floor tom tuning to eliminate the crosstalk from the kick? Lower the reso?
Per your request, I'm paused at 2:15. Probably, the second (lower) tunings are the non-unison ones, and I think you'll probably declare them the most resonant. To my ear, though, the first (higher) tunings are the better-sounding ones.
Yes, I'm surprised. I guess there was a reason why the first ones sounded better to me. And I agree--"resonant" can have a lot of different meanings. In this case, I took it to mean "sustained, with good tone."
Final edit. I've always shied away from unison tuning because of the principle of standing waves. I see that I'm mistaken. Maybe I'll give it a try sometime. Thanks, as always, for another thought-provoking video.
I’d say that the first is more “resonant” to my ear. There’s more clarity and brightness to the tom sound. I also hear more attack. Where the second demo has more sustain than attack to it.
I think you did a mix and match. I like the first rack tom and the second floor tom, those sounded the most resonant to me.
EDIT: Welp... I was wrong about that one. But I've also started thinking that floor toms and rack toms should be treated as different instruments rather than just different sizes of the same instrument.
I never worry about unison pitching. I typically use different head thicknesses top and bottom, so they aren't going to sound exact anyway. I have nothing against it, I just never did it. My theory was that two complimentary notes sound cool and two of the same note sound cool. So... lol. I do think it's harder to keep two heads at the same pitch when playing and that a slight change can cause some phase cancelation. At the end of the day, in the mix at a live gig, not gonna matter much. Recording would be a little more critical.
The pitches are very different so it’s hard to choose just one. They are both very resonant. I feel like the higher pitch tunings offer more versatility in character. Where the second set of lower tunings are great for “fatter” “rock” type applications. As a multi stylist, I currently prefer the first set of higher tunings that have more overtone character.
The more resonant to my ear were the lower-pitched tuning on the up and higher-sounding on the floor which was interesting because one of them wasn't "Unison."
Yeh I used to tune top and bottom the same. Now I use Nollys tuning style to a minor third, Batter lower than Reso.
The second time on the rack tom is both heads tuned the same and a little more resonate.
Tuning my toms has always revolved around snare buzz. I first set up my snare being the most important to me. Everything revolves around my snare, but that’s just me.
Both tunings sounded fine, but the first had more resonance to it which would work great for minimal miking (ex: Glyn Johns), but the second would be more preferred for close miking.
Not so much about resonance, it is two general ways of drum sound. One is trying to get as much pitch bend as possible (transcend high taper to low sustain) and as stable as possible.
Learning from your video, same pitch or fifth have a more stable pitch and the semi tone have that nice musical bending. I was suprosed the fifth was also stable.
it depends where your sitting... close up the drums sound different, out in the room, the tuning with the different head tones will project better, and sound more resonant in the room.
As far as resonance goes, I think they both sounded the same. However, I preferred the first (unison?)
Tuning myself…
Just watched more than three minutes in, and yes, I am surprised!!
I didn’t hear much difference in the rack tom resonance. I heard more in the higher tuning on the floor tom. That combined with the sustain influence what I heard.
The first two of both rack and floor tom sounded best to me.....resonant, well, the second of both rang out more, but sounded kinda weird to my ears.......now, that I've done as told, back to your video :)
There's something to be said for the pitch of each as well. Deeper tones seem to carry more. Is it more resonant? Well...
The first one seems more resonant to me. The 2nd one doesn't maintain it's low end as long but it does keep the overtones
Same
#2 hit me with a solid note that was thicker and more pronounced. Felt like I could hear the shell engaging more. I did pause the video. I believe at this point #2 is the unison tuning due to the little to no pitch bending, mainly in the rack tom is where I can hear that... Let's see if I'm right? 😅
Daiiiim nice. Got it right. Curious how the rack gave it away in #1 for me. Either it's in a more human ear friendly range OR it was the interval and how the reso side supported the sound differently... Probably both.
I also found that if you're tuning for maximum resonance a factor at play is how hard the drum will be hit. If I'm playing in a lighter hitting environment I gear towards unison tuning because I find the drum carries better and sounds "warmer". If I'm hitting harder I'll tune up the reso because I find the drum thicker with the higher pitch support underneath. Even though the sustain is shorter with the higher pitch, the drum is more resonant when hitting hard. Not sure why scientifically, but it's what has worked for me quite well.
If you are tuning the heads at the same tension, it doesn't necessarily mean that the heads are at the same tuning, does it?
If my twin skin batter head is the same tension as my single ply resonant head then the reso seems to be at a higher tuning.
We've got the same thickness of batter and reso here so yes, equal tension means the same pitch. Different amounts of mass between batter and reso will yield different pitches at the same tension but again, unless you're using something like WTS, you're probably adjusting both aheads independently and focusing on sound rather than tension.
My choice for more resonant: Number 1 on the rack tom. Number 2 on the floor tom. I can't notice the difference when you play single stroke rolls. Only in the fist part with a single stick.
Interesting how that sort of detail disappears once you start playing anything beyond slow single strokes. That starts to raise the question, "does this really matter?"
@@SoundsLikeADrum Exactly. We love your channel.
I think number 2 is the most resonant. I heard a little more of the sound keep going on in the second example.
Drummers are often surprised when they discover how good a drum can sound with both heads at the same pitch, particularly when the shell isn't restricted by all of that hardware. It just goes to show that the sound is what we should remain focused on rather than a particular recipe for tuning.
Great advice. There is no right sound. Just different sounds
Without a doubt, the first tuning is more resonant. The second one seems to have a little more attack though.
So my caveman tuning is very simple, i tune the batter till it feels right, then Adjust the reso to too change the length or shortness of note.
Im personally more of a fan of tuning #1. To me it sounds like the drum has a more pronounced fundamental pitch, and potentially more projection in the room.
The First One seems more "focused" and i'd Say uniform, bigger and overall pleasant, the second One sounds thin and almost off to me.
I’d say the first example is the most resonant. I think that’s the unison tuning
Woah I was blown away
The first was unison???
Dang!
#1
I felt that the first tuning was more resonant, the second had a shorter note and some strange papery overtones.
1st sounds best
I wonder how often we confuse resonance with sustain.....
Quite a few people mistake sustain for resonance. A drum doesn’t need a long sustain for it to be resonant.
1st more resonant... on my phone 🤷♂️
The sound I prefer from my toms, in a word, is “tooooom.” What I don’t want is “boiiiing” or “baWOW.” In my experience, the only way I can get that sound is unison tuning. I apologize to anyone who feels unsafe by this viewpoint . 🥴
That's excellent to have a clear idea of what you're looking for! Have you ever experienced the phenomenon where the same tuning method applied on different drums yields different results?
@@SoundsLikeADrum No, I haven’t. I play 4-piece kits with 12x8 and 14x14 toms. The main thing I’ve noticed is that if I don’t have the two heads tuned exactly the same, I don’t get that full fundamental tone. If they are slightly close in pitch, I get something like hitting a harmonic on a guitar. The farther apart they get, I’ll get either a “boiiiing” (bottom head too high) or a “baWOW” (bottom head too low). Also, I tune the 12” drum to a D below middle C at each lug and the 14” to G below middle C. I play Evans Calftone on the batter and clear G1 on the bottom.
The first tuning sounded to have more resonance to me
Ok, but that technique 8:48 - consider it stolen!
I paused. Honestly. The higher pitched tuning was more resonant. And I know that it's because the reso is tuned higher. I don't understand drummers who tune both heads to the same pitch. It sounds lifeless. My resos are always a Perfect 4th or minor 3rd higher, depending on the drum type and musical context. I'm stuck in my ways because it objectively works well for almost any performance, live or studio. Anything else is just either experimental or going for an auxiliary type of sound. All legit, of course.
Now, on with the video...
Edit:
OK. I finished the video now. Here's what I think. I didn't learn anything new personally, but I was very pleased about this video hitting spot on for some drummers, young or old, who might be hearing this for the first time. Cory, you are and excellent teacher. I could listen to you explain a phone book because of your articulation and word choices.
Overall, I think the approach of this video is best for experienced drummers who already know how to tune extremely well. It's that deeper lesson that is otherwise so hard to find on the Internet.
Having said that, it's also a perfect video for a beginner of tuning drums. I understand it because the lessons here are exactly how I taught myself to listen to the drums. I experimented extensively to find my sound with my drums.
Earlier, I stated that I like the minor 3rd and Perfect 4th intervals. Yes. And I can't say anything else other than it's a starting point that sounds really good.
This video will do two things. One. Help someone get to their own repeatable, good sounding starting point. Two. Lead them from their starting point to a sound that works extremely well in a given room with given drums.
My Pearl Reference Pures sound best in my live blues venue with a minor 3rd pitch bend. It took me over a year of experiments to arrive at this conclusion. And it took different drummers every week playing my kit so I could hear the sound out front. Individual drummers are completely different, but now I have a killer drum sound for my venue even before the bands arrive. It's an average genric sound that magically sounds anything but average. My goals and approach are well defined for my needs. That's a hard thing to articulate too.
I'm still learning a lot from SLAD. Loving this journey, guys. Thank you for YOUR talents!
The higher tuning was more residence
The first tunning sounds much fuller and more stable
The second one has the pich dropping too fast, it's kind of annoying
The second one is def way more resonant. Seems obvious to me
I prefer the interval tuning over the unison tuning for its sustain and tonal quality. The unison tuning produced too much pitch bending for my taste. As a consequence, it also seemed to reduce sustain (which, admittedly, could be a good thing depending on the circumstances).
Tuning 1 “felt” more resonant to me.
2 is more resonant
#2 is better/more resonant
Food for thought: is more resonant ALWAYS better?
@@SoundsLikeADrum no absolutely not but for my own taste and when i play at home which is usually what i do now.....i love the thunderous, big sound. I have a vintage ludwig so that helps too. 😂😂
1st
1st
Am new at drumming and am curious about something. I have a 6 piece kit 8/10/12/14/16/22, and I tune all the resonats to 70 using a drum dial. But every baterhead is tune differently. Starting with my 16 floor @75 and increasing by 1 on each other head till reaching 79 on my 8. Is this a good idea?
Ok video paused. First listen, phone audio, not headphones. Rack tom i would say the first one was more resonant, and floor tom i would say the second