The only flaw of the Su-27 its Fkn gigaint, almost the same size as a Bomber, so in a dogfight if the enemy managed to get your back you gonna get shot easily, maybe survive but will lost some parts
I play british gripen & its hilarious seeing SU's thinking they can out-turn me, they end up as a huge floating target when their speed drops for an easy aim-9m or cannon kill, but their R27-ER's are objectively the best missile in the game,wouldnt want to get caught high in the air with one of them locked on me
When the Fox 3 get added the Gripen will be the best. The only thing that the grippy lacks rn is long range msl, it got almost everything to be at 1st place. But in game the gripen is the best jet, since long range missiles only works against aircrafts with long range missiles, is impossible to kill a Gripen from far away, and if it gets to close, is the end for you.
Wrong. As a big time F-16 fan, lover, and player....I can defintively say I have only been gunned down by 1 Gripen (of which i then went into more dogfights with him, guns only, and then after he admitted he lowered his fuel amount so did I....very quickly I killed just about every time with the exception of the first or second turn where he got the nose on faster. once i for sure left the F-16 minimal fuel like he was doing so we could have a very specifically balanced and straight forward as possible duel....I believe I killed him 5 times to his 2 times killing me from that point) The Gripen just lacks the energy management, meaning all the F-16, F-15, Su-27, and Mig-29 have to do is live long enough which becomes easy with those aircraft that always have some of the best energy management. Now the Gripen is still a great aircafts (one of my favorites to fight because it is still a challenge), it's just not F-16 great, of which I don't even put the F-16 as the best aircraft in WT rn (my top 5 are Su-27, Mig-29, F-15, F-16, Gripen. BVR matters first and foremost even if Gaijin modelled the radar missiles wrong).
@@nomikomaryu5049 as someone who plays the su 27, i find the gripen to be a tiny bit more capable at rate fighting. The su-27 cannot sustain its high turn rate without losing too much speed, and it kind of becomes a brick if you lose too much. I found the gripen a very strong competitor for the su-27. That thing has an amazing sustained turn rate, whereas the 27 will lose a lot of speed when turning. Its optimal flight curve for turn fighting is around 650-750 kph, but it wont necessarily hold that speed for too long if you stretch it too far. It will lose speed quick, and might be a bit of a challenge to regain its speed - note its heavy. It flies amazing, but the gripen has a very slight edge due to it being a delta wing and a canard. Im pretty sure the su-27 line would be much more impressive if one of the canard sukhoys would be introduced. But that will have to wait. Mind you I found the Mig23 MLA to be a better rate fighter in certain conditions than the su 27. But obviously the latter has the HMD and the 73 which is a huge help for dogfight, even though it doesnt work well (i am playing in VR, and while it works in the cockpit, it doesnt work in 3rd person view) Edit: to put it in perspective the flankers excellent manoeuvrability is bet. 650-750 kph, but it struggles hard with energy retention below around 1000 kph The gripens energy retention is closer to its highest manoeuvrability speed.
@@loneirregular1280 While yes the Su-27 isn't a great rate fighter, it's a pretty good 1-circle fighter. We do need to take everything into account, so let's do so. The Su-27 has a great acceleration and while it bleeds energy unlike anything else, it can regain energy pretty well. Now it can't do this indefinitely like the F-15 can, but it can regain energy better than the Gripen. The Gripen may have a better turn rate than the 27, but it does not keep energy that well. It bleeds energy easily and struggles to gain it back. The Su-27 (you can correct me on this) has a slight advantage in regaining that energy. Let's also not forget the Su-27 can pull 3 back to back cobras in the 1 circle fight which can allow you to aim faster than them and get off an easy R-73 shot if the Gripen is unsuspecting of it. Again the whole name of the game against a Gripen is energy management and longer dogfight. The Gripen gets some of if not the best first and second turns in the game, but after that it's a struggle bus. Now if the Gripen pilot does better energy management then he can stay in the fight for a few extra turns but kinda struggles after that. Now the Su-27, is it a great bfm fighter? No. It's outdone by most of its enemies in those bfm fights....but most of its enemies are F-15's and F-16's (the queens of 1-circle, 2-circle fighting. And energy management), then a soon to be F-18 (another queen of the 1-circle fighting). When it comes to delta wing aircrafts like the Mirage 2k or Gripen though, it can prevail if piloted for energy management in mind. Hard, but very doable.
@@nomikomaryu5049 No sukhoy will probably ever pull 3 cobras in a one turn. I That move is an energy dump. The problem is that the flanker will have a worse energy retention in its optimal peak turn rate, you can pull high aoas yes but it will come with a huge energy loss. 3 cobras for me seem a lot in a 1 circle fight. Even 1 is too much. About regaining it, trust me the flanker suffers there as well: it is a huge and very heavy aircraft. The TTW ratios are nearly identical when fully armed and fueled, id say the gripen has the upper hand in that case. The flanker will have the advantage in TTW when missiles start to miss from the pylons and fuel state drops low enough. The problem is that the gripen was designed from the ground up with the delta wings in mind, including the turn rate, and the brake-like acting of its wings in a dogfight. Both are great aircraft. As I said the very few dogfights I had with the flanker against the gripen were always very tight, but the gripen always won by a small margin. It is the number of flares on it that is astonishing on the gripen. When they easily flare your 73s off (all of them) you know you face a great aircraft and a great pilot. I could pull high aoa and high g moves, it will energy trap the Flanker to very slow speeds where it will lose its manoeuvrability. So yeah both are great, but the gripen has a very small advantage due to the canards. The reason why the flanker will suffer regaining energy is that even though it has a higher thrust, the aircraft is heavy unlike the gripen. It needs a lot more total thrust to overcome its inherent inertia, than the gripen. Optimal speed TTW with higher loads is very close in both. Mind you those dogfights with the gripen were my most memorable ones.
(Sorry for long Comment) Yeah… the cobra doesn’t do much in game. If someone forces the dogfight with the flanker, the aircraft that retains its energy better will win. That means if you’re in a gripen, an F-15 or an F-16, all you gotta do is skim the ground or notch the initial missile launch and pre flare into the merge. Once there it’s so easy, you just hold elevator and wait while managing speed. It’s dogfighting 101 at that point. Overall nice list. Although you said you were including all the capabilities of each plane, including multirole/air to ground capability in their overall score. Even the F-15’s with three GBU-8’s are more competitive at CAS than the Su-27. You must admit that saying that “there’s other planes you can use in the tech tree” is unfair to factor into a single aircraft’s score. IMO, the Su-27 excels at one/two things only: BVR and sneak attacks. Although it fits the ARB meta well, it lacks in almost all the other game modes
I'll agree with most of that tbh..however. One thing that 's been fun to do is watch people try to utilize that cobra. If the Su-27 pilot is somewhat smart in energy management, they can pull about 3 maaaaybe 4 cobras back to back. why does that matter? I think without a doubt we can say the Su-27 is a bvr and 1-circle fighter, just what it excels at compared to other aspects. Well pull the cobra while in a 1-circle fight allows you to pull your nose so well that you can either get a snapshot or easy R-73 shot. Now for me that doesnt matter anymore mainly because while it caught me offgaurd at first, it quickly became easy to know that all the F-16, F-15, Gripen, Mirage 2k, Mirage 4k, or Mig-29 to just preflare shortly after the merge to easily evade and continue into the easy dogfight.
@@christopherchartier3017 Yeah. Which is why the F-16 is my favorite aircraft. Just so easy to dictate any fight against any aircraft, also its just amazing at every kind of bfm fight. Just wanted to add that so all things are accounted for...doesn't mean the Su-27 holds the bfm fight better, but holds slightly more than most think.
@@christopherchartier3017 Again. Wasn't saying it stood more of a chance, was just saying something about the cobra that was surprisingly nit as useless as even I thought. BTW. What about the Mirages?
With the way the meta is atm I’d probably say that the f16c and the gripen are better bc no-one wants to fly high to make the er effective and both of those aircraft win in a dogfight against the flanker
I'd still say BVR matters more. I'm an F-16 lover and I still won't put the current F-16C in WT on the top 3. Just because some won't fly high for a BVR advantage doesn't make it any less of the better aircraft. It has nothing to do with what players would do, more of what it's capable of, at least what I believe.
Tbh the Po 2M should in the number 1 spot goes over Mach 3 better turn rate than the grippen has 300 countermeasures and don’t get me started on the armaments
SU-27 and dogfight? Nah that thing loses all of its energy in one turn and loses to every other 12.7 except Maybe the m29SMT. Gripen is Nummer one for me because Radar missiles dont really matter that much. You can easily avoid them by hugging the ground. Therefor half of the Flankers Arsenal is useless against good players. I agree with the Rest tho except Maybe change the mig29smt and g in places because I think flight performance matters more than Radar but that Personal preference. Great video, please make more of that kind.
Well if you-re going for best flight performance, why not the F-16C or F15? I've only been gunned down once by a Gripen (me flying the F-16C). It is a great aircraft (my second favorite to dogfight, first belongs to fight the F-16C), especially if you're a good shot, but it doesn't hold energy as well as the F-16 nor has the F-15's energy management.
Imma throw in my personal opinion here. Gripen, top 10 yes...but not above the F-16. As a player who loves the F-16, I've played it nonstop and love it when i get into a bfm dogfight....especially against a maneuverable target like the Gripen. Ever since the Gripen was added, I have only been shot down by 1 in a bfm dogfight (however this does exclude the deaths i suffered due to smart and sneaky Aim-9M from where i couldn't see). I decided to take that as an opportunity to see truly how good the Gripen is and asked for a duel with the pilot and he had accepted....I came to some underwhelming results. The Gripen acts much like any dorito, it bleeds speed super easily and energy retention is a bit worse compared to that of the F-16C and Mig-29A, not by much but is noticeable and easy to take advantage of. Now the Gripen I will say is a probably better than the F-16 in a 1-circle fight, but it cannot hold the energy to stay in that fight. The role the Gripen gives is much like the Mirage 2k and Mirage 4k, 1-circle and end the fight as quickly as possible. Mig-29's, Su-27's, F16's, and F-15's all have either great energy retention or can regain energy better than any other aircraft which allows them to jink long enough to make the Gripen, mirage 2k, or Mirage 4k lose all energy allowing you to just demolish any of them. This doesn't mean it's bad, if you're a great shot, yeah you're gonna kick some butt. Just energy management is very important and the Gripen doesn't have the same kind of energy management like the soviet or american aircrafts do. My top 5, which probably is gonna stay that way until either Fox-3's even the bvr playing field or 5th gen fighters get added are this. 1. Su-27, all variants (when it comes to a dogfight bvr is most important, and the Su-27 currently holds to be the best bvr fighter) 2. Mig-29, all variants (with the best bvr missile it owns the skies before you see it as a pixel, along with a pretty good flight performance (the second best flight performance in the game) it's clear the Mig-29 can hold it's own in any situation. just lacks the missile count of the Su-27) 3. F-15, all variants (Bvr rules the skies, and while the radar isn't TWS it still holds 4 decent radar missiles and 4 really good IR missiles. that along with its better flight performance than the Su-27 puts it up in 3rd) 4. F-16C (While only carrying 2 radar missiles and 4 IR missiles, it makes up in versatility. While it's BVR isn't as capable as the F-15, it still makes up in every other aspect. It has the best Flight Performance than any other aircraft in top tier along with a heck of an Air-Ground loadouts for a multi-role fighter. That and it is the only 4th gen aircraft so far to make an entire community to quit playing top tier sim (seriously, F-16C came out and no enemy players came to fight in the F-16C's fighting ring)) 5. Gripen (It has a great flight performance just lacks in prolonged fights and energy management...plus only skyflashes, I can't put it up above the other 4. it's BVR isn't desirable and its Flight performance, while probably catching a not bfm knowing player by surprise, will not catch someone even slightly bfm knowing players to smoke it. It's great for a large majority of the WT playerbase that don't understand what energy means in a dogfight, just not as great as you then later learn about bfm and still in that aircraft against anyone even slightly knowledgeable in the top 4 aircaft)
Those two are not coming to the game any time soon, possibly never. The Meteor is widely considered to be the best BVR missile in the world today and is almost impossible to defeat inside like 40km, while the IRS-T is basically a European equivalent of the AIM-9X. It will get the AIM-120 or maybe the MICA RF (very unlikely).
@@thatonelocalauthority2809 I will say this. The Meteor has the same range as the R-77 and Aim-120. It goes .5 mach faster, however it only pulls 11g. It doesn't seem that good of a missile. It's a less maneuverable version of what we're getting
It’d be even more broken than it is now if its flight model wasn’t nerfed, and even more players would be mad at getting a made-up F-15 variant to combat it.
Tbh id say the thing between the su27 vs the f16c and gripen is that the latter planes destroy it in a dogfight. I’d say that the su27 is the best for air rb but if you took them to a 1v1 and cloned a pilot for equal skill the gripen will win almost everytime barring an r73 ignoring flares
honestly, i agree that the su-27 is probably the best overall, but i have to say that the grippen has t obe number 1. just look at the gripen's win ratio in air RB compared to the SU-27, it's absolutely brutal
Agree with F-15. Pleasantly suprised given the hate. Actually had a lot of kills with AIM- 7 (but not BVR). It's more enjoyable than Flanker. I think I really get confused once I fiddle with radars and bvm tactics. Too many planes in the air. I can perform better BVR combat with the large maps or with less players. But F-16 really is a no brainer. I am a China/Japan player.
Only thing id switch is the Gripen to be "1TH" (Lol i think you forgot to change some text) and the SU-27 being 2nd, I haven't flown either but using an F-16C agaonst them is a scary fight
I sweared I've changed that haha dont know what happened, but yeah I lot of people would prefer the gripen and tbh when the fox3's are added, even myself might say that haha
I agree 100% with the list, but I play better with Mirage-2000, I will never understand that, it's love or aliens. Now this list would be totally different from Gaijin, as it itself admits on the forums, modifying flight model configurations and weapon performance, and deliberately not including some weapons from the Western bloc for the sake of balance.
I mean the grippen and SU-27 have reversed issues the SU-27 loses in the merge to most aircraft that it sees, but it has the best BVR combat with the 6 enhanced r-27's , BUT it lacks the ability to win extended dog figths with f-16's mig-29's f-15's and grippen's so which one you put in first really depends on how much power you think there is in BVR combat
Sooo, I've flown the F-16C almost exclusively (Also fly the F-15, F-14, F-4, F-5, and just started onto the Mig-23....just not nearly like the F-16C). And i can definitively say the Gripen is not all that. In the entire time the Gripen has been put in the game, I have only been shot down by 1 Gripen player. I then asked this player for a duel, of which for the large majority it was an even fight maybe even leaning towards the Gripen. There I learned that he has been keeping the fuel amount low on purpose to keep an advantage (he had confessed it after I had asked about it...I was flying full tank keeping the score relatively even). Once I learned that I bumped my Fuel down to the same amount as his.....it wasn't even close. Out of the seven fights we had when bumped it down permanently (I had bumped it up and took it back down multiple times to see if fuel amount was truly the problem, of which it was the problem) , i killed him 5 and he killed me 2 times. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great aircraft, just isn't as much as you think it is. It's lack of energy management means it can't survive an extended fight that any american or soviet aircraft thrive in. Thing is its like any dorito aircraft, bad energy management, great 1-circle fighter, but needs the fight to end quickly. If you're a great shot, yeah its gonna be one of the best aircraft, but if you go against someone who knows slightly of bfm and energy management very quickly the Gripen struggles the longer the fight.
@@a.e.richardson218 Not really...even then i was easily outrating it. The one Gripen that gunned me down was actually shortly after the "nerf" (cam we really call it a nerf when it barely changed the actual way it fights?).
Grippen is MUCH better suited for the air RB meta than the flanker. BVR is not the meta and will never be the meta so long as radar multipathing remains in its current state.
@@MarlyGnar it's actually a skill issue if you cant dodge ER's in top tier, legit just hug the ground it's that easy The 9M is usually more reliable than the R73 and the Gripen runs circles around flanker in a dogfight
is anyone having issues in warthunder since the new update? once i load the game it just freezes everything but my arrow, ive tried verifying my files an uninstalling an reinstalling but nothing worked. plz help
the video should be titled ranking all top tier jets in war thunder because these are all top tier lol, and also it should be noted that this is air reaslistic only because otherwise in CAS barak would probably be no.1
Saying the Mig29 and especially the pile of ass (SMT) is better than the F15 is wild. Then again this list is assuming BVR is a viable thing in Warthunder, Which it is so far from the meta its not even funny.
@sanmiguel4774 it can carry two ERs which are good sure, but seeing as nobody is flying in orbit to make consistent good use of them it's a wash. The R73s aren't better than 9ms, just different. The flight performance of the SMT is complete shit. The G is pretty decent, though so that might be an argument however the 15 has the best overall flight performance in the game.
@@InterstellarTacothe F-15 lacks dogfight performance (can only rate fight, otherwise known as easy target to hit with a missile, and only gets 4x usable dogfight missiles) and HMD in comparison to the SMT
@@InterstellarTaco F-15 best flight performance? Hell nah the Gripen and the F16As whoop the floor with that thing. The teason why the SMT deserves to Be higher is because its okay flight performance (its still a Mig29 so flight performance is not bad) is backed up by funi HMD R73 and is has more Flares (wich are large caliber too btw) and the cracked Radar together with the ER
Agreed with your list but you feel magic 2 good after the buff??? Me i feel them trash....same as 1! They love so much flares even the 2! Where is the IRCCM?? And don't tell me : "because people pre flare", its wrong. If ennemy take care of his six (yes i speak about be on his back because crap from face or front side with proxy fuse delay 1.8 sec!), and flare when you fire your magic 2, the missile rush the first flare he see even out of the screen. Fuck off so tired. Even 9L resist more! Slightly better in SIm than in Realistic but no IRCCM for sure! Andour 530D/F....so slow and miss sometimes. Where are our Mach 5.5??? MBDA even use the launcher for the first MICA
keep this quality of the videos its much fun than the normal gameplay
will do :)
F-14B is number 10th in my heart
At 12.0 this thing makes lots of fun
daaaamn the quality has jumped so high
just imagine around this time in 2025 we will probably have eurofighter and rafale and probably f-18 this december or maybe even earllier than that.
@@GoodGuyRuska- i want f22
@@cooling2.0 you’re unhinged and I love it
@@GoodGuyRuska- do you know if the f22 will come out in the game
The only flaw of the Su-27 its Fkn gigaint, almost the same size as a Bomber, so in a dogfight if the enemy managed to get your back you gonna get shot easily, maybe survive but will lost some parts
Maybe u can turn off my Su but u cannot turn off my R73s
Yea lets just ignore its turn rate in game is like 5 deg/s slower than what it should be 😂
@@stringzzzzz True
And its nerfed to the point where it can't dogfight anything ❤
I play british gripen & its hilarious seeing SU's thinking they can out-turn me, they end up as a huge floating target when their speed drops for an easy aim-9m or cannon kill, but their R27-ER's are objectively the best missile in the game,wouldnt want to get caught high in the air with one of them locked on me
10 best jets at top tier: top tier jets
I like how the gripen is number tooth
And the F-16C is threeth
I hate how the F-15 eagle isn't oneth
1. SU-27
2. Gripen
3. F16C
4. F15C
5.Mirage 2000 CS-4/5
6. F16D
7. Mig29G
8. Mig29SMT
9. F14B
10. F16 blk 20
When the Fox 3 get added the Gripen will be the best. The only thing that the grippy lacks rn is long range msl, it got almost everything to be at 1st place.
But in game the gripen is the best jet, since long range missiles only works against aircrafts with long range missiles, is impossible to kill a Gripen from far away, and if it gets to close, is the end for you.
Wrong.
As a big time F-16 fan, lover, and player....I can defintively say I have only been gunned down by 1 Gripen (of which i then went into more dogfights with him, guns only, and then after he admitted he lowered his fuel amount so did I....very quickly I killed just about every time with the exception of the first or second turn where he got the nose on faster. once i for sure left the F-16 minimal fuel like he was doing so we could have a very specifically balanced and straight forward as possible duel....I believe I killed him 5 times to his 2 times killing me from that point) The Gripen just lacks the energy management, meaning all the F-16, F-15, Su-27, and Mig-29 have to do is live long enough which becomes easy with those aircraft that always have some of the best energy management.
Now the Gripen is still a great aircafts (one of my favorites to fight because it is still a challenge), it's just not F-16 great, of which I don't even put the F-16 as the best aircraft in WT rn (my top 5 are Su-27, Mig-29, F-15, F-16, Gripen. BVR matters first and foremost even if Gaijin modelled the radar missiles wrong).
@@nomikomaryu5049 as someone who plays the su 27, i find the gripen to be a tiny bit more capable at rate fighting. The su-27 cannot sustain its high turn rate without losing too much speed, and it kind of becomes a brick if you lose too much. I found the gripen a very strong competitor for the su-27. That thing has an amazing sustained turn rate, whereas the 27 will lose a lot of speed when turning. Its optimal flight curve for turn fighting is around 650-750 kph, but it wont necessarily hold that speed for too long if you stretch it too far. It will lose speed quick, and might be a bit of a challenge to regain its speed - note its heavy. It flies amazing, but the gripen has a very slight edge due to it being a delta wing and a canard. Im pretty sure the su-27 line would be much more impressive if one of the canard sukhoys would be introduced. But that will have to wait.
Mind you I found the Mig23 MLA to be a better rate fighter in certain conditions than the su 27. But obviously the latter has the HMD and the 73 which is a huge help for dogfight, even though it doesnt work well (i am playing in VR, and while it works in the cockpit, it doesnt work in 3rd person view)
Edit: to put it in perspective the flankers excellent manoeuvrability is bet. 650-750 kph, but it struggles hard with energy retention below around 1000 kph
The gripens energy retention is closer to its highest manoeuvrability speed.
Wrong, MICA rule normally! After aim 120. And FOx already exist with Soviet R27ER....
@@loneirregular1280 While yes the Su-27 isn't a great rate fighter, it's a pretty good 1-circle fighter.
We do need to take everything into account, so let's do so.
The Su-27 has a great acceleration and while it bleeds energy unlike anything else, it can regain energy pretty well. Now it can't do this indefinitely like the F-15 can, but it can regain energy better than the Gripen.
The Gripen may have a better turn rate than the 27, but it does not keep energy that well. It bleeds energy easily and struggles to gain it back. The Su-27 (you can correct me on this) has a slight advantage in regaining that energy.
Let's also not forget the Su-27 can pull 3 back to back cobras in the 1 circle fight which can allow you to aim faster than them and get off an easy R-73 shot if the Gripen is unsuspecting of it.
Again the whole name of the game against a Gripen is energy management and longer dogfight. The Gripen gets some of if not the best first and second turns in the game, but after that it's a struggle bus. Now if the Gripen pilot does better energy management then he can stay in the fight for a few extra turns but kinda struggles after that.
Now the Su-27, is it a great bfm fighter? No. It's outdone by most of its enemies in those bfm fights....but most of its enemies are F-15's and F-16's (the queens of 1-circle, 2-circle fighting. And energy management), then a soon to be F-18 (another queen of the 1-circle fighting). When it comes to delta wing aircrafts like the Mirage 2k or Gripen though, it can prevail if piloted for energy management in mind. Hard, but very doable.
@@nomikomaryu5049
No sukhoy will probably ever pull 3 cobras in a one turn. I
That move is an energy dump.
The problem is that the flanker will have a worse energy retention in its optimal peak turn rate, you can pull high aoas yes but it will come with a huge energy loss. 3 cobras for me seem a lot in a 1 circle fight. Even 1 is too much.
About regaining it, trust me the flanker suffers there as well: it is a huge and very heavy aircraft. The TTW ratios are nearly identical when fully armed and fueled, id say the gripen has the upper hand in that case. The flanker will have the advantage in TTW when missiles start to miss from the pylons and fuel state drops low enough.
The problem is that the gripen was designed from the ground up with the delta wings in mind, including the turn rate, and the brake-like acting of its wings in a dogfight.
Both are great aircraft. As I said the very few dogfights I had with the flanker against the gripen were always very tight, but the gripen always won by a small margin.
It is the number of flares on it that is astonishing on the gripen. When they easily flare your 73s off (all of them) you know you face a great aircraft and a great pilot. I could pull high aoa and high g moves, it will energy trap the Flanker to very slow speeds where it will lose its manoeuvrability.
So yeah both are great, but the gripen has a very small advantage due to the canards.
The reason why the flanker will suffer regaining energy is that even though it has a higher thrust, the aircraft is heavy unlike the gripen. It needs a lot more total thrust to overcome its inherent inertia, than the gripen.
Optimal speed TTW with higher loads is very close in both.
Mind you those dogfights with the gripen were my most memorable ones.
(Sorry for long Comment) Yeah… the cobra doesn’t do much in game. If someone forces the dogfight with the flanker, the aircraft that retains its energy better will win. That means if you’re in a gripen, an F-15 or an F-16, all you gotta do is skim the ground or notch the initial missile launch and pre flare into the merge. Once there it’s so easy, you just hold elevator and wait while managing speed. It’s dogfighting 101 at that point.
Overall nice list. Although you said you were including all the capabilities of each plane, including multirole/air to ground capability in their overall score. Even the F-15’s with three GBU-8’s are more competitive at CAS than the Su-27. You must admit that saying that “there’s other planes you can use in the tech tree” is unfair to factor into a single aircraft’s score. IMO, the Su-27 excels at one/two things only: BVR and sneak attacks. Although it fits the ARB meta well, it lacks in almost all the other game modes
I'll agree with most of that tbh..however. One thing that 's been fun to do is watch people try to utilize that cobra.
If the Su-27 pilot is somewhat smart in energy management, they can pull about 3 maaaaybe 4 cobras back to back. why does that matter? I think without a doubt we can say the Su-27 is a bvr and 1-circle fighter, just what it excels at compared to other aspects. Well pull the cobra while in a 1-circle fight allows you to pull your nose so well that you can either get a snapshot or easy R-73 shot.
Now for me that doesnt matter anymore mainly because while it caught me offgaurd at first, it quickly became easy to know that all the F-16, F-15, Gripen, Mirage 2k, Mirage 4k, or Mig-29 to just preflare shortly after the merge to easily evade and continue into the easy dogfight.
@@nomikomaryu5049 Yeah. I mean it’s so easy to force the 2 circle against it you basically don’t have to worry about the cobra
@@christopherchartier3017 Yeah. Which is why the F-16 is my favorite aircraft. Just so easy to dictate any fight against any aircraft, also its just amazing at every kind of bfm fight.
Just wanted to add that so all things are accounted for...doesn't mean the Su-27 holds the bfm fight better, but holds slightly more than most think.
@@nomikomaryu5049 It’s far from hopeless in a dogfight. But if you’re in a gripen, F15 or F16… you shouldn’t be worried about merging with a flanker
@@christopherchartier3017 Again. Wasn't saying it stood more of a chance, was just saying something about the cobra that was surprisingly nit as useless as even I thought.
BTW. What about the Mirages?
With the way the meta is atm I’d probably say that the f16c and the gripen are better bc no-one wants to fly high to make the er effective and both of those aircraft win in a dogfight against the flanker
I'd still say BVR matters more.
I'm an F-16 lover and I still won't put the current F-16C in WT on the top 3.
Just because some won't fly high for a BVR advantage doesn't make it any less of the better aircraft. It has nothing to do with what players would do, more of what it's capable of, at least what I believe.
P-26 Peashooter is the best.
Change my mind
Po-2 is the best because it has scored a jet kill IRL, unlike your P-26. P-26 is not even a biplane.
@@qltcn cry
My god Matt, you have stepped up the quality of your videos and it suits them very very well. Keep up the good work. Amazing!
Amazing Video i love the aircraft Clips.
Keep up the good work❤
Tbh the Po 2M should in the number 1 spot goes over Mach 3 better turn rate than the grippen has 300 countermeasures and don’t get me started on the armaments
SU-27 and dogfight? Nah that thing loses all of its energy in one turn and loses to every other 12.7 except Maybe the m29SMT. Gripen is Nummer one for me because Radar missiles dont really matter that much. You can easily avoid them by hugging the ground. Therefor half of the Flankers Arsenal is useless against good players. I agree with the Rest tho except Maybe change the mig29smt and g in places because I think flight performance matters more than Radar but that Personal preference.
Great video, please make more of that kind.
doesn't even make sense in war thunder us aircraft are better dogfighters than russian and russia has better missiles and bvr, makes no sense.
@@Brzzzyexe Yeah, it was supposed to be the other way around...
Very good points. 100% agree with you on the Mig 29 situation. Swap places
Well if you-re going for best flight performance, why not the F-16C or F15?
I've only been gunned down once by a Gripen (me flying the F-16C). It is a great aircraft (my second favorite to dogfight, first belongs to fight the F-16C), especially if you're a good shot, but it doesn't hold energy as well as the F-16 nor has the F-15's energy management.
Tbh id keep the g and smt in their places as the smt had way more counter measures
Grandes........faltou o F14B.
when fox3 are comings if the mica er is the same as in dev then the mirage will become the best
Missiles - Radar? Su-27, maybe if you count their 6 on 6 capability F-14B
Missiles - IR? F-15J with its 40g Irccm AAM-3
Flight Performance? Gripen
Imma throw in my personal opinion here.
Gripen, top 10 yes...but not above the F-16.
As a player who loves the F-16, I've played it nonstop and love it when i get into a bfm dogfight....especially against a maneuverable target like the Gripen. Ever since the Gripen was added, I have only been shot down by 1 in a bfm dogfight (however this does exclude the deaths i suffered due to smart and sneaky Aim-9M from where i couldn't see). I decided to take that as an opportunity to see truly how good the Gripen is and asked for a duel with the pilot and he had accepted....I came to some underwhelming results. The Gripen acts much like any dorito, it bleeds speed super easily and energy retention is a bit worse compared to that of the F-16C and Mig-29A, not by much but is noticeable and easy to take advantage of. Now the Gripen I will say is a probably better than the F-16 in a 1-circle fight, but it cannot hold the energy to stay in that fight. The role the Gripen gives is much like the Mirage 2k and Mirage 4k, 1-circle and end the fight as quickly as possible.
Mig-29's, Su-27's, F16's, and F-15's all have either great energy retention or can regain energy better than any other aircraft which allows them to jink long enough to make the Gripen, mirage 2k, or Mirage 4k lose all energy allowing you to just demolish any of them.
This doesn't mean it's bad, if you're a great shot, yeah you're gonna kick some butt. Just energy management is very important and the Gripen doesn't have the same kind of energy management like the soviet or american aircrafts do.
My top 5, which probably is gonna stay that way until either Fox-3's even the bvr playing field or 5th gen fighters get added are this.
1. Su-27, all variants (when it comes to a dogfight bvr is most important, and the Su-27 currently holds to be the best bvr fighter)
2. Mig-29, all variants (with the best bvr missile it owns the skies before you see it as a pixel, along with a pretty good flight performance (the second best flight performance in the game) it's clear the Mig-29 can hold it's own in any situation. just lacks the missile count of the Su-27)
3. F-15, all variants (Bvr rules the skies, and while the radar isn't TWS it still holds 4 decent radar missiles and 4 really good IR missiles. that along with its better flight performance than the Su-27 puts it up in 3rd)
4. F-16C (While only carrying 2 radar missiles and 4 IR missiles, it makes up in versatility. While it's BVR isn't as capable as the F-15, it still makes up in every other aspect. It has the best Flight Performance than any other aircraft in top tier along with a heck of an Air-Ground loadouts for a multi-role fighter. That and it is the only 4th gen aircraft so far to make an entire community to quit playing top tier sim (seriously, F-16C came out and no enemy players came to fight in the F-16C's fighting ring))
5. Gripen (It has a great flight performance just lacks in prolonged fights and energy management...plus only skyflashes, I can't put it up above the other 4. it's BVR isn't desirable and its Flight performance, while probably catching a not bfm knowing player by surprise, will not catch someone even slightly bfm knowing players to smoke it. It's great for a large majority of the WT playerbase that don't understand what energy means in a dogfight, just not as great as you then later learn about bfm and still in that aircraft against anyone even slightly knowledgeable in the top 4 aircaft)
Mirage 4000 is funny cause it's a twin engine triangle.
Yay💀
Gripens doesn´t need the AIM120 it needs their Meteors and thier IRS-T
Aim-120's would still be good choice. Longer range, just doesn't turn like the Meteor
Those two are not coming to the game any time soon, possibly never. The Meteor is widely considered to be the best BVR missile in the world today and is almost impossible to defeat inside like 40km, while the IRS-T is basically a European equivalent of the AIM-9X.
It will get the AIM-120 or maybe the MICA RF (very unlikely).
Meteors and IRS-Ts would demolish absolutely everything in game, they’d be too overpowered without significant nerfs.
@@thatonelocalauthority2809 I will say this. The Meteor has the same range as the R-77 and Aim-120. It goes .5 mach faster, however it only pulls 11g.
It doesn't seem that good of a missile. It's a less maneuverable version of what we're getting
Amazing amazing vids keep em up !!
Pls do top cas top tier aircraft pls !!!
What camera angle is he using in the intro i wanna use it myself
funfuct the su27 is nerfed in maneuverability in wt i real life is turning way better and and it doesn't lose speed so easily
It’d be even more broken than it is now if its flight model wasn’t nerfed, and even more players would be mad at getting a made-up F-15 variant to combat it.
@@Iden_in_the_Raini agree but i think in sim it should be realistic and not nerfed
We can go with 100% real life depictions of aircraft but I think every other jet might get a little jealous of the eagle.
wow this intro is great
1th, 2th, 3th. 💀
how do you capture such good ingame quality video
Tbh id say the thing between the su27 vs the f16c and gripen is that the latter planes destroy it in a dogfight. I’d say that the su27 is the best for air rb but if you took them to a 1v1 and cloned a pilot for equal skill the gripen will win almost everytime barring an r73 ignoring flares
honestly, i agree that the su-27 is probably the best overall, but i have to say that the grippen has t obe number 1. just look at the gripen's win ratio in air RB compared to the SU-27, it's absolutely brutal
Great video as usual but just one quick thing, you said 3th, 2th, and 1th. When it should be 3rd, 2nd, and 1st.👍
Agree with F-15. Pleasantly suprised given the hate. Actually had a lot of kills with AIM- 7 (but not BVR). It's more enjoyable than Flanker. I think I really get confused once I fiddle with radars and bvm tactics. Too many planes in the air. I can perform better BVR combat with the large maps or with less players. But F-16 really is a no brainer. I am a China/Japan player.
I lately started to enjoy the f14b aftet they make it 12 br and the missle buff
Only thing id switch is the Gripen to be "1TH" (Lol i think you forgot to change some text) and the SU-27 being 2nd, I haven't flown either but using an F-16C agaonst them is a scary fight
I sweared I've changed that haha dont know what happened, but yeah I lot of people would prefer the gripen and tbh when the fox3's are added, even myself might say that haha
@@matawg Yeah you might have to do another Top 10 top tier jets video when the Fox3's are added. It's going to be a real big game changer
Screw the skyflash. Just bring 6x Aim 9M and dont give them a single chance. Thats what i do in the Jass 39C
I agree 100% with the list, but I play better with Mirage-2000, I will never understand that, it's love or aliens. Now this list would be totally different from Gaijin, as it itself admits on the forums, modifying flight model configurations and weapon performance, and deliberately not including some weapons from the Western bloc for the sake of balance.
Funny how this whole list changes with fox 3 now
@Pymejca with fox 3s the British gripen is #1 the Swedish is #2 and the su-27 is #3
@@owenc9269Absolutely Not lmao
what about the German mig's arent they good?
com essa mudança no gameplay de fundo o decal exclusivo vem
The video is nice but the m4k should really be higher. I have all the top tier airframes and the m4k is by far the most fun in my opinion
Would like to have an SB top best jets
How is the base f-16 over the base mig-29???
Flight Performance.
I mean the grippen and SU-27 have reversed issues the SU-27 loses in the merge to most aircraft that it sees, but it has the best BVR combat with the 6 enhanced r-27's , BUT it lacks the ability to win extended dog figths with f-16's mig-29's f-15's and grippen's so which one you put in first really depends on how much power you think there is in BVR combat
Sooo, I've flown the F-16C almost exclusively (Also fly the F-15, F-14, F-4, F-5, and just started onto the Mig-23....just not nearly like the F-16C). And i can definitively say the Gripen is not all that.
In the entire time the Gripen has been put in the game, I have only been shot down by 1 Gripen player. I then asked this player for a duel, of which for the large majority it was an even fight maybe even leaning towards the Gripen. There I learned that he has been keeping the fuel amount low on purpose to keep an advantage (he had confessed it after I had asked about it...I was flying full tank keeping the score relatively even). Once I learned that I bumped my Fuel down to the same amount as his.....it wasn't even close. Out of the seven fights we had when bumped it down permanently (I had bumped it up and took it back down multiple times to see if fuel amount was truly the problem, of which it was the problem) , i killed him 5 and he killed me 2 times.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a great aircraft, just isn't as much as you think it is. It's lack of energy management means it can't survive an extended fight that any american or soviet aircraft thrive in. Thing is its like any dorito aircraft, bad energy management, great 1-circle fighter, but needs the fight to end quickly. If you're a great shot, yeah its gonna be one of the best aircraft, but if you go against someone who knows slightly of bfm and energy management very quickly the Gripen struggles the longer the fight.
@@nomikomaryu5049 this may be true at this point since it's sustained rate got nerfed but on release and after the first nerf it out rated everything
@@a.e.richardson218 Not really...even then i was easily outrating it.
The one Gripen that gunned me down was actually shortly after the "nerf" (cam we really call it a nerf when it barely changed the actual way it fights?).
Grippen is MUCH better suited for the air RB meta than the flanker. BVR is not the meta and will never be the meta so long as radar multipathing remains in its current state.
All gaijin had to do is cut the player count in half per match and BVR will be meta
Agreed
Disagree, the flanker can kill the grippen vastly outside of the range of the grippen, and it gets 6 chances to do it. Flanker is king.
@@MarlyGnar it's actually a skill issue if you cant dodge ER's in top tier, legit just hug the ground it's that easy
The 9M is usually more reliable than the R73 and the Gripen runs circles around flanker in a dogfight
M2k #9 SU27 "amazing dogfighter" #1 - ua-cam.com/video/BToSFExReCU/v-deo.html
are there more then 10 aicraft in top tier?
Obviously this is only the top ten aicraft
@@bexgeorge8002 obviously.
the question is, if it makes sense to put up a top 10 aircraft top tier list, when there are barely 10
Vc é brasileiro? Sei la por causa do sotaque do inglês
7:35 hmm 3th
1th lol
2th and 1th?
What’s the next plane you guys think Germany will get after mig-29g?
F4F ICE for sure :)
is anyone having issues in warthunder since the new update? once i load the game it just freezes everything but my arrow, ive tried verifying my files an uninstalling an reinstalling but nothing worked. plz help
I fear a Gripen 100 times more than I fear a SU-27, If you know how to avoid missiles the SU-27 is easy to kill with many different aircraft.
Yeah if a Gripen gets into a close range Engagement with you its pretty much over unless you are in an F16A and then its still hard to beat.
Brasileiro falando em inglês ? wtf
Achei que só eu tinha reparado
Merge with a mirage? Just take it two circle 😂
the video should be titled ranking all top tier jets in war thunder because these are all top tier lol, and also it should be noted that this is air reaslistic only because otherwise in CAS barak would probably be no.1
The F-16C holds what the barak does and more. although close and I do see your point
@@nomikomaryu5049 barak i think actually can carry 8 gbu while c can take 6
@@CROengineer how about explosive tonage? legitimate question. interested in learning about this....especially since the F-16 is my favorite aircraft
SU-27 is the 1th plane of all time
Im sorry but i hate the flanker so fucking much its radar is just so ass. I much prefer other jets
Nah
Saying the Mig29 and especially the pile of ass (SMT) is better than the F15 is wild. Then again this list is assuming BVR is a viable thing in Warthunder, Which it is so far from the meta its not even funny.
Much better missiles soooo?
@sanmiguel4774 it can carry two ERs which are good sure, but seeing as nobody is flying in orbit to make consistent good use of them it's a wash. The R73s aren't better than 9ms, just different. The flight performance of the SMT is complete shit. The G is pretty decent, though so that might be an argument however the 15 has the best overall flight performance in the game.
@@InterstellarTacothe F-15 lacks dogfight performance (can only rate fight, otherwise known as easy target to hit with a missile, and only gets 4x usable dogfight missiles) and HMD in comparison to the SMT
@@InterstellarTaco F-15 best flight performance? Hell nah the Gripen and the F16As whoop the floor with that thing.
The teason why the SMT deserves to Be higher is because its okay flight performance (its still a Mig29 so flight performance is not bad) is backed up by funi HMD R73 and is has more Flares (wich are large caliber too btw) and the cracked Radar together with the ER
42 planes in total i thing for toptier
......3th?
where is the Netz?
Its an F16A so 10th place
@@jaktfalkenwt its dif br and dif missiles. It has the best body combined with python 3 so it has the best of both worlds.
ima buy the mig23ml
'1th' and '2th' 💀
🤣🤣🤣thhhh
F-14B 🎉 I’ll have to respectfully disagree with your list. Good vid as always though.
Agreed with your list but you feel magic 2 good after the buff??? Me i feel them trash....same as 1! They love so much flares even the 2! Where is the IRCCM?? And don't tell me : "because people pre flare", its wrong. If ennemy take care of his six (yes i speak about be on his back because crap from face or front side with proxy fuse delay 1.8 sec!), and flare when you fire your magic 2, the missile rush the first flare he see even out of the screen. Fuck off so tired. Even 9L resist more! Slightly better in SIm than in Realistic but no IRCCM for sure! Andour 530D/F....so slow and miss sometimes. Where are our Mach 5.5??? MBDA even use the launcher for the first MICA
Victor wembenyama
Why isn’t the f22 raptor in the American tech tree it’s literally over 25 years old even the f35 is pushing up on 20 years old 😒😒
I love 1th place. I'm just making fun of your terrible english. anything 4th and up is "Th". 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th,
su27 su27 su27 >:)
F14B replaces the Gripen, in addition to carrying 8 missiles, including AIM 7M and the best BVR missile in the game AIM 54C
best bvr missile in the game rn is the r27er
Blud thinks the phoenix is good and Radar missiles are Meta
I really hope you are being sarcastic.
1th!
Lol the 1th best
1th💀
First to like hehe
First 😂
Skibidi ohio sigma gyat epstein rizz brainrot resembling sentence
@@polsatinter5400😐
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