Cessna Wing Strut AD Explained in depth with parts shown.
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Mark talks about the Cessna wing strut AD (AD 2020-18-01) Cessna AD, Airworthiness Directive, FAA AD, Cessna 182, Cessna 172, Cessna lift strut crack.
Here is a link to the Federal Register:
rgl.faa.gov/Re...
Thanks Mark, a really informative and helpful video as always!! A great opportunity to see the area with that 182 dismantled - I feel for the owner!
advanced repairs.
Thanks Mark for showing this. I believe my 1978 182Q is part of this AD. I was trying to read and understand what it says but none of it was making any sense to me. Definitely helpful to see it!
We are glad the video helped!
Great video. When I see one of these planes opened up it reminds me how lightly they are built. Interesting subject material, for sure.
I really appreciate you posting this video! It will keep me from being blindsided for ~ $15K knowing that I need to account for it in my long term budget for my plane.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks, Mark! I really appreciate you making this informative video on what this AD requires… showing the parts and costs involved!
It made me consider Cessna aircraft without wings struts i.e. 210 and 177… but, now an AD has been issued on inspecting the wing crossover spars on those aircraft! I will watch your video on that next…
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Mark truly truly appreciate videos like this.
Too good an opportunity to miss with that plane in parts.
I've been waiting for this video! Excellent job describing the issue the fix and providing a perspective on why it's a major undertaking to repair this issue.
Hi Jerry! Thanks for the compliment!
Great video, thanks for reminding me why I decided not to buy a "bargain" 50 year old plane.
An hour and a half just to inspect for a quarter inch crack with a $10k repair bill, yikes.
Great Video, Thanks for posting.
You are welcome. Thanks for watching!
Great content every time! Greetings from Switzerland LSZE
Thanks.
These are very good reviews and explanations - Thank You
Thanks.
Thanks for doing this. My 182 just got caught by this and believe it or not it’s across the way at Lampson over at Tom’s Aircraft. Steve’s is offering guidance on what they’ve learned after doing several of these. What a pain. When this popped up three weeks ago during annual I couldn’t find really anything about this on UA-cam. So we’ll on ya for making this one
We feel for you.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 At least it will be done, and now I have a much better idea of what is being done thanks to you. I'm well into the acceptance phase of the stages of grief.
I think it was yours then that Tom was working on when I went over there to "borrow" the two parts I used in that video. Those are going in your plane.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Mine's a white Skylane with a blue stripe. I bet you're right. Imagine my surprise the video I was waiting for someone to make began with you headed to Lampson while my plane is down there. I wouldn't have been surprised if it showed up in your video! Once again, thanks for making it keep it up, all of them. It's super informative.
I actually met you briefly maybe thres-ish years ago at your base there to look at the judge's white and blue skyline. You probably remember that one because the paint was original , I think it was a '78 maybe? Avionics decked to the nines. It sold very soon after. We talked about the flying cowboys, Draco, the High Sierra Fly In and such.
Absolutely very informative! Thank you Mister ! Cheers, from Houston, Texas.
Thanks.
Really dig this video. Would love more educational videos like this with a diagram
More to come!
Hi Mark very good information !
Keep teaching us!
Im from Córdoba Argentina. I was in placerville coming from lake Tahoe
Right past here.
Well done ,it was put very simply but comprehensively.
Simple is better.
A few more videos like these from mark and I'm ready to build my own plane. 👍🙂
We're working on one now that might just be right up your alley. - Don the Camera Guy.
Very well explained with details and nice videography 👍
Hutch Aviation manufactures these kits much cheaper than Cessna! Highly Recommended!!
Thanks, Mark! Greetings from Argentina.
Hi.
Thank you for including prices!
Makes it all relevant.
Thanks.
Thanks for all your work and sharing this video.
No worries!
You did it again, thanks
Thanks.
Excellent information to know. Thank you!
High praise. Thanks, Raul!
That was excellent, thank you!
Thank you, John!
Thank you for explaining and showing what a poor design strut bracket Cessna made. Yikes! Have flown many hours in a Skylane and never realized the strut is merely attached to the 'side wall' of cabin. The real meat of the strut bracket needs an L or 'foot' coming inboard about an inch, thereby actually joining the side and floor, vs. the .032? piece that cracks, which is a tell tale its pulling apart. Amazed Cessna hasn't had more 'folding wings'. But, many birds are getting some years...Just my 2 cents.
The attachment is to the side to side structure right under the belly to the other strut, but the two rigid parts does mean that it it moves it can crack between them.
"Have flown many hours in a Skylane and never realized the strut is merely attached to the 'side wall' of cabin."
It's not, it's attached to the underfloor bulkhead, and it's attached to the doorpost, both of which are integral parts of the airframe structure. It is not ... " merely attached to the 'side wall' of cabin." You must not have watched the video.
"A really poor design"....That has served quite well for nearly 70 years.
@@KB4QAA I agree 100%. They did not know that they would last this long.
More good info. Thanks!
Thanks Mark.
Excellent information.
Thank you.
Great information!
Thanks.
Design fault with a small stress radius? That 'kit' looks incredibly expensive for a few MS fittings and a couple of bits of sheet.
I agree.
Welcome to why airplane ownership sucks!
You're also paying for supplier liability insurance, and lawyers .
@@andyburk4825 And the research and design process, and the FAA certification. This stuff doesn't magically happen for free.
G,day Skywagon University from Sydney, Australia.
A.D 2018-01
* Fantastic explanation of the reason for the AD.
* Is the A&P using only visual inspection or liquid penetrant or other advanced assessment to establish if a crack exists
Thanks, Sir
🌏👨🔧
Well if you see the crack then it needs it. If you cannot see a crack, then you can use other means like a dye penetrate etc to be sure that you do not have one.
Wow , I get an education every episode at skywagon.
That's our plan. Thanks.
Hi Mark. Thank you for sharing. Is that little crack that appeared over time make the aircraft dangerous to fly. What could happen if it was ignored and never upgraded. Cheers from Perth W.A. 🇦🇺
I think that there could be a lot of them cracked that have been like that for years. It would have to be very severe to fail and I think that there would be a lot of warning for hours beforehand. It would creak while taxi-ing and in the air and also be very visible with the black aluminum powder coming from the movement area.
Thanks for clarifying this.
Hi Tim! You are welcome.
I ferried a C206 down to Perth,Australia for this work to be carried out back about 2001,i was told heavy landings was the cause of this failure,the struts transmitting downward forces onto this area.Doubt if the kit was available back then.
We get a lot of our AD's in the US from you guys down-under testing the planes until they break.
I HOPE they are building the new aircraft with that problem fixed!
Remember, that relatively VERY few planes have this problem, but most of the Cessnas have to be inspected for it.
So that very thin piece of metal is all that's holding the strut on? That's hard to believe
It is all part of a structure.
What the heck. You don’t fly a Skywagon! That’s heresy jk. Love your videos.
I know!! The Mooney is fast and efficient. I fly the ones I buy though. :-)
Excellent
Thank you so much 😀
The cost of the parts is crazy! Is this a part that you can make and install? Can you pay to have your made parts oked by the FAA? Thanks. I hope they are still monitoring this video.
Great informative video. From a non- pilot, why does the kit cost so much? A good CNC unit and I could produce that kit for a fraction of that cost. Seem like someone is taking advantage of airplane owners. Not fair for them. Again thanks for sharing this video.
You should do it. You'll need FAA approval which will cost tens of thousands.
It's not the manufacturing of the part whcih is expensive, it's the engineering of the part, and the cost of the certification that's expensive.
You need certification of the production of the aluminum you purchase from where it is mined and turned into metal from ore. The person that sells you the metal will have to have quality department that will sign and certify that there documents are true and correct. You will have to have a certification from the place you purchase the finished metal products that they conform to a recognized standard. When you receive the metal your incoming quality department will have to stamp the incoming paper work that all of the certifications and statements on the incoming paper work are correct. You will need a training roster for people that are going to machine the metals. You will need calibrated measuring tools and a quality department to inspect and certify that the parts meet the drawings. You will need an engineering department to make the drawings. You will need an accountability manager to prove to the FAA that you have all these things. All of these people, can be one person. But the roles are the same. Then of course you need 50 to 100 million in liability insurance. You can be sued for a crash of an aircraft that have your products installed for 18 years after they are manufactured (Congress passed an insurance liabilities law in the 90’s to prevent the complete death of general aviation). I am not in the business of producing aircraft parts, but that is what I understand working in a FAA repair station.
Great info.
Thanks.
Any known wing strut failures attributed to these bulkhead web cracks?
This design appears sound as there are factory reinforcement doublers attached to the back of the bulkhead on each side that span over the possible web crack areas. Also, a carry thru angle is attached to the top rear of the bulkhead that secures the floor panel and is connected to both strut attach fittings with 3 Hi Shear rivets on each side. So this arrangement seems almost failsafe as there are multiple load paths and the heavy strut attach fittings are mounted inside the door post channels.
I think it is literally a failsafe to prevent total failure if cracked. The cracks are tiny though.
Very informative video...just to clarify.....if needed, will the floor have to be cut ONLY where the covers that come with the kit will be placed or is the covers a doublers for the floor....could you do a video if a kit being installed ...thanks again
Yes, The floor is only cut to put in the reinforcements. The finished floor has those extra covers. This plane was in the shop for A firewall and some other work, so it was a great opportunity to show inside the guts of it. Filming through the missing firewall was a joy.
I knew I should have been an AP mechanic.
It's very interesting.
Would have cost Cessna about 20 bucks to add the obviously needed doublers to the design at the factory.
True.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 They aren't "obviously needed". These designs have been flying quite safely for nearly 70 years.
@@KB4QAA The problem is aluminum has a fatigue life limit. Steel does not. That is why pressurized aircraft will have a life limit on the hull.
Does the strut AD apply even if the Service Kit was done previously? thanks....
The AD only applies in that you have to inspect for cracks but there will be none if the kit was installed so it is quick and easy.
How can Cessna charge $7,000 for a simple stiffener? Pretty outrageous.
Especially as those parts were $400 before it was an AD.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Ouch.
Aging airplanes...most makes/models are dealing with something.
Very true. Keep 'em flying.
Very helpfull and very informative, thanks!! would love to ask: how could i know if my U206G and 206F are affected by this AD? european registration. Happy flights.
Wondered why you took off on that Closed runway - the BIG Yellow X.
Extra length.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Are we saying the same thing? The X means the ENTIRE runway is closed. Right?
@@mmichaeldonavon No the X is just that entry onto the runway. It's the over-run area for jets.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Here's all I know about this subject: "Runway Closures
The final runway marking you might see is pretty easy to figure out. If you see a giant yellow “X” on a runway, it means that the runway is closed. If it is a permanent closure, the X is painted on the surface, and all other markings are removed. If it is temporary, giant, moveable lighted X’s will be placed over the numbers."
As I'm always willing to learn, can you help me out with a reference? Thanks.
OMG how do they justify $7200.00?
Materials $250
Labor $400
R&D $600
Profit $1000
Insurance $4,950
Too much.
I think I'll look for a newer plane!
Remember that there are tens of thousands of strutted Cessna's out there flying about and only a very few need this. 99% of inspections at annual will find no crack and simply be another AD compiled with. This work only has to be done if there is a crack. The Comanches have the Tail and gear AD's. Bonanzas have the Spar eddy current AD. Square winged Pipers have the Spar AD etc etc. almost all need no work, but a few do. Buy a good one or buy one that is already done.
I found out the hard way today. $10,000 repair for nothing. I would not have purchased either if I knew
Mark, why are some models included in this AD and some not? Like the 172M? Thanks
Different designs do and don't need it due to their engineering I suppose. Not sure about why one 172 type would and one wouldn't. 180's and 185's have struts but they are not in it either. Totally different attach points.
So, you need to replace the big bulmerang part, or just sandwich it with the original bulmerang, or it just need to install the smaller pieces as sandwiches?
You just sandwich the old part between the new parts.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Great, thank you, Mark.
If this isn't repaired and the crack propagates, what are the possible consequences? It is unclear to me what, if anything, might occur.
If the crack goes all the way through to the bottom, it could compromise the integrity of the strut attach point, but I see what you mean. It would have to pull all that lower assembly with the casting out through the side of the plane as the wing rotates up and away. It is precautionary as are all AD's and I think more and more of this kind of stuff will come up as the global fleet ages. Methinks that Cessna did not think that their planes would still be so active 40, 50, and 60 plus years after production.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Well, yeah, some other things would have to fail before a wing would come off, but if you had a crack there and you ignored it and ignored the other signs of failing/failed structure in that area and just kept flying, ultimately the wing could well come off.
Anybody happen to know the sheet thickness of the factory installed strut carry thru bulkhead that is cracking? I think it may vary between models (172,182,206 etc.).
Any gurus out there help with this? It is much much thinner than you would expect.
Would be nice if you had a microphone so we could hear you.
Could you not hear at all or was the sound off or something because the sound is fine this end and for other people.
I had to turn the volume up on my iPad just about all the way to hear. Compared to other UA-cam videos I watch. Watch a couple of video’s from other channels then yours. I think you are trying to use the microphone on the camera and you are too far away for that to work effectively.
How do you see a crack by looking under the floor? Do you need borescope?
Once you've opened it up, you can see/feel the crack.
Hmm, Cessna group expert, flies a Mooney...
Yes, I know. I fly everything else, but for fast economical running around it's hard to beat a small sixties Mooney
Probably a potential to cause more damage to internal structures installing the kit.
It's actually a very good re-inforcement.
How is the wing strut attached to the wing itself?
It bolts on with the four huge eyelets that stick out of the carry-through spar into matching eyelets in the wing spar.
I realize I’m spitting into the wind here, but I can’t help thinking that the fix seems like overkill. Could no one repair the crack in the airplane? A crack appearing at that point seems predictable too. I’m also wondering why the strut attach part has to be replaced too as I don’t understand how a 1/2” crack could require so many new parts. Colour me puzzled 😕.
New parts and reinforcements are needed as the true extent of the damage may be beyond the small visible cracks in the corner. Also, if it was a bandaid repair the whole process would need to be repeated in another 10 or 20 years. Best to design the repair, stress it to ensure it doesn’t cause a new issue elsewhere (for example, too thick reinforcements create a steep stiffness gradient which is a stress raiser).
The attach part does not need to be replaced. Just those two little parts that I am holding. The other parts are to show what is in there. It was great to have this already firewall-less 182 to look at. This plane was in for other major work. Putting these parts in does not require this level of dissassembly. It was just handy for filming.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 I did understand that the aircraft used for the demonstration was in for other work as you did mention that as you went and you’re right it was fortunate to have it. The point of my comment was to focus on the high cost of some ADs to the owner. Many owners as I’m sure you know better than most, have sacrificed a lot to be able to own their aircraft. You can tell by the old cars they drive.😜 So even a $4000.00 kit purchase might have to be put on hold until they can scrape the cash together. That would be exactly the right way to go if it had been proven that the kit was the only safe way to go. My focused attention was the small crack. My experience has been with riveted aluminum boats. Not the same highly regulated thing, I know, but it does have similar issues with all of the stress, bumps and bruises and in many cases the grade and thickness of the aluminum are the same(depending on the manufacturer). If I understood you correctly, it’s 1/2” crack that demands a potential $7000. to $9000. AD? A small hole drilled in the path of the crack has been used to put a stop to a migrating crack for years. For additional protection, the crack itself can either be welded or even a flexible but strong epoxy applied. If that got the owner another ten years, that would be good. I, personally, am a strong supporter of safety rules and regulations, but I’m also mindful that there are more ways to skin a cat than one. The regulators could provide a range of solutions could they not?
@@TomasAWalker53 Fixing by welding is just not an option for something like that. Never mind that without removing the part from the airplane (which would require some major disassembly of the aircraft structure) you couldn't possibly get a welding electrode or torch into the location of the crack. Even if you could have the part magically transported to a welding bench, then magically transported back into position are riveted back to the rest of the aircraft structure, welding structural sheet aluminum aircraft parts is just not an option. When manufactured the part has a certain temper, whcih defines its' strength (in this case it's 2024 aluminum alloy at T-3 temper) once you weld it, it's no longer T-3, it's softened and not as strong as the original part.
@@TomasAWalker53
" The regulators could provide a range of solutions could they not? "
It's not the regulators' job to provide solutions. This is the solution Cessna has provided. Other's are free to provide alternate solutions, but they too have to be approved and supported by engineering data. It's actually not unusual for a third party to offer a solution to an airworthiness problem It you think that you have a better fix for this problem, get together with an engineer and get some supporting engineering data, and submit it to the FAA for approval. It's not going to be a cheap or easy process.
Why do those parts cost $7,000?
Because they can. It's about $25 worth of aluminium.
What the hell does AD actually mean-stand for?
AD stands for Airworthiness Directive. Like a recall on a car. A deficiency is found by the FAA and all the planes that are affected have to be inspected and fixed (at the owners expense)
Give me a good old chrome molly tube plane aka Cub Husky Stearman etc Lol
Horses for courses.
Which can rust form the inside of the tubes out. All construction methods have their advantages and disadvantages. There is no perfect, or even "best" type of construction.
That looks like a design to fail scenario. They should of put a small doubler where that little section of the part dips down in the corner.
i don't think Cessna realized that they would last 50, 60, 70 years.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Right. This was suppose to be like cars, right? Last up to 20 years, then sent to the boneyard and buy a new one.....
All unnecessary. Planes flying around just fine with the small crack. Just needs to be on a “watch” for how serious it is on a case by case basis. What a waste of money.
The FAA is a government agency.
$4000 for maybe $150-$200 of metal and hardware what a ripoff
Welcome to Aviation. At least the spar bolts for the Cherokee Wing AD are $3 each though.
$7,000 for a few little bits of aluminum?
Yes, I know, AND before this was an AD, the kit was a few hundred dollars.
The parts are made of unobtainium, not aluminum.
More the reason to buy certified!!!! Yuck!!!!!
Any of them can have this issue, but in reality, very few do and will.
Not a very strong design.
The area around the crack is described as a river of strength. The area where it cracks was described as a pool of weakness. The repair provides a stiffener, which in hindsight should have been there all along. It is a hard pill to swallow when Cessna charges an arm and a leg for the parts to repair their flaw.