The British tended to use heavy, relatively slow bullets. When they went to the .38 cartidge it was the .38/200, meaning it had a 200 grain bullet and loafed along at barely more than 600 fps. I'm sure that a 200 grain bullet would do some damage though, even at the stated 620 fps.
HI Mike I used this load on 20 Hornady cases with a firm roll crimp. Accuracy was better than the factory rounds but did experience more recoil and my Webley Mk VI the brass had expanded and was just a little sticky. However, in my Colt New Service .455 it shot fine and the cases ejected without any effort. As you commented the Fiocchi brass uses small primers the Hornady brass uses large primers. So the Webley chambers may need a little polishing.. Though the accuracy was improved it still shot within Minute-of-Zulu! The Webley shot a 4 inch group where as the Colt shot a 2.25 inch group. I really enjoy your videos. FYI I also have a Colt New Service in .45 Colt and accuracy with it is outstanding and will probably become one of my favorite DA revolvers.
I shot my unshaved MK VI yesterday with factory Fiocchi ammo and got the same groups at 25 yards. Good accuracy for a 1915 made pistol. I have a set of 455 Lee dies so I saved the brass. Thanks for the loading info!
Sorry I am reading this so many years later. Great information, I just bought an Ideal 456401 bullet mold and didn't have a proper gun to go along with bullet, so I found a nice Canadian contract S&W second model 455 MKll Revolver in original condition. Now the hard part is the brass.
I had Corbin make me a swage set that duplicated the old Dominion 265gr 455 Colt bullet. It's a blast to shoot in the S&W .455 Colt NWMP gun. The Corbin bullets have all the weight up front and tumble upon impact just like the old Dominion loads. They shoot just as well in the Webley revolvers as the Smith.
When webely produced ammunition for these revolvers they developed cartridges using fast burn rate propellants(Nobel no1+2)+ tight crimp.When I shot this type of revolver,(when handguns were legal in uk)I developed a load with 265 gr hollow base projectiles over 3.8 gr hercules/alliance bullseye.and3.2 gr bullseye under 220 gr wadcutter.once you perfect crimp it is the most accurate rounds I'E used.
I guess I sm slso late here. I have a shaved Webley. In the past I have shot 45 ACP ammo in it. I now load 45 GAP brass to 455 data. The 45 GAP case is almost the exact size as the 455 brass. Works great.
You will need to alter a moon clip to shoot .455 Webley in a Colt or S&W 1917. My Webley AutoRim cartridges will shoot in my 1917s, but the .454" bullets make it pretty tight to chamber.
So glad I handload. I use a 265gr HB bullet from a guy on Gunbroker. Looks identical to the standard service bullet. I use 4.0gr of HP-38 using Fiocchi brass. Sad thing is just to get the brass I had to spend 150 bucks for 150 loaded Fiocchi 455 cartridges.
I'm using Lee .455 Webley dies. You could size on .45 Colt dies, but the Webley brass is way to short to case mouth expand or crimp on .45 Colt dies or .45 ACP dies.
Is part 2 out yet? Very informative and the results looked excellent. Bob Hayley in Texas casts the original 262 grain Webley bullet in case you were looking for some to try.
Great work! I shoot the RCBS 265gr hollow base bullets in 90/10 lead ratio. Have found quite a bit of unburnt powder using recommended loads. I think I might invest in a Chrony! Cheers
you got to get the UK M1911 in .455 Webley auto. I think hard cast lead ball being nickel plated. Just checked "224 grain cupro-nickel" @ 700 fps. Only joking but seriously love your channel, you go into the bullets and guns I really like. Makes me wonder what the .455 web auto would have been like today in the UK M1911 with the improvements in modern powers, which have improved performance in the 45 acp over time. Love the Webley revolver too a lot of history in that gun.
I have one of their C&B guns and wondered the same thing but according to the manufacturer it won't work.If you go to their website and look in the FAQ they have some info on it. I went to the site after I tried to fire mine with CCI caps and the cylinder wouldn't go back in the gun.The FAQ says only Remington caps will fit,now it shoots fine
Excellent video. I am beginning to reload for a S&W Hand Ejector, MKII in .455 Eley / Webley. This is helpful intro to reloading this cartridge. Thanks! Can you recommend where to obtain the bullets / projectiles?
I know what you mean. Its hard to beat a 158 gr SWC for plinking or paper punching with a 38 or 357. I prefer 147 gr, but will settle for 124 in 9mm. If I'm just shooting for fun I want a round that is fun to shoot.
Hi there. Have you tried working up any .455 webley (unshaved) loads with HP38? With so many powders impossible to find right now I find myself needing a Plan B. Thanks in advance
Love the old top break Webleys. Real old school British cool. Plus a big ol .45 caliber bullet ain't bad either. But 6-700 fps at the muzzle?! That's just ridiculous. You'd think that if they were gonna go for a low energy big bore cartridge they'd at least use a lighter bullet, around 200 grain at most, like 380 acp compared to 9mm para. That way you'd at least get a decent trajectory out to 100 metres before it dropped off.
A heavy bullet, esp with a wide meplat, can still be very effective at low velocity. The old .38spl HBWC load is a good example. They will mess you up with only 650-750fps or so. I would feel fine using Mike's hand loads for social purposes. Soft lead would be even better.
@@mkshffr4936 Thanks. I don't doubt a 455 bullet would be more effective at stopping a threat quickly than a 9mm of similar density in the same place, albeit not by leaps and bounds, but it seems to me that at 650fps the rate of drop off would make aiming difficult for anything but close range fights. Not a problem against a native wielding a club but most combat ranges in 20th century warfare were somewhat longer than that. Not that a pistol is going to be very effective against an enemy 100 yards away, no stock and all, but the trade off for that big heavy bullet with soft recoil is too much to justify the sacrifice of range, at least to my way of thinking. Besides a six shot revolver takes time to reload so light recoil and rapid follow up shots seem less important to me than the six rounds available being powerful enough to do the job before having to reload. Just my thoughts on the matter, I don't actually know as much about guns as I pretend I do.
@@launch4 Yep, my understanding is that the doctrine was that the sidearm was for close range defense and the rifle for actual fighting esp. at extended range. Although it is amazing what a good marksman can do. Check out Hickok45's channel. He is amazing often hitting the 80yard gong with pocket pistols off hand.
I've noticed that Blue Dot seems to burn clean in most guns.I wonder what some Goex or Trail Boss would do in that little case?I bet you could see the bullets in flight. I've got a SW 1917 that I've been considering loading auto-rim for,I hate loading round into those moon clips.I'll be looking forward to part 2.I wonder if those .455s would load and shoot in my 1917?
I have always been a fan of a decent crimp on all my loads. Those are some nice results. Looks like you use a lee turret press. Did you go to the single stage because you feel you need more precision with these loads?
Was most of the junk in the barrel after firing the Fiocchi just leftover gunpowder or did it lead more than a lubed bullet? I don't see any lube grooves on the Fiocchi. I always thought that not lubing lead bullets would lead to a decent amount of leading even if the bullets are properly sized for the cylinder and bore.
I intend to mimic your load. I will be using a Lee 4 hole reloader. I've got some of the same bullets and I wondered about the crimp. Lee provides for a "factory size" die in the 4th hole, but there is none for Webley .454. So, am I ok without it or would a .45 acp die be advisable...?
Thanks for very informative video. What would you say would be maximum velocity with the 255 grs bullet? Have you ever had any ammo pressure tested? Ever done any penetration tests, say compared to the 45 acp?
Hey duelist1954, blue dot seems to be unavailable across the country, can you suggest another powder? I was thinking for case capacity powder perhaps trail boss? thanks for any help.
I have been looking all over the place for .454 lead semi wad-cutters and cant find them any ware. Ware do you by yours from? Do you know any were I can by blue dot powder
Ware I live I can’t get bullets or get a cast so I cast my on by drilng 2wood bords but the bullet is not pirficetly strate is it safe to shoot them?????
Hi great video im only starting to load for my webley would a 230gn rn projectile be suffice in 454 sizing as no availability of the 455 sized in 265gn. My only other options is to buy a mold but i reload on a budget currently.
Just curious why didn't you trim your 45 auto rim down to what the 455 webley would be with the extra rim? And have you considered using Clays or trail boss powder it makes bulky light charges and you don't have to worry about a double charge because it wouldn't fit.
Mike, Did you ever get ivory grips made for your 3rd gen. single action army that you had the action job on? I noticed in one of your vids you were wearing an Etters hat. Are you near Lewisberry?
You didn't mention anything about the dies you are using. Anything special about dies? Webley Colt? Automatic? Mark II? Any thoughts on what the differences are between all of these options?
I have an unshaven Mrk 6, do you know of the right bullets for it and what powder do you suggest for a cleaner burn, but not be too over bearing for the top-break action.
It's not the break action that's the problem, If you've got £15,000 to spare Anderson Wheeler will make you a Webley in .357 mag. The cylinder is the issue, and it's compounded by the fact that in the US you can count on it being a war production gun that somebody has almost certainly been abusing over the last 80 years.
Mike, just a quick Webley Reloading question. Are you using a Large Pistol Magnum or Non-Magnum primer? With the slow-burning Blue Dot....I am just curious.
I just bought an unshaved Webley Mark I. It's considered an antique so it gets around Canada's nonsense laws. Looks to be in great condition. Will definitely treat it well. Does anyone know if this 6.8 grain blue dot load is safe for a Mark I?
@@duelist1954 Thanks. I would still like to try smokeless powder. I've seen people loading .45acp for shaved Webleys using 4gr of unique. Dude selling it threw in 70 once-fired brass casings on the house so I'll try to make some loads at around 10,000-12,000 psi to be safe.
I know this is probably way in the past. But I recently got an unshaved MK1 in good condition, and would like to shoot smokeless loads. Did you ever figure out what worked best?
+Guy Taylor Guy on gunbroker sells 100 .455 265GR HB bullets for 12 or 13 bucks. Pretty good deal. They have a hollow base and look identical to the original .455 webley bullet.
Eric f I developed it myself. Which I do not recommend you do unless you are a very experienced reloader. I went "off book" for the Webley because there is virtually no published data for it. There is a technique for developing safe off-book loads
its really hard to find a webley that some moron didnt shave down, if i cant find a stock webley what would you be your recommendation, should i just pack my own .45 acp bullets that are toned down enough to not cause a pressure overload so i can keep all my fingers, or should i keep searching till i can find a none abused stock webley
Hi sir, I was looking around and found this film on reloading 455 using 45 colt. ua-cam.com/video/HGUanqj_Cn0/v-deo.html Is it possible, I can't find a video in english or see it work.
Saw the Flashiest Webley MK VI when I was at the gun show in Phoenix earlier this Summer. Somebody had gotten it gold and silver plated.
The British tended to use heavy, relatively slow bullets. When they went to the .38 cartidge it was the .38/200, meaning it had a 200 grain bullet and loafed along at barely more than 600 fps. I'm sure that a 200 grain bullet would do some damage though, even at the stated 620 fps.
HI Mike I used this load on 20 Hornady cases with a firm roll crimp. Accuracy was better than the factory rounds but did experience more recoil and my Webley Mk VI the brass had expanded and was just a little sticky. However, in my Colt New Service .455 it shot fine and the cases ejected without any effort. As you commented the Fiocchi brass uses small primers the Hornady brass uses large primers. So the Webley chambers may need a little polishing.. Though the accuracy was improved it still shot within Minute-of-Zulu! The Webley shot a 4 inch group where as the Colt shot a 2.25 inch group. I really enjoy your videos. FYI I also have a Colt New Service in .45 Colt and accuracy with it is outstanding and will probably become one of my favorite DA revolvers.
I shot my unshaved MK VI yesterday with factory Fiocchi ammo and got the same groups at 25 yards. Good accuracy for a 1915 made pistol. I have a set of 455 Lee dies so I saved the brass. Thanks for the loading info!
Sorry I am reading this so many years later. Great information, I just bought an Ideal 456401 bullet mold and didn't have a proper gun to go along with bullet, so I found a nice Canadian contract S&W second model 455 MKll Revolver in original condition. Now the hard part is the brass.
Yes the 262 grain bullet was the standard. This is a very mild shooting load, a real step down in power from .44 Spl or .45 ACP.
I had Corbin make me a swage set that duplicated the old Dominion 265gr 455 Colt bullet. It's a blast to shoot in the S&W .455 Colt NWMP gun. The Corbin bullets have all the weight up front and tumble upon impact just like the old Dominion loads. They shoot just as well in the Webley revolvers as the Smith.
When webely produced ammunition for these revolvers they developed cartridges using fast burn rate propellants(Nobel no1+2)+ tight crimp.When I shot this type of revolver,(when handguns were legal in uk)I developed a load with 265 gr hollow base projectiles over 3.8 gr hercules/alliance bullseye.and3.2 gr bullseye under 220 gr wadcutter.once you perfect crimp it is the most accurate rounds I'E used.
Very very helpful thank you just got a taranter revolver antique uses 455 great info on reloading
jelly!
I guess I sm slso late here. I have a shaved Webley. In the past I have shot 45 ACP ammo in it. I now load 45 GAP brass to 455 data. The 45 GAP case is almost the exact size as the 455 brass. Works great.
You will need to alter a moon clip to shoot .455 Webley in a Colt or S&W 1917.
My Webley AutoRim cartridges will shoot in my 1917s, but the .454" bullets make it pretty tight to chamber.
That might do it, but have to trim quite a bit, so you might have to ream the new neck too, if the brass gets too thick there.
So glad I handload. I use a 265gr HB bullet from a guy on Gunbroker. Looks identical to the standard service bullet. I use 4.0gr of HP-38 using Fiocchi brass. Sad thing is just to get the brass I had to spend 150 bucks for 150 loaded Fiocchi 455 cartridges.
Do you know the average velocity of your loads? I have both HP-38 and Ramshots True Blue powder but i cant find anyone else whos used true blue
I'm using Lee .455 Webley dies. You could size on .45 Colt dies, but the Webley brass is way to short to case mouth expand or crimp on .45 Colt dies or .45 ACP dies.
Is part 2 out yet? Very informative and the results looked excellent. Bob Hayley in Texas casts the original 262 grain Webley bullet in case you were looking for some to try.
Thanks Mike! Another great video.
If you mean the bullet I use, it is RCBS Bullet Mould .45-255-SWC 424
have the same mould but they come out 453 not 454 can only size them to 452
Great work! I shoot the RCBS 265gr hollow base bullets in 90/10 lead ratio. Have found quite a bit of unburnt powder using recommended loads. I think I might invest in a Chrony! Cheers
you got to get the UK M1911 in .455 Webley auto. I think hard cast lead ball being nickel plated. Just checked "224 grain cupro-nickel" @ 700 fps. Only joking but seriously love your channel, you go into the bullets and guns I really like. Makes me wonder what the .455 web auto would have been like today in the UK M1911 with the improvements in modern powers, which have improved performance in the 45 acp over time. Love the Webley revolver too a lot of history in that gun.
Always great vids MB. Thank you.
Matrix...I've had it for quite awhile, can't remember where I picked it up.
Basically, follow the advice in the video
I still have it.
Great video, thanks!
You could, though you might end up with thicker brass in the new case mouths.
No. I haven't put ivories on the Colt yet. I'm in Newberry Township
I have one of their C&B guns and wondered the same thing but according to the manufacturer it won't work.If you go to their website and look in the FAQ they have some info on it.
I went to the site after I tried to fire mine with CCI caps and the cylinder wouldn't go back in the gun.The FAQ says only Remington caps will fit,now it shoots fine
nice tutorial mike!
Excellent video. I am beginning to reload for a S&W Hand Ejector, MKII in .455 Eley / Webley. This is helpful intro to reloading this cartridge. Thanks! Can you recommend where to obtain the bullets / projectiles?
can you do a video of loading the 38 s&w loads for the webly?
I know what you mean. Its hard to beat a 158 gr SWC for plinking or paper punching with a 38 or 357. I prefer 147 gr, but will settle for 124 in 9mm. If I'm just shooting for fun I want a round that is fun to shoot.
Hi there. Have you tried working up any .455 webley (unshaved) loads with HP38? With so many powders impossible to find right now I find myself needing a Plan B. Thanks in advance
Can you trim down a .45 Colt case to the length of the Mark II case for reloading?
Could you list out the equipment needed for your method of reloading the .455 webley?
Love the old top break Webleys. Real old school British cool. Plus a big ol .45 caliber bullet ain't bad either. But 6-700 fps at the muzzle?! That's just ridiculous. You'd think that if they were gonna go for a low energy big bore cartridge they'd at least use a lighter bullet, around 200 grain at most, like 380 acp compared to 9mm para. That way you'd at least get a decent trajectory out to 100 metres before it dropped off.
A heavy bullet, esp with a wide meplat, can still be very effective at low velocity. The old .38spl HBWC load is a good example. They will mess you up with only 650-750fps or so. I would feel fine using Mike's hand loads for social purposes. Soft lead would be even better.
@@mkshffr4936 Thanks. I don't doubt a 455 bullet would be more effective at stopping a threat quickly than a 9mm of similar density in the same place, albeit not by leaps and bounds, but it seems to me that at 650fps the rate of drop off would make aiming difficult for anything but close range fights. Not a problem against a native wielding a club but most combat ranges in 20th century warfare were somewhat longer than that. Not that a pistol is going to be very effective against an enemy 100 yards away, no stock and all, but the trade off for that big heavy bullet with soft recoil is too much to justify the sacrifice of range, at least to my way of thinking. Besides a six shot revolver takes time to reload so light recoil and rapid follow up shots seem less important to me than the six rounds available being powerful enough to do the job before having to reload. Just my thoughts on the matter, I don't actually know as much about guns as I pretend I do.
@@launch4 Yep, my understanding is that the doctrine was that the sidearm was for close range defense and the rifle for actual fighting esp. at extended range. Although it is amazing what a good marksman can do. Check out Hickok45's channel. He is amazing often hitting the 80yard gong with pocket pistols off hand.
I've noticed that Blue Dot seems to burn clean in most guns.I wonder what some Goex or Trail Boss would do in that little case?I bet you could see the bullets in flight.
I've got a SW 1917 that I've been considering loading auto-rim for,I hate loading round into those moon clips.I'll be looking forward to part 2.I wonder if those .455s would load and shoot in my 1917?
I have always been a fan of a decent crimp on all my loads. Those are some nice results. Looks like you use a lee turret press. Did you go to the single stage because you feel you need more precision with these loads?
Mike,
Can you tell me more about the cast webley bullet? What kind of mold and where could I get a mold?? Thanks, also great job!!!!!
Was most of the junk in the barrel after firing the Fiocchi just leftover gunpowder or did it lead more than a lubed bullet? I don't see any lube grooves on the Fiocchi. I always thought that not lubing lead bullets would lead to a decent amount of leading even if the bullets are properly sized for the cylinder and bore.
I intend to mimic your load. I will be using a Lee 4 hole reloader. I've got some of the same bullets and I wondered about the crimp. Lee provides for a "factory size" die in the 4th hole, but there is none for Webley .454. So, am I ok without it or would a .45 acp die be advisable...?
Thanks
Mike,I am back again!!
i like your pistol rest, what kind is it and where can I get one? Thanks again,
Thanks for very informative video. What would you say would be maximum velocity with the 255 grs bullet? Have you ever had any ammo pressure tested?
Ever done any penetration tests, say compared to the 45 acp?
Capt. Kinde I would think 750 FPS
Hey duelist1954, blue dot seems to be unavailable across the country, can you suggest another powder? I was thinking for case capacity powder perhaps trail boss? thanks for any help.
I have been looking all over the place for .454 lead semi wad-cutters and cant find them any ware. Ware do you by yours from? Do you know any were I can by blue dot powder
Ware I live I can’t get bullets or get a cast so I cast my on by drilng 2wood bords but the bullet is not pirficetly strate is it safe to shoot them?????
Hi great video im only starting to load for my webley would a 230gn rn projectile be suffice in 454 sizing as no availability of the 455 sized in 265gn. My only other options is to buy a mold but i reload on a budget currently.
I just got my fathers MK 2 and cannot find how to remove the cylinder ANYWHERE!?!?!? Any info?
Just curious why didn't you trim your 45 auto rim down to what the 455 webley would be with the extra rim? And have you considered using Clays or trail boss powder it makes bulky light charges and you don't have to worry about a double charge because it wouldn't fit.
Mike, Did you ever get ivory grips made for your 3rd gen. single action army that you had the action job on? I noticed in one of your vids you were wearing an Etters hat. Are you near Lewisberry?
You didn't mention anything about the dies you are using. Anything special about dies? Webley Colt? Automatic? Mark II? Any thoughts on what the differences are between all of these options?
very informative video! what press and dies do you use?
I've heard that India is once again allowing production of .455 brass for their civilian use. Any chance it can be imported as brass for reloaders ?
I have an unshaven Mrk 6, do you know of the right bullets for it and what powder do you suggest for a cleaner burn, but not be too over bearing for the top-break action.
It's not the break action that's the problem, If you've got £15,000 to spare Anderson Wheeler will make you a Webley in .357 mag. The cylinder is the issue, and it's compounded by the fact that in the US you can count on it being a war production gun that somebody has almost certainly been abusing over the last 80 years.
@@chaimafaghet7343 OK then
I'm a .45 guy.
What is the overall length of case you index for with these semi wadcutters?
Mike, just a quick Webley Reloading question. Are you using a Large Pistol Magnum or Non-Magnum primer? With the slow-burning Blue Dot....I am just curious.
Tim Harriman Non-Magnum. Magnum primers are too hot.
Is it possible the great accuracy you achieved with the .455 handloads was due to the extreme care you tool in loading the powder?
Yes
Great video and I reloaded mine using your good council. But why don't you use ear protection?thewelshm
I do. I have ear plugs in
I just bought an unshaved Webley Mark I. It's considered an antique so it gets around Canada's nonsense laws. Looks to be in great condition. Will definitely treat it well. Does anyone know if this 6.8 grain blue dot load is safe for a Mark I?
Great find! But, I would only shoot it with black powder loads.
@@duelist1954 Thanks. I would still like to try smokeless powder. I've seen people loading .45acp for shaved Webleys using 4gr of unique. Dude selling it threw in 70 once-fired brass casings on the house so I'll try to make some loads at around 10,000-12,000 psi to be safe.
Do you have any data for loading mk 1 ammo? I would love to shoot my Webley Mk I
Sorry Otto, but my insurance liability would be too high.
Has anyone tried using Ramshot True Blue Powder?
6.8 grns of Blue dot for my old MK1 will probably be way too high. I'm going to start at 5, and work up from there.
I know this is probably way in the past. But I recently got an unshaved MK1 in good condition, and would like to shoot smokeless loads. Did you ever figure out what worked best?
ok, I belong to a Sportsman's association in Buffalo township, Union county.
Where do you get the bullets
If allowed what is the measurement of the size of the user primers
They are standard small pistol primers
Why not just use 45 Autorim cut down to 455 Mk.1 length to solve the issue of headspacing. Seems the most eloquent way of doing it.
does anybody know if you can get a conversion cylinder to convert the north american arms .22 revolver to shoot standart cartrige ammo? thanks.
Umm me again. I can only find those bullets in .452. Source please?
+Guy Taylor
Guy on gunbroker sells 100 .455 265GR HB bullets for 12 or 13 bucks. Pretty good deal. They have a hollow base and look identical to the original .455 webley bullet.
Where did you find the load data for the blue dot?
Eric f I developed it myself. Which I do not recommend you do unless you are a very experienced reloader. I went "off book" for the Webley because there is virtually no published data for it. There is a technique for developing safe off-book loads
Mike how was recoil with that? ?
its really hard to find a webley that some moron didnt shave down, if i cant find a stock webley what would you be your recommendation, should i just pack my own .45 acp bullets that are toned down enough to not cause a pressure overload so i can keep all my fingers, or should i keep searching till i can find a none abused stock webley
lol i just saw the video you did next month, love your videos
Why doesn’t someone make them and sell them on a mass scale, it would cost a lot but at least people could find t
You reload the 455 with a 45 acp bullet ?
No. With a .454” bullet. .45 ACP is .452”
No.
Hello , Would you be willing to load some 455 ammo for me?
Thanks,don
Hi sir, I was looking around and found this film on reloading 455 using 45 colt. ua-cam.com/video/HGUanqj_Cn0/v-deo.html Is it possible, I can't find a video in english or see it work.
If allowed what is the measurement of the size of the user primers