The Bronte Sisters’ Photograph: I Was Shocked At New Evidence
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- The Brontë Sisters wrote some of the finest works in the English language including Wuthering Heights, Jayne Eyre and The Tennant of Wildfell Hall.
Emily Brontë, Charlotte Brontë and Anne Brontë were celebrities of the mid 19th century - There are no known photos of them.
Or is there?
In this video we're going to look at some key research into a recently discovered photograph that just COULD be them. This is an update of a previous video which also includes some exciting NEW evidence.
Researchers and arm-chair detectives have poured over every bit of detail of this photograph and many believe it IS them.
Please join me whilst we investigate - Les Sours Brontë.
SPECIAL THANKS to Emily Ross - Independent Researcher.
SPECIAL THANKS ALSO to Caroline - VNI viewer and Bronte enthusiast.
Key research sources and further reading.
This is (what I understand to be) the original blog by the photo researcher who actually discovered the photograph. (Apologies in advance if I have got that wrong!) It’s incredibly well put together and a fascinating read.
brontesisters.co.uk
brontesisters.co.uk/Summary.html
britishphotohistory.ning.com/g...
britishphotohistory.ning.com/m...
whatsupwithbrontania - Wordpress blog
whatsupwithbrontemania.wordpr...
Making a Daguerrotype - A brilliant UA-cam video.
• Early Photography: Mak...
The de-bunk by the Brontë Society.
www.bronte.org.uk/whats-on/ne...
You may also be interested in this Facebook group - it’s filled with Brontë enthusiasts and Victorian photo-sleuths.
The ‘Bronte Photo’ - Who Are These Women?
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All images used are in the public domain and out of copyright with the two exceptions below noted.
1.
Images of the photograph in question (AKA Les Sours Brontë) have been treated as if in copyright - (some websites include a copyright credit.)
2.
The images of 'The Pillar Painting' have been treated as copyright of the National Portrait Gallery.
3.
The image of John Brown has been treated as copyright The Bronte Society/Parsonage.
These images have received on-screen acknowledgement, the images have been transformed, cropped and used in a lower resolution.
Care has been taken to comply with US fair use and UK fair dealing rules.
These copyrighted works have been used and shown solely for the purpose of criticism and review.
Fair Dealing.
"Fair dealing with a work for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another work or of a performance of a work, does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement and provided that the work has been made available to the public."
Thank you so much for watching this video - we hope you enjoyed it. Please do subscribe - we'd love to see you again. - Розваги
When people try to identify someone in a photograph, they often overlook one of the most telling physical characteristics: the ear. Our ears often look almost identical to that of one of our parents (as opposed to a merger between our mother's and father's ears). In this photo, the visible portions of the ears of the women purported to be Emily and Anne appear to have a very distinctive and unusual "valley" along the bottom of the earlobe, beneath the opening of the ear. A similar feature can be seen on the ear of the known photograph of Patrick Bronte, providing further support for this being a photograph of the Bronte sisters.
The ear looks similar to the one on a portrait of an unknown woman by Charlotte. Some people think the portrait is of Emily.
I wonder if they all had “Frank’s Sign,” a diagonal earlobe crease associated with coronary artery disease? That would certainly lead to insufficient oxygen and possibly early death. From Am J Med, Jan 2024:
“The diagonal earlobe crease is independently associated with higher cardiovascular risk scores, especially when the crease is complete, bilateral, deep, and has accessory creases.”
Clever spotting!
Methinks that you are related to Sherlock Holmes , Super Detective 😂
They don't know what their ears were like in the first place
I have twice visited Anne Bronte's grave in Scarborough. I tidied it up and put fresh flowers. It has a lovely view and Anne has the sound of the sea to calm her rest.
I was visiting Scarborough in the mid 1980s. Exploring a cemetery there, I found Anne quite by accident. There was a little bench nearby and I sat, despite the cold, damp December weather, to keep her company for a time.
How lovely of you to do that.
I have visited that spot many times. Sat at that bench next to the grave. I was last there August 2022 it was early morning, bright and sunny. It's a very tranquil spot with a nice view.
Beautiful!
I would *love* to go there, if ever I travel to England
Great video. I was convinced by what you showed us last year, and if anything I'm even more convinced now. That photo IS of the Brontë sisters.
What a great follow up, I think the Brontë Society need to climb down from their high horse and accept the evidence … well done you!
Their high horse is rapidly turning into a rather small, heath-cropping pony.
I believe it’s the Brontë sisters wholeheartedly. Thanks for this.
I do also. It would be eve better if another copy of this picture would show up somewhere. It would cement the whole story for us.
While watching this I remembered the 1st time I read Wuthering Heights. I was walking home from school. Growing tired, I stopped to sit in the oldest cemetery in the city. There are tombs of the ministers of the 1st church in the city. As you spoke, I thought of Jenny Lind who performed in the city in 1850, for some reason? Then, you spoke of John Brown who cared for the cemetery where the Bronte family was buried. Very interesting, I thought. Then I thought, "Look up the 1st Church of Christ." It stated that Jenny Lind performed at the 1st Church of Christ when in Northampton. Here I was sitting in the cemetery where there are tombs of ministers and the very people who attended that church. Many who saw Jenny Lind, and most certainly read Wuthering Heights as I am doing right now! Very, VERY Nearly Interesting INDEED! Thank you!
Look at the character on the faces of those 3 women. I said the last time that if that's not the Bronte sisters than it certainly should be. It's them, man, not a doubt in my mind.
Such a pity he did not use Patricks' profile over Anne's in this video. They are SO similar! And the portrait of George Henry Lewes, who Charlotte met in London, and who reminded her so much of Emily . ‘the aspect of Lewes’s face almost moves me to tears - it is so wonderfully like Emily. Her eyes, her features, the very nose, the somewhat prominent mouth, the forehead - even, at moments, the expression.’
I'm convinced! The known painting of Charlotte overlaid on the photograph was stunning. I hadn't come across the photo before today - I think the Bronte Society need to take another look.
The Bronte Society has been far too dismissive from the start. The evidence is mounting that this is them.
I suspect The Bronte Society are enamoured of the fey,unworldly,and 'away with the fairies' Bronte sisters image. In fact Charlotte was intensely practical and did A LOT of parish work.
They want to keep the legend intact and do not look forward to a real photograph of them. For years they said the Nussey portrait was Charlotte because it fits the picture they have in their heaed of what Charlotte should look like. They were so wrong and therefore I do not trust or care for their opinion.
@@BlaauwVanAbel1234 I think you're spot on! The same happens in the art world. Have you watched 'Fake or Fortune'?
Any society, including hiking groups, social history groups, church groups, even neighbourhood watch, are extremely insular and are ferocious at containing their little bubble at all costs. I can't see the Brontë Society being any different, they have a stance and are determined to stick to it.
Call me a doubter. We have excellent portraits of Charlotte and the one in the photograph supposed to be Charlotte does not look at all like any of them. If anything, perhaps the tall one whose face is hidden is Charlotte and the sitter with the striking eyes is Emily.
It has to be Charlotte - the first thing i noticed on the picture were those piercing eyes. Then you have the same hair as in the sketch. The mouth has a full bottom lip. Then you notice the one stood up has a slightly manly face.
When they took photos in those days the people being photographed had to stay perfectly still for over 10 minutes. Trying not to blink or move slightly is very difficult. So sometimes a photographer would actually paint onto the picture where an eye movement like blinking had ruined a good shot. They would also sometimes take a couple of photos in a session where they could cut & paste if needed.
They actually had tall iron stands that they would put behind the models out of view with a flat U shaped top they would fit behind their necks to keep them in position for the whole of the shoot.
Also, in a studio they would have various costumes and hats.
The daguerreotype would end up a reversal of left to right, and they were usually a few inches by a couple of inches in size. These were made of tin plate.
Maybe the cloaks were to hide a way of propping them up like you mention.
And to stay warm for so long. I have lots of photos of family from before 1913 i wish I could find out more about them.
yeah but Everyone had that hairstyle! Rich poor american British…
@@beastshawnee yeah also a lot of women did those poses as that was called composition almost all the photos in my family from that era its one low one high and one to the side a little. That could be my family too my great aunt had boogly eyes and her older sister had a masculine jaw. But despite that i do think that its highly likely to be them it looks like a copy from the edges. The large cloaks seem like something done to keep people warm for the daguerreotype and that someone spoke about the photo. But the portrait looks like a damn cartoon they barely look like spoon dolls let alone human beings from the portrait. If you told me they were painted eggs id believe you. Lol. Im not sure how they know that portrait was of them by their faces ..and to compare photos to a portrait that also might not have looked like them very well is very different to comparing two photos. Portait doesnt seem a fair comparison since its such a vague and badly done portrait.
@@beastshawnee yes but it's that little fact that Charlotte used to have a parting that was not in the centre but slightly to one side as in photo. It is not one thing it is taking several things into context that point to it more than likely being a photo of them together. It is not proven so it is just a bit of fun 😀
This is quite riveting - as far as the update goes, I really do think the Bronte Society need to think long and hard about their stance on the matter, and at the very least should be looking very seriously into these findings.
The evidence is all extremely compelling in my view, and very well presented - great job👍
As someone who practices historical sewing, the more I learn about historical clothes, the more I realise that the ‘rules’ and assumed styles of various eras are really not as set in stone as we often think. Peoples' choices and styles varied just as much as they do today so I think rejecting this photo based on clothing style is a mistake.
Yet he didn't even mention what experts say about the dresses OR the hairstyles. He talked about One hat, arguing how it Could be 1840s after all. That's fine but to not mention the attire otherwise (and hair) is odd. I wonder if experts match the 3 hairstyles and dresses in the photo more towards the 1860s. Otherwise he'd have said something. I am certain a lot of experts have weighed in on this. The silence is telling and it's a disappointing omission.
Great points both Abigail and Laura, more research and discussion needed. Personal style sometimes overrides fashion and is timeless. I can see that easily applying to individualists like the Brontës... as a possibility at least.
@@Laura-kl7vi He did talk about the clothes, but not the hair styles.
Yes, good point. I think there are a number of issues to be considered around the styling (including what he mentioned).
Also, regarding the styling - as I think he touched on - they were dramatic, romantic and creative individuals who may well have used this photo opportunity to do something outside their norm.
@@AbigailLamb It is amazing how strongly they(and we for them) still reach across the abyss of time, how much they speak to many of us, it is also that spirit of yearning that was expressed in the works of Fiona Macleod decades later. I think that if we sense this, it will help us to transcend crude and fake reality of our hyper materialistic age of the lie. And thus we connect to the real bridge builders to the spiritual, be they artists, scientists, philosophers, ...good, true people... now or then. Thus it is the interest that matters, the enthusiasm. The interest in the photograph to me is also a reminder of works by Charlotte and Emily I 📚 read and also to finally read one by Anne. Their brother isn't forgotten either.
my observations:
The woman who appears to be Anne in the photo has dark, deep set eyes. This is an indication of someone who does not get enough oxygen. She also has a long sloping nose like her painted portrait. The woman who appears to be Charlotte has a protruding lower lip much like her painted portrait as well as the piercing gaze that Charlotte was known for. Her brow line is curved over the top of each eye giving her eyes a more rounded appearance. This matches the painted portrait as well. The woman who appears to be Emily is difficult to get as good a look at because the hat is shading her face and she is turned away from the camera. However, the woman can clearly be seen to have slightly masculine features as Emily was said to have and the painted portrait captures this well in that her face has a slightly more serious and determined expression and looks more like that of a young boy in comparison to Charlotte and Anne. The photograph clearly shows the "Emily" figure as slightly more mature and and possibly having a more "caretaker" role in the relationship between the three figures
thats definitely Anne
She looks protective of Anne.
Emily and Anne were said to be particularly close. I believe this photo is the real deal.
I have fairly dark under eyes and deep set I don't think I'm lacking oxygen at all it'sa generic trait
@@michelles2299 It's not exclusively a sign, but it can be an indicator.
Thats Charlotte for sure. Absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever. A great update mate, ty kindly 😊
I love that that first protrait is basically what a 13 year old would draw people to look like and they willingly acceot that as a portrait but because the photograph doesnt look like spoons with eyes its not similar?
Beautifully said
As Tabitha Ratcliffe talks about the photo on glass, it does sound more like she is referring to the mystery photograph rather than the photograph of the Pillar Portrait
As a collector of cabinet cards, carte de visite and other types of Victorian photographs, this is EXTREMELY exciting. Your enthusiasm for this photograph is well placed and infectious. ❤❤❤
There's a sadder reason the photograph may have been taken. The family likely knew they were ill and likely to die young, and wanted a memory of themselves together. Note how Emily's hand is curled protectively around Anne, whose asthma would have made her seem the more vulnerable. Their novels have a significant weight of gloom and death - and living in a parsonage they would have been more conscious of that than most other locals. I say that because contrasting with writers like Jane Austen and Thackeray for example, you don't get that sense of darkness.
They'd already lost their mother, their brother and their beloved older sisters Maria and Elizabeth, and their aunt who was a surragate mother to them. It was all death, so I think your comment is very perseptive.
Not impossible, regrettably unprovable.
Ooooh. What a good thought
No... no...would be wonderful to have a photo but this is not it. They retain their mystery and privacy. Also there is no way that Emily would wear that hat..too fashionable , too posh . No!
Also, the death rates in Haworth were particularly high, as the water source in the town was being poisoned by ‘run off’ from the consumptive graves. I horrible thought !
I had to read "Jane Eyre" in high school, and I found it an agonizing experience. It was not the kind of fiction I read for fun back then. I had to restart and re-read a lot of it to force myself through it. However, I eventually did and felt that I got to know Charlotte's inner life very well through that process. Feeling those eyes rip through my soul across the many decades, even from a crude photograph of a photograph, I have no doubt that she is the lady author who unapologetically led me through her dark private hell. To be fair, that was 50 years ago, I might try to read it again, as I do like gothic period pieces and might enjoy it now. That is not three random women, awesome find! RIP, ladies.
Hardly gothic!
@@jerrylev59 Yes I agree with you. As soon as I seen the previous video and I looked at Charlotte - I just had a very strong feeling that this is definitely the Brontë sisters. ☺️
While 'Jane Eyre' is not expressly a gothic novel like 'Vathek' or 'The Castle of Otranto', the gothic element is very pronounced indeed, from the dark Byronic hero to the menace in the attic. This element is of course minimised in film versions, although Orson Welles successfully captured some of the novel's brooding atmosphere.
@@rosemaryallen2128 Yes! I always say it's a Gothic novel. The mysterious brooding castle-like manor hall, horrors of Jane's childhood, the insane woman in the attic, the apparition prowling and setting fires in the night, Jane's near death alone on the moors... how are those not in the Gothic vein? You nailed it with the dark hero, also.
At this stage, with as people have said, mounting evidence, the odds of this not being the Bronte sisters, but three women, all three of whom are bearing remarkably identical characteristics to those we know of the Brontes, posed in the same way as their pillar painting, must be slim.
The way they're posed really does seem to capture their unique personalities. It's amazing how much expression can be conveyed through body language and positioning.
Gripping! Fascinating! Well done! I hope the Bronte Society has a bit of a rethink. It is very convincing.
This is superb! I wrote my dissertation for my degree on the Brontes and have been a fan of their novels my whole life. I've been to the Howarth parsonage. I clicked on this video, saw that photograph, and just knew it was the Bronte sisters. Charolotte Bronte stares out of the past right at me. She was the driving force of the sisters and her unique personality is in those startling eyes. I knew instantly which sister was which. Amazing.
@@BigDog366 Oh I totally agree with you. As soon as I seen the previous video I just got a gut feeling when I looked at her beautiful big eyes. Yes, I just had a feeling it was them!!! Yes me too - I love reading their books. Well done on your Degree! Maureen from Liverpool.
Brilliant follow-up!
19:48 The portrait of Charlotte resembles greatly the woman in the photo.. the nose, thinner upper lip, slight eyebrows, hair parting and that piercing stare.. Whilst she looks less drawn and strained in the painting, portraits usually flattered the subject, so it's pretty normal.. Charlotte's sketch of Anne is also very convincing and I love how you superimposed one over the other!
I am ever more believing this is a genuine photo of the Brontë sisters.. well done for the amazing research, Tez.. and to the other researchers and sleuths! 👏🙏 Loved this!! It's time the Brontë Society looked a little closer at the evidence! 🤷🏻♀️
Thanks so much @pimpozza - it’s always so nice to see a comment from you. Tez
@@verynearlyinteresting I am so glad this video is getting the views it deserves, Tez! I love this channel and appreciate your hard work.. 🤗
I watched the first video and was convinced it was them and with this update am still convinced. Well done Tez
Once again I find myself in need of a “Loved it” button because brother you did it again and brother, I LOVED IT! Please keep up the good work I really do look forward to it. One of these days you’re going to have to consider dropping the “Nearly” from your title.
What a lovely thing to say, thanks so much Brian, Tez
A very long-shot, I know, but has any effort been made to identify the background? If that wall (if it isn't a studio backdrop) still exists, it is possible that there would still be identifying marks/patterns, and if found to be in Howarth, that would help resolve the matter.
Good idea. They should start with the home of the Brontes. That looks like an exterior wall. The photographer may have come to their home to take the picture. Next, the building where the studio was. They may have taken the picture outside the photographer's building.
It's possible they might have gone to Keighley or Bradford for the day and decided then
Good point, and there could possibly be other photographs taken in the vicinity using the same set...
Great idea. That is a very high stone wall with a distinct structure to the right.
Possibly outside a church. Start in Howarth.
I'm convinced the picture is of the Bronte sisters, especially when I look at the face of Charlotte. Very good sleuthing, sir!
I can't count how many times I read Jane Eyre. It's that good a novel.
I'm with you, Jane Eyre is my favorite book, period! 🥰 We're often the minority opinion when compared to others - for example: a friend thinks Wuthering Heights is such a great love story and I say "fiddlesticks!" 😂 Jane & Rochester have all that passion too, but also what's most important - friendship, respect, intellectual curiosity, and they both recognize each other's value and integrity as individuals, not simply objects of desire or blank canvases on which to project their own dreams and/or inadequacies. Their love is borne from deep wells of self-understanding surfaced by hardship and loss in the lives they lived before they met. I'm stunned and gratified following the threads Charlotte Brontë weaves through all the exquisite drama of this Gothic novel. Don't think I'll tire of it, and it's been 50 years now.😊 Thank you, Sir Very Nearly Interesting, for this revelatory video piece. I'll be having a copy of this portrait printed to hang on my wall of Goddesses!
@@avarose5908 Very well said!
The photo you're talking about is the known ambrotype of Branwell's 'Pillar portrait' of the sisters. The photo was originally owned by Martha Brown, the Bronte's servant. It then passed onto her sister, Tabitha. It was unfortunately destroyed, likely by accident, at a later date. It is mentioned in a written interview with Tabitha when she still owned it.
I thought the photo she had was of the Gun Group but perhaps she had a photo of both.
Love the channel, love the content. Only gripe is the music is so invasive and distracting (especially the sting that starts with the drum fill).
Agree
Back when I could get around the Daguerreotype was my favorite type of early photography.
You have done excellent research.
I wish you had emailed me to check these details - this particular reference by Holmes has been talked about before in our groups - so far as I understand it, the photograph which Tabitha was referencing was a photograph of the 'Pillar' group, of which there did exist at least one - this was first published by Esther Chadwick just before the portrait's actual discovery and so far as I understand it, she had that photograph from Tabitha Ratcliffe (though may need to check the source on this). It may equally have been the photograph of the 'Gun' group which was owned and copied by Martha which was later found in the effects of J Horsfall Turner (of which there were at least 2 copies). There is sadly nothing to suggest that Ratcliffe's photograph was the Sœurs Brontë photograph and, had such a photograph existed in easy access in Haworth at the time no doubt it would have innumerably copied and distributed, especially in the latter half of the nineteenth century when EVERYONE was scouring the country for pictures of them. For example, from the photograph of the 'Gun' group, a drawing was commissioned by J Horsfall Turner which was published in his book, reproduced and subsequently turned into postcards available at the old Post Office. Photographs of Patrick were constantly reproduced, too. Stewart could not have easily made copies of LSB; I believe he took the original for copying and perhaps made out that the copy broke on it way back - there is a reference that describes a photograph of Emily being smashed by the courier who took it - I think that it is THIS that references the LSB, more than Ratcliffe's photograph. As to the original daguerreotype - I would think it was buried alongside Patrick, or else Nicholls took it with him to Ireland and it was buried with him. Photographs were extremely treasured and were not treated lightly at all, which can be hard to understand nowadays in a world in which photography is everything and everywhere. There IS a photograph on glass in the Brontë collection which I do believe is Anne, which may be worth further investigation - there is a striking similarity to the Anne of the LSB, and, again, seems to be a copy of a dag - but perhaps that is a conversation for a later date. Hope you're well otherwise - thank you, as ever, for your wonderful enthusiasm. Your videos attract much interest! E x
fascinating to hear a counterargument for this info, thanks for sharing! This whole subject is fascinating to me, I'm a Brontë fan, and used to live on St Mary's Walk in Scarborough, minutes walk from Anne's resting place ❤❤
Would a reporter in 1910 really have referred to a photo of a painting as a photograph on glass? He wouldn’t have brought up that it was a painting?
I’d love to hear more about the photograph on glass which you believe could be Anne. Has it been published anywhere?
@Saffron-sugar I took it that he was just describing the object she had with her. Stating that it was a specific type of photograph indicating its age. Why do you think it's more likely that he would write that it was specifically a photo of the painting, if that were the case? Genuinely curious! This is so fascinating!!
@@Saffron-sugar well yes, because all he says is that it was a photograph, which is true - it is a photograph. He doesn't state whether it was a photograph them 'from life' or 'from a portrait' hence the ambiguity. So, given that we can't be sure, we have to look at the context: and had a photograph been known to have existed 'from life' it almost certainly would have been referenced somewhere or copied as the search for all images of the Brontës were sought after by enthusiasts at that time. That doesn't mean a photograph of them from life didn't exist mind; the Brontës lived well into the advent of photography, the daguerreotype process coming to England in 1842 - however, as there is NO reference to them having been photographed anywhere (save the one aforementioned), if they were photographed, it was likely kept extremely private - which also makes sense considering their portraits were concealed for 53 years before their discovery (!)
Fantastic video ..... really enjoyed it ..... I haven't studied the painted portraits of the Bronte sisters before .... but I correctly identified Charlotte in the photograph from the group painting before you suggested it. The strong gaze is a give away. I think you make a very compelling case.
I don’t think Emily and Anne ever went to London at the same time. They would have taken one in Haworth after Jane Eyre was published in 1847 and Charlotte became rich. But the French caption is intriguing. Charlotte would have been so blown away by this technology that she could have sent it to the Hegers in Brussels-one last attempt at contact. And the Hegers mistakenly wrote “London” on the back, thinking that’s where it was taken, in the big city. I thought this was ridiculous, but just the same, the fact that the caption is in French means something.
Oh this video had be fascinated right from the start and then I worked my way through the comments too! New Fan of Channel - CONFIRMED.
@@KindaSassy1 thank you so much!! Tez 😊
I find the composition of this photograph fascinating! It appears to focus on Charlotte because she is the only one facing forward whilst her two sisters gaze (with admiration?) at her. Why would three women sit for a photograph and only one of them stare at the camera? This must have been deliberate because people had to sit still for long periods for a photo in those days. Perhaps she had just had her first work published and the photo was taken to commemorate her success? If you look at old paintings, they are usually composed of people looking at the subject of the work, i.e Jesus, or a saint for example.
I don't know what this means, or whether it's helpful in any way, but I found it strange and intriguing.
Anyway, thanks for a very interesting video! You have a new subscriber 😊
You have me convinced. I think your arguments have, at the very least, moved it from the impossible to the possible. The Bronte Society will have to concur. Of course if someone refuses to believe then there will never be enough evidence.
Kudos on this find, good sir!
It's been known about and online for years!🤦 This guy's a clown.
It’s So obviously them. The painting of them is exactly how the women from the photograph would have been painted with each of their distinctive features clearly evident
Yup I totally agree. A photograph of a photograph. ✅ 👍🏻
Thank you for the update. Further refusal to reconsider their decision would be stubborn, I suppose. Hopefully the Brontë society will give in now.
I’m convinced it’s them. It baffles me how much the Bronte society / museum is so dismissive. What is the big deal if there’s a photo. You would think they would be happy about it not dismissive. Anyway love this video and looking forward to more evidence which I’m sure there will be in the near future !
They are in love with the wispy,virgin spinsters,fey and away with the fairies drifting dreamily among the heather like a chocolate Flake advert.
How do they know that these women do not look like each other? Only one is face-on, the other two are in profile.
Wow! What a cracking find! Absolutely fascinating as always 😊
Well you could work out if the picture is flipped by the buttons on their coats, or if they don't have buttons how the scarves are tied.
Possibly. Though those conventions may or may not be consistent across two centuries and an ocean.
@@DawnDavidson And left/right handedness. My father watch the restoration of a WW1 felt I think, military hat. The grandson took it to a professional to be preserved. When it was done and returned the hatter asked him if his grandad was left handed. The guys Grandad was, the hatter could tell because of worn spots on the hat from being put on/off so many times could only have been made by a leftie.
Can you tell me the meaning of how a scarf is tied. I do understand the buttons.
@@amazinggrace5692 Well we are taught over, and under in a certain direction, so one side of a tie is over, and the other side is under. If someone studied the positions they could see which way the photo is facing.
How thrilling! I was riveted by your first video on this and your update takes it to the next level! Very exciting - thank you.
I was so excited to see this update!! I have read all of the Brontes work but my favourite of the three is Anne! I love The Tennant of Wildfell Hall. And Agnes Gray is pretty well written, I’m sad that Charlotte saw fit to have Tennant repressed in her lifetime. Anne certainly didn’t care about the negative press reviews. In fact her introduction to the second printing of the book addresses exactly that issue. I hope they accept this photo as the real thing. It’s so nice to be able to a face to these very talented women. Thank you so much for the update!
@@stephaniec3619 Wildfell and Eyre are my two favorites.
I stumbled on this by acdcident, and watched - I'm curious and a trivia nut, and I was impressed by the cleverness and intelligence of the commenters. I expected to see people sniping at each other - and was surprised to see the first one comparing the ear-folds of their Father to theirs...they really are hereditary. Thank you, this was really well-researched and presented. 13:20 ..."why would anyone have wanted to photograph them at that time?" - because they're women and sisters. Men get them to commemorate something - women have have sentimental reasons, usually. Thank you, what a clever and interesting video.
@@ColleenLytle-sq8tx What a nice comment to see, thanks so much Colleen. Tez
Agreed. Millions of photographs were taken during that first decade of photography. People took to the new medium with a sense of awe and wonder.
What an intriguing and thorough presentation! Organisations like the Bronte Society need to stop thinking of themselves as gatekeepers of a legacy, and more as a source for promoting and investigating that legacy. Independent researchers and interested members of the public have potential contributions to make. And shouldn't be dismissed cavalierly.
Greetings from South Africa. A most interesting find of your channel. A good Sherlock story and I am very pleased to hear that you have a great and hopefully put to bed story.
@@grahamleigh8398 Hi Graham, how nice to hear from you from South Africa🇿🇦 ! I’m so pleased you’ve found the channel. Tez 😊
The photo overlays sold me alone. The ladies have VERY distinct features in the painting and those same distinct features are in the photo. I’m sold!
I was convinced before but this new information settles it for me. It's absolutely the Bronte sisters. Incredible!
very nearly interesting, but the whacka whacka wow music did it for me 🤣
😆
Wow I really hope your amazing work here will prove to the officials and general consensus that these are the Bronte sisters, so beautiful. I remember seeing Charlotte's face years before when I saw people speculating if this was the photo.. She's so striking. It has to be her. RIP to all of them, including Mrs Ratcliffe. Thank you to her.
Just one of the Many of thousands that never made it back home. All tragic.
I think it’s them! It made me cry looking at their sweet faces! They were so passionate and brilliant and had such hard, sad lives. They made whole other worlds for themselves with their wonderful imaginations! 💛🌻💛🌻💛🌻
At 22:33 How exciting - You found the telephone box that Charlotte Bronte used ! You could check CCTV to verify it was her. 😂😂😂
Brother Branwell probably shot the video,it's on you tube somewhere!
Especially when first phone box appeared in England in late 1870s!
Maybe Charlotte’s ghost was making the call?
This one assertion casts serious doubt on the host's scrupulousness of method.
Museums and Societies often have a fiduciary interest in controlling any and all claims to new information.
Surely there should have been Memento Mori photographs taken of each sister! Even the poor had these types of photos taken of loved ones in death as it was the only photo the could afford during the recently departed s lifetime. I would find it strange if no photos were taken of the sisters. I have a collection of Victorian photography, books, albums etc and even though the lower social status of the person photographed is evident by attire...they still sat facing the camera exposure. Is this photo the Brontë sisters the probability is much higher due to the scribbled writing as I have many in my collection that has such writing stating who is in the photo or family name. Interesting video thank you
In the grief of their deaths it probably wouldn't have occurred to Charlotte, especially as I don't think there was a photographer in Haworth then. Anne died in Scarborough and there was probably so much to arrange as she died away from home that again she might not have thought to do it
@@jules5394 This was not a universal custom.
Very interesting; you've put in a lot of work just in making this video, and it's a tantalising story. The picture itself looks somehow credible at 1st sight, and the detective work of so many bronte enthusiasts......marvellous.
I bloody love this channel! Another great upload.
Aah Mr vni-back in your beautiful Haworth 💚Such an exciting update. Thank you.🙏🏻😊
The apostrophe goes after the s when it's plural possessive. The title would be "The Bronte Sisters' Photograph". However, when the person is the subject rather than the photographer, the name usually isn't possessive. In the case of a photo of multiple Bronte Sisters as the subject, there should be no apostrophe at all. In this case, the title should be "The Bronte Sisters Photograph".
@mynameisworld - Alright...You have clearly exhibited your superior skills in written English language rules. Congratulations.
25:05 for the new stuff.
I watched last year's video and I thought it did look like the Brontes especially Charlotte. I know these sort of issues need thorough scrutiny but I'm with you and Tabitha's 'evidence,'is very compelling .Really appreciate update and hope more will come to light
One thing I find curious about this photograph is the fact that - unlike most Daguerrotypes - it was clearly photographed outside. There appears to be deciduous kind of shrub left of Charlotte and the branches are bare. The three women are also dressed in heavy cloaks, scarves and Charlotte appears to be holding a muff. Suggesting the autumn or winter which would possibly narrow the window it was posed to late 1847 or early 1848. I doubt this picture was taken in a studio. The backdrop would normally be a plain or painted canvas. Here there is a rough brick wall that's been whitewashed. Clearly a perimeter wall. My feeling is if this is a portrait of the Brontes it may possibly have been taken in the garden area at the rear of the Parsonage. Does anyone have any knowledge whether the outdoor perimeter walls of the property were whitewashed at all at this time?
I think this is a photo taken in London when the sisters went to see their publisher and reveal that actually they were women, not male authors as they had pretended to be. This could explain their clothing and the way Emily and Anne are looking at Charlotte, who became a bit of celeb while they were there. That visit to London makes sense of it to me.
Would also explain why the back of the photo said Londres and why Emily had a new hat. When they were a bit younger she was not known for dressing up to the latest style. I believe she was also said to be tall?
thank you for this update. It seemed people were just against this from the start and thought themselves know it alls. However they did not have all of information. You can't rest on your laurels and need to keep reading and looking! This makes me happy!
The biggest question in my mind is the provenance of the photo. Maybe it is explained somewhere but I don't see it. A "photo in a private collection found in the South of France". Found where in the South of France, by whom, when? A photo of the sisters even if it was suspected to be real, is quite a valuable thing. How do we know it's not a modern forgery?
This is very interesting. I remember a similar story from the late 1960s that was covered by the colour supplement of the Sunday Times or the Observer. Those supplements were a big deal in those days. The story was about a woman who had a photograph of the churchyard at Howarth with three figures, who she argued were the Bronte sisters. It's was definitely not your photograph, but the experts again dated it to the 1850s and said it couldn't be them. I was only nine or so at the time, but think my memory of this is pretty good. I thought I might find the article when I cleared my mother's house a couple of years ago, because she had been so interested in it, but it didn't turn up.
@@bonkershall Oh wow that sounds intriguing! If you ever come across it (even online) do please let me know. Tez
You should rename this channel 'Very Interesting Indeed'.
One should think that The Brontë Society would know a little bit of history, about that and that, but no apperently. Let us hope they think this over again. And as always you're a treasure vni.🎞🕵🏼♂️🤍
Oh no, she likely owned a photo of the painting of the pillow portrait. There was definitely one, possibly more photos of the painting taken. All documentation points towards it being the pillow portrait in the photo 🫤
Pillar not pillow 😂
I am just dubious that a reporter in 1910 would refer to a photograph of a painting as a photograph.
@@Saffron-sugar he might if the photograph of the painting tended to have the appearance of a photograph
I'm on the fence still. It can be neither proved or disproved. It's certainly compelling evidence though. I'd like to think it's them.
Cases in a court of law can be won by the overwhelming weight of circumstantial evidence xD
The "new evidence" is the much discussed "photograph on glass" of the three Bronte sisters which Tabitha Ratcliffe inherited from her sister Martha Brown. This would be Martha's ambrotype of the Pillar Group portrait (she also had an ambrotype of the Gun Group which may have been smashed at the photographer's studio after a copy was made of it).
My first time watching one of your vids. Love your enthusiasm and passion. Never been interested in the Brontë sisters (hated having to read their books as a schoolgirl) but I watched the whole vid due to your presentation of the subject. I’ve subscribed to your channel and look forward to enjoying more of your work. Many thanks.
That’s very kind of you, thank you, Tez.
This is a wonderful video. Thank you for your enthusiastic sleuthing and reporting.
Thanks Jill. Tez 😊
This new evidence is game-changing. Very, very exciting and you have done great work bringing this to the world’s attention. Thank you!
Yes thank you for posting all this and putting in all the work. Anything about the Brontes is interesting.
If the photograph could be colourised it could prove helpful.The Brontë Sisters' father was from Ireland, the destinctive white line on the upper lip is seen in Irish people frequently & a promident fuller lower lip too.Irish people are widely renowned for their beautiful eyes, plus the outer dark ring on the eye is wide spread in Ireland making our eyes even more intense
Interestingly Kate Bush's (who's mother was Irish) known for her iconic song Whuthering Heights shares the same Birthday with Emily Brontë.
For me personally I now accept that these are the sisters and I am only waiting for someone to conclusively prove via some written document or hard evidence that it isnt them. Without that hard evidence I will accept that this IS the Bronte sisters. Thankyou VNI for your work on this and for telling so many people about it.
That’s backwards thinking. Evidence are needed BEFORE accepting anything.
No wonder scammers and every sort of snake oil salesmen have it so easy nowadays. Smh
I'd love it if this photo were proved to be of the Brontë sisters and it's no fun to keep my head cold, but with anything like this you just have to. I don't think it's just the hat that is a problem fashion-wise, for example. I've spent a large part of my life poring over fashion history books and old portraits and my immediate feeling was of late 1850s to early 1860s styles. I'll admit I would feel much more sure of that if I could see the dresses they wore beneath their cloaks, but the general profile seems a bit wider than an 1840s profile. It looks to me like the middle woman is wearing a wide 1850s crinoline under that wide cloak. The two women at the sides do wear hairstyles that fit in around 1847, but if I saw the middle woman alone I'd say her hair and hat is clearly from ten years later. I don't think there is enough evidence for me to be convinced, and I am inclined to think it's from a bit later in time than 1847, but I haven't found anything that makes it entirely impossible or even very implausible that it should be the Brontë sisters.
People in real life wear a wide range of clothes not just the 'ones of the moment'. In 1930 a lot of people were still looking very Edwardian. In the 1960s a lot of people were dressed like it was 1955. Im not dressed like it's 2024 seeing as I've had most of clothes the last 30 years and they just wont wear out! I think judging old photos by styles of clothes is dubious as most people dont confirm to the popular image of what's "in".
@@janebaker966 Fair enough, but it's more complicated to wear a fashion from a period after your death.
To me, the apparent breadth of ‘Emily’s’ cloak gives nothing away about the size or shape of dress she might be wearing underneath it. This figure has one arm outstretched and visibly placed around ‘Anne’ and though her right hand placement isn’t in view, both her posture and the close positioning of the group suggest that her other arm is also outstretched, with her hand possibly placed on ‘Charlotte’s’ back. Having both arms extended in this way will inevitably spread the cloak to the point where its shape can hardly be reliably suggestive of anything worn underneath it.
Definitely mounting evidence. It's looking very difficult to refute, if not irrefutable,...many thanks for your update.
"Maybe this is the Bronte sisters" is about as close as we are likely to get. The Bronte Society necessarily has to set its evidentiary bar high, but it looks time for them to concede this is at least a possibility.
Tez knocks it out of the park again. Fantastic video mate.
Hi DM!! And thank you! Tez
I don't think you could've sourced less appropriate music if you tried ...
70s American cop show.
I was totally convinced before when you gave us the evidence last year, now I am certain!!!! This is an incredible piece of investigative work. Thank you Tez for bringing the Bronte sisters to us for sure!!!!!!😊
As a portrait artist, I have to say the photograph looks very much like the painting. I would have guessed it was the same three women if someone had asked me and I knew nothing about either portrait.
Great video and certainly grabbed my interest. The music, however, was distracting. The music was everywhere but where we were for most of the video which was the mid 19th century. The upbeat pieces were off as well. In short, the music was terrible. I rarely post negatively, but I felt if the women were that important to British Literature History, they deserve a better soundtrack. Thank you for all the info.
Sorry about the music 😳☹️. Tez
@@verynearlyinteresting Thank you for your reply. 😊👍
Really interesting and well done for continuing to dig! Not sure how the wall in the photo fits with the idea of a photography studio. Also, London (Londres) and the Brontes's subsequent fame : is there a chance that this is a group of 3 women who were likened to the Brontes but at a later date? Was there ever a play written about them performed in London? Was "Les Soeurs Bronte" a per phrase coined by somebody to represent 3 similar, literate women that were known to that person? I'm struck by the physical appearance here - you tend to see the sisters as being pretty broken down in health by that point but they look quite robust and fresh-faced. Still not convinced but thanks for the fascinating follow up.
Well-presented. I'm convinced. What a wonderful photograph it is, to be sure. Thank-you.
Thank you for this video.
My gut really reacted... giving me a "thumbs up" for the Bronte group photograph.
One another note: I am the eldest of 3 sisters.
Anne even looks like my youngest sister.
My middle sister is called "Shirley".
GOD bless you.
Thank you so much Stephany Fay 😊. From Tez
Is there a sample of John Stewart 's writing to compare with the writing on the back of the photograph?
First we have to find out who owns this photograph and what the reason is no one is allowed to investigate it. I hope that some day soon we hear from the owner and it will be given the attention and research it deserves.
Thank you for your meticulous research. I have a photo of my husband’s family from 1880. They had 4 boys and 2 girls. My daughter resembles one of the daughters, which would be traced to which was the aunt. My 2 boy’s resemblance to 2 in the photo is striking; but one is a clone. As far as we can figure we have at least 6 generations of engineers
Oh wow! That’s fascinating Lynne 😮
Thanks for the fascinating video.
I have connections with the village as Stanbury, the hamlet up the road, was my first home. My paternal great grandparents were from Haworth, my paternal grandmother too, and my father lived there as a child in nearby Sladen Bridge. Two of the Sladen cottages belonged to my family for many years . My aunt and uncle lived in Stanbury. We moved away to Keighley, but I last lived there in 1993 for a year . It's interesting to go back to visit the village.
My grandma (born 1895) told us many years ago. she knew a very old lady in the village ,when she was a little girl ,who had worked in some capacity for the Rev Bronte in the late 1850's just before his death. I can't help you with any information or names unfortunately.
I believe the photograph is the Brontes. I think the Bronte Society should seriously look at it.
I am curious as to why the back of the photo would indicate it was taken in London (Londres). Can the sisters be placed in London together at some time in 1847? Some comments suggest trying to match the background wall with a Haworth location but why then would it not say 'Haworth' on the back? Even now, we often write the place a photo was taken on the reverse as a reminder.
Gillian, they were never in London all together, or abroad. It would have to be taken somewhere in North England. I want to believe it, but something doesn't sit right, and not sure what it is. Whether it's the costumes, they just weren't the clothes they wore, and it's Emily. She was known to be painfully shy and avoided people. Would she have agreed to do it. I just don't know.
If they were never known to be in London together then it makes the alleged writing on the back, which no one has seen, suspect.
@rosameryrojas-delcerro1059 I suppose it could be possible it was where the reprint of the original daureggotype? was made. I'm sorry I have virtually no photographic knowledge!
@@user-qh8nh7oe6d Generally you write who is in the photo and where it was taken, not where the copy was made. I have been doing my own families genealogy since 2005 and I have never spoken to anyone who has written where they copied a photo when they give a copy to another person instead of where the photo was taken.
If somehow a copy got to France whoever wrote on the back might have just assumed it was from Londres not having much of a clue about British geography
wow wow wow wow wow... i agreed with you first time around. now there is no disputing it.
I have subscribed. Thank you for the update. Wonderful!
You have convinced me! Thank you for such an interesting presentation! I look forward to more of your videos!