I have a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10 and a Kahles K16i. I got the Razor first and the K16i second. I thought my K16i was broken at first because it kept giving me double vision at 1x. Working with it a bit more, it's less of a problem on the rifle. However, I will say the Razor has a much more natural 1x that my brain more easily accepts without giving me double vision. I do notice that 2x compared between the two optics goes firmly to the Kahles K16i. Wow. The glass is so much clearer. At first I thought the scope ring was thinner looking through the K16i, but then I realized I had a flip cap on the Razor but not the K16i. With the flip caps removed, the Razor has a slightly thinner scope ring. I'm garbage with a rifle, but I really love the SM1 reticle. Maybe my taste will change as I learn more. We'll see. Swapping back and forth between either LPVO and a Aimpoint T2 it really becomes clear that I'm wasting a lot of time with the LPVO getting on the optic. Red dots are incredibly forgiving and fast, but I really miss that vertical line below the dot to help with holds. It's still early days for me, but I think I prefer the K16i over the Razor due to the optical clarity, reticle design, and reduced weight. I appreciate that you highlighted the battery issue. I'll have to see if it's an issue for me at the range this weekend.
@@ridnthawave708 I did not notice a problem with the battery powered illumination. I used it with 300 blackout supersonic black hills ttsx rounds. It functioned flawlessly. I did take a moment to remove the battery cover and inspect the contacts. C_DOES is correct. It's a single contact system, though my battery was the normal silver color, not the weird plastic blue I saw in his video - not sure what was up with that. No, single point contact isn't great, but the battery fit was extremely tight and if the battery does fail I would still have the etched reticle. I also really like the fact that it comes with a second battery hidden under the elevation turret cap. Granted, this is a weanie paper shooting range trip experience. I put maybe 25 rounds through the rifle. I'm not running thousands of rounds and I have no idea what I'm doing, so take my feedback with a grain of salt. Personally, I prefer the k16i over the razor gen 3. Lighter. Clearer. That round ring reticle is awesome, especially up close. Keep in mind, I *never* shoot past 100 yards. My range doesn't have anything longer than that. It's all dense trees around here in TN. If you regularly shoot past 100 yards you might really prefer the Razor, I don't know. For my intended uses (hunting deer under 100 yards and home defense), I really really dig the k16i. I used to keep an aimpoint t2 on this rifle for home defense before I bought the k16i. I like the donut of death on the k16i so much I haven't put the aimpoint back on, even though I have both the aimpoint and the k16i on qd mounts and it would only take a minute. In my non-scientific, larping in my mom's basement tests with my Mantis Blackbeard laser trainer, I find the donut to be really intuitive for close range targets. I feel like my hit percentage increased due to the reticle alone. It makes me wonder if I should try an Eotech. No, the k16i isn't as forgiving as a red dot, but I think I still prefer it. Time and experience may change my opinion. I reserve the right to change my mind.
I own five Kahles LPVOs three K16is and two K18is. No battery compartment problem whatsoever. I like the SI1 reticle better over the SM1 reticle in thr K16is though. Have Kahles scopes with both reticles.
I agree with you. I got a K16i and Vortex PST Gen-II 1-6 to compare, both brand new. The only things the K16i does better are weight and optical clarity, but not worth the much higher price tag imo. I didn't have the battery issues, possibly because mine was very new. Ended up selling my K16i, mainly due to their limited warranty. No regrets.
That CQB performance is truly mind-blowing. Still, I don't think the value is there for $2000 especially considering the battery compartment design flaw. Just curious, have you gotten your hands on any Trijicon Accupoints?
I'd say if you can live with that little tweak it's pretty much on point, but it is pretty sad and embarrassing that the battery compartment is about the same standards as my childhood GBA :/
Thankfully the battery compartment is a super easy fix for Kahles. You could prob put a little piece of rubber or foam in there and hack it to what it should be (but I realize it shouldn't be necessary)
Well, it was only taken off my "Go-To Rifle" for the review. But my P4Xi is on my go to still. However there are some good options for less money that would be equally at home there.
No issues with battery on my K16i on an LWRC 6.8SPC. Got my scope many years ago for $1800. Guess it’s all relative but $2K for a scope is not super expensive. It’s the small things with optics that differentiate a $1K scope from a $2K scope. Getting that extra 10 to 20% performance may not be important to everyone. I have a few rifle setups that are in the $10K range and on those I run Minox and Zero Compromise.
The Gen III 1-10? Without getting my hands on it. I would go that. Its claimed to be only 21 oz (still heavy, but think of what your getting) and I reckon the extra 4x goes a Long way.
I just joined, however i am not seeing it up for sale. I see other optics you have for sale, nikon, leupold, sparc, facog.... just not seeing the kahles. I am new to patreon and not to familiar how to navigate it so maybe its my error.
Very easy to get lost in the reticle on hold overs for this reticle. If they just added numbers next to the stadia lines it would be better and I’d probably still own the scope
A few things here. First the battery design isn’t a big deal because just like the Elcan Specter DR it has an etched reticle. So that’s not a deal breaker at all. Sorry you believe it is. Next I have owned a Razor, Schmidt Bender short dot dual cc and this k16 optic and I have to say the Razor comes in dead last. The glass on the Kahles is superior than the Razor and SB. It just is. I also like the SM1 reticle over the reticles on the SB and Razor. Look the SB is a $5600 LPVO the Kahles is $2199 and the Razor is like $1099. There are levels to the optic game. Honestly the SB is more like a $2900 optic and the Kahles is like an $1800 optic and the Razor is a $799 optic. Again this is how I value them after thousands of rounds behind them and being an owner of all 3. I will say NF 1-8x ATACR is also another option but unfortunately NF had quality control issues. Anyway thanks for the vid.
Great honest review!! I agree with you on that battery compartment. I would be very upset by that and get something else. There are other optics with as good of quality that do t have those problems for the same price
Couldn’t you just put a rubber or foam piece in the cap so I doesn’t have that issue?? To each their own but I wouldn’t let that little of a problem keep me from buying it. Especially when you can get them for 1500 on GAFS
What a ridiculous fixation on a minor issue with an obnoxiously easy fix. 2 years later this is still the best 1-6x out there with alpha glass and one of the best apparent FOV at 1x with the best cqb reticle, a nuclear bright circle dot. Oh and it's also one of the lightest. Should battery compartment be fixed for 2k? Absolutely. But to dismiss it all together when it's top tier everywhere else AND the fix is so easy is just dogmatic nonsense.
No judgement but…you don’t own a $2000 rifle? I guess I’m surprised because you review a lot of nice scopes I just figured you owned at least 1 high end AR
I have a Vortex Razor Gen III 1-10 and a Kahles K16i. I got the Razor first and the K16i second. I thought my K16i was broken at first because it kept giving me double vision at 1x. Working with it a bit more, it's less of a problem on the rifle. However, I will say the Razor has a much more natural 1x that my brain more easily accepts without giving me double vision. I do notice that 2x compared between the two optics goes firmly to the Kahles K16i. Wow. The glass is so much clearer. At first I thought the scope ring was thinner looking through the K16i, but then I realized I had a flip cap on the Razor but not the K16i. With the flip caps removed, the Razor has a slightly thinner scope ring. I'm garbage with a rifle, but I really love the SM1 reticle. Maybe my taste will change as I learn more. We'll see. Swapping back and forth between either LPVO and a Aimpoint T2 it really becomes clear that I'm wasting a lot of time with the LPVO getting on the optic. Red dots are incredibly forgiving and fast, but I really miss that vertical line below the dot to help with holds. It's still early days for me, but I think I prefer the K16i over the Razor due to the optical clarity, reticle design, and reduced weight. I appreciate that you highlighted the battery issue. I'll have to see if it's an issue for me at the range this weekend.
I’m looking at purchasing one here shortly. After your trip to the range, I’m curious to know your thoughts?
@@ridnthawave708 I did not notice a problem with the battery powered illumination. I used it with 300 blackout supersonic black hills ttsx rounds. It functioned flawlessly. I did take a moment to remove the battery cover and inspect the contacts. C_DOES is correct. It's a single contact system, though my battery was the normal silver color, not the weird plastic blue I saw in his video - not sure what was up with that. No, single point contact isn't great, but the battery fit was extremely tight and if the battery does fail I would still have the etched reticle. I also really like the fact that it comes with a second battery hidden under the elevation turret cap. Granted, this is a weanie paper shooting range trip experience. I put maybe 25 rounds through the rifle. I'm not running thousands of rounds and I have no idea what I'm doing, so take my feedback with a grain of salt. Personally, I prefer the k16i over the razor gen 3. Lighter. Clearer. That round ring reticle is awesome, especially up close. Keep in mind, I *never* shoot past 100 yards. My range doesn't have anything longer than that. It's all dense trees around here in TN. If you regularly shoot past 100 yards you might really prefer the Razor, I don't know. For my intended uses (hunting deer under 100 yards and home defense), I really really dig the k16i. I used to keep an aimpoint t2 on this rifle for home defense before I bought the k16i. I like the donut of death on the k16i so much I haven't put the aimpoint back on, even though I have both the aimpoint and the k16i on qd mounts and it would only take a minute. In my non-scientific, larping in my mom's basement tests with my Mantis Blackbeard laser trainer, I find the donut to be really intuitive for close range targets. I feel like my hit percentage increased due to the reticle alone. It makes me wonder if I should try an Eotech. No, the k16i isn't as forgiving as a red dot, but I think I still prefer it. Time and experience may change my opinion. I reserve the right to change my mind.
I sent an email to Kahles asking about the battery compartment, they said it was redesigned for both the K16i and the K18i.
I own five Kahles LPVOs three K16is and two K18is. No battery compartment problem whatsoever.
I like the SI1 reticle better over the SM1 reticle in thr K16is though. Have Kahles scopes with both reticles.
Can you make a video on how to use the zero point on the k16i?
Very interesting. Very informative. Good video. And very interesting optics.
👍 Thanks mate
Great review as always.
Thanks for the excellent content.
Anytime!
Hey! Enjoyed the review again. I know it's another $2000 optic, but do you anticipate being able to get your hands on a Razor Gen III for review?
Seconding this. Wanna hear your opinion about the most hip LPVO (at least for now).
I'd Love to! But I haven't found anyone or place willing to send one over.
I have one and would love to hear/see your take on it. But it’s on my go to rifle. How long would it take? I’m like 50/50 on sending it to you.
@c_does 👆
@@daylightbrightdlb6010 Reach out to me on my Patreon. Its easier for me to communicate that way. To be honest, I have a large backlog currently.
I agree with you. I got a K16i and Vortex PST Gen-II 1-6 to compare, both brand new. The only things the K16i does better are weight and optical clarity, but not worth the much higher price tag imo. I didn't have the battery issues, possibly because mine was very new. Ended up selling my K16i, mainly due to their limited warranty. No regrets.
That is reassuring to hear! I'm glad I didn't lose my mind 😂
I wonder if they ever updated the battery compartment.
My number 1 trusted optics source
Would have liked to see you spend a bit more time in this video talking about the battery cover
C_Does how do you like the sm1 reticle the new 3gr looks strange with the 2 dot.
Thanks!
That CQB performance is truly mind-blowing. Still, I don't think the value is there for $2000 especially considering the battery compartment design flaw.
Just curious, have you gotten your hands on any Trijicon Accupoints?
I'd say if you can live with that little tweak it's pretty much on point, but it is pretty sad and embarrassing that the battery compartment is about the same standards as my childhood GBA :/
😂! I don't mean to laugh, but that was good! It is was less expensive, maybe. But for a price $1k+, it's a hard pill to swallow.
Thankfully the battery compartment is a super easy fix for Kahles. You could prob put a little piece of rubber or foam in there and hack it to what it should be (but I realize it shouldn't be necessary)
How does it optically compare to Gen2 razor 1-6?
Out of all optics, dots, scopes what would u pick as number one if you are running out the door defending your property if things get bad?
Well, it was only taken off my "Go-To Rifle" for the review. But my P4Xi is on my go to still. However there are some good options for less money that would be equally at home there.
Not an answer as far as the optic… but training.
I had this scope on the scar 17 with 0 issues. Moved to more magnification.
No issues with battery on my K16i on an LWRC 6.8SPC. Got my scope many years ago for $1800. Guess it’s all relative but $2K for a scope is not super expensive. It’s the small things with optics that differentiate a $1K scope from a $2K scope. Getting that extra 10 to 20% performance may not be important to everyone. I have a few rifle setups that are in the $10K range and on those I run Minox and Zero Compromise.
Would you say the illumination at high is "red dot" bright like a Holosun or Eotech, or just "daylight bright"?
This or the latest Razor HD ?
The Gen III 1-10? Without getting my hands on it. I would go that. Its claimed to be only 21 oz (still heavy, but think of what your getting) and I reckon the extra 4x goes a Long way.
Great video!
This vs the Steiner p4xi?
Between those 2 only? The P4xi. If only for the price tag.
Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 Ii. L 4-I please
Geez that reticle is on 🔥
So can i buy it since you are not???
Check out my patreon page. I just posted up there
I just joined, however i am not seeing it up for sale. I see other optics you have for sale, nikon, leupold, sparc, facog.... just not seeing the kahles. I am new to patreon and not to familiar how to navigate it so maybe its my error.
@@alvaroeloredo hey AL. I sent you a message there. The K16i was the first item listed. Message me there with any further questions!
Quality review!
Very easy to get lost in the reticle on hold overs for this reticle. If they just added numbers next to the stadia lines it would be better and I’d probably still own the scope
Show us where the battery compartment touched you…lol. Great review but man alive lol.
For 2k there should be absolutely no flaws. I would have to get a refund.
Agreed.
@@CDOES So if this has its flaws, what would you consider to be the best LPVO if not this?
another great one..
Thanks mate
A few things here. First the battery design isn’t a big deal because just like the Elcan Specter DR it has an etched reticle. So that’s not a deal breaker at all. Sorry you believe it is.
Next I have owned a Razor, Schmidt Bender short dot dual cc and this k16 optic and I have to say the Razor comes in dead last. The glass on the Kahles is superior than the Razor and SB. It just is. I also like the SM1 reticle over the reticles on the SB and Razor. Look the SB is a $5600 LPVO the Kahles is $2199 and the Razor is like $1099. There are levels to the optic game. Honestly the SB is more like a $2900 optic and the Kahles is like an $1800 optic and the Razor is a $799 optic. Again this is how I value them after thousands of rounds behind them and being an owner of all 3. I will say NF 1-8x ATACR is also another option but unfortunately NF had quality control issues. Anyway thanks for the vid.
Great honest review!! I agree with you on that battery compartment. I would be very upset by that and get something else. There are other optics with as good of quality that do t have those problems for the same price
Name one pls
agreed
2 Gs. ? Yeah battery compartment looks hokey
Less then stellar.
Couldn’t you just put a rubber or foam piece in the cap so I doesn’t have that issue?? To each their own but I wouldn’t let that little of a problem keep me from buying it. Especially when you can get them for 1500 on GAFS
the razor is much more heavier. an kahles is cheaper here in europe than the razor. so it is a no brainer..
If my math is right, and you were at max magnification, the cessna was about 3.37 miles out
What a ridiculous fixation on a minor issue with an obnoxiously easy fix. 2 years later this is still the best 1-6x out there with alpha glass and one of the best apparent FOV at 1x with the best cqb reticle, a nuclear bright circle dot. Oh and it's also one of the lightest. Should battery compartment be fixed for 2k? Absolutely. But to dismiss it all together when it's top tier everywhere else AND the fix is so easy is just dogmatic nonsense.
Well said
No judgement but…you don’t own a $2000 rifle? I guess I’m surprised because you review a lot of nice scopes I just figured you owned at least 1 high end AR
2 grand is not so much for a good product. bjt this might not be it
I’ll stick with my Razor HD Gen 2 E 1-6 all day every day.
Minimal weight cost for much less money and as nearasmakesnodifference glass quality.
Guess everyone’s eyes are different. Razor glass is a s s compared to top European glass. Besides 1x on razor is so bad you need a red dot too…
It's between this and the Razor 1-6 cause the reticle and brightness.
fml why cant i be rich lol
On a f'ing .22 😂😂😂🪦