Rover P6 V8 wont start again...whats broken now?
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- Опубліковано 13 кві 2024
- A big project like this is will always have teething problems and things will not always go to plan, and with zero shock to anyone, the Rover P6 V8 is currently failing to proceed. Lets find out why...
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Even at idle, the voltage should be 13.8V to 14.3 at higher revs. The altetnator is faulty Matt
I still think if you listen carefully enough you can hear this car laughing at you as it tries to come up with other ways to try your patience and diagnosis skills. It sounds brilliant though
Tried the john cleese branch method?
Hi Matt. I'd completely take that brass, double-ended batery connector post out of the car floor and check its condition. They are notorious for suffering from high resistance corrosion, deteriorating to the point of snapping like a matchstick as you undo the cable clamp nuts. I've lost count of how many i've renewed. You can easily make up one from threaded rod if you cant find a replacement. The nylon insulators crack and allow damp to eat away at it. The underfloor half is where the main cable to the starter takes off. Inside, under the carpet, is where the 12 volt feed that supplies the whole of the car's electrics feed from. It all needs to be 100% perfect, or you'll get all sorts of weird electrical issues. Make sure you protect it all with electrical grease, or petroleum jelly. Before going to the expense of a new alternator, take the brush box off the end. Clean the brush slip rings are clean. Check the brushes are good, making contact, and not sticking in their slots. They wear unevenly as the outer one travels further on its bigger brush race. A new brush box or set of carbon brushes are a fraction of the price of a new alternator.
those cheapy amazon air filters actually look really good!! pamper her with a premium alternator - she deserves it
Stick with the SUs.
My brother has a 4.6 in his 110 still using the 3.5 SUs.It puts out 220 bhp and runs beautifully
I bought a brand new ‘Lucas’ alternator a couple of years ago… made in China. It lasted 600miles and then the front bearing started howling and the regulator pack frazzled.
If you buy a ‘new’ alternator get something old that’s was made in the UK and has been properly reconditioned. Or a Denso…
I had a later Land Rover alternator put into my P6B. Greater output (can’t remember figure) but looks just the same as the original, UK made and not had any trouble with it.
Are some Landrover alternators specified to supply extra current for powering ancillaries / a trailer?
Though best to make sure the output is ~12v as (I think) military Landrovers had a 24v supply to their trailers
@@tomwinch9107 The 24 volt FFR ones are very different (huge things; I used one on my boat) so you couldn't confuse them (or even fit them to a P6).
You've had a load of headaches with this one, would be nice to see you get some well earned driving pleasure!
No interest in defending this for obvious reasons, but I talk to my car and ask it nicely to work; you have to be earnest about it, and be serious like it's listening and has feelings, even though it doesn't.
Who told you it doesn't have feelings, of course it's listening dude! It will never forget if you put low octane fuel or low grade oil in either. Cheap spark plugs are a cardinal sin too! 😎
The machine spirit has to be appeased
Cheapo K&N copies are a disaster for flow, I wouldn't be surprised if the standard airbox with a quality filter element would give more power (cone filters will pull the hot air from the engine bay from around the exhaust manifolds) which will make it worse. You'll only see a volt drop when you're passing current through the junction, just statically measuing won't tell you much. Those old Lucas alternators are fairly weak, the engine won't consume any more power unless you've done something with the fuel system. Do you have a charge warning light? Don't forget to check your grounds too - engine/trans to body is just as important as battery to body & B+.
I normally get my alternators repaired rather than buy a new one of questionable origin. I have used Robson Francis Rewinds in South London who do a good mail order service. They rebuilt my 1937 Buick starter ,as well as others, and were excellent. There probably ones nearer to you in Kent.
Worth investigating definitely
It is possible that the alternator has got damp and mold on the rotor from sitting so long. It might be worth a look at running the car with everything on, lights, heater etc, checking the output and see what happens. It should clean up the rotor and brushes. I've done this myself and it worked. Better than forking out on a new one
Even immobile it is still a work of art! Keep up the great work 🏴
Yes, your alternator should be doing better, and would benefit from a visit to an auto electrician. I notice that your battery is the modern non- top-uppable type. Generally these are a design called a calcium battery. Old school lead acid batteries were happy with a charging voltage of 13.8V, but this is a bit low for calcium batteries, which are happier when getting 14.5V.
A few years back, I had a Triumph 2.5 PI, 1972 model. The battery voltage was showing as just barely 12.5 while driving and dropping to below 12 when the headlights were on. I pulled the alternator apart and found the connection from one phase winding had a bad joint to the rectifier diode. It was only putting out 2/3 its rated amount. Once I soldered the connection properly, it was back to proper output and the battery was sitting at 13.6 volts, headlights off or on. Thank you Lucas, Prince of Darkness.
Yes, It's usually possible to repair alternators unless the windings are open circuit. Most common issue is the slip ring brushes, which provide voltage to the armature winding. As you mention, connections and even dead diodes can be fixed.
Glad you finally fitted air filters, and they actually look quite decent!
Even through idle matt you should be seeing around 14.4 v if smart charge too then it should peak at 14.6 with the rear heated screen or heater blower on full chat ...👍
No
Hi. Love the p6. I've had 3.. First was a 2000sc reg mue 622e. My second 2000tc reg jby 287k. My profile photo. And a 3500 auto reg oja 820m. I sold my last in 2002. I think the tc is still about as it's sorn. I'd love to come across them on youtube long shot good luck in the future
Do you have the charge light (Red ign) connected, it needs a feed from that to excite the alternator, without, there is no charge generated.
That's exactly what I was thinking. 👍
I was thinking the same. There should be a 'No CHG' indicator showing on the dash. This absence, indicates no excitation. Check the connections on the 'nator.
Good point and often missed. If that bulb blows or has a loose connection, you'll get no charge.
I've got one of those Lidl chargers, it works well for me, lol
"easy to fix " "won't be difficult" Oh Matt, you shouldn't be saying things like that !! 😁👍🏴
If it's possible on the 4.6 I would chuck out the points and condenser and fit a Luminition ignition kit. OK it's more money but a real fit and forget option.
Or two twin choke Webber's only £4 grand+ what a bargain 😮no kn wy.
I’d almost be tempted to run some pipe from the carburettors to the front and fit the filters as low as possible, to suck in cooler air from the front of the engine.
I've had a few P6s back in the day when they were just old cars. One would regularly but not always discharge it's battery due to an intermittent earth leak. It drove me round the bend but eventually I found it. The loom runs from front to rear through the driver's side sill. Where the cable entered the inner sill it had chafed the insulation and sometimes shorted out. A bit of insulation tape and all sorted.
Nice shiny edelbrook. Hell yeah 😊
P6 💗 😂you got it Matt! Like the P6 even though it is an AT but we won’t talk about that😆
The gift that keeps on leaching 😅
Matt is there a chance that you have the separate voltage regulator fitted to the inner wing on this Year of car ?
I seem to remember having a conversation with you about the alternator way back when you were having trouble getting the Drive belt to run in line ?
Also might be a good idea to check the earth of the alternator to the engine/ chassis ground point as I seem to recall a hockey puck in your engine mount .
Good detective work Matt 👍🏻 someone here thinks you have a WHOLE CREW / TEAM helping you 😂, well I guess you have Mrs Furious making the tea and Master Furious holding camera sometimes😁, guess is kinda a crew 😉. Glad it’s coming along nicely Matt .
Is the electrical issue the alternator itself or the voltage regulator? Quite often ir is possible to change the regulator quite easily and for a lot less money than a new alternator. You will want to do a load test on the alternator to determine whether there is sufficient amperage being generated. If you end up doing the alternator, get the strongest one you can get. On my old Fords i would run a 200 amp alternator with a 4 gauge cable and an 1100cca battery with 1 gauge cables. My 1978 Ford Thunderbird was able to jump start what you would call articulated lorries while the new pick-up trucks sat uselessly by.
I believe only the early cars had a separate voltage regulator. Later cars it was built into the back of the alternator ( under plastic cap.) Probably the best option in my opinion.
What about a Holley FI system for the P6?
ACF50 on all your terminals and go Ctek battery chargers , trust me on this 😉😊
The good old joys of motoring -mat never mind slowly but surely you are getting there.
You are having similar issues that I did.
Tested my alternator and there was no output, took it to a local guy and £20 later its fixed.
My fuel gauge is also faulty, I ALWAYS carry 5 litres in the boot and I visit the petrol station every 3rd time I go out.
Even engine off a 12v battery should be around 12.7v, and somewhere above 13v with the engine running (13.5 ish at idle, 14.5 ish at revs).
The V8 sounds gloriously creamy. Perhaps just changing the 'regulator' maybe a cheap fix rather than changing the alternator as a whole? Unless of course some of the diodes are shot. Looks gorgeous even whilst stationary!
You might not be able to complete the alternator (I nearly said altimeter but the cost of those can be high, I'll get my coat) job today but some great work to diagnose the likely culprit. It least the alternator change 'should' be an easier job than some, seized nut's and bolts permitting but we are talking about the P6 so anything can happen. Many thanks for sharing.
Back, a few years, I had a mate who was bonkers trying to get the motor to run in his classic. After investigating, the previous owner installed a "Kill Switch" that was an early way to im-mobilize a vehicle. by pressing in the fag lighter, it shut the electrics off. He had pressed it in, and not realised it, while checking fuses.
The yanks often disconnect the earth lead while running, and the car stops, proving the Alternator is duff. Would Not recommend that on modern cars, great way to fry the computer module, and create a truly immense repair cost. I would trade out the Battery, and re-test the alternator with the circuit box. Cheers!
Does the ammeter not work on this car? That will show it's not charging.
On my 3500S it used to show a big + charge after starting but soon settled down to just in the + side when running.
I do enjoy all the precise technical terms and descriptions.
Doing checks like that on the hidden junction are not valid as it is under load when the starter is cranking that any resistance gets critical.
The Alternator should be charging the battery to at a minimum of 13.6 Volts in my experience, even 12 Volt is often insufficient.
Is your charge indication light working? As others have said it may need to be connected to give you "field excitation" in the alternator. If it is connected and the light extinguishes when running it is almost certainly a failed diode in the rectifier. The "charge" light is frequently only connected to one phase output of the rectifier, any output at all puts the light out , but if any other phases are missing the rectifier won't produce a proper current. Try and get a replacement rectifier pack to fit to your alternator or have it rebuilt locally.
Take the back cover off the alternator and have a look at the diodes. Blown ones are frequently easy to spot, burned and distorted.
Ive had that issue on the 2000, will double check
I think you need your auto electrician friend to check out the alternator and charging system properly. Alternators can be refurbed. This may have a combined diode and brush pack which just swaps in, possibly without removing the alt from the car. Try TA Spares, just up the road from Chatham station. ME4 6SL Repair and exchange.
To be technically correct you were measuring voltage not 'power'. Power is more analagous to current.
There is little doubt that the alternator is at fault. If you know a good auto electrician it might be possible to rebuild the existing alternator at lower cost than a new one. An exchange alternator is another possibility.
Does the ignition warning light work? The bulb actually forms part of the excitation field of the alternator, so if the bulb has blown ( or you've tried to replace it with an LED), the alternator won't work.
Hi Matt, a little hard to tell but at the end of the video the wires out the back of the alternator look quite cramped against the front of the Rocker cover. Could there be a short here? If either the exciter or output are shorting then that could cause your problem,and the alternator might be fine!
Keep up the good work, it's always the snagging and little jobs that take test you.
Does the red warning light come on before starting as that if remember correctly is a fuse for the alternator , control units are ? Replaceable
indeed getting there slowly.
Recently had the alternator on my Minor misbehave - turned out a brush had come adrift - £2.95 for a new pair and probably 40 mins work in total. Might even be that its just the commutator needs cleaning or the brushes are sticking.
Y reg mini still looking good 👌🏻
I’ve never had a Rover but from that era plenty of Fords n Vauxhalls and all I did is take the regulator out the rear of the alternator and go down the local electrical supplier and £15 fixed the charge problems… sounds like modern cars have this sensibility designed out 🙄…but can’t you do that with the Rover ?
Have you checked points coil and condenser?
Check the voltage on the starter/solenoid, those long cable runs from the boot can really make a decent battery marginal. Obviously your alternator is toast, was it being energised?
Hi Matt I'd borrow an alternator off another car in the fleet and see if that works.
Another good video 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍👏👏👏👏
Did u use the tea shelf?
Parasitic draw. The best kind of draw. YOu really need to do a checkup on the loom on this car to make it reliable. Is impossible to realy do any conclusive fault finding with a major unknown entity like that. Check the alternator voltage after you fully charge the battery or with a known good. You may get different results.
Hey Matt, the output from that Alernator doesn't look good.. Have you checked the Diode pack /rectifier ? I think it should be around 14volts ?
Great Video by the way 👍 🏁.
I'm beginning to think that.
That car hates you.😂
I just noticed when you started the car, I saw what looked like a lock on the right hand side of the dashboard and was wondering what it’s for
From what I remember of my own P6B that I owned many years ago, it's the lock for the driver's side 'shin bin' -- i.e. the driver's glove box. There's a similar shin bin on the passenger's side but I don't think it's lockable.
@@coopdivi thanks for that, I’ve never been up close to a p6
My alternator is 14.5 volts when engine runs
Do we expect to see the Rover at Rustival 2?? If the P6 has it's way I am going to say no 😂😂
Maybe if I add a beavertail truck to the fleet...
Do you have a battery isolator switch?
no, Ive had trouble with them before
@@furiousdriving Yes, I have had them shake loose.
Think you should name her Sleek Rover from the reg plate.
I already call it Sleeze for that!
Both P6’s to Rustival 2?
Isn’t that an English car and you are surprised it doesn’t start. Wow!
I would have expected 13.6 or bit more out of the alternator with a low battery
I wouldn't recommend a high output alternator on a classic car. Firstly, you really don't need it; classics are rarely driven at night with all the lights, heaters and wipers going flat out (which the standard alternator is designed to cope with). Secondly, high output alternators are harder to turn (more power out needs more power in) so more likely to make the belt slip and squeal. Thirdly, more power means more current through old wires so, if anything's going to let the smoke out, it'll be more likely.
Finally, your reasoning (this engine will suck more 'oomph') really doesn't hold up. The ignition system won't need any more power that the original engine (maybe even less with the electronic system). The starter might draw a few more amps but it will soon charge up once running.
Damn. 😢 that thing is a curse 🤬
English electrics never seize to amaze me.😅
Have you thought about strongborg twin carburettors or an su balancer for perfect fuel distributions 👍🏻.
Or twin joke twin Weber carburettors only £4000 and a bit yes £4 grand crazy money but it could push BHP 550 HERS POWER ONLY MAD PEOPLE WOULD DO THIS 😂😢🤨😭🤣🙂👍🏻 I'M MAD.
YOU REALLY HAVE TO KEEP THIS BABBY ON Z RO AD
Time to buy a HGV Battery.. and a small trailer 😂😂
Just like mine its decided to having an oil leak.
Teething troubles
Remember to use one of your mom's old wooden clothes pegs, plastic modern one's are rubbish by comparison!
loose belt maybe
no, thats tight
4:58 That +ve battery terminal is loose!!!
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that. Easy, easy problem to fix.
British engineering never ceases to amaze me.
The position of that power lead into the bulkhead near the pedals. Whoever thought that was a good idea clearly must have knocked their head too hard one too many times.
Hello guys, anyone can help me to choose my first car? I'm from Argentina, my budget is 5.000.000 (almost 5000$), i was looking for a vw gol gl 94'
I love hatchback cars
If someone can recommend me a good car i'll aprecciate that
It looks like an old Motorola. Easy to replace the voltage regulator if the spares are still available. I had P6 3500 and a Truimph 2000 here in South Afica about 36 to 38 years ago 😊
I can’t see the appeal tbh.
The thing is plagued with problems
Would it not be better to just scrap the car?