I’m a beginner starting to learn metalworking at a Makerspace with a well equipped metalshop. These videos are brilliant. It’s teaching techniques and approaches based on huge professional experience. Thank you!
Just seen Olly's latest, and followed his link here. I think I've figured some of this out empirically, but you've put the meat on the bones with this film (and tips #6). Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. I always leave your channel a little wiser 👍 🇬🇧
This explains so much to me that i didn't understand. Despite my best efforts I was having all the issues you mentioned and this explains why, thanks Jon
Great demonstration! Some time ago, Stefan Gotteswinter mentioned just in passing that to hit a tight dimension, the final cut needed to be taken with confidence and a good "bite". That stuck with me, but he didn't elaborate in that particular video. Between the tool edge explanation and your anecdote about dialing in tenths on the CNC until you hit the tipping point and the tool bit in deep, you really clarified the issue for me. Thanks!
I have struggled with chasing finished dia and done all the things you explain in the start of the vid. After this I will impliment what you showed in the latter half and hopefully meet finished dia. Nice tutorial.
Jon this is the second time I have watched this video. I actually put this in use today. I did use a DTI because the marks on my dials are too hard for me to read. My target was .500 O/D + 0 - .001. I was able to hit the .499 using this method. It works quite well. I must confess i made a mental error on the first cut. I meant to take .020 off the diameter on the first of the 3 passes and I dialed in .020 which yielded .040 off the diameter. I caught myself on the first measurement and all was well in the final diameter. Thanks for such great tutoring.
Well, if you would like to do more of this type of instructional video, I am sure there are lots of us out here who would be delighted. As a beginner I had no idea why no matter how small a cut I took with my carbide insert tools, not only could I not hit the dimension but I got a steadily worsening surface finish. I was beginning to think I had a problem with my lathe. Really excellent - thank you. Mitch
Hi Mitch, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful, yep, small cuts and carbide inserts just don't mix (unless they are ground). More on the way in the near future. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon. Watched it twice - very good explanation. Answered a few questions I had not asked myself. The "plowed field" reference is perfect for some results I get with cold rolled. LOL. My lathe is waiting on me to get better and that is clear. Thanks for giving me some things to focus on. As my Karate Master once said "a thousand more sets and then we can talk." LOL. All the best Dan
I found this to be a very clear explanation. I didn't know why I could hit the dimensions when turning aluminium but hardly ever when turning steel and I feel I have learnt something useful here. Thanks for posting this helpful video.
Good video and well explained. It’s a lot easier to get predictable sizes when you understand the variables and have been trained. For guys who haven’t been trained / time served, it must be a mysterious phenomenon to put a cut on of a particular size but actually get a different result. Keep up the good work!
Hi Optical Mechanic, thanks for the comment. Totally agree, hopefully this helps a few out, it's all common sense really but unless you know or have been shown....... Cheers, Jon
Some good tips there, Jon 😊. I learned this the hard way lol. This is a lot more prominent when you run an old, clapped out Atlas, especially with carbide. Lol, I repair cnc machines, we had a guy work half a day, crashed the horizontal cnc mill ripping the whole tombstone off it's base and just walked out without saying a word. Some of these guys I tell ya 🤣. Thanks for the vid! Cheers! 👍😁👍
Hi, thanks for the comment. Totally agree, the older and more worn the machine, the more important this is. Lol I bet that made a nice noise. Cheers, Jon
Thankyou Jon...If you have more all bottled up ....then please unload it onto us ...your knowledge is obviously immense...and your delivery is extemely listenable. we have all come away from this far wiser. Respect...
Hi Philip, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you found it useful and interesting. Don't worry, more to come in the near future, just need to restock the fridge first lol. Cheers, Jon
Absolutely agree. Well presented as well. I have advocated this approach for decades. I would aim, when possible, for 3 balanced finishing cuts of a depth (ie radius) of at least the radius of the insert. On one offs I would test and settle my finish cut settings, like you have here. Then rough down all round leaving that finish material using a roughing tool. Finally, finish machining with confidence, on size and suitable surface. Still easier these days with DRO's but very satisfying and not nerve racking.
Jon, the message hasn't been spread far enough yet. I see other YTers scraping away or sanding to size as 'examples' of good technique. What can I say? I've had kind but critical comments deleted. YT University deserves best practice tutorials. Just my opinion. Anyway, good on you.
Hello Jon, A very good video... I am a big fan of balance cuts and do it all the time on my Myford... Like everything the more you do it the more you become comfortable with the process. Thanks for sharing. Take care. Paul,,
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment. Glad you are using the method, it certainly helps. Well worth the sacrifice of a perfectly good cucumber lol. Cheers, Jon
Gday Jon, excellent excellent video, lots of very useful information to take away and put into practice, I’d really appreciate more videos like this, I could just imagine ol’mate trying to keep up with the cross slide, great job mate, Cheers
Hi Jon Great instructional Video, many hobbyists won't know this, so very informative. When i was at work, they sent me on a weeks seminar, thirty to forty years ago back in the early eighties at Sandvik hq in the West Midlands to learn on this very subject. It is a very interesting involved subject on the numerous variations of sintered carbide inserts and their characteristics that were available back then, its probably even more involved as time has passed since then, mind you i have forgot much of it by now, like most skills and jobs, you need to be working at it all the time to retain all the knowledge, but it brought back memories. Many hobbyist will learn a great deal from this, i wonder how many hobby machinist haven't fathomed out why they can't take thou' cuts with sintered carbide inserts, thinking they are blunt, then cocking up the job on the fourth or fifth attempt when it decides to cut the whole lot off in one!! I better stop here, but you've wetted my appetite on the subject. see you next time take care Kev
Hi Kev, thanks for the comment and supporting thoughts. Yep, I guess you just take it for granted after a while and assume everybody else knows etc. It is only with the advent (topical) of UA-cam, you can see opportunities to help pass on the knowledge. Hopefully this may save a part or two to warrant the sacrifice of a cucumber lol. Cheers, Jon
Very informative Jon, especially the bit about carbide. When I first saw the cucumber, I thought I'd clicked on the wrong kind of video.... Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire.
Hi Dean, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you found it interesting and informative. Lol, I did wonder when I uploaded if I needed to be doing anything ref YT categorisation lol. Cheers, Jon
Great video mate ! A lot of the things you explained like push off and keeping the tool load equal across the machining process are magnified greatly the smaller the machine is as they flex more . Your story reminds me of a guy we had at tech college- billy , he blew up 3 welders in a month and one night I came in to find our teacher laughing hysterically - asked him why and he said he was on his way into work and this guy walked out onto the road in front of him and it was billy - walking around with his oxy goggles on with the shade lense down and this was in the dark 🤣 We got some good laughs from him .
Very interesting way of looking at things, I was always told to split the total to come off in even cuts down to the last one and leave a similar cut for the last one to size rather than a ultra small polishing cut but not told exactly why. Your method explains in a lot more detail why, I will do a bit of experimenting to see if I can carry a good finishing cut down to the line, rather than a good finish all the way till the last fine cut with a terrible finish then emery to try to save looks.
Hi Derek, thanks for the comment. Once you master this, you will never go back. Keep an eye out tomorrow, this week's video gives more detail on the physics behind it all. Cheers, Jon
Hi Kevin, thanks for the comment. Yes, you aren't alone, lol, maybe I need to sacrifice a vegetable more often lol. More on the way in the near future. Cheers, Jon
I just subscribed to your channel and I am really starting to Love it. Thank you so much, very informative video.Please do more videos like this, it’s the type that I find fascinating, Thanks
Hi Carl, thanks for the comment and feedback. Lol, it just sounds like babbling to me but I guess I do try to imagine that I am teaching 1st year apprentices to hopefully not use any jargon and keep it understandable by any new starters. Always hard pitching at the right level as there is such a range of experience out there......... the world is a big classroom lol.
@@jonsworkshop No problem. You are definitely not babbling. It is true what you say regarding knowing where to pitch your delivery. I am currently editing my first ever "proper" youtube film (proper for me at least) about fault finding on DRO systems, and I have had the same thoughts. Hopefully I won't go over anyone's head or teach anyone to suck eggs. For what it is worth, I think you are spot on with your delivery.
Hi James, thanks for the comment and sub, I must sacrifice vegetables more often lol. Mrs Jon's Workshop had to go without a cucumber sandwich because of this lol. Glad you found it useful clarification, thanks for the support. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon Enjoy you videos very much. You touched on a topic which probably frustrates many people. I have found that where the backlash is positioned is important. I machine 4140 steel with a DRO and I find that the tool gets dragged 'into' the work. The DRO confirms this. Therefore it will finish undersize. By feeding into the job the backlast is on the wrong side. Apart from getting rid of all backlash I find that if I move the cross slide past the desired position then back the tool away from the job until the desired dimenion is reached. This way the the worst that can happen is a oversided job. Using this method I take a cut, measure the job and then dial the diameter into the DRO (**Important - all while not moving the cross slide). Do this well in advance of the final cut to get confidence in the repeatability of the process. I agree enirely with what you said about cut depths with respect to repeatability and surface finish. I get a poor finish on 4140 with very light cuts and low surface speed. To get an idea of surface finish have a look at the squared off end. It will have different finishes. This shows visually how surface finish is affected by surface speed. (You said that you are using xNxx inserts. N have zero clearance. Why not a xCxx (7 degree) or xDxx (15 degree) insert.) Cheers John
Hi John, thanks for the comment and sorry for the delay responding. I don't disagree with your method. xNxx do have clearance, it's built into the holder. I mainly use CNMG as I was fortunate to inherit a lot of them (good quality ones) many years ago so they cost me nothing. I do switch to CCMT and VBMT occasionally when material and required surface finish dictate. CNMG is just a work horse which is why I like them, you do need a half decent lathe though, a small hobby lathe just won't have the rigidity or grunt to get the best out of them. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop Hi Jon Thank you for the reply. Since then I have bought a insert tool holder with angled holder to create front clearance. So I can use the N inserts. My lathe is not a hobby lathe it is a 410 x 1000 workshop quality machine. Its power is a bit scary at times. I make a mistake once and took about a 6mm deep cut on power feed. It didn't blink an eyelid. I hit the emergency stop with lighning speed. Cheers.
Hi Jon. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to correspond, it’s very much appreciated. It’s nice to make a connection with a fellow journeyman of the trades, and look forward to watching your other works. I’ll be recommending a subscription to your channel to other local colleagues and contacts. Again all the best in the festive season and a very Merry Christmas. Very best regards. Ron Rogers.
Hi Jon, It's interesting watching carbide v's HSS cut under a microscope. Carbide needs a greater depth of cut as it works like peeling an orange with your thumb. HSS cuts like a knife and having a shave. HSS allows fine incremental cuts but carbide doesn't (unless you grind the insert to a fine edge). Interesting subject. Cheers Rob.
Hi Rob, thanks for the comment. Bang on mate, I have seen so many people struggling with this which prompted me to make the video. Hopefully it will help a few new starters out a bit. It's an interesting topic for sure. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, very informative and very helpful video. This is something I have been struggling with!Hopefully with this new information I will find it much easier. I need to practice and become more confident! Thank you good Sir.
Hi Tony, thanks for the comment, glad you found it useful, practice practice and more practice! Get as many variables locked down as possible rinse and repeat. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon. Excellent presentation and demo. It’s a great technique I favour myself. For those out there just learning, you have given them an excellent foundational start not only in turning to spec but a greater knowledge and understanding of cutting edge geometry and it’s impacts on tool performance. Five stars Jon. Hope this finds you and yours well in this holiday season and a very Merry Christmas. Cheers from Salt Spring Island, Canada. Ron.
Thanks Jon, I have always had problems getting accurate sizes with Inserts. I usually finish with a honed HSS tool. Thanks for explaining why. Regards from Australia.
Hi Dave, thanks for the comment. Glad you found the information useful, I think a future episode digging in deeper on carbide and the grinding of inserts will compliment this. Cheers, Jon
Hi Steve, thanks for the comment. Lol, yep, me too, I did see him strutting around on day 1 being the big man, don't you just love people like that, so entertaining lol. Cheers, Jon
Super video, more please! On really tiny parts, I use ground, honed and polished uncoated carbide inserts with a 0.2 or 0.4 mm radius, so I can take finer cuts than with normal inserts, but I still have to bury the nose to get a good chip and finish exactly as you explain, with all the same variables to consider. I always do 3 or 4 balanced cuts when I'm finishing parts to very tight tolerances, but usually 0.3 or 0.2 mm off the diameter. Getting 50 workpieces to be 3.98 mm +0.0 -0.01 on my old Colchester (with DRO) is no great stress with balanced cuts.
With those smaller steps I use the compound at a shallow angle (about 5.7 degrees) to give me a bit more control over the final size after locking the cross-slide so 0.1 mm on the compound is 0.01 mm (0.02 mm of the diameter).
Hi Machining and Microwaves, thanks for the comment. Looks like I am preaching to the converted here lol. I plan to do some insert grinding in the future, have done it in industry but not at home yet, need to get kitted out with the right wheels for my surface grinder first. Your compound slide trick is also a good tip. More on the way Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop I haven't tried grinding carbide inserts, but I've done plenty of form tools and D-bits in carbide. It will be interesting to see how it goes. One of the other UA-camrs did some insert grinding, can't recall who, but I'd guess Stefan, Tom or Robin. Keep up the good work. Neil
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment. Lol, I had to clear up the carnage the next day, he did it on my machine (an old Herbert 8). I wish I had seen it, think I would have been going home for dry underwear. Cheers, Jon
Hi Geoff, thanks for the comment, hope you're well mate. Best wishes to you all. Don't you go nicking my ideas now and feeding them into the Mothership lol. Cheers, Jon
Hi Gr eg, thanks for the comment. Noted, a couple of similar comments so I will follow up with more info in the next Tips video. Please also see my response to Mark Trombley, this explains a bit more. Cheers, Jon
That was excellent, You have a talent for teaching I have seen Keith Rucker from Vintage Machinery (who I am a big fan of) try to "sneak up" on a diameter taking smaller cuts as he progresses and it never works out I have also seen Stefan Gotteswinter explaining balanced cuts, but you do a better job in my humble opinion Thank you so much PS, I know the younger guys won't know what I'm talking about, but I think you borrowed your opening from Blue Peter !!
Hi Seamus, thanks for the comment and feedback. Yep, usually the only thing you sneak up on is disappointment and the realisation you need to start again. I am pleased you found it useful and interesting. As for Blue Peter, lol, I grew up on that stuff, maybe unconsciously it guides my stupidity lol. Maybe I should go and grab a couple of coat hangers out the wardrobe, whack some flammable tinsel on and then glue some candles to it to warm the shop up lol lol. Cheers, Jon
great info and demo. I will be in the shop tonight until I can reproduce what you've done. question; any thing I should take into consideration using hss?
Hi Billy, thanks for the comment. For balanced cuts, no. Follow the exact same procedure regardless of HSS or Carbide etc. For the whole finish cut size constraints of carbide, clearly this is not so for HSS, therefore you last 4 cuts could be 0.002" each if that was giving you an acceptable surface finish. The important thing is to lock as many of the variables down an just be consistent. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
Well that was really interesting Jon, all these years I've been turning [as an amateur] & yes I used to "rough out like you said then gradually decreasing fine cuts towards the end & sometimes it was ok but often finished a thou or two smaller with me scratching my head wondering why. Graham.
Some very good advice in this one Jon! Still ain't played with my lathe yet, been busy with the laser cutter making christmas ornaments for the peeps! Hope you n yours are safe n well, no more house bits falling off!... TFS, GB :)
Cheers Jon, another useful and informative video. Although at one point early on with the cucumber analogy I thought when you said it would make perfect sense, I was sure you were gonna say it makes perfect sandwiches :-)
Hi Pakrattuk, thanks for the comment. Glad you enjoyed. Lol, Mrs Jon's Workshop had to go without a cucumber sandwich following this sacrificial act! All resolved now, we have a new one in the fridge lol. Cheers, Jon
Hi Dermot, thanks for the comment. Lol, my dad was a fitter/Turner as well, all my emery cloth I use was from him from back in the 1960's lol. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, thanks for the information, should you take this type of cuts on your mill. One thing as a novice is speed I keep think slower is better, but you highlighted the need for the inserts to do work
Hi Jim, thanks for the comment and question. On a mill, this does not translate well unless you have a power X axis that you can consistently repeat the feed rate, and you are not moving your Y axis (ie a slot). If you consistently cut in the same direction in this scenario then the method transfers, if you are moving your Y axis between cuts you have too many variables. Probably not worth worrying on the mill. Also, carbide endmills are all ground (sharp edge of the knife) so you can take the very small depths of cut easily. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
Excellent!! One suggestion is to draw out the apprach or plan of attack first and after roughing the approach for the last 3 cuts and their slight variance to get close to the exact size. What cut depth did you use for 4th, 3rd second last cuts ie. Plus one thing that is also important is the height of the cutting tool and what happens when it slightly of when cutting small diameters.
Good points there for those not in the know Jon . I think mild steel is the worst crap you can machine for one off bits , i tend to cheat if it is not playing the game & use a sharp insert for aluminium .
Hi Max, thanks for the comment. Yep, agreed. EN1A is bottom drawer stuff but useful for demos etc. Bloody expensive as well for what it is. Cheers, Jon
Good video Jon, learned most of this years ago. You did also present some new ideas for me to consider, so this is helpful. I wonder how much the replacement Crankshaft cost the company, lol. John, Australia.
Hi John, thanks for the comment. Yep, it's really not rocket science, the hard bit is remembering to put the time in up front while you still have stock on and resisting the temptation to just blast it off to get to the end game as quickly as possible. Glad you enjoyed. Cheers, Jon
Hi Russell, thanks for the comment. Glad you are using the method, hopefully you have saved yourself some time and frustration as a result. Cheers, Jon
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you enjoyed. The mic is part of the M&W budget range but not sure if they are imported or UK made (guessing import but I have some documents somewhere so will have a look if I remember). Cheers, Jon
As a beginner I thought it to be very informative. There’s only so many books you can read this practical demo was an eye opener. One question if you were reducing a large diameter to a small say 30mm to 10mm using your balanced cuts would at some point I need to increase the speed or feed rate as I got closer to the small diameter to ensure I could hit my target. It may be a silly question but I think the most stupid question is the one that’s never asked. 🤔
Hi Ray, thanks for the comment. You are absolutely right, no daft questions! In short, yes to spindle speed, and no to feed rate. If I was taking this much, I would blast down to 15mm not worrying too much about anything other than material removal, then start assessing surface finish and 'tweaking' speed / feed until you get an acceptable result. Then fix the variables, change nothing, and work your way into 10mm. The difference between 14.5 ish and 10, should make no difference. Hopefully this helps. Cheers, Jon
Hi Rocky, thanks for the comment and feedback. Push off is best explained by Newton's 3rd law (sorry). "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" meaning, the force excerpted by the tool on the part in cut, is equal to the force in the opposite direction excerpted on the tool, tool holder, tool post, compound slide, cross slide and saddle, therefore any play or flex in that entire system will comply under load meaning you don't cut exactly what you dial in. Hope that makes sense. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop One of your commenters seemed suggest locking down the cross slide only on the last cutting pass. But the improved rigidity of that change to the lathe's total elastic deformation curve vs. tool pressure would increase the final cut's depth by decreasing lathe total elastic deformation from the constant tool pressure. Do you agree. Like your other viewers, I enjoyed your explanations. I just don't think that changing a controlling variable like "push off" which is determined by the machine's total elastic deformation curve should be changed on the last cutting pass. That strategy would violate the "all other things being equal" assumption on which your good advise is based.
@@informationsponge5697 Hi, thanks for the comment. Totally agree, the whole concept here is based around consistency of all forces, if you change anything at all (especially on the last cut) the output will be different, 100% guaranteed. Cheers, Jon
Hi Alasdair, thanks for the comment and question. I have done in the past but not in my own shop yet. I will be doing in the future when I get the right grinding wheels for my surface grinder. Cheers, Jon
Hi Michel, thanks for the comment. I don't think it's widely called this, it was what it was called by one of my mentors, and the name stuck in my mind. Glad you are using the method, its a big help isn't it. Cheers, Jon
Hi smallcnclathes, thanks for the. Lol, I have a feeling the cucumber won't be the last vegetable or fruit to aid me with a demo. There seems to be a good appetite for it lol lol. Cheers, Jon
Clausing used to have machines that did compensate for diameter with speed change, even though they were manual machines. I have a VFD on my 3 Hp machine. If I wanted to, I could do the same thing. Just connect the pot to your cross feed. The further you go in, the higher the speed. You could set max and min speeds. I haven’t done it, but I’ve thought about it. There are long linear pots that could be used. That’s simplified, of course. Also, as we should all know, HSS bits break down quickly. After just a few feet, they’re not as sharp as they were. If really needed, carbide inserts can be honed on a diamond “stone”. And carbide is sharper today than they were 20 years ago. Balanced cuts are also important as they are more predictable. That is, the strain on the machine structure is the same for each cut which is at the same depth and speed. So, if you’re 4 thou away from final dia, taking two 2 thou cuts will be better than 2, 1, .5 and hoping that another .5 will get you there.
Hi Mel, thanks for the comment. Agreed with all your points. I may do a future follow-up video on grinding carbide inserts and the benefits / drawbacks etc. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop that would be helpful. A lot of people read that you can’t grind carbide inserts, when we most certainly can. Making carbide brazed tools is that difficult either.
Another great video Jon. I think I know the answer but, will the lighter cuts be the same issue with “spring cuts”? Sorry if this is a dumb question. All the best
The penny has finally dropped. The whole point of the video is that, you won’t need a spring pass🙄. Next time I think I’ve got a good point, I’ll leave it a day or two to save my blushes 😂
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment and question. Push off is the "flex" in the tool, tool holder, tool post, compound slide, cross slide, and saddle as an assembly. Best described by Newton's 3rd law, (sorry, but its probably the best way to explain) "to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" meaning, the pressure you exert on the part when you cut with a 'blunt' tool, is mirrored back into the lathe, and any clearances between mating parts, or flex due to lack of rigidity, results in push off, meaning you don't cut as much as you dialled in. Hope this helps. I will expand in a future video as you are not the only one to ask. Cheers, Jon
Now you've got me wondering if a cucumber mic will need recalibrating to measure sliced aubergine. A video on measuring aubergine slices would be fascinating😂
thank you, that was very informative, A shop tip would be great on types carbide of tips, what they can and can't do and all those letters etc what the f@$k do they mean, I tried to look them up once but gave up there was soooo many. cheers
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful. Noted, I will attempt to remember and do a debugging carbide tips video in the future. Cheers, Jon
It's funny, we wouldn't approach many other things without understanding and planning, but think we can just wing it because turning metal seems such a simple thing to do.
Hi B M, thanks for the comment. Yep, bang on! And what's even worse is when you know about this stuff, and still batter in without the planning (me) lol. Cheers, Jon
Jon as a total amateur I always learn from your videos. Though many are beyond my skill level I am very sure my skill level will improve much faster from videos like yours👍 Just a quick question. Isn’t a digital vernier an oxymoron 😂 just kidding
Hi Gene, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. I am glad you are enjoying the content and learning from it, that is my primary goal. Cheers, Jon
Gud un Jon! More useful than watching you make that engine but it's all part of the learning for some. Just how technical are you going to get ?????? No, don't answer that, I was only joking really.
What ho Grasshopper, All good info but then I expect nothing less.😉 Personally, for home use, I think TC inserts are an example of a fool and his money being soon parted. Having said, that the quality of HSS from our beloved far eastern suppliers can be trully abysmal. I can understand that newbies are often confused by the variety of angle and shapes of tools said to be vital and the fear of all those nasty sparks from a grinder can put people off learning the techniques. The answer I favour is the tangential tool, can be used for perhaps as much as 90% of normal turning and facing on all but the hardest of materials, costs peanuts to use and is piss easy to sharpen. Further more it completely debunks the false notion that you need tools ground to a host of different angles for every variety of materials. The majority of time served chappies quite rightly grew up with the need for insert tooling but the home environment is in a different class where production levels are of a secondary consideration. Hobbyists skills should almost be divorced from industry ones as although the end result may be the same to journey there can be wildly different. Home shop technology has always followed industry rather than followed it's own path with its different budgets for both time and investment. Now where can I find space to store my soapbox till next time.😆 I seem to recall you questioning my surface grinding to 10 microns and now you are TURNING to 5!🤔 ATB c
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment, hope you're well. My, you set the bar high with your expectations of my drivel lol. Totally agree with all that you say, the tangential tool is very useful (and something I have yet to grind up for my own use, although have made and used plenty in the past). I think carbide makes sense for lathes my size and above, but for the smaller hobby/training lathes, I agree that the benefits don't warrant the cost as you can't drive them hard enough to get the benefits. Your soap box is well placed and welcome here, leave it be! Yes, I remember the challenge, solely based on the fact your machine was in your garden lol, if I put mine out in the garden, I think I would struggle to hold 0.1 after a week let alone 0.01. The joys of living in the North (it's grim up north) as someone famously said! Cheers, Jon
Now this is something I didn’t know, very interesting, two things can you grind inserts and could you take the last cut with HS steel, learning machining from YT generally doesn’t teach you this stuff, 👴🏻👍
Hi Terry, thanks for the comment and questions. Yes, you can grind carbide inserts (only on the top face really if you want to index them), using a green grit wheel or CBN. You can also just use carbide for roughing and use HSS for finishing but I would still recommend balanced cuts with the HSS as one pass doesn't allow you to fix your variables, this is also inefficient as you need to set two tools up (sometimes necessary though). As long as you can achieve the geometry and surface finish with carbide then this method gets you the results. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
I’m a beginner starting to learn metalworking at a Makerspace with a well equipped metalshop. These videos are brilliant. It’s teaching techniques and approaches based on huge professional experience. Thank you!
Now a serious note, I heard Joe Pie explain the same principle in short terms, but explanation is really in depth. Txs.
Hi Garratt, thanks for the comment. Much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Just seen Olly's latest, and followed his link here. I think I've figured some of this out empirically, but you've put the meat on the bones with this film (and tips #6). Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. I always leave your channel a little wiser 👍 🇬🇧
Jon, this is a fantastic wealth of information! Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge!!
This explains so much to me that i didn't understand. Despite my best efforts I was having all the issues you mentioned and this explains why, thanks Jon
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment, glad you found it useful. Cheers, Jon
Great demonstration! Some time ago, Stefan Gotteswinter mentioned just in passing that to hit a tight dimension, the final cut needed to be taken with confidence and a good "bite". That stuck with me, but he didn't elaborate in that particular video. Between the tool edge explanation and your anecdote about dialing in tenths on the CNC until you hit the tipping point and the tool bit in deep, you really clarified the issue for me. Thanks!
I have struggled with chasing finished dia and done all the things you explain in the start of the vid. After this I will impliment what you showed in the latter half and hopefully meet finished dia. Nice tutorial.
Hi, thanks for the comment and support, you will not look back once you get the hang of it. Cheers, Jon
Jon this is the second time I have watched this video. I actually put this in use today. I did use a DTI because the marks on my dials are too hard for me to read. My target was .500 O/D + 0 - .001. I was able to hit the .499 using this method. It works quite well. I must confess i made a mental error on the first cut. I meant to take .020 off the diameter on the first of the 3 passes and I dialed in .020 which yielded .040 off the diameter. I caught myself on the first measurement and all was well in the final diameter. Thanks for such great tutoring.
Hi Terry, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you are finding it useful. Keep practicing. Cheers, Jon
Well, if you would like to do more of this type of instructional video, I am sure there are lots of us out here who would be delighted. As a beginner I had no idea why no matter how small a cut I took with my carbide insert tools, not only could I not hit the dimension but I got a steadily worsening surface finish. I was beginning to think I had a problem with my lathe. Really excellent - thank you.
Mitch
Hi Mitch, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful, yep, small cuts and carbide inserts just don't mix (unless they are ground). More on the way in the near future. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon. Watched it twice - very good explanation. Answered a few questions I had not asked myself. The "plowed field" reference is perfect for some results I get with cold rolled. LOL. My lathe is waiting on me to get better and that is clear. Thanks for giving me some things to focus on.
As my Karate Master once said "a thousand more sets and then we can talk." LOL.
All the best
Dan
Hi Dan, thanks for the comment, glad you found it useful, it is a pretty much bullet proof method if you follow it religiously. Cheers, Jon
I found this to be a very clear explanation. I didn't know why I could hit the dimensions when turning aluminium but hardly ever when turning steel and I feel I have learnt something useful here. Thanks for posting this helpful video.
Hi, thanks for the comment, glad to hear you found it useful, more to come in the future. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon you have explained perfectly the problems i have with inconsistent cuts and sizing , i now know how to cure the problem .THANKS SO MUCH .
Hi Michael, thanks for the comment. Glad you found the information useful, give it a go, you won't regret it. Cheers, Jon
Very nicely done. You were clear and concise. I really enjoyed the video. Cheers.
Hi Dudley, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Good video and well explained. It’s a lot easier to get predictable sizes when you understand the variables and have been trained. For guys who haven’t been trained / time served, it must be a mysterious phenomenon to put a cut on of a particular size but actually get a different result. Keep up the good work!
Hi Optical Mechanic, thanks for the comment. Totally agree, hopefully this helps a few out, it's all common sense really but unless you know or have been shown....... Cheers, Jon
Some good tips there, Jon 😊. I learned this the hard way lol. This is a lot more prominent when you run an old, clapped out Atlas, especially with carbide.
Lol, I repair cnc machines, we had a guy work half a day, crashed the horizontal cnc mill ripping the whole tombstone off it's base and just walked out without saying a word. Some of these guys I tell ya 🤣.
Thanks for the vid!
Cheers! 👍😁👍
Hi, thanks for the comment. Totally agree, the older and more worn the machine, the more important this is. Lol I bet that made a nice noise. Cheers, Jon
Great material, and presented very well Jon! It's a technique that absolutely works.
Thankyou Jon...If you have more all bottled up ....then please unload it onto us ...your knowledge is obviously immense...and your delivery is extemely listenable. we have all come away from this far wiser. Respect...
Hi Philip, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you found it useful and interesting. Don't worry, more to come in the near future, just need to restock the fridge first lol. Cheers, Jon
Absolutely agree.
Well presented as well.
I have advocated this approach for decades.
I would aim, when possible, for 3 balanced finishing cuts of a depth (ie radius) of at least the radius of the insert.
On one offs I would test and settle my finish cut settings, like you have here.
Then rough down all round leaving that finish material using a roughing tool.
Finally, finish machining with confidence, on size and suitable surface.
Still easier these days with DRO's but very satisfying and not nerve racking.
Hi Carl, thanks for the comment. You are bang on, it's clear from your knowledge I have been preaching to the converted lol. Cheers, Jon
Jon, the message hasn't been spread far enough yet.
I see other YTers scraping away or sanding to size as 'examples' of good technique.
What can I say?
I've had kind but critical comments deleted.
YT University deserves best practice tutorials.
Just my opinion.
Anyway, good on you.
I really enjoyed that Jon, ive just spent the evening practising. Thanks so much for taking the time to share.
Hi Matt, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful. Cheers, Jon
Just to add, I really enjoyed this and I'm certainly going to spend a little time dialing things in tomorrow 😀
Hi Ralfy, thanks for the comment. Give it a go mate, you will find it a useful tool in the armoury. Cheers, Jon
You've got a knack for this Jon, explaining and demonstrating helping us novices to understand why things happen. Enjoyed the video. Tony
Hi Tony, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you found it useful and interesting mate. More on the way in the near future. Cheers, Jon
Great information for us novices, thank you, more such videos would be appreciated!
Hi Richard, thanks for the comment and support. Glad you found it useful. More on the way in the future for sure. Cheers, Jon
Hello Jon,
A very good video... I am a big fan of balance cuts and do it all the time on my Myford... Like everything the more you do it the more you become comfortable with the process. Thanks for sharing.
Take care.
Paul,,
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment. Glad you are using the method, it certainly helps. Well worth the sacrifice of a perfectly good cucumber lol. Cheers, Jon
Gday Jon, excellent excellent video, lots of very useful information to take away and put into practice, I’d really appreciate more videos like this, I could just imagine ol’mate trying to keep up with the cross slide, great job mate, Cheers
Hi Matty, thanks for the comment. Glad you got something out of it mate, more to come. I may need to sacrifice vegetables more often lol. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon
Great instructional Video, many hobbyists won't know this, so very informative. When i was at work, they sent me on a weeks seminar, thirty to forty years ago back in the early eighties at Sandvik hq in the West Midlands to learn on this very subject. It is a very interesting involved subject on the numerous variations of sintered carbide inserts and their characteristics that were available back then, its probably even more involved as time has passed since then, mind you i have forgot much of it by now, like most skills and jobs, you need to be working at it all the time to retain all the knowledge, but it brought back memories. Many hobbyist will learn a great deal from this, i wonder how many hobby machinist haven't fathomed out why they can't take thou' cuts with sintered carbide inserts, thinking they are blunt, then cocking up the job on the fourth or fifth attempt when it decides to cut the whole lot off in one!!
I better stop here, but you've wetted my appetite on the subject.
see you next time
take care
Kev
Hi Kev, thanks for the comment and supporting thoughts. Yep, I guess you just take it for granted after a while and assume everybody else knows etc. It is only with the advent (topical) of UA-cam, you can see opportunities to help pass on the knowledge. Hopefully this may save a part or two to warrant the sacrifice of a cucumber lol. Cheers, Jon
Very informative Jon, especially the bit about carbide. When I first saw the cucumber, I thought I'd clicked on the wrong kind of video....
Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire.
Hi Dean, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you found it interesting and informative. Lol, I did wonder when I uploaded if I needed to be doing anything ref YT categorisation lol. Cheers, Jon
Great video mate !
A lot of the things you explained like push off and keeping the tool load equal across the machining process are magnified greatly the smaller the machine is as they flex more .
Your story reminds me of a guy we had at tech college- billy , he blew up 3 welders in a month and one night I came in to find our teacher laughing hysterically - asked him why and he said he was on his way into work and this guy walked out onto the road in front of him and it was billy - walking around with his oxy goggles on with the shade lense down and this was in the dark 🤣
We got some good laughs from him .
Hi Ian, thanks for the comment. You are right, similarly with older baggy machines etc. Lol, he sounded a hoot. Cheers, Jon
Very interesting way of looking at things, I was always told to split the total to come off in even cuts down to the last one and leave a similar cut for the last one to size rather than a ultra small polishing cut but not told exactly why. Your method explains in a lot more detail why, I will do a bit of experimenting to see if I can carry a good finishing cut down to the line, rather than a good finish all the way till the last fine cut with a terrible finish then emery to try to save looks.
Hi Derek, thanks for the comment. Once you master this, you will never go back. Keep an eye out tomorrow, this week's video gives more detail on the physics behind it all. Cheers, Jon
Interesting stuff Jon. I'm sure I'm not alone and would love more of this type video. Sharing your knowledge would be very interesting. Cheers Kevin
Hi Kevin, thanks for the comment. Yes, you aren't alone, lol, maybe I need to sacrifice a vegetable more often lol. More on the way in the near future. Cheers, Jon
I just subscribed to your channel and I am really starting to Love it. Thank you so much, very informative video.Please do more videos like this, it’s the type that I find fascinating, Thanks
Hi Rodney, thanks for the comment and welcome to the channel. I hope you find the content interesting. Cheers, Jon
Fantastic explanation with demonstration. Thank you. This should be a must watch for every hobby machinist. All the best to you 👍👍😎👍👍
Hi Joel, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Excellent video Jon, really enjoyed the explanation about all the different variables. You have a very natural way of explaining things.
Hi Carl, thanks for the comment and feedback. Lol, it just sounds like babbling to me but I guess I do try to imagine that I am teaching 1st year apprentices to hopefully not use any jargon and keep it understandable by any new starters. Always hard pitching at the right level as there is such a range of experience out there......... the world is a big classroom lol.
@@jonsworkshop No problem. You are definitely not babbling. It is true what you say regarding knowing where to pitch your delivery. I am currently editing my first ever "proper" youtube film (proper for me at least) about fault finding on DRO systems, and I have had the same thoughts.
Hopefully I won't go over anyone's head or teach anyone to suck eggs. For what it is worth, I think you are spot on with your delivery.
Absolutely fascinating, much of this I was aware of but had never been really quantified by anyone. Many thanks for doing this, I have subscribed 😉👍
Hi James, thanks for the comment and sub, I must sacrifice vegetables more often lol. Mrs Jon's Workshop had to go without a cucumber sandwich because of this lol. Glad you found it useful clarification, thanks for the support. Cheers, Jon
Really nice explanation, Jon.
Hi Michel, thanks for the comment, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
New subscriber and newbie hobby machinist. Brilliant information. Thanks so much.
Hi David, thanks for the comment. Welcome to the channel, I hope you find the content interesting and informative. Cheers, Jon
Let's just say I've been binging :)@@jonsworkshop
Definitely good info John. Explains many of the issues I’ve had. Look forward to more.
Hi Anthony, thanks for the comment, glad you found it useful, more similar on the way soon. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon Enjoy you videos very much. You touched on a topic which probably frustrates many people. I have found that where the backlash is positioned is important. I machine 4140 steel with a DRO and I find that the tool gets dragged 'into' the work. The DRO confirms this. Therefore it will finish undersize. By feeding into the job the backlast is on the wrong side. Apart from getting rid of all backlash I find that if I move the cross slide past the desired position then back the tool away from the job until the desired dimenion is reached. This way the the worst that can happen is a oversided job. Using this method I take a cut, measure the job and then dial the diameter into the DRO (**Important - all while not moving the cross slide). Do this well in advance of the final cut to get confidence in the repeatability of the process. I agree enirely with what you said about cut depths with respect to repeatability and surface finish. I get a poor finish on 4140 with very light cuts and low surface speed. To get an idea of surface finish have a look at the squared off end. It will have different finishes. This shows visually how surface finish is affected by surface speed.
(You said that you are using xNxx inserts. N have zero clearance. Why not a xCxx (7 degree) or xDxx (15 degree) insert.)
Cheers John
Hi John, thanks for the comment and sorry for the delay responding. I don't disagree with your method. xNxx do have clearance, it's built into the holder. I mainly use CNMG as I was fortunate to inherit a lot of them (good quality ones) many years ago so they cost me nothing. I do switch to CCMT and VBMT occasionally when material and required surface finish dictate. CNMG is just a work horse which is why I like them, you do need a half decent lathe though, a small hobby lathe just won't have the rigidity or grunt to get the best out of them. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop Hi Jon Thank you for the reply. Since then I have bought a insert tool holder with angled holder to create front clearance. So I can use the N inserts. My lathe is not a hobby lathe it is a 410 x 1000 workshop quality machine. Its power is a bit scary at times. I make a mistake once and took about a 6mm deep cut on power feed. It didn't blink an eyelid. I hit the emergency stop with lighning speed. Cheers.
Thanks for the video Jon.Lots of good information on this one. Keep safe and stay well.
Hi Colin, thanks for the comment and feedback, glad you found it useful. Cheers, Jon
Interesting video Jon, thanks for sharing.
Hi Kevin, thanks for the comment and feedback. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, great video mate, very interesting indeed. You can't say no cucumbers were harmed in the making of this video 😀
Hi Philip, thanks for the comment. Lol, definitely not. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon.
Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to correspond, it’s very much appreciated.
It’s nice to make a connection with a fellow journeyman of the trades, and look forward to watching your other works.
I’ll be recommending a subscription to your channel to other local colleagues and contacts.
Again all the best in the festive season and a very Merry Christmas.
Very best regards.
Ron Rogers.
Thanks Ron, likewise. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon, I've just made a sleeve for a shaft and got both the id and od right for a change!
Hi Ian, thanks for the comment. Glad to hear you found it useful and glad you have had a go and seen the benefits. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, It's interesting watching carbide v's HSS cut under a microscope. Carbide needs a greater depth of cut as it works like peeling an orange with your thumb. HSS cuts like a knife and having a shave. HSS allows fine incremental cuts but carbide doesn't (unless you grind the insert to a fine edge). Interesting subject. Cheers Rob.
Hi Rob, thanks for the comment. Bang on mate, I have seen so many people struggling with this which prompted me to make the video. Hopefully it will help a few new starters out a bit. It's an interesting topic for sure. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, very informative and very helpful video. This is something I have been struggling with!Hopefully with this new information I will find it much easier. I need to practice and become more confident! Thank you good Sir.
Hi Tony, thanks for the comment, glad you found it useful, practice practice and more practice! Get as many variables locked down as possible rinse and repeat. Cheers, Jon
What a great video. It helped me alot! A top tip, indeed!
Hi Jon.
Excellent presentation and demo. It’s a great technique I favour myself.
For those out there just learning, you have given them an excellent foundational start not only in turning to spec but a greater knowledge and understanding of cutting edge geometry and it’s impacts on tool performance.
Five stars Jon.
Hope this finds you and yours well in this holiday season and a very Merry Christmas.
Cheers from Salt Spring Island, Canada.
Ron.
Hi Ron, thanks for the comment. It certainly is a good technique. Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Best wishes from a wet Scotland. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon, I have always had problems getting accurate sizes with Inserts. I usually finish with a honed HSS tool. Thanks for explaining why. Regards from Australia.
Hi Dave, thanks for the comment. Glad you found the information useful, I think a future episode digging in deeper on carbide and the grinding of inserts will compliment this. Cheers, Jon
Very well explained thanks Jon 👍
Hi Gary, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Well explained Jon that guy working on the crankshaft I’d pay to see a video of that lol😂😂😂😂😂
Hi Steve, thanks for the comment. Lol, yep, me too, I did see him strutting around on day 1 being the big man, don't you just love people like that, so entertaining lol. Cheers, Jon
Super video, more please! On really tiny parts, I use ground, honed and polished uncoated carbide inserts with a 0.2 or 0.4 mm radius, so I can take finer cuts than with normal inserts, but I still have to bury the nose to get a good chip and finish exactly as you explain, with all the same variables to consider. I always do 3 or 4 balanced cuts when I'm finishing parts to very tight tolerances, but usually 0.3 or 0.2 mm off the diameter. Getting 50 workpieces to be 3.98 mm +0.0 -0.01 on my old Colchester (with DRO) is no great stress with balanced cuts.
With those smaller steps I use the compound at a shallow angle (about 5.7 degrees) to give me a bit more control over the final size after locking the cross-slide so 0.1 mm on the compound is 0.01 mm (0.02 mm of the diameter).
Hi Machining and Microwaves, thanks for the comment. Looks like I am preaching to the converted here lol. I plan to do some insert grinding in the future, have done it in industry but not at home yet, need to get kitted out with the right wheels for my surface grinder first. Your compound slide trick is also a good tip. More on the way Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop I haven't tried grinding carbide inserts, but I've done plenty of form tools and D-bits in carbide. It will be interesting to see how it goes. One of the other UA-camrs did some insert grinding, can't recall who, but I'd guess Stefan, Tom or Robin.
Keep up the good work. Neil
G’day Jon. Well that explains a lot of my turning problems, thanks for that.
Cheers
Peter
Hi Peter, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful, well worth the effort. Cheers, Jon
That story at the end was priceless 🤣
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment. Lol, I had to clear up the carnage the next day, he did it on my machine (an old Herbert 8). I wish I had seen it, think I would have been going home for dry underwear. Cheers, Jon
Mmm kinda knew the problem but never give much thought on how to fix it!.. great vid, learned a lot
Hi Christian, thanks for the comment, glad you found it useful. Cheers, Jon
Very informative video, extremely useful for a beginner like me. More of the same would be very much appreciated please.
Hi Geoff, thanks for the comment. Glad to hear you found it useful. There will definitely be more tips videos in the future. Cheers, Jon
Very good video and explanation. Thanks
Hi Mapstar damo, thanks for the comment, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Just checking in mate.Hope you're keeping well .Very interesting video !
Hi Geoff, thanks for the comment, hope you're well mate. Best wishes to you all. Don't you go nicking my ideas now and feeding them into the Mothership lol. Cheers, Jon
Thanks for this video Jon. This information will help a lot!
Hi Black Knight Custom, thanks for the comment and feedback, glad you enjoyed. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon for clear explanation on balanced depth of cuts.
Please go over the "Push Back", I did not get that, Thanks again.
Hi Gr eg, thanks for the comment. Noted, a couple of similar comments so I will follow up with more info in the next Tips video. Please also see my response to Mark Trombley, this explains a bit more. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, thanks for a great video, which I am sure there will be many more. I will give that a try.. Regards.
Steve.
Hi Steve, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon, really well explained buddy, I learnt something today mate, makes perfect sense 👍
Hi Ralfy, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful mate, thanks for the support. Cheers, Jon
That was excellent,
You have a talent for teaching
I have seen Keith Rucker from Vintage Machinery (who I am a big fan of) try to "sneak up" on a diameter taking smaller cuts as he progresses and it never works out
I have also seen Stefan Gotteswinter explaining balanced cuts, but you do a better job in my humble opinion
Thank you so much
PS, I know the younger guys won't know what I'm talking about, but I think you borrowed your opening from Blue Peter !!
I sometime yell at the screen watching Keith do that!
Hi Seamus, thanks for the comment and feedback. Yep, usually the only thing you sneak up on is disappointment and the realisation you need to start again. I am pleased you found it useful and interesting. As for Blue Peter, lol, I grew up on that stuff, maybe unconsciously it guides my stupidity lol. Maybe I should go and grab a couple of coat hangers out the wardrobe, whack some flammable tinsel on and then glue some candles to it to warm the shop up lol lol. Cheers, Jon
great info and demo. I will be in the shop tonight until I can reproduce what you've done. question; any thing I should take into consideration using hss?
Hi Billy, thanks for the comment. For balanced cuts, no. Follow the exact same procedure regardless of HSS or Carbide etc. For the whole finish cut size constraints of carbide, clearly this is not so for HSS, therefore you last 4 cuts could be 0.002" each if that was giving you an acceptable surface finish. The important thing is to lock as many of the variables down an just be consistent. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
very good video Jon
very informative! thank you! a topic with which I have to devote myself a little more! have a nice weekend Jon! and a nice 3rd Advent!
Hi Dreamsteam, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful and interesting. Happy 3rd Advent to you too. Cheers, Jon
Great info Jon, very interesting subject,
Hi Kentucky Trapper, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Well that was really interesting Jon, all these years I've been turning [as an amateur] & yes I used to "rough out like you said then gradually decreasing fine cuts towards the end & sometimes it was ok but often finished a thou or two smaller with me scratching my head wondering why.
Graham.
Hi Graham, thanks for the comment. Lol, we've all done it! Some of us (guess who) even when we know better. Cheers, Jon
Really clear and useful for a rank amateur like myself!
Hi Jim, thanks for the comment, glad to hear you found it useful. Cheers, Jon
Some very good advice in this one Jon! Still ain't played with my lathe yet, been busy with the laser cutter making christmas ornaments for the peeps! Hope you n yours are safe n well, no more house bits falling off!... TFS, GB :)
Hi Graeme, thanks for the comment. Laser cutter eh? C02, LED or Fibre (please say fibre)! Lol. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop Unfortunately Co2 Jon, It does its job well enough though! GB :)
Cheers Jon, another useful and informative video. Although at one point early on with the cucumber analogy I thought when you said it would make perfect sense, I was sure you were gonna say it makes perfect sandwiches :-)
Hi Pakrattuk, thanks for the comment. Glad you enjoyed. Lol, Mrs Jon's Workshop had to go without a cucumber sandwich following this sacrificial act! All resolved now, we have a new one in the fridge lol. Cheers, Jon
Really useful Jon, thank you.
Hi Stephen, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
Very interesting. I was a fitter turner for years and I never did this. Yes I used emery cloth too! 🤣🤣
Hi Dermot, thanks for the comment. Lol, my dad was a fitter/Turner as well, all my emery cloth I use was from him from back in the 1960's lol. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, thanks for the information, should you take this type of cuts on your mill. One thing as a novice is speed I keep think slower is better, but you highlighted the need for the inserts to do work
Hi Jim, thanks for the comment and question. On a mill, this does not translate well unless you have a power X axis that you can consistently repeat the feed rate, and you are not moving your Y axis (ie a slot). If you consistently cut in the same direction in this scenario then the method transfers, if you are moving your Y axis between cuts you have too many variables. Probably not worth worrying on the mill. Also, carbide endmills are all ground (sharp edge of the knife) so you can take the very small depths of cut easily. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
Excellent!! One suggestion is to draw out the apprach or plan of attack first and after roughing the approach for the last 3 cuts and their slight variance to get close to the exact size. What cut depth did you use for 4th, 3rd second last cuts ie. Plus one thing that is also important is the height of the cutting tool and what happens when it slightly of when cutting small diameters.
Good points there for those not in the know Jon . I think mild steel is the worst crap you can machine for one off bits , i tend to cheat if it is not playing the game & use a sharp insert for aluminium .
Hi Max, thanks for the comment. Yep, agreed. EN1A is bottom drawer stuff but useful for demos etc. Bloody expensive as well for what it is. Cheers, Jon
Good video Jon, learned most of this years ago. You did also present some new ideas for me to consider, so this is helpful.
I wonder how much the replacement Crankshaft cost the company, lol.
John, Australia.
Hi John, thanks for the comment. Yep, it's really not rocket science, the hard bit is remembering to put the time in up front while you still have stock on and resisting the temptation to just blast it off to get to the end game as quickly as possible. Glad you enjoyed. Cheers, Jon
Great workshop tip. I have been using the balanced cut method since you first spoke of it. Works great even on my little lathe 🙂 thanks Jon 👍
Hi Russell, thanks for the comment. Glad you are using the method, hopefully you have saved yourself some time and frustration as a result. Cheers, Jon
Very interesting, thanks for the tips !
Hi Jon I am new to your channel thank you for this great advise cheers.
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment and welcome to the channel. I hope you find the content interesting. Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon. Nice to listen to someone who actually knows his stuff.
Your blue M&W mic, are they badged imports or made in Sheffield?
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment and feedback. Glad you enjoyed. The mic is part of the M&W budget range but not sure if they are imported or UK made (guessing import but I have some documents somewhere so will have a look if I remember). Cheers, Jon
As a beginner I thought it to be very informative. There’s only so many books you can read this practical demo was an eye opener. One question if you were reducing a large diameter to a small say 30mm to 10mm using your balanced cuts would at some point I need to increase the speed or feed rate as I got closer to the small diameter to ensure I could hit my target. It may be a silly question but I think the most stupid question is the one that’s never asked. 🤔
Hi Ray, thanks for the comment. You are absolutely right, no daft questions! In short, yes to spindle speed, and no to feed rate. If I was taking this much, I would blast down to 15mm not worrying too much about anything other than material removal, then start assessing surface finish and 'tweaking' speed / feed until you get an acceptable result. Then fix the variables, change nothing, and work your way into 10mm. The difference between 14.5 ish and 10, should make no difference. Hopefully this helps. Cheers, Jon
Very informative video thank you for sharing.
Hi Ian, thanks for the comment and support, much appreciated. Cheers, Jon
One of the most important videos I've watched so far. But can you precisely define push off? That's a term I'm not familiar with.
Hi Rocky, thanks for the comment and feedback. Push off is best explained by Newton's 3rd law (sorry). "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" meaning, the force excerpted by the tool on the part in cut, is equal to the force in the opposite direction excerpted on the tool, tool holder, tool post, compound slide, cross slide and saddle, therefore any play or flex in that entire system will comply under load meaning you don't cut exactly what you dial in. Hope that makes sense. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop One of your commenters seemed suggest locking down the cross slide only on the last cutting pass. But the improved rigidity of that change to the lathe's total elastic deformation curve vs. tool pressure would increase the final cut's depth by decreasing lathe total elastic deformation from the constant tool pressure. Do you agree. Like your other viewers, I enjoyed your explanations. I just don't think that changing a controlling variable like "push off" which is determined by the machine's total elastic deformation curve should be changed on the last cutting pass. That strategy would violate the "all other things being equal" assumption on which your good advise is based.
@@informationsponge5697 Hi, thanks for the comment. Totally agree, the whole concept here is based around consistency of all forces, if you change anything at all (especially on the last cut) the output will be different, 100% guaranteed. Cheers, Jon
Thanks for the tips Jon. Note to self, don’t eat that cucumber 🥒 now lol 😂
Hi Aaron, thanks for the comment. Lol, nope, not unless welding spatter is classed as an acceptable condiment lol. Cheers, Jon
Hi Jon, do you regrind any of your carbide inserts to give a sharp edge? 👍🏴
Hi Alasdair, thanks for the comment and question. I have done in the past but not in my own shop yet. I will be doing in the future when I get the right grinding wheels for my surface grinder. Cheers, Jon
I use this technique all the time. It works really well. I just didn't know it's called "balanced cuts"
Hi Michel, thanks for the comment. I don't think it's widely called this, it was what it was called by one of my mentors, and the name stuck in my mind. Glad you are using the method, its a big help isn't it. Cheers, Jon
Where else does one go to hear "We'll mic that up in a bit" in reference to a slice of cucumber!
Hi smallcnclathes, thanks for the. Lol, I have a feeling the cucumber won't be the last vegetable or fruit to aid me with a demo. There seems to be a good appetite for it lol lol. Cheers, Jon
Clausing used to have machines that did compensate for diameter with speed change, even though they were manual machines. I have a VFD on my 3 Hp machine. If I wanted to, I could do the same thing. Just connect the pot to your cross feed. The further you go in, the higher the speed. You could set max and min speeds. I haven’t done it, but I’ve thought about it. There are long linear pots that could be used. That’s simplified, of course.
Also, as we should all know, HSS bits break down quickly. After just a few feet, they’re not as sharp as they were. If really needed, carbide inserts can be honed on a diamond “stone”. And carbide is sharper today than they were 20 years ago.
Balanced cuts are also important as they are more predictable. That is, the strain on the machine structure is the same for each cut which is at the same depth and speed. So, if you’re 4 thou away from final dia, taking two 2 thou cuts will be better than 2, 1, .5 and hoping that another .5 will get you there.
Hi Mel, thanks for the comment. Agreed with all your points. I may do a future follow-up video on grinding carbide inserts and the benefits / drawbacks etc. Cheers, Jon
@@jonsworkshop that would be helpful. A lot of people read that you can’t grind carbide inserts, when we most certainly can. Making carbide brazed tools is that difficult either.
Another great video Jon. I think I know the answer but, will the lighter cuts be the same issue with “spring cuts”? Sorry if this is a dumb question. All the best
The penny has finally dropped. The whole point of the video is that, you won’t need a spring pass🙄. Next time I think I’ve got a good point, I’ll leave it a day or two to save my blushes 😂
Hi Ricky, thanks for the comments. Lol, no problem, just glad you got it, hopefully useful to you, it's well worth the effort. Cheers, Jon
What is push off? I didn't understand that one.
Hi Mark, thanks for the comment and question. Push off is the "flex" in the tool, tool holder, tool post, compound slide, cross slide, and saddle as an assembly. Best described by Newton's 3rd law, (sorry, but its probably the best way to explain) "to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" meaning, the pressure you exert on the part when you cut with a 'blunt' tool, is mirrored back into the lathe, and any clearances between mating parts, or flex due to lack of rigidity, results in push off, meaning you don't cut as much as you dialled in. Hope this helps. I will expand in a future video as you are not the only one to ask. Cheers, Jon
Now you've got me wondering if a cucumber mic will need recalibrating to measure sliced aubergine. A video on measuring aubergine slices would be fascinating😂
Hi Howard, thanks for the comment. Lol, John Mills is your man for that, even spam lol. Cheers, Jon
thank you, that was very informative, A shop tip would be great on types carbide of tips, what they can and can't do and all those letters etc what the f@$k do they mean, I tried to look them up once but gave up there was soooo many.
cheers
Hi Paul, thanks for the comment. Glad you found it useful. Noted, I will attempt to remember and do a debugging carbide tips video in the future. Cheers, Jon
Thanks.
It's funny, we wouldn't approach many other things without understanding and planning, but think we can just wing it because turning metal seems such a simple thing to do.
Hi B M, thanks for the comment. Yep, bang on! And what's even worse is when you know about this stuff, and still batter in without the planning (me) lol. Cheers, Jon
Jon as a total amateur I always learn from your videos. Though many are beyond my skill level I am very sure my skill level will improve much faster from videos like yours👍
Just a quick question. Isn’t a digital vernier an oxymoron 😂 just kidding
Hi Gene, thanks for the comment and feedback, much appreciated. I am glad you are enjoying the content and learning from it, that is my primary goal. Cheers, Jon
Brilliant I had just about given up it was happening to me all the time I'm off into my den now, I my be sometime
Hi Martin, thanks for the comment. Lol, I hope you get some value and see some improvement. Predictability is what it's all about. Cheers, Jon
Abom79 is definitely a long time user and proponent of this technique
Thanks Paul
Gud un Jon! More useful than watching you make that engine but it's all part of the learning for some. Just how technical are you going to get ?????? No, don't answer that, I was only joking really.
Hi Del, thanks for the comment and support. Glad you found it useful. How technical eh,,,,,,, I might sacrifice an apple next time lol. Cheers, Jon
What ho Grasshopper,
All good info but then I expect nothing less.😉
Personally, for home use, I think TC inserts are an example of a fool and his money being soon parted. Having said, that the quality of HSS from our beloved far eastern suppliers can be trully abysmal. I can understand that newbies are often confused by the variety of angle and shapes of tools said to be vital and the fear of all those nasty sparks from a grinder can put people off learning the techniques. The answer I favour is the tangential tool, can be used for perhaps as much as 90% of normal turning and facing on all but the hardest of materials, costs peanuts to use and is piss easy to sharpen. Further more it completely debunks the false notion that you need tools ground to a host of different angles for every variety of materials. The majority of time served chappies quite rightly grew up with the need for insert tooling but the home environment is in a different class where production levels are of a secondary consideration. Hobbyists skills should almost be divorced from industry ones as although the end result may be the same to journey there can be wildly different. Home shop technology has always followed industry rather than followed it's own path with its different budgets for both time and investment. Now where can I find space to store my soapbox till next time.😆
I seem to recall you questioning my surface grinding to 10 microns and now you are TURNING to 5!🤔
ATB
c
Hi Chris, thanks for the comment, hope you're well. My, you set the bar high with your expectations of my drivel lol. Totally agree with all that you say, the tangential tool is very useful (and something I have yet to grind up for my own use, although have made and used plenty in the past). I think carbide makes sense for lathes my size and above, but for the smaller hobby/training lathes, I agree that the benefits don't warrant the cost as you can't drive them hard enough to get the benefits. Your soap box is well placed and welcome here, leave it be! Yes, I remember the challenge, solely based on the fact your machine was in your garden lol, if I put mine out in the garden, I think I would struggle to hold 0.1 after a week let alone 0.01. The joys of living in the North (it's grim up north) as someone famously said! Cheers, Jon
Now this is something I didn’t know, very interesting, two things can you grind inserts and could you take the last cut with HS steel, learning machining from YT generally doesn’t teach you this stuff, 👴🏻👍
Hi Terry, thanks for the comment and questions. Yes, you can grind carbide inserts (only on the top face really if you want to index them), using a green grit wheel or CBN. You can also just use carbide for roughing and use HSS for finishing but I would still recommend balanced cuts with the HSS as one pass doesn't allow you to fix your variables, this is also inefficient as you need to set two tools up (sometimes necessary though). As long as you can achieve the geometry and surface finish with carbide then this method gets you the results. Hope this helps. Cheers, Jon
I'm not convinced 'balanced cuts' is the right terminology for this technique !
Hi pmailkeey, thanks for the comment. What do you suggest instead? Cheers, Jon