Really great observation - I generally work in small (white) spaces where black foam-core always makes a difference. I'll remember this information when I go use a larger space!
Just finished building my first V-flats and was explaining it to someone that's never used them and kept saying "negative" fill because all I think it's doing is blocking bounce, not some magic sucked light out of the world. Funny that you'd post this today.
Negative fill is a term a little like describing your light as "wrapping" around the subject. Something is occurring, but not generally in the way the term describes. Since there are no dark bulbs, only light bulbs, it will always be about the absence of light, or blocking the reflection/bounce. Good explanation and visuals.
I personally think the term “negative fill” is just something used for the ease of explaining the “effect” because you can’t “negative” something. I can’t “negative fill” a glass of water, I’m either taking water out of the glass or I’m not putting in it. For all intent, regardless of technical explanation of what is happening, I think many people understand what “effect” they’re looking to achieve by using a black card. Similar to the annihilated topic of focal length on a crop sensor, people will say “this 50 is an xx on a crop sensor” and then inevitably someone will say, “no, a 50 is a 50, but the field of view…”. Most of us fully understand what is meant behind the first one, even though the second one is technically correct.
"You can''t negative fill a glass of water." I'm 100% going to use that! I just think if we called it what it is, a flag, then people would understand that it's blocking light. IDK
@@JohnGress you’re just trying to start a war 😂😂😂 just kidding, I think regardless of the term used, people will interpret however they see fit - correctly and incorrectly - but I always say, if they know WHAT they’re expecting to have happen, that generally trumps knowing HOW it happens.
@@AnthonyToglife I suppose you're right, the ends do justify the means. The next campaign in the war will be Shutter Speeds don't matter! (In the studio, well sort of)
Basically you temporary change the color of the existing wall to black. More or less. Also, the black curtain that can be slided over the wall is a nice option too.
Hmmm, quite interesting. So what would you do in your situation if you would want more shadow / deeper blacks on the shadowside of his face? Bring the light closer for more light fall off? Smaller lightsource? But then also less soft light. Maybe use a grid to bounce /wrap less light around. Curious to know!
Shadows happen in areas that aren't being struck by the light source, so the angle is really important. A smaller light source relative to the person would also produce more abrupt shadows.
@@JohnGress Would the inverse square law also be a good device for this? Uh... it's what I use. But let me tell you something - I honestly believe you are a master of lighting. Your photography is incredibly beautiful. But, as a straight guy, I'd like to see more chicks. hehe
Ha! More chicks coming soon and thank you. Anytime something is under exposed by about 4 stops its probably going to be black so if the main light is closer to your subject and the opposite wall is not so close, you'll get there.
So, in that environment, if you’d like to manipulate the light hitting the talent, instead of adding a fill light competing with the sun, you could add a dark obstacle to subtract bounce light from the surroundings and thus kind of giving a meaning to the nickname “negative fill”?
Negative Fill is just another name for localized shading. Creating Dark Zones with the use of Black Vflats, Black Flags and Duvetyn Floppy's around a subject while using powerful speedlights or strobes requires the same level of understanding as lighting and reflective light. Strategically place Dark Zones shading Diffused light around a subject helps to create contrast separation on your subject from high value backgrounds.
But dude, it's not a lie, you're comparing to your own studio, which has no ounce. Others may have it, not using a neutral grey or something, as you demo'd with the bounce and fill. Who said you need negative fill if you already have a good shadow? Who are "they"? Thanks for the video
Negative fill in any room is just blocking reflected light. It’s not sucking light out of the shadows. That’s why I showed this with both a white vflat and the neutral room.
Good clarification especially for beginners. Also "negative" fill reduces color cast from wardrobe and other surfaces that occur during the flash.
Thanks! Good point. If a surface is reflecting light, that light could if a cast.
Really great observation - I generally work in small (white) spaces where black foam-core always makes a difference. I'll remember this information when I go use a larger space!
Thanks! At least now you know what is actually happening in the space you're in and maybe that will help too.
Just finished building my first V-flats and was explaining it to someone that's never used them and kept saying "negative" fill because all I think it's doing is blocking bounce, not some magic sucked light out of the world. Funny that you'd post this today.
Right on time!
Negative fill is a term a little like describing your light as "wrapping" around the subject. Something is occurring, but not generally in the way the term describes. Since there are no dark bulbs, only light bulbs, it will always be about the absence of light, or blocking the reflection/bounce. Good explanation and visuals.
Thanks! That "wrap" idea is another one. I wonder how I could debunk it.
Thank you so much for this great video. I hate it when they call it negative fill, much clearer the way you explain it.
Thanks! Glad to hear it!
Thank you. That’s been bugging me forever. It should be called a cutter or flag because that’s the function it performs
Ikr! Calling it a flag would make so much more since.
I personally think the term “negative fill” is just something used for the ease of explaining the “effect” because you can’t “negative” something. I can’t “negative fill” a glass of water, I’m either taking water out of the glass or I’m not putting in it. For all intent, regardless of technical explanation of what is happening, I think many people understand what “effect” they’re looking to achieve by using a black card. Similar to the annihilated topic of focal length on a crop sensor, people will say “this 50 is an xx on a crop sensor” and then inevitably someone will say, “no, a 50 is a 50, but the field of view…”. Most of us fully understand what is meant behind the first one, even though the second one is technically correct.
"You can''t negative fill a glass of water." I'm 100% going to use that! I just think if we called it what it is, a flag, then people would understand that it's blocking light. IDK
@@JohnGress you’re just trying to start a war 😂😂😂 just kidding, I think regardless of the term used, people will interpret however they see fit - correctly and incorrectly - but I always say, if they know WHAT they’re expecting to have happen, that generally trumps knowing HOW it happens.
@@AnthonyToglife I suppose you're right, the ends do justify the means. The next campaign in the war will be Shutter Speeds don't matter! (In the studio, well sort of)
Great video John.
Thanks Stephen!
Great clarity for when and how to use a black reflector
Thanks man!
Basically you temporary change the color of the existing wall to black. More or less. Also, the black curtain that can be slided over the wall is a nice option too.
Also objects reflecting light may reflect colored light.
Thanks John!
Thank you!
Hmmm, quite interesting. So what would you do in your situation if you would want more shadow / deeper blacks on the shadowside of his face? Bring the light closer for more light fall off? Smaller lightsource? But then also less soft light. Maybe use a grid to bounce /wrap less light around. Curious to know!
Shadows happen in areas that aren't being struck by the light source, so the angle is really important. A smaller light source relative to the person would also produce more abrupt shadows.
@@JohnGress Would the inverse square law also be a good device for this? Uh... it's what I use. But let me tell you something - I honestly believe you are a master of lighting. Your photography is incredibly beautiful. But, as a straight guy, I'd like to see more chicks. hehe
Ha! More chicks coming soon and thank you. Anytime something is under exposed by about 4 stops its probably going to be black so if the main light is closer to your subject and the opposite wall is not so close, you'll get there.
It would be nice to se a video where you do the same test on a field outside, on a cloudy day 👍🏻
It will block light from the clouds, which is basically a soft box, and it will block light from reflecting off the vegetation.
So, in that environment, if you’d like to manipulate the light hitting the talent, instead of adding a fill light competing with the sun, you could add a dark obstacle to subtract bounce light from the surroundings and thus kind of giving a meaning to the nickname “negative fill”?
You would also be blocking THE light source.
Exactly!
thanks for getting me.
You debunked a popular narrative in less than 5 minutes. We often just use equipment blindly instead of testing the actual use case scenario.
Thanks! If you have any ideas for the next video LMK!
That would do it. Truly controlling the spread of light in general would do the trick.
Thanks!
Thanks for the information.
Is this a DIY V flat?
Thanks! It’s from V-Flat world
@@JohnGress It doesn't cover you fully. You must me tall.
6-4 / 1.93m!
@@JohnGress really appreciate the metrics!
Seriously - are you guys twins?
Not that I know of! 😉
John, I will challenge you to this subject as a filmmaker when I see you in Orlando 😜
Game on!!
That black board is not duvetyne... that's why.
I’ve run the same test with a Duvetyne flag and the results are the same.
nobody has been lying..you just didnt understand what negative fill meant if you think that.
AKA flag
People would get the concept better if we just called it a flag and not negative fill.
@@JohnGress yes, however "flag" does not sell V-Flats!
Negative Fill is just another name for localized shading. Creating Dark Zones with the use of Black Vflats, Black Flags and Duvetyn Floppy's around a subject while using powerful speedlights or strobes requires the same level of understanding as lighting and reflective light. Strategically place Dark Zones shading Diffused light around a subject helps to create contrast separation on your subject from high value backgrounds.
But dude, it's not a lie, you're comparing to your own studio, which has no ounce. Others may have it, not using a neutral grey or something, as you demo'd with the bounce and fill. Who said you need negative fill if you already have a good shadow? Who are "they"? Thanks for the video
Negative fill in any room is just blocking reflected light. It’s not sucking light out of the shadows. That’s why I showed this with both a white vflat and the neutral room.
@@JohnGress fer sure. I got the lesson. Just don't like the Clickbait titling. "They lie". Otherwise, I always enjoy and appreciate your content.