I really like the wooden 'stud' you made using the hole saw. =) -There's a trick that makes it a bit easier 'drilling' holes with a hole-saw like that: On the _waste_ _side_ of the hole you're going to make, drill a -say- 10mm hole close enough to just meet the hole saw's blade. This should allow the dust to get away and also avoid burn-marks. ... About plans / kits ... I think plans are great for those who live overseas, because for those people, a kit would grow very expensive (VAT + custom fees + tax on both the item value and the shipping price). Kits on the other hand, would be great for those in your country, who might have difficulties finding special required items (or even alternatives). Personally I'm not favoring one over another, because I know I'll probably not go for building a router table myself (even though it looks great, I just have so many things I need to do). On the other hand, you may want to make both the plans and a couple of kits available (I think customers will understand that making the kits take time, so don't be afraid of running out).
Kits are nice, but seem limited by models/configuration... I could see it for the most common setups. for anything else I imagine plans with a BYO mounting template might be a good option.
I’ve seen this concern addressed simply with a short length of 4-6” flexible hose clamped on the intake end of the router and optionally to a flange on the inside of the dust box. Might block access to speed control though
Great idea! I have a Woodpeckers manual lift and built my router table using the fully enclosed cabinet first promoted by Norm Abram. But I saw the router table that Mike Farrington built and used his concept of inducing air thru a narrow inlet the entire width of the very wide access door in the front of the cabinet. I have zero dust build up and because I have 4 inch and 2.5 inch dust hose hookups, I have tremendous air movement. The vortex created on the pickup side at the back side of the compartment by a narrow inlet to the 4 inch hose really spins the dust out of there.
I would totally be up for a kit depending of cost. This is a great idea. I would add some type of weather stripping around the moving areas to keep the suction.
For the poll on lifts, mine is a Jessem. This is another excellent suggestion. I am about to build a router dust box and I will definitely do something like this. I have no idea how many people will buy kits. Some who say they will, won't. And some who say nothing will. Is worth pointing out that a good seal is unnecessary with an adequate dust collector? Indeed all commercial boxes provide adjustable "leaks." My guess is that this addition does not require tight tolerances, making it even more attractive to the DIYer.
Y E S P L E A S E I need to rethink my router setup after considering your last short, and this would save me a LOT of hassle, while also allowing me to easily upgrade to a router lift in one fell swoop (as my current setup cannot accommodate a lift). I don't have time to design and fashion one myself, so I was expecting to have to beg you for exactly this. PLEASE do it! 😅
Absolutely Andy! My router lift is the JessEm Mast-R-Lift Model # 02120. The router is a Milwaukee 3-1/2HP Model 5625. After buying your 24" TTV, this is a no brainer! Awesome idea!
You are among the first show concern about the air cooling the router motor. You deserve the Nobel Prize of woodworking! We need to think about all of the motors in our wood shops.
I have the Bosch 1617 EVS router, no table or lift, yet. Lots of things going on. Awhile back, I came across an old article about a diy router table and lift. I think it was published in AW in ‘04; AW was later acquired by, or merged with, PW, and I think - not certain about this - that the article has been republished once or twice. There were a couple of things I like about that design: 1) like your design, it kept dust from getting into the router motor, and 2) the router lift was attached to the back of the cabinet, instead of being suspended from the router table insert - you may or may not be aware that over time, router table tops and/or inserts sometimes sag. Having the lift attached to the rear panel avoids that issue. Just thought you might be interested in taking a look. I would definitely be interested in a generic plan, and possibly a kit. As I mentioned, we have a lot going on. I really do want to get a router table built though. I have watched this video at least four times in the last week, and only just realized that it was posted two years ago. Any updates or current status? Stay well.
I've got the motor, screw and controls from a lift chair that I hope to one day use to build a power router lift. I can visualize it in my head, but I'm having trouble getting it on paper and into reality. Also I was wanting to add a fine adjustment because the up/down will be very difficult to use to set the router at the exact height needed. Maybe one day..... sigh....
That is really interesting. I've been thinking about building a new router table, but this might be a thing to strongly consider. And that powered lift.... That might be winner moving forward. 👌
Interested! Jessem rout-r-lift ii. I have 1 suggestion... One of the biggest reasons why I haven't already bought a box for my router lift is that they do dumb things with the dust collection inlet, like requiring the air flow to make a hard right angle, and having lots of inside corners. Up to this point I've been planning my own build so that I can angle dust collection so that it doesn't get choked off, coming in from the bottom of the wall of the box at something like a 45 degree angle.
I don't have a designated table right now, but I think this concept is great. I would use my router even more if it didn't cover everything in my small shop in dust when I used it.
A kit for a couple different routers would be interesting and a set of plans for those of us with differing routers to self modify feels like IMO a good direction.
If the Incra/Jessem are the same dimensionally to support that would absolutely get my vote. If they're not and I'm being selfish, then I would favor the Incra ;) That said, have you looked into the airflow being pulled into the router? I would think it was pretty small relative to the airflow generated by a 4" dust collection port. Wouldn't some ventilation on the box panel opposite the dust port generate enough airflow towards the port to both direct dust and force cool/clean air onto the router inlets? I would think this would have the added benefit of also helping to flush debris that gets trapped in the box.
I really like how you made that wooden dust port. That was a really cool idea. In not really following the benefit of this dust collection box though. How would this be any different than just enclosing the lift mechanism in a middle compartment like it is in so many of those Steve Ramsey-esque router cabinet builds I come across? You can just add a dust port to the back of that couldn't you? Can you explain a bit better why this is a better option? Thanks.
In short, yes. However keep in mind that there are quite a few 3D printable solutions. Perhaps "print it yourself" could be part of a low cost option which includes just the hardware.
Yes, there are a few options that you can buy or print that allow collection where the router meets the table, I didn't particularly like any of them, but also didn't think I could meaningfully improve on them.
i would totally be down for plans. I have the same lift but it is on a tablesaw extension and i would want to incorporate it into some sort of cabinet in the space. Also, would it need to move with the lift or could it be fixed a the highest point?
Don't get me wrong, but how many routers do blow out because of that? IIRC, the Wandel and Heisz versions (for example) have the router sitting right there in the dust box. Some commercial table models seem to do the same. How about a wide flexible tube that connects to the router inlet and draws air from elsewhere? Maybe a 3D printed adapter would be needed for that? If you make it a CNC project please consider selling the .dxf files, so people with CNCs can save on shipping wood around. Always great to see your projects!
I tried to explain this in the last video as well. I don't think this is why routers burn out either, they just burn out from a lot of use or poor manufacturing. With a 4" outlet on a router box there is no way there is any dust near the motor. A simple air inlet, such as a door in the front of the motor compartment that is not completely sealed is plenty to pull clean air past the motor.
How much do you think this will benefit your router, is it something I should absolutely consider doing with mine or just a small luxury that is negligible?
doesn't the router fence normally attach to the tracks in the table, instead of using clamps? Seemed like your fence was turned around, i could be wrong?
Router motors fan direction is to pull the air/chips down toward the motor..... If you pair that with a strong dust collector, the amount of dust actually getting near the motor's weakest point - the bearings - is next to nothing. I have routed MDF for years (7 years professionally) with enclosed routers with 0 issues. The bigger problem, in my opinion, is small router motors used in tables that seem to always be 'straining.' I like your projects, but I'll pass on this one.
YES! YES! YES! Do make a "router lift shroud" in kit form. I will buy 2 kits; if it's price isn't too high for me budget. Now...I can't believe that, you too, felt the "dirty sawdust" is getting into the router on EVERY router duct shroud; that I have EVER seen since they first came out. Thus,; from the beginning, I said, "What in the pluperfect hallelujah are manufacturers thinking about; when they build those stupid router lifts with shrouds"! Huh? So I am delighted to see that you know that; and trying to do something about it. Thanks kind Sir.
Next day-- Saved your video, watched it again but have more questions than answers. I guess your invention allows a downdraft to cool the motor but somehow prevents the dust from passing through the motor, right? Concerning the question of whether you should sell CNCed kits, you first need to make some claims and present some demonstration. Best wishes.
Sorry for the confusion, let me explain, routers have a fan that draw air in from the bottom (end without the bit) to the top to cool the router. So if there is a dust collection box around the whole router and its full of turbulent dusty air since dust from routing is being sucked through it, then the router will be drawing in dusty air which can damage it. The difference with mine is that the bottom intake of the router pokes out from the box so it always draws clean air from outside the dust collection path.
I haven’t looked at the grizzly power lift, so can’t give a comparison of the two. My intention is to make the kits, so I really do need a CNC, I’m not interested in immediacy contracting kit production.
@@AndrewKleinWW The Grizzly is nice, but doesn't have the foot pedal. My point about CNC was that I hope the kit would be something that didn't require a CNC to put togethr on my end. :)
I guess the real question is, do you have data to prove that routers fail faster when enclosed in a typical router table box vs. out in the open? I suspect that there is negligible difference, and other variables make much more of an impact on longevity. Then again, I have no data to prove this either.
If you sell kits, are you going to include the block of scrap curly maple? Seriously, who has scrap curly maple? You site should be flogged! Lol Just kidding. I think this is a great design, as per your usual. I will say that, as you point out, there's tons of different lift models out there. It will be a challenge to find out the most frequently used models to make this worth while as a kit unless you do lots of variations in your CNC design.
Woo CNC 👍 I started with avid before they were avid. A router lift would be pretty handy for us, we currently have our routers in boxes, so yeah they are eating their own dust some!
I like my pro avid machine too. I have had 2 of their machines. The first one was still called cnc router parts. My only problem is that for the past few years they have been lying to me saying that automatic tool changers are about to be released. I don't believe them anymore! So I am planning to upgrade machines. Plus they give the things out to youtubers like candy.
@@worldtreedesign are they still using mach3 or 4? It's pretty involved but I'm sure you can figure out how to add an ATC spindle to your machine. On my machine I choose the route of adding two extra spindles I stead of an ATC one. So I have 3 spindles for three different tools. Cheaper up front cost and cheaper to replace cheap spindles 🙂 that being said I'd like to purchase an ATC spindle some day!
I really like the wooden 'stud' you made using the hole saw. =)
-There's a trick that makes it a bit easier 'drilling' holes with a hole-saw like that:
On the _waste_ _side_ of the hole you're going to make, drill a -say- 10mm hole close enough to just meet the hole saw's blade.
This should allow the dust to get away and also avoid burn-marks.
... About plans / kits ...
I think plans are great for those who live overseas, because for those people, a kit would grow very expensive (VAT + custom fees + tax on both the item value and the shipping price).
Kits on the other hand, would be great for those in your country, who might have difficulties finding special required items (or even alternatives).
Personally I'm not favoring one over another, because I know I'll probably not go for building a router table myself (even though it looks great, I just have so many things I need to do).
On the other hand, you may want to make both the plans and a couple of kits available (I think customers will understand that making the kits take time, so don't be afraid of running out).
I will add another request for a Jessem based system. This is a great idea, thank you for your ingenuity.
Plans are great for those of us with different models/brands. We can adapt the plan to our application.
Kits are nice, but seem limited by models/configuration... I could see it for the most common setups. for anything else I imagine plans with a BYO mounting template might be a good option.
I think the kit for the MLCS Pro Lift is a great idea. Should be available through MLCS. Great creativity Andy.
I’ve seen this concern addressed simply with a short length of 4-6” flexible hose clamped on the intake end of the router and optionally to a flange on the inside of the dust box. Might block access to speed control though
Great idea! I have a Woodpeckers manual lift and built my router table using the fully enclosed cabinet first promoted by Norm Abram. But I saw the router table that Mike Farrington built and used his concept of inducing air thru a narrow inlet the entire width of the very wide access door in the front of the cabinet. I have zero dust build up and because I have 4 inch and 2.5 inch dust hose hookups, I have tremendous air movement. The vortex created on the pickup side at the back side of the compartment by a narrow inlet to the 4 inch hose really spins the dust out of there.
Nice work on the dust collection for the router Andrew! Thank you for sharing it with us!💖👍😎JP
I would totally be up for a kit depending of cost. This is a great idea. I would add some type of weather stripping around the moving areas to keep the suction.
there needs to be air intake somewhere
For the poll on lifts, mine is a Jessem.
This is another excellent suggestion. I am about to build a router dust box and I will definitely do something like this. I have no idea how many people will buy kits. Some who say they will, won't. And some who say nothing will.
Is worth pointing out that a good seal is unnecessary with an adequate dust collector? Indeed all commercial boxes provide adjustable "leaks." My guess is that this addition does not require tight tolerances, making it even more attractive to the DIYer.
I'm interested in plans for sure; but, would also consider purchasing a kit to build one.
This is exactly what I would like to install on the wing of my table saw to increase its longevity.
Y E S P L E A S E
I need to rethink my router setup after considering your last short, and this would save me a LOT of hassle, while also allowing me to easily upgrade to a router lift in one fell swoop (as my current setup cannot accommodate a lift). I don't have time to design and fashion one myself, so I was expecting to have to beg you for exactly this. PLEASE do it! 😅
Right on, thanks for the feedback and enthusiasm
I vote for plans - then we can adapt it for the lift we have
Absolutely Andy! My router lift is the JessEm Mast-R-Lift Model # 02120. The router is a Milwaukee 3-1/2HP Model 5625. After buying your 24" TTV, this is a no brainer! Awesome idea!
Jessem MAST-R-LIFT II please
YES, please!
You are among the first show concern about the air cooling the router motor. You deserve the Nobel Prize of woodworking! We need to think about all of the motors in our wood shops.
I have the Bosch 1617 EVS router, no table or lift, yet. Lots of things going on.
Awhile back, I came across an old article about a diy router table and lift. I think it was published in AW in ‘04; AW was later acquired by, or merged with, PW, and I think - not certain about this - that the article has been republished once or twice.
There were a couple of things I like about that design: 1) like your design, it kept dust from getting into the router motor, and 2) the router lift was attached to the back of the cabinet, instead of being suspended from the router table insert - you may or may not be aware that over time, router table tops and/or inserts sometimes sag. Having the lift attached to the rear panel avoids that issue.
Just thought you might be interested in taking a look.
I would definitely be interested in a generic plan, and possibly a kit. As I mentioned, we have a lot going on. I really do want to get a router table built though.
I have watched this video at least four times in the last week, and only just realized that it was posted two years ago. Any updates or current status?
Stay well.
I've got the motor, screw and controls from a lift chair that I hope to one day use to build a power router lift. I can visualize it in my head, but I'm having trouble getting it on paper and into reality. Also I was wanting to add a fine adjustment because the up/down will be very difficult to use to set the router at the exact height needed. Maybe one day..... sigh....
Great design. The Bosch 1617EVS. Its a very popular lift on their benchtop table. This seems small enough where it could work really well.
Yes on the dust collection part.
Brilliant, Andrew! Really well done! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks, you too!
Thick neoprene collar around router attached to sliding box to accommodate different router brands. Just a thought
I have a woodpeckers lift and would love to have a kit like this for my portamate motor.
+1 for the MLCS lift.
That is really interesting. I've been thinking about building a new router table, but this might be a thing to strongly consider. And that powered lift.... That might be winner moving forward. 👌
Great, glad it was timely, that router lift really is excellent, a bit more expensive, but worth it imho
This is awesome. Not sure if you know but jeseem makes most of the router lifts for other companies so one might fit alot more brands
Looks great. I thought about the same thing when I bought my router table
Interested! Jessem rout-r-lift ii. I have 1 suggestion... One of the biggest reasons why I haven't already bought a box for my router lift is that they do dumb things with the dust collection inlet, like requiring the air flow to make a hard right angle, and having lots of inside corners. Up to this point I've been planning my own build so that I can angle dust collection so that it doesn't get choked off, coming in from the bottom of the wall of the box at something like a 45 degree angle.
I don't have a designated table right now, but I think this concept is great. I would use my router even more if it didn't cover everything in my small shop in dust when I used it.
I don’t see how this is any better than the whole router enclosed in a box.
The router isn't choking on dust. It's taking in clean air.
I have that same metabo router! It is my first router ever so I can't compare to anything but such a good deal for a very nice router
3:48 Welcome to the Jungle...
HAHA, good ear, thats funny
Andy Klein - genius badass! Always enjoy your inventions and innovations!
A kit for a couple different routers would be interesting and a set of plans for those of us with differing routers to self modify feels like IMO a good direction.
Cool, thanks!
I vote for the Incra Mast-R-Lift-II-R
I would be interested in a kit - what would the dimensions be and what router motors and lifts would it fit?
Wow, you made a box ;) you make a lot of good stuff this one ...
Make a sign up for people, when you hit a certain number; turn that into paid preorders
Don't own a router, but I love the 2-box idea!
A kit would be great. I have the older MLCS lift.
I'm going to be ordering a MLCS Powerlift Pro soon. Will you be creating a kit? I like your idea about the clean air intake for the router motor.
I am hopefully building my Paoson workbench with your vise on it. I also would like to add this for the built in router lift I'm planning.
Very cool. But I'd like to see it in action routing some wood. And a demonstration of how well it collects dust.
I know it was brief but I did do a little routing with the dust collection on at the end
If you want to make this useful enough, you need to figure out how to make a universal setup. There are way too many router models out there.
1:55 - I've never seen anyone do this before. I'm assuming you're clamping on both sides of the hole to keep the wood from splintering?
Love the Jessem!
I'd be interested I have a Jessem with a Bosch router
If the Incra/Jessem are the same dimensionally to support that would absolutely get my vote. If they're not and I'm being selfish, then I would favor the Incra ;) That said, have you looked into the airflow being pulled into the router? I would think it was pretty small relative to the airflow generated by a 4" dust collection port. Wouldn't some ventilation on the box panel opposite the dust port generate enough airflow towards the port to both direct dust and force cool/clean air onto the router inlets? I would think this would have the added benefit of also helping to flush debris that gets trapped in the box.
I really like this one great idea.
Are you still taking suggestions on kits for certain router lifts?
Got the JesseM lift but whether to buy or copy your design depends on the cost.
I've watched you long enough to know if you say "do you think you'd be interested in x" my immediate response is yes
I really like how you made that wooden dust port. That was a really cool idea.
In not really following the benefit of this dust collection box though. How would this be any different than just enclosing the lift mechanism in a middle compartment like it is in so many of those Steve Ramsey-esque router cabinet builds I come across? You can just add a dust port to the back of that couldn't you?
Can you explain a bit better why this is a better option? Thanks.
In short, yes. However keep in mind that there are quite a few 3D printable solutions. Perhaps "print it yourself" could be part of a low cost option which includes just the hardware.
Yes, there are a few options that you can buy or print that allow collection where the router meets the table, I didn't particularly like any of them, but also didn't think I could meaningfully improve on them.
@@AndrewKleinWW I wasn't being very clear, sorry. I was thinking primarily about the couplers and adapters. I like your overall design as is.
I just stretch pantyhose over the router's air intake and tell myself it's an effective air filter.
id vote on the Woodpecker lift.
i would totally be down for plans. I have the same lift but it is on a tablesaw extension and i would want to incorporate it into some sort of cabinet in the space. Also, would it need to move with the lift or could it be fixed a the highest point?
Don't get me wrong, but how many routers do blow out because of that? IIRC, the Wandel and Heisz versions (for example) have the router sitting right there in the dust box. Some commercial table models seem to do the same.
How about a wide flexible tube that connects to the router inlet and draws air from elsewhere? Maybe a 3D printed adapter would be needed for that?
If you make it a CNC project please consider selling the .dxf files, so people with CNCs can save on shipping wood around.
Always great to see your projects!
I tried to explain this in the last video as well. I don't think this is why routers burn out either, they just burn out from a lot of use or poor manufacturing. With a 4" outlet on a router box there is no way there is any dust near the motor. A simple air inlet, such as a door in the front of the motor compartment that is not completely sealed is plenty to pull clean air past the motor.
How much do you think this will benefit your router, is it something I should absolutely consider doing with mine or just a small luxury that is negligible?
doesn't the router fence normally attach to the tracks in the table, instead of using clamps? Seemed like your fence was turned around, i could be wrong?
Router motors fan direction is to pull the air/chips down toward the motor..... If you pair that with a strong dust collector, the amount of dust actually getting near the motor's weakest point - the bearings - is next to nothing. I have routed MDF for years (7 years professionally) with enclosed routers with 0 issues. The bigger problem, in my opinion, is small router motors used in tables that seem to always be 'straining.'
I like your projects, but I'll pass on this one.
YES! YES! YES! Do make a "router lift shroud" in kit form. I will buy 2 kits; if it's price isn't too high for me budget.
Now...I can't believe that, you too, felt the "dirty sawdust" is getting into the router on EVERY router duct shroud; that I have EVER seen since they first came out. Thus,; from the beginning, I said, "What in the pluperfect hallelujah are manufacturers thinking about; when they build those stupid router lifts with shrouds"! Huh?
So I am delighted to see that you know that; and trying to do something about it. Thanks kind Sir.
KREG PRS5000 Precision Router Lift !
Question;
Have you ever patented any of your inventions?
.
Jessem II
Jessem here also.....
Next day-- Saved your video, watched it again but have more questions than answers. I guess your invention allows a downdraft to cool the motor but somehow prevents the dust from passing through the motor, right? Concerning the question of whether you should sell CNCed kits, you first need to make some claims and present some demonstration. Best wishes.
Sorry for the confusion, let me explain, routers have a fan that draw air in from the bottom (end without the bit) to the top to cool the router. So if there is a dust collection box around the whole router and its full of turbulent dusty air since dust from routing is being sucked through it, then the router will be drawing in dusty air which can damage it. The difference with mine is that the bottom intake of the router pokes out from the box so it always draws clean air from outside the dust collection path.
@@AndrewKleinWW Ah, so!
If there is going to be a kit, it should not depend on access to a CNC device. Also, have you considered the GRIZZLY power lift router?
I haven’t looked at the grizzly power lift, so can’t give a comparison of the two. My intention is to make the kits, so I really do need a CNC, I’m not interested in immediacy contracting kit production.
@@AndrewKleinWW The Grizzly is nice, but doesn't have the foot pedal. My point about CNC was that I hope the kit would be something that didn't require a CNC to put togethr on my end. :)
Ohhhh, got it yes, if I sold a kit I would do the CNCing and the customer would just be doing a bit of drilling, screwing and gluing
@@AndrewKleinWW Then I am all for it. Sign me up! This has been an issue of concern for me for quite a while. Great idea!! Thanx!
I guess the real question is, do you have data to prove that routers fail faster when enclosed in a typical router table box vs. out in the open? I suspect that there is negligible difference, and other variables make much more of an impact on longevity. Then again, I have no data to prove this either.
Kreg lift
Jessem!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kreg Lift
If you sell kits, are you going to include the block of scrap curly maple? Seriously, who has scrap curly maple? You site should be flogged! Lol
Just kidding. I think this is a great design, as per your usual. I will say that, as you point out, there's tons of different lift models out there. It will be a challenge to find out the most frequently used models to make this worth while as a kit unless you do lots of variations in your CNC design.
I wouldn't. It seems clunky.
Hey Andrew- I'd still like my 50% off discount code please 😁
No. Just make an awesome video and monetize it and collect the money off that, way simpler, one and done.
What if this is the most awesome video I’m capable of …
@@AndrewKleinWW Well, it's brand new, so time will tell. I didn't watch it.
Nice & novel idea, thankyou for posting. What were your results? How well does it work?
Woo CNC 👍 I started with avid before they were avid. A router lift would be pretty handy for us, we currently have our routers in boxes, so yeah they are eating their own dust some!
Great feedback, thanks
I like my pro avid machine too. I have had 2 of their machines. The first one was still called cnc router parts. My only problem is that for the past few years they have been lying to me saying that automatic tool changers are about to be released. I don't believe them anymore! So I am planning to upgrade machines. Plus they give the things out to youtubers like candy.
@@worldtreedesign are they still using mach3 or 4? It's pretty involved but I'm sure you can figure out how to add an ATC spindle to your machine. On my machine I choose the route of adding two extra spindles I stead of an ATC one. So I have 3 spindles for three different tools. Cheaper up front cost and cheaper to replace cheap spindles 🙂 that being said I'd like to purchase an ATC spindle some day!