Anne Applebaum: "There Is a Part of the GOP That Sees Hungary as a Model" | Amanpour and Company
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Anne Applebaum is a staff writer for The Atlantic and a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian. Her latest article, "There Is No Liberal World Order," argues that unless democracies defend themselves together, the forces of autocracy will destroy them. She joins Michel Martin to discuss this existential struggle.
Originally aired on April 1, 2022
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Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City.
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It’s happening in plain sight here in the USA as well. Appalling.
Yeah, there a lot of 'legal' immoral practices. I could go into detail on exactly how they are put into law, but it's better that people research it themselves, so they can be educated enough to fight against it.
So true, we saw that the previous presidency, with Trump
Yep! Wake up people! Do you want the 'Red Pill or the 'Blue Pill'? As smartphones, social media, AI, robotics, facial recognition, and spyware technologies (that ‘dragnet’ and harvest our entire data storage and communications) are all being increasingly weaponized, it is leading us towards an abyss of repressive prison-like conditions of a crowd-sourced dystopian panopticon, and into a world where we are both the prisoners and guards of an all-pervasive mass surveillance state. Combine this with a 'social credit system' using 100% digital currency and zero cash where we can only buy from mega digital tech corporations, and it will be exactly the kind of oppressive, totalitarian, techno-feudalist society that will give autocratic, authoritarian neo-fascist dictators and governments absolute tyrannical power. This extreme form of pernicious political Machiavellianism will repress the masses into submission, subservience and slavery by distracting them with the Metaverse simulacra. The prototypes of this disturbing trend are already happening right now across China in Xinjiang, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Xiamen, Chengdu, Suzhou, Suqian, Huizhou, Wenzhou, Weihai, Weifang, Yiwu, and Rongcheng. It is absolutely terrifying. Aldous Huxley and George Orwell were right. Welcome to the Brave New World of 1984!
And for some crazy reason,the ones in power have decided that the orange buffoon 45 will make the perfect "leader". Maybe it's because he can be manipulated so easily by flattery and money. Lord help us all!
What is happening in America is the rule of the nation by the media.
And the media is a propaganda machine.
Propaganda machines produce zombies.
One big problem we have is that America's billionaire class / plutocrats have found that dealing with and emulating autocracies is very very profitable. And when we try to push back on this, we find that they've bought so many politicians that making change has become near impossible. Maybe we need to start thinking outside the box of conventional politics....
I totally agree about the box they’re in because as a rule their minds are so closed to every new idea be they for helping the environment or their own country and the citizens they try to control which kills creativity and innovation and therefor change of any kind. They remind me of black mold quietly growing without being obvious until it is overwhelming and becomes the deadly illness unless it is opened up to the air and cleaned in order to kill the fungus that causes it.
Careful, thinking outside the box happened with the January riot to overturn the election. That wasn’t a good thing.
This is CLASS WAR! If we fought the wealthy we could actually win
Trump is a power and money pig who adores Putin and has been trying to emulate him as much as he can. Putin has cultivated Trump as an asset. They both hate democracy. Please read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT. It will explain so many things. Get it!
Corporations, thanks to john roberts, literally bribe politicians into doing their corporate bidding. America is in its biggest threat right now
. People better wake up, before its too late. Its hard to change the rules n laws, when half the " lawmakers" are corrupt.
The people of this country also need to understand that, if democracy and its institutions aren't defended, then they will end up having to fight a resistance war, just like the people of Ukraine are doing right now.
Many U.S. citizens have been preparing ("prepping") for this event for decades - some are excited to fight, many are planning to hide, but all are scared and confused.
I think most people get this now.
Like Obama did and Biden, when the Republicans t(Romney) told Obama we need to be tougher on Russia, Obama just scolded him, and told him not to talk that way. Obama was a coward against Putin. Nice guys sure, but they are only cowards. Not wise leadership nor strength to protect our country or any other.
Yes but how will this lessen the possible imbalance of sociopaths or psychopaths choosing to get into politics and build autocratic regimes again? Putin has had 32 years to brainwash and create so much suffering. Democratic governments were partly to blame by making these oligarchs rich. And the men behind the deals on this side, did they make out okay?
@@dwaynelindstrom7790 Yes, the west was enabling Putin like fools we were and still are. Our leaders just kept dealing with Putin the psychopath, but never being strong enough to face his corruption, but fed into it. I am angry about that, because now look who is getting the hit, Ukraine.
A hidden highlight is the need to take big money out of politics, for that is the gate through which all the bad actors flow.
Truth
We’ve known this for some time. After the Supreme Court opened the already rickety floodgates all was lost. It was too late to put the genie back in the bottle. In order to change this there would need to be either a change in the Court or federal legislation, both of which require a sustained political will that is notably absent these days. In other words, for this type of change we will be waiting a while.
@@BlackDoveNYC Chance favors the prepared mind. I think there will come a time, perhaps soon, when the candidates favored by the public will be funded by the public. 🗽
You cant take big money out of politics. If the Gov wants to regulate my biz, I have the right to exert influence and partner with lawmakers who agree with me.
@@5rings16 the government is supposed to be for the people ….not for the big corporations
As a German born in 1959 I'm well aware of one very important fact. Hitler was democratically elected! What happened then must not be repeated under any circumstances.
So was Trump, Orban, Johnson.
Hitler had approval by only about 30% of the population at voting time. He made a deal with the Republican Party to get their support. That same Republican Party thought they could control what he did. They lived to regret that choice. Hitler outlawed the competition after the The 'Reichstag Fire Decree" which gave rise to the "Enabling Act" and it entrusted to Hitler, absolute power, and we all know that absolute power corrupts, absolutely. In America, Hitler's followers could be likened to the "America First" movement.
If it wasn't for the horribly unfair terms of the Treaty of Versailles, Adolph Hitler never would have come to power.
And he was not German.
He was AUSTRIAN.
When ignorant Americans start spouting about Hitler, start talking about Al Capone. That should shut them up.
@@StellarFella Oh bullcrap. The "blame the treaty of Versailles" story was right wing propaganda back then used by Hitler and the Nazis...and it still is bullcrap.
A persistent myth has it that the Treaty of Versailles was excessively harsh, and that it's harshness explains the rage that gave rise to the Nazis. Actually, the treaty was the mildest of the post First World War settlements. Experts on German and diplomatic history generally agree that it did not cause all the troubles of interwar Europe.
The France for example constantly gave the Germans breaks by allowing defaults in payments.
I highly suggest you stop repeating right wing Nazi apologetics and actually research the treaty of Versailles.
From Wikipedia (for example)=
It has been argued - for instance by historian Gerhard Weinberg in his book A World at Arms[166] - that the treaty was in fact quite advantageous to Germany. The Bismarckian Reich was maintained as a political unit instead of being broken up, and Germany largely escaped post-war military occupation (in contrast to the situation following World War II). In a 1995 essay, Weinberg noted that with the disappearance of Austria-Hungary and with Russia withdrawn from Europe, that Germany was now the dominant power in Eastern Europe.[167]
The British military historian Correlli Barnett claimed that the Treaty of Versailles was "extremely lenient in comparison with the peace terms that Germany herself, when she was expecting to win the war, had had in mind to impose on the Allies". Furthermore, he claimed, it was "hardly a slap on the wrist" when contrasted with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that Germany had imposed on a defeated Russian SFSR in March 1918, which had taken away a third of Russia's population (albeit mostly of non-Russian ethnicity), one-half of Russia's industrial undertakings and nine-tenths of Russia's coal mines, coupled with an indemnity of six billion marks.[168] Eventually, even under the "cruel" terms of the Treaty of Versailles, Germany's economy had been restored to its pre-war status.
Barnett also claims that, in strategic terms, Germany was in fact in a superior position following the Treaty than she had been in 1914. Germany's eastern frontiers faced Russia and Austria, who had both in the past balanced German power. Barnett asserts that its post-war eastern borders were safer, because the former Austrian Empire fractured after the war into smaller, weaker states, Russia was wracked by revolution and civil war, and the newly restored Poland was no match for even a defeated Germany. In the West, Germany was balanced only by France and Belgium, both of which were smaller in population and less economically vibrant than Germany. Barnett concludes by saying that instead of weakening Germany, the treaty "much enhanced" German power.[169] Britain and France should have (according to Barnett) "divided and permanently weakened" Germany by undoing Bismarck's work and partitioning Germany into smaller, weaker states so it could never have disrupted the peace of Europe again.[170] By failing to do this and therefore not solving the problem of German power and restoring the equilibrium of Europe, Britain "had failed in her main purpose in taking part in the Great War".[171
@@Raydensheraj - Sorry to rain on your parade of nonsense. Or incorrectness. Not only was the blame heaped upon Germany in the 'War Guilt Clause', but they were forced to disarm, make territorial concessions, and pay reparations in the staggering amount of 5 billion dollars. Britsh economist John Maynard Keynes left the treaty negotiations in disgust. He said the terms were so punitively unfair that they would only postpone world war for another generation. His prediction came hauntingly true. When Russia surrendered to Japan, they fought tooth and nail from having to pay reparations. Teddy Roosevelt helped them to avoid having to pay them. For successfully brokering that surrender treaty, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Correction: kleptothugocracy--rule by thieves and thugs.
I whole heartedly agree. Fantastic interview, hope you can have her back as this idea needs to be heard over and over again.
If there were only some way to get everyone to listen and act on what she said in how to stop it. If it can't be stopped, this country is in for a very dark future .
She has great books out, you should read them if you haven't already.
For the past 70years, Democracies always try to undermine Autocracies.
Now Autocracies are doing the same.
It is up to us, humanity, to stand firmly against any injustice and atrocities committed by the dictators or corrupt politicians.
Very interesting times! Everything's happened so fast, and all of a sudden we can't trust any of yesterday's certainties. We in Finland have 1 300 km of common border with Russia, so it feels a bit different to see all this from here than from the east coast of the US. Then again, we sort of have the threat of Russia in our national DNA.
People from Finland are readers. They fathom all history much better as well as current history. Arm yourself with a clear and comprehensive view from the top. Please read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT. It will explain so many things. Get it! And read his other books on Putin and Trump.
"Russia in our national DNA." And how to defeat them.
@@rodwallace6237 - We are not at battle with any one people. Instead, we are in a constant battle with PRIDE and ARROGANCE. The national pride and arrogance that is born from the blind loyalty of FASCISM. The blindly loyal people of Russia are victims of nationalism operating on deception and propaganda. No free press like Finland and other countries still have.
@@rodwallace6237 - Putin has been an evil bacteriological culture allowed to survive on the world scene. Why?
Because we have NOT adopted the global sanctions we suddenly realize we should have adopted years ago.
Finland is a premium modern nation that is fully informed by a free press and a citizenry that is well read. It is the world's most literate nation. Unfortunately, it shares a long common border with a nationalistic autocracy that is way under informed.
Everything she's describing about Orban could have been said - verbatim - of Natanyahu in Israel. It absolutely maddens me that this gets no press. It is critical to understanding anything that's happened in the country in the last 20 years, and to grasp the significance of the current Netanyahu-free government.
I remember Netanyahu's destruction of a peace process long ago and the blind eye turned. It's a reality of US politics that the Jewish lobby is powerful and the injustice has fuelled terrorism against the US.
Yes
Yes. Biden is correctly describing it as a battle between DEMOCRACY and AUTOCRACY. Trump is a power and money pig who has learned how to harness the naive populism energy in this country. Get a real background context of Trump and Putin by reading the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT. It will explain so many things including how OPUS DEI gained so much influence in the Trump administration.
While I agree with you, why is the present regime in Israel not strongly condemning Russia?
@@merhaba8 That's a different issue. I am very far from happy with this new government, and their stance on Russia is just one part of it. But with respect to corruption and democratic norms they have managed to dislodge a cancer in Israeli governance that is a mirror image - indeed the blueprint - of the Orban regime.
“Autocracies don’t believe in rules or norms”…. Ah, that definitely explains Trump
He's no longer in power. Get over it.
@@marivipalomino6975 Then why do Republicans go to his rallies?
@@marivipalomino6975 You'll be fine
@@nowthenzen They are power-hungry.
The more I consider Putin's recent pronouncements, the more I've thought how much like Trump actually Putin sounds.
A true scholar of her subject matter - thank you.
you dont know where she got it from, visibly you dont even understand what she is meaning.
@@buravan1512 another troll, theres tens of thousands from the saudis ,Russia, china,north korea,iran
..which are you troll?
@@parrisprice5892 JM
There are no true democracies
Thanks for this. _The Atlantic_ has been doing some of the best in-depth reporting in the world.
The Atlantic, a once great magazine, has been turned to Woke Garbage and ruined thanks to Steve Jobs billionaire widow buying the magazine and destroying it.
@@martinmichael2535 Yeah, there is some truth in that. However, every couple of months, they deliver better in-depth coverage of important topics than anyone else.
Maybe there is a lot of noise but, mixed in, are some real gems.
Excellent interview. Thank you!
Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you!
I am reading in PORTUGUESE . SHE could have written about the brazilian fascist.
If there is any nation that needs to be cleaned up with fascist efficiency, it is Brazil.
Always, always great to hear Anne Applebaum speak. So deeply informed, humane and articulate.
She is deadly smart. But only a guy who spent ten years torturing people at Guantanamo would use humane and Anne Applebaum in the same sentence. Are you a CIA body position torture specialist? Or drugs?
She is a racist supremicist who believes they can invade, kill and torture because they are the exceptional ones.
@@johnsmith1474 Oh, just get out of here, will you?
A good reminder to hold leaders accountable and demand the best from our representatives. The case study of Hungary is terrifying. We must pay attention and vote.
We tried to reign in the crimes of the CIA, NSA and FBI during the “Church Hearings” in 75. During the hearings we found out the CIA, per Nixon/Kissinger request, had removed the democratically elected leader of Chile, Salvador Allende, and installed Augusto Pinochet. 9/11/73
Its scary when the base Believe all the Propoganda ...
Hungary's problem has more to do with loss of sovereign power through its membership of the EU. It feels it has to preserve its own laws and borders from the open immigration policy model of the EU.
@@susannamarker2582 that is incredibly reductionist...
@@ldhorricks No, just more precise.
“Being engaged in public life is not optional anymore.”
Anne Applebaum ❤️
As if it ever was🤗🤭🤫🙄😊😉
It's never optional under communism.
And yet Civics is not compulsory in our education system and people who prefer autocracy (but call it “freedom”) are a increasingly changing state laws and being elected because citizens swallow lies as truth and care little for our society as a whole.
@@lindas.martin2806 It was compulsory in my American education. It wasn't very useful, being geared to idiots and full of lies. They never even bother to tell students that America is governed by its unelected thought control institutions (schools, unis, media, entertainment). Now that is an impressive lie of omission.
She's a fasicst, don't you know that?
Another top-notch & timely statement here by Anne that we really have to see as a crucial wake-up call. ...We, in the West, really have to find a way to get our $#@t together, or it really will be the "Twilight of Democracy" (to use her previous book's title).
I think Americans have to stop thinking of this as something that could happen, to ‘has’ happened to a large degree.
The media is controlled, Fox media
is a propaganda arm of the Republicans owned by Murdoch.
Congress is owned by the donors and nothing of significance has been passed in a decade except
a tax break for the wealthy.
The Justice Department right up to the Supeme Court has been corrupted.
Your sarcasm is outstanding.
You own a small business, aspire to more stuff, and haven't read a book in 25 years?
It has already occurred my good man, you are too late.
33³⅔
As an American, Orban's tactics sound quite familiar.
Its like when Obama forced Obamacare on US citizens!
@@5rings16 yes, exactly. Healthcare for Americans that doesn't bankrupt them. What was he thinking? So fascist!
@@japanjt Maybe these Americans can stop being obese and not expect a cadillac plan when they have no money.
So have we become complacent sheep who happily let wolves ''protect“ us now?
Anyone who followed the global investigative work of journalists and their findings set out for all to see in the PANAMA PAPERS would have realised, how our 40+ generation allowed an 'alternative' web of individuals and their Mafias, who had grown incredibly wealthy through ill-gotten gains, to run countries.
Some brave investigative journos, who have been trying to shake us awake for at least six years years, died for this cause or are hounded: Maltese Caruana Galizia on the hot trail of corruption was blown up in her car 2017.
Czech Jan Kuciak on a similar mission was murdered 2018.
British Carole Cadwalladr of The Guardian investigating the trail of money and influence behind the engineering of Brexit has been attacked by Aaron Banks for years.
To name a few.
''Thankfully, we live in peaceful times'', said my German friend in 2018.
''Don't be too sure. It only takes one crazy individual or some bug to bring Mankind to its knees''. Little did I expect both at the same time.
Mr Putin, immensely qualified as a VOLUNTARY KGB guy, is not the only one who knows how to flatter, buy, bribe or bully corruptible or scared politicians and bend them to his will. Or, if he pleases, kill.
The now incredibly unbalanced distribution of wealth, the daylight robbery of world resources by oligarchs and their network of global autocrat-plutocrats buddies in the west, who think of themselves in elitist terms as being naturally entitled to inestimable wealth and clout, and who own a raft of different nationalities and bunker-palaces, warship-like yachts and planes by which they speedily change homes and continents, must be an unprecedented first in history.
Former exploitative despots, kings and tsars, who also couldn't care less about their long-suffering and exploited peoples, pale almost into insignificance. And not all of them had their lives foreshortened.
The Messrs. Mercers and Kochs et al. within GOP through obscene Super PACS finance the election campaign of a Trumpian horse to pull their cart and their 'divide and rule' tactic via their underlings forcing Brexit.
Putin's oligarch gang pay him, their capo dei capi, 'Schutzgeld' in return for their grab and run ransacking of the nation's resources appear as a sophisticated version of the hierarchies and tactics of mean mafias and hellish motorcycle gangs the world over.
Ultra-rightwing groups and so called parties in Europe in hope or receipt of some of the loot are no more than eager handmaidens to those oligarchs, klepto-, plutocrats benefitting from some despot.
Through their networks they direct force down to the very lowest in their ranks, some brutish thugs like the Wagner group and those leading the attempt to storm the Capitol or the Bundestag, copy book actions of Hitler's bandits burning the Reichstag.
They try to tear democracies and unions apart or, at the very least, weaken them in their quest for dominance and never enough wealth. They throw huge amounts of cash into the mind-twisting operations of THEIR social media machines.
Herr Goebbels would have been pleased at such instruments: the Bannons, Trumps, AfD, Farages, LePens...
Mr Putin's lies copy Goebbel's:
"A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth"
''Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty“.
Even though Putin seemingly succeeds in brainwashing older Russians, much like Hitler, he by his own doing clearly has enough to be scared off.
The likes of him do not care one jot for ordinary people, as those are only useful as serving to maintain their ultra-wealthy life-styles. 'The people' are always offered just sufficient Bread and Games (football clubs, Olympic games, Circus Maximus) to keep them quiet enough to avoid revolt.
They seek out corruptible figure heads to pull crowds. Trump. Questionable are the allegiances of present and past heads of state. Johnson. Schröder.
So. A few scared old men, fearful of losing status and position and often with twisted and over-inflated Egos or mad visions and fearful of a democratically empowered people try to prove their (waning?) 'might' by hitting out at anyone not bending to their will.
And drag Mankind into an all out war?
At this junction of history there seems to be more at stake than defending just Ukraine's freedom. There is something fundamentally rotten in the State of oh so perfect democracies.
At Christmas, darned premonition, I presented Prof. Timothy Snyder's Nora Krug German version ON TYRANNY to my partner's 25yr old politically engaged German son with a letter of apology: that our (German 1957) generation has made such a mess of things by letting guys like Trump and Putin and their criminal Neonazi gangs get away with it, and that I hoped, like every generation hopes, his generation would make a better job of the world.
For us it now remains to vote, join peace demos and provide homes for bombed out Ukrainians forced to flee and other support. As my 9 yr old Pomeranian Mother and her family had to flee their home in 1944. My unknown German grandfathers, one a smallholder, the other a carpenter, left more than just their rotting boots in Stalingrad and the Kosovo. Rightfully, perhaps. „Let this never happen again“, our German teacher admonished. There is now a thin line between trying to be peace-keeper and/or defender.
We wrote to German vice chancelor Habeck pleading to get off Russian gas and introduce rationing.
Our gas heating is turned to minimum and bikes replace the car even more. The roof supports a 17 kw PV installation in 2011.
Voluntary - at this stage- rationing is a very small price to pay in fighting a bunch of greedy well dressed thugs ransacking the planets resources and robbing everyone to maintain their well over the top life styles.
Ukranians are dying for this.
Incredible summary of the truth. Remarkable and tragic.
Agreed, corruption destroys democracy and promotes socio-economic inequality and injustice.
Irrational EMOTIONALISM will TRUMP rational logic far too many times these days.
You have said so many truths here. If you haven't already, please read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT. It will explain so many things! ON TYRANNY by Timothy Snyder is an excellent volume. Stephen Kinzer describes so many pertinent things in his books. Things took a strong turn under the Dulles Brothers as described in his book. Read it if you haven't already. Stay safe.
Obama's first term was SO significant in that his funding to run came from MILLIONS of Americans putting in a dollar rather than a corporation putting in a million. A sad state when individuals forget they have power as a herd.
The response of 'the world' to invasions is strongly dictated by the race and religion of the invaded. As long as ppl don't see common humanity the powerful will easily be able to divide and weaken. For example, if Putin came out and said he is defending 'white culture' then it would break the resolve of the US and much of the West to oppose Putin's actions. Because many ppl are looking for a strongman to restore the old order.
Brilliant and she has pointed out so many “obvious” things that have totally escaped my attention, I am humbled by her knowledge and insight.
Shes right. Honestly, you can take away all of the national identifiers and bring it to basics. There are people who run governments that want to control others and take their things, and there are people who aren't so inclined. For your average person, the people who make economies run, build infrastructure and weapons, make food, those people like the latter. It means that generally speaking, people like democracy more than autocracy. That is misleading, because autocracies have every advantage. They can kill without their people having any recourse, they can invade without their people refusing to support them, and they can realistically do whatever they want until another country or countries stands up to them. It's not even that black and white. The real world naturally favors strength, cunning, and social proclivity. From ancient times until now. What needs to happen is for individual people to realize that they do have the power to create and maintain governments that are congenial to the needs and wants of peaceful productive people.
What both broken democracies and autocracies fear is individual people realizing they have the power to remain moderate, and unite to support the morally sound laws and practices that their power is derived from. Period.
Hawaii state USA is an example of this. Old boys club American Japanese passive aggression. Hawaii is inclined to take from its people. Not business friendly. Sell your business and property because the 'democratic' system there is corrupt.
Autocracies have the early advantage. USA founded in 1776, Russian Federation founded in early 1990's. Wow I guess the US is slow to start lol. Or maybe you left out how corrupt the professional class is in the US. We had had the opioid epidemic because companies have to make money. Why haven't doctors been frog marched. Or if you consider what could only be called the grand shitting of the bed that was the launch of American 5G and the dreamliner by boeing. Both are junk, but because the children of the elite designed them, we villainize China for their excellence. If we get out own professionals and their autocratic professional associations under control, maybe something can be done. Personally, I have come to realize that ability for professionals to pillage their society is what our leaders mean by freedom. They are sick egoists.
Spot on. The world will always have narcissistic oppressors throughout our systems, institutions, and social structures. A strong education system and access to affordable healthcare, including mental health, would allow folks to feel more empowered to debate and understand legislation and the process. When this exists thoughtful morally sound laws will resonate as opposed to knee-jerk sloppy legislation. When the public is deprived of basic needs people fall into despair and will go for the quick fix and easy way out, that's when folks are especially vulnerable to autocrats locally, statewide, and federal. We focused so long on improving our cities we ignored the despair & resentment festering in rural America and despots have seized and exploited their suffering.
Anne Applebaum is an idiot. She's anti Viktor Orban, who has a popularity rating Western leaders can only dream of, because: He doesn't want his nation flooded with fighting-age Muslim males? He doesn't want Hungarian children taught about the joys of anal sex in the third grade? He doesn't want to ruin his relationship with Putin and the far more powerful Russia where he gets 80% of his natural gas?
Yeah, it's a crying shame that the Hungarians don't have a great leader like the Americans have in Joe Biden.
Well said OP. Maybe more of us need to read ‘Yertle the Turtle’ to our kids.
Love Anne’s book, Twilight of Democracy. Absolutely a must read.
Yes it is. I am currently reading it a second time.
I am reading that now. ;)
Thank you for sharing that information about her book...I am reading six books at once and I have to read faster!🤭
@@elaineburnett5230 ha-ha, as I sit here with 6 next to me too! Anne's other book which just arrived yesterday is called, "Red Famine", Stalin's war on Ukraine. Right timing for this one too. (Copyright 2017).
Yes! Along with that volume, please read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT.
It shows Trump's lust to be an absolute autocrat which was supported by Bill Barr's concept of the UNITARY EXECUTIVE. The unitary presidency. Barr is Catholic and a member of OPUS DEI. I suspect that Ginny Thomas is also a member. If so, did Ginny Thomas or Bill Barr give Trump the name of Amy Coney Barrett to nominate for Supreme Court Justice? Get that book because it reveals how strongly OPUS DEI influenced the Trump administration.
Thank you for this excellent interview. I always appreciate your programme and look forward to reading Ann Appelbaum’s book Twilight of Democracy.
Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you!
Love your show. I can always count on you to bring the truth, as it is without bias.
Truth? My god, the enormity of the blind spot here is incredible. A US historian bemoaning autocracies, when her country has supported them for decades.
@@dipthongthathongthongthong9691 spoken like a true history professor who knows little about today and less about tomorrow
@@duibuqii 👍🏻
@@dipthongthathongthongthong9691 So.. you’re taking issue with criticizing autocracy? Or “what abouting” a separate issue that they didn’t discuss?
Seemed the topic at hand was covered in depth here.
@@selloutsam. No. I'm not taking issue with criticizing autocracy.
Do you know the origins of "whataboutery"? When Britain would decry the attacks by the IRA, the IRA would say to them, "we've done this because you have been killing us for decades!" And the Brits would dismiss them as "changing the subject" and tell them that the topic is "IRA bombings."
Your "whatabout" charge falls flat. We are talking HISTORICAL CONTEXT. We're talking about faux outrage over the tolerance of acts committed by autocrats... acts that reads like the CIA's playbook. Surely you can
grasp how disingenuous this woman is.
Brilliant answers to pertinent questions. That's why I'm here!
Since the 1990s? Who helped install Augusto Pinochet and the Shah of Iran and countless others? As if Autocrats just started 30 years ago...
She's right and if we don't make a stand now with Ukraine, autocracies will prevail. Democracies have been regressing on the planet in the last few years: freedoms have gone down, not up
So now is the time for us to stand up! We need to defend democracy so it can defend us!
History shows just how fragile democracies are.
Yes, we must support the current thing! And then the next one! Lol, Ukraine is also a corrupt autocracy and always has been. Their national hero was a literal Nazi supporter during WW2. And its chilling to hear Applebaum talk about defending liberalism with military means... because people like Orban are winning elections. Wow. She's just pissed that some European countries are refusing mass migration. I think those policies are dumb for America, a country built by immigration. But she and other liberal American elites need to mind their own business and stop pushing mass migration onto EU countries, it's sick.
Nothing new under the sun. Ukraine cant win militarily.
This is one of the most cohesive and important discussions on our current global situation I've ever heard. Thank you!
Well done, Anne !!
She nailed it.
It's funny to me as children we learn that it's the good guys who are supposed to be the ones that stick together and help one another, while the bullies don't know how to cooperate.
Yet in reality it turns out the "good" side decided for the last 30+ years that only making money has value, and haven't been willing to protect, enhance, or fund the systems and institutions that keep democracy in good health, and now it might be too late as the Hungarian model already seems in place in the US and others as dark money and organized cheating and misinformation already has majority control of the populace.
When Lindsey Graham yaps about dark money, doesn't he know WE all know he is OWNED by someone!
Exceptional interview! 👏 👍
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Fantastic interview. I wish there were many people such as she who would be daily participants in the MSM.
This should be compulsory viewing for everyone living in a democracy and yes I realise that sounds like a contradiction.
She's a fascist.
Why not. If australia can force you to vote why not force people to understand they need to protect themselves
Anne Applebaum lied about Hunter Biden's laptop in The Atlantic Column stating it's RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION. When asked yesterday why she lied she said "I didn't THINK it was pertinent to the election". ❤️🙏
Wow, Ms. Applebaum is excellent. Thank you for this illuminating segment.
This is excellent! One thing
though, that the average person listening may not understand, is the word “autocracy”. In the past we used to call them dictatorships, and that’s a term most people are familiar with.
@Susan Scholl
Get A Life.
I actually met some folks who thought it might be a sort of compliment! It was infuriating!
I get some degree of relief from the many smart comments here. I've had my hair on fire since 2015 and too many people across the political spectrum are under informed,disinformed or concerned only with narrow interests. One more term of the orange one would have sealed our fate. We came dangerously close to losing most of our allies and becoming the biggest puppet government of Putin,while most are still looking at partisanship as they would a football game.
We need to accept reality and keep fiction in its proper place! The urgency to defend democracy all over the world is being met in Ukraine by their resistance to Putin's autocratic designs! Slava Ukraine.
Wow! I agree with everything you have said here. And you have said so much that is spot on. Trump is an ardent student and asset of Putin. If COVID-19 hadn't come along, Trump would still be president and our democracy would already be dead. And Russia would already have absorbed Ukraine. Even if Trump had done only a third of what he should have done in response to the pandemic, he would still be president. Arm yourself with a clear and comprehensive view from the top. Please read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT. It will explain so much. And read the other books by Craig Unger.
You are right. There is such a complacency. A belief that somehow trump couldn't be able to steal an election, and go full Dictator. A belief that somehow some entity would step in and stop it.
@@elaineburnett5230 Heroyam Slava 🇺🇦
E Pluribus Unum 🇺🇸
Hungarian situation looks so much like India
Precious! What a thinker she is! Thank you Anna Applebaum for a wake-up call.
Another wonderful informative and thought provoking interview. Thanks again and again for what you all do so well.
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I like what she says, but from the start if you listen to her definition of modern autocracy with USA in mind all points check in. Which is why her definition imo is so good.
Love Anne's level headedness and straight forward way of speaking. There's no gray area or doubt about her ideas and she communicates them very effectively.
She would have been perfectly comfortable on Hitler's General Staff.
Ms. Applebaum and Dr. Timothy Snyder are both sounding the same alarm. Hopefully they will be heard loud and clear.
Could you imagine if the US spent 20 billion a year on fusion research for the last 25 years - we would have fusion, and cleaner air, and no dependency on dictator run oil producing countries. Instead about 500 - 700 billion per year is spent on the military. Lyndon B. Johnson worried about the power of the American military industrial complex for good reason.
That was Eisenhower, in his famous farewell address: "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." Of course Ike was a warmongering fundamentalist Christian himself.
And, Eisenhower warned us on his way out the door.
Eisenhower, not LBJ. LBJ loved the military complex, the dude owned Haliburton and got us into Viet Nam!
I have seen her on TV and have her bookTwlight of Democracy. Amazing writer
"Wealth didn't make them abide by international law"
Well no shit..
And that has worked so well with our own political leaders?
Well it is now obvious but still it needs to be said!
Excellent interview, with ideas that are (sadly) spot on. I appreciate her many insights and challenging comments. What I also find interesting is this, as I scrolled through so many of the comments here: they are INTELLIGENT, not full of name calling and derision as I find on some other videos and sites. Intelligent, thoughtful and empathetic discourse like this encourages me and brings me hope!
Thank you, Amanpour & Co, for consistently providing excellent content!
Bowling Alone in America is the actual trendline and it is the trendline the ruling class chose to engineer through several mutually reinforcing strategies, including the welfare state, controlled media, mass immigration, deindustrialization, imperial adventurism, financialization of the economy, student loan debt servitude. Only certain types of "grassroots" activities are permitted in America, those that do not threaten the ruling class--and preferably weaken the rules in certain useful ways (transgenderism, for example, and the groomer movement). There is nothing empathetic about the American ruling class, least of all its vast global lie machine extending from public schools to universities to hollywood, the media, the gov't PR systems, weaponized NGOs, and, of course, the vicious, propaganda media system. Tolerance is now extinct, killed by what Karl Popper long ago called the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance causes the extinction of tolerance. Tolerance killed the Czar, killed Weimar, and recently killed America. America's ruling class no longer permits its members the liberty to define the term "woman." They have utterly corrupted the socio-cognitive ecology of the West. It is worse than Orwell or Huxley or Zamyatin foresaw.
Read the book BLOWOUT by Rachel Maddow. It confirms what Anne has stated here about the compelling power of fossil fuels.
And read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT.
These two books will explain so much.
@@StellarFella Hilarious insanity. This liar affirms this other liar's book--buy now!
@@kreek22 - Not 'hilarious' at all. The new gas prices are anything but.
@@StellarFella there are tens of thousands of trolls ,working to destabilize America, saudis,iran,china,n.korea. Not to mention 79 million idiots in America that voted for dump. Spread the word,vote for democracy.
Gini was let out of the bottle when 800,000 rawandans died through ethnic cleansing in the early nineties and that was a precursor to the balkans. In action will result in free
License always! I disagree with Anne that autocrats are dangerous but this philosophy of not reacting to genocide has brought the world to this point.
Let's ask Anne where Madeline Albright was when the call for intervention in Rwanda was sounded.
That last bit, that those who reside in a country must, absolutely, get involved in civic activities/duties concerning their country, in order to hold politicians (and, consequently, the entire political system) accountable, is democracy at the grassroots level, i.e. the very foundation of a healthy, and mature democracy.
Bowling Alone in America is the actual trendline and it is the trendline the ruling class chose to engineer through several mutually reinforcing strategies, including the welfare state, controlled media, mass immigration, deindustrialization, imperial adventurism, financialization of the economy, student loan debt servitude. Only certain types of "grassroots" activities are permitted in America, those that do not threaten the ruling class--and preferably weaken the rules in certain useful ways (transgenderism, for example).
@@kreek22 I don't think you understand what "civic activities/duties" are (nor "democracy at the grassroots level", or "a healthy, and mature democracy")!!
@@mariusmatei2946 Sure I do. According to Applebaum, each of these is a suicide pact.
@@kreek22 I don't think you listened (Carefully) to the interview, either!!
@@mariusmatei2946 These two merit no attention. They are members of the official cabal of lying scum who run the United States of America.
Amanpour is not a journalist, she is a liar. Applebaum is not an historian, she is a liar.
They are worse than Putinists, they are Stalinists.
Congress needs to reinstate of the FDA policy of media balance being olbigatory to all TV and Radio news broadcasts.
Amanpour training reporting years inBosnia tech her what is right , who is victim . Great asset for Humanity . Thanks Christiane , great work.
You don't miss your water 'til your well runs dry"
Bottom line is it's time to be active and to move rapidly away from fossil fuels to sustainable green energy which also hurts autocracies.
I appreciate this program and love to hear the intelligent discussion and people.
Wow!! One on THE BEST INTERVIEWS from PBS I have watched in years. Thank you
Its a duty of every human being on this planet to fight autocratic rejimes.
so capitalism is really to blame for rise of the autocracy: by funding it, by letting money make decisions in support of autocrats
That is true, in a way, the rot sets in I believe when government is conflated with business. We hear politicians speak of deficits, and of running countries like a business, but government is NOT like a business: its job is to advocate and protect the public good, not make a profit or balance the books. The other point of corruption is corporate funding of political candidates and lack of limits to political donations. Capitalism unchecked is a disaster, it can work well but it needs to be regulated so control its excesses and its focus on profit to the detriment of the public good.
No. Socialism is really to blame for autocracy. The Socialists are autocrats. Hitler Stalin Lenin Ho Chi Minh Pol Pot Mao ETC ETC. Need I go on? Capitalism produces extreme wealth for those who create it.
Hell, the Palestinians are socialists! True
OK I see how this works. Basically, she’s saying these people use the same play book as Trumpkin & the GOP have done!! I knew T wasn’t smart enough to come up with that model on his own. Great story!! This is scary stuff! I think Americans need to stop this immediately! Who new? I wish we were told all this sooner. This woman is absolutely correct! Talk about a light- bulb moment? She’s fabulous!
Trump never forced any law on us, like say Obamacare was forced on us!!
Anne knows best
Off to find a video on Hungary 🇭🇺 Historical politics.
Check out her book, “The Twilight of Democracy.” It goes into detail about Hungary (and Poland)
@@dr.g3860 thanks 😊 I will
@@dr.g3860 it’s in audible awesome
A lot will unfold from putins fall.
Describes the Trump Administration exactly. Also Xi, Putin, Kim, Netenyahu and many more who collude.
...Trump did not collide. Are you still in the bubble?
It has been interesting to see people shift allegiance from agreed facts and ideals. Instead they redirect their faith to the arbitrary whims of one domineering individual. Mistaking bullying for strength
Yet Americans worship the wealthy in the US, not seeing the same as in Russia and elsewhere. Just disguised & marketed better.
Congress works for Wall Street, not the American people.
Makes one start to worry about what we're seeing happen in this country with some in the repuklican party. Giving the rich all the tax breaks and starving out the middle man and poor. Eliminate the resistance.
@@micheleconner5083 I think it’s coming to light just in time.
I have my UA-cam queued up for Amanpour & Co. It helps me know there are smart, thoughtful participants in our world issues who have a close and level eye on what's going on. It's easy to get overwhelmed these days; I appreciate the straightforward deep dives into these complicated issues by the brightest members of our free societies.
Anne and Radek are both awesome - a genuinely intellectually brilliant pair and both have incredible foresight.
I think the struggle is largely internal as oligarchy is ascendent. Autocracy is the natural order of oligarchy. Putin was installed to be a Russian Pinochet is a case in point. The trajectory of the GOP and Tories is another. Of the two the Tories are more kleptocratic than overtly authoritarian but authoritarianism is inherent in kleptocracy. Unless the people fight for their very republics, they will lose them.
I had been waiting to get some more insight in this subject, surprised no documentary has been done on Orban's kleptocracy yet.
l am loving all your great presentation. Barbara you are on point
GREAT interview. Thank You!
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Every time I hear all of this I agree. But the US has done the same in the Middle East and south America. We in the states have set the example. It is not that the west refuses to take it seriously but our laws allow us to do the same with a few more middle men to deflect the attention and the blame. It is a matter of self reflection. Calling out war crimes, one might as well turn around and look in the mirror, We trade with autocracies because we want the money and the stuff. This goes back to the Reagan administration. Trickle down theory. Aggression trickles all over the place. Has anyone read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man???
Bingo! Applebaum bemoans the lack of action from democracies. She's no idiot. She knows the US has painted itself into corner on this topic. It has publicly stated it will not be subject to international criminal law and proceedings at The Hague. US leaders know when they point a finger at Putin or whoever, they have three pointing right back at them. The gall of this women lecturing us about "attacking/undermining democracies" and "flouting international law" and "grotesques examples" of invasion, sitting in the US the country that destroyed Iraq and violated UN Res 1973 in Libya. Why didn't the US support the extradition of Pinochet to stand trial for war crimes?
6 years after their inception Eisenhower commissions the CIA for the removal of the democratically elected leader of Iran (Operation “Ajax” 1953) Eisenhower commissions the CIA for the removal of the democratically elected leader of Guatemala(Operation PBSucess 1954)... President Obama commissions CIA title 50 regime change, proxy war in Syria. (Operation “Timber Sycamore” 2012-2017)
Things started going the wrong direction during the Eisenhower years. Under the Dulles Brothers who were Wall Street lawyers representing corporate interests from their respective new positions as Secretary of State and Director of the CIA. Get the book on this by Stephen Kinzer.
Autocracy is too inclusive a term. Putin's regime is a plutothugocracy.
Sounds like countries saw corporations violate any and all human rights based norms and decided they could too.
Ann wrote Gulag and gave interview that's on UA-cam. Very deep understanding of Autocratic formations.
I hope no one sees these views as an April Fools joke.
The point about autocracy being empowered by the production of fossil fuels and undermining democratic norms is clearly true. Great interview!
Yes agreed. Just like the movie, there will be blood. Faraday invented the axial flux motor in the 18 hundreds, the first car was electric, but it was way easier to dig a hole in the ground, and here we are.
Get the book BLOWOUT by Rachel Maddow.
Also read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT
It will explain so much.
Rise of Autocracies worldwide is worrying. Modi has used similar Model to stifle democracy in India.
This is really informative - and quite terrifying.
The troubling thing is I wonder how many in the US and Europe really do want to defend liberal democracy? Real wages for many have stagnated, as the cost of living rises, employment for many is uncertain, and those who promise action rather than words, and a return to a "golden age" start to sound attractive. If we can't give people hope, I suspect the future is bleak.
I love listening to Anne Applebaum
She's utterly clear ,precise and really knows what she's talking about. She speaks with a passion about the subject like so few historians of her calibre.
"Autocracies Don’t Believe In Rules or Norms" most poor people also they have never seen "Rules and Norms" work in their favor.
A simple way that I try to maintain integrity: I buy LESS; I buy USED, and I watch who I'm buying FROM.
Limited terms for Governor’s , Mayors, Senators, Representatives, our 🇺🇸 President’s have LIMITED TERMS
Definitely not a feel good interview . First time I've heard Hungary's Orlan presented so succinctly. 😳. The problem of how a minority political group stays in power and dominates the county is well explained here. Her stating that CPAC and Tucker Carlson are holding there conferences Budapest, Hungary is alarming. The extreme conglomeration of American media is frightening in this environment.
Anyone who doubts that capitalism needs regulation need only look to Hungary. Without regulation, capitalism leads to autocracy.
Simplified..hungary still foots on soviet structures mentally and in the state
"Autocracy INC"..reminds me of Maxwell Smart's CHAOS 🤯
Brilliant. Follow her in The Atlantic, too!
yes, we have witnessed that in 70 years of US war and violence.
"assaults on their own people as we've seen in Venezuela and Burma .. " and Seattle and Minneapolis and Kenosha and zuccotti park and St. Louis and Ferguson .. my fingers have gotten tired ..
"Movies" have been conditioning us to the idea of accepting autocracy as fate for a long time.
Great interview! Very educational!
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So technically the GOP in the US is using same Hungarian playbook. This is so dangerous.
Excellent!
Excellent concise worldly reviewer...👏👏☘
F-ing depressing. Feels like democracies are at a tipping point.
Highly recommend Twilight of democracy released not too long ago
Yes! Excellent! Please read the latest book by Craig Unger. AMERICAN KOMPROMAT.
Wow! This book will explain so many things! Get it!
Of course. We need to work together. Share weapons let's see this through
I am wondering if autocracies are a fallout from our degrading ecosystem. When the resources and energies are becoming scarce , autocrats can safeguard a good supply for their friends and allies. The little people can starve and suffer ,for all they care. Anyway the less people are around, the more they can have for themselves. It is a matter of ego and power, as well as survival of the fittest mentality.
All of this is kind of a sickness, a cancer, and it will be hard to eradicate.
Excellent piece, thank you so much! 🙌 👍
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We didn't do shit when Saudi Arabia Did it
"Democracy isn't like running water, that will always be there when you turn the tap." Truer words were never spoken. I wonder if Anne Applebaum has seen the talk Richard Dreyfuss gave on the Bill Maher show in (I think) 2004 (or maybe 2006) about the need to teach civics in our high schools? Because we have NOT been teaching the practices (but also the visionary power) of democracy, the authoritarian alternative has had the intellectual "playing field" to itself! Here's the link Richard Dreyfuss's remarks (about 4 min long) ua-cam.com/video/JodajZV0itM/v-deo.html
Doubt it would help. It would more likely make it easier for the potential autocrats of the future to more skillfully use the law for their end goals. Until the rule of law followers are no longer dependent on the criminally inclined of the world we will have problems.
Excellent analysis. A lot to think about.
Insightful….thanks Anne Applebaum.