Don't Blame Teachers Unions For Our Failing Schools
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Teachers unions: They're powerful, they're defensive, and they're stubborn. And if it seems their leadership places a premium on protecting its members -- above all other interests -- we should not be surprised, because protecting jobs and wages is what unions were created to do. And there's the rub, say critics who argue the unions are shielding too many teachers who do their jobs poorly -- teachers who should be replaced, for the good of the children. Indeed, so central is good teaching to good learning, some say it's the unions as presently constructed -- more than anything other factor -- that are undermining America's schools. But can it really be that simple? In a ranking of whom to blame for what's wrong in America's classrooms, do teachers unions really come before slashed budgets? Or crumbling infrastructure, broken homes and the influence of narcotics? Do bad teachers so outnumber good ones that the union represents a collection of educational misfits? The question comes down to a decision: do we need to reform the unions before we do anything else , and if we do, is that the fix that will once again make US public education the model system it once was?
For: Kate McLaughlin
For: Gary Smuts
For: Randi Weingarten
Against: Terry Moe
Against: Rod Paige
Against: Larry Sand
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When she replied that she didn't want any other schools than public schools she lost the debate. Say what you will. But if you don't want any competition it means you want to be a monopoly.
I understand your point, but a reasoning for only having public schools is that wealthy and powerful parents will ensure the quality of schools and be watchdogs for all the kids, thus being the mechanism for quality (rather than competition). It’s a tough problem and I see what you mean though.
Education should not be a competition. The vision must be uniform, and that is the equal opportunity education for all 🤷🏾♂️
A monopoly on anything is a bad thing when the government controls it.
Damn, i wish Milton Freedman was still alive to argue against the union. He would obliterate them.
P.S. The lady in the light blue is phony. You can almost fill it.
@@fetusimao7018 she's literally a leader who gets paid a 6 figure salary by the union
Time to abolish ALL public sector unions. Employees payed with taxpayer funds should be held accountable for the quality of their work & fired if they cannot measure up. Public employees shouldn't make any more than private sector counterparts.
If you don't think Unions are a big part of the problem, check out Success Charter Schools in Harlem NY. They are doing great and Teacher Unions are trying their best to tear them down.
*_BEST COMMENT in THIS VIDEO!_*
1:31:46 _"It's like getting a divorce from your wife that you never wanted to marry in the first place and you're still paying alimony."_
*_WOW! The IGNORANCE HEARD in a SINGLE SENTENCE_*
1:25:52 _"I believe a lot of the charter schools are for profit and I think unions keep the ideals of American values in our schools."_
History teaches us that "profit motive" is one of the foremost of all American "values". So, um, perhaps this teacher/union leader should go back to school....a charter school.
+TRUTH & SURTHRIVEL When you go to a job interview, and they ask you about your interests in the position do you say "I'm really only interested in the money."?
Gabriel Ross In all my life I've only ever been through 2 job interviews....when I was 16yrs old. Both jobs of which I eventually got laid-off from. Fortunately I learned at an early age how to fill the needs of others & offer them value in exchange for fair compensation. Thus I have always been self-employed & successful, NOT because of govt education (sadly I dropped out in the 10th grade & have never had any further formal education), instead I have been surrounded by successful people that refused to give me anything other than knowledge. No money, no loans, no hand-outs, but a swift kick in my ass & occasional words of commendation.
TRUTH & SURTHRIVEL You're evading the question. It can easily be rephrased. Did you ever hire anyone who said "I'm really only interested in the money?"
+Gabriel Ross Sure, why not? Its an honest end goal. The really important part is how they do their jobs.
On a side note, I work at a company with highly individualized salaries, which greatly rewards putting in extra effort. For that reason, as well as others, I am spending a lot of my free time studying all the technical skills required.... unlike my previous jobs, where I just sailed along. I have been offered the option of more money, and I am putting a lot of effort into getting that. Win-win
Gabriel Ross Yes. Why? Because they were usually hungry & desired to improve their financial situation. They were sick & tired of being poor or in 2 instances they were in need of higher pay to help their family members. Those 2 young men & 1 women still work for me & the woman is the best producer I have. The guys do well too.
(Sorry it took me so long to respond. I have 2 businesses to run. Thank you for the fair question.)
***** You hit the nail on the head. "Honesty". *_That_* is why I hired them when they were upfront with me about why the wanted to work for my company --- MONEY!
In addition to their other honest answers, they turned out to be trustworthy employees.
It's an easy solution- school vouchers. As Professor Moe said early in the debate, a $7500 a year voucher helped kids go to private schools which taught them more successfully than the public schools which cost 27k a year per student for an inferior education. Gradually introduce school vouchers and the problem will work itself out.
That doesn't make any sense. No school should be forced to accept any student. But vouchers would allow good students from middle class homes the ability to learn. Its not all or nothing. If it helps a good portion of kids, then its a good solution. Right now people are forced to pay taxes, even if they don't have kids, and its not fair that parents don't have the option of spending their money where they want. Those middle class kids are already paying more in taxes, and thus more of the burden for schools, so there is nothing unfair about that. Forcing the good middle class students to pay taxes to subsidize kids that schools don't want is unfair, as their kids have to suffer.
mdfouru:
Face it, some kids are born "wired wrong" whether being schooled privately or in a Union-Run Public school....they are not worth spending time or resources on in terms of erudite studies. Our public schools used to divert resources for dumb students in the form of vocational training.... a rare commodity these days.
Most Developed countries other than the USA (Germany included) pick the Lot at an early stage.
A Public,publicly funded Charter school or Private school here in the USA should be able to pick the Lot.
Teachers-Administration Unions place 1 priority:their wages,benefits and retirement,a failed enterprise for our youth.
Los Angeles County only uses 20% of its annual allotted budget of Billions that go directly to Students needs, the rest is spent on Outrageous Salaries for Administration/Teachers. Last time I recall,LA County school system is one of the worst performing (percentage of academic achievement);not just in the USA, but also among Developed Nations.
I'm going to guess that that superintendent that "works well with" the unions is a paid union stooge.
The motion itself kind of already says it all.
The union was supposed to improve education, the fact that they are having this debate means that the unions were useless as schools are failing.
If we hired and fired teachers soley based on student performance, can you imagine the turnover in neighborhoods that consistently did poorly. I think you would find that even the best of the best teachers would fail to significantly improve grades. In areas where social problems are the worst grades are almost always bad.
That’s why we should give parents vouchers. Then a teacher could go work at the private school in the poor neighborhood without the teachers union getting in the way
Here we are in 2021 and teachers unions have refused to return to the classroom.
*_WHO DO the TEACHER'S UNIONS REPRESENT?_*
1:08:28 & 1:30:12
*_IS IDENTIFYING GOOD TEACHERS IMPORTANT?_*
1:12:13 & 44:15
Blame everybody except the people running the schools and teaching the children. It's all parents' faults, it's society not giving enough funds to schools, it's not having smaller classrooms. Except charter schools have been shown to flourish, and many families cry out loudly for the right of school choice, where the money follows the children and parents choose the schools they want their children to attend. There are many great teachers in the broken system, but far too many have no incentive to be good teachers. A mediocre teacher who's stayed in the same district for several years gets paid far more than a new, amazing teacher who excites the students. Tie results and approval ratings to teachers' pay and you would be heading, at least to some small degree, in the right direction because I guarantee that students know which of their teachers suck at their jobs.
Competion works in a free market but not in education no no no 😁😁😁😁
Are you joking? You have to be. By FAR the best schools in America are expensive private schools that parents pay huge prices to enroll their children there. That's competition!
Its not knee jerk, it well thought out idea. Teachers and PARENTS are both to blame. Teachers have to learn to work with the cards they have been dealt. Teachers make more than ever, yet their performance is the worst than ever before. Teachers unions are to blame not all of it.
Judging teachers based on student performance is a terrible idea. In lower income neighborhoods, kids can be impossible to manage. They don't want to learn. They don't even want to be in the classroom and many times, they'll play hookie. When I was in college, one of my lab teachers did part time at a lower income school and she eventually gave up, got burnt out, because years of trying to get undisciplined preteens to sit down, shut up, and read, is practically impossible. It's no fault of hers. It's the parents, and the kids themselves. As the saying goes...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Don't curse the river for the horse not taking interest.
***** Agreed, and part of a teachers job is to instill the desire to learn in those they teach. Plus it would only take some very simple math to adjust teaching outcomes in low income areas for those who don't try or play hookie.
Koltiras Rip if the teacher can't reach and teach those kids then they shouldn't be there. Anyone can teach a willing kid but it takes a real teacher to motivate a child to want to learn.
***** I agree 1000%. Lower qualified teachers shouldn't be forced to teach at a level above their competence. They should leave the difficult jobs to the most qualified teachers.
Koltiras Rip they judge student performance relatively, not absolutely. For example how well does the student do in test scores compared to previous year or to the average kid in the area
and yeah its the fault of parents and students and society
+mdfouru Gonna support vegaskidd to a certain degree. It is not expected for the good machines to have equal performances to the broken down pre-WW2 lump of junk. I really do not like the analogy being used mainly because of support of the assumption that student in poor economic conditions have a lack of potential. If you have ever watched a movie like Coach Carter or Freedom Writers, you would see that it takes the right type of teacher to get through to the children. You have the ability to compare a teacher in Oakland to a teacher in Compton. Both teach in low-income and higher crime neighborhoods. By your logic, neither of the students have any potential and the teachers should not have any significant performance differences. However, humans are unique and do not possess the same traits. One of those teachers will be more effective and keep their job. The other should get fired.
Teaching is a high stress and very difficult profession. The high performing teachers should definitely be rewarded for their work. However, unions want to keep teachers based on who has been paying their union dues the longest. That is a corrupt system that should be fixed.
It doesn't require ( another) study to see the arrogance of unions.
I believe that what children need to learn in every grade, including 6-12, is the problem; and perhaps the regulations prevent schools and teachers from teaching in a way that is modern and teaches every subject that children need to know. Why else wouldn't children want to go to PUBLIC SCHOOLS by junior high school or high school level? Why should the district of the school matter (whether poor or middle class children)? All PUBLIC SCHOOLS should be allowed to follow the top standards and receive enough resources to do so! What is the problem besides the education itself AND the approach to our children of this year 2016 in our PUBLIC SCHOOLS?
I'm from L.A and the charters here are horrible, at least majority of them. So while they talk about having choice here, the truth is I can choose from a bad public school or two poorly managed charter schools nearby that won't even provide books bc they are underfunded.
If we are to assume that teacher's unions are mainly interested in the welfare of children we should assume that the auto worker's unions are mainly interested in the purchasers of automobiles. This only makes sense if you are willing to believe that the teaching profession has somehow self selected to be made of the most morale and upstanding characters.
If one of the people responsible for you in the school "bully'd" you in any respect I don't think that's right. As far as them making reccomendations to your parents, that is their perogative. It's up to your parents to make the decision. As far as school lunches I do agree that healthy options should be put on the menu and allow the parents to decide what they want their kids to eat. What I'm saying is we have a good framework with public school's but we DO need to update and upgrade the system
The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”
Government collective bargaining means voters do not have the final say on public policy. Instead their elected representatives must negotiate spending and policy decisions with unions. That is not exactly democratic - a fact that unions once recognized.
When will we address the effect of the home environment and parental care and involvement in education.
I hope I never haver to take another sociology class again...
I think it is much higher than 5 percent: bad teachers...that is a conservative estimate- I would think it is around 90 percent.
In any other arena conservatives would blame the individual for their own outcome...in the case of unions, it's not the kids fault for failing, it's the unions fault for causing the kids to fail.....unions don't cause kids to fail....5% bad teachers can't cause the failures we see in our schools today.
The problem with our system is not the teachers. We've always had good and some bad teachers, the ratio is probably the same now as ever. We spend way too much money, I agree, but we need to attribute the problems to the right sources. Teachers unions can be both good and bad for kids. We need to apply a scientific approach to problem solving and not let ugly politics,emotions & ego get in the way of systemic solutions. Most teachers are quality educators, they are not in it for the money !
All we have to do is give parents vouchers. Then we would see if parents like what teachers unions are doing
Teachers are the same now as they were 30 yrs ago when American kids scored closer to the top of academic indexes. Would YOU let one bad teacher out of 20 in your school ruin your education ? Teachers Unions give teachers a sense of security, it's not all about pay rate. Teachers under constant stress over things they have no control over make them less creative and effective. Unions are not perfect, but they are not the source of the problem...way off. I agree w/ you about parents however !
If kids were getting straight As
They’d be singing from the rooftop how they are the reason why
44:00 'When school children start paying union dues, that 's when I'll start representing the interests of school children.'
-Albert Shanker, teacher's union boss
The teachers union does not recruit teachers. So what kind of graduates do the recruiting agencies recruit to become teachers who naturally become union members. Please recruit recruit highest achievers and holistically developed broadmined persons . They will be excellent teachers and excellent members of the unions . Stop blaming the unions they are not a panacea for all social ills
Great quote. Thanks
Does anyone think that weaker or fewer teachers unions will attract better teachers ? Hell no...it will make quality people run to other sectors of work.
Private school kids almost always outperform their public counterparts,but private schools are running downhill compared to the uphill slog public schools must endure. Just think about the hurdles of a public vs. private school.Think about the social and economic factors...come to think about it, public school teachers probably deserve more money than private for degree of difficulty. We don't need to fix our teachers, we need to fix the system, & throwing in more money is not the solution.
Charter schools are still government schools. Give parents the power to send their kids to any school they want, public or private
The Teacher's Unions that don't want charter schools to exist says it all. Money before children. The teacher's unions are NOT to blame?
The unions are to blame for a lot of things
"the best schools are magnet schools" is one of the worst arguments 0:56:00. Magnet schools only accept the best students, so of course they will perform well. The union teachers in magnet schools can literally do nothing, and the students will teach themselves.
which I don't personally think would be possible without a government overseeing that this is done right. It's not perfect in any respect, but it's the best that we have and utopia is not for this world.
I didn't address them because I'm only allowed 500 characters per post. I addressed them in my last comment though. People being taught political or religious views in school is more prevelant in private and home schooling than it is in public schools. This is why the federal government needs to focus on our public schools and make sure that this kind of stuff is NOT allowed. They can't do this in private and home school. IMO public school needs to first be regulated correctly, then be mandatory
interesting debate. I suspect the unions are a significant factor but not the ONLY factor. I remain uncertain on this one because I really don't know, and don't know if it's even possible to know, how much % of the blame can be pinned on the unions or on other factors. Teachers are faced with more problems than ever before as a result of much in modern life that is simply more attention grabbing than the traditional school room setting. A teacher has to be super exceptional to begin to compete with all that. I admire ANY teacher who can stick the course these days but particular those relatively rare gifted teachers I had the good fortune to know back in school.
Gila Atwood Teacher's unions are not the ONLY factor but they are huge obstructionists.
Stress reduces job performance and creativity..money only motivates when the task is mechanical,repetitive & requires little problem solving.Unions can give teachers more freedom to motivate kids using creative techniques that teach them to think.Unions are not perfect of course,but blaming them is simply politics at its worst.Politics gets in the way of truth finding and solving problems for the benefit of the most people possible.The ratio of good to bad teachers is the same as 30 yrs ago !!
I agree, we need to find out what is going wrong on the ground level, not on political talk shows where politicians are spewing party platitudes for political points.
What`s most annoying about all these different debates is that everyone has different statistics. Since everyone can find one statistics that supports their view they should really be rendered useless unless they are done by objective sources and not more then 2 years old. Times change and so does statistics.
Did she really just equate the middle class with unions? Hilarious.
Rod Paige is not the best advocate for education-A sports coach who rose far beyond his abilities. He is the genius behind No Child Left Behind, which everybody--right, left, and center of the political spectrum agrees is a a failure. Most of it was abandoned in 2015.
Teachers unions about educating children like steelworkers unions care about making steel. They both want the least amount of productivity and the most pay
If the system is less unionized now than 30 yrs ago, why were student scores so much better 30 yrs ago when unions were much bigger ? Rediculous !
the union is the problem
That's an overly sinnacle view. Government doesn't run perfectly, this much is true. It doesn't mean that they should just sit on their hands and not even attempt to progress our society though. The government is not 100% effective, nor is it 100% ineffective.
You should stay away from terms like "sophistry" when your grammar is that terrible, sir.
I don't believe in "big governemt", I believe in smart government. I do have some libertarian beliefs myself as people should be allowed, in the end, to make their own decisions about what is right for them. First and foremost a person must be informed correctly though to MAKE an educated and well informed decision. This is why to me our education system should be transparant and well regulated to being 100% fact based and geared towards innovation and getting kids ready for the job market.
Teachers spend more time indoctrinating kids politically then teaching. The reading lists are awful. I agree, its not just teachers, its the school system. In fact, i think the principal needs to be included. If they can not make the students in their school learn, they must be fired. So must the teachers. If a salesperson did not make quota, they wouldn't say, oh I cna't be expected to control the customers. They would know they were fired.
The free market invisible hand is not the answer to ALL socioeconomic problems. The Laissez faire approach may serve well in some sectors, but education may be an exception. Lets not have a dogmatic ideologic approach to education, the most important social issue regarding Americas future. Lets get politics,opinion and ego out of it, and find out the true source of our problems.
VICTORY!
When did I say teachers should be pushing their political ideology in class? Politics don't belong in the classroom other than teaching kids what politics in America are so they can understand the point of view and ideology of both sides. That's all that happened in my school. If that story about the Texas school district is true that is something that is few and far between, especially in public schools. That's something that is far more prevelant in private and home schooled kids.
Don't democrats block everything
It’s ironic that the teacher couldn’t coherently answer any question and repeatedly went on long tangents about her irrelevant personal life experience (irrelevant to the questions answered). Would never want my kid having her as a teacher.
When the goal is to motivate people to work a tedious,repetitive, mechanical task quickly, ya,money can motivate. When it comes to creative thinking and new approaches to problems, money can be a hindrance. People feel too much pressure and are afraid to think outside the box, an important attribute for teachers. Wall Street paid their executives very well and I don't think the results were very good. Sometimes money can attract the wrong type for the job, teachers may be a perfect example.
How can you possibly compare between areas like ; Mississipi to areas like NY and Massachusettes, that is pure sophistry!!!
Unions can also make teachers better,under less stress with more ability to be creative in the classroom.
Charter schools are the solution to unions, charters are freedom.
Teacher unions are some of the issue
another thing Trump needs to fix !
You're right!
Now, do you have an opinion on the subject at hand?
I don't know what school they go to, they never did that in my school. Maybe it changed in the last 5 years.
There has been a lot of recent studies done on employee motivation,and money is only one component,it can be productive or counterproductive depending on desired outcome.Can you imagine what merit based pay would do to less desirable school districts,you would drive away the best teachers where they are needed the most.I believe the students coming into the schools bring a lot more problems with them on average than they did even 20 yrs ago,& that accounts for much of the performance issues.
well I think its pretty obvious that the crowd was stacked in favor of unions...Very Interesting debate though.
NickBigsmoke the Union got killed. What are you talking about?
Interesting how the first speaker for the affirmative side tried to compare education results between very unionized states and higly non-union states. Their second speaker then said there was no connection between collective bargaining rights and educational results. Well, which is it?
It's not the best system in theory, but in practice it's the best we have right now. That doesn't mean we don't try and improve it though. It's not like they force the food down your throat. If you want different food, pack your own damn lunch like I did for my entire public school career. Not every person is going to bully you in school, that's a dramatic over-exageration, and anyway their will be people just like them when you get out of school so it's a good place to learn how to deal w/ ppl.
The problem with this debate is they link unions with student achievement. I think many more variables exist. Maybe the unions are irrelevant. Correlation does not imply causation.
When evaluating teachers we need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. That can be diificult when comparing different school districts w/ different types of students. We also want to avoid teaching just to pass a test. We need to measure individual progress. I agree, we should weed out teachers that are in the wrong profession, but lets not repel good teachers in the process.
Though I do think along with the general knowledge you should learn in public school their SHOULD be extracurricular classes that are offered that is geared more heavily toward certain fields. We need to be teaching our kids earlier on in life what it takes to push your field forward and that work ethic is of utmost importance. Perhaps even internships once a child reaches a certain age so once they hit "working" age they've already hit the ground running.
Couldn't Agree more.
That is why you hear teachers harp on college education, they want to pass the problem on to someone else.
That joke is turrrrible.
The to blame for education costs
Has he? I couldn`t find any prof that he has.
Unions are pretty bad but they are at most a small fraction of the overall problem.
don't blame the teachers. blame the students lack of incentive. pay
students for a's and b's in maths and science. have ever changing tough
test. test should be given by national testers and graded on a national
level, with no review or preview at the local level and no grading
curve. this is a national interest so the funds should come from
national coffers.
Are you saying teachers are worse today than they were 30 yrs ago when American students scored much better on most academic indexes,and teachers/unions are the reason for this fall off ?...I simply do not think teachers or unions are at fault. I'm not saying unions are all good, but they can benefit the education process as well.Poor union teachers do get fired by the way. Some level of teacher security is important for kids and teaching in general. Also...More distractions for kids these days.
Oh, yes! Many teacher's are like any other field that gets slack in productivity.
At 1:46, the side for the motion laughs after Terry Moe gets a little emotional. It almost seem as though they are laughing at his emotion and it wasn't the first time they were apathetic. They also barely talk about the actual students. Their focus in this debate reflects what people think; They only care about teachers.
Most common drug of choice for Americans; alcohol, tobacco......u name it.
the voters were so side skewed
Isn't this like trade unions
56:17 Magnet schools are successful because they select for those students who have positive elements in their personal infrastructure. In other words, you or a family member has to be motivated enough to try and get you into that school. Those schools are better because the higher quality of support the students have from their families. Magnet schools are special if they are limited in number and have no guarantee of admission. If every school is a magnet school, then no school is a magnet school.
57:02 Touché.
this debate looks like red herring.reasons for schools failing lie deeper in u.s society.the fact that there is ambitions to teach nonsense in public schools is symptomatic.your school system is in decay and failure like the very fabric of your nation.greetings from finland with world best schools and results.we export education and teachers worldwide.
59:00 That's why charter schools do better on average. Statistics can be very misleading.
bigchunk1 59:55
I'm pretty confident that i'm more intelligent than you, sir!
Now where exactly is my grammar off??
The idea that public school is nothing but Socialist Liberal Indoctrination Propaganda I couldn't disagree more. It made the rest of your statements seem overzealous. NOONE is forcing kids to eat the school lunch. You always have the option to pack lunch from home if you don't like the choices at the school. I was never bullied by the administration or teachers and didn't know anyone who was. The bullying came from other student's, but that is a normal part of public education.
after recently going through public education. i say teachers should design educational courses, not government bodies or administrations. without unions teachers have little incentive to actually work. especially in highschools with very violent and aggressive teenagers that only get worse in poor and less educated areas.
unions doesn't provide the incentive for teachers to work. we shouldn't even have public sector unions
Right 'cause this common core bs is the worst! I re taught my Sun how we were taught math the right and common sense way
1:45. Disinterested means impartial. I think he meant uninterested. C'mon now
It has multiple meanings
so your a teacher or your family are teachers, huh?
the notion that charter schools are better or worse than public schools in terms of improving test scores is a huge debate. Most nationwide independent studies show that there is no difference between the two in terms of improving test scores. There are many specific charters which do significantly better than their local counterpart, but then there are many which do significantly worse
There are so many arguments both for charters and against charters. And there are so many variables. For example, although charters have greater community outreach, they also have smaller or non-existant gyms and libraries. And although some charters may improve test scores, perhaps these scores are improved at the expense of other subjects? After all, its no secret that many charters do just that: prepare students for test
I think the debate should have stayed out of the charter debate altogether. As there are thousands of independent studies proving one is better than another and vice versa, and many of the claims made about charters are so easily arguable but due to lack of time the union members arent going to venture into that
Also bringing up charter schools is a very smart but wicked strategy for anti- unionists. As most people, including the very educated ones, tend to falsly assume charters are better than public schools and that theyre like private schools. So the audience may be ill-advised on the subject
I did a survey on my campus and every single one student I asked thought that a charter school is a private school and that it is aloot better than a public school. Reality is much different
Note that iam and will probably always remain undecided whether or not charters are better or worse than publics, simply because both sides have alot of proof so its all a matter of which studies should you believe. Personally, i think it doesnt matter. The charters just make parents feel better because they won the lottery (sometimes lottery to failure if its a bad charter)
I would invite one of the gentlemen against teachers, teach only one week a class of 40 hipper students no matter what age, then we'll talk.
Unions are the night mare of charter schools and their advocates.Teachers have no rights in a charter school, they are on the mersi of the school principal and his/her group of favorites. 90% of the time a teacher can hold a job if he/she is liked by this group of people, there is nothing to do with teacher's performance. It seems incredible, but it is true.
Teachers are so afraid to talk about it even with their friends, who wants to loose a job?
Schools are not failing because of teachers, schools are failing because they took away all the authority from teachers and put it in the hand of parents and administrators. Parents wont their children to have good grades, they argue with the teacher for the grades, they intimidate the teacher, they complain about the teacher's performance to the principal who is afraid of the low sued; so as you see is a vicious circle. At the end who is the looser? the student, good grades but not knowledge. So, do not blame teachers, blame the educational system. Too many leaders and few( workers=
teachers).
Amy Cordesky I cannot agree with you more on your second point. Moreover, It is never the teachers fault. People need to stop being so idealistic and expect teachers to be messiahs from heaven magically touching kids and changing their lives. Part of education, is being able able to learn and listen from "bad" teachers as well as the good. This is one of the worst qualities of US cultures as well. Any non-american parent would blame his child for bad performance in school, while many americans would pity their child and blame the teacher.
+Amy Cordesky "It seems incredible, but it is true." Not really that is how most of the labour market works, it only seems incredible, and incredible unfair at that, if you are completely protected from responsibility from your actions, like unionized teachers are. The rest of us have to perform, and to get along well with both our bosses as well as our customers.
Btw, the topic isnt blame teachers, its whether teachers unions should be blamed. Ofcause those teachers work for their unions share the blame too.
+Artyom Arty now thats so true i no alot of foreigners and i never see them cry to the teacher at all im a parent with 3 boys and a wife 12yr married and they are doing great but when i have meeting with there teacher i do not cry and bitch to them i just say what els can i do to help and the teach will sit down with me and show me some things that i can do with my sons to help them do better and it work so for all you parents that scream at the teacher being disrespectful and ignorant your not hepling at all you need to grow up and take responsibility my wife always email's the teacher to see what is going and how there doing and we have a great relatioship and good understanding with are teacher and if you can just be patient and work with the teach you will see it get better but if you continue to be mad and go at the teacher then nothing will get don peace and god bless
***** The reason we have unions though is to protect teachers who are being blamed/harassed/underpaid/targeted/etc
So I would say the topic is, sort of, "is it the teachers fault"
Artyom Arty
Underpaid public teacher? Considering how overpaid they are, there can't be many of those..
As for the rest of those things, that is the responsibility of their bosses or the justice system. Unions are required for that.
Unions do have a role in a free society, though unions like the Teachers Union have far overstepped those bounds and turned into an entrenched aristocracy. Who protects the children or parents against the union abuses? None.
combatitive isn't a word....
9 thumbs up for me and nothing for you. End of story.
Only 53 views. Sad.
Sounds a lot like not all unions are the same.. some do care about the children and others don't. That sounds exactly like any other "group".