Honestly who cares about meta at this point? I just wanna run dungeons, make friends, hit 60 and just kill some bosses and pvp. I don’t care about my parses anymore, I don’t care about speed running, I just wanna have some fun at a casual pace
@@amberleaf42069 Because they're intolerable elitists... It's about efficiency more than fun for them. Many people just want to have a good time and chill. If you want to be in a guild that brings 30 warriors and a handful of healers, go for it. no thanks for me...
and in reality it doesnt happen. i allways had a guild as an enh shaman, even if my 95 parses wouldnt be top of dps, we were clearing content like everyone else
@@wolololer It absolutely does happen. There will be guilds that exist that are more casual but to say gatekeeping doesn't happen is entirely false. Gatekeeping happens A LOT and it is only going to be worse this time around because everyone knows exactly what the meta is now right from the start.
This tier list is why classic needs changes. I would love a vanilla start with the opening patch for tbc with the portal locked and the level cap at 60 with Blood Elf and Draenai unlocked. I think that would be a lot of fun.
Honestly, as a hunter in the first classic, I had sooo much fun in those 2 weeks of preTBC patch. I was pumping, and my melee weave rotation was so much fun. If blizzard ever did that, it would be a dream come true for me.
Just remember that if you play in a raid with 18 warriors that you're going to have to rank up to max in PvP in order to get any gear, because you're going to see about 5-6 good weapons drop in raid throughout the entire expansion and you all want 2 of them.
This video reinforces my decision to spend the next year pvping and preparing for TBC. I don't want to go to raid every week to spend 100+ gold on consumes and boons to help funnel gear to like 3-4 warriors.
That's cheap, as a healer in Naxx consume costs were pushing 700g a week with flasks, dark runes, mana pots and resistance pots. Bots ruined the economy
@@theperfectbeing So how do you get the gold for this stuff weekly? Never played classic/vanilla but from what I've heard gold was pretty hard to come by, right?
@@ChryI He just buy gold like they all do most of the time.. Classic player are the king at destroying their own game experience. Most buy gold, were running gdkp, gate keeping kings and all for a game they describe playing because it's "chill"
@@ChryI I had a pally alt who I got full raid gear for just to AOE farm in DM east doing lasher farms and jump runs. I also had all the top resistance gear recipes on my druid that I used flipping mats for profit. Eventually I leveled a mage whos only purpose was to do Mara AOE farms. It was a lot of time, since I had nothing better to do at the time (lockdowns) i was spending probably 2 to 3hrs a day farming at around 100g an hour once I got really good at it but early on it was less than half of that. It was the only option because the bots and GDKP ruined the economy. At one point the best mana pots were 20g a stack and dark runes were 8g to 10g each. I was burning through probably 20 dark runes and 40 mana pots per Naxx run. That's not counting the flasks, elixirs, repair bills, etc. So you either bought gold or farmed like a maniac on non raid nights.
I mean the raids are a breeze. Any guild that wouldn’t let off meta raiders in their raid are cringey unless you’re really trying to competitively speedrun.
That is his fun, he likes to play the optimal way... if you want to play the "fun" way, well join a guild that raids 3 days to clear MC with all the stupid ret paladins in there... if that is your idea of fun that is.
Resto shamans DO NOT have to chug mana flasks. I mained one from MC through ICC; just take 1 flask and then use normal mana pots / demonic runes. You will be fine (as long as your kill times aren't absolute garbage, but them you shouldn't be chugging flasks because the raid obviously isn't that comitted).
Also came here for this, I was an rsham in a semi-competitive "speed" running guild, ~50 min naxx clear, and did not have to rechug flasks. The only time this is necessary is speedrunning where you cut healers.
The only thing I’d change about this list is putting priest into S tier on the horde side, it’s the only viable tank healer on horde making them quite necessary for any horde comp
Yea, it's like we aren't playing the same game as this guy. I remember the raid demand for priests, their healing output, the amount of priests taken for progress and the fastest speedruns on warcraftlogs. They are objectively S tier through and through.
I did enjoy the video Sarthe so I apologize ahead of time if this feels critical of you. the video is kind of self defeating in that you say play what ya want but then spend the bulk of the video perfectly illustrating why people should in fact not play what they want . for me the only reason to login and play this game is the raiding and if I am gonna be passed over every time I try and play it defeats the whole purpose of even logging in.
I get what what you’re saying. In terms of the tone of it. But also I think it’s “play what you want, but know what you’re getting yourself into” lol. I think when it comes down to it classic is not for everyone, really. New systems, changes, came about for a reason, largely this experience, for many, is a painful reminder of those factors. I think it’s good to start with the reminder first to make a more sober choice.
@@benkelly7182 Exactly this, Its more about saying hey you should play what you will have the most fun with but just know that if it doesn't conform to the meta you will have a harder time finding groups for raid content. Its about being informed that this is a thing that exists and there is no fixing it, short of blizzard balancing classes which will probably not happen at least not in this fresh relaunch.
Prot paladin actually has insane threat gen in raids, because spamming Greater Blessing of Kings/Might on the 20 warriors will generate thousands of threat per global. Might try to run one idk
it is, check out Askalon's videos of pala tanking all vanilla raids and bosses. he brings like 900 reagents and spam buffs the warriors (the most of the same class in the raid) with kings to get top of the threat Patchwerk: ua-cam.com/video/oCTpb2JYEio/v-deo.html
just listening to the "popping flasks" technique and the crowd pummeler farm bs, makes me shake my head and picture punching nochanges peeps in the mouth. its such a negative sales tactic for getting people to play fresh, so many little inconvenience pain points... fix item stacks too ffs, so dumb. who TF reminisces about having no bag space? I've been kinda tricked into the hype, and as the day approaches I keep thinking to myself WTF am I doing? I really don't want to do this again... killing time waiting for Panda to possibly bait me into playing again.
Just join a non sweat guild and your fine. Most guilds will prefer a active feral, shadow or what ever over a random warrior who will stop playing after a month. Played a shadow in 2019 and had alot of fun while being middle of the pack
Y’all got SoD for balanced classic. Era players have waited for fresh for multiple years. If you don’t like it don’t play. I’m sure the next classic launch will be some season of whatever. Let us have our era fresh!
@@theperfectbeing Cool so they couldn't do it with SoD, but y'all wanna let them try with era and change it permanently? What could possibly go wrong!?
As someone who main tanked through Naxx as a fury prot warrior and with a feral OT. I can say feral tanks are incredibly useful to bring.. leader of the pack alone gives a dramatic increase to threat gen for your MT. An additional innervate for healers, extra brez, huge health and armor pools make them great for certain hard hitting mobs. Honestly if you can bring one you should. Idk what Sarthe is talking about here.
Im just glad for dual-spec. As it means i can level as a Prot Pally, gear one out in dungeons at end game - and just respec for raids. But still keep Prot as my dungeon farm spec. Very thrilled
Funny how wow classic players try to make a non competitive game competitive They cant hang in real pvp games so they gatekeep n easy game If the boss dies at the end of the day, you get the loot. Doesnt matter if u killed it in 45 seconds vs 30 seconds
they are competing vs themselves (which they find fun) why are you so negative about that? nobody cares about loot in vanilla except to get more dps = which is the goal for a lot of people
@@fonsterruta163 lies everytime Ive played there's ALWAYS loot drama And they're not competing against themselves. There's this thing called parsing where you compete against others in your class / other guilds
@@Peetskeet yes where did i say there was no drama? its obviously gonna happen. and my comment about that they compete with themselves was meant as they in a group. english is not my first language so sorry if u didnt understand. so what i meant was that they want to compete only with the best of the best, which is what makes it interesting
@@fonsterruta163 If English isn't your first language, why logic isn't? xD You wrote this "nobody cares about loot in vanilla except to get more dps = which is the goal for a lot of people"
@@Demha96 yeah but peoepl wh ogatekeep meta in a 20 year old game thats super easy raids make things not for for those of us who actually want to have fun
OP is correct. He’s not just “telling the truth”, he’s using phrases like “you cannot bring this class” which is perpetuating the gatekeeping. Because you can bring it and still succeed.
Love that you are covering classic fresh again man. I love your content, always no bullshit straight to the point, yet presented in a really fun/easy way to watch. Look forward to seeing more of Sarthe in fresh 😊
Dude doesn’t know ANYTHING about Resto Druids. No AOE heals? Really? Tranquility. Only utility is Fairy Fire? Wrong. We also have the only battle rez (Rebirth) and were needed in Classic to cast Innervate when the priests inevitably go OOM.
Don’t know what raids you play with but I did all content in classic vanilla and we had some memes specs, we only had about 7 warriors and 4 rogues, left room for a lot of other classes. Groups I joined preferred to have fun people to raid with rather than perfect meta
Exactly i kidna dont even understand why so many ppl tlak about this "gatekeeping" i played enh shaman during classic and never had a problem finding groups or a guild
@@wolololer It gets bad when you deal with sweaty guilds. I mained a priest and on a number of occasions got in fights with the other officers because I would use PWS or renew. Their fear was it would push off a world buff off a melee or tank but all they had to do is not use every single possible consume (juju giving 40ap lol what) but instead thought it was more reasonable to forbid priests/druids from using pws, renew, rejuv or regrowth. This meant using ONLY downranked flash heal/healing touch spam all night long, which was only doable if you burned through Dark runes every single cooldown and a couple dozen mana pots. "So you want me to spend 600g a week on dark runes, so that we can kill a boss we have on farm 2 secs faster (i ran the numbers)...yeah, that's not f$ckin happening, so either kick me from the guild (losing their best healer) or tell the warriors to stfu". Same as I refused to innervate mages on fights like 4 horseman or sapphiron when being the feral OT.
@@chrisdavidson2810 yeah, incase you don't know Sarthe was in charge of a few wow classic wowhead guides back in SOD too and he was known for being very elitist but in a way that taught others how to do so. He was in groups that were speedrunning gnomergon in under an hour so it's clear he cares about efficiency
Speaking as a former Classic hunter guru. Spell power scaling with serpent sting doesn’t go as high as we’d like. Obvious reasons are the best spell power trinkets, weapons, rings and neck will always go to your casters and healers first. The best we could hope for is to melee weave with improved Immolation Trap from the Survival tree. Sadly though, likely most Hunters will be pressured to play MM in order to benefit the Rogues and Warriors. Hunters are more like support DPS in Classic: with TSA, Traps, Tranq, Wing Clip spam (with Nightfall), chain pulling trash for faster clears, solo farming for Tribute buffs, Arcane Crystals, etc. Hunter is some of the most fun in the world of Classic. But it’s not all about the big numbers on your Details add on. It’s what you bring to your team as a whole, both inside the raid and out.
@@sevom89walker86 flying mounts, world separated into 5 zones away from the main content. scaled dungeons and raids. reputation grinds, dailies, all classes are viable everywhere... yeah hard pass retail andys.
Rejuvenation with 8/8 T2 on druid is close/beats it it, but that requires a bunch more set up, and I think priest tier also has a renew set bomus so that gets stronger too
i think the biggest problem tier lists like this have is there is no defining what each tier is. This video completely lacks context of how far of a gap there is between each of the tiers. The simple truth is that warriors are about 2-3x as strong as most other DPS classes, Rogues are about 2x as strong. Fire mages are about 2x as strong after BWL and everything else is relatively close with maybe the exception of like Enhance and Ret basically being on the very bottom of that list as they are very heavily RNG dependent. Ferals start out decent if your willing to do the degenerate stuff that ferals do but fall off pretty quickly as they don't scale as well with gear, they are similar to hunters in this case. A feral is better then an Ele especially early on. Ele's unfortunately suffer from serious mana issues and a ton of bosses have abnormally high nature resistance. The nature resistance problem is a problem that unfortunately plagues Ele for the majority of the game. It's not until Naxx that you get into a situation where most of the bosses don't have abnormally high nature resistance.
@@shadowreapertwo are you fucking stupid ? you dont play frost spec, its arcane spec but you use frostbolt . frost spec is pvp spec, just because you use frost bolt doesnt mean it frost spec, it is arcane spec . fire mage is still better than frost spec because frost spec is pvp.
I’ve played holy priest through Naxx multiple times. Never once has a pally come even close to my healing output. Holy priest is the best healer in the game.
@@Kyte2261 I've been through Naxx on holy priest and pally, I think the issue is that if you have a pally healing you, you'll never have to worry about being healed. Holy pally can keep any tank alive through anything and never go OOM. priest is good and you can do insane heals, but it's completely DPS reliant as you can oom pretty easily if you're not stacked with consumables or a pocket druid. Pally and Shaman are the kings of healing just because they're so powerful and can keep tanks alive with ease, while also providing arguably some of the most important buffs in the game. As someone who's played both through naxx and just pally in vanilla, It's very clear why he'd say Hpal is the best, because it clearly is, and is on a completely different level. This is someone who has over 150 days on their /played for both Hpal and their priest from 2019.
I do naxx 3 times per week, this guy has no idea about power of prayer heal and renew it seems. Decent priest would easly pass good paladin. Only cons about priest heal, too much mana consuming.
@@Walpurian yeah that's what he said in it. First: Healing output means absolutely nothing, any good wow player who's played more than a year knows that if you're comparing healing output, that means you don't know the healing role at all. I have, combined, about 480 in game days on healers across retail and era, and one of the thing that us veterans laugh at the most is when people compare healing numbers, because then the following remark is (yeah but 70% of that is overhealing). Second: Pallys provide several times more value. They can heal tanks and keep them up, usually able to pocket 1-2 tanks depending on gear and skill level, making the tanks near invincible. They also provide insanely powerful buffs. Third: Pallys never OOM if you're a good pally. I think that's what he's referring to. If you're playing as a pally and you're healing, your tanks never have to worry, your other supports never have to worry, and your team knows they'll be doing more damage. If you're on a priest, everyone knows that when an AoE hits they'll be fine, but the tanks are more cautious. Of course, this means nothing if you have a really good team, because a team of resto druids spamming healing touch will also be able to heal Naxx if they have the best DPS in the game.
Sarthe love your content but I feel that most of your outlook applies more to speed runs than anything else - people running with 50% of the optimal buffs, consumes and class stacking can still clear all content. I cleared every boss in the game in midcore guilds of people who were skilled but not sweaty during the patch when it was current content. We had druids casting hots because people weren't fully world buffed and consumed and didn't need to be, mostly warriors for dps but not something absurd like 25 of them and it was...fine. I mean it took longer but it was fine. I think that your'e absolutely right about anything less than 25 warriors being suboptimal but the game is easy enough to allow a lot of suboptimalness.
I ran in a dad guild in 2019 (even though I was 20) and had a great time. Everything was fun and we even cleared 9/13 of Naxx before people burnt out. Best gaming time of my life
A holy priest can absolutely keep a tank alive on their own, I know because I have done it, from MC to Naxx, but pally absolutely fails to keep raids from dying to raid wide damage. That is why priests are mainly assigned to raids while pallys are assigned to tanks because it is all they can effectively do
Resto Druid in full tier 3 does have unlimited mana so will be fun to see them healer carry in naxx at the end their hots have a very high healing power co-efficiency also so they tick for 2k+
I played Warrior and Mage in Vanilla. 15 years later I started classic and rolled… a warrior and a mage lol. This time around I m going hunter and priest just because I want something totally different
Even without world buffs (which we will have for the 1st mc) a good warrior with close to prebis will still dumpster every other class with decent kill times
No they won't, I've seen this play out many times after wipes in Naxx, the fire mages and rogues actually catch them. Without the additional crit and attack speed, the rage isn't refilling fast enough. Rogues are less dependent on AA swings (which scale hardest with world buffs). Go look up "No world buff rankings P5" and look at the charts, mages win out and in P6 the pull ahead even further.
In 2019 classic I was in a naxx speed running guild and we have the best time on our server in the upper 40min mark. Not a single shaman(myself a shaman) was chugging flasks for 2k mana.
If you can pass the dps threshold to lower the time of boss fights then you never have to do it but if youre in a progression guild trying to push for speed it becomes a lot more likely because teh fights extend that extra 30 secs and going OOM could mean a wipe.
obviously if you're speedrunning Naxx, you'll never need to chug flasks, because you won't OOM. This is WoW 101, I'm surprised you even commented that with how braindead that comment is lmao
@@Jacknorrington if you have to click and unclick a distilled flask because your dps is dogshit and you're running oom the problem is the DPS and not your mana stores. This goes for no world buffs as well, still don't go oom with mana pots/runes.
You don't need to use that flask of distilled wisdom exploit as a shaman. Not if you are playing even semi-normally anyways. You also don't only cast chain heal as a resto shaman. That's wrong. You utilize multiple ranks of your heals to ensure you don't oom. People don't know how to play shaman. it's crazy.
Agreed but that's all healing classes and they'll just make you depend on dark runes while being horribly mana inefficient with costly spells. Healing meters are dumb anyway because it's a zero sum game that encourages sniping and not carrying about raid mana efficiency.
@@radenkovic2856 They're only not going oom because they are relying on very expensive dark runes. Which is a stupid crutch propping up a bad playstyle. Also kill times are dependent on dps, so if dps is lacking then suddenly the make or break point is the healers mana.
As someone that has a rank 4 parse in the world in BWL as a resto sham (and yes i know healing parses are a meme) he is not actually wrong. Unless you are running 8piece t1 which is only good in phase 1 you are only going to hit chain heal 99% of the time. Yes you will alternate between between rank 1 and rank 3 chain heal using rank 1 the majority of the time but that doesn't change the fact they are using chain heal the vast majority of the time. Chain heal is simply more efficient if you are healing anything beyond 1 single target. yes, you can down rank healing wave in single target situations specifically but you will never out heal or out snipe a priest healer in a single target scenario anyways so it doesn't really matter.
i played feral tank on era for 2 years is not true they need pummel at everytime however you need hit gear from aq40 when you got those hit item you threat is great and mace from wb or aq40 naxx never lost threat after 2 years of feral playing 2 feral tank each week.
With how laughably easy the raids are in the classic era who even cares about the meta. Its not like you can realisticly fail to complete a raid, so might aswell just play for fun.
priests provide much less value than a good Hpal priest. Hpal has a higher skill ceiling and are much much much more important and valuable if you have a really good Hpal. I have over 100 days on /played for a priest and Hpal and I can tell you that Hpal is much more valuable than any priest is
@Ryan-yc4rk most groups do 3-4 health, 2 resto, and 3 priests. At least, this is coming from someone with probably more play time per alt I have than you have in total.
@@Ryan-yc4rki mean he is completely right healing is irrelevant your healer should be doing damage as much as possible because the content can be done with your monitor off. What value then do you want from your healers that would be doing more damage speed the fight up. Priest have nothing pallies have salve and buffs the gap is enormous.
Alot of people do not even care about a boss they have killed 500 times in 20 years, PVP is where its at, and world pvp. Spriest, Lock, Rogue, Mage, Druid, Hunter, Ele shaman All very good at world pvp Warrior is dumpster in pvp, unless you have a healer to follow you, but onces healer goes oom its over anyways for warrior. SO take these tier lists with a grain of salt.
You forgot insect swarm on resto... also NS healing touch is the biggest instant heal in the game. Resto druids are amazing. The reason raids only bring one or 2 is bc their hots dont stack from multiple druids. Also combat rogues are on top of dps until execute phase. So warriors perform better than rogues on bosses with higher hp.
Sarthe I think you should have put your focus on only MC for now since this is fresh. Then create new tier lists as the game moves on. That way you dont end up with the confusion between ranking specs that are good early vs late. Like you placed fire mage based on their early stats but most other specs based on their endgame stats etc.
Pretty based list except mages & locks do like 15 to 20% more damage than hunters, are stacked more often, vital for speed runs, great utility, and have top 2 AoE profiles for mega cleave. Sarthe prob just hunter bias but you bring a few for buffs & tranq which is C tier at best
The problem with loading a bunch of warriors is you are very inefficient with loot. If you make your raid more balanced, very rarely do you DE loot and there is less loot crying (not completely gone). Speed clears might be fun, but the iron of a speed clear is that it takes your 5-6 hours of preparation just to get the buffs only to shave 2 hours off a raid time. It is literally more time efficient to just do a mixed raid comp, get a competent raid leader, and make use of all the loot instead of bottle necking bis loot to 20 plus warriors.
Worst part about vanilla is if you’re not playing warrior or priest you’re not playing right in the eyes of most. And they can’t balance the game cause people complain about good changes for some reason.
it depends so hard on the player. me playing an ele/enhanc hybrid build i pump hard dps even when the fight goes long. yes warlocks and rogues getting me but most of the time im in the top 3 dps.
In SOM you could use serpent sting, but it wouldn't do a lot of damage, and you'd end up going oom way too fast if you used it. If you're speed running, or have a better raid group than I did, then you can get away with using it for the parse, but other than that, it's probably not going to be as important as using the mana on aimed shot.
theyre really good and mana efficient, but if you're in a good raid group it won't matter. The point of playing pally is so you never run out of mana, you're constantly buffing the team and helping provide value with seals, and the team is staying alive. During the 2019 classic release, priests and resto druids were seeing more play because there were more people minmaxing and killing bosses in 45 seconds, before healers even had a change to OOM. I'm also playing holy priest, but if you're going with a good group/guild, then you don't need to go pally because you probably won't OOM before the fight is over if you choose another healer, but if you're going more chill/relaxed, then yeah go Hpal
"While levelling" a good enhance tank can tank every raid. Sure they typically need to get raid gear by healing or dpsing first but you can 100% tank the whole expansion. Also serpent sting does scale on spellpower. Always did in classic. Still not great but you can be certain ill do it anyways.
Sounds like they should just remove world buffs for one to bring warrior down to a normal level, and for two to make the bosses slightly longer fights because the removed the Dbuff Limit
@@AaronVanAlstine-o9u they are 20g in SoD because of multiple changes they did. They implemented the change where you can get a black lotus off any high level herb and SoD doubled the amount of materials that you get when gathering. So unless they also put these changes into fresh they are absolutely not going to be 20g.
I want to play Rogue, but im already thinking how there is a lack of tanks so i need to roll Warrior so i can tank dungeons while leveling and to be able to farm preBis gear :DD. Warrior is bad in 1v1 WPvP that is the only problem and slow to lvl.
@ idk about wpvp cause im a bitch and play pve server only But imo leveling warrior is super easy as you can either tank dungeons all way to 60 or do hamstring kiting while questing which helped me a ton trading 1-1 hits
When you play warrior you not have to be a tank. I always play warrior every expansion and i never tank. Arms pvp and fury pve (depends on expansion, sometimes Arms in pve and Arms in pvp)
you don't need hit with affliction because you get spell hit for dots in the affliction tree, also instant speed shadowbolts is looking good. Severely underestimating warlocks this go around.
What can a UA-camr say? Play what you want, have fun? You don't need a video for that and nobody is gonna watch it anyway. They literally only exist to give information about meta.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115honestly common sense take. good take. There arent many MMORPG youtubers that can stick with a single game and not devolve into meta analysis. is just rare. doesnt bring in views. progression gets too many clicks
what theyn need to do is copy paste the tbc raids in to SoD and its population will spike way up again (like it will after the first reset of MC on fresh when everyone realise they have no abilities to press in raid or theres 95% warriors and no one can find a raid spot.
If its actually too hard to get guilds/raids that DO NOT want to follow meta. I will make my own guild where we try to actually have a solid split of classes. So that people have the best chances of getting drops and we're consistent with the same people in guild then its you're bound to end P1 with some decent gear. That to me is what matters. I enjoy wow, raiding and talking to people. I don't treat it likes its job and i'm clocking in to get it done as fast possible to get my money and leave. No, i'm here for the good time. I still want to get it done, but i would MUCH rather it time spent be longer and more rewarding then shorter and half the loot is getting DE most the time and the other half, if not less, is being fought over by 10+ people... Remember THIS IS A VIDEO GAME THAT DOESN'T MATTER
It’s true, you can play the game with any class and clear but if the speed clearing meta infects these fresh servers like It did on classic era then no one will take you at max level unless you are specific classes (aka fury warrior). Even with the buff/debuff limit gone, warriors are still king by miles.
yeah, fire mage should be A tier at least. they are honestly just below warriors/rogues. they are mostly cucked in the first few phases cuz of the fire resist mobs.
@@unbr3akable688 highest output means nothing if you're going OOM easily and forced to wand everything. It's not bad at all, and as I've said on other posts I have 150 days on /played on a pally and a priest healer from the 2019 classic, but holy priest does just feel A or S while it's clear Pally and Shaman are S tier.
@@Jacknorrington Priests averaged the most healing done in logs overall. Fastest progression AND speedrun raidlogs on warcraftlogs had a majority of priest healers on the roster for alliance. For horde, they roll with more resto shamans but still all bring 3-4 priests. They out-perform other healers on the hardest fights in vanilla: Saphiron, KT, 4 horseman, Cthun...and...Viscidus. Basically all the fights where healing output is crucial. Objectively, they should be in S tier.
Oh god...where would we be without another tier list for another version of Classic. Pretty sure we all already know how Classic Fresh will turn out...
Honestly who cares about meta at this point? I just wanna run dungeons, make friends, hit 60 and just kill some bosses and pvp. I don’t care about my parses anymore, I don’t care about speed running, I just wanna have some fun at a casual pace
That is why I want to play priest, I will get into dungeons easy and who doesn’t love a priest heal
why did you care about parses in classic to begin with?
@@joelwillis2043 why mock people for liking parses ? like everyone says, play at your own pace, let others play at theirs. no need to mock people..
@@amberleaf42069 Because they're intolerable elitists... It's about efficiency more than fun for them. Many people just want to have a good time and chill. If you want to be in a guild that brings 30 warriors and a handful of healers, go for it. no thanks for me...
@@TheGrumpyMunchkinsever thought about efficiency being fun for people?
My reward for auto attacking my way to 60 is a male dwarf in a pretty dress. God I love this game
Mmmmm Judgement 😂😂
@@albezus I fail to see the downside
Thank God I'm horde and only have to level my prot paladin when tbc starts
😂
just wait 4 naxx lol
He is acting like he isn't one of the enforcers of that fake keep
and in reality it doesnt happen. i allways had a guild as an enh shaman, even if my 95 parses wouldnt be top of dps, we were clearing content like everyone else
@@wolololer It absolutely does happen. There will be guilds that exist that are more casual but to say gatekeeping doesn't happen is entirely false. Gatekeeping happens A LOT and it is only going to be worse this time around because everyone knows exactly what the meta is now right from the start.
@@kylesmith987 ofc it exist, but u only encounter it if u want it, if u are looking for an "hardcore" guild ofc u will find it.
why would anyone wanna torture themselves with i.e boomie or sp anyway, especially when we have dual spec now
@@Ferog51 cuz shadow priest is so fun and underrated, i played it and was at least top 3 dps in molten core and BWL.
i loved how you pretended to think about where the ret paladin was gonna go on the list.
This tier list is why classic needs changes. I would love a vanilla start with the opening patch for tbc with the portal locked and the level cap at 60 with Blood Elf and Draenai unlocked. I think that would be a lot of fun.
You've got SoD, its the best version of "Classic"
@@Nayathil I get what you are saying, but I am looking for TBC balance in vanilla, I think that would be fun.
Vanilla remix could be fun yeah
@@thesoffen48vanilla remix would be interesting, but don’t go changing era. It needs to be its own season.
Honestly, as a hunter in the first classic, I had sooo much fun in those 2 weeks of preTBC patch. I was pumping, and my melee weave rotation was so much fun. If blizzard ever did that, it would be a dream come true for me.
Just remember that if you play in a raid with 18 warriors that you're going to have to rank up to max in PvP in order to get any gear, because you're going to see about 5-6 good weapons drop in raid throughout the entire expansion and you all want 2 of them.
luckily its the new ranking system so you don't have to kill your self doing it, now its only mild torture instead of severe torture.
This video reinforces my decision to spend the next year pvping and preparing for TBC. I don't want to go to raid every week to spend 100+ gold on consumes and boons to help funnel gear to like 3-4 warriors.
That's cheap, as a healer in Naxx consume costs were pushing 700g a week with flasks, dark runes, mana pots and resistance pots. Bots ruined the economy
@@theperfectbeing So how do you get the gold for this stuff weekly? Never played classic/vanilla but from what I've heard gold was pretty hard to come by, right?
@@ChryI He just buy gold like they all do most of the time..
Classic player are the king at destroying their own game experience. Most buy gold, were running gdkp, gate keeping kings and all for a game they describe playing because it's "chill"
@@ChryI I had a pally alt who I got full raid gear for just to AOE farm in DM east doing lasher farms and jump runs. I also had all the top resistance gear recipes on my druid that I used flipping mats for profit. Eventually I leveled a mage whos only purpose was to do Mara AOE farms.
It was a lot of time, since I had nothing better to do at the time (lockdowns) i was spending probably 2 to 3hrs a day farming at around 100g an hour once I got really good at it but early on it was less than half of that.
It was the only option because the bots and GDKP ruined the economy. At one point the best mana pots were 20g a stack and dark runes were 8g to 10g each. I was burning through probably 20 dark runes and 40 mana pots per Naxx run. That's not counting the flasks, elixirs, repair bills, etc. So you either bought gold or farmed like a maniac on non raid nights.
Or... you can GIT GUD and NOT play R3tard paladin for the 5th time in classic?
A real warlock presses Curse of Doom
''It doesn't matter what the meta is, play whatever you want.'' says the individual who always gets groups surrounding him, no matter what he'll play.
I mean the raids are a breeze. Any guild that wouldn’t let off meta raiders in their raid are cringey unless you’re really trying to competitively speedrun.
like other guy said, the raids are so easy you can use 30 ret paladins to clear. just join a guild instead of pugging.
So he should solo because you don’t have friends? Lol tf
@@turkeyman631 not drinking alkohol and getting a job is also a breeeeeze. but only because something is a breezeee dont make it happen the right way.
That is his fun, he likes to play the optimal way... if you want to play the "fun" way, well join a guild that raids 3 days to clear MC with all the stupid ret paladins in there... if that is your idea of fun that is.
Resto shamans DO NOT have to chug mana flasks. I mained one from MC through ICC; just take 1 flask and then use normal mana pots / demonic runes. You will be fine (as long as your kill times aren't absolute garbage, but them you shouldn't be chugging flasks because the raid obviously isn't that comitted).
Also came here for this, I was an rsham in a semi-competitive "speed" running guild, ~50 min naxx clear, and did not have to rechug flasks. The only time this is necessary is speedrunning where you cut healers.
The only thing I’d change about this list is putting priest into S tier on the horde side, it’s the only viable tank healer on horde making them quite necessary for any horde comp
Yea, it's like we aren't playing the same game as this guy. I remember the raid demand for priests, their healing output, the amount of priests taken for progress and the fastest speedruns on warcraftlogs. They are objectively S tier through and through.
I would even say the priests have a better output than paladins on most content regardless of mana efficiency.
I did enjoy the video Sarthe so I apologize ahead of time if this feels critical of you. the video is kind of self defeating in that you say play what ya want but then spend the bulk of the video perfectly illustrating why people should in fact not play what they want . for me the only reason to login and play this game is the raiding and if I am gonna be passed over every time I try and play it defeats the whole purpose of even logging in.
P.S. I play Fury Warrior anyway but just putting that out there
I get what what you’re saying. In terms of the tone of it. But also I think it’s “play what you want, but know what you’re getting yourself into” lol. I think when it comes down to it classic is not for everyone, really. New systems, changes, came about for a reason, largely this experience, for many, is a painful reminder of those factors. I think it’s good to start with the reminder first to make a more sober choice.
@@benkelly7182 Exactly this, Its more about saying hey you should play what you will have the most fun with but just know that if it doesn't conform to the meta you will have a harder time finding groups for raid content. Its about being informed that this is a thing that exists and there is no fixing it, short of blizzard balancing classes which will probably not happen at least not in this fresh relaunch.
this video doesnt apply to guilds that dont care about parses.
its like the girl when she says to a cringe dude: be yourself, makes u happy. but i go into a 2man raid with someone else :D xD
Challenge: Clear all the raids without a single warrior
people cleared MC with 40 mages, note ven a healer needed :D
idk about later ones tho, could be possible with wbs and stuff tho
@@Froggo999 one of my guildies was in 40 man Shaman MC run. She wiped the raid, but they did it xd
Ony was kiiled with 40 priests 19 years ago.
you could clear the raids with 0 warriors and everyone being half naked, shit is a joke
Pretty sure you cant do Naxx without warrior tanks, but you can do everything up to Naxx without one
Prot paladin actually has insane threat gen in raids, because spamming Greater Blessing of Kings/Might on the 20 warriors will generate thousands of threat per global. Might try to run one idk
Is this fr lol
it is, check out Askalon's videos of pala tanking all vanilla raids and bosses. he brings like 900 reagents and spam buffs the warriors (the most of the same class in the raid) with kings to get top of the threat
Patchwerk: ua-cam.com/video/oCTpb2JYEio/v-deo.html
"insane threat" you mean where the offtanks need to throttle threat mutliple times on patchwerk and 7 mages can't get a proper rolling ignite going?
just listening to the "popping flasks" technique and the crowd pummeler farm bs, makes me shake my head and picture punching nochanges peeps in the mouth. its such a negative sales tactic for getting people to play fresh, so many little inconvenience pain points... fix item stacks too ffs, so dumb. who TF reminisces about having no bag space? I've been kinda tricked into the hype, and as the day approaches I keep thinking to myself WTF am I doing? I really don't want to do this again... killing time waiting for Panda to possibly bait me into playing again.
Just join a non sweat guild and your fine. Most guilds will prefer a active feral, shadow or what ever over a random warrior who will stop playing after a month. Played a shadow in 2019 and had alot of fun while being middle of the pack
Y’all got SoD for balanced classic. Era players have waited for fresh for multiple years. If you don’t like it don’t play. I’m sure the next classic launch will be some season of whatever. Let us have our era fresh!
@tubesism SoD has terrible balance, its on par with classic but in a different direction.
@@theperfectbeing Cool so they couldn't do it with SoD, but y'all wanna let them try with era and change it permanently? What could possibly go wrong!?
Never used a crowd pummeler in my life as Druid tank. Not hard to keep aggro with druid...😂😂
As someone who main tanked through Naxx as a fury prot warrior and with a feral OT. I can say feral tanks are incredibly useful to bring.. leader of the pack alone gives a dramatic increase to threat gen for your MT. An additional innervate for healers, extra brez, huge health and armor pools make them great for certain hard hitting mobs. Honestly if you can bring one you should. Idk what Sarthe is talking about here.
Ima be real. He doesn't sound like he knows wtf he's talking about it a lot of aspects
This is why I think I'll just be playing hardcore
not like it's any different there, if you want to raid that is.
Im just glad for dual-spec. As it means i can level as a Prot Pally, gear one out in dungeons at end game - and just respec for raids. But still keep Prot as my dungeon farm spec. Very thrilled
Same for me as a ele shaman tbh 😂
@ exactly! 😂 nuking people all day/grinding; then resto for the boring raid time 😜
@@Bman24641 haha you said it mate 😂 can't wait to actually be able to farm efficiently for once lol
Funny how wow classic players try to make a non competitive game competitive
They cant hang in real pvp games so they gatekeep n easy game
If the boss dies at the end of the day, you get the loot. Doesnt matter if u killed it in 45 seconds vs 30 seconds
the biggest reality here. This guys are even afraid of pvp in actuall wow.
Btw I still want arena in classic wow.
they are competing vs themselves (which they find fun) why are you so negative about that? nobody cares about loot in vanilla except to get more dps = which is the goal for a lot of people
@@fonsterruta163 lies everytime Ive played there's ALWAYS loot drama
And they're not competing against themselves. There's this thing called parsing where you compete against others in your class / other guilds
@@Peetskeet yes where did i say there was no drama? its obviously gonna happen. and my comment about that they compete with themselves was meant as they in a group. english is not my first language so sorry if u didnt understand. so what i meant was that they want to compete only with the best of the best, which is what makes it interesting
@@fonsterruta163 If English isn't your first language, why logic isn't? xD
You wrote this "nobody cares about loot in vanilla except to get more dps = which is the goal for a lot of people"
Very contradicting video. “Play what you want!” Then proceeds to trash non-meta specs nonstop lmao
can't blame a man for telling the truth
It's just reality? Why be mad about the truth
@@Demha96 yeah but peoepl wh ogatekeep meta in a 20 year old game thats super easy raids make things not for for those of us who actually want to have fun
OP is correct. He’s not just “telling the truth”, he’s using phrases like “you cannot bring this class” which is perpetuating the gatekeeping. Because you can bring it and still succeed.
Love that you are covering classic fresh again man. I love your content, always no bullshit straight to the point, yet presented in a really fun/easy way to watch. Look forward to seeing more of Sarthe in fresh 😊
Best advice ever on play what you want. Enjoy the experience and the class.
But raiding is a big part of the experience and I can't do that with literally any of my chosen speccs 😢😢
So I don't play at all
@@Wendigo1986 you can find a dad guild np or even make your own. Many people just want to be top dog and compete, its human social nature.
Dude doesn’t know ANYTHING about Resto Druids. No AOE heals? Really? Tranquility. Only utility is Fairy Fire? Wrong. We also have the only battle rez (Rebirth) and were needed in Classic to cast Innervate when the priests inevitably go OOM.
As a priest player I can confirm, I love several resto druids in my raids. Battle rez is mandatory and innervate also
Don’t know what raids you play with but I did all content in classic vanilla and we had some memes specs, we only had about 7 warriors and 4 rogues, left room for a lot of other classes. Groups I joined preferred to have fun people to raid with rather than perfect meta
Exactly i kidna dont even understand why so many ppl tlak about this "gatekeeping" i played enh shaman during classic and never had a problem finding groups or a guild
@@wolololer Thing is Sarthe only plays with high lvl guilds that clear on night 1, most ppl enjoy just playing the game and progging
@@wolololer It gets bad when you deal with sweaty guilds.
I mained a priest and on a number of occasions got in fights with the other officers because I would use PWS or renew. Their fear was it would push off a world buff off a melee or tank but all they had to do is not use every single possible consume (juju giving 40ap lol what) but instead thought it was more reasonable to forbid priests/druids from using pws, renew, rejuv or regrowth. This meant using ONLY downranked flash heal/healing touch spam all night long, which was only doable if you burned through Dark runes every single cooldown and a couple dozen mana pots.
"So you want me to spend 600g a week on dark runes, so that we can kill a boss we have on farm 2 secs faster (i ran the numbers)...yeah, that's not f$ckin happening, so either kick me from the guild (losing their best healer) or tell the warriors to stfu". Same as I refused to innervate mages on fights like 4 horseman or sapphiron when being the feral OT.
@@chrisdavidson2810 yeah, incase you don't know Sarthe was in charge of a few wow classic wowhead guides back in SOD too and he was known for being very elitist but in a way that taught others how to do so. He was in groups that were speedrunning gnomergon in under an hour so it's clear he cares about efficiency
@@Jacknorrington Ah i see, no wonder he talks about gatekeeping. Most players arent that elitist.
Speaking as a former Classic hunter guru. Spell power scaling with serpent sting doesn’t go as high as we’d like. Obvious reasons are the best spell power trinkets, weapons, rings and neck will always go to your casters and healers first. The best we could hope for is to melee weave with improved Immolation Trap from the Survival tree.
Sadly though, likely most Hunters will be pressured to play MM in order to benefit the Rogues and Warriors. Hunters are more like support DPS in Classic: with TSA, Traps, Tranq, Wing Clip spam (with Nightfall), chain pulling trash for faster clears, solo farming for Tribute buffs, Arcane Crystals, etc.
Hunter is some of the most fun in the world of Classic. But it’s not all about the big numbers on your Details add on. It’s what you bring to your team as a whole, both inside the raid and out.
play whatever you want, vanilla is a joke
So true. Game doesnt feel good till tbc
@@H-D-D tbc is just retail hard pass.
@@mass-cp6jflol nah
@@sevom89walker86 flying mounts, world separated into 5 zones away from the main content. scaled dungeons and raids. reputation grinds, dailies, all classes are viable everywhere... yeah hard pass retail andys.
Nah bro some classes just don’t even count as dps lol
3:40 Renew is the most mana efficient heal in the game
it is if it gets ful value instead of 80% of the ticks overhealing.
Rejuvenation with 8/8 T2 on druid is close/beats it it, but that requires a bunch more set up, and I think priest tier also has a renew set bomus so that gets stronger too
>Ele D-tier whilst Feral DPS is B-tier
now i remember why i unsubbed from your goofy ass back in wrath classic
Hpriest B Tier is also wild
i think the biggest problem tier lists like this have is there is no defining what each tier is. This video completely lacks context of how far of a gap there is between each of the tiers. The simple truth is that warriors are about 2-3x as strong as most other DPS classes, Rogues are about 2x as strong. Fire mages are about 2x as strong after BWL and everything else is relatively close with maybe the exception of like Enhance and Ret basically being on the very bottom of that list as they are very heavily RNG dependent.
Ferals start out decent if your willing to do the degenerate stuff that ferals do but fall off pretty quickly as they don't scale as well with gear, they are similar to hunters in this case. A feral is better then an Ele especially early on. Ele's unfortunately suffer from serious mana issues and a ton of bosses have abnormally high nature resistance. The nature resistance problem is a problem that unfortunately plagues Ele for the majority of the game. It's not until Naxx that you get into a situation where most of the bosses don't have abnormally high nature resistance.
Fire mage better than frost mage in a raid full of fire immune mobs some logic right there
@@shadowreapertwo are you fucking stupid ? you dont play frost spec, its arcane spec but you use frostbolt .
frost spec is pvp spec, just because you use frost bolt doesnt mean it frost spec, it is arcane spec .
fire mage is still better than frost spec because frost spec is pvp.
Ele shaman coper madge go chug on mana flasks and spam chain heals lol
I’ve played holy priest through Naxx multiple times. Never once has a pally come even close to my healing output. Holy priest is the best healer in the game.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I think he totally missed the mark saying Hpal is the best. Priest definitely takes the cake imo
@@Kyte2261 I've been through Naxx on holy priest and pally, I think the issue is that if you have a pally healing you, you'll never have to worry about being healed. Holy pally can keep any tank alive through anything and never go OOM.
priest is good and you can do insane heals, but it's completely DPS reliant as you can oom pretty easily if you're not stacked with consumables or a pocket druid. Pally and Shaman are the kings of healing just because they're so powerful and can keep tanks alive with ease, while also providing arguably some of the most important buffs in the game.
As someone who's played both through naxx and just pally in vanilla, It's very clear why he'd say Hpal is the best, because it clearly is, and is on a completely different level. This is someone who has over 150 days on their /played for both Hpal and their priest from 2019.
I do naxx 3 times per week, this guy has no idea about power of prayer heal and renew it seems. Decent priest would easly pass good paladin. Only cons about priest heal, too much mana consuming.
@@Walpurian yeah that's what he said in it.
First: Healing output means absolutely nothing, any good wow player who's played more than a year knows that if you're comparing healing output, that means you don't know the healing role at all. I have, combined, about 480 in game days on healers across retail and era, and one of the thing that us veterans laugh at the most is when people compare healing numbers, because then the following remark is (yeah but 70% of that is overhealing).
Second: Pallys provide several times more value. They can heal tanks and keep them up, usually able to pocket 1-2 tanks depending on gear and skill level, making the tanks near invincible. They also provide insanely powerful buffs.
Third: Pallys never OOM if you're a good pally.
I think that's what he's referring to. If you're playing as a pally and you're healing, your tanks never have to worry, your other supports never have to worry, and your team knows they'll be doing more damage. If you're on a priest, everyone knows that when an AoE hits they'll be fine, but the tanks are more cautious.
Of course, this means nothing if you have a really good team, because a team of resto druids spamming healing touch will also be able to heal Naxx if they have the best DPS in the game.
@ ya the dark rune farm is real. I’d go through 20 of those on top of pots.
So cringe hearing anyone talking about classic wow these days from the perspective of a hardcore meta lol
You must be new.
@mattvitalis789 lmao
This channel is the roach that just wont die
Sarthe love your content but I feel that most of your outlook applies more to speed runs than anything else - people running with 50% of the optimal buffs, consumes and class stacking can still clear all content. I cleared every boss in the game in midcore guilds of people who were skilled but not sweaty during the patch when it was current content. We had druids casting hots because people weren't fully world buffed and consumed and didn't need to be, mostly warriors for dps but not something absurd like 25 of them and it was...fine. I mean it took longer but it was fine. I think that your'e absolutely right about anything less than 25 warriors being suboptimal but the game is easy enough to allow a lot of suboptimalness.
I ran in a dad guild in 2019 (even though I was 20) and had a great time. Everything was fun and we even cleared 9/13 of Naxx before people burnt out. Best gaming time of my life
Well i do about 900-1000 dps with ma shaman in era. Why u think its not at least a Tier? I dont get it.
Sorry but holy priest is better than holy pal heal wise
Exactly.. as a holy pally, I can never keep up with priests and I'm jelly.. why is pally ranked higher?
@Scrumpchwrap utility the priest can't do a single thing to stop your warriors from killing themselves. Pally just salves gg.
A holy priest can absolutely keep a tank alive on their own, I know because I have done it, from MC to Naxx, but pally absolutely fails to keep raids from dying to raid wide damage. That is why priests are mainly assigned to raids while pallys are assigned to tanks because it is all they can effectively do
Curious, how are Holy Pallies ranked higher than priest's? Their healing is outmatched.. i always tried but could never keep up
Resto Druid in full tier 3 does have unlimited mana so will be fun to see them healer carry in naxx at the end their hots have a very high healing power co-efficiency also so they tick for 2k+
2k Ticks. What are you Smoking?
The crossbow you're reffering to drops from chromag, not nefarion.
Backstab Rogue on Vael fight was an absolute highlight of Classic.
I played Warrior and Mage in Vanilla. 15 years later I started classic and rolled… a warrior and a mage lol. This time around I m going hunter and priest just because I want something totally different
Sarthe I respect you man but what were you on? feral above holy priest? WHAT?!
Will never understand the point of a tier list for a game that's entire content is trivial
Can you do a tbc tier list? because that’s what most of us are picking a class for
for tbc man, it's the ranged dps that reigns supreme. the warlocks/hunters/mages do work early on and through a good bit of the expansion as well.
@@killval849is ret good?
Bm hunter reigns supreme single target bosses all expac, cleave bosses are fury warrior all the way
@@tatedoh tbc ret is the most fun spec in the game who cares if its good
@@tatedoh its good
Even without world buffs (which we will have for the 1st mc) a good warrior with close to prebis will still dumpster every other class with decent kill times
No they won't, I've seen this play out many times after wipes in Naxx, the fire mages and rogues actually catch them. Without the additional crit and attack speed, the rage isn't refilling fast enough. Rogues are less dependent on AA swings (which scale hardest with world buffs).
Go look up "No world buff rankings P5" and look at the charts, mages win out and in P6 the pull ahead even further.
In 2019 classic I was in a naxx speed running guild and we have the best time on our server in the upper 40min mark. Not a single shaman(myself a shaman) was chugging flasks for 2k mana.
If you can pass the dps threshold to lower the time of boss fights then you never have to do it but if youre in a progression guild trying to push for speed it becomes a lot more likely because teh fights extend that extra 30 secs and going OOM could mean a wipe.
obviously if you're speedrunning Naxx, you'll never need to chug flasks, because you won't OOM. This is WoW 101, I'm surprised you even commented that with how braindead that comment is lmao
@@Jacknorrington if you have to click and unclick a distilled flask because your dps is dogshit and you're running oom the problem is the DPS and not your mana stores. This goes for no world buffs as well, still don't go oom with mana pots/runes.
@Ryan-yc4rk that's what I said
You're so all over the place. Warriors will always beat rogues, then rogues will always beat warriors. Hunters start s tier, then they start b tier.
You don't need to use that flask of distilled wisdom exploit as a shaman. Not if you are playing even semi-normally anyways. You also don't only cast chain heal as a resto shaman. That's wrong. You utilize multiple ranks of your heals to ensure you don't oom.
People don't know how to play shaman. it's crazy.
Agreed but that's all healing classes and they'll just make you depend on dark runes while being horribly mana inefficient with costly spells. Healing meters are dumb anyway because it's a zero sum game that encourages sniping and not carrying about raid mana efficiency.
If you aren't oom at the end of the fight, efficiency doesn't matter.
@@radenkovic2856 They're only not going oom because they are relying on very expensive dark runes. Which is a stupid crutch propping up a bad playstyle.
Also kill times are dependent on dps, so if dps is lacking then suddenly the make or break point is the healers mana.
As someone that has a rank 4 parse in the world in BWL as a resto sham (and yes i know healing parses are a meme) he is not actually wrong. Unless you are running 8piece t1 which is only good in phase 1 you are only going to hit chain heal 99% of the time. Yes you will alternate between between rank 1 and rank 3 chain heal using rank 1 the majority of the time but that doesn't change the fact they are using chain heal the vast majority of the time. Chain heal is simply more efficient if you are healing anything beyond 1 single target. yes, you can down rank healing wave in single target situations specifically but you will never out heal or out snipe a priest healer in a single target scenario anyways so it doesn't really matter.
this video is talking about the TOP players and how it will be for them, not your average dad guild
Controversial: a balance pass on class specs would improve classic
Why did you not finish the list?
i played feral tank on era for 2 years is not true they need pummel at everytime however you need hit gear from aq40 when you got those hit item you threat is great and mace from wb or aq40 naxx never lost threat after 2 years of feral playing 2 feral tank each week.
Holy priest on horde in B tier is crazy. Only class that can remove magical debuffs for horde.
As always thank you for explaining things in details. Not a lot of UA-camrs have talked about this in detail regarding the new changes.
With how laughably easy the raids are in the classic era who even cares about the meta. Its not like you can realisticly fail to complete a raid, so might aswell just play for fun.
Holy Paladin S tier/best healer is insane when priests *EXIST*
priests provide much less value than a good Hpal priest. Hpal has a higher skill ceiling and are much much much more important and valuable if you have a really good Hpal. I have over 100 days on /played for a priest and Hpal and I can tell you that Hpal is much more valuable than any priest is
@@Jacknorrington That's cool bro, you bring 3 hpals for 1 reason (salv, kings, might). The actual healing is done by hpriests.
@Ryan-yc4rk most groups do 3-4 health, 2 resto, and 3 priests. At least, this is coming from someone with probably more play time per alt I have than you have in total.
@@Ryan-yc4rki mean he is completely right healing is irrelevant your healer should be doing damage as much as possible because the content can be done with your monitor off. What value then do you want from your healers that would be doing more damage speed the fight up. Priest have nothing pallies have salve and buffs the gap is enormous.
Did you see that in the early statistics in fresh right now shadow is in the middle of dps. Infront of the Warlocks! Crazy crazy
Alot of people do not even care about a boss they have killed 500 times in 20 years, PVP is where its at, and world pvp. Spriest, Lock, Rogue, Mage, Druid, Hunter, Ele shaman All very good at world pvp Warrior is dumpster in pvp, unless you have a healer to follow you, but onces healer goes oom its over anyways for warrior. SO take these tier lists with a grain of salt.
made my class decision couple days ago solely on fun im gonna have in pvp. Who gives a living damn about a pve tier list in Classic anymore lmao
Rogue or Mage seems the best choice if you want to pump in WPvP and in Raids.
Shadow priests are awful. Good luck with that..
@@chrisgraboski9133 shadow priests are the best spec for 1v1s apart from rogues.
I will slot machine my enh shaman and I will like it.
You forgot insect swarm on resto... also NS healing touch is the biggest instant heal in the game. Resto druids are amazing. The reason raids only bring one or 2 is bc their hots dont stack from multiple druids. Also combat rogues are on top of dps until execute phase. So warriors perform better than rogues on bosses with higher hp.
Sarthe I think you should have put your focus on only MC for now since this is fresh. Then create new tier lists as the game moves on. That way you dont end up with the confusion between ranking specs that are good early vs late. Like you placed fire mage based on their early stats but most other specs based on their endgame stats etc.
Pretty based list except mages & locks do like 15 to 20% more damage than hunters, are stacked more often, vital for speed runs, great utility, and have top 2 AoE profiles for mega cleave. Sarthe prob just hunter bias but you bring a few for buffs & tranq which is C tier at best
I feel like classic needs changes in the way for example Hunter scales later on as he starts good but ends up falling behind hard
The problem with loading a bunch of warriors is you are very inefficient with loot. If you make your raid more balanced, very rarely do you DE loot and there is less loot crying (not completely gone). Speed clears might be fun, but the iron of a speed clear is that it takes your 5-6 hours of preparation just to get the buffs only to shave 2 hours off a raid time. It is literally more time efficient to just do a mixed raid comp, get a competent raid leader, and make use of all the loot instead of bottle necking bis loot to 20 plus warriors.
i hear there is no charges on manual crow pummeler now so that should help feral some
Worst part about vanilla is if you’re not playing warrior or priest you’re not playing right in the eyes of most. And they can’t balance the game cause people complain about good changes for some reason.
it depends so hard on the player. me playing an ele/enhanc hybrid build i pump hard dps even when the fight goes long. yes warlocks and rogues getting me but most of the time im in the top 3 dps.
Shadowmeld / MC + optics + jump animation makes female nightelf priests S tier.
In SOM you could use serpent sting, but it wouldn't do a lot of damage, and you'd end up going oom way too fast if you used it. If you're speed running, or have a better raid group than I did, then you can get away with using it for the parse, but other than that, it's probably not going to be as important as using the mana on aimed shot.
"Holy Paladin is best healer on Alliance" Was considering it so that was perfect to hear
theyre really good and mana efficient, but if you're in a good raid group it won't matter. The point of playing pally is so you never run out of mana, you're constantly buffing the team and helping provide value with seals, and the team is staying alive. During the 2019 classic release, priests and resto druids were seeing more play because there were more people minmaxing and killing bosses in 45 seconds, before healers even had a change to OOM.
I'm also playing holy priest, but if you're going with a good group/guild, then you don't need to go pally because you probably won't OOM before the fight is over if you choose another healer, but if you're going more chill/relaxed, then yeah go Hpal
"While levelling" a good enhance tank can tank every raid. Sure they typically need to get raid gear by healing or dpsing first but you can 100% tank the whole expansion. Also serpent sting does scale on spellpower. Always did in classic. Still not great but you can be certain ill do it anyways.
Hunter slaps going into TBC thought
Sounds like they should just remove world buffs for one to bring warrior down to a normal level, and for two to make the bosses slightly longer fights because the removed the Dbuff Limit
The real issue is that nobody wants to tank. If you want a guaranteed spot, go tank.
Doesn't shadow get a shadow dmg debuff?
Did he say keep popping flasks for 2k mana becuase they will only cost 40G?
Bro thinks distilled wisdom gonna be only 40g 💀
They are 20g on sod
@ you act as if that’s gonna be a accurate representation for a vanilla server. It’s not Season of Disappointment 2.0
@@AaronVanAlstine-o9u they are 20g in SoD because of multiple changes they did. They implemented the change where you can get a black lotus off any high level herb and SoD doubled the amount of materials that you get when gathering. So unless they also put these changes into fresh they are absolutely not going to be 20g.
@kylesmith987 do you not remember classic release either? You guys got era brain rot
@@AaronVanAlstine-o9u come back to this comment a month from now, since you can't claim defeat with logic.
OR WHEN SPAMMING KINGS IN RAID AS A PROT PALA. HOLY FUCK Sarthe its been like 3 iterations of this game man.
well about prot pally - i know it'll hinder a bit your surviveability, but technically you could use green mata pots as well :)
Play what you want game is easy
But play warrior for manly brotherly love and to tank dungeons where the 3 dps are warriors refusing to tank
I want to play Rogue, but im already thinking how there is a lack of tanks so i need to roll Warrior so i can tank dungeons while leveling and to be able to farm preBis gear :DD. Warrior is bad in 1v1 WPvP that is the only problem and slow to lvl.
@ idk about wpvp cause im a bitch and play pve server only
But imo leveling warrior is super easy as you can either tank dungeons all way to 60 or do hamstring kiting while questing which helped me a ton trading 1-1 hits
When you play warrior you not have to be a tank. I always play warrior every expansion and i never tank. Arms pvp and fury pve (depends on expansion, sometimes Arms in pve and Arms in pvp)
Molten core: Only druids with all 4 specs! See that would be fun to see :D
They need to make pally prot and warrior prot gain aggro easier consistently without adding damage.
Are attack power world buffs gonna affect hunters from p1 this time?
Fire mage is at least B or A ZG+. And they are the best AoE class even in raids
you can not use insect swarm in moon form. and pressing dotes will make oyu go oom even faster.. balance can no be saved unless they rework it
you don't need hit with affliction because you get spell hit for dots in the affliction tree, also instant speed shadowbolts is looking good. Severely underestimating warlocks this go around.
This sounds like your first go around buddy lmfao
you 100% need hit for your shadowbolts my dude
Classic wild players gatekeep and you're one of the shot callers lol
What can a UA-camr say? Play what you want, have fun? You don't need a video for that and nobody is gonna watch it anyway. They literally only exist to give information about meta.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115honestly common sense take. good take.
There arent many MMORPG youtubers that can stick with a single game and not devolve into meta analysis. is just rare. doesnt bring in views. progression gets too many clicks
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 if they say this the cool wow streamer community will think hes weird
@@Ferog51 It just doesn't require any insight to tell someone "just do what you want" :D
What is the point? No class changes
what theyn need to do
is copy paste the tbc raids in to SoD and its population will spike way up again (like it will after the first reset of MC on fresh when everyone realise they have no abilities to press in raid or theres 95% warriors and no one can find a raid spot.
wish they would fix feral thats crazy they have to farm that, im worried is gonna be even too ezer with no debuff limit
I love it how you put every spec in S tier and then bring them down to D
If its actually too hard to get guilds/raids that DO NOT want to follow meta. I will make my own guild where we try to actually have a solid split of classes. So that people have the best chances of getting drops and we're consistent with the same people in guild then its you're bound to end P1 with some decent gear. That to me is what matters. I enjoy wow, raiding and talking to people. I don't treat it likes its job and i'm clocking in to get it done as fast possible to get my money and leave. No, i'm here for the good time. I still want to get it done, but i would MUCH rather it time spent be longer and more rewarding then shorter and half the loot is getting DE most the time and the other half, if not less, is being fought over by 10+ people... Remember THIS IS A VIDEO GAME THAT DOESN'T MATTER
It’s true, you can play the game with any class and clear but if the speed clearing meta infects these fresh servers like It did on classic era then no one will take you at max level unless you are specific classes (aka fury warrior). Even with the buff/debuff limit gone, warriors are still king by miles.
sick, 10th tier list so far today!
Can you rank the tier lists you've watched for me?
I think Dual Spec will make it even harder to raid as a “meme” spec since there’s no reason not to have one of the specs be optimal
Exactly. I'm going Elemental Shaman either way
Oh shit I can start clicking on sarthe content again because he is covering one of the 3 good versions of wow
He put feral Druid over end game fire mages. That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen. Fire mages parse so hard in AQ40 and Naxx gear.
yeah, fire mage should be A tier at least. they are honestly just below warriors/rogues. they are mostly cucked in the first few phases cuz of the fire resist mobs.
He also put holy priests (the highest throughput healers) in B tier. While the shaman chain chugging 50G-200G flasks for mana is in S tier XD
@@unbr3akable688 highest output means nothing if you're going OOM easily and forced to wand everything. It's not bad at all, and as I've said on other posts I have 150 days on /played on a pally and a priest healer from the 2019 classic, but holy priest does just feel A or S while it's clear Pally and Shaman are S tier.
@@Jacknorrington Priests averaged the most healing done in logs overall. Fastest progression AND speedrun raidlogs on warcraftlogs had a majority of priest healers on the roster for alliance. For horde, they roll with more resto shamans but still all bring 3-4 priests. They out-perform other healers on the hardest fights in vanilla: Saphiron, KT, 4 horseman, Cthun...and...Viscidus. Basically all the fights where healing output is crucial. Objectively, they should be in S tier.
We going to do a tier list every time they relaunch classic?
Oh god...where would we be without another tier list for another version of Classic. Pretty sure we all already know how Classic Fresh will turn out...
warlock really good you wont be dotting you go ruin spec so you get shadowbolts pump up
loving the colour aesthetic
play whatever you want, trash everything that aint a warrior xD
Will wcb and ony buff work on hunters now?