More strip chip and testing
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Updates and clarifications on information around Silca's Strip chip, as well as a mini testing update + a couple fun tests coming up.
For more official answers on strip chip see recent silca vid update below;
• Everything You Need to...
00:00 - Intro
00:50 - sound check
01:25 - Recycle Bike
03:35 - Strip Chip part 2
21:15 - Mini test update
24:50 - Chain prep test plan - Спорт
Congrats on nearly making the sub-30min video👍👍👍
Most of his videos are under thirty minutes because he speaks clearly and you can listen at 1.75 playback speed.
so close. so. close. :)
And a great weekend to you too, sir. Thank you!
Excellent update, Adam. Have a great week.
Thank you Adam for another great informative video.
I used the liquid Silca chain stripper for the first time last week, worked awesome !!
Likewise! I used to do the several jar method but it doesn't really work with my ultra long cargo bike chain. Stripped it on the bike and applied Synergistic. Nice and easy.
The combo of a purpose-built waxing pot and a 1-step start is exactly what many people need in order to get into waxing. The price isn't bad considering you don't have to assemble your own setup and you don't have to worry about the temperature issues. If I had seen this before buying into the Flowerpower wax, I would have gone this route. If the strip chip turns out to be just as good as advertised, it truly is a game changer---and that's not an overstatement. If that's the case, I'll be going that route once I exhaust my supply of Flowerpower.
I just rewaxed a chain I'd previously done with Slica wax using the Silca pot and wax by taking the chain off the bike, putting it on the chain holder and dipping it boiling water and shaking it around to melt off a layer of wax, theoretically taking the dirt off with it. Then I wiped it off and let it dry. Then I stuck it in the silca pot at a bit over 100C to make sure I'd boiled off any water that might be left over for about ten minutes shaking the chain a few times then turning the temp down to 75C. The pot cooled down quickly and I think this is important. The Silca pot is lightweight so it doesn't retain heat like a heavier pot would, the temp drops fast enough to take a lot of time off the whole process. Then, when it hit 75C I hung the chain on the rack and the excess wax obviously dropped back into the pot.
I read comments about hair wax pots being cheaper. I'm pretty sure those pots don't get anywhere near 125C because that would end in an emergency room visit.
I would suggest adding wax up to 300 grams before adding another strip chip because if you just keep adding strip chips as wax goes down the ratio will get pretty far out of spec.
There are beauty wax pots which go to 145 degrees celsius, have digital temperature control and sell for USD30.
@@bikerjk1205 Good.
Love your videos, Adam, but you should really disclose that you're sponsored bi SILCA. You're the only true friction tester in the game. Don't taint your credibility!
For the technically minded amongst you, you can get a thermocouple, dangle it in your wax, make up a fairly simple variable resistance on/off temperature circuit with a 240V relay and lead/socket input and outputs, jam it all in a jiffy box (maybe with an on/off LED indicator), calibrate it with a candy thermometer in the wax, make up a circular sticker with temperature graduations to go round the knob (say 60º to 150ºC), and for what cost me $30-$40 in parts, you've got what Silca are selling, including your budget slow cooker, for ⅓ the price. I made mine before Silca brought theirs to market. I'll draw up the circuit diagram if anyone wants to have a go at making their own.
And if you're really technically inclined you could hook it up to an Arduino or even Raspberry Pi and have the world's most sophisticated and customizable waxing setup outside of an industrial lab. It would even be monitored and controlled remotely over WiFi. But, serious overkill unless you're a big bike shop or racing team and do dozens of chains a day.
Thank you Adam for another awesome vid!!! I'm just sticking with the ultrasonic chain clean method and silca hot melt...It just amazes me that Josh can put out a ton of videos on all these new products but still no wax x instruction video ,its been over a year wtf silca!!!!Cheers!!
yeah hot wax x has been an interesting one. My guess is that is not going to be a forever product in silca line up if it is getting this low a level of support
As an aside , it amazes me how Silca when promoting StripChip state it takes 2 days to degrease a chain using 'hardware store chemicals' ua-cam.com/video/XPMpKtZ0Nw4/v-deo.html . Lack of support bugs me as I used to work in a technical department and had to cover for lack of information provided by marketing. Exaggeration bugs me even more. It's a shame Silca do this as they make good products.
A gravimetric approach might be helpful for the setting times and potential wash away from water. You could weigh a clean dry prepped chain, then again after applying the drip wax after the cure time. The difference will be the amount of wax on the chain. Now you can do your tests and when done dry the chain and weigh it again to calculate how much wax was lost. Might not tell you where the wax was lost but maybe with some careful disassembly you could visually see it. Common technique in analytical labs
Damn, I didn’t know people with multi thousand dollar bikes are so worried about $100, give or take when you aren’t 100% sure the product is identical. Bloody hell.
Those dollars add up...
Everyone should be involved with every dollar they spend. Getting your money's worth includes getting all your money's worth.
@@gepardtilly They add up to savings when you do it right the first time balancing time and money. $100 is a dinner for two now a days. It’s not too much considering what you get for it.
@@tosheshdaulta8899 Getting my money’s worth involves a product that delivers on its promise and not a wrecked pot of wax or a bunch of wasted time. It’s a small premium to pay a top tier company who spends a huge amount of time and energy doing innovation and product development. Put yourself in thier shoes, would you do it for free?
I indeed have chains for different conditions in muddy and wet conditions I introduce about 10% of hot temp range (swix red) cross country ski wax to a pure paraffin bath, this mix doesn't have any science behind it other than trial and error but it works damn fine for Canadian winters...
It's hard to believe that these "custom" heating pots aren't just relabeled pots for hair removal wax. Especially since there have been visually identical models from waxkiss for $30 on Amazon for at least 6 months.
Edit: I got one. Test results in a comment below.
They are. There is no chance in hell Silca have set up a unique manufaturing process for a wax heating pot. They have simply looked what is out there that suits their needs (controllable temp) and sourced it.
You don’t have to believe. It’s obvious. Only buy the wax. Buy the pot somewhere else cheaper
@@clickbait4820i found an identical wax pot on Amazon for $23 US. What it lacks is the chain hanging system.
Yeah, you're basically paying $75 for a metal stand and a loop of cable.
There's no way a hair wax pot gets to 125C. 125F maybe but 125C will peel skin faster than you could get out of the way.
I guess its good to have options, but cleaning a chain with Silca wax prep is already pretty darn easy
I use toluene, acetone and isopropyl alcohol I have my jars always ready it's absolutely not a pain, pretty satisfying process if u ask me 😊
@@LaurentiusTriariusJust make sure your homeowners insurance doesn’t hear about that. 😂
I agree 100%. I'm not sure why the new Silca Stripchip is such a big deal. I'd actually prefer to strip a new chain and wax in two steps. Easy.
Adam , regarding wax drip lubricant set times , apply it to the removable links and test those , rather than having to grind chains apart. There is the issue of having to relatively slide the inner / outer link surfaces so the lubricant would be disturbed but you would know overall , especially on the outside of the pins if the lubricant had set or not. The Connex links would probably be the easiest to use , if you can find an Australian distributor.
You can probably exploit a similar technique for accessing if the factory grease has been removed or not. In that case you would have to collect some dried grease from the distillation process ( unless you have a fresh sample ) and apply it to the removable link. You would clean the chain connected in a loop instead of open ended, then take the removable link apart and swab that. Hopefully some genius on here will find you the proper testing reagent !
I’ve bought instant pots at secondhand stores that are like brand new for $25-$30. People buy these pots and never use them. I have two pots set up, the first pot is for dirty chain first dip. The second pot is used for a clean second dip. These pots can be regulated 1 degree increments for precise temperature and only paid $50-$60 for two pots.
Hi Adam, I appreciate your videos and website that is quite usefull for someone that try to take care of bicycle drivetrain and get the most lifespan out of it. I have been a long user of drip wax before discovering you. Since I have read your test results and protocole, I have tested Flowerpower an recently Molten speed wax. Both great as chains lubricant but the later being better for me. I am thinking about alternative to parafine wax since it come from petroleum, I am wondering if you have tested or intend to test vegetable wax as rice, soy, coco, sunflower, olive or carnauba? I will try on my bikes just by curiousity but it would be more/super interesting if in the future you find time to test one of those and compare it the candle wax datas. Thank you for sharing the test protocole and data to ZFC readers/viewers, this practise is becoming more and more scarse even in my work world (academic research) where knowledge should flow as freely possible.
Adam, wich reusable link would you recommend? I do racing and don't want to cause massive crash because missing link got broken. I ran Shimano ultegra 11 speed on my bike
waxers often use the ybn qrs links - i would have sold literally many thousands of 6 packs over the years, and too date we have had 2 reported failures from general use (we did have about 6 failures early last year from a batch issue, first time every for ybn, resolved when identified and the bad batch removed and replaced).
However overall i personally rate the shimano links as the most secure. officially single use, but such a firm locking channel. Some run a shimano just to be super duper safe for races, qrs in training - but really all master links if properly installed the failure rate is similar to that of chain failure rates = very rare indeed.
can we figure out a way to filter contaminated wax?
@13:31... the Cyclowax price is there in the black box... $307
Two questions:
Is there a way to know if a chain was properly prepped?
Would it be bad to throw in a strip chip in a pot where the wax is going to have to be replaced soon anyway? Do the waxing with the strip chip, replace the wax and wax again with proper fresh wax.
Crumbs, I am only managing 5000km a year! Was feeling good about that but not now....!
I would have bought it when I first started, but now I am on a routine with UFO Clean and Silica hot melt bags in crockpot. Maybe one day.
exactly, no need to change if you are doing that already.
Hey there. I suppose the Silca pot version from your wholesaler is 240V. I did see comments on the Silca thread mentioning 120V (EDIT-looking at the Silca site if in AUD, it has the 220V version with Australian plug). Sound was excellent this episode too. You say you aren't tech savvy, but you are doing better than me. 👍.
Thanks colin, but oh dear i am out doing anyone re anything on a computer - thats not a good sign for them hahahaha. I think i have had a nightmare once where i was working in I.T support. Heavens to betsy that would be a very bad job for me. it would be up there with working in fashion trying to match what handbag goes with what shoes.
And yes they will be having 220v version and aussie plug, not sure when but hopefully echelon get some soon - however stocks will be i think limited and sold out rather quickly until silca can get more pumping out.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 You're going fine. So many wouldn't know where to start. I work IT in a school, lifelong learning!
This channel should be preserved.
thanks so much!
Thank you, Adam. I have a question how to wax multiple chains at once? Do you put all of them together in the pan, or one after the other? If latter, do you turn off the heater while the wax gets cold, take out the chain, then turn back on the heater and put the 2nd chain?
I use a two chain method with a croc pot. Wait until 600km to do both saving time. Put one in on the cold wax to heat up as the wax does. Takes my pot about 30 mins to liquify. Swish and remove. Hang that one and put the second one straight into the hot wax. Swish and remove after about 5 mins. Both hang together above some cardboard on the outside clothes dryer! Occasional wax splashes easy enough to scrape off when dry.
it depends on you pot size and wax fill level. the right slow cooker or instant pot, and the right amount of wax - it is very easy to re wax 2 or 3 chains at once - as long as all will be fully submerged when wax melts you can then just swish and hang to set. very efficient way to wax for some.
no dont do the cooling wax thing - all that does is a) create more faff time for you and b) create a lot more mess and wasted wax. Pressures inside chain are very high. After 10 mins of riding you will have the same wax layer inside chain removing from cooled wax as if you removed from 95dg c wax and hung it to set on a 40dg c day. Just the former you have a whole lot more excess being pressed out and wasted and making a mess. Keep things easy.
I hope not using a "pan" as in frying pan on the stove or bbq - that is a bad idea. i am hoping by pan you meant "pot" :)
I suspect the 95 degrees or Molten is as much a safety issue as a wax issue. If you drop a chain in wax that is 125 degrees (like you would do when you do several chains in a row) and it contains any water this wil turn to steam very rapidly. This might lead to hot (like 125 degree) wax popping around - which could be unpleasant. Notice that the new Silca pot - that goes to 125 degrees - has a transparant lid on it, while the current pots that go to 95 degrees (like the one from Cyclowax shown in the video) has no lid.
(I just boght the Cyclowax one - about two weeks before the Silca Chip was announced :( ).
The lid is probably needed because of significant wax vapour. I briefly had my wax at 120 deg C and the underside of the lid and the rim of the pot were dripping with wax. I use a cheap cookworks SC-15-R .
Hi Adam. Josh on the Silca strip chip howto video said their stripper will do 16 chains per 16 fl. oz. bottle but you can extend it to 32 chains if you put the solution through a coffee filter. What is your opinion on filtering after reuse? Could you do this with UFO Clean?
Hey anthony! I am going to have to investigate that later this year hopefully. I am really not sure how that all works re how these products dissolve FG, and in a way that a filter can then separate out the FG, it is just not something i have had a chance to do some reading on or testing at all, but it sounds like i need to add that to my list for 2nd half of this year when caught up post big holiday in may!
I paid 15 dollars for my wax pot at Walmart BUT the Silica is still a good deal with the hanging stand
Important question from watching the video, if I may:
Because I clean (ultrasonic+distilled water+~10cl detergent) every time I rewax my chain and slowly warm the wax which is in a cup inside a bigger a water filled cup being warmed by the crock pot, then the contamination is beeing constrained to a minimum allowing to several "rewaxes" with preserved lubricating properties, right? I can "cook" wax below 80ºC almost infinitely and preserve its qualities?
Thank you for the great information and contribution in each video ,cheers!
When you need a diagram to explain how you're waxing your chains, maybe you're going overboard with the whole thing.
@@miguidieu06 I ride and spend alot on parts so if maintenance gets more of those parts it matters alot to me. My waxing setup takes me 45mins to a ready waxed chain for the next day and a Silca pouch is 48€ each. Cheers m8.
The two pot solution seems to be a good one for you and it will be faster.
Sort of maybe yes. I dont disagree with process as such, but the benefits / time ratio may be non optimal. If you were riding in the mud every ride, i would say overall the above is great. but if you ride in dry road conditions - you have to put into perspective that you are running a solid lubricant- in dry road conditions. contamination from that to a solid wax chain is extremely small, so you would over time spend more time on the cleaning process than you would save with parts wear. so then it becomes a much deeper time investment overall, for no tangible gain at all.
There is also the possibility that without an alcohol bath to finish post your clean - that over time a possible detergent film being brought into wax from the chain may be more of a negative than what you are gaining - which would be too small to be able to be measured - if you are riding in dry road conditions.
Potential contamination over time aside - yes if chain dry post clean, and chain is very clean, and wax not overheated - your wax will last until it is all removed from the pot to your chain over many re waxings.
However for training - the golden rule remains - dont introduce water unless water has already been introduced. So if you are for instance dry road riding - even just going to the two pot system as demonstrated in waxed life like a boss video is going to do probably 99% of what you are doing, but it adds 30 seconds to the re wax, not 45 minutes etc. If you head out on full mudders - for sure your process is similar to what would be done to reset a race chain post wet ride (but with alcohol rounds to finish to ensure no film).
@@zerofrictioncycling992Thank you, thank you.
Yes I do "isopropyl alcohol" bath the chain prior and after the wax bath I do small other details to ease and secure the cleaning process prior to the waxing but for reading purpose I just describe the main stages. And I do "collect" those big CLEAN chain "crumbs" from the chain flexing back to the wax cup.
I read the Silca cautions and instructions but only @zerofrictioncycling992 has ever referred to rewax contamination along with the hotspots from the wax heating process so specifically. Even though I go overboard with the process I was a bit worried as I don´t fit in the usual user category.
Thank you again so much for your time and I´ll make sure to support the channel in a few minutes. Have a great weekend!
Any update on the Molten Speed Wax maximum temperature, will 125 C be detrimental?
not yet sorry, will try get back on that with them!
How about using an electric skillet? They have accurate temp control, come in deeper format and a glass lid
as long as heat up wax slowly and not get too hot, then any temp control heating pot / pan etc should be fine. The issue with such (same as people using stove top) is they arent too aware, and so turn it on like they are going to boil some water or cook some eggs. The advantage of a slow cooker / crock pot / temp control instant pot - is normally a setting is easy to select that will be groovy for the wax. Some skillets even on a medium setting could spot burn wax if heating up fast.
I know that you can get a 30$ Amazon wax pot or even a thermometer and a double boiler setup (bain-marie) but I also understand the psychological benefits of marketing a "all in solution".
No hate for silca they are just doing capitalism correctly 🎉
The Dezac Rio CWAX3 hair removal wax pot has a 500ml capacity, goes upto 135C, looks controllable, has a lid, and costs £28 in the UK. No rack for holding a chain above the pot but its not designed for that. May well get one if I think 500ml is sufficient capacity for a chain.
yep try and let me know - i had a quick look, and honestly if its doing those temps - that is CRAZY for a beauty wax pot. Such waxes are normally applied at between 30 to 45dg c depending on if a soft or hard wax is used. Anything around 50 is in danger of burns. Anything around 90dg is BONKERS for a beauty pot. If someone used it anywhere near that temp - even 70dg - man if someone puts wax on at 70dg, even 60dg - thats some bad burning going on and lawsuits. It is mental a beauty wax pot would have those temps.
@zerofrictioncycling992 My god, this is directly from their instructions:
"Add a quantity of solid wax to the wax pot and place in the heater.• Press the Solid Wax button, then press the Start/Stop button.• The heating element temperature increases to 125°C and heats the wax for approximately 45 minutes and then reduces to 90°C. The wax temperature is then maintained at approximately 90°C. Important: Only use the wax when the indicated temperature is 90°C."
90C?! Holy shit! I'm American and even I know that's fcking nuts :)
@@sjh2114 on the one hand - hahahahahahahaha! - on the other hand... omfg that is just 3rd degree burns and screaming waiting to happen - how is this product on the market like that?!?!?! I am not that easily shocked these days but that does shock me and scare me!!! I might have to buy one and check it out ;)
The audio sounds perfect until 4:57 then I heard a what seems to be a loud fan. But still better than it was. But got back to great audio at 6:06, and back to fan noise again at 11:52, seems like the fan noise gets picked up when you do screen recording. Weird.🤔 Maybe the settings are not the same, so check that.
yep something changes when i do screen record - its like it keeps "catching" - there are constant blips in the audio if i choose nvidia broadcast for the mic when do screen record, but then without it it is picking up computer fan noise, that i literally cant even hear sitting at my desk -nuts! more pondering :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992Using Audacity ( not difficult ) I did a spectral analysis of a quiet bit of audio and you have a well defined big peak at 100Hz with smaller broader peaks around 200Hz . It's not too noticeable for me as I am using a laptop and not headphones. I did the same with your last video and the spectrum was similar. Your computer fan speed could have been the same in both cases or could be electrical interference as it is a multiple of the 50Hz power frequency.
@@dawn_rider i need to make sure i have my flux capacity off, as well as the antimatter drive, and making sure my dialithium crystals are properly stored! so many things to check :)
Thanks for the video! I have no interest in the strip chips, but I respectfully disagree with a couple of your critiques:
1) I think it would be quite realistic to use 6 strip chips with one bag of wax. When I first started waxing chains, I very quickly had 6 chains in circulation over the course of two months. I'm guessing I still had 90% of my original bag of wax when the 6th chain came into circulation.
2) It also seems plausible to do 80 waxes on a bag of Silca Hot Melt, even if I've never done it. My spreadsheet for 2023 shows 58 chains waxed before I changed the bag at the 1 year mark. At the end of the year, it was still easy to submerge 2 chains in my 2.0 quart Crock-pot, though three chains required a bit of positioning to get them fully submerged.
Thanks for your hard work on the testing front! It is game-changing to have some real data to support our product purchasing decisions.
--
PS: For those who are wondering, I end up waxing chains about twice per month. I usually throw 2-3 chains in at a time. That represents about 10,000-11,000 miles of riding per year between my wife and I.
Yes for sure, there will be use cases like yours where that will happen, but there will also be a lot of use cases where one will degrease a chain, run it till replacement time, degrease next chain. A bag of wax will not last 6 chains. it will not really last 2 chains. So getting a ml cut off point for a new strip chip will be handy to attain officially and update.
I 100% agree that Silca should provide a clearer ratio for users! For now, we will have to extrapolate from Silca's "1-bag = 6 chips". One bag of Hot Melt = 500grams or about 500ml. Doing the math:
- 1 chip per ~80g of wax
- 1 chip per ~80ml of wax
Until we get further guidance, those seem like safe limits.
[I also agree that not all users will strip 6 chains in the first couple of months. My point was that it isn't a far-fetched scenario. Thanks for writing back - and keep up the good work!]@@zerofrictioncycling992
The bowl in the StripChip ' Chain waxing system ' heater is integrated and not removable. I asked in a comment on the Silca video ua-cam.com/video/g8BbR-Py02o/v-deo.html . Silca say it's been designed this way for better temperature control , faster heating / cooling and 'affordability' . These are valid design decisions on Silca's part but I would rather know this before buying ! Currently it doesn't say this anywhere in their FAQ or webpage . Please comment if I am wrong or this changes.
Before finding this out, I thought bowl one might be used for StripChip / cleaning / possible boiling off of damp chain water at 125 deg C and bowl two for rewaxing at 75 deg C .
What's the purpose of a strip chip if you don't ride in very dusty, dirty or muddy conditions, prepped and waxed a chain properly when new and rewax regularly, and when it is time to rewax, either pour warm or hot water over the chain or use pressurized air or water to get any dirt and muck off the chain, and then rewaxed?
Is it for folks who don't want to be bothered with all this, do ride in very dusty, dirty or muddy conditions, or want to get that last 0.3% slickness out of their chains, because they race or just like perfection?
its only for the initial prep of a factory grease chain. That is the sole purpose of strip chip. After that just re wax, or if post dry, wipe dusty chain with alcohol on microfiber cloth to remove bulk of surface dust so you dont import into pot. In general only boiling water flush rinse chain post wet rides, dont introduce water to chain unless its already been done by the ride.
Adam , sent you mail at 0410 ACDT 07Mar your time with a pic of a clay dust grease test. You may wish to try makeup powder as it is has small particles , comes in lots of colours and is applied with a handy forensic type soft brush ( I don't have any ). My other thoughts are crushed barbercue charcoal. Tried talc but doesn't show well on a silver surface. Don't try getting FG from your distillation process as I previously suggested. I fear that components of the grease may be damaged or react with the mineral turps. Don't use acetone in the ultrasonic due to fire risk. I don't know if Isopropanol will react at the low temperature that one commentator on here used. Tried to send you a much longer message but YT deleted it.
thanks stephen! will file this one in follow up for looking at hopefully next week, holy batman buried atm with andrew away, all project work has ground to a temporary halt!
13:29 First time hearing of Cylowax. I see the chain aren't cheap, the chains cost twice of the retail price of the chain, at least for me, ass it shows the Norwegian price, which is nice, not show the price in the currency from the country you browse the site from, 664,00 kr for GX chain, costs 278 kr to 289,00 kr in various retailers here. So this would be off-putting for many, and then shipping + added value tax of 25%. But as they are in Belgium it will likely ship fast to Norway. Their wax cooler looks neat, not cheap. but if it works well, and is good then why not. But their wax tablets seems to be reasonably priced, of course not super cheap, but not bad.
yes for sure - most places doing professional pre prep - there is a price premium to get a chain properly done and ready to rock. its not just the cost of the wax and the prep - businesses do need to make viable profit to stay alive to be here to offer such things. they will be a specialist retailer vs a volume retailer - so there is more time to manually process basically everything as not the volumes to take advantage of some system efficiencies of the likes of (previous) wiggle / crc etc - here in aus we have bike bug, pushys. It is more manual to process an order and ship it . enquiries are answered by a person not a FAQ section or chat bot. keeping stock coming in and balancing the accounts etc etc - it all takes time, it all takes money - and at the end of the hard work - hopefully people can draw a wage. i know how hard they have worked to get CW up and running, and the investment to get a business up and running - it usually 2 to 3 years for even successful start ups to break even. So i am not usually too critical of many companies pricing re viable margin to hopefully survive going forwards. There is so much more stuff thats a so much worse - ie - what do you think the margin is on a $25 bit of plastic for a light mount for many brands, or a $40 for a little usb charging cable for a garmin watch of which they produce probably hundreds of thousands a year at about 10 cents each etc. I should do a vid one day re margins for small retailers vs big and product comparisons, capitalism is interesting :)
Makes sense. I was not surprised. @@zerofrictioncycling992
Is there a tldr? No way I am watching 30mins to get a sentence wroth of info..
Not appropriate having Rowan, Dennis for the photos promoting bike resale. You may or not know who he is but both of you being from Adelaide
Yep if it was me, i would update that pic, but thats what he has on his website and i was showing his website for the shout out. Great guy and great adl business but i agree, if i was me, i wouldnt have that pic up anymore.
Not sure why the concern about how many Silca chips you could put in a bag of hot melt wax. You should be getting much extended chain life, 15k km plus (?) so why would you need to keep stripping so many new chains? Unless you are just looking out for industrial/retail users here...
yes thats the clarification point as whilst silca states you can get all 6 through a bag of hm, that will be a rare use case i think. for most they will be lucky to get two chains through a bag of hm before needing new bag. so at what point is fill level too low to accept another strip chip - i just want to get that clarification. is it 300ml, or less - their video was not entirely clear
Love ZFC and Durianrider just a shame about the beef really
What has happened to Durianrider 😂
if you have a screw loose it doesnt get tighter as you age, they typically rattle out further. but aside from that, the lack of any moral floor whatsoever should be what really has people not supporting....
Why does this have to be freaking complicated? Sonic clean chain and use Wolftooth WT-1. One and done.
Noob
you obviously have not seen the detail review vid for wt-1. That lubricant is - in my opinion, and based on a) very bad test result and b) extremely flawed approach on "clean as it lubricates" - a very poor product for use on a bicycle chain. And wolf tooth have not responded with anything to counter the information provided in the review. Watch that vid and then see.
ps - this is not freaking complicated. There are now multiple very easy options to remove factory grease, and waxing is a doddle and has a ton of advantages. Perhaps also watch waxed life like a boss vid.
What I find fascinating about all this is that it seems all the big name lube companies' products don't do well in these tests. Is it because they don't prioritise research and development (R&D) in their cycling products? Interestingly some papers seem to suggest that - [1] ... chain lubrication has a negligible effect on efficiency ...
[1] Effects of Frictional Loss on Bicycle Chain Drive Efficiency - Spicer, J. B., Richardson, C. J. K., Ehrlich, M. J., Bernstein, J. R., Fukuda, M., & Terada, M. (2001). Effects of Frictional Loss on Bicycle Chain Drive Efficiency. Journal of Mechanical Design, 123(4), 598. doi:10.1115/1.1412848
It seems to be true, but it does have an impact on longevity, which is probably the most important factor.
I can't see their methodology but I find it hard to believe that a freshly lubed chain would be as efficient as an old gunky contaminated chain.
I always thought wear was mechanical so it necessarely needs work for it to happen, but the wear happens on so long that it probably doesn't even create a watt of difference, so they might be right
The spicer paper was debunked over a decade ago by jason smith of friction facts. The hint is that their equipment was so blunt it could not pick up any difference! The difference picked up by friction facts with a proper test was many watts. And we see in my test, many times the wear rate difference.
many of the legacy "big name" manufactures have most likely - in my opinion, - just re bottled and re branded X lubricant from industry for cycling. They have absolutely zero information they can give you re how it performs on a bicycle chain where it is completed exposed to contamination, and has so many sliding surface parts under extremely high pressure loads. Ie write to finish line etc and ask them for their testing that backs product performance claims for cycling and see what data you get...
If you believe that in a control test like ZFC, of a bicycle chain, running on a bicycle drivetrain - with contamination - if with one lubricants wear rate is 3 or 5 or 10x greater than another lubricant that there is no difference in performance........ i can rather well assure that there is a heck of lot more friction going on there to wear through hardened steel so so much faster! :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I appreciate your response sir. I've just read Jason's article on Velo and his approach seems to be more sensible.
* I also learnt that there is a slight efficiency increase as the chain breaks in!
The bicycle transmission lubricant marketing ‘space’ has long been neglected by any rigorous comparative observation, and had been a place where companies could reap significant profit simply from brand loyalty and marketing jive. ZFC is running a fine-toothed comb through this marketplace with a one-man tour-de-force of reproducible testing with ‘error bars’ of certainty using actual bicycle equipment in controlled conditions. Many marketing campaigns tout saving so many ‘seconds per 100K’ for items that may not have sensible advantage. Waxing my chain with one of ZFC’s top performers gives me a free-running smooth feeling clean drivetrain that has shown no detectable wear over thousands of miles of ordinary commuting. That’s proof enough for me.
Read the comparative charts in any way that suits your objectives, and choose the one that fits best - the information can let you make your own best choice. Performance wins. Not advertising.
@@im-on-youtube yes for sure for dedicated race chain prep especially the initial break in is a key part. But yep sometimes if a test shows something that just really doesnt add up - ie a part that has so any moving parts - some of which are doing so under high load - to report there is no difference, that would be a red flag for the test that the test was not up to snuff, go back to the drawing board. ie if in my test wear rate results in wet contamination block 4 were the same as clean block 1 - that would be confusing, and i would need to re look at how the contamination is being applied etc - i wouldnt report that lubricants perform the same in wet conditions as they do in dry conditions. Spicer should have acknowledged the test equipment was not up to the task to assess performance differences, vs reporting as a finding there were no differences. But then again, wow wow wow you should see how many academic papers have been torn apart later - even some that have won some initial awards & or investments for future products to bring to market - only to find the whole paper was just crap - they had hopes, the data coming in didnt support those hopes or the thesis, and then everything twisted to make it fit so they get published, can do a tedx talk and then get investment etc etc. Its for sure not just in marketing for chain lubes that we have big problems with information!