Megasquirt VS Speeduino | What will you choose?
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Have you ever wondered about trying a Speeduino? In this video I will share my OWN experience with both the systems. THIS IS MY OPINION BASED OFF THE TWO UNITS I OWN. if you want me to try the newest version of Speeduino feel free to send me one ! I would gladly try a Dropbear
Check out speeduino.com/home/ for more information on Speeduino (Josh Stewart is awesome ! go support him directly)
MicroSquirt ECU with 30" Wiring Harness
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My Car Parts list
Megasquirt: amzn.to/3FX5rIg
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Intercooler: amzn.to/3xJAnJs
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Turbo: amzn.to/32Pkt4P
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Fuel Pump: amzn.to/3ruzfZ7
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MS used to be fun open project - and after all the free development it turned into a commercial enterprise for select number of a-holes. it has become so expensive to buy one that it rivals in cost to many of the professional units (like MoTec or FAST). Speeduino is still free.
Leftists hate everything they can’t afford
@@ToddDunning Only a "leftist" would think money alone makes a person superior to another with such a hypocritical generalization.
I got some harsh news for ya Toddyboi, You Are the Thing you are pretending to bash. And everyone can see it.
@@RANDOMNATION907 what the fuck does this even mean? Seems like you're forcefully ignoring the point he's making. Also seems like you know jack shit about the car mod community and the changes MS had the last decade. Stay in your zone with that political bullshit.
@@waldolemmer it stays
I haven't paid much attention to the 'squirts, since I asked a question on their development forum, and got flamed to cinders by one of the principals. Bright children do not a product make...
RusEFI is definitely worth adding into the conversation as well. Open source, tons of options, features you won't find on other affordable ECUs, multiple retailers selling products based on it, pretty good community around it. I know this video is almost 2 years old now, so figured I'd just add this on. :)
You mentioned MS wave soldering being superior to hand soldered Speeduino. I would suggest this is completely dependent upon the skill level of the person soldering. For example guided missile control boards are hand soldered by professionals and passed down a line of people who use visual magnification to check joint appearance / quality. Wave soldering isn't infallible as any imperfection / contamination can spoil your day. Dry joints etc are a regular occurrence in consumer electronics (usually wave soldered).
i must have missed that part but wave soldering is not used for surface mount devices(smd). the smd are placed on the board by a pick and place machine, befor all that the board is run through a process where a stencil is overlayed and solder paste is applied to every pad much like a silkscreen on a tshirt. the parts are then places on the paste and it holds them there untill its run through a reflow oven that melts the solder paste and wets to the board and parts. the board can then be visually inspected just like any other. its very accurate and reliable method of pcb manufacturing.
wave soldering can only be used on through hole components, if the speedduino was populated and then run through a solder wave machine (that is set up and run by a competent person) it would have pretty much perfect joints.
i doubt the claim that missile control boards are soldered by hand because i dont know why they would be using through hole devices which are much larger and susceptible to vibration damage. also nobody is hand soldering surface mount devices, the only reason you would be doing that is repair or prototyping or someone made a mistake by loading the wrong reel of components onto the machine and now you have 100 complete boards with a few wrong components.
for speeduino you can gut a factory ecu and mount it inside. This way you can solder the connections to the factory ecu header eliminating the junk screwed terminals. then you repin the harness and have a proper connector.
Big brain, thanks for this idea!
Did that with a megasquirt almost 20 years ago replacing a bosch d jetronic in a volvo p1800
i did almost the same thing with an MS1v3 years ago. i got a spare ecu and desoldered the plug from the board and made a jumper harness to the megasquirt so everything ran through the factory harness, just had to match every wire up. about a year later megasquirt came out with their breakout boards that featured factory ecu plugs for almost every make so you could make a jumper harness exactly like i did but in a neater package.
I've done the same thing with a GM ECM and an older megasquirt
This board is much bigger than any other factory ECU enclosure 😅 I printed my own enclosure for RUSEFI cause it wasn't fit for bosch box
I've converted my 67 Datsun 2000 to EFI using Microsquirt V3 and 40mm Jenvey Heritage TBs and love it. The MS has been bullet proof, very well made, easy to mount and does everything I need. The 30inch pigtail that can be purchased with it is clearly marked and makes installation much easier, even for this electrically challenged owner. Don't see any reason to use a more expensive controller for a classic, non-emission car. The engine is built, and not only have I gained HP and torque everywhere, I get better fuel economy, instant starts, and consistent AF ratios whether I'm at sea level or in the Mountains. Awesome!
Sounds like a nice setup! I really like old Datsuns like the 2000 and 1600s
@@TurbineResearch. Y.
Interesting comparison and discussion. Thanks for posting.
Several years ago I had a project to add wide spark control to an old 2 cylinder generator so I could fuel it with woodgas. I ran across Josh Stewart and Speeduino at that time.
I learned TONS of info from him. Even bought an umpopulated board at the time. But I DECIDED to do it all myself and to make it all work with only an Arduino UNO. Eventually did get the job done. But it took a long time to solve that ignition drift problem, so I can emphasis with you on that issue.
I worked at a plant that assembles SMD boards. There isn't any high precision about it. You gotta check every single board because shit gets placed wrong A LOT.
I have MS on my motorcycle. I’d like to say that so far the unit has held up to the weather pretty good. I ride in the rain. The bike sits outside 247/365. Rain sleet sun and snow.
Megasquirt started out the same, I'm running micro in my Ford V8 TFI motor with batch fire and controlling dwell. Does great.
I will have to look into this now too, thank you.
Thanks for watching
You need to understand that he is reviewing an OLD Speeduino. They are on to a completely different board. many different boards for that matter. The 0.4XX boards are better and most of them are SMD. THe new dropbear unit has a good connector also. The board you have for speeduino is just out of date. Then you can get into the boards other companies make which are just great. I have had MS1 in a 400 HP 260z 15 years ago and I like speeduino much more.
I would like to try a dropbear. They look like a solid unit
@@TurbineResearch Long delays do to this pandemic some parts unobtainable. Supporters and people in the loop get them first. For the Dropbears prices it spanks MS3X again if you get one.
@@dermharse9614 it has more input than ms3 x?
@@pr0n5tar look at speeduinos UA-cam channel
The microsquirt is older than the speeduino in this video
The microsquirt was without an internal map to save space. They do have external map sensor provisions. Also makes it universal to be able to run about any map sensor you'd like.
👍👍👍
Great info, thanks for sharing. I have several projects waiting for me. I've been laid up for a while, but the doc says I can get back to my shop as I feel able. I think I'll go with the Arduino-based unit. Sub'ed
Thanks 🙏 hope you are feeling better
Before watching this I thought they were both opensource but turns out MS3 developers make public some (almost all) of the code and allows customers to modify it for their particular MS3/Pro unit. But no selling your modifications or even giving them to other people. Also you have to compile the code with their binary GCC module, so what actually ends up flashed to the device is anyone’s guess. I always thought they were both open source since tuner studio works on both, but no :P
Yes, MS at the early stages shared their firmware sources, but if outdated, they stated it is not open source, for the hardware the same, they shared squematics for previous products but stated only for repair guide purposes. Some guys around the world have made their hardware versions of MS but they are violating the copyright/licenses according to MS.
Speeduino is "inspired" by MS but from what I have seen, hardware and firmware is completelly different, harware is evolving fast, the autor of speeduino is releasing a version completelly ready with teensy 3.6 (a lot of more power respect to arsuino mega) in an aluminum case and 2 automotive plugs. The product is growing. Very interesting.
Agree the ampseal connector is a nice piece. I have some on my msgpio. I also noticed the bummer part of having the Phoenix connectors on the speeduino. One could always solder directly to the board of course.. not sure of you'll end up saying that in the video heh I'm 3:42 in.
That's why I prefer the speedyefi ua4c boards. SMD and molex connectors. No Phoenix.
i like the microsquirt....run it on my turbo motorcycle....i use official GM 3 bar map,14point7 wideband,and control my water pump for intercooler
My Micro squirt has lived in a z31 open to elements for several years never had a single problem
subbed! thanks for the info
10years ago i tried to learn megasquirt. I built two units and had so many problems. i returned to Microtech which i was already familiar with. within a day had the microtech installed and road tuned vs 40hr building a megasquirt and 40hr diagnosing problems. Prebuilt Micro squirt looks interesting though.
Never used speeduino. I've used 2 microsquirts though. There are limits with them and the MSextra forums are not always helpful, but I enjoy the challenge. With either, my guess is can't just expect all your issues to be solved fast. I had a drivable car quick enough, however sorting out unusual sensors or niggly issues takes longer. However, each solution is really gratifying. Tunerstudio is a far more powerful tool than I'll ever get the most out of.
Hi, which is better for electronic sequential multi-point injection engines? I'm using a 3.2 vr6 BUB engine from a mk5 r32, I'm also planning to to boost it, I want to use a digital dash as well
There's also variants of the speeduino project, I personally built an stm32 one (spectre board), it's smd (so you need a hot air station to assemble it) and designed to fit in a nice case with a sealed plug, it is still DIY but certainly seems to be a step up from the calssic unit
Curious, the ignition drift problem keeps coming up.
I know a few people that gave up on MS because they had an ignition drift problem that they couldn't track down. Tuner studio has an ignition latency setting that is supposed to fix it but I don't know if it works. Now speeduino is having the same problem... huh.
Any difference in functionality? what is the difference in price? What are difference in expandability? What bennefits does it being open source bring compared to the squirt?
I can just buy a better box with propper connector for the thing if need be, really not that interested in the box......
I put a L15a7 engine out of an 09 honda fit into a 4 sest utv, will the microsquirt work on that engine?
Do both of these support 3 cyl engines? I want to use one of these on a jetski
You mentioned running Speedy on a Volvo 240 and having issues with timing. It may not have been the Speedy itself, but the crank pulley instead. The B230 crank pulleys have a rubber inside them that tends to fail after a while, and the outer comes detached from the inner causing a bunch of timing issues.
This was an LH2.4 car that has a VR sensor reading off the back of the flywheel for crank position.
I bought a micro a few hrs ago but have yet to install it.
I also printed out the mega manual back in 2001 to read through and never put the info to use. 😂
Micros are a great bit of gear for the money. I think you will enjoy it ! Let me know how it goes
When assembling, for example if I’m doing the first pack of resistors, do those resistors need to go to a specific place or do all resistors in one baggy work universally with every resistor labbled on the bag?
All the resistors in a baggy are the same value and go in the locations stated on the label. As long as you only work one bag at a time you shouldn't get them mixed up. The key phrase to keep in mind throughout is "attention to detail".
I don't know why you're comparing the mounting and connectors on a basic 3D printed cased speeduino to a microsquirt. You can get speeduinos with all metal waterproof cases.
If possible lather the whole board in grease for electronics and then put them in a insulated / waterproof case, away from the heat of the engine
💯
great content man thank you! i have a 10 cyl dodge ram v10 8.0 any suggestions for budget tuner
You’re gonna need 2 ecus
Megasquirt pro will do up to 12cyl
Rusefi Proteus, has canbus and dual ETC too
Great Video, I have a question for a subject matter expert such as yourself, I am wondering what is the best way of going about pairing a idle control valve to a air fuel ratio sensor? This engine is carbureted and the objective is to maintain a specific air fuel ratio, thank you any insight would be appreciated
From my experiences with the microsquirt, the best way is tune the VE table as precise as possible, this can ease the work for the ECO corrections, I never used idle control in my installs, but i do not think you need to worrie about, the ecu will increase/decrease fuel to mantain the desired AFR, for safery reasons, I allway allow the system to a different autority for add fuel (for example 10%) or decrease fuel (for example 3% only), this guaraty me the car can be safe if the wideband O2 sensor goes stuck in one of the extremes sides (rich or lean).
You can just use them like you would in an efi engine and set the idle air valve to open at different temperatures or based on a air fuel ratio
I have an older ms2 that was assembled a few years ago that i want to implement onto my autoX car...but every time I try to look back into it i feel its so crude
The older style MS products are crude looking especially with the big printer connectors. You can always sell it and get something more modern.
A little late but have you tried the newer speedy boards? I wonder if the ignition drift issue is fixed? how about the u4ac boards? any updates on this.
I would really like to try the drop bear but I haven’t revisited this in years
bombshell bikes sells a smaller form factor speedunio board that has provisions for the microsquirt plug.
That's really cool! I would love to try one
That's good to know , thank you.
Whats difference between microsquirt and megasquirt? Im thinking about buying and messing around with speedurino. Thanks
Microsquirt is a condensed version of megasquirt 2 .
I have a v twin Kawasaki 1000cc factory throttle body fuel injected coil on plug engine. Factory engine management is terrible always ran super ritch. This will be my first ecu install/tuning venture but I’m very proficient with electronics just green on the tuning side. I’m thinking micro squirt would be best for me what say you?
Yes microsquirt is a great option for motorcycles
What about auto transmissions needing computer shift points ... can the Speeduino handle this? I know Megasquirt can through it's cam bus ..
Not sure. I haven't messed with transmission communication on this one
Grom what I know, CAN Bus is work in progress in speeduino.
@@hiperformance71 thanks for the info .. wasnt sure if there was anything out yet or not ...
I may go with the Holly EFI Sniper since it can have the TCM added to it to control my 4L60E ..
If you had the choice to mount on a Volvo 5cyl T5, which one would you have chosen?
Microsquirt doesn’t support 5cyl due to its lack of spark outputs. You need a speeduino or other ecu that supports 5cyl like maxxecu
literally watching this video out of interest in doing this to my own redblock volvo
🙌🙌🙌 red blocks are my favorite
Why didn't you pick the surface mount version of the speeduino for the comparison? (Since you picked that as a point of comparison in the shootout here.)
It's just the two systems I have and at the time that I bought the Speeduino they didn't have that as an option.
I read the other comments and some of your responses and it became apparent this is what happened. But, in the interest of leaving the comment to feed the algorithm, I just left it. Thanks for the interesting video!
@@super_slo I look forward to trying the new dropbear but that will be down the road a bit.
So you've used microsquirt on that BMW project? Isn't it made for motorcycles and stuff like that, or am I wrong? Thinking of converting 5cyl Audi to EFI on a budget so not sure which one should I go for
You need an ECU with at least 5 ignition outputs to run a 5cyl. So in that case both of these options will not work unfortunately. However the newer Speeduino dropbear or an ms3 would work.
@@TurbineResearch Damn MS3 seems to be way too expensive, I'll look into dropbear though, thanks!
I think you can run batch fuel and ignition to run a 5pot. Meaning you don’t need 5 discrete channels
go with dropbear, cheaper to implement and still developing - and can run 5cyl sequential, MS is dead - turned commercial and priced itself out of reach
another possibility is VEMS (offshoot of MS after some developers got pissed off about MS going commercial, way better than MS but getting just as expensive)
@@frostyab7579 How about rusefi?
2:08 petg would probably work just fine for most climates, otherwise ASA would likely be plenty.
How do you know that the Speeduino was hand soldered and not run through a solder wave? Did Mr Stewart go through that?
I bought it from a person that hand built it
@@TurbineResearch got it.
Can you run 6 or 8 cylinder engines with these
Yes
can you install the microsquirt in 3 cylinders engine?
Microsquirt doesn't support odd numbers of cylinders unless it's 1cyl
@@TurbineResearch Thanks
can they manage dual carb engines?
Yes you would just use it for ignition and data logging
wandering timing would suggest to me a faulty MAP sensor on the Speeduino. I have a MS2 and I took the MAP off the board to a GM 3 BAR sensor off a supercharged Buick 3.8. You want shitty customer service? Try FreeEMS . That guy expect you to be a coder instead of a hardware person. Gonna give Speeduino a shot. The 256MEGA boards cant run this? 4cyl NA 5500 redline. single coil.
I say if you like to tinker and mess with stuff, buy the ms3 builder kit! New mega squirt is nothing like 2001 ms1 stuff.
Absolutely!
The downside of megasquirt is there is too much information and conflicting as well. Speeduino has a bit of a limited (in a good way) information. If the engine it forced induction never of these would be recommended by me. tuning on the free version is almost impossible, I have the full version (it was a lot more than $40)
They are two different species as one is like the mk4..why one is the new boy ...you needed a 1st gen Microsquirt in away..
Just comparing what I own
I'm a complete noob. Is microsquirt the same as a ms2?
Yes microsquirt is a condensed ms2
@@TurbineResearch thank you for your fast response
Where to buy megasquirt?
www.efisource.com/wp/
@@TurbineResearch thank you for fast reply, which ecu should i buy for punto gt 1.4 petrol turbo? Im using lancia delta injectors+throttle body and sensors
You seem to be highly biased to the microsquirt, some of the points you showed as advantages on microsquirt it's just because you're using an old board...
It's what I had not necessarily the best of Anything in particular. I have never had an issue with a Microsquirt and I have installed and tuned 7 of them. I have almost had nothing but problems with Speeduino. I understand they are different and want to make that clear. I also stated that the founder of Speeduino Josh Stewart is amazing at what he does and was very willing to help me . Speeduino is a really cool project and I would love to try a new modern version. I tried to be clear that this is "just based on my experience"
I just want to get arount fords inti theft BS in a 4.6 swap, plenty of computers and wiring harnesses but good luck finding a chiped key to go with it.
So a little over 30years ago I was involved in the GM ECM hacking deal... I never really liked it, I could never really get things tuned like I wanted, even using existing code for that application.
About 15-20 years ago, maybe more I ditched my GM ecms and got invested in MS. Honestly I liked it, I was able to get a lot of the tuning that I never was able to get right with the GM stuff working.
Now I have a new gm project (but old school, it has a distributor and throttle body injection), it seems like the MS stuff has gone commercial, $$$, and doesn't seem as reliable as an old MS 2 PCB3 setup was, and the old stuff is so confused and so much contradictory information... Do I go MS (and which version) or Speeduino (maybe dropbear?) or something else? (FWIW, I have an unused MS 2 and a Microsquirt sitting around but, well, if something else will work better I'm not afraid of getting it). Maybe something else to look at?
Ecumaster
Great ECU
Print the case out of Polycarbonate Carbon Fiber.....case problem solved.
I consider installing a Speeduino. I hate Megasquirt, it is capable but even the Microsquirt is bloated with functions you don't need and they are desperately trying to convince you that you need it and it's a good deal whereas even the MSIII is a cheap board that costs next to nothing to produce and whatever research and development they invested into has paid them off over the years and turned into a highly profitable fairytale. All they talk about in the forums is about how illegal it is to use unlicensed clones and they think they do you a favor to answer your question if you are in trouble and you're whinning, like they treat you as something inferior, they sure are right about piracy but whoever nags so much seems like they don't do it for fun and profit but solely for the money.
If Sleeduino wont do it, better
pay some extra hundred bucks to get a standalone ECU from a reputable tuning company that has everything sorted and a perfectly working product, than pay these guys for a propertiary junk that little we know about how it's gonna end up like regarding the product and their aftermarket support.
So you picked the oldest version of speeduino out there and compared it to the latest MS3 lol you should do another video covering ms1 and ms2 boards and the state of how they have to be wired and modded to work the same as a speeduino 0.4.4 or some of the more custom smc boards people have done.
Or buy a speeduino dropbear and do a comparison
It's not the latest version of ms3. It's a Microsquirt which is a condensed ms2. I really would love to try a Dropbear ! I just did this comparison because it's two very cheap ecus that I have a lot of experience with. It's more price based
The microsquirt is years older than the speeduino showed in the video.
Speeduinos fundamental code is flawed. It will not hold fixed timing when revving. The timing goes everywhere on rev limiters. Run like the wind away from speedy. Pay for a mega they are rock solid proper ecu made to be sold. Not like a speeduino which people are making money off selling boards with crappy code loaded up on them. RUN FROM SPEEDY
Your header says Megasquirt, but you are covering the Microsquirt. Microsquirt has a waste fuel pulse. How do you mitigate 50% fuel waste? Unless you only use 2 injectors on a four cylinder motor. So peak performance is unavailable.
Microsquirt is a condensed megasquirt 2. It's just a model of the megasquirt lineup.
A waste fuel pulse? There's no such thing. There's no fuel wasted as you seem to suggest.
The MicroSquirts work incredibly well for those controlling a small engine, or a larger engine on a budget even.
@@DIYAutoTune I have been very pleased with all the Megasquirt products I promote on my channel. The more I learn about the Microsquirt the more I find hidden value in it's features. Thanks for having a great support team that have helped me over the years!