Haha. 1/4 of the 21st century is gone already so best get used to it. I still think the 80s were 20 years ago. Nope 44 years since 1980! I feel so old.
In the early 70's as a newly trained in-port diesel watch on an old sub tender, I was night-ordered to shift clean fuel oil tanks on the mid-watch. Quickly discovered that another watch had transferred to the tank without the center cone in purifier, and the tank had a lot of water. The online generator shut down. Luckily, the tank that I switched from had plenty fuel in it for me to switch back, and an experienced engineman helped me purge the fuel on another generator and get it on line while I properly assembled the purifier and lined it up the transfer from another tank. Tied up in port on shore power, it caused no real emergency for us. Taught me to check my turn-overs carefully - I should have seen the center cone on the work bench and investigated more.
A very long time ago, I recall coming on watch at midnight and as I'm doing my rounds, I notice that the main engine would occasionally slow down and then pick up again; and it was getting worse. I soon found water in the heavy fuel oil service tank supplying fuel to the main engine, once that was drained off, the main engine ran much better. Funny that. I forget the root cause now, but I think that it was a leaking steam coil in the HFO service tank.
@@steamman9193 what if you are a kind of boat that always operates in restricted waters? like on a river... I mean, I guess you could avoid doing it when under way... but I can see any kind of harbor support vessel having trouble with that
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 if you are on a boat exclusively in restricted waters you probably tie up often so it then. Changing tanks was just a major factor on a Staten Island ferry recently
I have no links but I saw a news report saying the fuel on the Dali was tested and found not to be bad. Whether that report was legitimate, or the test was, or they tested for everything that could be related to the fuel, (shrug). Just saying someone reported it.
You can almost always tell who the smartest person in the room is by them telling you they don't know because they don't have all the facts available to them... TY
I have often felt that an engineer will answer a request by saying what they know is possible and what they need to research but their manager will simply give the desired answer and let the engineers sweat out a solution later.
For people who don't know, this guy is a great representation of how somebody who actually knows something will talk about things. Here's what we know, here's what we can speculate, here's what we don't know and drawing very clear lines between them. He's here to provide an educated perspective, not quotes to use for clickbait headlines.
Licensed engineer turned port state control here. I do appreciate you making it abundantly clear that without power, you are without propulsion. Those electronically timed engines sometimes use a fuel rail, meaning there may be a quantity of fuel ready to go if engine autmoation is battery powered and able to open the solenoids. But the point about blowers is extremely valid. Plus the prop may still be windmilling with that much speed, making it more difficult to start in astern direction. I would not be surprised if the smoke we are seeing is just partially burnt fuel getting shot out the stack by the turbos as the engine spools down. This is absolute speculation and I agree there may be other causes for the smoke. I am also glad to see your commentary on the exhaust smoke. I was getting raked over the coals on reddit for a bit for saying that this exhaust was NOT just the engine going astern. At first I thought it was an exhaust fire or something, because it should not be that thick and black for that duration of time. After watching it a few more times and seeing the smoke come to a sudden stop it is clearly not a fire, but it was that abnormal to me and something I am glad to see now getting attention. I hesitate to say that they were doing any fuel changeover or tank swapping while leaving port. I do think a more innocent explanation is at hand somewhere. I was on one ship departing Hawaii big island, the generator overspeed sensor had a spring just suddenly shear, all the load went to the other generator and caused it to trip, and we browned out. That first generator would not come online again because even though it was stopped, automation thought it was overspeeding. Crazy stuff happens. The more surprising part to me is that the EDG on the Dali did not seem to at any point ever take the load. That is something ships are required to test regularly, and should happen within a max of 45 seconds. If it is 46 seconds, flag and class should be issuing deficiencies to get this rectified. If it takes a minute then the ship should be no-sailed. There are clearly multiple issues at play here. Whatever tripped the main gens, and whatever stopped the EDG from taking the load (EDGs notably have a separate fuel tank from the main gens so bad fuel or inappropriate fuel swapping can't explain everything).
I’m at sea now so not getting the full spectrum of information but how people know so confidently what they don’t know is alarming I have little faith in a real incident report being generated because the people who generate it probably have absolutely no experience on these types of ships and engines. It’s just like a EMD expert it’s absolutely nothing like an EMD
@@Bryan-Hensley One person reported this and they weren't directly involved with the ship. So far no one else working at the port has come forward to verify this.
Shame he knows nothing about making an interesting video. I'm not going to sit here and say every possible thing. Although I know nothing specific, it's some how better when I speculate every possibility.
@@iain4295 re: " Shame he knows nothing about making an interesting video." How to say "Entertain me, I am a child" w/o saying "Entertain me, I am a child". I love his no-nonsense videos, straight to the point, and everything makes sense, is rational, and it shows he knows his stuff.
I was Assistant Engineer on a destroyer in Vietnam. It was not diesel powered, but we did have many electric pumps and backups; nonetheless, you hit the nail on the head. No electricity, no power You have to wonder when the lights went out, what caused it. Possibly dirty fuel; possibly a dead short somewhere. None of this can be fixed or worked around in a very short time. It all takes time to line up and start and they didn't have any time. Thanks for your information. Please keep the video's coming. I am always fascinated by ships and the engineering it takes to make them run.
Thanks, Chief! I have seen local Baltimore news reports that Dali was having electrical problems while docked in Baltimore. A local dock worker was interviewed and claimed that they were having to supply shore power (I think that's what she said) because Dali was not able to supply power to the refrigerator containers on board without blowing on-board circuit breakers. If accurate, that suggests a problem, or problems, with the on-board generators that may not have been completely corrected prior to departure. Your explanation that this type of large diesel engine will not function without electrical power for various pumps now makes this part of the story make some sense. Question: Do the same generators (or should we say "same switchboard"?) that power the lube and fuel pumps for the main engine ALSO power the on-board refrigerator units, or is there a separate system for the containers? Thanks again for sharing your expert knowledge!
The main switchboard powers everything including the refrigerated container outlets, and those outlets are a constant battle keeping the working they get abused by the longshoremen dropping things on them they they leak and get water inside
If you don't start the engine in the first 2 or 3 times, the compressed air reservoirs are getting low and with no compressors working, you don't have air to start Doris. All main engines in the British merchant navy were called Doris.
Under SOLAS, for a single reversible engine, there must be sufficient air capacity in the air receivers to start the engine 12 times. BTW I have never called an main engine ‘Doris’ in my puff whether it was a Doxford, MAN or Sulzer #just_saying!
I like the M.E.B.A. tee shirt. Was a member for my working life. The appeal at the end to disregard nonsense on social media will fall on a lot of deaf ears. We're currently hoping that the ship of state doesn't hit a preverbal bridge of disaster because a significant percentage of the electorate doesn't understand and worse, will gravitate toward dangerous nonsense because they just don't understand how complicated that system is and how it works. My two cents is on bad fuel, but like you say, lets wait for the accident report to learn the actual cause.
I think you mention a good point there, the average social media viewer doesn’t have the knowledge base of what goes on in the engines of big ships. They don’t understand the complexities. This includes me, so I’m just trying to watch what the experts say. 🤗🥰
Thanks. The same type of thing happened to the Mark W Barker off Detroit last summer. She lost power and went aground off Belle Isle. I don’t follow oceans shipping, but I do follow the lakers. I like right on the St Clair River and a lot of my family used to sail. Mishaps happen all the time. Groundings, fires, striking docks, it’s not a conspiracy.
I thank Sal for sending me your and Makoi way... The voices of reason in a mixed up world! Safe waves, Good Sir and I look forward to your next post :-)
Sal recommended you. I very much appreciate you sticking to the known facts. In the late 70s and early 80s I was on active duty in the Coast Guard at MSO Paducah. I was the investigating officer. I do not have even 1/100 of your experience. It will be interesting to see what started the chain of events that (proximate cause) that lead to the root cause. The engineering spaces aboard ships like the Dali are so complex. Filling the facts between the main engine shutting down and what caused it is going to involve a lot of analysis of the interrelated systems. Finding which cause effect events that are in the proximate cause chain to the root cause and those that are not will drive the investigators crazy.
Hopefully this event will cause a few more people to understand just how little regard most "legit" media outlets and nearly ALL social media commenters have for getting things *_RIGHT._* All they _really_ care about is getting their spew *_seen._*
Aloha Chief! I can tell you are a very Trained C/E! SUNY & MEBA Trained, American owned & Flagged Jones Act vessels! I am Retired Navy man, first ship was the USS Ranger (CV-61) 8-1200 # boilers, 4 engine rooms, and 4 shafts, pushing about 300,000 HP. 20 years with SIU. So, I have been sailing for a few days...Lol. I Loved when you called out the Sabbatoge/hackers, that was good! I wish they would build new Steamers, They could make more efficient ones IF they wanted to! They were very low maintenance, compared to the big diesels....Never had to pull a piston on a Steamer! Lol...
Accuracy and attention to detail much appreciated. I will believe what I believe when the Full facts are presented. We have enough Chaos in this country thanks to MSM and Social Media Journalism. Happy Sailing!
@@steamman9193appreciate all that you can, and take the time to, do from mid Pacific. I’m with you that dirty fuel doesn’t explain all the failures. Something was obviously very wrong on the electrical side, and likely involved several cascading/overlapping events. This based on your descriptions of the systems and safeguards in place coupled with my experiences in avionics, software, and telecommunications. I could be wrong, and would only bet a luke warm coffee. I will be very interested in finding out what actually happened (although I’m sure there’s a ton of CYA and politics involved right now, more than engineering. More heat than light). Thanks again for all you’ve shared.
I was talking about this briefly to a friend, And he immediately went full-tilt into a grand conspiracy, It was kind of crazy...... Essentially, he claimed cyber-attack AND a backup plan of demo charges to bring the bridge down..... Lol
I just started watching your videos the other night and feel like I don't have to worry about verifying your resume as from the first video, I knew you had some good knowledge to back you with your breakdown of different shipboard systems. When I had sticking points, I had different avenues opened based upon certain references you made. You are doing way better than most all I am seeing out there so please keep it up.
Yep either something broke or someone made a big mistake. In any case I'm sure folks in the engine room were desperately trying to pull a rabbit out of that hat and the had turned up empty.
I'm a retired navy engineer. Yes, our engines are way smaller then yours and way faster spinning and the redundancy is way higher since military vessels are supposed to be designed to still be operatable after taking some hits that destroyed this or that. Yet if I recall one of the main engine on a bigger auxillary vessel and how it runs and how it get to run I'm fully with you. Hollywood corrupted lots of journalists' and "self-made-experts'" way of reconcidering reality. Most of those people have no clue at all might have going on in the engine's compartment on the Dali in the some 5 minutes before the crash. I'm pretty sure, you're the one, narrowing it the most towards what happened really here. Now I subscribed and hit the bell.
@@Bryan-Hensley who is "they"? The official commission didn't tell anything yet about any cause. Trustable sources like this channel or "what's up with shipping" or so do admit to be in the room of speculation. If "they" claim to know, than who are "they"? The same "they" who tell the earth being flat? Never say "they" if you want to be trusted to tell facts but conspiracy theories. There is no room for "they" in facts.
Great commentary. The fact that the vessel made it up the bay without incident and had an uneventful port stay is to be noted. Low emission fuel is required in port which comes from the MGO service tank. You would expect them to stay on this fuel supply leaving the dock and in confined waters and not changeover until well after passing under the Bay Bridges when the kick up the speed on the run down the Chesapeake Bay. The engineers know what happened as does the vessel superintendent. Getting the truth from them is another matter.
Another clue that the EDG didn't start was the second blackout. If the EDG had started and a main generator came back, the EDG would enter cool down. On a subsequent power loss, transfer back to the EDG was fast. I think it needs to be a big part of the investigation on why backup power didn't work.
initially someone commented they had been having problems with the power for refer containers and had a bunch of work tried while tied up in port..... so maybe excessive load?
Okay so the part I'm not getting is that there was reports that the ship experienced numerous power failures while loading was going on. IF those reports are correct why was the ship told to leave the dock once the loading was done instead of being moved to another place for inspection and repair if needed? Also, if the ship's power generation system was compromised why didn't the captain or chief engineer order all of the generators to be running at least while transitioning through the harbor into open waters? I'm not understanding why apparent risks were taken if the failure reports are true.
@@Marine_Navigation_Know-How Yeah, I follow. Would like the ship engineers to tell us how many watts are needed to run the fuel and lube pumps. A Tesla powerwall can provide 13.5KW. Put a few of them in the engine room.
@@Marine_Navigation_Know-How Okay that sounds plausible but in that case why not have one or two of them on immediate standby or idling? Especially if there are legitimate concerns due to the recent failures. See it seems to me if we are to believe the reports of several failures at the dock then there are serious questions as to why the ship was moving under its own power without extra safety margins until it was established that the ship was fully sea worthy again. And also here is another problem that is only adding fuel to my questions. Last week it was revealed that the NTSB entered into a mode of blackout of information regarding this incident. I am not a conspiracy theorist in this incident, the reports of "hacking" sounded like hysteria and jumping the gun. I knew that because of watching Chief Engineer MAKOi in years past where he explained ship equipment and operations. However the action by the NTSB around what is a major incident is in extremely poor judgment. It is almost as if they provoking people to be suspicious.
I really appreciate you pointing out what is known, and importantly what is pure speculation. You mention the Dali had electronic injection. It seems like this would have zero chance of injecting fuel without electricity.
I am a retired licensed MM chief engineer. All I could do is make some educated guesses myself about what happened, but without being in the engine room of the ship at the time there's no way I could be sure either. Yes, I think I could rule out it being a computer hack from someone on shore. I would say that there was an electrical failure that kicked things off. What caused that, I don't know. It could have been from any number of causes. Did they have multiple generators up and running in parallel? Was there a problem in the breaker panels? Did someone throw the wrong switch in the ECR? All kinds of possibilities. I would say that there will eventually be some blow back to all the engine room crews in the future and probably some requirements for additional CG training. Glad I went down the gangway for the last time and am in the retirement mode.
Yeah man definitely new rules and since you retired they have already added a ton of new rules. The fuel changes and emissions reporting takes up an incredible amount of time
Watching your video its great to hear someone saying "slow down there's allot at play and we don't know anything". Also i can't help but feel awful for the pilot and Capt. And crew. This has to devastate them.
Thanks for the Engineer's perspective based on fact. What do you know happened, rather than, what you speculate may have happened. Love the comment about the Holywood movie conspiracists!
Thanks for the input Chief it showed great level of profissionalism by not speculate the cause before the report is out, as a marine engineer my self I think is fuel related problem like contamination or something that compromised the Generator downstairs, one went down the other tried to start it went down as well and the rest is history. 💪💪💪
But he speculated, especially when he said "in my experience it's stuck fuel pumps". Even if you're just explaining system operation, if you're doing it in the context of a mishap, it's getting into speculation. If you're looking to avoid speculation, then don't be making videos or doing interviews with media. By the way, investigators speculate. They just call it hypothesis testing as part of the scientific method. They just have more data.
Great job, Chief! Many thanks - this is what we ex-Masters and ex-DPAs needed (the story from a Chief Engineer)! Safe sailing - keep the Dali comments coming.
I worked on ships doing insulation for many things in 35 years had to work with some great chiefs had to learn when to work and what to work on and why
Hi, excellent commentary. I have a quibble (NOT a criticism), about root cause. I’m a trained root cause facilitator who has lead many incident investigations at a large chemical facility. Again, this is a quibble, but the root cause won’t be the power failure. The “root cause” will likely be one of three things, mechanical, electrical or human failure. Example; the Challenger disaster rc was a combination of factors leading to the Morton Thiokol O-ring to fail, such as NASA pressure to launch and the freezing temps that lead to the failure. As you properly stated, we won’t know anything until the report comes out. I’m trying my best to be brief, but could go on & on. I hope you have a safe voyage and thank you for sharing your expertise so we cal all learn.
4/8/24..hey Steam man! Loved your very honest straight-up talk 2day re: Dali-FSK bridge..trying to analyze what happened. I am not diesel (automotive/truck/hvy equip/farm) engine savvy so a giant 2cycle Marine/ocean going ships engine functioning is over my head...but hey, this engine runs on fuel...if No Fuel then No run ! Something supplying fuel stopped supplying... hope you can read that 'black box' report & tell all we YT viewers, in your 'straight talk' manner...what happened?...& why? Thx, stay safe & carry on!💪💥🙂
@@TheFunkybertBecause there are a lot of ships and the average age is decades and stuff breaks but the news only reports things it thinks will get attention like a non newsworthy thing almost like the newsworthy thing that got a lot of attention last week. It's like the media is set up to turn people into conspiracy theorists rather than inform them.
Thanks Chief for the common sense analysis. Having worked on large marine diesels years ago (in 1980s not as big as those) Fairbanks Morse 12 cylinder 38 1/8 TD, and EMD generators while in the Coast Guard, I said from the beginning this was more than likely a fuel issue (bad fuel, to much fuel, opening/closing the wrong valve, etc.) that started this cascade of events and I would not have wanted to be in the engine room that day. These guys were scrambling to try to pull off a miracle. Like you I wish these arm chair quarterbacks would shut their pie holes and wait for more information.
Thanks for the video Chief. I had a 3rd steam/diesel unlimited tonnage license back until 1992. I sailed on both steam and diesel ships and I agree with your statements.
As a former Chief Engineer and a retired senior surveyor and Lead ISM and ISPS auditor with LRS, your comments are spot on. We won't know what happened until the report is made available. There is a lot of guessing as to what actually happened. Thank you for your incite.
@@steamman9193The MAN B&W S90ME-C8-TII (not that different from what's installed on the Dali) Uses an electronically controlled hydraulic pressure booster per cylinder to produce fuel injection pressure. The injectors are also electronically controlled. Lubricating oil is pressurised by 2 to 4 mechanically or electrically driven hydraulic pumps to power the fuel pressure boosters. Source: MAN B&W S90ME-C8-TII pdf from MAN Diesel and Turbo, document number 198 76 10-7.1
@@dougaltolan3017 I’m referring to generator fuel pumps sticking and I don’t know the engine types for the generator. But for the main there are positive displacement supply pumps that supply fuel from the service tank and if they aren’t on they should be acting like a plug keeping fuel from getting from the service tank to the engine pumps
I saw someone report (I think it was What's Going On With Shipping, or Jeffostroff) that the ship was having the same electrical issues while in port at the dock. If that is indeed the case, then like they mentioned in their video, the possibilities are endless. You think you have it fixed, happens again, so we try this. Seems to have worked, but happens again, etc. Now they are leaving to hit the open waters and aren't positive if they have the problem fixed, because they may have never figured out the actual problem. It could easily be one if those issues that fixes itself for a short time, making you think whatever you did fixed it, then just kind of hoping the last thing you did what the right thing, instead of knowing. Most of us have had a car like that, especially those of us that have more than a few years on Earth. Anyone who's been out in open water knows that going out with an intermittent propulsion problem is a huge gamble. Not only could you be stranded and drifting, if bad weather finds you, your problems just keep compounding. Lives, money, and the whole vessel.
@@TheFunkybertMore like people will still be doing wild speculating and the report will go unnoticed by 99% of them. I bet Sal will cover it in detail though.
From a retired Navy Master Chief🫡 Following your podcast 👍 You are always going to have people who really don’t know what goes on a merchant vessel! Navy Ships are so much different we have back up on back up but merchant shipping vessels are not always strictly regulated as they should be! Keep up your best work and keep on posting!
Excellent synopsis. I had a ssdg with stuck fuel pumps on a ship in Ros) . It would not shut down. (.It kept running and rotating at a reduced RPM. we starved it by covering the turbo air suction with a plastic bag. The black smoke was so bad that the fire dept showed up without being called. they just showed up as they were 2 blocks away in downtown SF. I guess someone called the fire dept.
Thank you very much for your video. Listening to your analysis made me realize none of us are playing from the same sheet of music. I have not seen the same videos you have. I would love to see the printout of the alarms to match it to the videos. In the late 1990s, we worked with ABB (Automation, Power Management System, Electrical Equipment), and MAN-B&W (Main Engines) to make it possible to connect the ship to the makers for remote diagnosis and remote upgrades. Technically the ship and shore could be linked. Practically, the links were never made. The need for firewalls and the transmission of data via satellite or cellular networks made it impossible. I retired in 2010 and I can't speak to what has been since. As an "old timer," I question running ships with 21-man crews. I question the use of AI and the use of unmanned vessels. Imagine if the MV Dali left the dock with nobody on board.
Automation technology is coming. Shipping companies are going to get rid of the cost of crew, no matter how much infrastructure or law they have to change to do it. You know how they are about people.
Hi I did not realize that big ship engine has to have support engines to keep then running. I'am a retired Detroit Desiel mechanic. (2 stroke engines no fuel & air no run that simple)
This video clarifies matters as to why the ship, once power had been lost, could not avoid the bridge. Once main propulsion had shut down and could not be effectively restarted, that much inertia and loss of steerage way was going to make the ship just continue on whatever line it was traveling- which, of course, ended,when it struck the Key Bridge.
Wrong! You did NOT ACCOUNT for that CLEARLY radical sharp TURN to STARBOARD seconds prior to the SIDE of the bow sideswiping the pillars. This was NOT a HEAD ON STRIKE!
@@samuelcollins1331Um... The ship was veering to starboard (right) out of the channel and aimed right at the bridge support, but in the last few seconds somehow turned to port (left), making it not a head-on collision.
How about something too too simple, Chief, forgetting to change over generator day tanks at standby? At the dock and with crew changing watches to go ashore, the generator day tanks are not changed over at stby. Improbable yes, but with changes in personnel, (like a new 2nd A/E and/or first) at the dock and others going ashore for a couple hours, the possibility of some common procedure neglected has to be taken into account. Correcting this could have cause a number of false starts hence the smoke. Not enough smoke for Main Engine start failure for me but I spent 32 years sailing steam boats. I did sail a Sea Land D-9 in the 80's and APL's President Adams mid 90's. Simple human error should be eliminated before looking to any mechanical failure if a solution is not obvious. Pure unadulterated speculation but I wanted to put it out there. Fair winds and following seas. C/E '79 Calhoon Meba Graduate
One idea that I thought of was that some one had serviced the fuel strainers/filters in the fuel oil supply system in port, but somehow did that wrong leaving one strainer full of air. The in-service strainer shows a high differential pressure as they get into the channel, they go to change over to the spare, but it's full of air instead of fuel and crashes the generators. This is pure speculation with no evidence. One ship I worked on, we cracked a main engine cylinder liner, the first thing we knew about it was the TV went off mid pacific at about 8 pm as the first to fail device in a ship wide blackout. The jacket cooling systems between the main engine and generators were cross connected using the same water. Combustion gases from the cracked main engine liner got trapped in the running generator causing it to overheat and trip off. "Got a problem with the TV shutting off, go look at your main engine.". Funny, but true on that occasion.
@@lindsaydempsey5683 Not bleeding off the air is even better than mine. So many points of failure when people are involved. A mindless routine is sometimes the best.
Power out - bow thrusters if equipped out looks like locomotive starting - Big Gens started - This crew had so little time - aside from things that have to happen automatically, poor crew had very little time to define and solve the problems.
He did a video yesterday on his bow thrusters. 35,000 HP electric motor, takes 3 main generators running. Probably the Dali was similar, but maybe not?
@@k53847Does a bow thruster even do anything at a forward speed of 8 knots? Maybe reduce drag a bit by interfering with flow sticking to the hull... But the turning force would be tiny compared to the dynamic forces from the passing water.
I understand hacking better than I do large diesel engines. I know industrial systems are hacked and many incidents are regularly reported by security experts on Steve Gibson’s security now podcast. He reported, for example, that the Royal Navy runs a version of Windows the call Windows for Warships. I don’t remember what it controls, but isn’t a secure choice of operating system. But I have no idea if commercial ship systems are vulnerable. So I’m assuming internal system failure until shown to be external interference. Really helpful post to clearly define just how little we know. The lights went out, the smoke came out, the Dali hit the bridge and someone who knows how the ship’s systems work doesn’t pretend to know what happened. That’s rare and special.
So... Every mechanical device will fail & even some with redundant back-up capabilities. Gonna happen sometime! Inevitable... Failures happen! Real problem is failure of harbor, city & Feds to protect vital infrastructure! No excuse & not a surprise with larger & heavier ships moving freight! And it WILL happen again unless this country gets serious & smarter about fiscal choices! If you can't afford to fix your brakes, replace bald tires or even check & change the oil... You can't afford to drive... Egregious!!
@@Steve-Richter If you run a backup generator for normal routine things, it is no longer a backup generator. If you pay attention to the engineers, they say that there should have been more than one generator running just for normal operations, and a backup should not have been needed. Stop looking for simple fixes, and wait for the reports to come out.
So if the running lights are powered from the emergency bus and they came back on with the deck lights, that would mean:1-the emergency switchboard isolated from the normal supply and the diesel started and powered the emergency load, or 2-the emergency switchboard did not separate from the main switchboard and a main generator was started and supplied power to all loads. Either way the generator providing power after the initial power loss stopped and didn’t come back on.
Great report. So, no electricity no propulsion. But also, no electricity no rudder? It seem like with the speed and momentum they had if they had rudder they could have stayed in the channel.
Well I’d say that’s not exactly accurate we aren’t sure if the emergency generator came on. It may have we just can’t see that. It SHOULD have and if it didn’t that’s an indicator of a lot more going on with that ship
wow, what informative videos, thanks for putting these out. who thought marine diesel engines and the people & process that keep them running could be so interesting :) Question, in an earlier vid you described the redundant systems providing rudder control, with further redundancy in the electrical systems needed to drive them. However, you also mentioned the emergency generator isn't normally kept running and takes time (20-30?) secs to kick in. Would a ships crew consider putting it on standby when navigating through a critical waterway, like under a bridge? is that even possible & would it help if the primary electrical system failed?
So in restricted waters you’re supposed to have an extra main generator online that’s your first set of redundancy. I’m curious to know if Dali was operating like That. Emergency generator is kept in peak condition by not running it normally and wearing it out so it’s truly ready for an actual emergency. It’s actually regulated so that it can’t be run with the main generators for that reason. It’s supposed to be tested frequently at least before every port arrival and departure there are other alternative schedules but weekly at least
“I got my license in 2001 so that’s coming up to 23 years” .. my brain freaked out at that 😂 I’ll always feel like it JUST turned 2000!
Haha. 1/4 of the 21st century is gone already so best get used to it. I still think the 80s were 20 years ago. Nope 44 years since 1980! I feel so old.
As the kids say now “back in the 1900s”
@@steamman9193 ugh 🤣
Graduated the year before… where has the time gone? Lead investigator on this graduated the spring before I showed up in Castine.
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l Hard to believe 1976 is as close to 2000 as 2024!
In the early 70's as a newly trained in-port diesel watch on an old sub tender, I was night-ordered to shift clean fuel oil tanks on the mid-watch. Quickly discovered that another watch had transferred to the tank without the center cone in purifier, and the tank had a lot of water. The online generator shut down. Luckily, the tank that I switched from had plenty fuel in it for me to switch back, and an experienced engineman helped me purge the fuel on another generator and get it on line while I properly assembled the purifier and lined it up the transfer from another tank. Tied up in port on shore power, it caused no real emergency for us. Taught me to check my turn-overs carefully - I should have seen the center cone on the work bench and investigated more.
A very long time ago, I recall coming on watch at midnight and as I'm doing my rounds, I notice that the main engine would occasionally slow down and then pick up again; and it was getting worse. I soon found water in the heavy fuel oil service tank supplying fuel to the main engine, once that was drained off, the main engine ran much better. Funny that. I forget the root cause now, but I think that it was a leaking steam coil in the HFO service tank.
Good lesson there. I never transfer fuel
Or change tanks in restricted waters that should be standard procedure everywhere but you never know
@@steamman9193 what if you are a kind of boat that always operates in restricted waters? like on a river... I mean, I guess you could avoid doing it when under way... but I can see any kind of harbor support vessel having trouble with that
@@stanislavkostarnov2157 if you are on a boat exclusively in restricted waters you probably tie up often so it then. Changing tanks was just a major factor on a Staten Island ferry recently
I have no links but I saw a news report saying the fuel on the Dali was tested and found not to be bad. Whether that report was legitimate, or the test was, or they tested for everything that could be related to the fuel, (shrug). Just saying someone reported it.
You can almost always tell who the smartest person in the room is by them telling you they don't know because they don't have all the facts available to them... TY
I have often felt that an engineer will answer a request by saying what they know is possible and what they need to research but their manager will simply give the desired answer and let the engineers sweat out a solution later.
For people who don't know, this guy is a great representation of how somebody who actually knows something will talk about things. Here's what we know, here's what we can speculate, here's what we don't know and drawing very clear lines between them. He's here to provide an educated perspective, not quotes to use for clickbait headlines.
Sal recommended you, and you've been great. No regrets following you.
Licensed engineer turned port state control here. I do appreciate you making it abundantly clear that without power, you are without propulsion. Those electronically timed engines sometimes use a fuel rail, meaning there may be a quantity of fuel ready to go if engine autmoation is battery powered and able to open the solenoids. But the point about blowers is extremely valid. Plus the prop may still be windmilling with that much speed, making it more difficult to start in astern direction. I would not be surprised if the smoke we are seeing is just partially burnt fuel getting shot out the stack by the turbos as the engine spools down. This is absolute speculation and I agree there may be other causes for the smoke.
I am also glad to see your commentary on the exhaust smoke. I was getting raked over the coals on reddit for a bit for saying that this exhaust was NOT just the engine going astern. At first I thought it was an exhaust fire or something, because it should not be that thick and black for that duration of time. After watching it a few more times and seeing the smoke come to a sudden stop it is clearly not a fire, but it was that abnormal to me and something I am glad to see now getting attention.
I hesitate to say that they were doing any fuel changeover or tank swapping while leaving port. I do think a more innocent explanation is at hand somewhere. I was on one ship departing Hawaii big island, the generator overspeed sensor had a spring just suddenly shear, all the load went to the other generator and caused it to trip, and we browned out. That first generator would not come online again because even though it was stopped, automation thought it was overspeeding. Crazy stuff happens. The more surprising part to me is that the EDG on the Dali did not seem to at any point ever take the load. That is something ships are required to test regularly, and should happen within a max of 45 seconds. If it is 46 seconds, flag and class should be issuing deficiencies to get this rectified. If it takes a minute then the ship should be no-sailed. There are clearly multiple issues at play here. Whatever tripped the main gens, and whatever stopped the EDG from taking the load (EDGs notably have a separate fuel tank from the main gens so bad fuel or inappropriate fuel swapping can't explain everything).
I’m at sea now so not getting the full spectrum of information but how people know so confidently what they don’t know is alarming I have little faith in a real incident report being generated because the people who generate it probably have absolutely no experience on these types of ships and engines. It’s just like a EMD expert it’s absolutely nothing like an EMD
They were having issues with the breakers while docked
@@Bryan-Hensley what does issues with the breakers mean. What issues? And why did they leave the dock if they knew it was a potential problem
@@Bryan-Hensley One person reported this and they weren't directly involved with the ship. So far no one else working at the port has come forward to verify this.
"Hollywood has corrupted your brain", LOL !!!
Ok, then. Look into the Stuxnet worm.
Shame he knows nothing about making an interesting video.
I'm not going to sit here and say every possible thing. Although I know nothing specific, it's some how better when I speculate every possibility.
@@lc3853 and you came back with Stuxnet… Just stop…
@@iain4295Go take your meds.. And call your Doctor, Because they clearly need adjusted...
@@iain4295 re: " Shame he knows nothing about making an interesting video."
How to say "Entertain me, I am a child" w/o saying "Entertain me, I am a child".
I love his no-nonsense videos, straight to the point, and everything makes sense, is rational, and it shows he knows his stuff.
I was Assistant Engineer on a destroyer in Vietnam. It was not diesel powered, but we did have many electric pumps and backups; nonetheless, you hit the nail on the head. No electricity, no power You have to wonder when the lights went out, what caused it. Possibly dirty fuel; possibly a dead short somewhere. None of this can be fixed or worked around in a very short time. It all takes time to line up and start and they didn't have any time. Thanks for your information. Please keep the video's coming. I am always fascinated by ships and the engineering it takes to make them run.
fantastic.. "without data, we start making up stories".. love the logical approach.. sorely missed in a media driven world...
The only story I haven't seen YET is the aliens, but I won't hold my breath.
Thanks, Chief! I have seen local Baltimore news reports that Dali was having electrical problems while docked in Baltimore. A local dock worker was interviewed and claimed that they were having to supply shore power (I think that's what she said) because Dali was not able to supply power to the refrigerator containers on board without blowing on-board circuit breakers. If accurate, that suggests a problem, or problems, with the on-board generators that may not have been completely corrected prior to departure. Your explanation that this type of large diesel engine will not function without electrical power for various pumps now makes this part of the story make some sense. Question: Do the same generators (or should we say "same switchboard"?) that power the lube and fuel pumps for the main engine ALSO power the on-board refrigerator units, or is there a separate system for the containers? Thanks again for sharing your expert knowledge!
The main switchboard powers everything including the refrigerated container outlets, and those outlets are a constant battle keeping the working they get abused by the longshoremen dropping things on them they they leak and get water inside
@@steamman9193Say it ain’t so…
If you don't start the engine in the first 2 or 3 times, the compressed air reservoirs are getting low and with no compressors working, you don't have air to start Doris. All main engines in the British merchant navy were called Doris.
So was my grandmother, thanks for bringing back memories
Under SOLAS, for a single reversible engine, there must be sufficient air capacity in the air receivers to start the engine 12 times. BTW I have never called an main engine ‘Doris’ in my puff whether it was a Doxford, MAN or Sulzer #just_saying!
@@daveh8114 in the old days ov steam all engines had a name and always female eg Elizabeth
@@johngibson3837 First trip to sea was August ‘77, how far back were you!
Regulations require way more starts and then almost every builder will oversize on that again
I have a feeling its going to boil down to lack of maintenance.
A total lack of it all over the ship is one possibility you cannot rule out
I like the M.E.B.A. tee shirt. Was a member for my working life. The appeal at the end to disregard nonsense on social media will fall on a lot of deaf ears. We're currently hoping that the ship of state doesn't hit a preverbal bridge of disaster because a significant percentage of the electorate doesn't understand and worse, will gravitate toward dangerous nonsense because they just don't understand how complicated that system is and how it works. My two cents is on bad fuel, but like you say, lets wait for the accident report to learn the actual cause.
I think you mention a good point there, the average social media viewer doesn’t have the knowledge base of what goes on in the engines of big ships. They don’t understand the complexities. This includes me, so I’m just trying to watch what the experts say. 🤗🥰
Very refreshing to see someone who says "I'm not going to guess."
Lol, that's exactly what I said about the cyber hack. Way too much Hollywood and Netflix 😂😂
Wait... some people were suggesting cyber hack?! I hadn't even seen that.
Thanks. The same type of thing happened to the Mark W Barker off Detroit last summer. She lost power and went aground off Belle Isle. I don’t follow oceans shipping, but I do follow the lakers. I like right on the St Clair River and a lot of my family used to sail. Mishaps happen all the time. Groundings, fires, striking docks, it’s not a conspiracy.
You report the facts, no hype, no pre-conclusions!
I thank Sal for sending me your and Makoi way... The voices of reason in a mixed up world! Safe waves, Good Sir and I look forward to your next post :-)
Even if it a hack was possible, hitting the bridge would be like hitting the lottery.
Sal recommended you. I very much appreciate you sticking to the known facts. In the late 70s and early 80s I was on active duty in the Coast Guard at MSO Paducah. I was the investigating officer. I do not have even 1/100 of your experience. It will be interesting to see what started the chain of events that (proximate cause) that lead to the root cause. The engineering spaces aboard ships like the Dali are so complex. Filling the facts between the main engine shutting down and what caused it is going to involve a lot of analysis of the interrelated systems. Finding which cause effect events that are in the proximate cause chain to the root cause and those that are not will drive the investigators crazy.
Hopefully this event will cause a few more people to understand just how little regard most "legit" media outlets and nearly ALL social media commenters have for getting things *_RIGHT._* All they _really_ care about is getting their spew *_seen._*
Aloha Chief!
I can tell you are a very Trained
C/E! SUNY & MEBA Trained, American owned & Flagged Jones Act vessels!
I am Retired Navy man, first ship was the USS Ranger (CV-61) 8-1200 # boilers, 4 engine rooms, and 4 shafts, pushing about 300,000 HP. 20 years with SIU. So, I have been sailing for a few days...Lol.
I Loved when you called out the Sabbatoge/hackers, that was good!
I wish they would build new Steamers, They could make more efficient ones IF they wanted to! They were very low maintenance, compared to the big diesels....Never had to pull a piston on a Steamer! Lol...
Loved the Hollywood reference! 👍👍 It's so true.
Accuracy and attention to detail much appreciated.
I will believe what I believe when the Full facts are presented. We have enough Chaos in this country thanks to MSM and Social Media Journalism.
Happy Sailing!
I sure appreciate your professional perspective on this!
Got starlink on your ship? Must be just a total game changer for crew to have that communication.
Not this one ours is slower took an hour to upload this video so I can’t watch any underway
@@steamman9193appreciate all that you can, and take the time to, do from mid Pacific.
I’m with you that dirty fuel doesn’t explain all the failures. Something was obviously very wrong on the electrical side, and likely involved several cascading/overlapping events. This based on your descriptions of the systems and safeguards in place coupled with my experiences in avionics, software, and telecommunications. I could be wrong, and would only bet a luke warm coffee. I will be very interested in finding out what actually happened (although I’m sure there’s a ton of CYA and politics involved right now, more than engineering. More heat than light). Thanks again for all you’ve shared.
I was talking about this briefly to a friend,
And he immediately went full-tilt into a grand conspiracy,
It was kind of crazy......
Essentially, he claimed cyber-attack AND a backup plan of demo charges to bring the bridge down.....
Lol
WOW... Some people!
Let's call your "friends all out conspiracy", Acam's Handgranade.
Did he mention UFOs? Could be a MAGA person. They blame TRUMP LOSING THE ELECTION to aliens, presumably from UFOs.
yes next we will have rosie o'donnel yapping that steel doesn't just fall , must be demo charges on the bridge. and putin will tie it to ukraine.
I just started watching your videos the other night and feel like I don't have to worry about verifying your resume as from the first video, I knew you had some good knowledge to back you with your breakdown of different shipboard systems. When I had sticking points, I had different avenues opened based upon certain references you made. You are doing way better than most all I am seeing out there so please keep it up.
finally a return to reality, thanks
Excellent Steam Man! Please keep these videos coming. Better to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about than those posers!
Yep either something broke or someone made a big mistake. In any case I'm sure folks in the engine room were desperately trying to pull a rabbit out of that hat and the had turned up empty.
I'm a retired navy engineer. Yes, our engines are way smaller then yours and way faster spinning and the redundancy is way higher since military vessels are supposed to be designed to still be operatable after taking some hits that destroyed this or that. Yet if I recall one of the main engine on a bigger auxillary vessel and how it runs and how it get to run I'm fully with you. Hollywood corrupted lots of journalists' and "self-made-experts'" way of reconcidering reality. Most of those people have no clue at all might have going on in the engine's compartment on the Dali in the some 5 minutes before the crash. I'm pretty sure, you're the one, narrowing it the most towards what happened really here. Now I subscribed and hit the bell.
They have and are saying it was the breakers tripping was the issue. NTSB.
@@Bryan-Hensley who is "they"? The official commission didn't tell anything yet about any cause. Trustable sources like this channel or "what's up with shipping" or so do admit to be in the room of speculation. If "they" claim to know, than who are "they"? The same "they" who tell the earth being flat? Never say "they" if you want to be trusted to tell facts but conspiracy theories. There is no room for "they" in facts.
Yes sir. In the end, the best instruction/learning comes through experience. Thanks.
I noticed your jacket swinging in the background.
You must be onboard your ship👍🏽.
Adds authenticity 🤠
Good job sir
Good to know. I thought it was a poltergeist 😜
Could be a 🐈⬛, 🐕 or 👶
... or ship's 🐀
I see a cancelled Cheque sticking out of his pocket from the Iranian govt…
Thanks Chief as a recently retired 3 rd assistant diesel engineer any horse power I like your comments to the conspiracy theories out there.
Thank you for the facts. Not some bullshit assumption, just what the facts are.
This was good..what we really need is the bar talk pure speculation video.
If your buying I’m there
Great commentary. The fact that the vessel made it up the bay without incident and had an uneventful port stay is to be noted. Low emission fuel is required in port which comes from the MGO service tank. You would expect them to stay on this fuel supply leaving the dock and in confined waters and not changeover until well after passing under the Bay Bridges when the kick up the speed on the run down the Chesapeake Bay. The engineers know what happened as does the vessel superintendent. Getting the truth from them is another matter.
Bingo and I heard now the FBI is involved so this is going where both of us thought it was going
Another clue that the EDG didn't start was the second blackout. If the EDG had started and a main generator came back, the EDG would enter cool down. On a subsequent power loss, transfer back to the EDG was fast.
I think it needs to be a big part of the investigation on why backup power didn't work.
initially someone commented they had been having problems with the power for refer containers and had a bunch of work tried while tied up in port..... so maybe excessive load?
Okay so the part I'm not getting is that there was reports that the ship experienced numerous power failures while loading was going on. IF those reports are correct why was the ship told to leave the dock once the loading was done instead of being moved to another place for inspection and repair if needed?
Also, if the ship's power generation system was compromised why didn't the captain or chief engineer order all of the generators to be running at least while transitioning through the harbor into open waters?
I'm not understanding why apparent risks were taken if the failure reports are true.
Money I expect. Insurance covers the cost if they hit the bridge, but it doesn't cover the cost of them running late and missing deadlines.
Couldn’t the pilot tell captain to have all generators running? Heck, make it mandatory whenever leaving a port.
@@Steve-Richter Running all generators = too low a load on each one. This should be avoided.
@@Marine_Navigation_Know-How Yeah, I follow. Would like the ship engineers to tell us how many watts are needed to run the fuel and lube pumps. A Tesla powerwall can provide 13.5KW. Put a few of them in the engine room.
@@Marine_Navigation_Know-How Okay that sounds plausible but in that case why not have one or two of them on immediate standby or idling? Especially if there are legitimate concerns due to the recent failures.
See it seems to me if we are to believe the reports of several failures at the dock then there are serious questions as to why the ship was moving under its own power without extra safety margins until it was established that the ship was fully sea worthy again.
And also here is another problem that is only adding fuel to my questions. Last week it was revealed that the NTSB entered into a mode of blackout of information regarding this incident. I am not a conspiracy theorist in this incident, the reports of "hacking" sounded like hysteria and jumping the gun. I knew that because of watching Chief Engineer MAKOi in years past where he explained ship equipment and operations.
However the action by the NTSB around what is a major incident is in extremely poor judgment. It is almost as if they provoking people to be suspicious.
I really appreciate you pointing out what is known, and importantly what is pure speculation. You mention the Dali had electronic injection. It seems like this would have zero chance of injecting fuel without electricity.
Thank you for the rational expert view - much appreciated! 🙏
I am a retired licensed MM chief engineer. All I could do is make some educated guesses myself about what happened, but without being in the engine room of the ship at the time there's no way I could be sure either. Yes, I think I could rule out it being a computer hack from someone on shore. I would say that there was an electrical failure that kicked things off. What caused that, I don't know. It could have been from any number of causes. Did they have multiple generators up and running in parallel? Was there a problem in the breaker panels? Did someone throw the wrong switch in the ECR? All kinds of possibilities. I would say that there will eventually be some blow back to all the engine room crews in the future and probably some requirements for additional CG training. Glad I went down the gangway for the last time and am in the retirement mode.
Yeah man definitely new rules and since you retired they have already added a ton of new rules. The fuel changes and emissions reporting takes up an incredible amount of time
Sal recommended both you and Chief Makoi and you have both been great. I have subscribed to you both and rung the Bell. please keep up the great work.
Watching your video its great to hear someone saying "slow down there's allot at play and we don't know anything". Also i can't help but feel awful for the pilot and Capt. And crew. This has to devastate them.
As a major US Airline caotain and understanding its systems I understand where your coming from. Good job making it understandable.
@@Flight-td3jc Sorry, Captain, I have been typed rated on several aircraft like the B737 and A320.
Spot on once again....we won't know for sure until the report comes out. It would be great to hear from the Chief Engineer too. Maybe one day.???
Thanks for the Engineer's perspective based on fact.
What do you know happened, rather than, what you speculate may have happened.
Love the comment about the Holywood movie conspiracists!
Thanks for the input Chief it showed great level of profissionalism by not speculate the cause before the report is out, as a marine engineer my self I think is fuel related problem like contamination or something that compromised the Generator downstairs, one went down the other tried to start it went down as well and the rest is history. 💪💪💪
But he speculated, especially when he said "in my experience it's stuck fuel pumps". Even if you're just explaining system operation, if you're doing it in the context of a mishap, it's getting into speculation. If you're looking to avoid speculation, then don't be making videos or doing interviews with media. By the way, investigators speculate. They just call it hypothesis testing as part of the scientific method. They just have more data.
I’m not sold on the fuel thing yet because they should have been on diesel
Great job, Chief! Many thanks - this is what we ex-Masters and ex-DPAs needed (the story from a Chief Engineer)! Safe sailing - keep the Dali comments coming.
I was wondering what happened to my brain...lol. Thanks, Chief. ❤
I worked on ships doing insulation for many things in 35 years had to work with some great chiefs had to learn when to work and what to work on and why
Hi, excellent commentary. I have a quibble (NOT a criticism), about root cause. I’m a trained root cause facilitator who has lead many incident investigations at a large chemical facility. Again, this is a quibble, but the root cause won’t be the power failure. The “root cause” will likely be one of three things, mechanical, electrical or human failure. Example; the Challenger disaster rc was a combination of factors leading to the Morton Thiokol O-ring to fail, such as NASA pressure to launch and the freezing temps that lead to the failure.
As you properly stated, we won’t know anything until the report comes out.
I’m trying my best to be brief, but could go on & on.
I hope you have a safe voyage and thank you for sharing your expertise so we cal all learn.
Appreciate the insights and perspective you're sharing
4/8/24..hey Steam man! Loved your very honest straight-up talk 2day re: Dali-FSK bridge..trying to analyze what happened. I am not diesel (automotive/truck/hvy equip/farm) engine savvy so a giant 2cycle Marine/ocean going ships engine functioning is over my head...but hey, this engine runs on fuel...if No Fuel then No run ! Something supplying fuel stopped supplying... hope you can read that 'black box' report & tell all we YT viewers, in your 'straight talk' manner...what happened?...& why?
Thx, stay safe & carry on!💪💥🙂
Another ship lost power near a bridge somewhere up around NY.
Yes, last week by the Verazanno Bridge. This being the second in two weeks, now we have to at least ask why?
@@TheFunkybertBecause there are a lot of ships and the average age is decades and stuff breaks but the news only reports things it thinks will get attention like a non newsworthy thing almost like the newsworthy thing that got a lot of attention last week. It's like the media is set up to turn people into conspiracy theorists rather than inform them.
Thanks Chief for the common sense analysis. Having worked on large marine diesels years ago (in 1980s not as big as those) Fairbanks Morse 12 cylinder 38 1/8 TD, and EMD generators while in the Coast Guard, I said from the beginning this was more than likely a fuel issue (bad fuel, to much fuel, opening/closing the wrong valve, etc.) that started this cascade of events and I would not have wanted to be in the engine room that day. These guys were scrambling to try to pull off a miracle. Like you I wish these arm chair quarterbacks would shut their pie holes and wait for more information.
Thanks for the video Chief. I had a 3rd steam/diesel unlimited tonnage license back until 1992. I sailed on both steam and diesel ships and I agree with your statements.
Turbo charged and/or blown two stroke high efficiency computer controlled injection engines. Love to learn more. ❤❤❤
Thanks for the update! Glad I found your channel…. Thanks to Sal!
As a former Chief Engineer and a retired senior surveyor and Lead ISM and ISPS auditor with LRS, your comments are spot on. We won't know what happened until the report is made available. There is a lot of guessing as to what actually happened. Thank you for your incite.
When you say "fuel pump" do you mean what would be the injector in a high speed diesel ? Or a high pressure pump to supply the injectors ? Thanks.
High pressure fuel pump supplies the injector for each cylinder
@@steamman9193 thanks
@@steamman9193The MAN B&W S90ME-C8-TII (not that different from what's installed on the Dali)
Uses an electronically controlled hydraulic pressure booster per cylinder to produce fuel injection pressure.
The injectors are also electronically controlled.
Lubricating oil is pressurised by 2 to 4 mechanically or electrically driven hydraulic pumps to power the fuel pressure boosters.
Source: MAN B&W S90ME-C8-TII pdf from MAN Diesel and Turbo, document number 198 76 10-7.1
@@dougaltolan3017 I’m referring to generator fuel pumps sticking and I don’t know the engine types for the generator. But for the main there are positive displacement supply pumps that supply fuel from the service tank and if they aren’t on they should be acting like a plug keeping fuel from getting from the service tank to the engine pumps
I saw someone report (I think it was What's Going On With Shipping, or Jeffostroff) that the ship was having the same electrical issues while in port at the dock. If that is indeed the case, then like they mentioned in their video, the possibilities are endless.
You think you have it fixed, happens again, so we try this. Seems to have worked, but happens again, etc. Now they are leaving to hit the open waters and aren't positive if they have the problem fixed, because they may have never figured out the actual problem. It could easily be one if those issues that fixes itself for a short time, making you think whatever you did fixed it, then just kind of hoping the last thing you did what the right thing, instead of knowing. Most of us have had a car like that, especially those of us that have more than a few years on Earth.
Anyone who's been out in open water knows that going out with an intermittent propulsion problem is a huge gamble. Not only could you be stranded and drifting, if bad weather finds you, your problems just keep compounding. Lives, money, and the whole vessel.
Thanks for sharing your videos
if the lights go out, it means current is not getting to the lights, it does not mean the engine has stopped
It does mean the main engine shuts down on its saftey devices
@@steamman9193 providing that system is working
Is there a role for battery backup systems on the large ships?
Maybe we are generally 20+ years behind in technology I still have CD drives on my computers
Thank you. People are listening to you. Only Karen’s that do not go on facts and are guessing that they have the right opinions.
Thanks for the video. Looking forward to the analysis of the accident report.
EverGrand accident took 2 1/2 years. Just released last week.. you’ll forget about all this by the time it’s completed
@@TheFunkybertMore like people will still be doing wild speculating and the report will go unnoticed by 99% of them. I bet Sal will cover it in detail though.
From a retired Navy Master Chief🫡 Following your podcast 👍 You are always going to have people who really don’t know what goes on a merchant vessel! Navy Ships are so much different we have back up on back up but merchant shipping vessels are not always strictly regulated as they should be! Keep up your best work and keep on posting!
Thanks for the straight scoop!
Fair winds & following seas...
WGOWS sent me over. Subscribed.
No air to that main engine would mean a lot of very black smoke
But theoretically the fuel tank to the main engine is off too with no fuel supply pumps. That’s why I lean on the smoke more likely from a generator
Excellent synopsis. I had a ssdg with stuck fuel pumps on a ship in Ros) . It would not shut down. (.It kept running and rotating at a reduced RPM. we starved it by covering the turbo air suction with a plastic bag. The black smoke was so bad that the fire dept showed up without being called. they just showed up as they were 2 blocks away in downtown SF. I guess someone called the fire dept.
All I hear is Scotty I’m giving it all she’s got captain
Now that's a real Pro talking here!, no assumptions.
Thank you very much for your video. Listening to your analysis made me realize none of us are playing from the same sheet of music. I have not seen the same videos you have.
I would love to see the printout of the alarms to match it to the videos.
In the late 1990s, we worked with ABB (Automation, Power Management System, Electrical Equipment), and MAN-B&W (Main Engines) to make it possible to connect the ship to the makers for remote diagnosis and remote upgrades. Technically the ship and shore could be linked.
Practically, the links were never made. The need for firewalls and the transmission of data via satellite or cellular networks made it impossible. I retired in 2010 and I can't speak to what has been since.
As an "old timer," I question running ships with 21-man crews. I question the use of AI and the use of unmanned vessels. Imagine if the MV Dali left the dock with nobody on board.
Automation technology is coming. Shipping companies are going to get rid of the cost of crew, no matter how much infrastructure or law they have to change to do it. You know how they are about people.
This actually fits the data. Thanks Chief!
Lookout! It's the smartest guy in the room.
Thanks for your informed opinions. Great to hear common sense on this. Everything you said makes sense.
Thanks for the videos. I have learned a lit.
What type of synchronisation do these ships use on the generators? I know deep-sea is pretty common for paralleling gen sets.
THANK YOU for the no B S approach!
Hi I did not realize that big ship engine has to have support engines to keep then running. I'am a retired Detroit Desiel mechanic. (2 stroke engines no fuel & air no run that simple)
This video clarifies matters as to why the ship, once power had been lost, could not avoid the bridge. Once main propulsion had shut down and could not be effectively restarted, that much inertia and loss of steerage way was going to make the ship just continue on whatever line it was traveling- which, of course, ended,when it struck the Key Bridge.
Wrong! You did NOT ACCOUNT for that CLEARLY radical sharp TURN to STARBOARD seconds prior to the SIDE of the bow sideswiping the pillars. This was NOT a HEAD ON STRIKE!
@@samuelcollins1331Um... The ship was veering to starboard (right) out of the channel and aimed right at the bridge support, but in the last few seconds somehow turned to port (left), making it not a head-on collision.
How about something too too simple, Chief, forgetting to change over generator day tanks at standby? At the dock and with crew changing watches to go ashore, the generator day tanks are not changed over at stby. Improbable yes, but with changes in personnel, (like a new 2nd A/E and/or first) at the dock and others going ashore for a couple hours, the possibility of some common procedure neglected has to be taken into account. Correcting this could have cause a number of false starts hence the smoke. Not enough smoke for Main Engine start failure for me but I spent 32 years sailing steam boats. I did sail a Sea Land D-9 in the 80's and APL's President Adams mid 90's. Simple human error should be eliminated before looking to any mechanical failure if a solution is not obvious. Pure unadulterated speculation but I wanted to put it out there. Fair winds and following seas. C/E '79 Calhoon Meba Graduate
One idea that I thought of was that some one had serviced the fuel strainers/filters in the fuel oil supply system in port, but somehow did that wrong leaving one strainer full of air. The in-service strainer shows a high differential pressure as they get into the channel, they go to change over to the spare, but it's full of air instead of fuel and crashes the generators. This is pure speculation with no evidence.
One ship I worked on, we cracked a main engine cylinder liner, the first thing we knew about it was the TV went off mid pacific at about 8 pm as the first to fail device in a ship wide blackout. The jacket cooling systems between the main engine and generators were cross connected using the same water. Combustion gases from the cracked main engine liner got trapped in the running generator causing it to overheat and trip off. "Got a problem with the TV shutting off, go look at your main engine.". Funny, but true on that occasion.
@@lindsaydempsey5683 Not bleeding off the air is even better than mine. So many points of failure when people are involved. A mindless routine is sometimes the best.
Ehhh maybe usually these big ships don’t have day tanks like you are thinking about. Also a D-9 and c-10 veteran
Great analysis - thanks
More great info once again. Thanks for sharing.
Power out - bow thrusters if equipped out looks like locomotive starting - Big Gens started - This crew had so little time - aside from things that have to happen automatically, poor crew had very little time to define and solve the problems.
He did a video yesterday on his bow thrusters. 35,000 HP electric motor, takes 3 main generators running. Probably the Dali was similar, but maybe not?
@@k538473500HP not 35,000 but to your point, it's a very significant singular load.
@@k53847Does a bow thruster even do anything at a forward speed of 8 knots? Maybe reduce drag a bit by interfering with flow sticking to the hull... But the turning force would be tiny compared to the dynamic forces from the passing water.
I understand hacking better than I do large diesel engines. I know industrial systems are hacked and many incidents are regularly reported by security experts on Steve Gibson’s security now podcast. He reported, for example, that the Royal Navy runs a version of Windows the call Windows for Warships. I don’t remember what it controls, but isn’t a secure choice of operating system. But I have no idea if commercial ship systems are vulnerable. So I’m assuming internal system failure until shown to be external interference. Really helpful post to clearly define just how little we know. The lights went out, the smoke came out, the Dali hit the bridge and someone who knows how the ship’s systems work doesn’t pretend to know what happened. That’s rare and special.
There’s no connections for any of the controls system for anyone to access. Those computers aren’t connected to the world
So... Every mechanical device will fail & even some with redundant back-up capabilities. Gonna happen sometime! Inevitable...
Failures happen! Real problem is failure of harbor, city & Feds to protect vital infrastructure! No excuse & not a surprise with larger & heavier ships moving freight! And it WILL happen again unless this country gets serious & smarter about fiscal choices! If you can't afford to fix your brakes, replace bald tires or even check & change the oil... You can't afford to drive... Egregious!!
Why not have backup generator running while ship is passing through harbor? Could the switch power source immediately
@@Steve-Richter If you run a backup generator for normal routine things, it is no longer a backup generator. If you pay attention to the engineers, they say that there should have been more than one generator running just for normal operations, and a backup should not have been needed. Stop looking for simple fixes, and wait for the reports to come out.
forensic engineering and failure guy sent me. New sub.
What guy maybe I should follow him?
So if the running lights are powered from the emergency bus and they came back on with the deck lights, that would mean:1-the emergency switchboard isolated from the normal supply and the diesel started and powered the emergency load, or 2-the emergency switchboard did not separate from the main switchboard and a main generator was started and supplied power to all loads. Either way the generator providing power after the initial power loss stopped and didn’t come back on.
I don’t think we saw the running lights I think we saw the deck/walking around lights
Given that all the lights went out at once, I am going to speculate that there was a power outage.😅
Thanks for the excellent video.
Thanks Chief!
Great report. So, no electricity no propulsion. But also, no electricity no rudder? It seem like with the speed and momentum they had if they had rudder they could have stayed in the channel.
Well I’d say that’s not exactly accurate we aren’t sure if the emergency generator came on. It may have we just can’t see that. It SHOULD have and if it didn’t that’s an indicator of a lot more going on with that ship
Thank you for your input.
Like many, we await the report but that will take a while…
Thanks
Another great video. Thanks! Keep it up!
wow, what informative videos, thanks for putting these out. who thought marine diesel engines and the people & process that keep them running could be so interesting :)
Question, in an earlier vid you described the redundant systems providing rudder control, with further redundancy in the electrical systems needed to drive them. However, you also mentioned the emergency generator isn't normally kept running and takes time (20-30?) secs to kick in. Would a ships crew consider putting it on standby when navigating through a critical waterway, like under a bridge? is that even possible & would it help if the primary electrical system failed?
So in restricted waters you’re supposed to have an extra main generator online that’s your first set of redundancy. I’m curious to know if Dali was operating like
That. Emergency generator is kept in peak condition by not running it normally and wearing it out so it’s truly ready for an actual emergency. It’s actually regulated so that it can’t be run with the main generators for that reason. It’s supposed to be tested frequently at least before every port arrival and departure there are other alternative schedules but weekly at least