Front Sight RESTRUCTURING. My Reaction (PINNED COMMENT UPDATE)
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- Опубліковано 27 січ 2022
- READ MY PINNED COMMENT FOR UPDATES.
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UPDATE: The Restructuring plan met MASSIVE backlash from members, and is currently on hold pending member input and consensus. Apparently ammo must STILL be purchased from them (a big NO from me). I'll leave this video up for now, and add updates to this pinned comment as I get them. We'll see how this plays out.
Piazza seems to be demonstrating some signs of being insane, unstable. And his multiple daily emails are most annoyingly repetitive.
I returned from Front Sight yesterday. You CAN absolutely use ammo that you bring with you. You can also buy from them the amount ammo you will use each day you are there. It was only a few cents higher than Cabela’s.
Well said! Front sight has been so sketchy for so long this is the beginning of the end.
Looks like Frontsight took a page out of Disney's book of fleecing customers. 😨
Feel bad for the folks that have invested. Bad management. Looks like that may be the demise of the business.
This is a huge rip off. As a lifetime Guardian member I am disgusted. Front sight will never get another dime from me. I'm done with it.
He sent an email yesterday that was like “just kidding. Didn’t mean it...”
Good to see a video from you !
Greatly enjoyed the bike ride vid awhile back .
Good grief, Front Site has gone down hill !!!
Thank you for the heads up !
Good to hear from you! It’s been so long since I last saw one of your videos! 👍
Thank you for the information and breakdown. Just note 📝 watching your videos on Front Sight helped me with seeking training 👍🏾
You mean someone named Dr. Ignatius Piazza ended up not being credible? No way!
LOL
One of the first questions on Google when you Google his name is, "Is Ignatius Plazza a real person?" Hahahahaha.
Rumor has it that Dr. Ignatius Piazza is starting a new venture with Col. Socrates Gossamer and Duke Benedict Viceroy.
He is a CHIROPRACTOR......they're master self-promoters.
Every time I draw my pistol with a red dot, I find my front sight to find my dot faster at the press out
I've never trained with Front Sight, but a lot of gun guys from my area seemed to have trained with them before.
This is unacceptable. If FS makes these changes then my wife and I will end our memberships.
I never heard much good about Front Sight to begin with. It was always in regards to out of date training and the instructors being plenty knowledgeable, but just not good at teaching. This video, even though the pinned comment says these plans are now on hold, really just leaves me never wanting to even consider going to FS. Especially having to buy ammo from them. I heard mostly negative for years, and this just seals the coffin. Good informative video.
Had good times at FS. Gonna miss the resource.
Bet the ammo is $$$$ premium pricing.
Thanks for the heads up!
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Sounds like Front Sight's days are numbered. No way in hell most of the members will go along with those changes.
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I guess they’re putting the last nail in their own coffin.
I used to live in Vegas and my parents lived in Pahrump. I was told to stay away from front sight back in 2008. I didn't know why?
And let the lawsuits fly! Their business model seemed to rely on people buying and not using their memberships often, with has questionable sustainability, and it appears it may not have been sustainable. It's too bad it's falling apart, but just for perspective, a Gunsite 250 course is five days for $1800 which doesn't include the required 1000 rounds of ammo (of course you can bring your own). Other top schools and courses are priced fairly close to Gunsite. Given that the $850 or so you would spend for an annual front sight course may still be a decent deal assuming the training is up to par.
Well said, and that's an important perspective.
I have heard of that place. Where is it located? Have you gone?
Good to see you posting something EDC/Gun related again.
Just came back - 7 of us went - 2 were lifetime members that gifted us a membership. We paid $400 each for a 4-day training.
It was one of THE BEST experiences I've ever had in my life! I bought and shot my first firearm in March of this year, so I wanted to do it right and my two friends who went for a 4-day in October 2021 really wanted us to try Front Sight. And I can't wait to go back next year. I feel for the members who 'lost' whatever membership offered. Hopefully the 'new' owners can relieve some of that burden and continue the awesome training with Range masters that were smart, articulate, skilled, FUNNY and best of all - patient with all levels of trainees.
The curriculum is awesome. Hopefully they maintain what I experienced and offer a 'better' managed membership program.
Man, great to see a new video of yours.
I think this will cost them in the long run. Nickle and dimeing never works. But I hope they make it back into the black.
I went because of your video. Superb training for dirt cheap. I’m satisfied with the value I received. Guess I’ll never go back
I first visited this facility about ten years ago....it took me ten MINUTES to figure it was a bogus facility; nothing but makeshift, hastily-built structures and a bunch of targets.
I will never figure out how Piazza talked thousands of people into "memberships" to this place. By the way, I visited again about two weeks ago...although it was closed,
the guy at the gate didn't mention an upcoming bankruptcy. I scanned the area from the gate...it looked exactly like it did ten years ago....no resort, no rv park....nothing.
Welcome back. Glad to see you making videos again
I've been there a few times and enjoyed the training and facilities but if this goes through, I definitely won't keep the membership. I have to travel quite a distance to get there so I already have to spend a good amount just to get there.
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Thanks for your updates and all your videos!!! Did you get banned like some of us??
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I have only been to Front sight one time and I had planned on going back for many courses. Was very sad to hear this I’m taking friends for a fun time training. Looks like that’s not gonna be happening now.I had upgraded my membership several times and acquired lots of so-called coupons to bring others. Nothing was ever in print ..they said they had it on their computers..
Thank you for the update.
They are going out of business I think
We will let our membership lapse if this is their plan. To bad. Had some good times there.
I'd like to know if they reach out to you after this video and try to get you to take it down. If I was a member of that range and they tried this I wouldn't give them another dime.
Welcome back brother
That is sad brother. Wasn’t part but appreciate you sharing this info
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I like how the Cobra Adder from the slingshot channel is wrapped on that site, it’s nice.
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Thanks for the update.
Fortunately it seems that for now things have leveled out to the way they were before, but it's certainly damaged my opinion of a place I've been several times.
I never went there because, when I thought about going I started getting their emails...they were so scammy sounding, sales pitchy, carni barker. I said nah, these guys are scumbags.
I live in Vegas....got a free membership card from a friend....visited the place.....totally makeshift buildings ...knew it was a scam within ten minutes.
Things change. If you take a four day course at Tactical Response, Thunder Ranch, Gunsight, etc. it will normally cost at least $800. The new "new" at Front Sight is certainly competitive.
The big question is this, "Is the quality of the instruction as good as these other places?". I haven't been any place else. I'm a better shooter than I was and feel I got good value for the money I spent on a membership, with a few upgrades. I think I spent about $2,000 over a 12 year period and I went 20 times. and brought friends and family with me.
Never got the shotgun. Help alot. Now this. Upset. Out due to can't afford there upgrade. Lost alot of money. Set up my family with fs now we all go down.
I don't mind making a prediction. They will fail. You can't build a successful business by strong arming your customers.
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I suppose the two-day handgun course certificate I have is no longer valid. Thanks for the info.
I never got a good vibe from Front Sight. Seemed way too gimmicky and their spam is incessant. I had to block multiple phone numbers from them and unsubscribed from their email list.
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Wow yeah, I got a commander "Lifetime" membership a couple of years ago and have been there a couple times but never took a class, and I am only 45min from the facility. I do have it say's $500 front site bucks and it still shows I can take any class for free as long as there is openings...
I guess as far as what you have stated, it may all be gone soon... We shall see...
Oh, he owes me a free knife too...
I did also get 3 shotguns from them 4 free so it was not a total loss...
I've never heard of this "front sight" place, but I'm definitely not visiting now lol.
The only thing that would make this even worse, is if they tried to go after you for taking pictures in their premises, not unheard of from other places.
It may also be that "Mr P..." was planning on constructing a Casino Resort complex as the Front Sight Firearms Training Institute was never seen as the main revenue source for his entertainment empire...
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I have a lifetime membership from 10 years ago that I’ve never used. Does that mean I’ve lost it? It sounds like it’s all too expensive now anyway.
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WTF. Very sad to hear this. I really liked them.😞 So, what do you think of the 2022 KLR 650?
I'd love to test ride that new KLR, but I doubt I'd replace my 2008 685cc (upgraded) KLR with it.
@@TheLateBoyScout 👍
Piazza sent another email a day or two ago. I would love your take on it. Cheers
I feel ripped off!!! I’ve spent 10k on memberships and upgrades and it’s all gone…
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Man, that just got worse and worse. That's so sad and disappointing.
Wow! Hope you are doing well. Welcome back. 🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗
I just checked my account and my FrontSight membership was upgraded + I got $1,100 credit!
Sounds like Front sight is done!
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Front Sight has become Rear Sight.. bye bye.
Wow… this sounds like a very bad deal…
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Sounds like Mr 🍕 was spending too much money at mister butterflies!
WOW....That's really sad to hear, I'll miss going there, they'll lose lots more 💰
I couldn't imagine spending $1k-2k on training (plus another $500-1000 on ammo for the class), unless it was 1 on 1 training. The value prop just isn't there. That's just was too much money for something you'll likely go a lifetime never using. Taking a 2 day course it's basically useless. It's like wanting to learn how to play the guitar and taking 2 classes. So you'd have to spend $15k-30k to even have the training be worth anything. Spending the money on ammo and a range membership that has a dynamic course, watching some UA-cam training videos, and practicing for 20x the number of days, is far better.
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glad to see a video from you as sad as this video is but I predict FS is going bye bye
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How about a "what happened to late boy scout " video. Long time no see.
I think he was burnt out. UA-cam ad apocalypse was also demotivating. I believe he wanted to focus more on family. I miss his channel but I understand.
Better read the contract. A contract must be equal to both parties, that is one cannot change the contract unless so authorized by the contract.
Pizzaface just filed for bankruptcy....so much for your contract.
It sounds like they want to get rid of the members because they can fill their classes with new people who are paying more. Very sad.
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Front Sight is garbage. Train local with Fieldcraft Survival.
They lowered their standards to get DG. I think they should have kept the standards on the DG high to weed out those who really shouldn't be in an advanced class.
Bad news either way they restructure, Members will still have to pay extra. I've invested several thousand in my membership but never had the time to attend, Know that I'm getting ready to retire I was hoping to spend some time out there. Not acceptable! Looks like a major class action lawsuit for breach of contract.
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And they actually think this is going to keep them alive they are insane thinking that for sure. I'll just go ride my motorcycle then put out a dime for them.
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I always believed in Dr Piazza over the years as a visionary and it seems he lost his way. Perhaps in his own doing who knows but being a Veteran and having a lifetime membership I guess we are done. Very sad indeed! A lot of people lost a lot of money and belief.
Let’s get on to the important stuff
When are you uploading more music to Spotify ?
Welcome back, finally....
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F front sight
I am a member, but after complaining to them about getting several emails a week for years they changed some setting on my account to only receive important emails. I NEVER received this one. Just triple checked. Last email from them was in October.
It's not just you. I'm also a member and just ignored their constant emails. I went thru my emails today and I also did not receive this email.
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Well… never going to one of their courses… I’m not buying ammo on-site
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Hmmm... Didn't hear about any of this. Just checked my account. Courses now $1,000-plus, lots are $2,000. Not totally out of whack, but I don't know that the instruction there (I've been there a half dozen times) is worth that. Glad to see my membership is basically worthless now... Wow.
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what happened to the housing community they were building?
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If you ever believed that, you also believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.
Looks like they will be out of business sooner than later
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I first joined FSN in the late 90s. I thought it was a PONZI scheme then, but it just went on and on and on. I last went last year, but based on what your saying it’s now out of my league. Anybody want to buy my membership? Kidding…
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There are 100x's better places to get premium training.
Farewell FS👋😎
Been there twice. We’ll worth the money then. Sounds like they’re going under. Sad.
just go to Gunsite.
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my son and i painted the asphalt driveways for our neighbors, then we painted out into the street part way, then we connected them to give a clean look to our houses. no one thanked me ( i didn't even charge anyone ), including the city -- no one said a word. in their defense, none of the neighbors or from the city asked me to paint. should i complain about it?
LBS, how many of your 213,000 subscribers joined you because you did those FS videos?
and truthfully, the restructuring was brought about in two phases where everyone was offered: 1. a yearly $500 fee, and business as usual, but when only 10% responded, 2. the daily fees, etc. you described.
we all could have been on 1. but too many short sighted cheapskates were hollering 'that's not what i signed up for!' so its 2. or nothing. the members got the FS they got by neglecting the warnings and pleas. on what planet would you get that much value for next to nothing? frankly i'm surprised it lasted as long as it did!
Sound like they're going to price themselves out of business. There's no way I'd pay that much money, when I can go elsewhere for training at much reasonable prices. They're just ridiculous in my opinion.
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It's changed again, for the better, maybe. Read the latest email from the good doc. If you do nothing, nothing changes in your membership. I'm at FS this weekend, bought into the Gold Star deal, got the 5000 F$ bucks. Although I can only purchase the ammo I need for the current course, using the bucks the cost is 10 cents on the dollar, plus tax on the retail price. Can't beat that price on ammo anywhere. Can still use my own ammo too. The pro shop has a lot of good stuff, not just a few xxxl clothes, and lefty holsters, as in years past; armory still has a lot of stuff; all for what works out to be 90% off plus tax when using F$ bucks. So apparently I'll be charged for future courses, don't know if I can use the bucks, don't know yet what other benefits of the Gold Star deal are to come, or what the Coins are good for.
Thanks for the input. I've been following those updates, and may make a follow up video.
These posts really make me scratch my head. You, enthusiastically, offer the following:
- You rallied to Frontsight's call to provide the equivalent of financial CPR;
- The Doc that prescribed the emergency CPR (the same Doc that created the emergency condition) is a "good doc";
- You got "the 5,000 F$ Bucks" (described in the e-mail as being worth an actual U.S. dollar each, so ... $5,000 value for a $50 maintenance fee);
- You can actually spend that entire $5,000 right now for ammo purchased through Frontsight;
The meaning of all this is that:
- Frontsight's terrible path toward an, admittedly, awesome vision was paved with poor financial decisions (can happen to any venture);
- In an attempt to survive the consequences of that, FS has hand-out-begged existing members to make ... poor financial decisions;
- Here's the kicker: to incentivize this, FS is promising that those suckers (or leaches, whichever shoe fits) can get cheap products which FS already spent its embattled funds on in amounts far, FAR greater in value than what the suckers (or leaches, again) have provided Frontsight.
And you call that "good doc". I'd call it "serial malpractice".
@@jimbouchardiii that was six months ago, and the situation at the time. I had signed up for a class before the meltdown, and took advantage of the offers at the time that I was there... I'm not going to pass up a bargain when I see it. Not my fault if it doesn't make financial sense to FS. Most of the deals offered over the years never seemed to make financial sense, unless the goal was to get large numbers of people to buy into them and then not make use of the deals. But when he flooded the market with memberships for next to nothing, and thousands showed up and didn't spend a dime at FS it seemed apparent it was unsustainable. I am surprised it lasted as long as it did. Personally, I spent upwards of $15K at FS. Considering that I took 25+ courses, received several good guns, and lots of other merchandise and ammo, along with many courses taken by my kids and wife, I did pretty good and have no regrets. Yeah, the "good" doc could have managed it better financially. We'll see if FS survives with it's current situation...which I haven't been following lately.
Sinking ship.
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I always wondered how front sight was able to meet its monthly expenses such as payroll without charging its members a monthly fee on top of their initial membership fee. Once you collect from somebody and not charge them anything else, you have to sell more memberships in order to meet your ongoing expenses. That’s the definition of a Ponzi scheme. I’m not sure why they need to charge this much. They literally have thousands and thousands of members. They probably could charge each member a small fee like $25 a month and cover their expenses.
John Wesley, but then how do you pay for more vacation homes and fuel your personal plane, etc., etc., ad nauseum?
@@tomkent609 I agree Tom, but here is the question. How can Front Site sell a lifetime membership for a one-time fee yet continue to pay its monthly ongoing expenses? I have been wondering that for the last few years. The way it is set up is almost like a textbook Ponzi scheme. Wouldn't it make more sense when selling lifetime memberships to require, (like time-shares do), to require an annual reasonable maintenance fee? From what I have heard, there are 260,000 members. If you charged each $200 a year, that would equate to over fifty million dollars. Personally, I purchased two lifetime memberships. If paying $200 would have been a requirement as a lifetime member, I probably would have done it. Fifty million in revenue a year undoubtedly would have prevented Front Sight from encountering financial difficulty.
John, I know you can see the sarcasm in my stated question.
You're correct, the simple reply you gave is an absolute answer to the 'problems' referred to by FS.
200$ per year is mote that enough to fund their operating costs, and then some. But perhaps not enough to satisfy the top dog. I think you know what I mean by that.
@@tomkent609 Top Dog, as in Piazza? Well it just seems like there’s an easy solution in paying about $200 a year. But Front Sight trying to charge $500 a year plus $100 a day to take a class is just obscene. That’s pretty much the same as paying full retail value for the class. It’s too bad that us, as members can’t all get together and do something since there’s a quarter million of us.
Bye Front Sight.
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This is my comment
This is my reply
Feel pretty defrauded from all my support and investment and CREDITS in the past. Pretty useless now.
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Oh boy, that kook Ignatius Piazza is going to come after you for this one!
a sucker is born every minute. most of them carry guns.
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Longtime sub here, the tone I heard in this video was…you are pretty butt hurt that you gave them free promotion and they aren’t giving YOU anything in return. If they did /do I wonder would this video have ever been made or will it just go away?
You are pretty tone deaf. The tone of the video was....Front Sight is screwing their long time members by adding a ton of additional fees.
You sound really whiny. Are you social with FS? Or do you whine everytime someone brings something like this to light?
@@charlesperry1051 Well, when i hear, "I gave them all this free publicity..." kinda sounds like he's pissed about that and how can they do this to me after what I did, maybe not. Just my take.😇👍