BOA: It's Time for the TRUTH
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- Elliott Gives his thoughts on the BOA ski boot Mechanism. Reacts to BOA Gloves, and Out of Collective's video about BOA.
You can see the original Out of Collective Video Here: • The Problem with BOA S...
I have K2 Mindbender 120 BOA boots, I work at a small hill doing ski patrol. I was in my boots for 10.5 hours today. The ability to very quickly adjust my boots with just a twist of the knob. I can loosen them off while in the hut but can instantly adjust them if I get called to the hill. I found them much more comfortable than the same model with just buckles. I really like mine and I just finished my 15th 8+ hour day on them. I have recommended people try them.
I've been thinking the same thing about making quick tweaks during the day. You can't really do that with buckles. But then again, there is stepping in the BOA adjustments too, as with buckle twisting micro-adjustments.
Haven't tried BOA yet, due to bugdet issues :D
Oh, what a cool use case! I hadn't considered ski patrol but that makes a ton of sense.
The BOAs cramp my toes or smash my instep... but I would have bought them anyway, except none of those boots fit me. Nordicas were actually made from a mold of my foot LOL !!
@@jackieonassis7438 actually what you seem to be saying is that you tried on non-fitting boots and tell that BOA smashed your feet. There's a bit of conflict there.
Are they reliable overall? I hear complains about components falling, such as screws or rivets.
Tell ya what, the guy on the right of the cover art is hot.
AYO, Love your stuff. Also the wall management behind him, for skis and boots is on point!
😅😂😂😂
FWIW, I just bought a pair of Salomon boots, with Boa to replace the 2 buckles over the top of the foot. I really like it there. The way it closes the boot takes away all of the pain and circulation problems I've had for many decades. Fit is great. For me, it's a big win. But my feet are not your feet.
That's awesome! I think they have a place, and if they help anyone get a better fit that's really valuable.
Totally agree with your reaction. When I worked in a ski shop we always advised new skiers to invest in boots before skis.
Good advice!
I'm currently using the Fisher Ranger 130 with Zip Fits with 150+ days on them. I'm a big fan of the Zip Fits, solved a lot of my fit issues. I don't buckle my boots with even pressure, and I release the two lower buckles every time I'm not skiing. The second to lowest buckle is at a medium thumb pressure, while the lowest buckle is at the lowest thumb pressure that keeps it closed. The advantage of buckles is I can flick the lower two buckles down as I'm getting off the lift and then I'm ready to go! ... with BOA I would be constantly exploring the right tension. Perhaps including BOA on the liner of a touring boot might make sense, I had that set-up years ago on a telemark boot. As an engineer honestly don't see what problem they are solving!
Yeah that's very similar to my experience!
You mentioned other skis you’d like to review- can I suggest the Elan Ripstick 96 black edition? It’s one of my favorite skis, and my daily driver. I use it anytime there’s been no recent fresh snow (any pow and I reach for my other non-Elan 104 or 116 skis). Because I can’t just drop everything and go ski when the conditions are good that means I end up skiing my Ripsticks a lot! I’d love to see what you think of them. I think Elan has got something really innovative with the amphibio design, and you can feel the carbon rods both in the strength, and nimble/lightness.
I second this!!! I wanted a Ripstick 96 black edition but got the Kore 93 after trying it and being blown away. I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Ripstick and how it compares to similar skis (like the Kore 93)!!!😊
I am trying really hard, but Elan has been unresponsive, I gotta find a new way to reach them.
Elan Ripstick black 96 review is up!
I currently use the atomic Hawx ultra ski boot with buckles, which I absolutely love . I work in the ski industry and totally agree with you . I honestly can’t see what all the hype is about, yes boa is ok but I by far prefer the feel of my buckle boots .
Agreed, glad they exist if they help people, but I haven't been able to find value in my personal use.
Speaking of cable systems and boots that might make thing a lot easier for some people. Any thoughts or opinions on the rear entry Nordica HF?
Haven't tried it yet, but whatever works for people.
I used to have to unbuckle my boots at the lift because I had improperly fitting boots for so long. My new boots are stiffer and a size down from my old ones and I almost never have to unbuckle. A proper-fitting boot is so important.
True, I find unbuckling just depends on how aggressively I'm skiing as well.
Love the rant. I’ve skied Full Tilt boots for the last four years and love the fit, flex and on hill performance. What I came to very much dislike were the buckles. Getting the boots off, no problem but dealing with the cables and finding the same click on the ratchet when putting them on finally wore me out. So, this season I committed to finding a more friendly buckling boot while still having a great fit and performance. I ended up buying the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA GW 120 boots. I love the fit, heel hold and on hill performance. The BOA is not a game changer but the fit is very good (I have flat feet) and more easily adjusted. There are also two less buckles to fumble with; a double win. With the costs for skiing these days, the few extra dollars for the BOA was a rounding error (the difference between staying in the La Quinta vs the Best Western Plus for a weekend). Or the cost of one night of drinking on a ski trip.
Great point! Yeah I agree, whatever gives people the best fit is good news in my eyes.
You have to tip the hat to out of collective for bringing some personality to his videos. I like that his stuff isn’t cookie cutter like some of the other channels who all play the same character
100% agree!
I have a wide foot and punching only does so much, so I’m constantly fiddling with buckles. The quick release / tightening of Boa is attractive.
That's awesome! I always say, whatever gets people comfortable in their boots.
To be clear, I’ve never had a boot with Boa, but I am sending the lusty glances.
Love the Rants Elliot. Not only opinions, but rants! Super funny and entertaining. A great boot fitter seems like such a better answer than people's opinion on boots. Keep up the good work. Probably more entertaining than helpful.... but this is great! Oh... and looking forward to Elan Ripstick black edition review.
Hoping too though elan hasn't answered my emails lol
I tried them on in a shop and didn't see a huge improvement. My foot is wide and flat, so I like having the buckles pushing down on my instep. One thing where I see the boas being useful is that I don't ski with the same socks every time, they all have different thicknesses, and it's a pain to have to adjust the micro on the buckle to get a perfect fit. I also often open the 2 middle buckles when going on the lift, especially early in the day before my feet get adapted to the boot.
Good point about the socks!
I've been skiing every weekend for 1 month now with a pair of Salomon Supra Boa 120.
It's an extraordinary boot, I can keep them on from morning to night without having to adjust the fit and I don't feel any pain or discomfort. It's true that the precision of the tightening is a valid argument, as I've never had such a sensation of a tightening precision with a shoe, there's no such thing as too tight or not tight enough, the system is very reliable and with a safety system where the BOA knob comes off in big fall. On the other hand, I have the impression of tightening it a little more after several hours. In conclusion, if you have to buy a pair of shoes, you can go for BOA, the comfort problem doesn't exist and it's as precise and efficient as the others I've tried with a flex of 120.
I use BOA on my mountain and road biking shoes. I love them there because I can easily readjust the fit without fiddling with laces especially when riding without a stop. I was excited to try them on ski boots and (I'm a new skier) and was willing to pay a premium for it. The shell hurt so much when I put my foot in (somehow they cut it differently around the tongue) and I had to take them off immediately. I've skied a few times now and I don't see how BOA makes things easier with skis since they only focus on the lower foot. With one hand motion I can quickly disengage buckles completely to take off my boot. BOA requires more fiddling like laces on ski boots in order to loosten them up to put your feet in and take them out so its a no go for me. If they can figure out a BOA system that solves all latches in one go then I'd be willing to try again but for now it doesn't make sense to me.
I've been following these conversations on Blister and I'm glad to see you cover it. I am neutral towards BOA; glad that it offers potentially more options for skiers that it will benefit, but unsure of whether it will actually see wide acceptance and use throughout the ski boot industry or if it will prove to be a fad. I think that its likely that at least some BOA models will be here to stay, especially if there are a wide range of customers who benefit from its fit options for various reasons. I think the reason that buckles have stuck around so long, and will continue to stick around even with the BOA improvements is because of all the points you raised: ease of repair, flushness to the boots (so that they do not easily get caught and damaged on exposed rocks/branches or when carving), and affordability.
What has truly revolutionized ski boots, in my opinion is improved customizable, long lasting liners such as ZipFits along with custom boot fitters, which can have a liner last through several different boot shells and improve the fit for many users. I'm currently using the stock liners in my Atomic Hawx Ultras, until they pack out and need replacing, at which point I will work with my bootfitters to switch the liner out for the ZipFits, and continue using my boot shell until it wears out. Such aftermarket liners are making ski boots significantly more durable, as usually the shell outlives the liner for most people, and ZipFits are significantly more durable than the stock liners on the market. Compared to these important improvements in boot durability and fit, I don't see BOAs as nearly as significant for most users, though I think they will have a valuable place for a few.
Totally agree, it didn't stand out to me, but I can appreciate that it's helping other people get a better fit.
OK, maybe a good solution for seniors or kids that lack strength to buckle? For your average adult, I don't see the point.
Same, though apparently it's helping some people with fit.
RicketySkiReviews Elliot, what do you think about the Atomic Maverick 88TI vs the Nordica Steadfast 85 vs Elan Wingman 86 CTI vs __________ fill in the blank? I am looking for something that will not hinder me in trees, and will rock the 60% of the time that I am groomers. I need it to pop out of the turn. I am an advanced skiier and I load the ski hard and want energy back, not just heavy damping that crushes through crud, I actually want pop.
I will try and get on those this season, some of it depends on the companies though, as they don't reply to me when I reach out, but certainly some of those are at rental centers.
I have some Demos lined up for this weekend!! I have not found many 88's in UT but I plan to hop on as many as I can find@@RicketySkiReviews
BOA being best for high insteps seems counterintuitive to me because the way I deal with my high instep is to barely tension the second buckle and go tighter on the 1st and 3rd buckles. I get how BOA wraps the foot more effectively from the sides instead of straight down on the top of the foot, but the individual tuning you get with buckles seems better. I’ll have to try a pair on.
For me it's simply a durability concern. A tiny, all plastic ratchet mechanism cannot possibly last as long as all metal buckles in terms of material degradation.
Same with the cables sheilding is probably going to yellow and Crack after a few years
True, I think it just depends on the boots lifetime too, some boots I've had only last a couple of years, so likely the boot will die for me before the Boa would.
There is no shielding on BOA cables for the record.
Expression is ‘off the cuff,’ boyo! 😂 But made my day as I collect these. 😊
My biggest fear came true, haha, oh well, glad you corrected me so I can change it.
I just feel grateful I recently replaced my alpine and touring boots so I don't need to think about BOA for a few years at least. It does feel like every outdoor sport is now offering.. "this but NOW with BOA." I look forward to the industry and early consumers sorting out the best use cases, and then we can all hop aboard.
Totally, I have a friend who reviews running shoes and he was saying the same thing!
Reaction to the BOA gloves is hysterical, you are the Bill Burr of Ski reviews! HA HA!
Omg, this is the biggest compliment I've ever gotten, Bill is a Legend.
I've been using boa wading boots for fishing and whatnot that get really abused for like 7 years and theyre still going strong
Awesome!
BOA on bike shoes seems to be reliable - albeit Mathieu Van de P's crash showed they are more fragile than laces or ratchets. I like my BOA bike shoes, but crashing on ice or hitting gates? Maybe if they could put it on top like on Krypton Pros.
omg that's heartbreaking
One of my rollerblade pair has a BOA kind of a strap. And while I like the ease of use, and it works fine for most of what I did in the past with my inlines. They do NOT offer better fit at all. I'd say it is a bit too loose for high end performance like powerslides and Downhill or wizard skating, or skatepark. Like you said, maybe the technology has significantly change over the years (I've had those old crossfire for 15 years and I'm very impressed by the quality of this strap as it feels like the shell will brake before the strap (the shell is already quite noodly,)) but I'm sceptic.
Yeah, that's my guess too, ski boots have a limited life
@@RicketySkiReviews took a risk extending the life of my boots and I feel like I might not make it the end of the month... Thats a bummer.
I wonder if a broken boa in your glove would immediately end your day on the mountain..? I mean, could the ski patrol provide a life line..?
I guess it just depends which way it breaks, too loose or too tight lol
BOA is great but only really improves things for skiers with a certain foot type (namely extra wide forefoot and high arch).
Those folks could until now ski almost no boot as-is and always needed some form of punching/widening but then there was still the problem of buckles creating preasure points on top of the foot.
BOA solves that beautifully: the boots are usually a tad wider than the stated last (since it is easily possible to snug them up a lot and without preassure points due to the even wrap of the cable).
This is also why with most boots only the MV/HV versions have BOA while the LVs still get classic buckles.
As far as durability goes: no one really knows if there might be an issue since its a completely new and beefier design than classic BOA. And while someone will certainly manage to break the knob: buckles can break too (and be replaced) so wheres the difference?
Glad to see it's helping those people. As far as durability ski boots only last so many runs, so likely they will need to be replaced anyways at that point.
It does not only help with one particular type of foot. I have a very average foot both in terms of width and volume and BOA absolutely fits better and closes more evenly on my foot. I have also been using a Zipfit liner for over 20 years. Zipfit with BOA is the ultimate fit and performance. Also use it on all my cycling shoes and works great there also. I also own a specialty ski shop and have been a professional boot fitter for over 40 years.
Hi Brian. I have 115mm last, high arch (volume) but skinny ankles. Good skier and do some touring. A few problem's:
1. After punching of my Lange's, there is very little overlap in the flap so my feet get very cold to the point i have to wear bootie covers every day
2. so many inserts on liner that any shift in one (sometimes can also be caused by liver packing out) gives me blisters, especially if i have to boot pack.
I was looking at getting a new shell but wanted to also try the Zipfits. Obviously hard to say, but would you recommend this route based on your experience? any pitfalls i should worry about? @@brianbeaumont9393
@brianbeaumont9393
I am in Salomon S/Pro Supra 130 BOA and Zipfit WCSW liners (and also most of my everyday/runnig shoes are BOA) so yeah, totally agree with you 😜
What i meant is that average or low volume foot folks usually can make at least some model of buckle boot work without having to go the "plugboot route" where the boots are basically unwearable unless a bootfitter does a lot of work on the shells first. Doesn't mean BOA on a boot would be worse for them, just not THE super important feature.
The majority of comments under this video are a good representation for that: people can't even imagine why buckled boots could be problematic and BOA therefore just being the new/gimmicky/overpriced thing. But how many of them are >110mm last, high instep/volume, skinny ankled 🤔
@@beijihu thanks man. Yeah I have exactly that problem where the bottom buckles just feel like they are crushing my foot flatter and cutting off circulation. Think it’s caused by boots being stretched so wide in forefoot.
BOA ski boots remind me of an athletic shoe from 1989, the Reebok Pump. Something for those who need an incentive to buy new boots and/or want that "speed dial" or quick fit innovation. The BOA mechanism seems bulky and not robust for multiple seasons of hard use (I could be wrong). I'd rather have comfort and performance (ability to buckle firm), and with reliability (fewest failure points) for my dollars. But, companies must sell to stay alive and these kind of innovations (some are gimmicks) work to help generate revenue. Just hope buckles remain the gold standard, or at least until I try BOA ski boots decide they're cool enough; TBD. Meanwhile, I'm in Nordica Speedmachines.
I loved my snowboard boots with the pumps
There is a slight possibility, though, that if BOA was the original contraption on the boots, and they started putting buckles on them now, you'd get a different truth.
@5:40 you need to check out what the Japanese have come up with: they have a pull-cord tools that you can use to tighten them BOAs.
@17:30 when it comes actually down to a broken buckle, you don't really fix it, you replace it. How is that different in replacing parts in the BOA system? The pulleys, dial and the wire are replacable with standard tools, I believe. So, not that different to replacing buckles.
Good points! I'm comfortable replacing, but understand if that's not the case for most
Yes, a snug fit is good, but i think more important is the sole of the foot. Footbeds is where the action is. You need to get that right.
Oh good point! 👍
I don't know that I agree with you. I have been skiing for 40 plus reviews. For the first time I have found boots I can get to a comfortable level across the top of my arch. I agree that they may not be for everyone, but no one boot is for everyone. Get fit, and ski your best. Have fun. If BOA does that... So be it....
Totally! If it works that's awesome.
Buckle is easy to reset to the same pressure every time. Set and forget. Boa is variable every time, this is a negative in my mind.
Hadn't thought of that great point.
Disagree got the Solomon very comfortable boot even pressure all round foot. I’ve got big wide ugly feet with big calves boots av always been a Nitemare these go someways to taking pressure off that instep.
For me the bortom buckles barely serve a function as is.
I've heard a couple people say that as well, interesting.
We want some Armada Declivity reviews !
I'm trying, Armada has been radio silent!
@@RicketySkiReviews Its what I feared since you said Salomon was silent... they're sister companies.
Rick, I’ve skied all the BOA boots currently being offered and if you read the research results now available after almost 8 years of testing and development, you will see BOA the company has over a million data points on fit and performance. It clearly offers a better fit and better performance, somewhere in the 7-10% range. Not like a 50% improvement but definitely significant. They are currently working on a World Cup version, they wouldn’t even be attempting this if it did not have significant advantages. Most importantly if you haven’t spent some significant time in several of them your opinion isn’t really valid. For the record I own a specialty ski shop and have been testing equipment for over 45 years and BOA offers many advantages. As for durability they are at the very least as durable as buckles. We replace tons of broken buckles every year. And as far as knocking the knob off in regular skiing, if you hit it on a tree or other immobile object you have bigger problems. The wrap of the BOA is superior to any buckle boot I’ve used and I have a very average foot and have been using the Zipfit liners for over 20 years and they are superior to any liner stock or aftermarket, you should absolutely try them. Also loosening or tightening the BOA is a 20 second affair. You will also see other lasts and volume boots in the next few years. Your idea that we as shops are just selling because it makes us more money is patently false. In fact the Fischer MV pro boot with the Zipfit liner saves $200-300 over purchasing a boot and Zipfit liner separately as was the only previous option. As far as repairs we can repair any piece of the BOA system faster and easier than any riveted on buckle. Also Inhave taught skiing and been a race coach for most of my life so I have a great deal of experience. I always tell anyone who sells equipment or reviews it they need to have an open mind to all new ideas. Any way my opinion, just had to comment because I think you’re giving BOA a bad rap and may sway people from trying it who could absolutely benefit from the advantages it has over buckles. One last note if you have a more open mind to new products and don’t bash them vendors are more likely to respond in a positive manner to getting you equipment for review. Cheers
I agree, and I don't think that's the only reason shops sell them, I've just notice a tendency for sales people to want to "upsell" for that boot. But I agree that if it helps people get a better fit, it's totally valuable.
I just don't think it's for everyone, and I would be interested to see how the BOA would be adopted by the WC, there was such weird adoption just for Lace up liners when they come out and those were relatively less drastic of a change.
Great points though, and I do think if they provide value for people then that's great.
Review the Justis!
I'm trying!
I just think it's more fragile than current buckle systems.... BOA on gloves is just plain stupidity....
When Mathieu Van der Pol won the world championship in road cycling he crashed a few KM from the finish. No biggie, he had a huge lead, but the boa knob broke off his shoe and he had to rip it off as he pedaled only to finish the race with a loose shoe.
You have a great point on boa
omg@@falllinemaniac
yeah, the gloves seem highly over engineered.
Gimmick gimmick gimmick...not as durable plus I am like you! I have different tensions on front and 2nd buckle which are micro adjustab😮le too..how you going to do that with a BOA system?? Plus a buckle ski boot is still skiable with a broken buckle..but a BOA break.. all tension is lost.
Gloves with Boa?? Whats wrong with Velcro
agree 100%
You're gonna be disappointed in a few years lol when 90% of boot models will be BOA. They will perfect it even more and apart from race boots I think BOA will practically be on every boot model.
BOA has existed for shoes for years now... still makes up less than 10% of sales. I don't think it will take off as much as you think unless manufactures no longer provide other options.
I will eat my Hat the day that happens.
They said the same thing about rear entry boots in the 1980s
@@jons7e It's funny though how many seem so triggered by this lol. I mean it's an improved closing system because of the single mechanism instead of several buckles. If that's important to people then it's an improvement. It's also definitely more of a uniform closing system but yet may not be for everybody, especially if you like to adjust pressure in different areas of the foot, again though that's the minority of people. BOA is definitely here to stay though. Would anybody buy a ski helmet without BOA these days?? Good luck finding high end cycling shoes that don't use BOA. At the end of the day it will be more cost effective to manufacture boots with BOA than buckles and they will force the change. I can even see BOA being incorporated in like ski zipfit liners to replace the strings.
@@RicketySkiReviewsget ready to eat your hat because more are on the way and they are already testing race versions. Ex World Cup racer Benni Raich has been involved in this development from the very start.
Ski boots last 100 days???
What on earth goes wrong with them?????
There's no hard and fast expiration date, it's just general mileage. Similar to running shoes only having between 300 and 500 miles on them (it also depends on climate, how much sun exposure etc.)
dont u sometimes think that maybe you are just getting old???? 😂
Think? Oh I know
BOA is a fad, it'll be gone in two years. If you want to look like a sucker on the slopes, get a BOA boot. But I guess if your willing to fork out $200/day for lift tickets and stand in 45 minute lift lines all day you are the perfect customer for it. It's critical you show off the latest and greatest in a lift line or clomping around at lunch in a ski area cafeteria eating $25 hamburgers. If you have arthritis, turning a dial will be much more difficult than using a buckle. If you have a wide foot like me, a proper wider boot, custom foot beds, and a good boot fitter cures that, a BOA system doesn't make a boot wider. How about they put a BOA system on ski jackets to close them up? BOA closures on ski pants, it will surely make it easier to go at a urinal or against a tree. BOA hats? BOA goggles? How about BOA bindings because we all know how much effort it takes to click your heels in? These will be perfect to match those stupid BOA gloves. The only boots that might benefit with a BOA closure are small kids boots. Makes it easier for mom and dad to get them on and off for them.
Guess you’ve never tried it or you would realize everything you wrote is patently false and BOA is here to stay and it is superior to any buckle.
I think it's got a place, if it helps people with arthritis right on, but agree it's over extending with the gloves.
BOA is marketing gimmick crap
BOA sucks. It's just a gimmick made to sell more overpriced plastic crap. Pros don't use BOA. 4 buckles or nothing.
You shouldn’t have to tighten your last two buckles tight, if so you boots are probably not the correct size. Your first two near top of boot are what make the difference.
good point