Excellent conversation. Thank you for taking the time & effort to share this publicly. So many relevant points with regard to leadership & social relations.
Great talk. Daniel - I can think of no one to approach these topics with such lucidity, to borrow Cadell's word, and present them from this particular angle. I have heard voices calling for the left to 'recapture' the notion/idea of the family from the domination of the right's discourses, whether traditionalistic or fundamentalist christian (at least in my country), or the neoliberal vision of what appears to me a thinly veiled, cynical, postmodern (at times) social darwinism. Also, great respect for being committed to the (reimagining of) an idea of egalitarianism. This is what we need today - bringing back to life a better egalitarianism, more coducive to general well-being and development, growth and a sense of community. Most of the time this seems to me like an impossible task, but your work gives me some hope. Thanks for making such conversations possible, Cadell. Can't wait to read the book.
You are very welcome! And I highly recommend Dr. Tutt's work on psychoanalysis and the family. We need more attention to these issues and connections, especially as it relates to the political stakes, which you outline very well.
21:40 💯 my thoughts exactly! The post-crash family sees the lack of economic mobility out there (perhaps a few lucky ones can move upward) and is moving into more and more of a protectionist formation. Another angle to this is the cost of caring for elderly working class parents end of life, those who have zero savings, who will have to work until they are broken-the parents who were able to build up retirement or inheret fortunes seem to view this as undue caretaking burden drawing from their assets. And given the temporal/financial demands of todays world, old age care that meets any modicum of human decency is absolutely unaffordable for most. The class dimension of marriage really is becoming palpable now that we are in such austere times.
I always think of the instrumentalization modern workers are subjected to as terrible animal husbandry. Working in corporate America especially is evocative of this with its incredibly infantilizing and constant team gaslighting meetings, its brutal contradictions of saying "were family" yet applying crushing pressure to conform and keep quiet about problems, and most of all in its endless desire to force workers to "be happy, be creative" and into forced relationships in the hopes of artifically increasing productivity. The modern workforce is treated like cattle on a factory farm quite literally-if you don't produce milk then you become hamburger.
Great work Cadell. At 36 and expecting my second child in a few weeks, this conversation is both grounding and inspiring. I hope it lasts, but becoming a father has forced me to double down on my politics and stubbornly refuse to just "raise children and work". There is much sacrifice for sure but there's much hope and this dialogue is a testament to that. Thanks to Daniel for his wonderful insights. Looking forward to reading the book when I get a minute. Cheers from Montreal!
Hi Roberto, that is amazing that this conversation was able to both ground and inspire (that sounds like a good combo)! I hope that you stick to being able to go beyond just raising children and working. On a personal level I can relate to the feeling of children being frightening in the sense that it may reduce my function in such a way. Finding a path beyond does indeed seem to require both grounding and inspiration. But as we mentioned during a part of the conversation, there are people who seem to find the motivation they need to even become more productive when they have children (productive in a genuine creative sense, not just in a reduction to work function). I highly recommend Daniel Tutt's work, it has helped me a lot as well, and I hope we can continue this dialogue going deep into 2024. Keep a look out 👀
Your conversation about Nietzsche brought to focus for me an association between Zarathustra’s struggle with leadership, Nietzsche’s own arc, and the topic of dependency that was touched on earlier. Let’s not forget that Nietzsche as a spiritual and intellectual leader did not happen until he effectively became totally dependent on others, almost like a Beckett character. Though I am sure it is a myth, there is much to be said about Nietzsche’s own “revolutionary moment” of the Turin horse, which perhaps we can fashion into some abstract response to the dilemma initially implied in the Lion example
Hi Louis, I am glad this link between Zarathustra and leadership stuck out for you! You may in fact be interested in the latest Philosophy Portal anthology, Abyssal Arrows, which aims to bring out exactly that connection. That is a very interesting observation about Nietzsche and dependence. I happened to have a conversation recently about the importance of cultivating a form of subjective leadership where you are capable of caring for those who are most dependent or most vulnerable. That does indeed seem to be a revolutionary moment, and one that I hope to investigate further in Lacanian/psychoanalytic ground during our next Philosophy Portal course on the Ecrits. Thanks for your tuning in and for your insightful comment 🙃🙂
Excellent conversation. Thank you for taking the time & effort to share this publicly. So many relevant points with regard to leadership & social relations.
Thank you very much, and it is my pleasure that this is public. Keep a look out, Daniel Tutt and I will be back at it on this topic for sure!
Great talk. Daniel - I can think of no one to approach these topics with such lucidity, to borrow Cadell's word, and present them from this particular angle.
I have heard voices calling for the left to 'recapture' the notion/idea of the family from the domination of the right's discourses, whether traditionalistic or fundamentalist christian (at least in my country), or the neoliberal vision of what appears to me a thinly veiled, cynical, postmodern (at times) social darwinism.
Also, great respect for being committed to the (reimagining of) an idea of egalitarianism. This is what we need today - bringing back to life a better egalitarianism, more coducive to general well-being and development, growth and a sense of community.
Most of the time this seems to me like an impossible task, but your work gives me some hope.
Thanks for making such conversations possible, Cadell.
Can't wait to read the book.
You are very welcome! And I highly recommend Dr. Tutt's work on psychoanalysis and the family. We need more attention to these issues and connections, especially as it relates to the political stakes, which you outline very well.
21:40 💯 my thoughts exactly! The post-crash family sees the lack of economic mobility out there (perhaps a few lucky ones can move upward) and is moving into more and more of a protectionist formation. Another angle to this is the cost of caring for elderly working class parents end of life, those who have zero savings, who will have to work until they are broken-the parents who were able to build up retirement or inheret fortunes seem to view this as undue caretaking burden drawing from their assets. And given the temporal/financial demands of todays world, old age care that meets any modicum of human decency is absolutely unaffordable for most. The class dimension of marriage really is becoming palpable now that we are in such austere times.
I always think of the instrumentalization modern workers are subjected to as terrible animal husbandry. Working in corporate America especially is evocative of this with its incredibly infantilizing and constant team gaslighting meetings, its brutal contradictions of saying "were family" yet applying crushing pressure to conform and keep quiet about problems, and most of all in its endless desire to force workers to "be happy, be creative" and into forced relationships in the hopes of artifically increasing productivity. The modern workforce is treated like cattle on a factory farm quite literally-if you don't produce milk then you become hamburger.
This is a legendary comment 💯 I am glad I am as far from this culture as possible. 🍔
Great work Cadell. At 36 and expecting my second child in a few weeks, this conversation is both grounding and inspiring. I hope it lasts, but becoming a father has forced me to double down on my politics and stubbornly refuse to just "raise children and work". There is much sacrifice for sure but there's much hope and this dialogue is a testament to that. Thanks to Daniel for his wonderful insights. Looking forward to reading the book when I get a minute. Cheers from Montreal!
Hi Roberto, that is amazing that this conversation was able to both ground and inspire (that sounds like a good combo)! I hope that you stick to being able to go beyond just raising children and working. On a personal level I can relate to the feeling of children being frightening in the sense that it may reduce my function in such a way. Finding a path beyond does indeed seem to require both grounding and inspiration. But as we mentioned during a part of the conversation, there are people who seem to find the motivation they need to even become more productive when they have children (productive in a genuine creative sense, not just in a reduction to work function). I highly recommend Daniel Tutt's work, it has helped me a lot as well, and I hope we can continue this dialogue going deep into 2024. Keep a look out 👀
Your conversation about Nietzsche brought to focus for me an association between Zarathustra’s struggle with leadership, Nietzsche’s own arc, and the topic of dependency that was touched on earlier. Let’s not forget that Nietzsche as a spiritual and intellectual leader did not happen until he effectively became totally dependent on others, almost like a Beckett character. Though I am sure it is a myth, there is much to be said about Nietzsche’s own “revolutionary moment” of the Turin horse, which perhaps we can fashion into some abstract response to the dilemma initially implied in the Lion example
Hi Louis, I am glad this link between Zarathustra and leadership stuck out for you! You may in fact be interested in the latest Philosophy Portal anthology, Abyssal Arrows, which aims to bring out exactly that connection. That is a very interesting observation about Nietzsche and dependence. I happened to have a conversation recently about the importance of cultivating a form of subjective leadership where you are capable of caring for those who are most dependent or most vulnerable. That does indeed seem to be a revolutionary moment, and one that I hope to investigate further in Lacanian/psychoanalytic ground during our next Philosophy Portal course on the Ecrits. Thanks for your tuning in and for your insightful comment 🙃🙂