Hello! Thank you for mentioning me in your video! I completely agree with the DVDO iScan HD+ review. Your analysis is very accurate. The downscaling options are rather limited, leaving much to be desired. It is also not as user friendly as one would hope. 720p to 480i/240p downscaling from what I remembered was a little trickier to pull off, which is why I didn't include it in my video. Sadly, the User Format is limited to only 1 slot, which makes switching from 16:9 to 4:3 content cumbersome if using something like a 20L5. Also, not sure if you had this happened, but if resolutions are changed too often, the iScan will crash. The only means to fix this issue was to unplug power from the unit and plug it back in after 1 or 2 minutes. Although it did have many issues and limitations, I did have a great time using it. I was not able to test for lag as I did not have the equipment at the time to do so, but it did offer low lag downscaling. Compared to my other options at the time, such as the Extron Super Emotia and VSC 700, this one was the most versatile in regards with inputs. Also, it takes in DVI or HDMI with an adapter, which is suitable for 720 downscaling, but of course there are limitations to this as well. Thank you for sharing your experience with this!
Ey thanks for the kind comment! I was banging my head against the wall with this one when I saw you had the PS3 seamlessly downscale via DVI but it just wouldn’t work for me. I didn’t have the unit lock up and freeze but it did weird things with vertical sync. If I adjusted the vertical shift, it would throw off all the other vertical sync values and I’d have to do a blind reset with the LED display. These aren’t too common or accessible anyway so I’m not too bummed that it wasn’t the ideal downscaler I was hoping it would be. Thanks again Professor X! P.S. check your DM’s ;)
I don't do 240p downscaling but I do 480p with an Extron DVS-605, its a slick bit of hardware. It works very well for my needs especially as it can take HDMI and output component/RGB and you can adjust the picture position with the pots. And great video as usual!
Thanks! I’ve got an Extron RGB-HDMI on the way to see how it pairs with some of the 480p-only downscalers. If they’re anything like the Extron VSC’s that have those liberal picture controls then it should work a treat
@@MarcoRetro316 that should work well. The picture adjustment functionality is very useful. It is great being able to get easy fine grained adjustments. And nice being able to adjust position of the scaler rather than then the whole monitor.
I've been loving these downscaling videos. I got myself a GBS-C not long ago and loving it so far. From all of these downscalers I wonder which one has the lowest lag.
Thanks! The absolute lowest lag so far was the Dexx in line-multiplier mode to downscale 480p to 240p, was about 1msec but RGBHV didn’t play nice. The next fastest was the RetroTink 5x with only 3msec of lag for 720p downscaling. The GBS-C you have is more or less the same for lag, just a few milliseconds more but nothing that’s perceivable
@@MarcoRetro316 Hi, i thought heard you mention briefly that GBS-C also doesnt like to output VGA-RGBHV? Was wondering if this is true because i already own a VGA2Scart sync converter(RGBHV to RGBS) and would like to use that at the end of the chain for my EU rgb scart crt. My end-goal that i have never seen achieved in a guide anywhere, is to get a PC to output to a CRT monitor and CRT tv at the same time without major lag or img breakdown, since on paper they are mutually exclusive (one only accepting 31khz 480p+, and one only 15khz 240p/480i). Preferably up to a source signal at 1080p or maybe even higher if i wanna dream big, and higher hz than 60 on the CRT monitor? A man can dream.
@@DerpyVids The GBS is totally fine with RGBHV output, it’s RGBHV input that it doesn’t handle well when downscaling only, but it’s fine for upscaling. If you want to output to scart then the VGA2Scart should be fine, assuming it also sends blanking voltage to scart pin 16 so your consumer TV switches into RGB
I didn't know that the GBS-C 240p mode was a line deleter and not proper double-strike. Is that true? Not doubting you, but this is the first I've heard it, and as much as I've searched for downscaling info over the years I would have thought I'd seen that mentioned somewhere.
It’s definitely a ‘line dropper’. Rama doesn’t explicitly state so but when he was discussing 240p downscaling way back in 2018 he was alluding to it being a non-issue with field order selecting, as 240p>480p>240p shouldn’t matter which field is dropped. It also behaves like a line-deleter in all my tests, if you input the 480p signal into an image shifter and then into the GBS for downscaling, moving the image vertically for non-line doubled 480p video causes lines in the video to completely delete, as opposed to making them blend and lose half the info if it averages with the next line.
@@MarcoRetro316 Don't most HD CRTs (as in nearly all of them except for dual frequency ones) stretch the raster of 480p to 540p? And are also incapable of 15kHz? I'm pretty sure that for 240p widescreen you would need a standard 15khz widescreen CRT, which depending on your location, were, and still are virtually non-existent (like North America, plenty of them in Europe, and Marco has one in Australia). Unless I'm missing something, HD CRTs will do the same bang-up job as modern flat panels and 100Hz sets when it comes to 240p and interpret as 480i. Great video as usual, Marco.
@@crt_rex yeh HD CRT’s treat anything that’s 15KHz as 480i, then do the laggy dance when scaling it to 1080i. And I’m pretty sure you’re on the money about incoming 480 being stretched to 540 or thereabouts. Thanks again for stopping by my friend
@@MarcoRetro316 Oh yeah, I remember playing Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance on the PS2 and not being able to consistently do the longer combos while connected to the flat panel directly (480i YPbPr) and the HD CRT, and that went away as soon as I used a 15kHz set, and the combos would come in beautifully every time.
@crt_rex wow! Do you think the lag was that bad, you’re super sensitive to it, or both? I had a brainwave idea during these videos to have an emulator, Mister core, or rom patch with intentional selectable frames of lag on the controller inputs to see how noticeable it is to to the player. That way if a monitor, scaler or controller is known to have about 1 or 2 frames of lag, you could have a controlled test to see if it hinders playability
Hello! Thank you for mentioning me in your video! I completely agree with the DVDO iScan HD+ review.
Your analysis is very accurate. The downscaling options are rather limited, leaving much to be desired. It is also not as user friendly as one would hope.
720p to 480i/240p downscaling from what I remembered was a little trickier to pull off, which is why I didn't include it in my video.
Sadly, the User Format is limited to only 1 slot, which makes switching from 16:9 to 4:3 content cumbersome if using something like a 20L5.
Also, not sure if you had this happened, but if resolutions are changed too often, the iScan will crash. The only means to fix this issue was to unplug power from the unit and plug it back in after 1 or 2 minutes.
Although it did have many issues and limitations, I did have a great time using it. I was not able to test for lag as I did not have the equipment at the time to do so, but it did offer low lag downscaling.
Compared to my other options at the time, such as the Extron Super Emotia and VSC 700, this one was the most versatile in regards with inputs.
Also, it takes in DVI or HDMI with an adapter, which is suitable for 720 downscaling, but of course there are limitations to this as well.
Thank you for sharing your experience with this!
Ey thanks for the kind comment! I was banging my head against the wall with this one when I saw you had the PS3 seamlessly downscale via DVI but it just wouldn’t work for me.
I didn’t have the unit lock up and freeze but it did weird things with vertical sync. If I adjusted the vertical shift, it would throw off all the other vertical sync values and I’d have to do a blind reset with the LED display. These aren’t too common or accessible anyway so I’m not too bummed that it wasn’t the ideal downscaler I was hoping it would be. Thanks again Professor X! P.S. check your DM’s ;)
I don't do 240p downscaling but I do 480p with an Extron DVS-605, its a slick bit of hardware. It works very well for my needs especially as it can take HDMI and output component/RGB and you can adjust the picture position with the pots.
And great video as usual!
Thanks! I’ve got an Extron RGB-HDMI on the way to see how it pairs with some of the 480p-only downscalers. If they’re anything like the Extron VSC’s that have those liberal picture controls then it should work a treat
@@MarcoRetro316 that should work well. The picture adjustment functionality is very useful. It is great being able to get easy fine grained adjustments. And nice being able to adjust position of the scaler rather than then the whole monitor.
Cool video. I have a downscaler, Kramer VP-703sc, but no luck with properly downscaling the image. Final result is 480i and not 240p.
Damn. 240p output is such a rare find in professional scaler. It *should* still be good for downscaling movies and modern games
I've been loving these downscaling videos. I got myself a GBS-C not long ago and loving it so far. From all of these downscalers I wonder which one has the lowest lag.
Thanks! The absolute lowest lag so far was the Dexx in line-multiplier mode to downscale 480p to 240p, was about 1msec but RGBHV didn’t play nice. The next fastest was the RetroTink 5x with only 3msec of lag for 720p downscaling. The GBS-C you have is more or less the same for lag, just a few milliseconds more but nothing that’s perceivable
@@MarcoRetro316 Hi, i thought heard you mention briefly that GBS-C also doesnt like to output VGA-RGBHV? Was wondering if this is true because i already own a VGA2Scart sync converter(RGBHV to RGBS) and would like to use that at the end of the chain for my EU rgb scart crt.
My end-goal that i have never seen achieved in a guide anywhere, is to get a PC to output to a CRT monitor and CRT tv at the same time without major lag or img breakdown, since on paper they are mutually exclusive (one only accepting 31khz 480p+, and one only 15khz 240p/480i).
Preferably up to a source signal at 1080p or maybe even higher if i wanna dream big, and higher hz than 60 on the CRT monitor? A man can dream.
@@DerpyVids The GBS is totally fine with RGBHV output, it’s RGBHV input that it doesn’t handle well when downscaling only, but it’s fine for upscaling. If you want to output to scart then the VGA2Scart should be fine, assuming it also sends blanking voltage to scart pin 16 so your consumer TV switches into RGB
I didn't know that the GBS-C 240p mode was a line deleter and not proper double-strike. Is that true? Not doubting you, but this is the first I've heard it, and as much as I've searched for downscaling info over the years I would have thought I'd seen that mentioned somewhere.
It’s definitely a ‘line dropper’. Rama doesn’t explicitly state so but when he was discussing 240p downscaling way back in 2018 he was alluding to it being a non-issue with field order selecting, as 240p>480p>240p shouldn’t matter which field is dropped. It also behaves like a line-deleter in all my tests, if you input the 480p signal into an image shifter and then into the GBS for downscaling, moving the image vertically for non-line doubled 480p video causes lines in the video to completely delete, as opposed to making them blend and lose half the info if it averages with the next line.
Gonna get your hands on an Extron Super Emotia II?
Not the Emotia II as it’s missing the 240p output, but the original Super Emotia, episode is in the works ;)
@@MarcoRetro316 Awesome, lookin forward to it.
I’m really interested in seeing wii widescreen at 240p if you get a chance I’d love to see it. Do you know Is that possible on a hdcrt?
Hopefully vWii via the WiiU will do as it’s a little softer than the Wii. I can’t see why it wouldn’t work on an HDCRT with 480p
@@MarcoRetro316 Don't most HD CRTs (as in nearly all of them except for dual frequency ones) stretch the raster of 480p to 540p? And are also incapable of 15kHz? I'm pretty sure that for 240p widescreen you would need a standard 15khz widescreen CRT, which depending on your location, were, and still are virtually non-existent (like North America, plenty of them in Europe, and Marco has one in Australia).
Unless I'm missing something, HD CRTs will do the same bang-up job as modern flat panels and 100Hz sets when it comes to 240p and interpret as 480i. Great video as usual, Marco.
@@crt_rex yeh HD CRT’s treat anything that’s 15KHz as 480i, then do the laggy dance when scaling it to 1080i. And I’m pretty sure you’re on the money about incoming 480 being stretched to 540 or thereabouts. Thanks again for stopping by my friend
@@MarcoRetro316 Oh yeah, I remember playing Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance on the PS2 and not being able to consistently do the longer combos while connected to the flat panel directly (480i YPbPr) and the HD CRT, and that went away as soon as I used a 15kHz set, and the combos would come in beautifully every time.
@crt_rex wow! Do you think the lag was that bad, you’re super sensitive to it, or both? I had a brainwave idea during these videos to have an emulator, Mister core, or rom patch with intentional selectable frames of lag on the controller inputs to see how noticeable it is to to the player. That way if a monitor, scaler or controller is known to have about 1 or 2 frames of lag, you could have a controlled test to see if it hinders playability