Estinien showing up randomly in Dawntrail and then wandering off immediately was the only Scion use I had zero problems with, because it at least felt *in character*. He's mentioned offhand a couple things enough times to make it clear (to me, I guess) that unless there's something he has to stay still for to help with (the end of the world, Vrtra's stuff, etc), he basically spends his time doing the same shit YOU do. He does FATEs, he does treasure maps, he travels around to see what's there. He's an adventurer, doing adventurer shit.
Why did Estinien show up? My pet theory is that he spent the first 30 years of his life dedicated to revenge, and fully expected to die in taking it. After he's saved by Alphinaud, the WoL, and some timely assistance by ghosts, he's got a second chance at life at he is gonna take FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT. He's an adventurer now, just like the WoL, so he's gonna go where the wind takes him. Whether that's to the east at Thavnair, or to the west to go spar with the king of Tural, he has freedom he didn't have as the Azure Dragoon. There's a whole world out there separated from vengeance.
Doesn't Estinien even say as much when we see the cutscene of him boarding a ship for Tural? He says something like "I've journeyed to the East, but never to the far West." Unless the Scions call on him to stop a world ending threat again, the man is born to roam.
Yoship: hmm this is missing something Devs: what exactly? *yoship looking at his smokes and looks up old marlboro commercial* Yoship we need some ruggedness *Estinien hops in* Estinien: you called? Yoship: perfect! 🥰
I always thought that what you said was completely straight forward and assumed by the players at this point…I’m not sure what there is that people don’t understand. He’s a wandering adventurer now helping people and traveling where the wind takes him. Like what more do you need. How do people not get that?
It's actually kind of interesting- all the folks from the areas they pull the DT stuff from are loving it. But back in Stormblood there's so many ridiculously well-researched deep cuts in Othard and Doma that get overlooked because Japan. A while back I did a walkthrough of Kugane with a friend whose PhD is in Japanese History, and she had SO many historical gems to share.
For some reason, this comment reminds me of the upcoming Assassin's Creed game, which is reportedly full of research FAILURES (the black samurai being only the tip of the iceberg), the latest of which being a Hiroshima memorial being put in the game's rendition of medieval Japan... It's interesting to compare and contrast works where the devs actually care about the content and works where the devs just throw shit in with zero understanding of the culture they're pulling from.
Honestly DT missed out on two chances to represent my home country that I would have been very happy with... That being said, just even getting nearby representation so well done was enough to make me love the first half. It was nostalgia x 1000.
I love that I did a double take at Garrett’s mention of whores in the saloon because I did not remember that at all, and now I’m cackling because Kyle confirmed it was likely just stream viewers acting as set dressing for them 😂😂😂
Fun note about combat Erenville, that I didn't see anyone else mention yet: Once he takes over from Wuk, if you pay attention you'll notice he misses every single shot. That boy is bad at combat. My hope is that he somehow gets looped into the beastmaster quests when those come out, and we get to fight with pets together. That seems right up his alley.
given how often he is shown as a seemingly endless font of knowledge about creatures it seemed very obvious to me as the expansion progressed that he is meant to be our iconic Beastmaster character when the job is released
14:49: I appreciate the editor's note, but please Kyle, beat that shmuck at Triple Triad. It's what Minfilia would have wanted. EDIT: Just finished the video, great work chaps! It's a great format, too.
As someone who has a friend working in Hollywood as an editor, the film ratings industry *IS* that granular. He's had to take out a second here or there to get a certain rating. He's had to remove frames because you can have X seconds of this violent thing, but any more lingering on that will affect the rating. He's also had to help add ADR to explain things to be less violent then they were filmed because it'd impact their rating.
There's a really meta joke in the movie "Be Cool". The main character, Chili Palmer, was leaving the film industry after joining it in the film "Get Shorty", because of the stringent ratings system. Chili mentions that in a PG-13 film, you are allowed only one F-bomb. Any more, and it's rated R. What does he say to that? "F--- that." "Get Shorty" was rated R, and "Be Cool" was rated PG-13, and that was the only F-bomb in the film.
I will say, in regards to 'Grandma Erenville'... you wouldn't notice. Not only are Viera notoriously long-lived (200+ years), they basically stop physically aging at adulthood. Recall the dialog in Rak'tika, at the Viis village where there's discussion of how old the sisters are. So even an elderly Viera will still just look like a MILF.
I do think that some of the "grit" missing from the Americas inspired Tural is a very conscious and considered choice. This is a take on these lands and cultures if they WEREN'T violently colonized by an outside force. We still have the giants and their conqueror culture that faded to the disease of the northern continent, but this is the invaders getting ravaged by disease, not the locals that were already being subjugated, so the dynamic is different. Violent means lead to violent ends, so you're better off respecting your neighbour - that's the Dawnservant's wisdom that united the continent. That is also why the story unfolds differently here, why us and Scions are taking a hard back seat for all the problems and help only after being explicitly asked. It would've been all too easy to just jump in and start world policing everyone because "we know better", but, well... that's Crystal Braves 2.0 and it's also what the Ascians did - pushing and prodding civilizations towards their ends, rather than letting everyone figure things out on their own. After the thematic conclusion of Endwalker and how wrong it is to try and box in and manipulate life and people, Dawntrail simply follows that theme of people's rights to self-determination.
Yeah, the lack of colonization is more obvious to Grinding Gear (and other NA players) in the North American inspired zones because they/we are North American, but the Central/South American inspired zones are also locations premised on the concept that they haven’t suffered colonization either.
Awesome video, I can always count on the two of you to be able to sit down in a room and have some FUN talking about video games whether it be good or bad, it's good energy and why I keep coming back to y'all's streams and videos. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I'm not "consuming" FFXIV heavily at the moment (even though I really want to!) is because the DT discourse is almost nothing but the same tepid takes regurgitated over and over, nothing but dogpiling the exact same whining and bitterness and drama farming and it's MISERABLE. I don't even click on most vids that get recommended cause I already know what they're gonna say, but the kind of discussions you guys have are a breath of fresh air and I appreciate your integrity in putting out vids you can be proud of even though it's not super lucrative at the moment. Will definitely keep watching future videos for this reason.
Not really yoship is going to say he likes any character that the community likes he has indicated several times that he's not deeply involved in the story.
@@lushen952 Im referring to a comment he made at london fanfest at the start of this year where he said, " When developing 6.0, among all the new characters, the one who interested me the most was Erenville. I thought we could delve even deeper into Erenville's story and background, so I decided to do so in 7.0's Dawntrail."
@reilie9115 yea I mean he says that but he's not writing the story he just says stuff like that in interviews. It's normal for any project lead as they sorta personify the project.
35:39 I think the reason that "getting everyone together" at that point feels so much less meaningful than similar scenes in previous expansions, is that in previous expansions we were bringing together people who had often been at odds with each other before. Bringing together the denizens of a few different zones that were all already part of a single almost universally harmonious nation, under one ruler, kind of.. lacks that? These people were already together before we even got there - so there is little about them working together in this scene that feels like it is something we earned somehow?
Hot take, but most of the scions didn't need to show up in 7.0. The bromance and Krile were enough to carry the MSQ and their presence would be bolstered without so many underutilized returners (Wuk could have some veteran soldiers in her group for the dungeons). Scions like Y'shtola and G'raha could be brought in to study the golden city in the patches. Loved the video, can't wait for the shoes to drop in the upcoming MSQ streams.
they either needed to go all in on the scions or cut them entirely. (except for krile anyway.) having them be there, but barely do anything, was the worst of both worlds.
I love they way they're using Estinien in this expansion. It's perfectly in character. He doesn't know what he wants to do with himself right now, so he's travelling while he figures it out. He has offers of work from Aymeric and Vrtra, and he's always on call as a Scion, but his whole life and purpose has fallen apart since he met us, and he's trying to find himself and his new purpose. He just happens to be in the same area as us, so we bump into him. Also, as far as the robots are concerned, I think we do have to accept that they're made of a kind of stone, because our friends know about metal and robots and would recognise if that's what they were seeing here. That, or something similar to stone, but definitely not metal.
One thing that irk me this expansion is the way the story handle the echo. As a narrative tool, the echo is a way fors us to gain knowledge of event we couldn't possibly know about, like in ARR when the Waking Sand get attacked and you get an echo of that attack. But in Dawntrail they keep using it to just illustrate what a character is currently saying to you...
Minor quibble with the MSQ, (brought to mind by the 'missing scene' conversation about rubber bullets): Gulool Ja Ja's kingdom spans two continents, and the northern continent wasn’t included At All in the monuments or as part of the Rite of Succession. I feel like you could’ve had that, (such as your missing scene), and just started the rite with the understanding that it was focused on Yak Tural for ease of access or some other reason.
It's kinda weird. I feel like it'd make more sense if Xak Tural just wasn't part of the kingdom at all. I know the rite of succession ain't exactly a democratic vote, but it feels weird to leave Xak Tural be completely left out of the rite.
Im still surprised no one talks about how similar those robots look to the people from the second world we went to in Meteions dungeon. That was the thing that confused and annoyed me the most when they got first introduced.
i don't mind that WE didn't intervene, but i do believe that Alisaie 100% should've at least tried to. that girl threw herself at the antagonist du jour every expansion she was in and she just stood there looking like she remembered she left her stove on.
FWIW, Brontosaurus is real. Bronto and Brachio are definitely different species, BUT there is a question of whether Brontosaurus and Apatosaurus are different or the same.
I think you guys nailed it on describing the issues with Shaaloani and they extend to my issues with the "first half" of Dawntrail. It feels (inconsistently) sanitised, but to add I also think is repeating some ideas and concepts done better in previous expansions. (There is a theory out there I think I agree with that leans into this, but it's spoiler-y.) In terms of theme I feel like the Azim Steppe explored the idea of learning to respect a different culture much better, for example. I think Gosetsu had a really strong arc about it. But at the same time, I still had a good time. The zones and world themselves are wonderful and I got a refreshing sense of adventure with some really cute details (Wuk Evu, the little touch of the trading pop-up for the Pelupelu, The Pointer Erenville used, the WoL just screwing with the guy in Shaaloani) out of this story next to some of the awkward elements. Every time I finished an area, I came away thinking it was cute, rather than being frustrated. So much of it was dangling the mysteries so I think they can absolutely really pay attention to what ShB did and make the journey to the answers much less stilted and more substantial/eventful. But I'm of the camp that disagrees with the more extreme takes, negative and positive, I suppose. It's imperfect, but in fairly innocuous ways. I also agree on Gulool Ja Ja's death being stronger writing than many claim. The WoL was caught off guard, it fit with Gulool Ja Ja's character and a later scene with Wuk Lamat framed it as a mistake to not interfere. As the end of the video said, I also think Wuk Lamat isn't that bad, but is probably getting written out (so those who hate her can be happy), which is a shame because I think we have something here to lean into further now. I'd rather have an Alphinaud case of taking what we have and building on it rather than a Lyse case of just writing her out. But I've said it in many discussions now that resetting the stakes was a really good decision and I hope they don't give in to the instant gratification crowd and the mentor element is actually a really smart way to deal with it because the WoL's "passivity" is mostly just letting Wuk and others fighting their fight and learning their lesson. We're the one fostering the growth and I hope we lean into it stronger. It's another refreshing shift to me. I think they can refine the journey (you can be meaningful/substantial with lower stakes) they have and once again slowly build to an enemy with a bunch of gravitas and history (and those bigger stakes people want so much). (Apologies for any repeat comments, issues with submitting.)
the more i think about it, and mind you i'm currently at the same point in the MSQ as Garrett and Kyle, the more I feel like the devs wanted to make it seem like everything is relatively hunky-dory for the first half of the expansion, so that when shit hits the fan, it catches people off guard
The train came back because it was already fully outside the bubble when it went up. If you recall, the bubble was preceded by a large earthquake, and the conductor pulled it to a stop in the middle of the tracks for safety purposes, on her return trip, right when it went up.
20:07 Because 1 is purely fantasy and the other is seen as a reflection of real life. As a South American, we get the most terrible portrayals in almost all western content. So much so that a lot of people don’t even know what South America looks like. For a ton of Americans anything outside the US, Europe and select Asian countries is some sort of terrifying wild landscape. DT tried to flip the script on that which is why people from those countries often depicted as hellholes (like my home country) are so happy with it. The problem is, they couldn’t do that to South America and present North America as drunken beasts shooting each other dead over nothing. Seriously, can you imagine the crowd rabid with Wuk’s VA being presented with that disparity? It would have been meltdowns over meltdowns. Fortunately after Australia/Merycidia we should be on the clear and back to pure fantasy where offensive portrayals of characters aren’t extrapolated to whole groups. I also have a grander theory of what DT is trying to do here for the WOL but we cannot discuss that until you finish the launch MSQ.
I kinda agree with the duelling bit - there are only 2 "turn and shoot" style duels that are confirmed to have happened in the old west. It really wasn't a thing and only got popular through fiction, so I have to wonder if the devs maybe got cold feet about it late into production and wanted a more respectful and accurate portrayal but couldn't change too much and just ended up making a mess. They might not have realized that North Americans generally REALLY like how the late 1800s are depicted in fiction even though it's a bit barbaric and absurd.
@@ngwooI think they intentionally went for wild west tropes. Like, the tumbleweed was absolutely necessary, can't have the duel before the tumbleweed rolls through
As I understand it, people who play with controllers are at a huge disadvantage when playing Air Force One (the rail shooter GATE). As such, I can see why the devs didn't want to include a rail shooter segment even as just a single player scenario because then they're locking out a significant segment of the player base. Even if the rail shooter was skippable, controller using players being forced to skip content because they can't do it is going to make them unhappy. That being said, I'm great at Air Force One, so I really wish the devs had included a rail shooter segment before the Vanguard dungeon.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941as someone who plays on controller, yeah Air Force One kinda sucks. The controls are simultaneously too fast and too slow. Even if the controls were similar to mouse and keyboard, I'd still prefer the cutscene we got. Assuming they'd keep most of it and just cut it in half for an on-rails section, I think it would ruin the pacing of the scene. Wouldn't be the first time the MSQ did that, but I'm kinda glad they chose not to in this case.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941As if the game isn’t already extremely lenient or scripted to let you win when it comes to some fights. Or hey you can just fail and drop the difficulty like all the other synced fights.
The wait was worth it! Another great video guys! I enjoyed hearing your takes on things and your cooking for the upcoming story. Can't wait to see your reaction to the rest of it.
Vanguard is probably my favorite dungeon. I love that the bosses are brutally hard... until you figure out the mechanics. Then it becomes very easy. Also, on the last boss, with his sword attacks. I love that not only is his tail a tell for which way the blast is coming, but it's also in the name (Foreguard for frontal attack, Rearguard for rear attack) for healers (like me) who are paying attention to party and enemy names rather than having to also be looking at the boss for tells.
Probably the best designed dungeon in the game right now. The theme is awesome, the music is great, and the bosses are a real teaching puzzle that can be figured out and you feel great for doing so.
vanguard is great- the problem for me is, my enjoyment of the MSQtook a massive nose dive immediately after walking out of that dungeon and never recovered.
Loved the opening, That song, while not bad, felt rather out of place knowing that we're gonna go crash a train and start a war of sorts. It was weird.
Really like your return to these types of videos. I don't think viewership is taking a hit because of the format. I think it's purely a timing thing and a (slight) disillusionment of the story so far with most people. I'm sure if DT was 1-2 years into its cycle and you made these exact same videos there would be a lot more traction. Keep up the good work!
I remember when I was playing through on launch I got to the point were the city was in ruins and saw an FC member unknowingly dancing on a pile of ashes because they wanted to level crafting before starting and couldn't see it
The community was so good during the stream that they managed to fool Kyle into thinking the devs actually had "ladies of the night" hanging out in the western pub.
I mean, why not xD There are exotic dancers in other cities. I think there might even be courtesans somewhere in the game? It's brought up in the story with Yotsuyu at least.
There's a very probably good reason for Rubber bullets. If Dueling isn't allowed in town, it's due to the possible damage. If both sides have rubber bullets, even if one person got blasted and his hand arcs to the side and shoots a bystander, it is less likely to kill those bystanders. Damages will still happen, but unless that bullet hits a critical area, you'll live. Our guns are fully different. You know that Jobstone? It's not used to teach us, it's used to help the Aetherial Converter make us aetherbullets. In the MCH questline you shoot a bunch of civilians point blank with Hotshot and it does no damage. Why does Estinien show up? He's literally walking the Earth to find meaning after letting Revenge be his life for all time. In Stormblood, he helps you with the cannon once as thanks for saving him. In the Dragoon quests in StB, he's in the Far East, travelling (It's where he learns he really likes Dried Squid). At the end of Endwalker, Estinien even says "I've been North, East, now I'll go West!" I Swear, we'll get a Cutscene at the end of his story in Dawntrail about him going off to visit Tiamat, and we'll find out we're going to Mercydia next. For Zoraal Ja, If he did or didn't regret what he did, he's also a Haughty Jerk who wants to prove he's better than his father, to prove he's better than his sister and brother who surpassed the trial he couldn't. He wants her to come to attack him. To fail upon his gates unlike he did. He wants her to fight him and die against him, failing to do what he did. He is an asshole who wants them to suffer his disgrace, so he can prove he's the best. You'll find out what that "Stone" is, but Fun Fact: We've had Metal-like Stone twice before. Garlean Magitek armors and airships are made of Cermet, which are Ceramic and Metal Composites, they're just as much Clay as they are Metal. It's why there's a joke in the real world about how the ultimate form of bullet defense will be a meter of dirt, because our tanks are currently armored in Cermet. And they got that technological idea from the Allagans. They are the reason we call them "TomeSTONES" and the PVP is over Lithographs, all of our summoning which we got from Allag is done with gems (Topaz Titan, Emerald Garuda, Ruby Ifrit). But even the "Metal" of all their buildings are Aetherochemically enhanced Cermet.
Yeah was thinking the same about the rubber bullets around ceruleum - it's shown to be a VERY volatile substance that goes beyond our real life natural gas and oil counterparts. It doesn't just burn, it explodes - and the explosions cause elementals to appear, too. Heck, we already see ceruleum bombs around the more open pools in the area. Maybe they could have said that instead of needing to infer it, but then again, some background things should remain for the player to piece together and not be explicitly spelled out.
I feel like Garrett's comment early on is so true. There are so many well polished and beautiful aspects of the MSQ, but some parts clash so jarringly that I wonder how much conversation was had between teams. The whole cutscene from train goodbye to dead dad though did it's job. I was shocked, surprised and completely caught off-guard. I feel like my WoL would be the same way. But I really noticed on the rewatch that once we arrived into town, shit got sorted quick. The Scions were on top of what to do, fought well and the enemy at that point pulled back. I wonder if that had something to do with Zoraal's thought process once we arrived on the scene.
Love this video! Love that intro. Dont love the coffee laugh spill that intro caused! Ha. Also, 22:30 fair points, but I think the rub was missed by the Grinding Gears Guys. I went looking for where you guys experienced this scene, and found Kyle clicked through the NPCs there without reacting (or reading? Not sure, it was at 4:20:30 of MSQ95 video, much like what you mention here at 34:00, blink and you miss it). Definitely valid to have varying "we should or should not have X..." as the WoL during that duel death; however Alisaie, for example, says something there like "We did everything we could, EVERYTHING... but it simply wasn't enough" regarding his death. This is demonstratively not true, as we have 10 years of proof that WoL and the gang can do things other than stand and watch (though our head nod game is on point!). So I think many people, myself included, felt this cheapened the moment/added to the 'silly writing moments' by suggesting we did something, and it was insufficient. Like the rubber bullets, it would have been better to not bring it up at all, and leave it to the "honor of duels" and "threat of fleet, so don't stop him", instead of suggesting, as Alisaie does, that some herculean effort was made by us, contrary to both 'honor' and 'fleet threat', and despite such efforts being enough to save other reflections or the universe at large previously, they came up short here, somehow, without the player seeing WoL do anything, let alone "everything". I wonder if its a translation thing. There are voiced lines that sound absurdly silly, and sounds VERY much like a translation error. Nothing further can be said here to keep things spoiler free, but its like the difference between "This is MY path!" (something we've heard many in FF14 exclaim) becoming "Mine is A path!", which sounds it could be a localization problem. I loved this report video. 14:50 is the funniest, and most true statement...'they were all player characters..." Hahahaha
Does he say "Mine is A path"? I'd always heard it as "Mine is *THE* path". Maybe I just corrected it in my head because it makes more sense that way xD
@@RockR277 The chat bubble above his head definitely says "Mine is the path!" when it happens, but I couldn't hear it and accessibility tool also spit out "a' instead of 'the'. You are right, and that might not have been the best example, but the other examples of the JP, German, and English translations were way to specific to mention (spoilers). SPOILERS FROM HERE: Faz Faz channel here on youtube has a "[insert name here] Boss Fight Trail - Final Fantasy 14 Dawntrail" video thats 12min 56sec long, and 7:26 in that video is the reference here (if you wanted to check without hunting for it). Appreciate the comment RockR!
@@ventusvero4484 Ah ok. I thought that's how it was. Well, idk if you plan on mentioning those other examples once the boys reach them, but if you do then I'll keep a lookout for your comments.
I love the advertisement today! Kyle trying to not laugh was hilarious lmao 😂 Also, yeah, that part of the MSQ seems like it was written by multiple people. The disconnection between certain events of the story was kinda crazy this expansion; one of the reasons why this expansion wasn’t a hit for me. Can’t wait to find out what you both think about from now till the end 🤭 P.S.: Please, please make it stahp! P.S.2: hope you all enjoy the meet with the gearbox ❤
I enjoyed Shaaloani because it was a break from the reptitive first half and felt like the first time we were on vacation. After doing what amounted to basically the same quest chain 5 times in a row with a couple breaks for dungeons/trial breaking the flow, it was nice to have something fresh. But yes, the rubber bullets were weird. Makes me wonder if one of their consultant geoups was worried about triggering the anti-gun crowd and went overboard. And the Native American stuff being swept under the rug really did remove a really good possible plot point from the area. My issue with letting ZJ go was kinda just a culmination of all the times we sat around as the WoL and just watched people die without even trying to do anything and would have preferred to show up last minute and been unable to prevent it. Or even just have ZJ say "If the adventurer interferes, i'll glass the town". It kinda made me feel like a WoW Champion, where I'm there, but not really there.
I've mentioned on other videos, but the fact that the Dawnservant didn't include the other half of his lands in the Rite to the point of actively barring their way was a wild choice. It reads to me that Gallool Ja Ja cared so little about the people of Zak Tural that it bordered on malice. It's probably a really good thing everyone living there was immediately on board with Wuk Lamats claim to the throne.
JoCat is actually BEHIND you guys and just finished the "dad dead" scene. You need to watch the VOD when he posts it on youtube it was a great reaction!
On the "older than expected" thought, remember that Viera are the one player race that actually does have an extended lifespan. It might not actually be noticeable unless she's like, already 300 years old or something.
About rubber bullets duel, Erenvile did mentioned the people of Shaolani must keep some semblence of peace and order otherwise, they risk the Landguard to just come there and stabilish order and the people there doesnt want to (specially because at the time, the Landguard being run by Zoraal Ja), and having people kill each with firearms everytime they get angry at each other (if you noticed, outside of Shaolani and Yak Tel, there isnt that many people being armed, they depend on the Landsguard)... Tural is a very stable and peaceful nation all things considered thanks to the Dawnservant (specially compared to Eorzea nations and real world), to the point it is considered an anomaly that bandits exist, the cowboy settings arent settlers from another land displacing the people of shaolani, they are the natives being influenced by another culture (in this case, it is Uldah's, if you played Blue Mage storyline), this is why the cowboy town arquitecture still have native american iconography
38:20 So, FF14 did a great job IMO of swapping genres for Sapphire Weapon and having us go into a gundam robot fighting mech game with combos and stuff. This would have been a perfect time for them to genre swap into a rail shooter and I think they could have done it.
1:50 For reptile's clade, both pterosaur and dinosaur fall under Archosauria which also include crocodile but pterosaur and dinosaur are closer to each other than crocodile. Pterosaur possessed different hip and arm bone structure from dinosaur in addition to wings fomed from membrane of skin and muscle. Pterodactyl specifically refers to pterosaur in genus Pterodactylus but many media use the name to refer to all pterosaur.
omg im not adopted but i have multiple friends that were and everything that ive heard and the complex feelings that come with it was nowhere near represented in DT lol i was honestly excited and then met with immediate disappointment lol its such a unique individual experience that i felt like they could have really done more with but it felt like the definition of surface level
At first I thought that the Ketenramm who's there at the duel was a fake. After all, we had seen him get cut down, and other NPCs mentioned that he disappeared. So surely they wouldn't just have him reappear all of a sudden with no explanation, right? He must be like an agent, put there by Zoraal Ja to betray us. Nope. There's no secret plot. He's just there, telling us that he got knocked out. Then why wasn't he at his house? Did Zoraal Ja knock him out and then drag him away, but instead of imprisoning him he was just left somewhere in the jungle to wake up later and come back?
Appreciated the Disney song jump scare off the top. Count me as one who has Shaaloni as my least favorite zone. I have no ties to the south western US nor Native American culture so I wasn't looking for cultural touchstones. What I got there was a really minor side story with super low stakes against enemies that were no threat to my Despair-stomping WoL. The instant I found out these were just some common bandits, I was ready to bust some heads and resolve this thing; instead, Erenville has me picking up poop for a wacky scheme. Zekowa being annoying tagalong kid who can't shut up doesn't help either. Really, the entire zone story could have been cut without affecting the major plot in any way; it's a filler episode. The zone is also huge and criss-crossing the empty desert got old very quickly. I'm glad others liked the zone because it was a slog for me.
the jump scare that first few notes of Smile gave me lol. I really don't like that they confirmed the trolley people are the train people. I can see why people would, but for me, it just felt like they thought I was kinda dumb and wouldn't make the connection on my own.
Disagree with the Wol being unable to perceive what is happening with Zarool Ja returning to life. Firstly that should have been the moment all of the Scions standing by and the Wol jump in, the honour code was broken at that point when he revived, secondly there is already in the lore and story the reason why the Wol can see mechanics to see Zarool Ja's next move to kill due to the Echo which is why back in Stormblood Fordola was able to perceive every attack coming her way thanks to her stolen Echo. Which is why Urianger gave the Wol back in Ala Mhigo that device I can't remember the name, of which stunned her overloading her aether and rendering her ability to see the Wols mechanics temporarily null which allowed our character to beat and capture her. The fix for that entire fight between Zarool Ja and Gulaal Ja Ja should have been some excuse that had the Wol fighting in the streets saving Civilians, he doesn't arrive in time to personally witness the honour duel it's already occurred, it's over, and then witness the fight through Keteram using the Wols echo. Having the Wol be there standing idly by watching, when there are already in story, in Universe reasons to still witness the event while being unable to change events is just very messy and something previous expansions handled far better.
Shaaloani is definitely the devs wanting to have their Native (North) American cake and eat their "Western" fantasy too, and I think it only works if you're willing to let some of your expectations go. Personally, I was most excited for the indigenous culture side of things and felt it got short shrift because the story centered more around the Wild West cosplay bits, but I didn't hate it for what it was. And I did appreciate that *all* the characters here are native-coded and figuring this stuff out for themselves instead of it being yet another story of native-coded characters dealing a colonial power. I feel like maybe in the initial concept for this zone, there was meant to be more exploration of the tension between a "living more traditionally" group and a "progress without regards to the effect it's having on the environment" group. But then due to how the pacing of the story went, that theme gets "resolved" as part of Koana's story before you ever get here, and it might have seemed like a retread to do it again as part of this zone's story. Or maybe originally Koana was supposed to be here and demonstrate what he'd learned by resolving that tension. I dunno, maybe it's something that'll come up in patches.
I'm in agreement with much of your thoughts. I was excited for the native culture, but was disappointed by the lack of it. I enjoyed the zone, but still. I will say, it's a lot better than just not having it at all or doing it terribly wrong, but I still feel like they could've done better
Honestly, that tracks. Koana was originally from nomadic Hetsarro tribe and he fully embraced foreign technology. Woulda made tons of sense to explore this zone with him.
That opening bit made me laugh out loud literally. Regarding the giants, I think it's also worth noting that the disease history is that the *invaders* are ones who died off to the disease, not the native population. It's the opposite of real-world history. Regarding the train bomb, that section didn't land for me super well. It seemed like a rehash of "Have all of the East liberate Doma"/"Have all of Eorzea + the East liberate Ala Mhigo"/"Have all of Novrandt build a giant Talos"/"Have all of the world get materials to retrofit a spaceship" ... but it didn't have the same payoff. For the other examples, it's a bunch of folks who historically have not worked together and/or actively distrust each other, that the WOL brings together to work toward a single goal. For the train bomb, it felt more like we're bringing together a bunch of people who are friendly or indifferent toward each other. I think if I felt like this was more of this "factions put aside their differences" the scene might have worked better, and perhaps if the montage song was more energetic (like that "building stuff" theme that they used with Konkol Dankol as he finished the Ragnarok).
FFXIV also DOES have a rail shooter minigame that might have been cool to port over to MSQ on the train. It's a Gold Saucer minigame, Air Force One. Plays like a simplified OSU.
I think the almost neutered stakes of the first part are more in an attempt to make the contrast for the invasion more extreme, but it definitely fell flat.
@@sherrij5566 I was walking around the house singing that song, it was stuck in my head after I heard Smile lol. My mom was so happy she forgot about that song XD!!!
Opening was incredible, I love the jump scare with Smile, lol. A lot of interesting thoughts! I love Heritage Found as well, for the aesthetics and discovering what exactly happened
The problem with the rubber bullets is that it’s represented as a legitimate historical method of solving even small disputes. If death was an outcome of the duel then that bit wouldn’t have worked out very well. I think they tried to do trial by combat with a western twist and this is what they came up with. In Ishgard when we fight on behalf of Tataru we don’t kill the knights we just beat them. So this is a similar take. It’s just not what people associate with the Wild West.
I think death *used* to be a possible outcome of the duels, but with the new era of peace under Big Daddy, people killing each other over grievances was heavily discouraged so the rubber bullets is a compromise.
That's true. Garrett even brings up in the video that "sword slashes have been used to knock people out before", so it's not a stretch to do the same here. I know I've shot enough quest enemies as MCH without killing them.
The bit about the rubber bullets is that I think they want duels to be non-lethal. I'm quite certain they use regular ammunition on actual threats but in the case of their gun duels, they'd load rubber rounds as to at least not kill (well unless they aim for the eyes or somesuch)
For what it's worth, FFXIV already HAS rail shooter/turret stuff with the Airforce One GATE in Gold Saucer. They could have made a duty for the train roof where you can hop in and out of the turret using that GATE's tech.
I'll admit I'm still not the happiest about the duel scene, but it's more on the side of not enjoying that sort of trope in the first place. I was certainly not pleased that we kept letting Grynewaht get away in Stormblood, nor with us nearly letting Asahi away in 4.3 before Yotsuyu got to him. Hell, even in Endwalker patch content I very much didn't enjoy the 'syke, my plan worked all along' after fighting Golbez. There's times where XIV does it better than others, but it's a longstanding issue I've had with the game. But honestly, that's what it comes down to in not wanting to wade into the discourse for Dawntrail--it feels like so much of it is done on adverse terms. I can explain that my opinion on that scene is consistent with other cases of that sort of thing elsewhere in the MSQ, but there's enough reactionaries at the same time where nobody is really given the benefit of the doubt.
I liked this part too. It wasn't s-tier story telling but things were moving and changing. The first 5 levels felt like 1 long ass arc with nothing unexpected happening (besides small things like wuks biological father). With this part ff14 felt like fantasy epic again.
If you run dungeons with the duty or trust group you’re guaranteed a piece of gear for your class every time you clear. In case anyone needs to farm a piece of gear and don’t want to spend 10 hours. its also a piece you dont have already so its easy to gather the entire set
Not really related to the video. The Escaflowne box set in your clip is so refreshing. It was an iconic anime of my childhood. Love the small shoutout to it.
Personally I tackle big words like that a syllable or two at a time before linking them together. Had to learn this for my medical diagnoses, like DeQuervain's tenosynovitis.
I just can't get over how weird it is. I think maybe it's because they're, like, regular suburban accents rather than western or native american. Doesn't fit the set dressing.
It's a mix of the sound mixing being weird and the rest of the english speakers in game speak in european accents so it feels very jarring comparatively.
Most didn't enjoy the Western zone, but I personally did since I grew up on games like Red Dead Redemption and movies like Rango. My only complaint is that they gave us a BDSM gear set instead of a cowboy gear set for those quests. My hope for a gunslinger coat is getting slimmer but I'm still holding on for that possible surprise (wouldn't be surprised if the new custom deliveries person in that zone gives us a gunslinger glam set)
“Why is Estinien in this expansion” is asked about as often as why the twins are in this expansion. They clearly had nothing for them to do, so why bother? There’s one theory that I’ve seen that feels most likely. And it’s the trailer. For a fun trailer like Dawntrail’s of course we have to have all the scions enjoying a nice vacation. But that means they’ll need to be in the story, since we don’t want to lie to players. IDK if it’s true but I believe Square Enix is dumb enough to let marketing impact the story beats.
I think CU3 got the trust system too much in their heads and think that at least 2 scions must be in every dungeon, and they must realize soon that when the trust party is not composed of any scions is a reason people want to run a trust dungeon
@@Velrikk I'm not so sure about that. We've got duty support with unnamed/guest NPCs all the way up through SB. Granted, those were added post ShB. It wasn't originally planned to include those guest NPCs. But it proves that they know duty support doesn't _need_ to be the scions. There's also ktisis hyperboreia in EW that we run in Duty Support with the ancients. Had they the mind to, they could've introduced Turali dps and healer NPCs that join us on our journey with Wuk Lamat to act as duty support NPCs. Honestly, I think it was just a snafu with the writing process. Maybe the trailer had been conceived early in the writing process before anyone really knew how much impact and presence the scions would have in the story. The original teaser trailer did come out a full year before the expac proper, and it promised all the scions would show up in Tural. So, while I admit it's conjecture on my part, the writers may have been forced to include them. Edit: Oh lmao that's literally what the originally commenter said in less words xD
I believe it. Parts of the story certainly feel rushed. I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer caught them with their pants down and forced them to inject the scions in there. Honestly though, I think it works with Estinien. Randomly bumping into him while he just does his own adventuring is a funny concept imo.
Solution: all names must be spoken by a character BEFORE we are forced to read it.
PREACH! Wait... Jesse.
Roo-gadyn
But, what's the fun in that !!!
@@Amovetv I see what you did there... 😎
@@Sageharpuia0Never will I ever 😄
"Those were all player characters" I SPAT MY FUCKING DRINK
the whores were actually the friends we made along the way
SAME
Estinien showing up randomly in Dawntrail and then wandering off immediately was the only Scion use I had zero problems with, because it at least felt *in character*. He's mentioned offhand a couple things enough times to make it clear (to me, I guess) that unless there's something he has to stay still for to help with (the end of the world, Vrtra's stuff, etc), he basically spends his time doing the same shit YOU do. He does FATEs, he does treasure maps, he travels around to see what's there. He's an adventurer, doing adventurer shit.
If you do the side quests in Hhusatahwi, you find out he's been doing the same side quests too! It's a nice little tie in to his MSQ comments there.
wouldnt be surprised if in m8s he ends up being the raid boss lmao
Why did Estinien show up? My pet theory is that he spent the first 30 years of his life dedicated to revenge, and fully expected to die in taking it. After he's saved by Alphinaud, the WoL, and some timely assistance by ghosts, he's got a second chance at life at he is gonna take FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT.
He's an adventurer now, just like the WoL, so he's gonna go where the wind takes him. Whether that's to the east at Thavnair, or to the west to go spar with the king of Tural, he has freedom he didn't have as the Azure Dragoon. There's a whole world out there separated from vengeance.
Doesn't Estinien even say as much when we see the cutscene of him boarding a ship for Tural?
He says something like "I've journeyed to the East, but never to the far West."
Unless the Scions call on him to stop a world ending threat again, the man is born to roam.
Yoship: hmm this is missing something
Devs: what exactly?
*yoship looking at his smokes and looks up old marlboro commercial*
Yoship we need some ruggedness
*Estinien hops in*
Estinien: you called?
Yoship: perfect! 🥰
I always thought that what you said was completely straight forward and assumed by the players at this point…I’m not sure what there is that people don’t understand. He’s a wandering adventurer now helping people and traveling where the wind takes him. Like what more do you need. How do people not get that?
He would have made an excellent Dread Pirate Roberts.
@@Bardic_KnowledgeMy Sky Pirate WoL agrees.
It's actually kind of interesting- all the folks from the areas they pull the DT stuff from are loving it. But back in Stormblood there's so many ridiculously well-researched deep cuts in Othard and Doma that get overlooked because Japan.
A while back I did a walkthrough of Kugane with a friend whose PhD is in Japanese History, and she had SO many historical gems to share.
For some reason, this comment reminds me of the upcoming Assassin's Creed game, which is reportedly full of research FAILURES (the black samurai being only the tip of the iceberg), the latest of which being a Hiroshima memorial being put in the game's rendition of medieval Japan...
It's interesting to compare and contrast works where the devs actually care about the content and works where the devs just throw shit in with zero understanding of the culture they're pulling from.
Honestly DT missed out on two chances to represent my home country that I would have been very happy with... That being said, just even getting nearby representation so well done was enough to make me love the first half. It was nostalgia x 1000.
I love that I did a double take at Garrett’s mention of whores in the saloon because I did not remember that at all, and now I’m cackling because Kyle confirmed it was likely just stream viewers acting as set dressing for them 😂😂😂
Fun note about combat Erenville, that I didn't see anyone else mention yet: Once he takes over from Wuk, if you pay attention you'll notice he misses every single shot.
That boy is bad at combat.
My hope is that he somehow gets looped into the beastmaster quests when those come out, and we get to fight with pets together. That seems right up his alley.
I definitely think that he'll be involved in them somehow.
given how often he is shown as a seemingly endless font of knowledge about creatures it seemed very obvious to me as the expansion progressed that he is meant to be our iconic Beastmaster character when the job is released
As long as wuk lamat is not part of it or mentioned in any form in those quests
I think Wuk Lamat is clearly set up to be in Tural as a governing force. Her story as related to the Warrior of Light is over.
14:49: I appreciate the editor's note, but please Kyle, beat that shmuck at Triple Triad. It's what Minfilia would have wanted.
EDIT: Just finished the video, great work chaps! It's a great format, too.
It set off my Triple Triad OCD as well when I saw it.
Had to come down here and see if anyone else timestamped that haha. 'The real hoors are the players we met along the way.'
@@broad_cat as soon as there was a long pause after "No ladies of the night" I was like...oh god...those were players weren't they?
Yes, please! The one extra thing I did while progging the story was playing against all the new triple triad npc’s 😅
As someone who has a friend working in Hollywood as an editor, the film ratings industry *IS* that granular. He's had to take out a second here or there to get a certain rating. He's had to remove frames because you can have X seconds of this violent thing, but any more lingering on that will affect the rating. He's also had to help add ADR to explain things to be less violent then they were filmed because it'd impact their rating.
I have heard bigger movies will get suggestions on what to cut if they want pg13 vs r, but didn’t realize it was this precise
There's a really meta joke in the movie "Be Cool". The main character, Chili Palmer, was leaving the film industry after joining it in the film "Get Shorty", because of the stringent ratings system.
Chili mentions that in a PG-13 film, you are allowed only one F-bomb. Any more, and it's rated R. What does he say to that? "F--- that."
"Get Shorty" was rated R, and "Be Cool" was rated PG-13, and that was the only F-bomb in the film.
my ff14 chat when getting to the zone, names removed
"Hey how do you say 'Shalooni' ?"
"Texas"
"Texas"
"Texas"
I will say, in regards to 'Grandma Erenville'... you wouldn't notice. Not only are Viera notoriously long-lived (200+ years), they basically stop physically aging at adulthood. Recall the dialog in Rak'tika, at the Viis village where there's discussion of how old the sisters are. So even an elderly Viera will still just look like a MILF.
38:26 We have Air Force One at the Gold Saucer!
Engagementing.
Promoting
This needed to be said so much.
these boys aint real ff14 players if they don't know all the gold saucer games
I do think that some of the "grit" missing from the Americas inspired Tural is a very conscious and considered choice. This is a take on these lands and cultures if they WEREN'T violently colonized by an outside force. We still have the giants and their conqueror culture that faded to the disease of the northern continent, but this is the invaders getting ravaged by disease, not the locals that were already being subjugated, so the dynamic is different. Violent means lead to violent ends, so you're better off respecting your neighbour - that's the Dawnservant's wisdom that united the continent.
That is also why the story unfolds differently here, why us and Scions are taking a hard back seat for all the problems and help only after being explicitly asked. It would've been all too easy to just jump in and start world policing everyone because "we know better", but, well... that's Crystal Braves 2.0 and it's also what the Ascians did - pushing and prodding civilizations towards their ends, rather than letting everyone figure things out on their own. After the thematic conclusion of Endwalker and how wrong it is to try and box in and manipulate life and people, Dawntrail simply follows that theme of people's rights to self-determination.
Yeah, the lack of colonization is more obvious to Grinding Gear (and other NA players) in the North American inspired zones because they/we are North American, but the Central/South American inspired zones are also locations premised on the concept that they haven’t suffered colonization either.
We could just present possibilities we have seen in our travels, what the locals decide is up to them.
I was under the impression that the train was already on its way back, and the bubble appeared behind it, and the train was unharmed..
That first minute felt like 10. I'm a stronger person by getting through it.
Also, the giants were "punished" with the disease for invading, not contaminated by invaders. They completly reversed the story.
Awesome video, I can always count on the two of you to be able to sit down in a room and have some FUN talking about video games whether it be good or bad, it's good energy and why I keep coming back to y'all's streams and videos.
I can only speak for myself, but the reason I'm not "consuming" FFXIV heavily at the moment (even though I really want to!) is because the DT discourse is almost nothing but the same tepid takes regurgitated over and over, nothing but dogpiling the exact same whining and bitterness and drama farming and it's MISERABLE. I don't even click on most vids that get recommended cause I already know what they're gonna say, but the kind of discussions you guys have are a breath of fresh air and I appreciate your integrity in putting out vids you can be proud of even though it's not super lucrative at the moment. Will definitely keep watching future videos for this reason.
That song really knows how to overstay it's welcome lol
Actually erenville got elevated bc *yoship* liked him and his backstory so much. Fan reception was just a bonus.
Not really yoship is going to say he likes any character that the community likes he has indicated several times that he's not deeply involved in the story.
@@lushen952 Im referring to a comment he made at london fanfest at the start of this year where he said, " When developing 6.0, among all the new characters, the one who interested me the most was Erenville. I thought we could delve even deeper into Erenville's story and background, so I decided to do so in 7.0's Dawntrail."
@reilie9115 yea I mean he says that but he's not writing the story he just says stuff like that in interviews. It's normal for any project lead as they sorta personify the project.
35:39 I think the reason that "getting everyone together" at that point feels so much less meaningful than similar scenes in previous expansions, is that in previous expansions we were bringing together people who had often been at odds with each other before. Bringing together the denizens of a few different zones that were all already part of a single almost universally harmonious nation, under one ruler, kind of.. lacks that? These people were already together before we even got there - so there is little about them working together in this scene that feels like it is something we earned somehow?
Yeah, it's like ... they're working together the way they would've regardless of us being around or not, frankly.
Hot take, but most of the scions didn't need to show up in 7.0. The bromance and Krile were enough to carry the MSQ and their presence would be bolstered without so many underutilized returners (Wuk could have some veteran soldiers in her group for the dungeons). Scions like Y'shtola and G'raha could be brought in to study the golden city in the patches. Loved the video, can't wait for the shoes to drop in the upcoming MSQ streams.
they either needed to go all in on the scions or cut them entirely. (except for krile anyway.) having them be there, but barely do anything, was the worst of both worlds.
@@Keira_Blackstonewhat did you say? Oh you want more of the same! Understood! ~the writers probably
I love they way they're using Estinien in this expansion. It's perfectly in character. He doesn't know what he wants to do with himself right now, so he's travelling while he figures it out. He has offers of work from Aymeric and Vrtra, and he's always on call as a Scion, but his whole life and purpose has fallen apart since he met us, and he's trying to find himself and his new purpose. He just happens to be in the same area as us, so we bump into him.
Also, as far as the robots are concerned, I think we do have to accept that they're made of a kind of stone, because our friends know about metal and robots and would recognise if that's what they were seeing here. That, or something similar to stone, but definitely not metal.
One thing that irk me this expansion is the way the story handle the echo. As a narrative tool, the echo is a way fors us to gain knowledge of event we couldn't possibly know about, like in ARR when the Waking Sand get attacked and you get an echo of that attack. But in Dawntrail they keep using it to just illustrate what a character is currently saying to you...
100% agree. The echo was underutilized this expansion. We used it a good amount, but when we did it felt naratively weak.
Minor quibble with the MSQ, (brought to mind by the 'missing scene' conversation about rubber bullets): Gulool Ja Ja's kingdom spans two continents, and the northern continent wasn’t included At All in the monuments or as part of the Rite of Succession. I feel like you could’ve had that, (such as your missing scene), and just started the rite with the understanding that it was focused on Yak Tural for ease of access or some other reason.
It's kinda weird. I feel like it'd make more sense if Xak Tural just wasn't part of the kingdom at all. I know the rite of succession ain't exactly a democratic vote, but it feels weird to leave Xak Tural be completely left out of the rite.
Im still surprised no one talks about how similar those robots look to the people from the second world we went to in Meteions dungeon. That was the thing that confused and annoyed me the most when they got first introduced.
22:38 Ohh boy, this will be a storm. Btw the dome apperared just when the train left. The wife said it, it wasnt just the head
i don't mind that WE didn't intervene, but i do believe that Alisaie 100% should've at least tried to. that girl threw herself at the antagonist du jour every expansion she was in and she just stood there looking like she remembered she left her stove on.
She even stops Wuk Lamat. You'd think she'd have joined in instead.
Forget Smiling, you guy had me CRYING!!
FWIW, Brontosaurus is real. Bronto and Brachio are definitely different species, BUT there is a question of whether Brontosaurus and Apatosaurus are different or the same.
Glad someone said it. Now just to get Pluto back as a planet and my 80s education will be fixed
The train arrived at the destination, dropped off it's passengers, and then turned back before the bubble arrived.
I think you guys nailed it on describing the issues with Shaaloani and they extend to my issues with the "first half" of Dawntrail.
It feels (inconsistently) sanitised, but to add I also think is repeating some ideas and concepts done better in previous expansions.
(There is a theory out there I think I agree with that leans into this, but it's spoiler-y.)
In terms of theme I feel like the Azim Steppe explored the idea of learning to respect a different culture much better, for example. I think Gosetsu had a really strong arc about it.
But at the same time, I still had a good time. The zones and world themselves are wonderful and I got a refreshing sense of adventure with some really cute details (Wuk Evu, the little touch of the trading pop-up for the Pelupelu, The Pointer Erenville used, the WoL just screwing with the guy in Shaaloani) out of this story next to some of the awkward elements.
Every time I finished an area, I came away thinking it was cute, rather than being frustrated. So much of it was dangling the mysteries so I think they can absolutely really pay attention to what ShB did and make the journey to the answers much less stilted and more substantial/eventful.
But I'm of the camp that disagrees with the more extreme takes, negative and positive, I suppose. It's imperfect, but in fairly innocuous ways.
I also agree on Gulool Ja Ja's death being stronger writing than many claim. The WoL was caught off guard, it fit with Gulool Ja Ja's character and a later scene with Wuk Lamat framed it as a mistake to not interfere.
As the end of the video said, I also think Wuk Lamat isn't that bad, but is probably getting written out (so those who hate her can be happy), which is a shame because I think we have something here to lean into further now. I'd rather have an Alphinaud case of taking what we have and building on it rather than a Lyse case of just writing her out.
But I've said it in many discussions now that resetting the stakes was a really good decision and I hope they don't give in to the instant gratification crowd and the mentor element is actually a really smart way to deal with it because the WoL's "passivity" is mostly just letting Wuk and others fighting their fight and learning their lesson.
We're the one fostering the growth and I hope we lean into it stronger. It's another refreshing shift to me.
I think they can refine the journey (you can be meaningful/substantial with lower stakes) they have and once again slowly build to an enemy with a bunch of gravitas and history (and those bigger stakes people want so much).
(Apologies for any repeat comments, issues with submitting.)
the more i think about it, and mind you i'm currently at the same point in the MSQ as Garrett and Kyle, the more I feel like the devs wanted to make it seem like everything is relatively hunky-dory for the first half of the expansion, so that when shit hits the fan, it catches people off guard
The train came back because it was already fully outside the bubble when it went up. If you recall, the bubble was preceded by a large earthquake, and the conductor pulled it to a stop in the middle of the tracks for safety purposes, on her return trip, right when it went up.
I'm less than 45 seconds in, and I am dying. Y'all are really about to make us sit with this song & I both love and hate it. 😂 ❤
20:07 Because 1 is purely fantasy and the other is seen as a reflection of real life. As a South American, we get the most terrible portrayals in almost all western content. So much so that a lot of people don’t even know what South America looks like. For a ton of Americans anything outside the US, Europe and select Asian countries is some sort of terrifying wild landscape.
DT tried to flip the script on that which is why people from those countries often depicted as hellholes (like my home country) are so happy with it. The problem is, they couldn’t do that to South America and present North America as drunken beasts shooting each other dead over nothing. Seriously, can you imagine the crowd rabid with Wuk’s VA being presented with that disparity? It would have been meltdowns over meltdowns.
Fortunately after Australia/Merycidia we should be on the clear and back to pure fantasy where offensive portrayals of characters aren’t extrapolated to whole groups.
I also have a grander theory of what DT is trying to do here for the WOL but we cannot discuss that until you finish the launch MSQ.
I kinda agree with the duelling bit - there are only 2 "turn and shoot" style duels that are confirmed to have happened in the old west. It really wasn't a thing and only got popular through fiction, so I have to wonder if the devs maybe got cold feet about it late into production and wanted a more respectful and accurate portrayal but couldn't change too much and just ended up making a mess. They might not have realized that North Americans generally REALLY like how the late 1800s are depicted in fiction even though it's a bit barbaric and absurd.
@@ngwooI think they intentionally went for wild west tropes. Like, the tumbleweed was absolutely necessary, can't have the duel before the tumbleweed rolls through
every american i know loved the west zone and wished they leaned even more into the old west stereotype oO
@@psymarrubber bullets was the other one /s
The pan to Tuna and his shades at 9:10 were the absolute peak representation of "Oh, this wasn't the vacation episode after all."
38:16 counter point Kyle. The GATE in Golden saucer exists. It could work in theory.
As I understand it, people who play with controllers are at a huge disadvantage when playing Air Force One (the rail shooter GATE). As such, I can see why the devs didn't want to include a rail shooter segment even as just a single player scenario because then they're locking out a significant segment of the player base.
Even if the rail shooter was skippable, controller using players being forced to skip content because they can't do it is going to make them unhappy.
That being said, I'm great at Air Force One, so I really wish the devs had included a rail shooter segment before the Vanguard dungeon.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941as someone who plays on controller, yeah Air Force One kinda sucks. The controls are simultaneously too fast and too slow.
Even if the controls were similar to mouse and keyboard, I'd still prefer the cutscene we got. Assuming they'd keep most of it and just cut it in half for an on-rails section, I think it would ruin the pacing of the scene. Wouldn't be the first time the MSQ did that, but I'm kinda glad they chose not to in this case.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941 what?' it plays fine on controller lol
@@noppornwongrassamee8941As if the game isn’t already extremely lenient or scripted to let you win when it comes to some fights. Or hey you can just fail and drop the difficulty like all the other synced fights.
@@noppornwongrassamee8941 I've never had an issue with it on controller. That's just my experience, idk how it is for others.
I love Shaoloni❤️❤️❤️
Then again I love Catboys & apparently Catboy Cowboys 😸😸😸
Also, love Tuna's scruff & hair💜💜💜
The wait was worth it! Another great video guys! I enjoyed hearing your takes on things and your cooking for the upcoming story. Can't wait to see your reaction to the rest of it.
Vanguard is probably my favorite dungeon. I love that the bosses are brutally hard... until you figure out the mechanics. Then it becomes very easy. Also, on the last boss, with his sword attacks. I love that not only is his tail a tell for which way the blast is coming, but it's also in the name (Foreguard for frontal attack, Rearguard for rear attack) for healers (like me) who are paying attention to party and enemy names rather than having to also be looking at the boss for tells.
Probably the best designed dungeon in the game right now. The theme is awesome, the music is great, and the bosses are a real teaching puzzle that can be figured out and you feel great for doing so.
vanguard is great- the problem for me is, my enjoyment of the MSQtook a massive nose dive immediately after walking out of that dungeon and never recovered.
I SEE ESCAFLOWNE MERCH I UPVOTE
Loved the opening, That song, while not bad, felt rather out of place knowing that we're gonna go crash a train and start a war of sorts. It was weird.
Really like your return to these types of videos.
I don't think viewership is taking a hit because of the format. I think it's purely a timing thing and a (slight) disillusionment of the story so far with most people.
I'm sure if DT was 1-2 years into its cycle and you made these exact same videos there would be a lot more traction. Keep up the good work!
I remember when I was playing through on launch I got to the point were the city was in ruins and saw an FC member unknowingly dancing on a pile of ashes because they wanted to level crafting before starting and couldn't see it
I feel bad for laughing, but this is hilarious 😂
it was kinda funny to me to be walking through the ruined city watching all the people doing there crafting in the middle of street everywhere.
just the music in the texas zone made me really like it, regardless of the msq inside it, immaculate vibes
The community was so good during the stream that they managed to fool Kyle into thinking the devs actually had "ladies of the night" hanging out in the western pub.
I mean, why not xD There are exotic dancers in other cities. I think there might even be courtesans somewhere in the game? It's brought up in the story with Yotsuyu at least.
I think I had the most fun in Shaaloani in terms of zones. I really liked it.
It's my favorite so far. -G
There's a very probably good reason for Rubber bullets. If Dueling isn't allowed in town, it's due to the possible damage. If both sides have rubber bullets, even if one person got blasted and his hand arcs to the side and shoots a bystander, it is less likely to kill those bystanders. Damages will still happen, but unless that bullet hits a critical area, you'll live. Our guns are fully different. You know that Jobstone? It's not used to teach us, it's used to help the Aetherial Converter make us aetherbullets. In the MCH questline you shoot a bunch of civilians point blank with Hotshot and it does no damage.
Why does Estinien show up? He's literally walking the Earth to find meaning after letting Revenge be his life for all time. In Stormblood, he helps you with the cannon once as thanks for saving him. In the Dragoon quests in StB, he's in the Far East, travelling (It's where he learns he really likes Dried Squid). At the end of Endwalker, Estinien even says "I've been North, East, now I'll go West!" I Swear, we'll get a Cutscene at the end of his story in Dawntrail about him going off to visit Tiamat, and we'll find out we're going to Mercydia next.
For Zoraal Ja, If he did or didn't regret what he did, he's also a Haughty Jerk who wants to prove he's better than his father, to prove he's better than his sister and brother who surpassed the trial he couldn't. He wants her to come to attack him. To fail upon his gates unlike he did. He wants her to fight him and die against him, failing to do what he did. He is an asshole who wants them to suffer his disgrace, so he can prove he's the best.
You'll find out what that "Stone" is, but Fun Fact: We've had Metal-like Stone twice before. Garlean Magitek armors and airships are made of Cermet, which are Ceramic and Metal Composites, they're just as much Clay as they are Metal. It's why there's a joke in the real world about how the ultimate form of bullet defense will be a meter of dirt, because our tanks are currently armored in Cermet. And they got that technological idea from the Allagans. They are the reason we call them "TomeSTONES" and the PVP is over Lithographs, all of our summoning which we got from Allag is done with gems (Topaz Titan, Emerald Garuda, Ruby Ifrit). But even the "Metal" of all their buildings are Aetherochemically enhanced Cermet.
Yeah was thinking the same about the rubber bullets around ceruleum - it's shown to be a VERY volatile substance that goes beyond our real life natural gas and oil counterparts. It doesn't just burn, it explodes - and the explosions cause elementals to appear, too. Heck, we already see ceruleum bombs around the more open pools in the area.
Maybe they could have said that instead of needing to infer it, but then again, some background things should remain for the player to piece together and not be explicitly spelled out.
I feel like Garrett's comment early on is so true. There are so many well polished and beautiful aspects of the MSQ, but some parts clash so jarringly that I wonder how much conversation was had between teams.
The whole cutscene from train goodbye to dead dad though did it's job. I was shocked, surprised and completely caught off-guard. I feel like my WoL would be the same way. But I really noticed on the rewatch that once we arrived into town, shit got sorted quick. The Scions were on top of what to do, fought well and the enemy at that point pulled back. I wonder if that had something to do with Zoraal's thought process once we arrived on the scene.
Love this video! Love that intro. Dont love the coffee laugh spill that intro caused! Ha. Also, 22:30 fair points, but I think the rub was missed by the Grinding Gears Guys. I went looking for where you guys experienced this scene, and found Kyle clicked through the NPCs there without reacting (or reading? Not sure, it was at 4:20:30 of MSQ95 video, much like what you mention here at 34:00, blink and you miss it). Definitely valid to have varying "we should or should not have X..." as the WoL during that duel death; however Alisaie, for example, says something there like "We did everything we could, EVERYTHING... but it simply wasn't enough" regarding his death. This is demonstratively not true, as we have 10 years of proof that WoL and the gang can do things other than stand and watch (though our head nod game is on point!). So I think many people, myself included, felt this cheapened the moment/added to the 'silly writing moments' by suggesting we did something, and it was insufficient. Like the rubber bullets, it would have been better to not bring it up at all, and leave it to the "honor of duels" and "threat of fleet, so don't stop him", instead of suggesting, as Alisaie does, that some herculean effort was made by us, contrary to both 'honor' and 'fleet threat', and despite such efforts being enough to save other reflections or the universe at large previously, they came up short here, somehow, without the player seeing WoL do anything, let alone "everything". I wonder if its a translation thing. There are voiced lines that sound absurdly silly, and sounds VERY much like a translation error. Nothing further can be said here to keep things spoiler free, but its like the difference between "This is MY path!" (something we've heard many in FF14 exclaim) becoming "Mine is A path!", which sounds it could be a localization problem. I loved this report video. 14:50 is the funniest, and most true statement...'they were all player characters..." Hahahaha
I interpreted Alisaie as talking about the healers having done everything they could, not the rest of us.
Does he say "Mine is A path"? I'd always heard it as "Mine is *THE* path". Maybe I just corrected it in my head because it makes more sense that way xD
@@RockR277 The chat bubble above his head definitely says "Mine is the path!" when it happens, but I couldn't hear it and accessibility tool also spit out "a' instead of 'the'. You are right, and that might not have been the best example, but the other examples of the JP, German, and English translations were way to specific to mention (spoilers). SPOILERS FROM HERE: Faz Faz channel here on youtube has a "[insert name here] Boss Fight Trail - Final Fantasy 14 Dawntrail" video thats 12min 56sec long, and 7:26 in that video is the reference here (if you wanted to check without hunting for it). Appreciate the comment RockR!
@@ventusvero4484 Ah ok. I thought that's how it was. Well, idk if you plan on mentioning those other examples once the boys reach them, but if you do then I'll keep a lookout for your comments.
Such a breath of fresh air on the msq discussion. Great vid, glad you two are having fun despite the hecklers.
I love the advertisement today! Kyle trying to not laugh was hilarious lmao 😂
Also, yeah, that part of the MSQ seems like it was written by multiple people. The disconnection between certain events of the story was kinda crazy this expansion; one of the reasons why this expansion wasn’t a hit for me. Can’t wait to find out what you both think about from now till the end 🤭
P.S.: Please, please make it stahp!
P.S.2: hope you all enjoy the meet with the gearbox ❤
Fun discussion! Can't wait for the next MSQ streams, it's my favorite part of Dawntrail, lots of cool lore.
I enjoyed Shaaloani because it was a break from the reptitive first half and felt like the first time we were on vacation. After doing what amounted to basically the same quest chain 5 times in a row with a couple breaks for dungeons/trial breaking the flow, it was nice to have something fresh.
But yes, the rubber bullets were weird. Makes me wonder if one of their consultant geoups was worried about triggering the anti-gun crowd and went overboard.
And the Native American stuff being swept under the rug really did remove a really good possible plot point from the area.
My issue with letting ZJ go was kinda just a culmination of all the times we sat around as the WoL and just watched people die without even trying to do anything and would have preferred to show up last minute and been unable to prevent it. Or even just have ZJ say "If the adventurer interferes, i'll glass the town". It kinda made me feel like a WoW Champion, where I'm there, but not really there.
I've mentioned on other videos, but the fact that the Dawnservant didn't include the other half of his lands in the Rite to the point of actively barring their way was a wild choice. It reads to me that Gallool Ja Ja cared so little about the people of Zak Tural that it bordered on malice. It's probably a really good thing everyone living there was immediately on board with Wuk Lamats claim to the throne.
JoCat is actually BEHIND you guys and just finished the "dad dead" scene. You need to watch the VOD when he posts it on youtube it was a great reaction!
On the "older than expected" thought, remember that Viera are the one player race that actually does have an extended lifespan. It might not actually be noticeable unless she's like, already 300 years old or something.
Brontosaurus is real again! They changed their mind.
Wait what???
@@ArakDBlade in 2015 they realized Brontosaurus and Apatosaurus are sufficiently different so Brontosaurus is once again an official genus name.
I challenge! Make dinosaurs fake again! Make dragons real though
I want a dragon buddy 😢
@@kiriuxeosa8716 Komodo?
About rubber bullets duel, Erenvile did mentioned the people of Shaolani must keep some semblence of peace and order otherwise, they risk the Landguard to just come there and stabilish order and the people there doesnt want to (specially because at the time, the Landguard being run by Zoraal Ja), and having people kill each with firearms everytime they get angry at each other (if you noticed, outside of Shaolani and Yak Tel, there isnt that many people being armed, they depend on the Landsguard)...
Tural is a very stable and peaceful nation all things considered thanks to the Dawnservant (specially compared to Eorzea nations and real world), to the point it is considered an anomaly that bandits exist, the cowboy settings arent settlers from another land displacing the people of shaolani, they are the natives being influenced by another culture (in this case, it is Uldah's, if you played Blue Mage storyline), this is why the cowboy town arquitecture still have native american iconography
38:20 So, FF14 did a great job IMO of swapping genres for Sapphire Weapon and having us go into a gundam robot fighting mech game with combos and stuff. This would have been a perfect time for them to genre swap into a rail shooter and I think they could have done it.
I think you guys articulate the weirdness that is dawntrail's story telling very well.
1:50 For reptile's clade, both pterosaur and dinosaur fall under Archosauria which also include crocodile but pterosaur and dinosaur are closer to each other than crocodile. Pterosaur possessed different hip and arm bone structure from dinosaur in addition to wings fomed from membrane of skin and muscle. Pterodactyl specifically refers to pterosaur in genus Pterodactylus but many media use the name to refer to all pterosaur.
15:05 Garrett I love your boots! The shiny eyelets pop so good!
*hiking up one pant leg to show off the boot
Why thank you!
omg im not adopted but i have multiple friends that were and everything that ive heard and the complex feelings that come with it was nowhere near represented in DT lol i was honestly excited and then met with immediate disappointment lol its such a unique individual experience that i felt like they could have really done more with but it felt like the definition of surface level
At first I thought that the Ketenramm who's there at the duel was a fake. After all, we had seen him get cut down, and other NPCs mentioned that he disappeared. So surely they wouldn't just have him reappear all of a sudden with no explanation, right? He must be like an agent, put there by Zoraal Ja to betray us.
Nope. There's no secret plot. He's just there, telling us that he got knocked out. Then why wasn't he at his house? Did Zoraal Ja knock him out and then drag him away, but instead of imprisoning him he was just left somewhere in the jungle to wake up later and come back?
I was so confused I thought you had made a 2nd video today and was excited for double uploads
Appreciated the Disney song jump scare off the top. Count me as one who has Shaaloni as my least favorite zone. I have no ties to the south western US nor Native American culture so I wasn't looking for cultural touchstones. What I got there was a really minor side story with super low stakes against enemies that were no threat to my Despair-stomping WoL. The instant I found out these were just some common bandits, I was ready to bust some heads and resolve this thing; instead, Erenville has me picking up poop for a wacky scheme. Zekowa being annoying tagalong kid who can't shut up doesn't help either. Really, the entire zone story could have been cut without affecting the major plot in any way; it's a filler episode. The zone is also huge and criss-crossing the empty desert got old very quickly. I'm glad others liked the zone because it was a slog for me.
the jump scare that first few notes of Smile gave me lol.
I really don't like that they confirmed the trolley people are the train people. I can see why people would, but for me, it just felt like they thought I was kinda dumb and wouldn't make the connection on my own.
yeah. I instantly noticed they were reminiscent of the trolley people. calling it out so hard felt like putting a hat on a hat.
Disagree with the Wol being unable to perceive what is happening with Zarool Ja returning to life. Firstly that should have been the moment all of the Scions standing by and the Wol jump in, the honour code was broken at that point when he revived, secondly there is already in the lore and story the reason why the Wol can see mechanics to see Zarool Ja's next move to kill due to the Echo which is why back in Stormblood Fordola was able to perceive every attack coming her way thanks to her stolen Echo. Which is why Urianger gave the Wol back in Ala Mhigo that device I can't remember the name, of which stunned her overloading her aether and rendering her ability to see the Wols mechanics temporarily null which allowed our character to beat and capture her. The fix for that entire fight between Zarool Ja and Gulaal Ja Ja should have been some excuse that had the Wol fighting in the streets saving Civilians, he doesn't arrive in time to personally witness the honour duel it's already occurred, it's over, and then witness the fight through Keteram using the Wols echo. Having the Wol be there standing idly by watching, when there are already in story, in Universe reasons to still witness the event while being unable to change events is just very messy and something previous expansions handled far better.
Shaaloani is definitely the devs wanting to have their Native (North) American cake and eat their "Western" fantasy too, and I think it only works if you're willing to let some of your expectations go. Personally, I was most excited for the indigenous culture side of things and felt it got short shrift because the story centered more around the Wild West cosplay bits, but I didn't hate it for what it was. And I did appreciate that *all* the characters here are native-coded and figuring this stuff out for themselves instead of it being yet another story of native-coded characters dealing a colonial power.
I feel like maybe in the initial concept for this zone, there was meant to be more exploration of the tension between a "living more traditionally" group and a "progress without regards to the effect it's having on the environment" group. But then due to how the pacing of the story went, that theme gets "resolved" as part of Koana's story before you ever get here, and it might have seemed like a retread to do it again as part of this zone's story. Or maybe originally Koana was supposed to be here and demonstrate what he'd learned by resolving that tension. I dunno, maybe it's something that'll come up in patches.
I'm in agreement with much of your thoughts. I was excited for the native culture, but was disappointed by the lack of it. I enjoyed the zone, but still. I will say, it's a lot better than just not having it at all or doing it terribly wrong, but I still feel like they could've done better
Honestly, that tracks. Koana was originally from nomadic Hetsarro tribe and he fully embraced foreign technology. Woulda made tons of sense to explore this zone with him.
That opening bit made me laugh out loud literally.
Regarding the giants, I think it's also worth noting that the disease history is that the *invaders* are ones who died off to the disease, not the native population. It's the opposite of real-world history.
Regarding the train bomb, that section didn't land for me super well. It seemed like a rehash of "Have all of the East liberate Doma"/"Have all of Eorzea + the East liberate Ala Mhigo"/"Have all of Novrandt build a giant Talos"/"Have all of the world get materials to retrofit a spaceship" ... but it didn't have the same payoff. For the other examples, it's a bunch of folks who historically have not worked together and/or actively distrust each other, that the WOL brings together to work toward a single goal. For the train bomb, it felt more like we're bringing together a bunch of people who are friendly or indifferent toward each other. I think if I felt like this was more of this "factions put aside their differences" the scene might have worked better, and perhaps if the montage song was more energetic (like that "building stuff" theme that they used with Konkol Dankol as he finished the Ragnarok).
in their defense Machinests use aether as bullets so basically a storm trooper gun
Unhinged is such a great way of putting this 😂😂 this is hilarious
FFXIV also DOES have a rail shooter minigame that might have been cool to port over to MSQ on the train. It's a Gold Saucer minigame, Air Force One. Plays like a simplified OSU.
It baffles me why they let go to waste the resources they already have
Music to make bombs too!
On a side note a wild west area with dinos, oil, large expanses of vsried wilderness, AND TRAINS????
I loved this zone.
On a side note, The poor kid who lost his mom =(
I think the almost neutered stakes of the first part are more in an attempt to make the contrast for the invasion more extreme, but it definitely fell flat.
lol amazing opening
I keep hearing "Was the son of a preacher man!" during smile lol. 🤣🤣🤣
Now I can’t unhear this!!
@@sherrij5566 I was walking around the house singing that song, it was stuck in my head after I heard Smile lol. My mom was so happy she forgot about that song XD!!!
@@XenosFFBE lol since reading this comment the song is living in my brain now. 😂😂
Opening was incredible, I love the jump scare with Smile, lol. A lot of interesting thoughts! I love Heritage Found as well, for the aesthetics and discovering what exactly happened
I love listening to you theorize 😄 looking forward for what you're about to say later on 😃
The problem with the rubber bullets is that it’s represented as a legitimate historical method of solving even small disputes. If death was an outcome of the duel then that bit wouldn’t have worked out very well.
I think they tried to do trial by combat with a western twist and this is what they came up with. In Ishgard when we fight on behalf of Tataru we don’t kill the knights we just beat them. So this is a similar take. It’s just not what people associate with the Wild West.
I think death *used* to be a possible outcome of the duels, but with the new era of peace under Big Daddy, people killing each other over grievances was heavily discouraged so the rubber bullets is a compromise.
That's true. Garrett even brings up in the video that "sword slashes have been used to knock people out before", so it's not a stretch to do the same here. I know I've shot enough quest enemies as MCH without killing them.
Garrett, I forgot to mention your hair is resplendent here. ;)
The train cutscene was so good. it reminded me of FFX airship cutscene.
The bit about the rubber bullets is that I think they want duels to be non-lethal. I'm quite certain they use regular ammunition on actual threats but in the case of their gun duels, they'd load rubber rounds as to at least not kill (well unless they aim for the eyes or somesuch)
My broadway loving self can't help but love Smile, but it's still hilarious how it just pops in there XD
Fun detail about Erenville taking over on the turret is he misses every shot which is very in character
38:22 The Game has a Rail Shooter Mini Game. Air Force one in the Gold Saucer does this and its fun
For what it's worth, FFXIV already HAS rail shooter/turret stuff with the Airforce One GATE in Gold Saucer. They could have made a duty for the train roof where you can hop in and out of the turret using that GATE's tech.
Always love the cooking. Looking forward so much to the next MSQ stream now.
The song coming on was PERFECTION 😂😂😂😂
23:50 Garret is probably the only MSQ streamer who had any idea how things would actually play out
I'll admit I'm still not the happiest about the duel scene, but it's more on the side of not enjoying that sort of trope in the first place. I was certainly not pleased that we kept letting Grynewaht get away in Stormblood, nor with us nearly letting Asahi away in 4.3 before Yotsuyu got to him. Hell, even in Endwalker patch content I very much didn't enjoy the 'syke, my plan worked all along' after fighting Golbez. There's times where XIV does it better than others, but it's a longstanding issue I've had with the game.
But honestly, that's what it comes down to in not wanting to wade into the discourse for Dawntrail--it feels like so much of it is done on adverse terms. I can explain that my opinion on that scene is consistent with other cases of that sort of thing elsewhere in the MSQ, but there's enough reactionaries at the same time where nobody is really given the benefit of the doubt.
I liked this part too. It wasn't s-tier story telling but things were moving and changing. The first 5 levels felt like 1 long ass arc with nothing unexpected happening (besides small things like wuks biological father). With this part ff14 felt like fantasy epic again.
If you run dungeons with the duty or trust group you’re guaranteed a piece of gear for your class every time you clear. In case anyone needs to farm a piece of gear and don’t want to spend 10 hours. its also a piece you dont have already so its easy to gather the entire set
Not really related to the video. The Escaflowne box set in your clip is so refreshing. It was an iconic anime of my childhood. Love the small shoutout to it.
Personally I tackle big words like that a syllable or two at a time before linking them together. Had to learn this for my medical diagnoses, like DeQuervain's tenosynovitis.
Honestly, I can’t explain why, but the American accents felt like nails on a chalkboard to me
I just can't get over how weird it is. I think maybe it's because they're, like, regular suburban accents rather than western or native american. Doesn't fit the set dressing.
Sounded really hammy to me. 'let everyone know we are americans'!
It's a mix of the sound mixing being weird and the rest of the english speakers in game speak in european accents so it feels very jarring comparatively.
32:23 Our 2nd Ketanram echo. There was another.
Most didn't enjoy the Western zone, but I personally did since I grew up on games like Red Dead Redemption and movies like Rango. My only complaint is that they gave us a BDSM gear set instead of a cowboy gear set for those quests. My hope for a gunslinger coat is getting slimmer but I'm still holding on for that possible surprise (wouldn't be surprised if the new custom deliveries person in that zone gives us a gunslinger glam set)
“Why is Estinien in this expansion” is asked about as often as why the twins are in this expansion. They clearly had nothing for them to do, so why bother?
There’s one theory that I’ve seen that feels most likely. And it’s the trailer. For a fun trailer like Dawntrail’s of course we have to have all the scions enjoying a nice vacation. But that means they’ll need to be in the story, since we don’t want to lie to players.
IDK if it’s true but I believe Square Enix is dumb enough to let marketing impact the story beats.
I think CU3 got the trust system too much in their heads and think that at least 2 scions must be in every dungeon, and they must realize soon that when the trust party is not composed of any scions is a reason people want to run a trust dungeon
@@Velrikk I'm not so sure about that. We've got duty support with unnamed/guest NPCs all the way up through SB. Granted, those were added post ShB. It wasn't originally planned to include those guest NPCs. But it proves that they know duty support doesn't _need_ to be the scions. There's also ktisis hyperboreia in EW that we run in Duty Support with the ancients. Had they the mind to, they could've introduced Turali dps and healer NPCs that join us on our journey with Wuk Lamat to act as duty support NPCs.
Honestly, I think it was just a snafu with the writing process. Maybe the trailer had been conceived early in the writing process before anyone really knew how much impact and presence the scions would have in the story. The original teaser trailer did come out a full year before the expac proper, and it promised all the scions would show up in Tural. So, while I admit it's conjecture on my part, the writers may have been forced to include them.
Edit: Oh lmao that's literally what the originally commenter said in less words xD
I believe it. Parts of the story certainly feel rushed. I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer caught them with their pants down and forced them to inject the scions in there.
Honestly though, I think it works with Estinien. Randomly bumping into him while he just does his own adventuring is a funny concept imo.