Hard to know if you have employed an amateur until it's done. Cost or reputation is not an indicator. I've read a thousand reviews of ' great tidy work ' when there is no way that the owner could've checked any of the work. And usually reviews are posted days after the job is done.. do there's no time for any errors to appear .
I’ve only just finished watching this and being a roofer myself I’m sorry to say you would be better off ripping it off and doing it properly. If your having problems now, trying to fix some of the problems is basically putting lipstick on a pig. Take it off do it properly and you won’t have to worry about problems in the future.
This video made me genuinely sad, but not for Ross&Vicky, rather for our trade. The reason why they are in this mess is not that they cannot afford a better builder or a high quality project. They drive a Tesla (to see at the begin of the video), they can afford such a two storey extension etc. etc. I suspect that the real reason is, and this is a huge problem nowadays, that they simply don't value the job of a (roof) builder. The fact that you have to pay for a good, high quality job hasn't dawned on them. People have stopped valuing blue collar jobs, they stopped appreciating the experience, skills developed over years, knowledge. They watch a couple of UA-cam videos and think "oh that's so simple, I can do it too, if not, I won't pay much for this job". It is a mess - I am almost tempted to say they deserve this. As for the job itself, honestly, tear it down, do it again, properly. It would save you a lot more in the long run.
Here is a classic case of ‘we didn’t want to pay the money and opted for the cheapest’. I guarantee you they sourced the materials themselves and then found the cheapest roofer on check a trade. Funny how this sort of work only appears when “we done most the work ourselves”, it’s quite clear they didn’t want to spend the money and now complaining the works shite 🤷♂️😂
Agree with that ,you get exactly what you pay for they should bite the bullet and get a proper professional rather than trying to fix it themselves when they don't know what there doing
Absolutely. They are /were on a budget (as we all are) trying to save money doing things themselves, probably managing and went for the cheapest option on the labour and thinking they can spec everything themselves. I've no sympathy for people like this who bring it upon themselves by employing idiots. I despair for the younger guys trying to do a good job for people who want to pay peanuts. A word to the wise. If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur ;)
Poor advice given in my opinion the roof needs to come off and correct tiles for the low pitch situation fitted. The coursing of the tiles differs on both pitches of the roof. The correct water proofing and flashing detail around the roof lights also needs to be introduced. Not good advice given in my opinion.
Hard to know who is a genuine honest builder , a genuine but over priced builder, a genuine but lower priced builder, or a cowboy builder. A cowboy could be dearer than a good lower priced genuine builder.. so 'getting what you pay for' isn't a good benchmark.. Also if you own a two or three story house there is no way to inspect work yourself ...
Not everyone who isn't a roofer bad. Renewed my whole flat roof including upstand and lantern with a mate (neither of us roofers) and got a roofer to felt it all up. Almost 2 years and not leaking (touch wood).
Looks like they've built the kerb too wide for your rooflights, they're not overhanging enough. And that lead is atrocious. Then they've used insulated plasterboard inside, so the overall thickness is so wide that it exceeds the black margin of the glass. Those rooflights can be absolutely fine if installed correctly - mine is perfect, but my single ply membrane dresses up and over the kerb, they have a generous overhang, and the water all drains away on the flat roof. That particular manufacturer doesn't recommend them for pitched roofs, whereas some don't care... but they're not guaranteeing the roof are they Sadly for this family there are just so many defects with this extension that can clearly be seen, that we can safely say there will be countless things wrong that can't be seen, some that could take longer than 8 months to manifest - woes won't end with those rooflights
I’m sorry but that is horrendous workmanship, Just a few things spring to mind: • Roof battens/tiles incorrectly gauged leading to a terrible short course. • Roof tile bonds not central. • Dry verge caps terrible installed. • Need to ensure lead soakers are installed where it meets the wall not just lead cover flashing. • The flashing needs redoing around the roof windows with soakers installed. • Ensure at least 100mm headlap on the tiles due to low pitch. • Ensure 150mm lap on the membrane due to low pitch. • Probably no eaves ventilation. If they planned to live in the house long term i would personally start fresh on the roof, Remove all the tiles, batten, membrane and roof lights. Install the new low pitch Velux roof windows which has their our flashing kit instead of that terrible lead around the windows, New low pitch klober membrane, New marley mendip 12.5 degree roof tiles that are designed for these lower pitches and new lead step flashing against the wall with soakers.
I don’t know where to start Roger, I’m a general builder not a roofer but do most of my own roofs, I’ve seen some terrible work but that is right up there. The gauge of the tiles is terrible, doesn’t even match the other side, I’m guessing they weren’t roofers or experienced guys, I can’t believe any half decent trade would leave it like that. I’ve lost count the amount of jobs I’ve seen like this where customers have tried to save money by project managing the job themselves and trying to save money, what you get is each trade coming in and frankly not giving a f**k. It’s why I prefer to be in charge, that way, the buck stops with me. It’s pretty shitty of the window glass supplier not to supply a flashing kit too in my opinion. Whole roof needs stripping off and redoing tbh, I wouldn’t trust any of it.
Apart from the big problems with the roof lights, the gauge of the tiles is way out! It looks like they’ve started at the facia, worked their way up and hoped for the best at the ridge!!
@@davidchi1277 Hi My experience of roof work, I have always started at the bottom laying the soaker on top of the slate or concrete tile as you would, Prep work bending the lead over a plank to form the L shape, all depending on the situation, carry on placing the soakers on top of each tile, etc, reverse the L shape to go over the soaker. guaranteed to work. regards welshman 2081
I noticed that straight away i mainly do slates when I do roofs. Ive only tiled a few roofs and I know how to gauge it out so you don’t end up with a daft cut or what they done lol
A proper lead worker could create the correct traditional flashing to code that would solve the problem without a doubt but unfortunately the glass needs to be removed to flash it correctly as detailed otherwise is is just a matter of time before it fails again, unlikely to be a DIY enthusiast job though, you need to employ someone with the right skills and knowledge, it will cost what it costs but you will only need to pay once to have the issue rectified.
I’m a roofer and this is why I’m coming out of it. There to many of these cowboys out there now taking the work of the genuine trades men. Seems the roofing trade is the worse for it.
Well said Jonathan, our experience was this, we had to try & match or at least be reasonably close to some ridiculous quotes, not always but it wasn’t uncommon. And as you rightly state the building business in general & the roofing in particular seemed to attract a host of cowboys. We, in the past have done countless roofing jobs where the workmanship was beyond belief garbage & I’m talking 99% of the time. As I said in an earlier reply, “pay peanuts, get monkeys” I’m glad we moved our operation to Stateside, it’s a bloody nightmare working in the UK.
They had a ridge vent tiles so I would check if there is a 50mm gap and ventilation at the eves for a through passage of air. Shame it’s getting hard to find decent roofers now.
Absolutely correct Jonathan, I actually fitted my own Velux window after seeing my roofer open the box and throwing away the felt shirt and telling me he never using it. Anyone looking for tradesperson should use Which Trusted Traders I have been a member of this scheme for many years and they do verify customer reviews before posting them. All the tradespersons I have used from Which have been awesome, those recommend by others not so good.
I advise through Trustatrader but even that’s gone quiet this year prob few to prices of everything going up which means people are more likely to fall for the cowboy prices.
I’ve fitted them at 15° before but you do get more silt build up and they require regular maintenance, I had one on my old kitchen extension, never leaked via the flashing but from the window itself when the draining holes got plugged with crap.
After 40 odd years in the building trade i'm glad that in a few years i can walk away. The ever increasing technicalities and specifications of modern building has just made it so much harder. And yet , here we have a couple of rank amateurs who think it's simply a matter of doing "the easy bits" and getting "an expert" in to do the hard stuff. Maybe when my arthritic knee gets to painful i'll do the easy bit, cutting it open, and then get an "expert" in to do the rest. He's assured me he's an experienced surgeon. Seriously though, this just highlights how little most people understand about modern building. None of it's easy, you can f**k it up in so many ways. They might stop that roof leaking but it will never be right. Firstly it's to shallow, 17.5 min for those tiles. Something like a Sandtoft 20/20 will go down to 15 but then the devil is literally in the detail. Anywhere that you have a penetration , like a roof light or soil pipe then it's so difficult to flash, as soon as a tile kicks up slightly you pretty much lose the fall and the water will run out sideways, your flashing have to be much wider. You better make sure your underfelt is good. Velux flashings at these low pitches are pretty much useless , on site lead secret gutters are much better but expensive to do And on another point, soakers DO NOT work on those large interlocking tiles, again the water will simply run off the side before it reaches the next tile, you might possibly get away with a WIDE cover flashing but a secret gutter is the approved solution, especially for wall abutments. Sorry for being pedantic but we are having to deal with these low pitches so often because of big single storey extensions. The "architects" draw it and then somehow we have to build it. Don't even start on the insulation/ventilation/VCL saga.
@@ItzD3fW1sH It's exactly this. They think project management is easy but as soon as there is a problem it all goes tits up because they lack the technical knowledge to not only solve the problems but foresee them before they arise. The pitch of the roof should've been addressed right at the design stage. I've replied to someone else above explaining it in more depth if you want to find it.
Exactly, she even said she opted for the cheaper window, which looks like it’s designed for a flat roof and not pitched. I’m betting they got all the materials themselves and then just paid the lowest person they could find. See this all the time, blaming tradesmen because the customer knows best
MIght be the way to go as there's no way you'll get to see a doctor nowadays. Im willing to have a go at your knees if you like. Superglue, angle grinding and staples is my field. 18 months waiting list.
These tiles have a minimum pitch of 17.5 and require a 100mm head lap (which needs checking) meaning they are not suitable for this purpose. Some of the setting out looks awful and rain could drive back up. I’d not sleep at night during heavy rain with this roof. With cost in mind, I would have those tiles off set aside and install onduline prior to reinstating the tiles and re doing the roof light. Admire people tackling self build/project management but this is an example where it’s not a straightforward build and specialist details that require professional advice. If this was drawn by an architect/technician these issues wouldn’t have arisen they would have been spotted.
Yup its a botch up. Pitch to low and slowing water runoff far to much creating high risk of rain blow back under tiles and then having too rely on under felt which Is the last resort back stop. I work in grp and conventional roofing so strip all that crap off creat a solid waterproof grp or metal roof and if aesthetic look required tile over with something other than those ugly tiles,I’ve never yet seen a farmhouse with those hideous tiles on?
From the start it should have been a flat roof, the upstairs window cill are 2 close to the lead flashing There's not enough upstand to the lead flashing The roof windows should have a 150mm upstand above the roof If the were adamant on a pitched roof it needed to be a steeper pitch or used a rubber/fibreglass type of covering It's an absolute shambles from start to finish
I'm willing to bet there isn't an effective vapour barrier in that roof (especially with the lack of attention applied outside), especially with those recessed downlights, and I doubt they made a service void - and with moisture from a kitchen it's likely that the roof develops issues from the inside over time
Don’t forget on a vaulted ceilings, there’s two layers of insulation, between rafters then another cross laid across the rafters, in all the ones I’ve done, a vapour barrier has never been specified by the architect or asked for by building control.
The foil face can be good enough as a vapour barrier IF it is foil taped together AND you don't puncture it with downlights etc. If fitting services, lighting etc. then companies like Celotex will insist that a service void if formed beneath the vapour barrier. As an architectural designer I always spec a vapour barrier, and building control should pick up on it (doesn't mean they will, and they don't take responsibility anyway). I see this done wrong all the time, and the importance of the vapour barrier often isn't understood, particularly when people order the electrician to fit lighting etc.
Looks like the abutment flashing @ 5:33 might just be sealed to the blockwork, not stepped in (unrelated to the rooflights) - I'd be concerned that they don't have a cavity tray where the lower roof meets the wall of the two-storey part, so any penetrating moisture could drop down in the cavity. And that lead is looking stretched...
Why oh why would you not have just bought a proper pitched roof window such as a Velux, Keylite or even Fakro? EDIT: I now know, all in the name of saving money! Personally if a customer had told me they wanted to fit these roof windows in a pitched roof I would insist they change to Velux/Keylite or I would refuse the job.
Just out of interest did these people, while obviously trying to save money on the build go for the cheapest quote? I'm sorry but who ever did the roof covering was most definitely not a bona fide tradesman, its just a rough job all round.
That roof needs to come off. The pitch is too low for non profiled tiles. 17.5 degree minimum. Those rooflights seem bespoke. Better to use velux with proper flashings kits. If not then the lead needs to go over the glass. Shocking work
It was very telling when Vicky said " to keep costs down" I fear she was tempted by cheap quotes for the various aspects of the works, and got a cheap job sadly. She probably needs to find a good jobbing builder who can put all the bodges right bit by bit after getting plenty of advice from you as to what it should all look like when done properly. The first lesson of contracting is that cheap builders are bloody expensive.
I see 2 a month as bad as this if not worse. All good advice given if its not going to be stripped. The sarking felt used is not breathable but gas permeable this is the most common misunderstanding I see. Block up the light fittings and protrusions in the ceiling, its the No.1 best thing to do to help stop the migration of moisture into the above construction. I have the same opinion as Roger it's not broken don't try to fix it, so monitor it and see if you need to do anything. But fix the skylights.
Those windows will always cause headache, take them out and replace them with a proper window kit, even if you put a valley in and do a nice job of the flashing, ultimately you would still want to lift the window to get the flashing undernesth, which I assume some sort of Tiger Seal has been used to glue it down, in which case the chances of lifting it are very slim without damage. I have removed it before with a heat gun and acetone but the problem would be actually getting the acetone onto the sealant to start to melt it. Get an endoscope camera and check the inside of the ceiling void, the stains where the joists are running across the ceiling could very well be condensation. I don't know if you've used a vapour barrier, however, I can see there's alot of downlighters & speakers, so even if there was a vapour barrier there would be alot of weak points. It's best to check sooner rather than later, if you have condensation occuring in that ceiling/roof void it won't take long to rot the timbers. I'd say you'll probably be okay as tiles will give you some ventilation above, but do check before any damage is done to the timbers.
The roof lights were a false economy as no flashing kit was provided by the manufacturer, by the time you take into account the extra work and materials to form gutters a Velux or similar window would have been on par price wise if not cheaper. They would also have had the benefit of trickle ventilation and being able to open to let fresh air in.
"Lead soakers" on interlocking tiles (single lap)! No, wrong technology. True soakers are for double lap tiles like slates or Rosemarys etc. Continuous overlapping lengths of lead strips are required like shown BUT with at least a 100 upstand, preferable 150. Secret gutters not recommended on "flat" roofs like these, get clogged up too quickly. Extremely poor detailing on top abutment gutter.
That's designed to fail and leak. Two things I noticed without even watching the whole video but I have watched it all now. That's a ridiculously low pitch for a tiled roof. It should be a metal roof. Second, what are those dodgy skylights? Why not use Velux or similar? I would redo the whole job.
I would run from Mr Ross and Ms Vicky. All done on the cheap and full of subsequent fault-finding. I would like to spend an hour with the various builders unlucky enough to have been invited along to this self-build shambles.
Let’s be honest here either they’ve done it themselves with a friends help or they’ve gone for the lowest bidder and expected a professional, that’s just never going to happen and they’ve got nobody instructing or keeping an eye on the trades making sure small problems don’t become massive ones.
Unfortunately, this stuff happens when people try and cut costs and skimp on stuff. I fit kitchens and bathrooms and see shocking workmanship all the time. I have a job in a few weeks time where the customer has had an electrician fit his twenty grand kitchen and it’s a right mess. The customer having to pay for new end panels at over a grand and have all of the units unscrewed and re levelled as they are not flush with one another. If you try and save money or get stuff done on the cheap it often comes back to bite. This is a typical example of what happens when a bunch of builders that are happy to try and do the job on the cheap rock up. Everything has a cost to it if you want it done right. The second I get the impression that the customer is after a cheap job I just say it’s not for me and I’m not interested. I want to walk away knowing that both the customer and myself are pleased with the job so that they are happy to recommend me to someone else as I don’t advertise for work. If you haven’t got any pride in your work you aren’t a builder your a cowboy.
Customers are always right but can also be their own worst enemies ....every last detail should have been drawn up by a architect and followed to the letter . Looking at the gentleman and his wife my thought is a little knowledge is dangerous .
"...meanwhile Debby has dispensed with the second Architect, and has said she will be doing the design and supervision herself, from now on." (Kevin McCloud walks in the rain over the untidy deserted house-build). "...and has returned to London, to her work in the city as a legal manager, despite the builders wanting decisions on the cladding. And now the full floor-to-roof German eco-glazing system is arriving tonight by lorry, needing a crane to off-load.. And the costs are in the region of £350,000 over budget." ( cut to adverts for Walkers Crisps)
It's absolutely shocking; any architect, architectural technologist or surveyor would have designed an extension that worked from the outset. A holistic approach is required, not just package by package (silo thinking).This would have negated all of the massive mistakes. Low pitch uncomfortable abutments to other windows. Nobody would let a DiY mechanic do an in-depth service on a modern car like a BMW; but people seem to be quite happy to take this approach on construction, nuts !!!!
When the clueless try and project manage and just get the cheapest quote to do whatever trade. Sorry absolutely zero sympathy There is a reason Builders charge what they do to oversee projects.
Surely, Building control and the Architect are employed to prevent this. Roger, Please set up a list of contractors vetted by yourself, that can prove that they have a minimum standard of workmanship and proud of the work they do. Paying you 0.1% of the contract, for arguement sake. Recommendation is always best! Another great disaster film.
Ummm Total responsibility of design and construction from start-to-finish for, say, £100,000 of building for 0.1% (= £100). Sounds too good to miss. Form a queue here.
@@Storm.Z.4u better than dumb and dumber to do it. Getting rich and richer. Plus who left open the gates for the 🐮 boys to come into the industry. Not Roger!
It is possible to produce the bespoke style skylight that has been attempted here, if you use something like the Cappex system . The glass should have an overhang on the front etc. As others have said the pitch is wrong for the tiles. Also with any flat concrete cross bonded tile, you need to use a secret gutter system at all abutments and then a small lead saddle to bring the water back onto the tiles. I think this style of tile is a bit shit myself anyway for this reason and the fact that you rely on an unseen, brittle water-track with a 5mm upstand to keep the water out! Oh yeah and they battened it in wrong too lol
These horror stories seem to be more the norm. As someone who is looking to engage a builder for 2 projects, a garage conversion to home office/studio and a conservatory tear down to replace with a proper brick extension and solid roof how on earth do you sort the wheat from the chaff with builders?
Surely the lead should be lapped over the top of the timber up-stand? That would be my guess is the main culprit. Also you should get a window with a frame that sits over and down the up-stand. Even if you do flash the lead over up-stand you would still need to seal with silicone/mastic which will eventually fail. Doesn't seem a good detail/design. We have had a similar window installed recently where the lead was lapped over and the window frame sits down over the up-stand. A bad design made worse by bad installation.
That's a full on Cowboy effort. There are no flat concrete tiles that go down to 15 degrees so that is wrong for start. They have clearly laid the tile courses out wrong because they are uneven at the ridge. The roof windows are terrible they should have gone with a proprietary roof window and flashing kit such as those available from Velux or Keylite, a competent DIY'er can fit them. However the bigger problem is that the openings for the roof windows have been framed wrong hence why the plasterboard and insulation can be seen through the glass. for safety sake i would strip the lot off and get a professional roofer to sort it out. They could sell the concrete tiles online to recover some loses.
I hate getting a trade in. Price isn't always a guarantee quality. I'm ex trade (health prevents or hinders me doing some things). On the few occasions I've got a trade in, I've wished I'd done the job myself. I wonder if the builders concerned have seen this video, and better still read the comments from those in the trade? Any work now is a bodge on a bodge.
What makes someone think they can project manage something they have no experience in? As a main contractor/project manager you have to know (even if its not your trade) if somethings right or wrong and that comes with years of experience. Most builders would have spotted this at drawing stage. I would have suggested dropping the eaves level to achieve 17° and get some proper roof windows not that shite! The fact they don't come with a flashing kit says it all! All though the roof is a bit of a bodge it's the design that's at fault.... The pitch and those windows!
Beautiful bit of work,, ummm people moan about my price's to do nice work, properly,, 😂😂 potential customers favourite line is " BillyBob can do the job for x amount 🤕🤕 good luck i usually wish ummmm
The whole extension looks like a DIY project gone wrong.the Blockwork alone would question if it's been done right ,tied in etc cavity trays where needed .I'd rip them out for velux as there always going to be an issue
Bite the bullet, admit defeat. Take it all off, possibly including roof timbers (have the rafters been doubled up in key areas?). Start again, then youll start saving money. Dont even think about trying to save money by doing alternative repairs to the professionals advice given previously. Personally i would have used lead with lead rolls or welted, on a roof designed to take the weight. oh, and real rooflights and involve a professional, there are still good leadworkers at large. Start saving for the proper job!
Thermal collar round them windows to stop cold bridging is a must! Crap felt, Crap finishing, wrong tiles not gauged properly no pride in work at all. And that leadwork?? Idiots giving us a bad name
Great video , it doesn’t look a great job to be honest . They should have used velux windows . Ive had my velux windows in over twenty years now , and have never let me down . I also fitted them myself just following the instructions . They’re also not that expensive to be honest .
Jobs like this demonstrate the need for changes in the law. 1. All building work, including new builds, must be covered by the Sale of Goods Act 2015. 2. All builders must be covered by a bond that lasts for a reasonable period to cover their work. The bond should be included in the price of the job and be in existence so when jobs like this go wrong, the home owner claims against the bond. The price of a bond will vary - useless, incompetent builders will pay a fortune. The good ones will pay very little. If this drives people out of the business then good.
We don't need more laws. This was a self build by people who didn't really know what they were doing or from whom to seek advice. The manufacturers provided a full specification but there was no proper enquiry in this video about how the construction deviated from it. Get the people back and build to the spec. At the very least get the flashings off, form a proper back gutter under the tiles with a full upstand, fit soakers both sides, replace the cover flashings, and secure the upstands as suggested.
These are the problems I can see, I'm a building inspector. Roof pitch is not suitable for the tiles used on site. Roof tile head laps not enough. Roof tile spacings have been worked out very poorly, that is why the tile spacings at the top are too close together. No proper flashing kit for the roof lights. Roof lights appear to be a very cheap poorly designed product, more suited to flat roofs. I would go as far as to say they may not be fit for purpose, despite the manufacturers claims. Roof light upstand sized wrongly (too thick timbers), so there is no glass overhang around the edges of the rooflights, leaving no room for a proper flashing or sealant. A flashing kit should have been installed under the glass, on top of the upstand. If breather membrane has been used, it may be too tight not allowing water to run under the tile battens and away, hence the horizontal water mark, as it may be laying there. Cross ventilation is also required to cold roofs at opposing ends, of at least equivalent to a continuous 25mm vent at the top and bottom, a 25mm air void should be left between the insulation and roof covering/membrane. Relying on a breathable membrane alone is not enough. Lead upstands to roof against the walls should be at least 150mm tall, and around the 1st floor windows is nowhere near this. If the 2 storey extension is cavity wall, where the single storey extension abuts it, there should be a cavity tray / stepped cavity and weep holes. I don't agree that the whole roof doesn't need stripping back. I would remove everything back to insulation from the outside and install the correct tiles for the pitch, and install reputable roof lights and flashing kits from a proven company such as Velux.
Turned in a bid on a complete custom built kitchen redo with everything they asked for along with two days of hand drawings had to take today off while they drive three hours to IKEA to look at "less expensive"cabinets I think you can probably guess at least one thing these skylights, those cabinets and a turd all have in common.I have been a certified Pella/Velux installer for thirty years and have to say that is one crappy looking kit and install. Best advice for the homeowner would be to not request those fella's return back again.They should have at least asked the provider of the units for installer referral's.
Anything that is done to repair will be reliant on a sealant which isn’t good long term The glass is sitting flat on wood even if the lead was folded under the glass it would not make a great deal of difference there is no drip to stop the weather getting under the glass panel
The client is still trying to cut costs on.the solution. Take it out and put a Velux in or another one with a purpose kit. It looks like the client is the issue here cutting corners and costs. The client says "if we can do the same fir half the cost." Hindsight is a wonderful thing, never cut costs on the roof, everything else is affected as a result. I wonder if they used green plasterboard.
Building control should really pick up on this sort of thing throughout the build and let the home owners know before it gets to bad they can clearly see there not up to standard. Shoddy workmanship. I feel sorry for them people .hope they get it sorted.
Not convinced building control know what they're looking at to find the issues. Their expectation is that the roofer knows what they're doing and will question anything that doesn't seem right, which we know isn't always the case.
Building control don't look at overall quality of work They just do the basic is the build safe to sign off at various stages Not to sound too harsh but she's tried to save pennies from day one it was only ever going to end one way by scrimping & doing some of the jobs themselves 🙈 I blame home improvement shows on TV everyone thinks it's easy to complete a job to a high standard, until they try themselves 🙈
me personally I would take that shoddy workmanship completely off and start again I've been in the building game a long time and it's never worth bodging work
Pitch too low for tiles, Minimum pitch for mods is 17.5 degrees , gauge is a mess, membrane not brought far enough up the wall, flashings around windows not correctly installed, everything
The first sign that slaps you in the face that screams out cowboy is the gauging of the tiles. I think the main problem is the lack of headlap on the pitch of the roof. Shocking.
Supplied materials themselves, wanted it as cheap as possible. I wonder how many good builder walked away from this in the beginning. I have little sympathy...
15 degrees is too shallow and will allow rainwater to blow through. Marley state 17.5 degrees absolute minimum with an increased tile lap. The architect should have known this, or was an architect also omitted to reduce costs?
Journeyman glazier from across the pond, only commercial though. I would put some roll on tar like flashing underneath your roof tiles. Next, install an aluminium flashing that will dive underneath your roof tiles, and capture the top edge of the glass, with a 1/4" or like 6mm(?) gap, which can be sealed with silicone. I had to replace an entire commercial job I installed back in 2016, as every window leaked. Haven't suffered from leak issues since, and I've glazed a million square feet since then.
What a mess! If you are relying on less skilled builders then a Velux would have been a better choice, easier to get right in the first place and easier to fix afterwards. To properly fix this those glazed units need to come out, the membrane needs to be done properly and the flashing should tuck in to a rebate under the glass with a seal all round. Trying to patch up what is there is never going to last long.
Two of my neighbours have had extensions made ovef the last 6 months, both with cracked roof tiles, exposed insulation and wooden frames flying away with the first storm...what's going on with "trade experts"?
That's a full on Cowboy effort. There are no flat concrete tiles that go down to 15 degrees so that is wrong for start. They have clearly laid the tile courses out wrong because they are uneven at the ridge. The roof windows are terrible they should have gone with a proprietary roof window and flashing kit such as those available from Velux or Keylite, a competent DIY'er can fit them. However the bigger problem is that the openings for the roof windows have been framed wrong hence why the plasterboard and insulation can be seen through the glass. for safety sake i would strip the lot off and get a professional roofer to sort it out. They could sell the concrete tiles online to recover some loses.
That whole job is a mess, how do so called builders get away with such bad work, apart from the roof light's , the block work looks like steivie wonder the bricky did it, roof tiles were layed by mr mugoo. My god disgusting.
If you think a professional is expensive wait until you employ an amateur.
True lol. Gonna cost them more over the years now to keep stopping leaks.
Hard to know if you have employed an amateur until it's done. Cost or reputation is not an indicator. I've read a thousand reviews of ' great tidy work ' when there is no way that the owner could've checked any of the work. And usually reviews are posted days after the job is done.. do there's no time for any errors to appear
.
Amen.
Here we go, John Rusin said the same thing.
The issue is that they probably paid the price of a professional and still got an amateur. Looks like a crap job all round to me.
I’ve only just finished watching this and being a roofer myself I’m sorry to say you would be better off ripping it off and doing it properly. If your having problems now, trying to fix some of the problems is basically putting lipstick on a pig. Take it off do it properly and you won’t have to worry about problems in the future.
what i think also worse new roof ive seen in the 24 yrs
That's just lazy. Any decent roofer should fix that problem
This video made me genuinely sad, but not for Ross&Vicky, rather for our trade. The reason why they are in this mess is not that they cannot afford a better builder or a high quality project. They drive a Tesla (to see at the begin of the video), they can afford such a two storey extension etc. etc. I suspect that the real reason is, and this is a huge problem nowadays, that they simply don't value the job of a (roof) builder. The fact that you have to pay for a good, high quality job hasn't dawned on them. People have stopped valuing blue collar jobs, they stopped appreciating the experience, skills developed over years, knowledge. They watch a couple of UA-cam videos and think "oh that's so simple, I can do it too, if not, I won't pay much for this job". It is a mess - I am almost tempted to say they deserve this.
As for the job itself, honestly, tear it down, do it again, properly. It would save you a lot more in the long run.
Here is a classic case of ‘we didn’t want to pay the money and opted for the cheapest’. I guarantee you they sourced the materials themselves and then found the cheapest roofer on check a trade. Funny how this sort of work only appears when “we done most the work ourselves”, it’s quite clear they didn’t want to spend the money and now complaining the works shite 🤷♂️😂
Absolutely right!!!
You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Agree with that ,you get exactly what you pay for they should bite the bullet and get a proper professional rather than trying to fix it themselves when they don't know what there doing
I hear you.
You don't know this do you?
Absolutely. They are /were on a budget (as we all are) trying to save money doing things themselves, probably managing and went for the cheapest option on the labour and thinking they can spec everything themselves.
I've no sympathy for people like this who bring it upon themselves by employing idiots.
I despair for the younger guys trying to do a good job for people who want to pay peanuts.
A word to the wise.
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur ;)
Poor advice given in my opinion the roof needs to come off and correct tiles for the low pitch situation fitted. The coursing of the tiles differs on both pitches of the roof. The correct water proofing and flashing detail around the roof lights also needs to be introduced. Not good advice given in my opinion.
Agree, Rogers a plumber or general builder? He is knowledgeable but he’s talking crap on this one.
Hard to know who is a genuine honest builder , a genuine but over priced builder, a genuine but lower priced builder, or a cowboy builder. A cowboy could be dearer than a good lower priced genuine builder.. so 'getting what you pay for' isn't a good benchmark.. Also if you own a two or three story house there is no way to inspect work yourself ...
The roof tiles are not even spaced out properly. Rough job !!
Especially either side of the ridge tiles!
This is a massive problem for us that specialises in roofing,clown builders and internet clients,no way that was done by a time served roofer.
Not everyone who isn't a roofer bad. Renewed my whole flat roof including upstand and lantern with a mate (neither of us roofers) and got a roofer to felt it all up. Almost 2 years and not leaking (touch wood).
@@Jaaammmbbbooo you got a roofer to felt it up?? Then you used a felt roofer ?
Agreed.
What do you mean??
@@Jaaammmbbbooo just read what you posted, got a roofer to felt it up ? That's why my I replied you used a roofer then ,that's what I meant.
Looks like they've built the kerb too wide for your rooflights, they're not overhanging enough. And that lead is atrocious. Then they've used insulated plasterboard inside, so the overall thickness is so wide that it exceeds the black margin of the glass.
Those rooflights can be absolutely fine if installed correctly - mine is perfect, but my single ply membrane dresses up and over the kerb, they have a generous overhang, and the water all drains away on the flat roof. That particular manufacturer doesn't recommend them for pitched roofs, whereas some don't care... but they're not guaranteeing the roof are they
Sadly for this family there are just so many defects with this extension that can clearly be seen, that we can safely say there will be countless things wrong that can't be seen, some that could take longer than 8 months to manifest - woes won't end with those rooflights
I’m sorry but that is horrendous workmanship, Just a few things spring to mind:
• Roof battens/tiles incorrectly gauged leading to a terrible short course.
• Roof tile bonds not central.
• Dry verge caps terrible installed.
• Need to ensure lead soakers are installed where it meets the wall not just lead cover flashing.
• The flashing needs redoing around the roof windows with soakers installed.
• Ensure at least 100mm headlap on the tiles due to low pitch.
• Ensure 150mm lap on the membrane due to low pitch.
• Probably no eaves ventilation.
If they planned to live in the house long term i would personally start fresh on the roof, Remove all the tiles, batten, membrane and roof lights. Install the new low pitch Velux roof windows which has their our flashing kit instead of that terrible lead around the windows, New low pitch klober membrane, New marley mendip 12.5 degree roof tiles that are designed for these lower pitches and new lead step flashing against the wall with soakers.
I think 15° is the minimum allowed for Velux so might not need the expensive and ugly pitch changer flashing.
@@TurinTuramber Velux have now released new low pitched roof windows which go down to 10° and comes with a nice recessed flashing kit.
@@RPT7 That's very interesting Rhys, could be handy for the single storey full length extensions. 10° is a flat roof!
I don’t know where to start Roger, I’m a general builder not a roofer but do most of my own roofs, I’ve seen some terrible work but that is right up there.
The gauge of the tiles is terrible, doesn’t even match the other side, I’m guessing they weren’t roofers or experienced guys, I can’t believe any half decent trade would leave it like that.
I’ve lost count the amount of jobs I’ve seen like this where customers have tried to save money by project managing the job themselves and trying to save money, what you get is each trade coming in and frankly not giving a f**k.
It’s why I prefer to be in charge, that way, the buck stops with me.
It’s pretty shitty of the window glass supplier not to supply a flashing kit too in my opinion.
Whole roof needs stripping off and redoing tbh, I wouldn’t trust any of it.
Apart from the big problems with the roof lights, the gauge of the tiles is way out! It looks like they’ve started at the facia, worked their way up and hoped for the best at the ridge!!
Defo.
Done by someone who does not have the knowledge. Roof tiles should be equally spaced from fascia to ridge.
@@davidchi1277 Hi My experience of roof work, I have always started at the bottom laying the soaker on top of the slate or concrete tile as you would, Prep work bending the lead over a plank to form the L shape, all depending on the situation, carry on placing the soakers on top of each tile, etc, reverse the L shape to go over the soaker. guaranteed to work. regards welshman 2081
Obviously they wert never in a bookies as they can't count. Shambles of a job
I noticed that straight away i mainly do slates when I do roofs. Ive only tiled a few roofs and I know how to gauge it out so you don’t end up with a daft cut or what they done lol
A proper lead worker could create the correct traditional flashing to code that would solve the problem without a doubt but unfortunately the glass needs to be removed to flash it correctly as detailed otherwise is is just a matter of time before it fails again, unlikely to be a DIY enthusiast job though, you need to employ someone with the right skills and knowledge, it will cost what it costs but you will only need to pay once to have the issue rectified.
Surprised it only leaks that much.
Umm me too. Maybe they could cover the lot with clear pastic and tape the four sides down? THen asphalt over the lot!
Probably cheaper in the long run to remove the roof and get a professional reputable company to do it correctly
I’m a roofer and this is why I’m coming out of it. There to many of these cowboys out there now taking the work of the genuine trades men. Seems the roofing trade is the worse for it.
Well said Jonathan, our experience was this, we had to try & match or at least be reasonably close to some ridiculous quotes, not always but it wasn’t uncommon. And as you rightly state the building business in general & the roofing in particular seemed to attract a host of cowboys. We, in the past have done countless roofing jobs where the workmanship was beyond belief garbage & I’m talking 99% of the time. As I said in an earlier reply, “pay peanuts, get monkeys” I’m glad we moved our operation to Stateside, it’s a bloody nightmare working in the UK.
Building trade is a mess - public views trades as a second class because of it.
They had a ridge vent tiles so I would check if there is a 50mm gap and ventilation at the eves for a through passage of air.
Shame it’s getting hard to find decent roofers now.
Absolutely correct Jonathan, I actually fitted my own Velux window after seeing my roofer open the box and throwing away the felt shirt and telling me he never using it.
Anyone looking for tradesperson should use Which Trusted Traders
I have been a member of this scheme for many years and they do verify customer reviews before posting them.
All the tradespersons I have used from Which have been awesome, those recommend by others not so good.
I advise through Trustatrader but even that’s gone quiet this year prob few to prices of everything going up which means people are more likely to fall for the cowboy prices.
I've used Velux roof windows since I began in building in 1984.
I've never had one fail. However, 15 degrees is pretty shallow....
Don’t velux now supply ones that will go as low as 10 degrees !
I’ve fitted them at 15° before but you do get more silt build up and they require regular maintenance, I had one on my old kitchen extension, never leaked via the flashing but from the window itself when the draining holes got plugged with crap.
They used to do a flashing kit that goes down low but to be honest they look bloody terrible.
What you're really saying is you've never been told they've failed.
I can put a Velux kit on while asleep and they never leak.
Classic example of people trying to do something they're woefully unqualified to do. The roofers, and the client. Whole build looks a total bodge.
After 40 odd years in the building trade i'm glad that in a few years i can walk away.
The ever increasing technicalities and specifications of modern building has just made it so much harder.
And yet , here we have a couple of rank amateurs who think it's simply a matter of doing "the easy bits" and getting "an expert" in to do the hard stuff.
Maybe when my arthritic knee gets to painful i'll do the easy bit, cutting it open, and then get an "expert" in to do the rest. He's assured me he's an experienced surgeon.
Seriously though, this just highlights how little most people understand about modern building. None of it's easy, you can f**k it up in so many ways.
They might stop that roof leaking but it will never be right.
Firstly it's to shallow, 17.5 min for those tiles. Something like a Sandtoft 20/20 will go down to 15 but then the devil is literally in the detail.
Anywhere that you have a penetration , like a roof light or soil pipe then it's so difficult to flash, as soon as a tile kicks up slightly you pretty much lose the fall and the water will run out sideways, your flashing have to be much wider. You better make sure your underfelt is good.
Velux flashings at these low pitches are pretty much useless , on site lead secret gutters are much better but expensive to do
And on another point, soakers DO NOT work on those large interlocking tiles, again the water will simply run off the side before it reaches the next tile, you might possibly get away with a WIDE cover flashing but a secret gutter is the approved solution, especially for wall abutments.
Sorry for being pedantic but we are having to deal with these low pitches so often because of big single storey extensions. The "architects" draw it and then somehow we have to build it.
Don't even start on the insulation/ventilation/VCL saga.
@@ItzD3fW1sH It's exactly this. They think project management is easy but as soon as there is a problem it all goes tits up because they lack the technical knowledge to not only solve the problems but foresee them before they arise. The pitch of the roof should've been addressed right at the design stage.
I've replied to someone else above explaining it in more depth if you want to find it.
Exactly, she even said she opted for the cheaper window, which looks like it’s designed for a flat roof and not pitched. I’m betting they got all the materials themselves and then just paid the lowest person they could find. See this all the time, blaming tradesmen because the customer knows best
MIght be the way to go as there's no way you'll get to see a doctor nowadays. Im willing to have a go at your knees if you like. Superglue, angle grinding and staples is my field. 18 months waiting list.
These tiles have a minimum pitch of 17.5 and require a 100mm head lap (which needs checking) meaning they are not suitable for this purpose. Some of the setting out looks awful and rain could drive back up.
I’d not sleep at night during heavy rain with this roof. With cost in mind, I would have those tiles off set aside and install onduline prior to reinstating the tiles and re doing the roof light.
Admire people tackling self build/project management but this is an example where it’s not a straightforward build and specialist details that require professional advice. If this was drawn by an architect/technician these issues wouldn’t have arisen they would have been spotted.
terrible setting out, its hard to look at, id have to start over if it was me
Yup its a botch up. Pitch to low and slowing water runoff far to much creating high risk of rain blow back under tiles and then having too rely on under felt which Is the last resort back stop. I work in grp and conventional roofing so strip all that crap off creat a solid waterproof grp or metal roof and if aesthetic look required tile over with something other than those ugly tiles,I’ve never yet seen a farmhouse with those hideous tiles on?
@@Storm.Z.4u fibre glass is an awful finish, should only be used when no one can see it!
From the start it should have been a flat roof, the upstairs window cill are 2 close to the lead flashing
There's not enough upstand to the lead flashing
The roof windows should have a 150mm upstand above the roof
If the were adamant on a pitched roof it needed to be a steeper pitch or used a rubber/fibreglass type of covering
It's an absolute shambles from start to finish
Doesn't need to be a steeper roof, just installed correctly and or a different roofing system.
@@Robert-cu9bm exactly what my comment says!!
I'm willing to bet there isn't an effective vapour barrier in that roof (especially with the lack of attention applied outside), especially with those recessed downlights, and I doubt they made a service void - and with moisture from a kitchen it's likely that the roof develops issues from the inside over time
Don’t forget on a vaulted ceilings, there’s two layers of insulation, between rafters then another cross laid across the rafters, in all the ones I’ve done, a vapour barrier has never been specified by the architect or asked for by building control.
The foil face can be good enough as a vapour barrier IF it is foil taped together AND you don't puncture it with downlights etc. If fitting services, lighting etc. then companies like Celotex will insist that a service void if formed beneath the vapour barrier. As an architectural designer I always spec a vapour barrier, and building control should pick up on it (doesn't mean they will, and they don't take responsibility anyway). I see this done wrong all the time, and the importance of the vapour barrier often isn't understood, particularly when people order the electrician to fit lighting etc.
There the wrong tiles on the roof. Marley mods go to 17.5 degrees
Looks like the abutment flashing @ 5:33 might just be sealed to the blockwork, not stepped in (unrelated to the rooflights) - I'd be concerned that they don't have a cavity tray where the lower roof meets the wall of the two-storey part, so any penetrating moisture could drop down in the cavity. And that lead is looking stretched...
I’d second that. Did you see any weep hole at the bottom tray to let the water out.
I had to badger my builder to put cavity trays in as we're on plans . So annoying
@bruce dickinson 12 Did he run to the hills afterwards?
Why oh why would you not have just bought a proper pitched roof window such as a Velux, Keylite or even Fakro?
EDIT: I now know, all in the name of saving money!
Personally if a customer had told me they wanted to fit these roof windows in a pitched roof I would insist they change to Velux/Keylite or I would refuse the job.
Just out of interest did these people, while obviously trying to save money on the build go for the cheapest quote? I'm sorry but who ever did the roof covering was most definitely not a bona fide tradesman, its just a rough job all round.
That roof needs to come off. The pitch is too low for non profiled tiles. 17.5 degree minimum. Those rooflights seem bespoke. Better to use velux with proper flashings kits. If not then the lead needs to go over the glass. Shocking work
Velux windows should only be fitted to a pitch greater than 15 degrees I wouldn’t recommend fitting to this pitch.
They have a Velux that goes to 10°
@@paulhadfield3033 you can get velux that go down to 10 degrees. You can also make custom flashings in lead or hard metal if you have the skills
Marleys web site says those tiles need a minimum of 17.5* pitch.
Exactly
It was very telling when Vicky said " to keep costs down" I fear she was tempted by cheap quotes for the various aspects of the works, and got a cheap job sadly. She probably needs to find a good jobbing builder who can put all the bodges right bit by bit after getting plenty of advice from you as to what it should all look like when done properly.
The first lesson of contracting is that cheap builders are bloody expensive.
I see 2 a month as bad as this if not worse. All good advice given if its not going to be stripped. The sarking felt used is not breathable but gas permeable this is the most common misunderstanding I see. Block up the light fittings and protrusions in the ceiling, its the No.1 best thing to do to help stop the migration of moisture into the above construction. I have the same opinion as Roger it's not broken don't try to fix it, so monitor it and see if you need to do anything. But fix the skylights.
The legend speaks, not so many posts on your channel Steve these days? Nice to see you posting here. Do you also do pitched roofs.
Those windows will always cause headache, take them out and replace them with a proper window kit, even if you put a valley in and do a nice job of the flashing, ultimately you would still want to lift the window to get the flashing undernesth, which I assume some sort of Tiger Seal has been used to glue it down, in which case the chances of lifting it are very slim without damage. I have removed it before with a heat gun and acetone but the problem would be actually getting the acetone onto the sealant to start to melt it.
Get an endoscope camera and check the inside of the ceiling void, the stains where the joists are running across the ceiling could very well be condensation. I don't know if you've used a vapour barrier, however, I can see there's alot of downlighters & speakers, so even if there was a vapour barrier there would be alot of weak points. It's best to check sooner rather than later, if you have condensation occuring in that ceiling/roof void it won't take long to rot the timbers. I'd say you'll probably be okay as tiles will give you some ventilation above, but do check before any damage is done to the timbers.
The roof lights were a false economy as no flashing kit was provided by the manufacturer, by the time you take into account the extra work and materials to form gutters a Velux or similar window would have been on par price wise if not cheaper. They would also have had the benefit of trickle ventilation and being able to open to let fresh air in.
Depends on the style they want.
Not to add by the time you've bought all the lead needed velux with the proper fitting kit would of been cheeper and quicker
"Lead soakers" on interlocking tiles (single lap)! No, wrong technology. True soakers are for double lap tiles like slates or Rosemarys etc. Continuous overlapping lengths of lead strips are required like shown BUT with at least a 100 upstand, preferable 150. Secret gutters not recommended on "flat" roofs like these, get clogged up too quickly. Extremely poor detailing on top abutment gutter.
Not the choice I would have gone for - no vents - where is all the condensation going to go, other than run down the reveal?
That's designed to fail and leak. Two things I noticed without even watching the whole video but I have watched it all now. That's a ridiculously low pitch for a tiled roof. It should be a metal roof. Second, what are those dodgy skylights? Why not use Velux or similar? I would redo the whole job.
The dog is probably pretty good at roofing.
Especially when somebody knocks on the front door.
Well it was pretty "Ruff"
I would run from Mr Ross and Ms Vicky. All done on the cheap and full of subsequent fault-finding. I would like to spend an hour with the various builders unlucky enough to have been invited along to this self-build shambles.
Ive stopped the vid near beginning just to say you do not use tiles on a 15 degree roof .
Let’s be honest here either they’ve done it themselves with a friends help or they’ve gone for the lowest bidder and expected a professional, that’s just never going to happen and they’ve got nobody instructing or keeping an eye on the trades making sure small problems don’t become massive ones.
Unfortunately, this stuff happens when people try and cut costs and skimp on stuff. I fit kitchens and bathrooms and see shocking workmanship all the time. I have a job in a few weeks time where the customer has had an electrician fit his twenty grand kitchen and it’s a right mess. The customer having to pay for new end panels at over a grand and have all of the units unscrewed and re levelled as they are not flush with one another. If you try and save money or get stuff done on the cheap it often comes back to bite. This is a typical example of what happens when a bunch of builders that are happy to try and do the job on the cheap rock up. Everything has a cost to it if you want it done right. The second I get the impression that the customer is after a cheap job I just say it’s not for me and I’m not interested. I want to walk away knowing that both the customer and myself are pleased with the job so that they are happy to recommend me to someone else as I don’t advertise for work. If you haven’t got any pride in your work you aren’t a builder your a cowboy.
Customers are always right but can also be their own worst enemies ....every last detail should have been drawn up by a architect and followed to the letter . Looking at the gentleman and his wife my thought is a little knowledge is dangerous .
People always know too much but not enough
My x mother inlaw was a cunt for this
Absolutely spot on.
"...meanwhile Debby has dispensed with the second Architect, and has said she will be doing the design and supervision herself, from now on." (Kevin McCloud walks in the rain over the untidy deserted house-build). "...and has returned to London, to her work in the city as a legal manager, despite the builders wanting decisions on the cladding. And now the full floor-to-roof German eco-glazing system is arriving tonight by lorry, needing a crane to off-load.. And the costs are in the region of £350,000 over budget." ( cut to adverts for Walkers Crisps)
It's absolutely shocking; any architect, architectural technologist or surveyor would have designed an extension that worked from the outset. A holistic approach is required, not just package by package (silo thinking).This would have negated all of the massive mistakes. Low pitch uncomfortable abutments to other windows. Nobody would let a DiY mechanic do an in-depth service on a modern car like a BMW; but people seem to be quite happy to take this approach on construction, nuts !!!!
You need to name and shame that roofing company as if he did this to you then he will do it to others as well.
When the clueless try and project manage and just get the cheapest quote to do whatever trade. Sorry absolutely zero sympathy There is a reason Builders charge what they do to oversee projects.
Surely, Building control and the Architect are employed to prevent this.
Roger, Please set up a list of contractors vetted by yourself, that can prove that they have a minimum standard of workmanship and proud of the work they do.
Paying you 0.1% of the contract, for arguement sake.
Recommendation is always best!
Another great disaster film.
Ummm Total responsibility of design and construction from start-to-finish for, say, £100,000 of building for 0.1% (= £100). Sounds too good to miss. Form a queue here.
@@Storm.Z.4u better than dumb and dumber to do it. Getting rich and richer.
Plus who left open the gates for the 🐮 boys to come into the industry.
Not Roger!
I'm not a builder or roofer but it looks like a monty halls up of a job
It is possible to produce the bespoke style skylight that has been attempted here, if you use something like the Cappex system . The glass should have an overhang on the front etc. As others have said the pitch is wrong for the tiles. Also with any flat concrete cross bonded tile, you need to use a secret gutter system at all abutments and then a small lead saddle to bring the water back onto the tiles. I think this style of tile is a bit shit myself anyway for this reason and the fact that you rely on an unseen, brittle water-track with a 5mm upstand to keep the water out!
Oh yeah and they battened it in wrong too lol
These horror stories seem to be more the norm. As someone who is looking to engage a builder for 2 projects, a garage conversion to home office/studio and a conservatory tear down to replace with a proper brick extension and solid roof how on earth do you sort the wheat from the chaff with builders?
Surely the lead should be lapped over the top of the timber up-stand? That would be my guess is the main culprit. Also you should get a window with a frame that sits over and down the up-stand. Even if you do flash the lead over up-stand you would still need to seal with silicone/mastic which will eventually fail. Doesn't seem a good detail/design. We have had a similar window installed recently where the lead was lapped over and the window frame sits down over the up-stand. A bad design made worse by bad installation.
Or just use a velux or similar with proper flashing kits and stop trying to make problems for yourself.
Ice, yes indeed, simple weather shedding measures going back to first-principles.
Whole things a mess. Starting with the roof pitch.
That's a full on Cowboy effort. There are no flat concrete tiles that go down to 15 degrees so that is wrong for start. They have clearly laid the tile courses out wrong because they are uneven at the ridge. The roof windows are terrible they should have gone with a proprietary roof window and flashing kit such as those available from Velux or Keylite, a competent DIY'er can fit them. However the bigger problem is that the openings for the roof windows have been framed wrong hence why the plasterboard and insulation can be seen through the glass. for safety sake i would strip the lot off and get a professional roofer to sort it out. They could sell the concrete tiles online to recover some loses.
I bet they went for the cheapest quote ……
I'll pop round with a couple of rolls of 4" flashband, and the jobs a good - un. 🤣
if you don't do it yourself, 90% of the time you will have work to fix anyway.
I hate getting a trade in. Price isn't always a guarantee quality. I'm ex trade (health prevents or hinders me doing some things). On the few occasions I've got a trade in, I've wished I'd done the job myself.
I wonder if the builders concerned have seen this video, and better still read the comments from those in the trade? Any work now is a bodge on a bodge.
What makes someone think they can project manage something they have no experience in?
As a main contractor/project manager you have to know (even if its not your trade) if somethings right or wrong and that comes with years of experience.
Most builders would have spotted this at drawing stage.
I would have suggested dropping the eaves level to achieve 17° and get some proper roof windows not that shite! The fact they don't come with a flashing kit says it all!
All though the roof is a bit of a bodge it's the design that's at fault.... The pitch and those windows!
This is where self project management with no experience falls down
Any time you have to use flash band flashing other than a temporary repair , it’s a bodge job
Beautiful bit of work,, ummm people moan about my price's to do nice work, properly,, 😂😂 potential customers favourite line is " BillyBob can do the job for x amount 🤕🤕 good luck i usually wish ummmm
Well well it's just all wrong really isn't it😮
The name of the strip roger is talking about to the abutments is called a termination bar, mainly used with pvc and Epdm roofs .
The whole extension looks like a DIY project gone wrong.the Blockwork alone would question if it's been done right ,tied in etc cavity trays where needed .I'd rip them out for velux as there always going to be an issue
Bite the bullet, admit defeat. Take it all off, possibly including roof timbers (have the rafters been doubled up in key areas?). Start again, then youll start saving money. Dont even think about trying to save money by doing alternative repairs to the professionals advice given previously. Personally i would have used lead with lead rolls or welted, on a roof designed to take the weight. oh, and real rooflights and involve a professional, there are still good leadworkers at large. Start saving for the proper job!
Thermal collar round them windows to stop cold bridging is a must! Crap felt, Crap finishing, wrong tiles not gauged properly no pride in work at all. And that leadwork?? Idiots giving us a bad name
Take them out and do it properly! They are the wrong windows for the roof.
Great video , it doesn’t look a great job to be honest . They should have used velux windows . Ive had my velux windows in over twenty years now , and have never let me down . I also fitted them myself just following the instructions . They’re also not that expensive to be honest .
Jobs like this demonstrate the need for changes in the law. 1. All building work, including new builds, must be covered by the Sale of Goods Act 2015. 2. All builders must be covered by a bond that lasts for a reasonable period to cover their work. The bond should be included in the price of the job and be in existence so when jobs like this go wrong, the home owner claims against the bond. The price of a bond will vary - useless, incompetent builders will pay a fortune. The good ones will pay very little. If this drives people out of the business then good.
We don't need more laws. This was a self build by people who didn't really know what they were doing or from whom to seek advice. The manufacturers provided a full specification but there was no proper enquiry in this video about how the construction deviated from it. Get the people back and build to the spec. At the very least get the flashings off, form a proper back gutter under the tiles with a full upstand, fit soakers both sides, replace the cover flashings, and secure the upstands as suggested.
bash a bit in, bacon roll, bash more in, get paid, back in the van boys hometime! jobs done!
Employ crap and you get crap. I should know, finding a decent tradesman in my area seems impossible.
These are the problems I can see, I'm a building inspector.
Roof pitch is not suitable for the tiles used on site.
Roof tile head laps not enough.
Roof tile spacings have been worked out very poorly, that is why the tile spacings at the top are too close together.
No proper flashing kit for the roof lights.
Roof lights appear to be a very cheap poorly designed product, more suited to flat roofs. I would go as far as to say they may not be fit for purpose, despite the manufacturers claims.
Roof light upstand sized wrongly (too thick timbers), so there is no glass overhang around the edges of the rooflights, leaving no room for a proper flashing or sealant.
A flashing kit should have been installed under the glass, on top of the upstand.
If breather membrane has been used, it may be too tight not allowing water to run under the tile battens and away, hence the horizontal water mark, as it may be laying there.
Cross ventilation is also required to cold roofs at opposing ends, of at least equivalent to a continuous 25mm vent at the top and bottom, a 25mm air void should be left between the insulation and roof covering/membrane. Relying on a breathable membrane alone is not enough.
Lead upstands to roof against the walls should be at least 150mm tall, and around the 1st floor windows is nowhere near this.
If the 2 storey extension is cavity wall, where the single storey extension abuts it, there should be a cavity tray / stepped cavity and weep holes.
I don't agree that the whole roof doesn't need stripping back. I would remove everything back to insulation from the outside and install the correct tiles for the pitch, and install reputable roof lights and flashing kits from a proven company such as Velux.
Turned in a bid on a complete custom built kitchen redo with everything they asked for along with two days of hand drawings had to take today off while they drive three hours to IKEA to look at "less expensive"cabinets I think you can probably guess at least one thing these skylights, those cabinets and a turd all have in common.I have been a certified Pella/Velux installer for thirty years and have to say that is one crappy looking kit and install. Best advice for the homeowner would be to not request those fella's return back again.They should have at least asked the provider of the units for installer referral's.
The whole building wants knocked down and done again , absolute shambles
Buy once, cry once.
Don;t peep underneath the tiles and play about with it,--strip it, sort the flashing, set- out properly and re-lay the tiles, job will be a good-un!
Bodge it and flea roofing ltd, probably should have plastered the gables before tiling the roof , more broken tiles
Anything that is done to repair will be reliant on a sealant which isn’t good long term
The glass is sitting flat on wood even if the lead was folded under the glass it would not make a great deal of difference there is no drip to stop the weather getting under the glass panel
It’s a mess, I’d recommend stripping it for sure and would also look closely at every other bit of roofing on the extension…. Very poor work.
I have Marley Moderns on my 1971 bungalow and only now, 51 years later, some need replacing. Lovely roof tile.
Beatiful tiles.I like a Marley Major myself :^)
What is with the odd tiles second row from top!
Personally I’d have the full roof stripped and also fit the more expensive roof lights
As soon as a woman says 'silicone' you know you're in trouble
The client is still trying to cut costs on.the solution. Take it out and put a Velux in or another one with a purpose kit. It looks like the client is the issue here cutting corners and costs. The client says "if we can do the same fir half the cost." Hindsight is a wonderful thing, never cut costs on the roof, everything else is affected as a result. I wonder if they used green plasterboard.
British builders are absolute bodgers
Should have went with a flat roof to be honest.
Building control should really pick up on this sort of thing throughout the build and let the home owners know before it gets to bad they can clearly see there not up to standard. Shoddy workmanship. I feel sorry for them people .hope they get it sorted.
Judging by that workmanship, unlikely they requested visits from Building Control
Not convinced building control know what they're looking at to find the issues. Their expectation is that the roofer knows what they're doing and will question anything that doesn't seem right, which we know isn't always the case.
Building control don't look at overall quality of work
They just do the basic is the build safe to sign off at various stages
Not to sound too harsh but she's tried to save pennies from day one it was only ever going to end one way by scrimping & doing some of the jobs themselves 🙈
I blame home improvement shows on TV everyone thinks it's easy to complete a job to a high standard, until they try themselves 🙈
Why not just use a velex / keylite window
me personally I would take that shoddy workmanship completely off and start again I've been in the building game a long time and it's never worth bodging work
The roof pitch determines the flashing anything under 17.5degrees is in my view too shallow using a proper manufactured roof window is the way to go
I would guess the plasterboard edges should be concealed by the black border on the glass
It would be if the internal reveals were not insulated..
Pitch too low for tiles, Minimum pitch for mods is 17.5 degrees , gauge is a mess, membrane not brought far enough up the wall, flashings around windows not correctly installed, everything
The first sign that slaps you in the face that screams out cowboy is the gauging of the tiles.
I think the main problem is the lack of headlap on the pitch of the roof. Shocking.
wow. thats gonna be quite some list of whats wrong. be easier to list whats done right. the tiles are on the roof.
thats aboot it
Supplied materials themselves, wanted it as cheap as possible. I wonder how many good builder walked away from this in the beginning. I have little sympathy...
Buy cheap by twice (#Cowboys)
15 degrees is too shallow and will allow rainwater to blow through. Marley state 17.5 degrees absolute minimum with an increased tile lap. The architect should have known this, or was an architect also omitted to reduce costs?
Journeyman glazier from across the pond, only commercial though.
I would put some roll on tar like flashing underneath your roof tiles. Next, install an aluminium flashing that will dive underneath your roof tiles, and capture the top edge of the glass, with a 1/4" or like 6mm(?) gap, which can be sealed with silicone.
I had to replace an entire commercial job I installed back in 2016, as every window leaked. Haven't suffered from leak issues since, and I've glazed a million square feet since then.
What a mess! If you are relying on less skilled builders then a Velux would have been a better choice, easier to get right in the first place and easier to fix afterwards.
To properly fix this those glazed units need to come out, the membrane needs to be done properly and the flashing should tuck in to a rebate under the glass with a seal all round. Trying to patch up what is there is never going to last long.
Good job we haven't had any rain in months otherwise you would have a pond indoors, hope and no hope ! not sure which one you had fit the roof lights
Two of my neighbours have had extensions made ovef the last 6 months, both with cracked roof tiles, exposed insulation and wooden frames flying away with the first storm...what's going on with "trade experts"?
That's a full on Cowboy effort. There are no flat concrete tiles that go down to 15 degrees so that is wrong for start. They have clearly laid the tile courses out wrong because they are uneven at the ridge. The roof windows are terrible they should have gone with a proprietary roof window and flashing kit such as those available from Velux or Keylite, a competent DIY'er can fit them. However the bigger problem is that the openings for the roof windows have been framed wrong hence why the plasterboard and insulation can be seen through the glass. for safety sake i would strip the lot off and get a professional roofer to sort it out. They could sell the concrete tiles online to recover some loses.
If they had only paid a proffesional to build this.
Hang on…. 8 months ago… building control signed that off??!?
That whole job is a mess, how do so called builders get away with such bad work, apart from the roof light's , the block work looks like steivie wonder the bricky did it, roof tiles were layed by mr mugoo. My god disgusting.
I live in Stafford interested to know who did this