Technical Tuesday - Compensators and Compromises
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Hey folks! Here we talk a little about pistol compensator design and some of the considerations that companies make when designing one. We pose a question...maximum compensation or maximum reliability? Let us know what you think! Trevor
I work in a shop. The CEO of my company wouldn't have the first clue on how we make wrist pins for his company. Cheers to this man.
Decent compensation and more reliable function, no doubt about it.
Reliability must be first and foremost. Just like your other products,don’t stray from that. I look forward to seeing what your buddy can come up with.
You already give us a variety of choices on your pistols. Make both a “Tac” & “Competition” version. Clearly state the difference in the two and let the customer decide.
Tell your buddies who know a guy that decent and reliable are better than less reliable and better. I run a single port comp on my mr920l and have had zero issues after thousands of rounds, training in rainy NW, and multiple ammo manufacturers including hand loads. Run a JG trigger, striker and spring, with 15 pound recoil spring on SS guide rod. Gun is very very reliable and muzzle flip is very very pleasant. No issues with reliability. The threaded barrel which comes with my pistol is great! Threading a can on is fun and all, but makes the gun super dirty fast, and the can works much better on the PC9. The argument against comps is good, but if you can find a solid set up then I would argue the comp is worth it.
Reliability is paramount, I would rather have less compensation to ensure the gun is more reliable.
If you do make a comp i would do what Harrington arms did with the hc9 not exactly like them of course but a comp that runs good with no need to change anything thats amazing
I always look at comps for use on a competition gun or a gun where you need quick follow-up shots. Regardless, usually most effective in the hands of an experienced shooter in a controlled environment, otherwise it is a louder gun for the shooter and everyone around them. I personally like the gas (and bang)going away from me. The only other case that seems to make sense is for large caliber/high recoil guns, where you are usually not making quick follow-up shots but are looking for a mechanism to reduce muzzle flip and maybe help to reduce felt recoil. Another great discussion and explanation. Thank you.
My carry gun is just a standard Roland special made from an mr920 elite. It's extremely reliable after 2000rds with the zev pro comp. The zev works very well keeping reliability with 115 to 150g grain ammo. Compensation is noticably different but without being finicky. The perfect system with the only downside of being super uncomfortable to conceal sometimes but I'd trust no other firearm with my life.
I run the zev as well with my mr920 elite, goes together like peas and carrots.
For self defense use reliable cycling. For competitive shooting perhaps the opposite, since you can play with ammo types that will work properly.
Decent compensation with more reliability. That has to be the no-brainer answer. What good is a compensated pistol if you're dealing with issues every however many rounds. It has to work is the bottom line.
My thouth's on this, if you're talking about a gun for every day cary, are that a comp is probably for certain people who aren't strong enough to shoot the gun well without it, and since it's for carrying, reliability is most important. They only need just enough compensation.
If it's for competition, or just range use, I would think you'd want the most compensation, and you could either tune the springs to it, or only run +P ammo.
So maybe have 2 versions. A carry comp and a competition comp. Also maybe have spring weight recommendations for the competition version, assuming that wouldn't be too much of a mess.
Many people are switching to carry comps, not just people who can't handle the firearm. My biggest example is Scott Jedlinski. Great pistol shooter and instructor, doesn't need one, uses one anyways.
I like your other points on the carry vs competition comps though with the suggested spring weights.
Really depends on application and use for it. If it’s a race gun competition gun and you have all the specs to work with it as far as have a gun built out around that device. And have the proper springs slide weight. And at the end of it all isn’t a gun that you would be using for general purpose self defense or in the case for shadow systems a multi role gun yes compensate as much as you can while still running otherwise. Any other purpose self defense and really the general purpose most people buy a gun for and don’t want to have to mess with all the springs and weights of the gun. Then reliability all the way I would say have your buddy look at who he is targeting as a consumer and go from there if most of the people that will be buying your product are every day run of the mill joes that myself included go reliability. If your targeting a specific group aka competition shooters. Have it made around that group being able to have the tools and options to setup there firearm to work as reliable as possible for that device
First and foremost for me reliability is the most important factor. Outside the competition realm split times are not a relevant as shot placement and further more I feel that the 1st is the most important. I know the net is full of crazy fast shooters, however that comes from years of shooting and thousands of rounds down range. Give me maximum reliability. For those who want compensators there a a number of them out there, go for it.
Some comp but more reliable. I feel Herrington Arms made a good one for the Mr920s. Do not have experience with them on the DR series but imagine they run just as reliably on the longer slides. I usually use 124g federal fmj at range and 124g hollows for carry, both have run reliably without changing anything else on the Mr920.
I actually run my MR920L with a single port comp for just this reason. I wanted some recoil reduction without sacrificing reliability.
I have a MR920L and am looking for a comp. What do you run?
@@tylertwyford938 I use an Agency Arms 417 single port. I like it, but I don't have a lot of experience with other compensators.
@@remedyarms5953 I don’t have any experience. Have you had any malfunctions with it? Which gen did you get? I was thinking about the double port one but the reliability is a big factor for me. Also is the color a noticeable difference from the compensator to the slide?
@@tylertwyford938 I'm not sure what generation it is, I've had it for around a year and a half. I've put 1500 to 2000 rounds through it since then with no malfunctions. The black anodized coating isn't an exact match to the slide finish, but it's very close.
I carry an MR920 elite everyday but I’m just hoping for the day that y’all release something that competes with the 43x mos…..SS please do it y’all will own the market!!!
A comp that is as short that reduces recoil by 30-40%. That puts you in the range of Agency, Zev, single port PMM, and KKM. PMM Ultra gives you up to 55%.
I say shorter if possible because of conceal carry or dealing with holsters - up to a 34 length Glock or Shadow Systems so you don’t have to modify the Safariland holster (most common for LE)
I like Agency Arms 417 Single Upper Port Compensator on my MR920 ELITE. Very reliable. Runs all standard ammunition. I would buy reliability.
Did you get the Gen 3 or Gen 4 version?
@@Ir0nF1st924 the GEN 4 version. The MR920 has a similar bull nose style of GEN 5 GL. Originally I ordered the GEN 5. Agency swapped it out.
Definitely more reliable. Most people just need a little bit of help to control the recoil.
SS MR918 frame, GGP 19 v2 slide, GGP 19 threaded barrel, ZEV v2 comp, Glock factory springs. Thousands of rounds later, some classes, some competitions, still reliable and accurate between 115-147 grain, FMJs and HPs alike.
C, both. Why not have a design that gives you the best of both worlds such as a suppressor. I’m not talking about suppressing the sound, but almost the design of it.
I personally feel everyone should learn how to shoot a stock pistol, and become efficient with that first before wasting money on a quick get good without any practice scheme. Save your money for ammo!!
I have one compensated gun and it is used as a range toy and in competition. It's been reliable outside of a couple of stovepipes. Would I carry it for defense. Never. My carry guns tend to be fairly bone stock. They are tools I hope I never use. My competition and range guns are toys. Tinkering with them and trying to get them to the Goldilocks "Just right" is a fun part of the sport.
Griffin Armament carry style! I run it on my MR920 now.
I EDC the same setup. The comp does just enough and no issues with reliability
Was your friend the one who came up with the Radian Ramjet?
Make it tune able. Trevor’s a friggin genius, he can figure it out! I would lean towards reliability if I had to choose one.
Unless it's a competition setup that you are chasing fraction of a second. Something provide a bit braking effect and doesn't sacrifice reliability nor add size/weight will be ideal. Like the Griffin micro carry comp.
A more reliable compensator would fit better with the Shadow Systems brand and marketing, but if you have a competition oriented product or company then you might have end users willing to tinker a bit more to get things just right. I have a single port comp on my MR920 and it's been 100% reliable through well over 1k rounds of assorted ammo. It makes a noticeable difference when shooting fast strings, and it makes tracking my dot during recoil much easier. I don't see any reason not to add one to a carry or duty gun, assuming you maintain reliability.
Holy smokes I learn so much from you. And yes, I love my MR920 as is but was entertaining the idea of adding a compensator. Why? Just because! I'm so glad you put out this video because now I will leave my gun the way it is. I like to believe I am a decent shooter, so I will not sacrifice one bit of reliability to shoot "flatter". Maybe I will take the money I would have spent on a compensator and invest it on a decent hand grip to keep my wrist strong.
If you’re only making one, you’ll have to decide your target audience is if it’s competitive shooters that are using match ammo and replacing springs then bigger would be better but for and everyday comp, reliability is the priority.
I see no point in having a compensator unless it's going to compensate well. My favorite right now is the PMM Ultra. Make one like that for your pistols.
Yea a double port compensator pmm with a slight angle like A.C. …. 12 to 21° of angle Forward should do it play around with models.
Doesn't slide cuts effect this quite a bit also? A ss with slide cuts feels lighter and more nimble, but the ss with the combat slide feels like it has less recoil. So what's the fine line there also?
I'd like reliable on stock springs and 115g bullets, with decent compensation.
CGS Qube, good reduced muzzle flip, some reduced recoil. Has worked 100% reliably on stock gun w/ 115gr. (Glock & M&P) Have not tried on Shadow Sytems yet as it sits to far from slide. Not cosmetically pleasing lol.
Well I'd say it's definitely based on my (or your) particular application for a specific firearm. Pretty good walk through, though. And maybe he didn't tell me anything I didn't personally know already, but for sure just sold me one of those sweet hats lol.
Reliability over anything
Why not mount the comp to the frame instead of the barrel? Problems solved?
Thanks for the vid! This was better than family health and science class. I’d choose this as an elective in school.
What’s his intended use or need for compensation. I have zero, but I might reduce my recoil with a kit in the future for my micro 9. But I don’t want to compromise realizability and flexibility of ammo quality.
Guys playing gun games are going to chase optimized loads and the flattest setup they can get. 99% of the rest of the world are looking for as much reduction in muzzle flip as they can get while maintaining reliability. ZEV with the Pro V2 and the Agency dual port have been the best at adding noticeable compensation, while maintaining reliability with stock springs IMO. Pro V2 is on an OZ9C and has eaten everything from 115 gr fmj to 147 gr hollow points and never failed to cycle, feed, or eject. Note: Comp was added after the pistol (with threaded barrel) had been broken in with about 350 rounds.
Ya decent comp more reliable, some compensation is better than none but reliability will always be paramount.
More reliable. No question.
Good points about barrel weight + slide, but what the adding red dots? Is the weight roughly the same when you remove the plate for the red dot? Curious about this.
The video for me started out like this, I know a guy who’s buddy’s friend wants to do something cool. AKA MYSELF
More reliable is always a priority
Does anyone know which recoil spring assemblies are compatiable with shadow systems pistols?
Anything gen4 G19 compatible should fit. The spring weight in our gun is essentially standard weight. Adding muzzle devices etc. may change the spring weight requirements. Trevor
I'd lean more towards reliability. But why not make two and have the second one be more compensation oriented?
I need it to always go bang. Reliability is king
I'd love a fully compensated gun. As much compensation as possible just because they're fun to shoot.
I want that buddy to make a 10mm lol!!
Same reliability with some compensation…. Reliability is ultimately paramount
More reliable all the way
Reliability is king for an EDC gun.
Some comp, but mostly reliable. So, when will we see your “buddy’s” comp?? 😂😉
Reliability for me is #1.
Ultimately it depends on the purpose of the tool at hand if was to build a competition pistol like a g34 or 17 depending I'd go for all the compensation I could get because I plan on tuning the springs and I'm building a match pistol if I was opting for a Carry piece of want reliability to take center stage it's not exactly a simple answer it really depends
No compensation ... just train more to mitigate the recoil. Hands will get stronger, grip will become more efficient & effective and recoil overall, and muzzle rise specifically, will diminish.
You want the reliability but the compensator will make the gun barrel longer . I don’t want that on my carry gun .
I’ll take reliability 100 percent.
I'd prefer medium/low compensation and more reliable.
More reliable compensation.
No doubt about it more comp. I’m not gonna be carrying this damn thing around with me. And on the other hand just make two. Come on.
Some comp, but reliable.
The most important part of a firearm is that it actually goes bang ya know
No compensator, just reliability.
NEITHER!!!!! I believe you are going to have a very small market for what you are suggesting. It has no place in any of the shooting sports because there is so many better options out there for those sports and their divisions. Only a person who doesn’t know any better would choose this. I also don’t believe that you would find a large market in the LEO world either. So that leaves you with people who like the gimmick of a light polymer pistol with a comp that really only works well if you have the proper velocity ammo. There is a reason why this hasn’t done well for any of the other manufacturers that have tried it. I believe you are better off spending the time, money and energy on expanding the line up with a 34 type designed for competition divisions like carry optics and production. I know several guys that run MR920’s and DR920’s and wish they had a more competition designed model from you guys. Also a steel frame model would be awesome for LEO, competition and EDC as well. Along with possibly re designing the trigger to something like the Walter and Canik. There’s just so many other things you could do that would be better in my opinion.