Why Gateway Arch is a National Park (but shouldn't be)
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2023
- Gateway Arch IS a National Park, but shouldn't be. By any criteria we usually measure for "National Parks," Gateway Arch doesn't meet any of them. Even the Park Service itself wasn't in favor of the name change. But, this isn't just a bunch of park nerds arguing over semantics here - the implications of Gateway Arch becoming a National Park are massive for our National Parks and for the National Park System as a whole. I explain it all in this video.
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Being from STL I totally agree on it's suspect designation as a national park however I will take umbrage with one fact! At 4:10 you say it is 360 feet tall when the arch is 630 feet tall
Yep, you're totally right. Had the right height in my notes, but flubbed the script reading. Gonna pin your comment for others. Thanks for the correction!
St. Louisans: Why do you want to take away our national park? Are you planning to move it to Los Angeles?
Why move to LA ...they chose Progress yet again in a child's blood....just so Cali could grab the Develop at a discount and gentrify the city while marching, calling the police natives and screaming Trump while wondering how to fix the problem they cause. Gotta love the real FL of the US.
I'm with that director that it should be designated a National Monument.
100%
I’m a local St. Louisan and I do love the arch. But yeah, I’m in total agreement that it should not be a national park. National monument or Memorial is much more fitting. I would love to see an actual national park here in Missouri somewhere like perhaps in the Ozarks.
I have heard so many good things about the Ozarks. Gonna have to find a video topic and travel out there one day
@@NationalParkDiaries Make sure you spend several days exploring (and preferably canoeing) the Ozark National Scenic Riverways in Missouri and the Buffalo National River in Arkansas!
It's not technically a national park, but a national forest and that's Mark Twain National Forest. Kind of the same thing.
@@jsoo67 Yeah though they don’t really bring in the crowds and recognition that National Parks do.
@@NationalParkDiaries Can do a video on the current river which was the nations first national scenic waterway in 1964
I was just there for the last 2 days from Chicago, and I totally agree-it feels like the only reason they changed it from a memorial is to increase tourism to St. Louis.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it gets reverted back in the next decade or so.
Would honestly be best, but I'm afraid that ship has sailed and we're down a slippery slope now...
One topic I think you should look into is former parks, such as Mackinac Island, Sully's Hill, and Platt National Parks.
Even more interesting is the former national monuments. Many moved designations to parks, but some aren't in the NPS at all anymore. The worst story is Fossil Cycad, which was plundered for its elegant plant fossils.
Old Kasaan, was a former Haida village that was moved and is now lost entirely.
Castle Pinckney was given to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, who failed to upkeep it.
Verendrye was removed from the list when its reason for being a monument in the first place was considered inaccurate (but may not be), then flooded under a reservoir.
Mount of the Holy Cross and Wheeler were too isolated, and are now a wilderness area and a "Geologic Area" in the forest service.
Papago Saguaro, which is now Papago Park in Phoenix was not suitable for an NM.
Shoshone Caverns and Lewis and Clark Caverns were not significant enough and were dropped.
Finally, and weirdest IMO, is Father Millet Cross NM, which was the smallest part of the NPS at 18 ft x 18 ft and is now just a part of the Fort Niagara SP in New York.
Great topic idea, noted!!
I’ve always hated people ranking national parks. I’m from rural Kansas and maybe being surrounded by wheat and corn fields makes you appreciate natural places more. I’ve never not been awestruck walking through the local tall grass prairie preserve or the few untouched woods near the rivers or streams in my area let alone the national parks I’ve been lucky enough to visit. When driving through south western Colorado my girlfriend wanted to skip mesa verde because it ranked low on the list she found. I convinced her to go and we were blown away by the natural beauty and history
That's such an interesting story you mentioned about wanting to skip Mesa Verde because it was low on a list. That's my worry! I think all these places are special, both actual "National Parks," and the other units of the System and they're all worth visiting. Rankings are so subjective also and what one person may dislike, another may love (like I love Congaree).
Also, lowkey, the Tallgrass Prairie National Preserve is actually _pretty_ high on my wishlist of NPS places to visit
I'm from Indiana and we stopped by Tall Grass Prairie on the way back from New Mexico last year. It was beautiful and one of the nicest preserves we've visited.
@@drfry I’m guessing you went to the big one in the flint hills? If so it’s absolutely beautiful especially during the spring when the wildflowers bloom. I’m lucky enough to have a few small ones in my local area that I can go walk in with my dogs regularly. Any cool natural places in Indiana I should be aware of in case I’m ever passing through?
@@NationalParkDiaries Definitely check it out if you get the chance! Especially for the next couple months as everything comes back to life and the wildflowers bloom. I’d avoid it during the winter months if possible as it’s much less impressive with everything dead haha. Luckily for me my girlfriend had been before and when I reminded her how much we loved it and that Mesa Verde would be at least 10 times cooler she agreed to take a day and we were not disappointed! We are certainly blessed to live in a country with such a diversity of natural beauty to enjoy. Thank you for bringing attention to the national parks service and our nation’s beautiful places.
PS if you ever do visit the tall grass prairie preserve you should also visit the Quivira national wildlife refuge about an hour away. It’s a big inland salt marsh and sand prairie and is one of the most unique area in the state with tons of wildlife to view. Especially during the great migrations of birds.
You honestly can't rank them, anyone who tries is just listing their personal preferences in what they like seeing. Each park was set aside to preserve a different aspect of our nations natural beauty. Any rankings are just going to show if you personally like deserts, mountains, forests or wetlands more. I've never been to a national park, just Pennsylvania state parks and Assateague national seashore, and even in my home state of PA I can't rank the parks as each offers something different. I can only say which I prefer personally out of the ones I've been to and for what reasons.
I’m glad you don’t do the ranking and talking about the “worst” parks. This is a massive country with an incredible diversity of landscapes, and our national park service should reflect that. Just because some natural areas don’t have the dynamic beauty of the mountains or deserts out west doesn’t mean they’re not worth protecting or honoring. And the worst part about Gateway Arch is that there’s plenty of beautiful lands in Missouri that would definitely be great national parks! However, I think a way to fix the national park designation would be to include nearby Cahokia Mounds in Southern Illinois into the NPS (which is an idea that I think has been thrown around for a while) and incorporating it as a unit of this park to highlight another important aspect of the history of this country.
It's certainly one of my least favorite things about National Park discourse. I just wish we could all see the beauty in the National Park System as a whole and appreciate them for what they are instead of trying to rank everything against the "premier" parks.
@@NationalParkDiaries yeah it sucks that so much national park content online is spent trashing the “worst” parks instead of praising them for what they are
@@Steveofthejungle8 Totally agreed!
Visited the arch yesterday and felt like I was in fight or flight mode the whole time. The museum feels more like an exhibit in an airport than it does a place that “holds our sacred values and beliefs” as you say towards the end. It seems to serve as nothing more than a short, 60-90 min detour than as anything nearly national park worthy.
Pretty much. I don't think, by any standard, it meets the criteria for National Park, which was why the redesignation was so disappointing
What exactly are our sacred values and beliefs?
Please tell me our sacred values and beliefs?
Not having been to the arch yet, but having been to the Statue of Liberty and to Pearl Harbor, I strongly believe that the title of National Monument would be more fitting! great video man
Agreed and thank you!!
If Gateway is a NP, then so should Mr. Rushmore and the Statue of Liberty. Pearl Harbor as a "park" would be inappropriate IMO.
If the Statue of Liberty and Mount Rushmore are not National Parks, then the Gateway Arch shouldn’t be either.
One thing I didn’t hear you mention is resource allocation. A National Park receives a lot more resources than a National Monument (or any of the other myriad of National Things do). This means LESS resources for the other National Parks. Their bucket is only so large.
I have worked in land management for the past few years some work with Forest Service and Park Service, most with a non profit. A couple years ago my coworkers and I were hiking on the land we helped manage for the non profit and discussing public lands. The topic being future National Parks and different places we've been or heard of that might get the title or we think should get it (we also discussed possible other Monuments, Forests, etc). After a while the joke became "Well the St. Louis Arch is a National Park so anything can be a Park now".
Pretty much! I'm worried politicians will actually use that to change designations that shouldn't be 🙃
As one originally from the DC area, your comments really resonated. Your discussion of the arch made me think of the handling of Rock Creek Park in DC and many other local "memorial parks," as well as the lands around designated monuments. While managed by the National Park Service, these park properties don't require nearly as much staffing as a national park. I'm a believer in following the money and my guess is the city and county's local and federal representatives saw deeper pockets available with the NP designation.
The DC National Park situation is honestly so interesting to me and I want to make a video about it
If it makes you feel better. Several park rangers at various national parks constantly bag on Gateway Arch for it’s designation.
This also includes myself. Who has worked at Mesa Verde, Great Sand Dunes, and Zion.
I mean, even the NPS testified under oath that they didn't think it should get NP status... Tells you all you need to know!
I've been to Saint Louis a few times over the years, and being able to see it is nice and all. However, I go to Forest Park while in town to get scenic beauty. I'll agree that the Arch should be a monument instead of a park.
Heard good things about Forest Park also, but didn't make it over there when I visited.
I'm a Missouri resident, and I was very confused as to why it became a National Park.
Was in St Louis this time last year, thought then that it was strange that the Arch was a National Park.Odd too is the fact that it does not contain the Eads Bridge, next to the park, one of the most historic constructions ever built, first crossing of the lower Mississippi and the first major structure made of steel. Worst of all is that we have a national park across the river from the Cahokia ruins the most important prehistoric city in Eastern US. How Cahokia can just be a small state park and a few miles away the Arch is a national park, that says a lot about our priorities.
This is the second comment I've seen mentioning the Cahokia ruins! Those types of places fascinate me and I need to check out more of them! I think at one point (don't quote me on this), there were discussions for the Park Service to acquire land on the other side of the river and incorporate it into Gateway Arch.
Great point. This would add to the appeal of the park.
Keep in mind you are talking about regional, state or municipal parks. While they are public lands, they are not federal lands. And most of them have no need to be a federal property. Some might want to be a part of NPS for cost reasons, but most do not.
Platt National Park (now Chickasaw NRA) should have never been demoted while Gateway Arch exists man. Especially having been 10 times the size and with actual natural features (it is currently 100x the size of Gateway Arch and is still very pretty!)
Chickasaw NRA is a unique little spot but has a cool history. The cold springs in the summer were the best for floating in!
Platt would actually make a great story for the channel. Gonna keep that one in the vault!
THANK YOU for perfectly summarizing my thoughts on this! Love your videos -- you have a special passion and insight that makes these educational while still engaging.
I'd love to see you do a series on the history of the founding of each NP. Obviously parks like yellowstone and grand canyon are impressive, but is the history of these places "obviously we need to protect them" or was there some ornery guy who lived on the colorado River (*ahem* first americans) who opposed it and fought against it?
Whatever you do, I love your content and can't wait for the next one!
Thanks so much, I'm so glad there are people out there to watch videos like these! I love parks and just want to help people learn about them as much as I can. I love the idea of doing different founding histories of our parks. Thanks for the suggestions and thanks for watching!
Cannot agree more. I just have the “feeling” that anything manmade is not deserving of National Park status. The Gateway Arch is a Monument, Historical Park, Memorial - at best. The Dept. of Interior needs to take a critical look at the current designations (as was done in the 1940’s) and get things right. And maybe more importantly not tag NPS designations to massive spending bills, like Covid relief.
Funnily enough, the NPS itself actually opposed this redesignation. It essentially got railroaded through because of political pressure.
I mean, I live right down the road from Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which is ALSO generally ranked as one of the worst national parks. Which makes me so upset, because not only is the park a huge example of what good habitat reclamation looks like (seriously look up Beaver Marsh and its history, it might be something you'd find interesting,) but its such an accessible park in an area that lacks public land. It makes me want to visit Congaree even more, to give some solidarity to a fellow disregarded park
I loved both Cuyahoga and Congaree!
Cuyahoga is a great park and it truly makes me upset that people don't appreciate it.
Us "worst park" lovers have to stick together. Cuyahoga Valley has been _high_ on my list of NPs to visit for the very reason you just mentioned! I LOVE places like that - they have great stories to tell just like other parks. Gotta stick up for the little guys ✊
Also, please do come to Congaree. The largest remaining expanse of old growth, bottomland, hardwood forest in the US and some of the tallest known trees of their species anywhere in the world. It's also really accessible from Columbia and you can see pretty much the entire park in a few days. Let me know if you'd like any tips!
Love the little guys!!
@@NationalParkDiaries We'll be down at the beach in SC in August this year and I really want to find time to take a daytrip to Congaree, there's few things better than an old growth forest. So if you have any trail suggestions I'd be happy to hear them!
“You get a national park, you get a national park and you get a national park!”
So accurate lol
I would love a similar analysis on Indiana Dunes, especially in light of Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore (which I think any objective observer would consider superior) still being classed as a lakeshore and located just a few hours north by car.
Great suggestion. I'll add it to the list!
I spent some time living in the greater STL metro, and as grand as the arch is, I agree strongly with the idea of dilution being the primary danger to deserving parks. Should Central Park in NYC be an NP? My biggest worry is this: if more national parks become man-made sites, how much more easily will politicians rally around reducing protections to the valuable and precious environments and scenery because "it's a frivolous expenditure for some national parks"? Great video as usual!
Yeah, my big thing here is the implications for the future. I just think it sets a worrying precedent (that started long before Gateway Arch also) for future National Parks. Thanks for watching!
A designation of "National Memorial" to me seems the most fitting for the Gateway Arch. It's perhaps similar in commemorative intent to the Statue of Liberty or Mt. Rushmore. Clearly not "natural", but it still carries strong significance to the identity of the United States as a whole
Yep. The Park Service itself argued for a change to "National Monument," just like the Statue of Liberty
As a California transplant, Pinnacles absolutely deserves to be a national park. As a St Louis native, calling the arch a National Park is a joke. The remodel was great and was long overdue, but putting it on the same footing as Yosemite is such a symptom of the commercialization you mentioned.
Such an unfortunate situation. Really cheapens the designation IMO...
One good thing about all these locations being redesignated as national parks is that it increases the value of the annual national park pass, "America the Beautiful" passes because you now can get into all of them with that pass.
Technically, you could still get into them even if they weren't redesignated. The America the Beautiful pass grants access to all NPS locations, not just National Parks.
Thank you. It does get confusing because some places title themselves as if they are part of the NPS system when they actually aren't. I think I made an error in judgement because I have traveled to a few of those places and was not able to get in with my pass.
@@NationalParkDiaries
We were there in June of 2020. The construction was insane. You couldnt park close. But my favorite thing was the tent cities under the highway.
With full on sofa sets and fire pits.
Those were the 3 reasons we didnt go to the Arch, go to the top and check out the museum or spend money.
We're only passing through though.
Great video! I've been voting on patreon for you to make this video since it showed up in the polls back in September! I totally agree that it should be classified as a National Monument, but I didn't know it only became a National Park in 2018!
Yeah, I was kind of sad it never won the vote because I've been wanting to tell the story for a long time lol! Decided now the time was right 😂 Thanks for watching, commenting, and being a patron!
Great video, I like how you explained the why and how. And as you pointed out, it being a national park was driven by the state's congressional members (just as many of the other recent national park designations have) and not by the national park service itself. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people from western states complain about this national monument or wildnerness area of BLM or national forest land not be a national park but the Arch or some other newer "eastern" park is because the National Park Service didn't designate it a national park. I'm like the National Park Service (as in the agency and its employees) aren't designating national parks, Congress is and it's driven by the local Congressional delegation. Don't blame the NPS if your favorite local place isn't a National Park when Gateway Arch is, blame your Rep or Senator.
Yep, exactly! NPS actually voiced opposition to both Gateway Arch and Pinnacles. It's sad to see the political interference in recent years really degrade the title of "National Park."
I hereby declare that names should mean something. Not all monuments are parks.
Yep, pretty simple solution really!
@@NationalParkDiaries that’s a simple idea I got from someone else who had a mini rant about the “history channel” since they started their ancient aliens nonsense lol
@@JoshDoingLinux the History Channel makes me sad now 😔
I am from STL, my name is in the beam. I LOVE the Arch, I absolutely love the upgrades made. The museum and interpretive center is important and wonderful. However, it should be a monument, not park.
That seems to be a pretty common POV among St. Louisans, and I agree! Wonderful place - I really enjoyed my visit - just wish it stayed as a Memorial or was redesignated to a Monument...
I feel like even Indiana sand dunes NP, which is most likely the least deserving of that title (excluding gateway arch) since there are sites up the lake Michigan shore similar and probably more interesting and more naturally significant, not to mention it is in an industrial setting and the park itself is split into two sections because of a steel mill or just an industrial area in general positioned in the middle of the two parts, deserves that title a thousand times more. It's not like changing the name is the only solution to having more people visit and spend money to therefore boost the local economy, right? I believe that if they had changed the name to national monument it would have still showed a general increase in people visiting the park and wouldn't have devalued the title of NP.
I agree. There were so many different ways to attract the "tourism dollars," without changing the name. Just so unnecessary and sets a dangerous precedent.
Nice video. I have enjoyed several visits to the arch and at one time, watched the sunset from inside the arch and on another occasion, watched fireworks over it on the 4th of July. I so enjoy just driving by to see it under different lighting conditions. I agree with your assessment, it should be designated a National Memorial.
It is a joke that Gateway Arch is a national park. I think this is a national park for Robots in the future world. Then a Power Transmission Tower near my house is also called a national park, isn't it?
I've been there & seen it. While impressive, it's not a national park in the sense that they're meant to be regarded. Totally agree with you.
Well explained and researched. Covered every angle and shared key differences from other examples like the other newest NP designaions!
Thanks for watching!
As a life long native of SC, I am ashamed to say I have not been to Congaree! It's super high on a day or over nighter adventure this fall tho.
Not a national park, but Francis Beidler Audubon Park (or whatever they're calling it now) is awesome. I highly recommend going for one of the night walks.
Definitely check out Congaree! So accessible from almost every area of the State. Fall and Spring are best times (for me). I've never been to the Beidler Forest, but I've got to check that out! Looks like we both have homework lol
Thank you for the great explanation. I can also see how nps itself disagrees with the redesignation. The offical nps ins account doesn't follow gateway arch account although it follows all the other national park accounts. That tells us something.
Thanks for watching!
I agree with you 100%. As an avid national park visitor (ALL NPS sites -even the obscure ones about past presidents) for the past 50 years, the change in designation puzzled me. Same for Indiana Dunes - I suspect political pressure on that one. Other recent changes such as New River Gorge and White Sands are fine. We have visited Gateway Arch again since its redesignation but hated the parking situation. We assiduously avoid big cities so are unlikely to visit again. I must say, the refurbished and updated museum is fabulous.
I've heard lots of good things about the new museum as well, but yeah, the Arch should have stuck with it's original designation. Very worthy of inclusion in the NPS overall, but not worthy of the National Park moniker.
It was only back in the summer of 2022 when I went to visit the Arch and I was excited to experience it knowing that it was a National Park. As great as the experience was going up the Arch and seeing the Mississippi River, I was ultimately disappointed with the experience of it being a National Park and I even questioned myself as to why this was a National Park. So I completely agree that it should be given the title of a National Monument. I hope it changes!
It's old designation was pretty spot on - National Memorial!
If Gateway Arch is a national park, then Mount St. Helens should be one as well
I'm living in St. Louis now, and after going to some of the larger national parks (Yellowstone, Glacier, Smoky Mountains, etc) and some of the national monuments (Devil's Tower, Mt. Rushmore, etc.) I definitely feel that the arch would fit best in the National Memorial or National Monument designation. Whenever I think of a national park, I think of wildlife, long and a number of hiking trails, and being farther from larger cities. The arch and arch grounds definitely don't fit into this.
This is definitely correct.
I'd say that it's pretty clear that Indiana Dunes is NOT a national park and should not be called so.
Places like Pinnacles and White Sands aren't as wondrous as other parks, but they at least fit in. Indiana Dunes is almost embarrassing.
Before the Gateway Arch redesignation, Indiana Dunes used to catch all the flack lol. It pales in comparison to Gateway Arch now, but remains a worrying trend of redesignating parks for the wrong reasons...
Thanks for the awesome content and great video!!!
Thanks for watching!
When thinking about St. Louis, the first things I think of are Budweiser and the Cardinals, then the Arch.
It might take a lot of research and maybe it's a little dry, but a video on the history and current day use of the land and water conservation fund could be a really neat thing to share with your audience and inform people on how the US has come to and continues to conserve so much land.
Oh, that would be very interesting given the GAOA - one bill I was pleasantly surprised to see passed under the previous administration.
You're both in luck! I've made videos on both of those already:
LWCF: ua-cam.com/video/PcQrU9kgdqs/v-deo.html
GAOA: ua-cam.com/video/Az3nq3iDPwY/v-deo.html
They're a little rough around the edges since they're some of my first ever videos (go easy lol), but I hope you find them helpful!
Ask the editor of Where St. Louis. They have to feature this arch on every cover because St. Louis doesn't have anything else that's iconic.
Agreed, revert the designation per NPS standard nomenclature
100%
I've been to 26 national parks; Congaree was lovely and Pinnacles is amazing. Hot Springs and Gateway on the other hand...
I never thought about this...thanks for explaining!
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
I have been to the arch and it is amazing and beautiful. But I agree with your assessment.The gateway arch should not be a national park. Keeping it as a memorial is best.
Yep, Memorial or Monument fit best I think
I grew up two hours away from the Arch and honestly, I'm pretty annoyed with the new designation. It doesn't fit. My bucket list includes visiting every national park, and adding this devalues the accomplishment. It's subtraction via addition.
Well said!
I'm not one of the people who had commented about it, but I've been wondering about this for a while. Thanks for reading my mind. 😂 I would also be in favor for redesignating it as a national monument. I live in Chicago, and our Pullman National Monument was recently redesignated as Pullman National Historical Park, which honestly makes more sense and doesn't diminish its significance. I can see how local politicians would consider changing Gateway Arch to a National Monument as a demotion rather than a redesignation, however.
I think it's a question a lot of people have because it's just so jarring to see when you look at lists of National Parks lol! Glad I could help! But yeah, I think it would be extremely difficult, politically, to change the name now, so unfortunately I think that ship has sailed
You're absolutely right. This should be named Gateway Arch National Monument, although I prefer the original name.
I definitely agree. Definitely a difference between Pinnacles and Gateway Arch. One is preservation of land , the other is man made built symbol.
I concur 💯, it dilutes the meaning of National Parks. And agree 💯 that it sets an unfortunate precedent of politics and economics as a driver of National Park status.
Exactly!
It's very interesting to me the different national designations. I'm from New Zealand and we either have a national park or a regional park (with the odd exception). Love learning more about these parks!
It's an interesting system, for sure! It's kind of been cobbled together over the decades to what it is now, but, overall, I think it does a great job of protecting all the different types of resources we have here in the States. Do you mind if I ask how New Zealand handles preservation for historic locations/sites? Would those be considered under a National Park designation, or handled by some other entity? I'm so fascinated by all these administrative situations lol! I feel like they help me better understand conservation in other countries.
Glad you're enjoying everything!
@@NationalParkDiaries Honestly to the best of my knowledge anything heritage wise is usually a building or set of buildings and that might be run as an open air museum or offer tours or whatnot but usually isn't administered by any national service. That being said some Maori battlefields, village sites and old mining settlements which have been abandoned may fall within an existing forest park or regional park as is fairly common. In these cases there is usually a sign from the Department of Conservation detailing what it is called but it isn't under any different designation. However a lot of sites are still owned by Maori and they have their own tribal committees which oversee these.
One fun fact you might be interested in is that a national park (the one encompassing the largest lowland forest in the north island) named Te Urewera was actually given back to the local Maori. It is no longer a national park. It is still tended to by as much Department of Conservation as the Maori owners deem fit but it is now actually its own legal entity. Which I find amazing and so neat!
@@boodashaka2841 Wow, that's really insightful - thank you! I love the story of Te Urewara and am going to have to look into that - thanks for sharing!
@@NationalParkDiaries I went and double checked on their website and the only designation is as follows:
Reserves:
Land held under the Reserves Act 1977.
A reserve is land preserved and managed for the benefit and enjoyment of the public.
Areas set apart as reserves possess a special feature or value, or are used to protect and preserve natural areas or species. For example, the reserve may have value for recreation, education, as wildlife habitat or as an interesting landscape. They may also be created to protect and preserve certain species, public access, or coastlines, islands, lakeshores and riverbanks.
Under the Reserves Act, a reserve must be classified according to its principal or primary purpose. It is then managed/preserved according to that purpose.
Reserves are administered by DOC or an administering body may be appointed, like a local authority, iwi or a voluntary organisation
@@NationalParkDiaries You're quite welcome! Happy to share a slice of Kiwi life!
Here is Seattle we have the tiniest national park which is the Klondike Rush Museum - I agree that it should be something different
Agreed, should be reverted to a monument, and make Indiana Dunes a national seashore again while we're at it.
There are 2 former National Monuments in my state whoich were reclassified as National Parks fairly recently - Black Canyon of the Gunnison and Great Sand Dunes. Both are pretty neat, but both are relatively small one trick ponies. If these deserved re-designation, then Sunset Crater National Monument in Arizona or Dinosaur National Monument, which consists of a building covering a fossil outcrop surrounded by 200000 acres of open range.
Interesting video. I honestly didn't know it had been changed to a national park. I think leaving it as a National Memorial would have been better, but they should at least change it to a National Monument. Hey, I think I recognized that shot of Canyonlands. :-D
It's a weird one for sure, it certainly sticks out like a sore thumb. But yeah, using all the footage of Gateway Arch as a National Park, I had to sprinkle in some _actual_ NP footage and the drive up the Shafer Trail fit the bill perfectly!
I live in SC too, and I love Congaree.
It's such an underrated park! I spread the Congaree gospel wherever I go lol!
I spent nearly 20 years in and around Saint Louis and was there when the name was changed and the updates were done. Most of the increase of visitors, especially the first year was locals just wanting to see what was done. I've never met anyone who went to Saint Louis to see the arch. Instead people go to the arch because they are in Saint Louis. It definitely should not be a National Park and I can honestly come up with lots of better uses for all that stainless steel then I giant eye sore that the locals attribute magical effects.
Thanks for your comment! I personally like the arch (and the park), and absolutely think it should be a unit of the National Park System, just not as a "National Park." There are WAY better designations lol!
I stopped in Saint Louis just to see the arch because I was already on a road trip and was passing through the city. I suspect a lot of the people who only visit the arch are also passing through.
dude I'm 46 years old I've lived in St Louis area my whole life and I have not once heard anybody say the arch has any type of magical effects.
@@DJDouglasWarden Really, you've never heard the "Arch Affect" on the weather report or any stupid crap like that?
@@SamSwanner imagine hating a modern wonder that will outlast you 100 times over, your like the new yorkers who hated the chrysler building and now is some nobody from the early 19th century
Thanks for making this video!
Thanks for watching it!
Thanks for informing me that the Gateway Arch received national park status. I lived in St Louis for several years and appreciated the arch and its accompanying grounds. I disagree with the arch being crowned a national park. Capitalism has transformed national park designation to a mere marketing campaign. It's sadly emblematic of everything wrong with our society: MONEY MONEY MONEY.
Good analysis, Cameron!
It's such an unfortunate situation. Thanks for watching, as always, even when we have to discuss the not-so-fun things lol
I think dilution of the meaning is a pretty weak argument. National Memorial or National Monument do make more sense in name, but adding it to the list of National Parks has helped the area. St. Louis is not a place that gets positive national attention very often and things like this matter A LOT for the people dependent on visitors. It's ok to celebrate more than just natural beauty now and then. Maybe it would have made more sense to move a bit north and establish the area around the confluence of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers as a National Park, but we work with what we have and as far as I'm concerned it's a good thing. It hasn't harmed the park service or other parks and has done a lot for the region.
I would sign a petition to change a status of Gate away Arch to National Monument.
I always forget this is a NP. Cool little place and museum tho.
So it makes a difference in how you educate yourself.
they could've at least made the ozarks a national park instead
Heard great things about that area!
Solution to your problem... just declare the Mississippi river and it's water part of the park just like Dry Tortugas National Park or other parks that are mostly water. Then you get 1000s of acres of park you still cannot use without scuba gear.
surprised you didn't mention hot springs. Probably second on the list of places that shouldn't be parks. it's got some cool history and a little bit of hiking but should probably a national historical park
Hot Springs deserves its own video someday.
I agree that this should only be a monument and not a national park. The river and what little patheric greenspace is around it isn't enough to be deemed as a national park. I think that language always matters and is itself very political. I had no idea it was designated as a national park. It reminds of when I learned that the Guiness Book of World Records can essantially just be bought titles rather than real feats of wonder.
And I just followed you on Insta on both my accounts!
Yeah, those other designations are there for a reason lol! As you said, language matters and for the National Park Service, it describes WHAT is being protected. Very frustrating.
Thanks for the follows as well!
You offer quotes against the designation, but how did it get approved?
Congress has final approval on new National Park units and/or redesignations like this, so even though the NPS itself opposed it, Congress made the final call.
You should do a video on the proposed Maine Woods National Park
Oooooh, very interesting!
I’ve hiked Cuyahoga Valley National Park which was number two on that worst National Parks list. It’s a nice, little park, but I couldn’t understand why it’s a national park. I’m not sure why Gateway Arch would be a national park either.
Love your content dude. Speaking about places that should or shouldn’t be protected could you do a video about how meteor crater slipped through the NPS fingers. I can’t think of a more deserving place to be protected but somehow it’s private owned. Infuriating!
Thank you! Also, never heard of this, but looking into it now and adding it to the list. Sounds fascinating!
would be interested in the topic about colorado national monument and it not being a national park? Kinda of like the arch memorializing something. colorado national monument doesn't memorialize anything but to protect an environment
The (re)naming of this is St. Louis politics at its finest - and that is from a St. Louisian.
I want to see all of the National Parks at some point in my life. But I have no desire to go to St Louis. And I'm not really interested in the Arch.
They should also rename Presidio National Park to Presidio National Military Park.
I like how this is a natuonal park, while the Delaware Watergap is still fighting for National Park status.
Neither should be elevated to "full" National Park status, in my opinion. I think Gateway Arch works better as a National Memorial or Monument, and Delaware Water Gap should remain as a NRA.
@@NationalParkDiaries Fair, I just find it funny that one actually protects a portion of land and resources while the other is, well a memorial. I'm also a Pennsylvanian, so I'm a bit biased on that.
@@AHungryHunky Yeah, this is part of the problem for me! Giving Gateway Arch NP status opens the door to so many other places getting their designations changed, even when the designation they have is more appropriate. It's a mess!
When I think of st Louis I think of that time I almost got robbed when I made the mistake of getting off the highway passing through to grab a soda.
I'm surprised actually you live near Congaree too. I still haven't visited it, ever
It's such a great park. I spread the Congaree gospel wherever I go. As a native Southeasterner, having a park like Congaree protect an ecosystem that used to dominate much of the South, but has disappeared through commercial logging and land clearing, is really important for the United States. We can see what we've lost and how best to protect it in the future. Congaree is amazing.
@@NationalParkDiaries I will likely visit sometime this year. Especially the summer due to summer break. I love parks in general, but never have gone to anywhere particularly famous or beautiful due to location (apart from the Everglades, but there it was just touristy developed parts). My family might eventually head west for Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon as well
@@justinh6651 I hope you have a great time! All NPs are special and I think there's something in them for everyone. Enjoy your trip(s)!
I so agree with this. National Park designation is special and needs to be protected.
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I strongly agree with your position on this issue!
The arch area was named correctly as a memorial. It's not even up to national monument status.
It shows that If I had enough political influence I could get my backyard made into a national park.
There are several smaller, more historic-type National Monuments, including the Statue of Liberty, so, personally, I think that would have been an appropriate designation (this is what the Park Service argued for as well. National Memorial worked just as well too! But yes, totally agreed on the politics front. Opens the door to anyone with money to request National Park status.
I was sure it was just the St.Louis Archway Monument before I listened to this! Im with you on this. It doesn't reflect what a National Park designation should be... But im Canadian... Soo it's probably different here 😊
Just curious, does Canada have different types of NP designations? Like National Park vs National Historic Site vs National Seashore etc?
@National Park Diaries Im not sure, but it seems to be different.. I live 2 minutes from Kouchibouguac National Park 😂 I have never taught of what kind of designation it has! I will have to get informed, thanks 😊
I hate that in order to do all 63 parks my girlfriend and I have to go to this one. It will rank at the bottom for sure.
I think it's still a nice place to visit, and you can definitely still have a good time there. I've heard the updated museum exhibit underneath is excellent. But yeah, just should not have National Park status...
You won't hear me argue this. Not again anyway. Momentarily forgot that the BF grew up in MO and had to listen to almost everything you mentioned but on the "pro" side when he & Kid added it to the To Do List (for when we visit family in Lake of the Ozarks) after I mentioned the designation had changed. I knew my stuff since we'd visited in 2015; It fit the "monument" definition - ON THE NPS PAGE!! - and given the historical context, I also argued for National Historic Park...like Harper's Ferry. He claimed I was just mad that Georgia didn't have one (grew up there) to which I said Georgia didn't deserve one until State money stopped going to support Stone Mountain. You'd think I'd insulted his mom or something when I said that. Jeez.
(I AM torn on whether to remove the carving. There is much more to the mountain than that, but unless replaced it would be an eyesore; I can't see funds being allocated or raised for that endeavor. I'd rather there be significantly more literature and signage with references to the Civil War, historical context, the relatively recent completion date (1972), and that it was originally envisioned by a Daughter of the Confederacy - all the while emphasizing that the "star" of the carving, General Lee, was adamantly against having statues erected of himself & opposed, if a little lukewarm - at first; with more conviction in his later years - to the idea of monuments dedicated to other Confederate leaders as it wasn't good for the country.)
I really hope there is not a push to give EACH state a National Park. Like you said, it would diminish the prestige of having such a location and if it proves that renaming an NPS site to a National Park increases the tourism revenue (which, come on...why else go to St. Louis unless you HAVE TO?) I can already see the glad-handing, sneaky amendments & politicking that would go on in Congress. I can already imagine the war between Xanterra and Aramark to get the concessionaire contracts (or the lobbying money lining the pockets of the Federal Lands Committee...which, come to think of it, considering the current makeup? Might be the only way to keep Utah from fighting about expanding acreage in a few of their parks). One step away from Official Sponsorship: "T-Mobile's Yellowstone Park", "Big Bend sponsored by Taco Bell." Egads
Yeah, it's a slippery slope and and a worrying sign we've already been seeing in the last few years. Gateway Arch is just the latest (and most egregious) move to devalue the "National Park" designation. Those other designations exist for a reason! Thanks, as always, for watching!
@National Park Diaries I may not always comment, but I always watch! I've said it many times in my life that one thing I'll never argue funding IN FULL is the NPS. As such, the Park System needs to be highlighted; the good, the bad - sunlight not only helps things grow but also disinfects. (FOIA, but applicable.) I love that about your channel.
This installment was quite refreshing as ofttimes we (me) can be hesitant to criticize the things we love & appreciate. But if we don't speak up, don't ask questions, we risk losing what makes it special in the first place.
And including what the Interior Dept has done wrong, or can be looked back on as misguided, at least provides a map to avoid such pitfalls again. (Sorry, recently sorting through some of my brochures and maps etc. and was reminded of how Shenandoah was created.)
@@sujimtangerines I really appreciate it! I'm so glad there are people like you out there who are interested in these videos and help support the channel. I couldn't agree more on telling ALL the stories - not just the good ones. As you said, this is how we learn and grow and build a better park system for the future!
I live in St.Louis, I love seeing the Arch from my windows, and I agree that it should be a memorial but not a National Park. There are several places in the Ozarks more deserving of being preserved as a National Park, or even nearby Cahokia Mounds, which was the site of the largest Native American community to ever exist.
So many Missourians are telling me about the Ozarks! Definitely need to make a trip out there one of these days. I think Cahokia Mounds would make an excellent NPS site as well, although I'm glad its at least under some form of protection by the State.
Great analysis, and I agree with you that Gateway Arch should be a national monument.
Thanks for watching!
Arch doesn’t move me like Arches like the cannon ball parks back east can’t compare to the Grand Canyon
So Statue of Liberty and Alcatraz all became National Parks, more likely a patriotic thing.
Honestly I kind of agree but also disagree is it where Lewis and Clark went to find the northwest passage and travel the Louisiana purchase
I agree it should be either a national monument or better memorial. Want to hear your take on the permit system for content creators filming on public lands and allowing junk fees collected by private companies like rec. gov. Talk Federal Lands Recreation and Enhancement Act. Thanks.
I've got my eye on both of these and am planning videos for both! Waiting for a little more info to drop on each of them so I can get the full story, especially rec.gov - need to see how the court cases play out. Great suggestions!
@@NationalParkDiariesThanks. Check out Park Junkie for more.
@@geogypsytraveler I've been following his stuff! Great updates.
12:10 or making a National Park out of a monument, amirite?
The real question here is why did making the arch a nation park really boost the numbers so much. Like people didn't magically forget what the arch was just because a name change right? Did they hype it up like some stuff changed in advertising?
The "National Park" label tends to drive more visitors, as opposed other designations which are still in the National Park system. A lot of it has to do with "branding" and people who have simply heard of "National Parks," but might not realize there's a whole system of parks out there with different designations.
Nice video! Btw, you have "Dune" behind you, and there's just a little bit of Timothy Chalamet in the hair, etc., here? AIR? Just sayin'!
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Hi great video explaining why it should not be a national park I totally agree it should have stay a moment ps can you please do a video of the newest national park new river gorge national park and Preserve west Virginia
Thanks for watching! And yes, I'll be headed there next month for a story 😎