It makes sense to me. I love that this is a possible outcome, because it makes me feel my decisions have more weight. This is what my Astarion could have been, but he isn't. He is soft, loving, and on the road to emotional healing. It makes me feel better about my choices, after being sad that he can't be in the sun anymore.
@@GabbyIsFine yeah, you let him give into this dark side of himself. and he is lost. safe him from it, he is doomed to stay a spawn. But he is still himself. Being ascended turns his love to obsession, and his feeling of being free to being power-hungry like casador.
I guess that as a spawn the curse of vampirism hasn't fully taken hold yet...But as an ascendent, he is fully a vampire. True evil. They cannot help themselves. Love does not exist nor does it have place in that curse. The curse twists every positive emotion and corrupts it into nothing but evil and negative. I guess that as a spawn, he can fight it back...but not anymore :( Even if you don't want to set loose a bunch of hungry vamps into the world, any character that is aware of the full lore of vampirism wouldn't allow a single vampire to be more than what Astarion was...he is now truly evil, and more powerful than Cazador. He is more dangerous than the spawns. The spawns at least seem to be able to distinguish between good and evil and fight against their evil emotions granted by the curse. idk if I was clear. But that's what I think happened. Why he changed so much. He didn't only get physical powers, but he is completely and irreversibly cursed now. Ugh. I haven't reached this part of the game yet, and I am already dreading having to make this decision. I am so torn. Set free thousands of spawns that will kill many before they can be stopped, or stop a single vampire stronger than Cazador from arising, who will possibly kill even more people than the loose spawn will...there is just no winning decision here, is there? Just a lesser evil :( I wonder if there is a chance to cure him. Turn him into an elf again...don't answer that question. I want to keep hoping. And I will stop rambling now.
@sunflowerknight no.... no he most likely didn't, he's just acting like a spoilt brat that didn't get his way really, I mean that little cough after saying love sounded like a gag to me
I think he legitimately changed, and I actually don't think he cares. He's basically become Cazador - with a few strings attached. It's why I can't ever ascend him - he just seems fundamentally different, almost like he's possessed by Cazador and Vellioth, honestly.
@@allrequiredfieldsrecently writers at Larian confirmed that he didn't lose his soul or anything, but that his worst sides such as pride have been boosted, he's still him, just less caring I suppose
@@allrequiredfieldsi disagree. in many scenes where he’s being an egotistical asshole, you can hear it in his tone and see it in his eyes that he’s hurt by your rejection & he does still genuinely have love for tav. he just shows it in a completely different way from before. it’s common fact that in the lore of vampires they don’t understand love the way humans do, they think of it more as an “obsession”, so yes astarion still loves tav after being ascended. he just shows it in a much unhealthier and more toxic way, it’s def not the “good” ending for him but he doesn’t fall out of love with tav.
5:08 bro is like "the gravest crimes committed in this world are committed for * almost gags * lOvE" lmao i really do not like ascended astarion, but the acting is absolutely something to be appreciated
3:54 The little stutter... man, he's so taken aback at the thought that he was loved as he was before... I love this response because it's one major time that he's actually taken aback and uncertain (possibly kind of regretful), instead of defensive and arrogant
He’s offended you’d find what he was before better than what he is now, which, as ascended, is a powerful vampire. But remember, this isn’t even the Astarion you know, he’s just all the very evil qualities of him. He doesn’t know what genuine love is and will never feel it
Ascended Astarion is a terrified creature. His philosophy early on that having power lets you do anything you want means that all dynamics are now power based. He can only be stronger, or weaker. A pretty stressful state for an eternity that involves no peace, no truces, no alliances. I get the impression that he wont survive long at all. He is one heroic adventuring group away from being a loot pinata.
perfectly put. and it's exactly what I said as well.. the ritual is only an illusion of safety or freedom. he is not safe by any means, he literally has a big red target on his back...down the line there's going to be someone out there to kill him because he's going to be way too dangerous. as a spawn, his chances of survival are much bigger despite all the vampirism setbacks. he doesn't have Gur after him, has Tav/Urge as a partner...and can go around finding a better (less diabolical) solution to be able to stay in the sun.
The rite clearly changed him on a fundamental level. Old Astarion was motivated by fear and insecurity but the ascension clearly turned him into a *literal* psychopath. What you're seeing here isn't some sort of front, it's how he genuinely feels. This is why I can't finish a playthrough with him ascended - this isn't the Astarion we know merely struggling with some newfound power; this is a genuine psychopath - listen how he openly, freely admits to how he was going to treat you (us/Tav) if we agreed to become a vampire - he's reserving for you essentially what Cazador did to him, for literally no reason other than pleasure - that's not someone who's 'just scared on the inside' lol, that's a genuine psychopath.
He seems to regret ascension in some ways, not all though (and he desperately clings and hyperfixates on all the benefits). There's just something about how he talks and shows little cracks here and there, such as at 3:54, where he seems a little regretful. Even how the video starts with him saying "I can't believe you let me do that, killing all those people". His face and tone seem more disgusted than happy/entertained there. And the way he is happier that you rejected him because he knows he would have ruined your love. Like he wants to keep the pure love you had/have for him as a dear memory, untainted by its inevitable ruination had you chosen to be with him. He sounds sincere when he says he respects you for that choice and also saddened when he says "I was trying with you, you know. In the only way I can". I think he's aware that he's lost his old self since ascension, I mean I'm sure he's perfectly capable of reading books and whatnot that mention how undead beings in this world are naturally evil. And it's not like he's forgotten how he was and felt in the past. But as time passes he will slowly forget and the day will come where he fully embraces who he is now. That'll be a sad day.
I got that feeling too. Its like he doubles down to support you in that decision because he's no longer who he was and tries to emphasize that. Maybe I'm projecting but.. Someone who really doesn't care wouldn't make so much effort to tell you that. They wouldn't want you to find out. Someone narcissistic wouldn't respect your choice but would try to keep you as hard as possible to ruin you the way Astarion say he would.. but he doesn't. Its like he feels he's too far gone and doesn't deserve Tav so he hides behind arrogant bravado but he does display.. regret. He actually looks all the more vulnerable talking/speaking like that. "I was trying with you, you know. In the only way I can try" His head lifts up, with feigned pride, but the eyes are sad, piercing and glistening as if about to cry. Briefly but noticeably.
Shiber you just made me tear up. It’s true. I really hated the ascension him because of the pain it causes him. The fact that it was far better to leave him than to stay by his side just says levels about how far he knew he has fallen and changed.
I’m wrapping up a “good” dark urge run with spawn Astarion, which has been AMAZING. Next I’m planning an evil durge run through with evil Astarion. It’s going to be 10000x’s the toxicity and I’m going to love every minute of it 😂
@@grymmoireThat's what I wanted from the moment I set my eyes on Astarion. To us to be the perfect evil power couple💅 Then act 3 comes and gives that choice on silver platter. Me: "Welp, seems I'm full of shit"
Same here. I really struggle to be outright _evil_ in games (beyond being a little mean and bullying children) but this game makes it such a unique experience that I'm really tempted to give it a try
In my evil playthrough, Astarion was always a lot of talk of wanting world domination but in the end, there was only room for one on that throne >:) Astarion feels very fake after he's ascended, as if he's trying to portray how he has it all together and everything is fine when in reality, he most likely deeply regrets his choice. Even when talking about how he got it, it never felt genuine to me, solid bit of acting on his VA for sure.
I get the impression he deeply regrets it too, and shortly after ascension he is just a couple of bad button pushes away from a break down, that's why i think some choice cause him to freak out. I also think his self esteem has taken a nose dive too, worse then it was before the ascension, and he truly believes he has bad for the PC and hates it, hates himself for it, but is in love and desperate for some comfort and so wont turn them away if they choose to stay with him.
Sure, you can read this as him trying to convince himself that it was never real to begin with and that he only played Tav. But it's honestly also amazing to just read it as "I've been literally waving all the red flags right in your face from the very start, you absolut fool!"
The more I play this scene in my head, the more I feel the following (let me know what you think): I know that when he ascended, the old Astarion, everything good and bad that made him, well, him, was destroyed and can never come back. I 1000% believe that there is a little bit of the old Astarion still in there, but this little bit will get destroyed or suppressed with time. Anyway, here goes: I genuinely believe that this last conversation is sort of like the death rattle for what's left of old Astarion. Look at his smile at 9:38. That smile is as insincere as he could possibly be. It's right after he tells Tav that he would have ruined her trust until she was "nothing." It looks exactly like a smile he gave waaaaay earlier in the game (I don't remember exactly when), one where you could do a wisdom check and see that he likely didn't mean a word he was saying. While I 100% believe that he means the words he's saying here in this conversation, he's clearly hiding something. Not completely sure what that something is, but I think he's hiding a bit of emotion there. Astarion, or at least what little is left of him, knows that as much as it breaks his heart to admit, he would have destroyed her, and this is a gift from old Astarion to keep her safe from that, to preserve her memory of the Astarion she once knew and loved. Yes, Tav had already made the choice not to join him so she's safe anyway, but this is still a gift to ease the pain of loss. It's 100% intentional. This conversation is sort of like the death rattle of old Astarion- he's breaking through to say goodbye. He says here that he'll stick with the party to help defeat the elder brain which of course he does, but I genuinely feel like after that's all over, he will disappear and probably never see Tav again. I do think, though, that Tav will remain under his protection for the rest of their life, and that he will direct his horde to stay away from Tav and from Tav's family (if they have one). *For those who don't know, there is a video of cut epilogue content where Withers tells us what happened to each of the characters after the events of the game. When talking about Ascended Astarion, Withers mentions that, as befitting a Vampire Lord, he often holds legendary decadent parties. When talking specifically about ascended Astarion whose Tav left him, Withers says that Astarion still things fondly of Tav from time to time, and that he even considers inviting Tav to his parties, but decides against it, because he doesn't think it would befit a vampire Lord. It sounds like this epilogue content is meant to take place at least a few years after the events of the game. What does it mean? Not sure, but it seems like there's a tiny, tiny bit of the real, old Astarion still in there even then, that he still misses Tav, but that new, Vampire Lord Astarion doesn't think it would be appropriate for people to know about his feelings, and that he is afraid of appearing weak. Maybe he still doesn't trust himself to remain composed if he were suddenly to see Tav again after all these years. Maybe he wants to preserve the memory of Tav that he once had, and doesn't want to ruin that by seeing Tav age, since he can't. Maybe he doesn't trust *Tav* to remain composed...maybe, like I said earlier, he wants to preserve Tav's memory of him and their time together and is worried that seeing him in his new life might ruin that, or might reignite Tav's pain of the loss of their old life.
it actually feels like he's trying to convince himself that he's okay that everything turns out the way it does~ I'm also glad he's not clinging on us and trying to pressure us to stay, he doesn't want to trick us and take our freedom to make our own decisions
There is a really tragic scene where Tav confronts Cazador without Astarion present. Cazador asks Tav what they think Astarion is feeling at that moment, and you can respond with "fear". Cazador then lays out Astarion as a person, from his perspectove, and it's very cruel but has a lot of truth to it. He describes Astarion as this pathetic, terrified individual that has likely cloistered himself in a rat-filled hole. He goes on to say that he WILL return to Cazador, on his own free will. He knows nothing else but the reality that Cazador has given him. Cazador says he has nobody but him and Tav in his life, and once Tav is killed, Astarion will come back to him. Maybe he will delude himself that he's going to Cazador to save Tav, but the reality is that he knows nothing else. That was one of the most tragic and sadistic things said in the game, and I wonder if it would have come to be. Probably. Although Cazador said something interesting. He said that Astarion knows only him AND Tav. Coming from a narcissistic sadist, it's profound that he would admit his puppet has someone else that's deeply impacted him. No matter what ending you choose, I like to think he's still Astarion, and his relationship with the player remains incredibly important to him. Anyway, I also think a lot of what Astarion does is up for interpretation. They leave a lot of the details open, so that players can come to their own conclusions. Personally, I think Astarion (in all his endings) is very reliant on Tav and wants to keep the relationship going. For AA that means securing Tav entirely for eternity (very vampirish). It's toxic, but I don't believe he will treat Tav like Cazador did his own spawn. She meant too much to him before. In the epilogue he seems to have kept his promises, and they enjoy parties at his palace. Regardless, I still prefer the spawn ending.
1:23 OH MY GOD I GOT NEW HEADPHONES ITS LIKE HES WHISPERING RIGHT INTO MY EARS AND HES RIGHT NEXT TO ME THE ABSOLUTE SHIVERS I FELT THAT NONE OF YALL WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO FEEL I HAVE JUST FELT THEM NOW
this is why i created 2 saves one for Ascended Astarion and one for non ascended because i like both but unascended is just the better healthier option for him
I like this answer 3:51, but it's a pity, you can't somehow add to this dialogue To say that "It's not true you weren't pathetic - NEVER!" After all, it is clear that this made Astarion doubt, although for a moment there was uncertainty, and facial expressions and voice when he says - "Why are you saying this?" more like a non-Ascended self.
Ascended Astarion is such a huge piece of crap but it's so like, normal and coherent that it's possible for him to become like that Spawn Astarion is my bb though i love him so much
Eh! I tried so hard to be a good influence on my Astarion . I was really hopeful that he would refuse the ascension by himself.... I felt my heart break a little when he just went for it so hard. Did anyone get their vampy boi to make the right choice without heavy persuasion?
He needs to be persuaded since this is what Astarion has been wanting the whole time. Not just freedom, but power to avoid ever feeling fear ever again. So, it makes sense that Astarion himself wouldn't look at this situation for potential power and go "I can be so much better than him" when in reality Astarion's 200 years of abuse overpowers that. But he's easier to persuade when you have high approval with him.
Quite interested in this question. I wonder how much of an influence it makes to have had more inspiration points trigger with companions because you spent time traveling with them. I also wonder if they take note of how often you deceive, persuade, or intimidate.
I had his back the entire game and he still killed all his siblings and left my party when I didn't ascend him. He would've killed us too if he thought he could win the fight. I'm sorry but if I have to persuade you for 100 hours not to commit genocide you're undoubtedly a POS.
@@stevy2 I didn't like it either that "No, I won't help you" immediately leads to the bad outcome. I wanted to have more options, such as appeal to his obvious guilt over prisoners, etc. compared to let's say Wyll when he needs to decide about his and his father's fate, there are way more choices given, or for Shadowheart. BUT Astarion has been dealt the shittiest cards. he's the only one who has something to lose once the tadpole is gone. the need to persuade him makes sense, even more if you pass the insight check option, he's scared and desperate. he's been conditioned for 200 YEARS that empathy is a weakness, feeling powerless, weak..he's suffered through much worse trauma than other companions did. he saw that a powerful person can do whatever they want without consequence. and now has a 'unique' chance to change his life. he sees the ritual as the only way to freedom and escape from control. so yes, we need to coax him out of it.
Mine went straight for Cazador. I thought it was absolutely amazing, until I researched what could lead to this automatic outcome. Having killed one of the spawn during the fight can cause this. The only save I have after the fight is after Star stabbed Cazador to death, and besides some blood around a location where a spawn might've been before, there's no real indication I did get one killed using firewall. (I've seen other people's dead spawn turn into a heap of dust, and that hadn't appeared for me, so I can't say for sure). It probably is what happened however. I probably fried one of his siblings without realising and so locked him into the spawn ending like that. It is what it is.
Honestly I wanna hate the ascended asta but I simply cant, hes stuck between a rock and a hard place and whatever path he or you choose for him he doesnt get the happiness he strives for. If he ascends he at least gets to turn you and he wont loose you as a result of him being immortal while Tav isnt. If he doesnt go through with the ritual, even if you tell him youll help him walk in the sun again he will still face ridiculous restrictions and pain and eventually loose the first person he ever really cared for anyway. While incredibly twisted he still gets his love and dialogues like these just somehow go to show that even when ascended he loved Tav in his own twisted way, trying to convince himself its for the better and that love is simply ridiculous and something disgusting. After all performing and hiding behind masks is what astarion has been doing for 200 years and continues to do so regardless of what ending you choose. In his own twisted and traumatised ways he tries to make Tav and himself feel better about the situation and simply laugh it off regardless of wether he ascends or not. In the end no matter the ending either Tav will have to sacrifice themselves or Astarion will have to saceifice himself if they continue their relationship
I has exactly the same thinking about non-Ascended Astarion the way you described. His ascended self *does* irk me, but the alternative feels so much more painful in the long run. Yes, he's happy now but what will happen further on? He can't be in the sun, is immortal while the MC is not and is *still* under serious threat from monster hunters and anyone that loaths vampires. You can either make him a day walker, but then you will still be mortal, and if you cure him of vampirism, now you're both mortal. Astarion always wanted to be *free* and he always said that its even more important to him than revenge, and the only way for him to be truly free is to become stronger. He himself says "what good is freedom if I have to constantly watch the shadows" which is exactly what he will have to deal with unless you ascend him. Honsetly, I would prefer to roleplay that eventually he will regain his "old-self" back as he spends time with MC or gets used to the powers (which is what he says, I belive), or we can just get the Wish to help "fix" him than to go through all the issues of him having to deal with all the spawn conundrum. Of course, huge hopes that Larian ads a new ending, like they did with Karlach, that would have been the better alternative.
I'm waiting for the day I can yeet Gail off a cliff and use his true resurrection Scroll on Astarion. "Baby boy I'm not giving up until I find out the true color of your eyes" 😍
The headcannon I choose to believe is that eventually ascended Astarion mellows out a bit, after getting used to all his new found power, and the fact that he even gave Tav a drop of his blood (especially since he is an ascended vampire) would make Tav a true vampire given time. He even talks about how he can't wait to taste Tav after they have tasted him. And also Tav dying would break him, though I can see spawn Astarion and Tav seeking out a vampire to bite Tav and then just stab the vampire that bit Tav, so they will be spawn together forever.
@@itsarubiks It's a nice headcanon but sadly Ascendant Astarion has lost a part of himself and gone full evil in canon. It's nice to fantasize about him mellowing out but I don't think it's possible. It seems more likely for him to go insane and start to become cruel like Cazador. But I like to fantasize about Tav being some sort of anchor of sanity and acting as a diplomat to try to keep him from dping horrible things, too... but that is super idealized. Spawn outcome actually has a lot of potential if you look into D&D lore more. There are ways in D&D to become imortal like him, restore his ability to walk in the sun, or restore his mortality and soul. Mind you, that last option would mean him losing abilities and imortality he's become accustomed to. He might find that even worse as he'd only become more vulnerable in many real ways. Living is suffering in many ways, and all just to inevitably die.
@@Deadpan_Snarker i mean what if in hrad canon when tav dies he kills himself? That would be sweet but tragic love storym just saying. Also, you do realize, especially if you chose a non elf character, that elves live long regarldess. 200 years is not extremlt old for an Elf and im pretty sure Halsin is older than Astarion(around 300 years or something). Just something to consider.
There's for and against ascending him, I mean on the one hand he does get alot more powerful hits and two bites 'ascended bite is extremely useful' but negative he becomes an annoying dick and you can't romance him without becoming one of his spawn 😂
@@rayrats8693 which is very unfortunate, like, come on, Durge is not exactly the same as Tav. Especially if we're talking about Chosen!DU - their only two options shouldn't be "I'm meek and weak, take me, my big bad vampire lord, paint me with blood like those twilight chicks" or "you've become evil, so I don't want you anymore". Why would Bhaal's fucking chosen give any power to a vampire, becoming a spawn and reason that with "oh, you've changed :C"? Why would Ascended!Astarion believe that his voice in spawn!Durge's head could ever become louder than Bhaal's? The only moment, that, I think, actually encapsulates the dynamic they would have, is when Chosen!DU says smth like "I might spare you when I rule the world" and Ascended!Astarion laughs and starts talking shit about DU sitting on his knees when he's on the throne. The only saving grace in my evil run was basically explaining to myself that since Durge knows that the world is soon going to be kaput, he's letting Astarion and himself have some fun before he starts Armageddon in the name of Bhaal. (sorry for rambling, just got really annoyed with some underdeveloped DU moments)
What kind of upgrades do u get, when you become a vampire? You need a relationship with him, to reach this interaction? Do you know how many relationships are possible in 1 through?
I let him ascend because hey 7000 spawns in the underdark i just fixed is a no no. And then my character felt guilty because its our fault he is like this. Also he also says he wants too feel safe. I turned my slelf into a mind flayer to escape this guy. I do still think his ascention self could have been written better. Or an epilogue showing what happens if you leave him. Another ending is me in hell with Khalak while still a vampire as another way to ran from this lunatic (Come find me you 😮). Option to walk in the sun please 😭😭
@@rachymn7883 Oh it's much worse. There's an abyss under there called Throrgar that's connected to Pandemonium. The monsters down there are extremely fucked up, too.
I dont like ascended Astarion, but i like that he exists
If that makes sense
It makes sense to me. I love that this is a possible outcome, because it makes me feel my decisions have more weight. This is what my Astarion could have been, but he isn't. He is soft, loving, and on the road to emotional healing. It makes me feel better about my choices, after being sad that he can't be in the sun anymore.
@@GabbyIsFine well explained~ 🥺
Totally and utterly makes sense
@@GabbyIsFine yeah, you let him give into this dark side of himself. and he is lost. safe him from it, he is doomed to stay a spawn. But he is still himself.
Being ascended turns his love to obsession, and his feeling of being free to being power-hungry like casador.
I guess that as a spawn the curse of vampirism hasn't fully taken hold yet...But as an ascendent, he is fully a vampire. True evil. They cannot help themselves. Love does not exist nor does it have place in that curse. The curse twists every positive emotion and corrupts it into nothing but evil and negative. I guess that as a spawn, he can fight it back...but not anymore :(
Even if you don't want to set loose a bunch of hungry vamps into the world, any character that is aware of the full lore of vampirism wouldn't allow a single vampire to be more than what Astarion was...he is now truly evil, and more powerful than Cazador. He is more dangerous than the spawns. The spawns at least seem to be able to distinguish between good and evil and fight against their evil emotions granted by the curse.
idk if I was clear. But that's what I think happened. Why he changed so much. He didn't only get physical powers, but he is completely and irreversibly cursed now.
Ugh. I haven't reached this part of the game yet, and I am already dreading having to make this decision. I am so torn. Set free thousands of spawns that will kill many before they can be stopped, or stop a single vampire stronger than Cazador from arising, who will possibly kill even more people than the loose spawn will...there is just no winning decision here, is there? Just a lesser evil :( I wonder if there is a chance to cure him. Turn him into an elf again...don't answer that question. I want to keep hoping. And I will stop rambling now.
He definitely cried himself to sleep after he got dumped. He was putting on way too much bravado.
“You will regret leaving me”
Me: Okay dude, tell yourself that.
@sunflowerknight no.... no he most likely didn't, he's just acting like a spoilt brat that didn't get his way really, I mean that little cough after saying love sounded like a gag to me
I think he legitimately changed, and I actually don't think he cares. He's basically become Cazador - with a few strings attached.
It's why I can't ever ascend him - he just seems fundamentally different, almost like he's possessed by Cazador and Vellioth, honestly.
@@allrequiredfieldsrecently writers at Larian confirmed that he didn't lose his soul or anything, but that his worst sides such as pride have been boosted, he's still him, just less caring I suppose
@@allrequiredfieldsi disagree. in many scenes where he’s being an egotistical asshole, you can hear it in his tone and see it in his eyes that he’s hurt by your rejection & he does still genuinely have love for tav. he just shows it in a completely different way from before. it’s common fact that in the lore of vampires they don’t understand love the way humans do, they think of it more as an “obsession”, so yes astarion still loves tav after being ascended. he just shows it in a much unhealthier and more toxic way, it’s def not the “good” ending for him but he doesn’t fall out of love with tav.
5:08 bro is like "the gravest crimes committed in this world are committed for * almost gags * lOvE" lmao i really do not like ascended astarion, but the acting is absolutely something to be appreciated
LYÄVH
I'd like spawn Astarion to roleplay as ascended Astarion, but that's about it
he is sexy ascended tho
@@seliamila1005 this is the second time you're replying to a comment of mine saying that. i get it
@@seliamila1005no
3:54 The little stutter... man, he's so taken aback at the thought that he was loved as he was before... I love this response because it's one major time that he's actually taken aback and uncertain (possibly kind of regretful), instead of defensive and arrogant
Just a small moment the actual astarion shined through
He’s offended you’d find what he was before better than what he is now, which, as ascended, is a powerful vampire. But remember, this isn’t even the Astarion you know, he’s just all the very evil qualities of him. He doesn’t know what genuine love is and will never feel it
Every. Time. I come back to this storyline, there's another tragic element. FCK!
Ascended Astarion is a terrified creature. His philosophy early on that having power lets you do anything you want means that all dynamics are now power based. He can only be stronger, or weaker. A pretty stressful state for an eternity that involves no peace, no truces, no alliances. I get the impression that he wont survive long at all. He is one heroic adventuring group away from being a loot pinata.
perfectly put. and it's exactly what I said as well.. the ritual is only an illusion of safety or freedom. he is not safe by any means, he literally has a big red target on his back...down the line there's going to be someone out there to kill him because he's going to be way too dangerous.
as a spawn, his chances of survival are much bigger despite all the vampirism setbacks. he doesn't have Gur after him, has Tav/Urge as a partner...and can go around finding a better (less diabolical) solution to be able to stay in the sun.
Literally. Like sir you're level 12
@@ProgressiveBoink xD Just wait until Tav's party levels to 13. He is dead meat.
The rite clearly changed him on a fundamental level. Old Astarion was motivated by fear and insecurity but the ascension clearly turned him into a *literal* psychopath. What you're seeing here isn't some sort of front, it's how he genuinely feels.
This is why I can't finish a playthrough with him ascended - this isn't the Astarion we know merely struggling with some newfound power; this is a genuine psychopath - listen how he openly, freely admits to how he was going to treat you (us/Tav) if we agreed to become a vampire - he's reserving for you essentially what Cazador did to him, for literally no reason other than pleasure - that's not someone who's 'just scared on the inside' lol, that's a genuine psychopath.
Neil Newbon really said alright imma crush this one too. Amazing performance.
He’s literally Ken sulking in his Mojo Dojo Casa House trying to pass himself off as an aloof vampire king
This is accurate 😂
He seems to regret ascension in some ways, not all though (and he desperately clings and hyperfixates on all the benefits). There's just something about how he talks and shows little cracks here and there, such as at 3:54, where he seems a little regretful. Even how the video starts with him saying "I can't believe you let me do that, killing all those people". His face and tone seem more disgusted than happy/entertained there. And the way he is happier that you rejected him because he knows he would have ruined your love. Like he wants to keep the pure love you had/have for him as a dear memory, untainted by its inevitable ruination had you chosen to be with him. He sounds sincere when he says he respects you for that choice and also saddened when he says "I was trying with you, you know. In the only way I can". I think he's aware that he's lost his old self since ascension, I mean I'm sure he's perfectly capable of reading books and whatnot that mention how undead beings in this world are naturally evil. And it's not like he's forgotten how he was and felt in the past. But as time passes he will slowly forget and the day will come where he fully embraces who he is now. That'll be a sad day.
I got that feeling too. Its like he doubles down to support you in that decision because he's no longer who he was and tries to emphasize that. Maybe I'm projecting but.. Someone who really doesn't care wouldn't make so much effort to tell you that. They wouldn't want you to find out. Someone narcissistic wouldn't respect your choice but would try to keep you as hard as possible to ruin you the way Astarion say he would.. but he doesn't.
Its like he feels he's too far gone and doesn't deserve Tav so he hides behind arrogant bravado but he does display.. regret.
He actually looks all the more vulnerable talking/speaking like that.
"I was trying with you, you know. In the only way I can try"
His head lifts up, with feigned pride, but the eyes are sad, piercing and glistening as if about to cry. Briefly but noticeably.
Shiber you just made me tear up. It’s true. I really hated the ascension him because of the pain it causes him. The fact that it was far better to leave him than to stay by his side just says levels about how far he knew he has fallen and changed.
Toxic Astarion can't hurt me, Toxic Astarion can't hurt me, Toxic Astarion can't hurt me, Toxic Astarion can't hurt me, Toxic Astarion can't hurt m-
💀
I’m wrapping up a “good” dark urge run with spawn Astarion, which has been AMAZING. Next I’m planning an evil durge run through with evil Astarion. It’s going to be 10000x’s the toxicity and I’m going to love every minute of it 😂
Dame first i need to be Bad and a ascended Astarion
@@Bordolinaaa ultimate dark power couple tbh
@@grymmoireThat's what I wanted from the moment I set my eyes on Astarion. To us to be the perfect evil power couple💅
Then act 3 comes and gives that choice on silver platter.
Me: "Welp, seems I'm full of shit"
Same here. I really struggle to be outright _evil_ in games (beyond being a little mean and bullying children) but this game makes it such a unique experience that I'm really tempted to give it a try
@@atinity6749I think that’s all of us in a nutshell. I wanted so badly to be bad with him, but he’s just too good at being a good boy 😩
In my evil playthrough, Astarion was always a lot of talk of wanting world domination but in the end, there was only room for one on that throne >:)
Astarion feels very fake after he's ascended, as if he's trying to portray how he has it all together and everything is fine when in reality, he most likely deeply regrets his choice. Even when talking about how he got it, it never felt genuine to me, solid bit of acting on his VA for sure.
I get the impression he deeply regrets it too, and shortly after ascension he is just a couple of bad button pushes away from a break down, that's why i think some choice cause him to freak out. I also think his self esteem has taken a nose dive too, worse then it was before the ascension, and he truly believes he has bad for the PC and hates it, hates himself for it, but is in love and desperate for some comfort and so wont turn them away if they choose to stay with him.
Sure, you can read this as him trying to convince himself that it was never real to begin with and that he only played Tav. But it's honestly also amazing to just read it as "I've been literally waving all the red flags right in your face from the very start, you absolut fool!"
"That's what you want, isn't it? To be mine? Forever?"
Well... clean up on aisle me. 🥵
I can't believe some people think that THIS is the best choice for him. he becomes just like the one he hated most - cazador.
Can’t believe no one has mentioned the perfect timing of the music at 5:32 when he says “nothing”. It almost feels intentional
The more I play this scene in my head, the more I feel the following (let me know what you think): I know that when he ascended, the old Astarion, everything good and bad that made him, well, him, was destroyed and can never come back. I 1000% believe that there is a little bit of the old Astarion still in there, but this little bit will get destroyed or suppressed with time.
Anyway, here goes: I genuinely believe that this last conversation is sort of like the death rattle for what's left of old Astarion.
Look at his smile at 9:38. That smile is as insincere as he could possibly be. It's right after he tells Tav that he would have ruined her trust until she was "nothing." It looks exactly like a smile he gave waaaaay earlier in the game (I don't remember exactly when), one where you could do a wisdom check and see that he likely didn't mean a word he was saying. While I 100% believe that he means the words he's saying here in this conversation, he's clearly hiding something. Not completely sure what that something is, but I think he's hiding a bit of emotion there. Astarion, or at least what little is left of him, knows that as much as it breaks his heart to admit, he would have destroyed her, and this is a gift from old Astarion to keep her safe from that, to preserve her memory of the Astarion she once knew and loved. Yes, Tav had already made the choice not to join him so she's safe anyway, but this is still a gift to ease the pain of loss. It's 100% intentional.
This conversation is sort of like the death rattle of old Astarion- he's breaking through to say goodbye. He says here that he'll stick with the party to help defeat the elder brain which of course he does, but I genuinely feel like after that's all over, he will disappear and probably never see Tav again. I do think, though, that Tav will remain under his protection for the rest of their life, and that he will direct his horde to stay away from Tav and from Tav's family (if they have one).
*For those who don't know, there is a video of cut epilogue content where Withers tells us what happened to each of the characters after the events of the game. When talking about Ascended Astarion, Withers mentions that, as befitting a Vampire Lord, he often holds legendary decadent parties. When talking specifically about ascended Astarion whose Tav left him, Withers says that Astarion still things fondly of Tav from time to time, and that he even considers inviting Tav to his parties, but decides against it, because he doesn't think it would befit a vampire Lord.
It sounds like this epilogue content is meant to take place at least a few years after the events of the game. What does it mean? Not sure, but it seems like there's a tiny, tiny bit of the real, old Astarion still in there even then, that he still misses Tav, but that new, Vampire Lord Astarion doesn't think it would be appropriate for people to know about his feelings, and that he is afraid of appearing weak. Maybe he still doesn't trust himself to remain composed if he were suddenly to see Tav again after all these years. Maybe he wants to preserve the memory of Tav that he once had, and doesn't want to ruin that by seeing Tav age, since he can't. Maybe he doesn't trust *Tav* to remain composed...maybe, like I said earlier, he wants to preserve Tav's memory of him and their time together and is worried that seeing him in his new life might ruin that, or might reignite Tav's pain of the loss of their old life.
it actually feels like he's trying to convince himself that he's okay that everything turns out the way it does~ I'm also glad he's not clinging on us and trying to pressure us to stay, he doesn't want to trick us and take our freedom to make our own decisions
he doesnt let you leave in the epilogue, i would not say that lmao
This comment is... tragic
He will take away your freedom if you let him turn you into a spawn though lol
Spawn Astarion: baby, precious angel, deserves to be protected
Ascended Astarion: the stupid fuck face who spits in my soup-
When you tell him you liked him just as he was he almost sounds like his old self
There is a really tragic scene where Tav confronts Cazador without Astarion present. Cazador asks Tav what they think Astarion is feeling at that moment, and you can respond with "fear". Cazador then lays out Astarion as a person, from his perspectove, and it's very cruel but has a lot of truth to it. He describes Astarion as this pathetic, terrified individual that has likely cloistered himself in a rat-filled hole. He goes on to say that he WILL return to Cazador, on his own free will. He knows nothing else but the reality that Cazador has given him. Cazador says he has nobody but him and Tav in his life, and once Tav is killed, Astarion will come back to him. Maybe he will delude himself that he's going to Cazador to save Tav, but the reality is that he knows nothing else.
That was one of the most tragic and sadistic things said in the game, and I wonder if it would have come to be. Probably.
Although Cazador said something interesting. He said that Astarion knows only him AND Tav. Coming from a narcissistic sadist, it's profound that he would admit his puppet has someone else that's deeply impacted him. No matter what ending you choose, I like to think he's still Astarion, and his relationship with the player remains incredibly important to him.
Anyway, I also think a lot of what Astarion does is up for interpretation. They leave a lot of the details open, so that players can come to their own conclusions. Personally, I think Astarion (in all his endings) is very reliant on Tav and wants to keep the relationship going. For AA that means securing Tav entirely for eternity (very vampirish). It's toxic, but I don't believe he will treat Tav like Cazador did his own spawn. She meant too much to him before. In the epilogue he seems to have kept his promises, and they enjoy parties at his palace. Regardless, I still prefer the spawn ending.
Lol, Scratch in the background - HEY. I FOUND THIS THING AND I THOUGHT OF YOU
1:23 OH MY GOD I GOT NEW HEADPHONES ITS LIKE HES WHISPERING RIGHT INTO MY EARS AND HES RIGHT NEXT TO ME THE ABSOLUTE SHIVERS I FELT THAT NONE OF YALL WOULD EVER BE ABLE TO FEEL I HAVE JUST FELT THEM NOW
calm
this is why i created 2 saves one for Ascended Astarion and one for non ascended because i like both but unascended is just the better healthier option for him
I like this answer 3:51, but it's a pity, you can't somehow add to this dialogue To say that "It's not true you weren't pathetic - NEVER!"
After all, it is clear that this made Astarion doubt, although for a moment there was uncertainty, and facial expressions and voice when he says - "Why are you saying this?" more like a non-Ascended self.
Ascended Astarion is such a huge piece of crap but it's so like, normal and coherent that it's possible for him to become like that
Spawn Astarion is my bb though i love him so much
It makes me cry😭💔😭
OMG why does it hurt so much..
Scratch in the background with an exclamation point on his head 😂
toxic astarion lmao, nice tittle
Eh! I tried so hard to be a good influence on my Astarion . I was really hopeful that he would refuse the ascension by himself.... I felt my heart break a little when he just went for it so hard. Did anyone get their vampy boi to make the right choice without heavy persuasion?
He needs to be persuaded since this is what Astarion has been wanting the whole time. Not just freedom, but power to avoid ever feeling fear ever again. So, it makes sense that Astarion himself wouldn't look at this situation for potential power and go "I can be so much better than him" when in reality Astarion's 200 years of abuse overpowers that. But he's easier to persuade when you have high approval with him.
Quite interested in this question. I wonder how much of an influence it makes to have had more inspiration points trigger with companions because you spent time traveling with them. I also wonder if they take note of how often you deceive, persuade, or intimidate.
I had his back the entire game and he still killed all his siblings and left my party when I didn't ascend him. He would've killed us too if he thought he could win the fight. I'm sorry but if I have to persuade you for 100 hours not to commit genocide you're undoubtedly a POS.
@@stevy2 I didn't like it either that "No, I won't help you" immediately leads to the bad outcome. I wanted to have more options, such as appeal to his obvious guilt over prisoners, etc. compared to let's say Wyll when he needs to decide about his and his father's fate, there are way more choices given, or for Shadowheart.
BUT Astarion has been dealt the shittiest cards. he's the only one who has something to lose once the tadpole is gone. the need to persuade him makes sense, even more if you pass the insight check option, he's scared and desperate. he's been conditioned for 200 YEARS that empathy is a weakness, feeling powerless, weak..he's suffered through much worse trauma than other companions did. he saw that a powerful person can do whatever they want without consequence. and now has a 'unique' chance to change his life. he sees the ritual as the only way to freedom and escape from control. so yes, we need to coax him out of it.
Mine went straight for Cazador. I thought it was absolutely amazing, until I researched what could lead to this automatic outcome. Having killed one of the spawn during the fight can cause this. The only save I have after the fight is after Star stabbed Cazador to death, and besides some blood around a location where a spawn might've been before, there's no real indication I did get one killed using firewall. (I've seen other people's dead spawn turn into a heap of dust, and that hadn't appeared for me, so I can't say for sure). It probably is what happened however. I probably fried one of his siblings without realising and so locked him into the spawn ending like that. It is what it is.
thanks for going through with this play :D I would not have the strenght xD
Idk why but he doesn't feel as intimidating in his starting clothes 💀
His defense mechanism to mask his true feelings is really interesting to see.
Tbf he is correct - now that he’s a full vampire it is impossible for him to be the same person and show emotion like he did before
Honestly I wanna hate the ascended asta but I simply cant, hes stuck between a rock and a hard place and whatever path he or you choose for him he doesnt get the happiness he strives for. If he ascends he at least gets to turn you and he wont loose you as a result of him being immortal while Tav isnt. If he doesnt go through with the ritual, even if you tell him youll help him walk in the sun again he will still face ridiculous restrictions and pain and eventually loose the first person he ever really cared for anyway. While incredibly twisted he still gets his love and dialogues like these just somehow go to show that even when ascended he loved Tav in his own twisted way, trying to convince himself its for the better and that love is simply ridiculous and something disgusting. After all performing and hiding behind masks is what astarion has been doing for 200 years and continues to do so regardless of what ending you choose.
In his own twisted and traumatised ways he tries to make Tav and himself feel better about the situation and simply laugh it off regardless of wether he ascends or not.
In the end no matter the ending either Tav will have to sacrifice themselves or Astarion will have to saceifice himself if they continue their relationship
I has exactly the same thinking about non-Ascended Astarion the way you described. His ascended self *does* irk me, but the alternative feels so much more painful in the long run. Yes, he's happy now but what will happen further on? He can't be in the sun, is immortal while the MC is not and is *still* under serious threat from monster hunters and anyone that loaths vampires. You can either make him a day walker, but then you will still be mortal, and if you cure him of vampirism, now you're both mortal.
Astarion always wanted to be *free* and he always said that its even more important to him than revenge, and the only way for him to be truly free is to become stronger. He himself says "what good is freedom if I have to constantly watch the shadows" which is exactly what he will have to deal with unless you ascend him.
Honsetly, I would prefer to roleplay that eventually he will regain his "old-self" back as he spends time with MC or gets used to the powers (which is what he says, I belive), or we can just get the Wish to help "fix" him than to go through all the issues of him having to deal with all the spawn conundrum.
Of course, huge hopes that Larian ads a new ending, like they did with Karlach, that would have been the better alternative.
I'm waiting for the day I can yeet Gail off a cliff and use his true resurrection Scroll on Astarion. "Baby boy I'm not giving up until I find out the true color of your eyes" 😍
The headcannon I choose to believe is that eventually ascended Astarion mellows out a bit, after getting used to all his new found power, and the fact that he even gave Tav a drop of his blood (especially since he is an ascended vampire) would make Tav a true vampire given time. He even talks about how he can't wait to taste Tav after they have tasted him. And also Tav dying would break him, though I can see spawn Astarion and Tav seeking out a vampire to bite Tav and then just stab the vampire that bit Tav, so they will be spawn together forever.
@@itsarubiks
It's a nice headcanon but sadly Ascendant Astarion has lost a part of himself and gone full evil in canon. It's nice to fantasize about him mellowing out but I don't think it's possible. It seems more likely for him to go insane and start to become cruel like Cazador. But I like to fantasize about Tav being some sort of anchor of sanity and acting as a diplomat to try to keep him from dping horrible things, too... but that is super idealized.
Spawn outcome actually has a lot of potential if you look into D&D lore more. There are ways in D&D to become imortal like him, restore his ability to walk in the sun, or restore his mortality and soul. Mind you, that last option would mean him losing abilities and imortality he's become accustomed to. He might find that even worse as he'd only become more vulnerable in many real ways. Living is suffering in many ways, and all just to inevitably die.
@@Deadpan_Snarker i mean what if in hrad canon when tav dies he kills himself? That would be sweet but tragic love storym just saying.
Also, you do realize, especially if you chose a non elf character, that elves live long regarldess. 200 years is not extremlt old for an Elf and im pretty sure Halsin is older than Astarion(around 300 years or something). Just something to consider.
There's for and against ascending him, I mean on the one hand he does get alot more powerful hits and two bites 'ascended bite is extremely useful' but negative he becomes an annoying dick and you can't romance him without becoming one of his spawn 😂
This is less toxic Astarion it's more like butt-hurt Astarion.
I gotta know... does Ascended Astarion react the same to tav and a durge that rejected bhaal's gift? Or is there some different flavours?
it's all the same unfortunately ;// durge choices you make don't have an impact on the ascended astarion cutscene
@@rayrats8693 which is very unfortunate, like, come on, Durge is not exactly the same as Tav. Especially if we're talking about Chosen!DU - their only two options shouldn't be "I'm meek and weak, take me, my big bad vampire lord, paint me with blood like those twilight chicks" or "you've become evil, so I don't want you anymore". Why would Bhaal's fucking chosen give any power to a vampire, becoming a spawn and reason that with "oh, you've changed :C"? Why would Ascended!Astarion believe that his voice in spawn!Durge's head could ever become louder than Bhaal's? The only moment, that, I think, actually encapsulates the dynamic they would have, is when Chosen!DU says smth like "I might spare you when I rule the world" and Ascended!Astarion laughs and starts talking shit about DU sitting on his knees when he's on the throne. The only saving grace in my evil run was basically explaining to myself that since Durge knows that the world is soon going to be kaput, he's letting Astarion and himself have some fun before he starts Armageddon in the name of Bhaal. (sorry for rambling, just got really annoyed with some underdeveloped DU moments)
What kind of upgrades do u get, when you become a vampire? You need a relationship with him, to reach this interaction? Do you know how many relationships are possible in 1 through?
I let him ascend because hey 7000 spawns in the underdark i just fixed is a no no. And then my character felt guilty because its our fault he is like this. Also he also says he wants too feel safe. I turned my slelf into a mind flayer to escape this guy. I do still think his ascention self could have been written better. Or an epilogue showing what happens if you leave him. Another ending is me in hell with Khalak while still a vampire as another way to ran from this lunatic (Come find me you 😮). Option to walk in the sun please 😭😭
Knowing what's in the Underdark underneath Baldur's Gate... it's a mercy to the spawn to not let them free.
You can still kill the spawn when you don't let him ascend.
@@damien678 Yes people say the drow will enslave them. In the non Ascended version I still kill them.
@@rachymn7883 Oh it's much worse. There's an abyss under there called Throrgar that's connected to Pandemonium. The monsters down there are extremely fucked up, too.
It’s difficult not to ascend him, the attack he gets is cool
what armor and accessories is astarion wearing?
How to get that dialogue at 4:50?
You need to sleep in camp 3-4 times until he forgives you if I remember correctly
3:00 Astarion on coke