I have tested the massive Wipperman 7E8 ebike specific chain and found that it stretched fairly quickly. Right now I'm using ordinary KMC chains. E1 and E11 are doing very well.
what a fantastic idea to combine these two chains! I've never seen such an approach to test chains. Perfect review, thank you! what do you think? a) Can it be that the weaker part is worn-out even sooner, because 100% of the elongation occurred on just 50% of the lengt? If that is true, would the shimano chain have the double lifespan? b) does the stronger chain cause more or less wear on the front and rear sprockets? - b1 - Less wear of the sprockets might occur, if the elongation of the chain is the main reason for the sprockets wear, because the elongation leads to uneven distributed force peaks in some sprockets teeth. - b2 - More sprocket wear might occur, if the sprockets are just the weaker part of the system and therefore are worn-out before the stronger part (chain) I would guess that b2 is true. What do you guys think?
@@EMTBVideos In fact the test you didn't show is chains' stretch, that is the most obvious test which shows the wear. BTW, I don't think that Shimano manufacture the chains so most probably KMC is an OEM manufacturer and supplies chains to Shimano or some other manufacturer does it.
Thanks for making this video.iam about to replace the chain on my ebike for the first time,this is very useful information.i really enjoy your channel for what I think is totally unbiased and interesting with no bs.well done.
Great and informative video. Broke my normal Shimano 12 speed chain on my 2nd ride with a Bosch CX Motor. Waiting for the KMC E Bike version which I'm told is much stronger.
I got a feeling its just sales blurb & a way to up the price, i broke my chain a few days ago & while searching out a replacement I noticed shimano non ebike chains actually said ebike compatible on the box! So I'm gonna pick up a cheap 11speed chain & see if I can get close to 750miles before it breaks like this chain did, infact ive put a standard 11speed quicklink to rejoin old chain to see what fails 1st!
Hi there. many thanks for taking the time and effort, brilliant work. My research and experience have lead me to use KMC. At over 90kg it really matters. Your findings confirm my past experience with Shimano. Their cassettes and chain rings might be best but the Chains are not. Seems little has changed in the last 20 years and they continue to have relatively poor durability, presumably being made of softer steel. It therefore would be of good interest to compare a KMC e-bike chain with the KMC 10-73. If it’s not too much trouble!
We are currently comparing the KMC E10 against the Shimano E6090. So both are ebike specific. Next up is the same chains in 11s. We'll keep it in mind if we decide to do more tests.
You can measure the chain stretch by laying the chain on the floor against a tape measure with inch markers. After how many inches do you have a 90 degree phase shift? Then work out the stretch. Your results should be accurate to about 0.05% if you know what you're doing.
Awesome! I was going to ask if Shimano's ebike chain would fit on a non-ebike system for a bike that is converted with a motor, but I guess I'm better off buying the "normal" chain from KMC!
ebike specific chain are longer , and when you have 10s cassette 11-48 and 40t chainring you seek for 122 link 10s chain , KMC 10.93 is not long enough , as well as almost 10s chain (116L)
Hi Sebastien. Could you please be a bit more specific with the brand of your cassette? We are currently running 2 identical ebikes. Both have 750w Bafang with 42t Bling ring and shimano cs-m4100 11-46t. Needless to say we are going through a lot of chains and a lot kilometers. Our Leckie Bling Rings are hold up just fine, yet some cogs on our cassettes are eating u$$$...
Hello which chain model would you suggest to use for such cassette (10 speed, 11-48 chaininring)? I broke my chain, it's been a long suffering of trying different chains that wouldn't fit my ebike. Any recommendations please??
Been breaking x10's like crazy here on my e-mtb 2 per week brand new. Going to start shifting like my old manual transmissions from back in the day in my Volkswagens. 🤣One thing I have definitely learned with an e-mtb, carry 3 or 4 quick link sets with you. Oh yea, and never shift under load and go ahead and do the biggest cog when you can spin before the big technical climb. :) I would have to say if it was all my shifting, it would seem that I would have bent some teeth on the cassette already, but no; still looks fine.
So the problem with simply swapping out the chain is the same problem with using a plastic gear against a metal one. Ideally you want the wear to occur on the cheapest or most easily replicable part. A stronger chain made of harder alloys will wear on your gears more. The question is, do you want to reduce wear on the gears by using a chain that needs replacing, or reduce the wear on the chain by replacing the gear assembly? Personally, I would rather carry around a spare chain.
Yeah, swapping chains often enough to prevent cassette wear is preferable. But a durable chain doesn't necessarily wear down the chainring and cassette faster. The chain wear happens between the pins and the plates, increasing the distance between the pins. This means the chain is gripping fewer cassette teeth, increasing cassette wear. A chain that develops play between plates and pins slower will distribute the load more evenly over the cog, reducing cassette wear.
Hello please what would be an alternative chain model from KMC for the X10.73?? This model seem to be discontinued now, or at least not available in my country. The original chain was Shimano e6090. Thanks for sharing BTW!
Yeah, KMC has only got two 10-speed versions now. The X10 with and without the EPT antirust coating. None off them are labeled Extremely Durable, like the X10.73. Haven't tested the new X10, so I don't know how it compares, unfortunately. The old 10.73 is still available in webshops in a few countries, depending on how much you want it (:
@@EMTBVideosThanks for replying )). Well I finally managed to find a 10s chain that's made specifically for E-bikes. It's YBN s10e, haven't got it yet. Hopefully it works fine. I have had YBN chains on regular bikes before, they last long and overall offers good quality for little price. Though the s10e ebike chain is almost as expensive as Shimano.
Hey, great testing idea! thanks! What kind of riding do you do? I do enduro / enduro-trail, and I was wondering if diferent disciplines (different stress on the chain) may outcome in different results in a test like this. Cheers!
A lot of the riding for this particular test was done while commuting with a Shimano E6000 motor. The second part was done with a Bosch Performance CX gen2 emtb. Riding both trails and puling a trailer with kids. Chain wear was much worse during the second part of the test.
@@EMTBVideos Ok, Trails and pilling a Trailer, then. It's interesting that you noticed a bigger wear pulling a trailer rather than riding trails, I surely would state the opposite if I were asked about it hahaha... wrongly of course. Good discoverings about the chains behaviours, thanks for your answer. Cheers!
@@alecfunes5645 That's not what I meant. I noticed more wear with the more powerful bike that was used for both trails and trailer. Compared to the less powerful commuter.
No don’t fall for it unless your ebike is 1,000 watts then you just look at tougher chains if your ebike is 350 to 500 watts a standard chain will work. FYI don’t be stupid like me and leave your bike at high gear this will cause stress on your chain and cause it to snap you need to shift with your ebike this was a $30 mistake that I won’t be repeating.
don't you want the chain to wear out faster as this means (if replaced when due) that there is less wear on the cassette? If the chain last longer, that may mean there is more wear on the chain teeth? Not sure my logic is sound but worth investigating.
When a chain wears out, it is stretching. If you use a chain that is ever so slightly too long, you will not distribute the pedalling force evenly over the cogs. The force will be applied only to the first tooth on the cog, or the first few teeth. This is increasing cassette and chainring wear. But if a more durable chain is also made from a harder metal, one can imagine the cassette wear could increase. The test method used in this video will not work for such a test, but I'll consider if this is something I'm able to test.
That's not what chain manufacturers claim. They claim that their e-bike specific chains will last longer and will not stretch as fast as conventional chain. And it is just marketing BS as we can see. I just use conventional chain on my e-bike, it lasts same time as e-bike chain and it is 3 times cheaper.
Yeah, testing 10 speed chains was already getting a bit outdated when we did the test 3 years ago. With some luck, we'll start the test of KMC chains next month. Only 10 and 11 speed though. It's gonna take a while to wear them out. 12 speed will come a few weeks later.
I have tested the massive Wipperman 7E8 ebike specific chain and found that it stretched fairly quickly. Right now I'm using ordinary KMC chains. E1 and E11 are doing very well.
Nice video! It would be great to compare ebike chain from KMC with regular KMC like used in this test. :)
I've been using KMC X10 chains for 10 years and I think they are fantastic. Long wear, no breaks...brilliant.
They are shit. If every dumbass praises them on forums it doesn't mean it's a good product especially for those ebikes!
what a fantastic idea to combine these two chains!
I've never seen such an approach to test chains. Perfect review, thank you!
what do you think?
a) Can it be that the weaker part is worn-out even sooner, because 100% of the elongation occurred on just 50% of the lengt? If that is true, would the shimano chain have the double lifespan?
b) does the stronger chain cause more or less wear on the front and rear sprockets?
- b1 - Less wear of the sprockets might occur, if the elongation of the chain is the main reason for the sprockets wear, because the elongation leads to uneven distributed force peaks in some sprockets teeth.
- b2 - More sprocket wear might occur, if the sprockets are just the weaker part of the system and therefore are worn-out before the stronger part (chain)
I would guess that b2 is true.
What do you guys think?
@@EMTBVideos thanks for your answer's!
@@EMTBVideos In fact the test you didn't show is chains' stretch, that is the most obvious test which shows the wear.
BTW, I don't think that Shimano manufacture the chains so most probably KMC is an OEM manufacturer and supplies chains to Shimano or some other manufacturer does it.
Thank you....I have been wondering about this since I upgraded and added a mid drive to my Paratrooper.
Thanks for making this video.iam about to replace the chain on my ebike for the first time,this is very useful information.i really enjoy your channel for what I think is totally unbiased and interesting with no bs.well done.
Really good test, very informative and useful. Thanks.
KMC chains are brilliant, I have one on my road bike that is still only at .5 after 6 years of regular riding.
So you're telling us you don't use your bike much? A little more info concerning distance covered would be helpful here.
Great and informative video. Broke my normal Shimano 12 speed chain on my 2nd ride with a Bosch CX Motor. Waiting for the KMC E Bike version which I'm told is much stronger.
How did the kmc e12 go ?
I got a feeling its just sales blurb & a way to up the price, i broke my chain a few days ago & while searching out a replacement I noticed shimano non ebike chains actually said ebike compatible on the box! So I'm gonna pick up a cheap 11speed chain & see if I can get close to 750miles before it breaks like this chain did, infact ive put a standard 11speed quicklink to rejoin old chain to see what fails 1st!
Hi there. many thanks for taking the time and effort, brilliant work. My research and experience have lead me to use KMC. At over 90kg it really matters. Your findings confirm my past experience with Shimano. Their cassettes and chain rings might be best but the Chains are not. Seems little has changed in the last 20 years and they continue to have relatively poor durability, presumably being made of softer steel. It therefore would be of good interest to compare a KMC e-bike chain with the KMC 10-73. If it’s not too much trouble!
We are currently comparing the KMC E10 against the Shimano E6090. So both are ebike specific. Next up is the same chains in 11s. We'll keep it in mind if we decide to do more tests.
You can measure the chain stretch by laying the chain on the floor against a tape measure with inch markers. After how many inches do you have a 90 degree phase shift? Then work out the stretch. Your results should be accurate to about 0.05% if you know what you're doing.
Great video! Thanks for the clear information! I'm on my way to get a KMC chain. Thanks again.
Good information. I'm curious if you are going to have similar results for a 12 speed chain since those are thinner.
Awesome! I was going to ask if Shimano's ebike chain would fit on a non-ebike system for a bike that is converted with a motor, but I guess I'm better off buying the "normal" chain from KMC!
Welp. RIP me. Already bought an E6090 for future use.
Hopefully I'm light enough (65kg) that the chain won't wear out this fast.
Really clever idea and so helpful - thank you.
Thank you for the video. Just bought 10 and 11 speed kmc chains for my and my gf bikes 🙂
ebike specific chain are longer , and when you have 10s cassette 11-48 and 40t chainring you seek for 122 link 10s chain , KMC 10.93 is not long enough , as well as almost 10s chain (116L)
Hi Sebastien.
Could you please be a bit more specific with the brand of your cassette?
We are currently running 2 identical ebikes. Both have 750w Bafang with 42t Bling ring and shimano cs-m4100 11-46t. Needless to say we are going through a lot of chains and a lot kilometers. Our Leckie Bling Rings are hold up just fine, yet some cogs on our cassettes are eating u$$$...
Hello which chain model would you suggest to use for such cassette (10 speed, 11-48 chaininring)? I broke my chain, it's been a long suffering of trying different chains that wouldn't fit my ebike. Any recommendations please??
@@BlaCkPeaRlBlaCkBerRy yes , try 10V SHIMANO HG95 SILTEC XT - 138 maillons
Yeah, this test was done on a bike with the 15t bosch gen2 chainring and 42t cassette. That was pretty much the biggest cassette back then.
@@sebastiengiovannelli8556 I ordered YBN chain already, though I will it mind. Thanks ))
They still sell junk chains like the Shimano cn-e6090 for 50€+. We need more UNFUNDED AND NEUTRAL chain tests like this.
Been breaking x10's like crazy here on my e-mtb 2 per week brand new. Going to start shifting like my old manual transmissions from back in the day in my Volkswagens. 🤣One thing I have definitely learned with an e-mtb, carry 3 or 4 quick link sets with you. Oh yea, and never shift under load and go ahead and do the biggest cog when you can spin before the big technical climb. :) I would have to say if it was all my shifting, it would seem that I would have bent some teeth on the cassette already, but no; still looks fine.
Really still breaking?
So the problem with simply swapping out the chain is the same problem with using a plastic gear against a metal one. Ideally you want the wear to occur on the cheapest or most easily replicable part. A stronger chain made of harder alloys will wear on your gears more. The question is, do you want to reduce wear on the gears by using a chain that needs replacing, or reduce the wear on the chain by replacing the gear assembly?
Personally, I would rather carry around a spare chain.
Yeah, swapping chains often enough to prevent cassette wear is preferable. But a durable chain doesn't necessarily wear down the chainring and cassette faster. The chain wear happens between the pins and the plates, increasing the distance between the pins. This means the chain is gripping fewer cassette teeth, increasing cassette wear. A chain that develops play between plates and pins slower will distribute the load more evenly over the cog, reducing cassette wear.
Thank you for video. Can You please compare kmc ebike specific chain like e10 vs kmc x10.73?
What a great idea ! Time to start putting all these supposed e-bike chains to the test.
Interesting. Watching this after snapping a brand new kmc x8 on its second ride. Full motor assist, steep incline.
Excellent review thank you.
Have you tried the Sram ex1 ?
Hello please what would be an alternative chain model from KMC for the X10.73?? This model seem to be discontinued now, or at least not available in my country. The original chain was Shimano e6090.
Thanks for sharing BTW!
Yeah, KMC has only got two 10-speed versions now. The X10 with and without the EPT antirust coating. None off them are labeled Extremely Durable, like the X10.73. Haven't tested the new X10, so I don't know how it compares, unfortunately. The old 10.73 is still available in webshops in a few countries, depending on how much you want it (:
@@EMTBVideosThanks for replying )). Well I finally managed to find a 10s chain that's made specifically for E-bikes. It's YBN s10e, haven't got it yet. Hopefully it works fine. I have had YBN chains on regular bikes before, they last long and overall offers good quality for little price. Though the s10e ebike chain is almost as expensive as Shimano.
Very good thanks. Yes, it is just one test but still.....
Thanks for the testing.i just purchased Bafang electric 750 bike motor. Any sugges about a strong chain? This is very new in sweden.
For 10-speed I often go KMC, and I would consider testing the ebike specific KMC 10s chain.
Hey, great testing idea! thanks! What kind of riding do you do? I do enduro / enduro-trail, and I was wondering if diferent disciplines (different stress on the chain) may outcome in different results in a test like this. Cheers!
A lot of the riding for this particular test was done while commuting with a Shimano E6000 motor. The second part was done with a Bosch Performance CX gen2 emtb. Riding both trails and puling a trailer with kids. Chain wear was much worse during the second part of the test.
@@EMTBVideos Ok, Trails and pilling a Trailer, then. It's interesting that you noticed a bigger wear pulling a trailer rather than riding trails, I surely would state the opposite if I were asked about it hahaha... wrongly of course. Good discoverings about the chains behaviours, thanks for your answer. Cheers!
@@alecfunes5645 That's not what I meant. I noticed more wear with the more powerful bike that was used for both trails and trailer. Compared to the less powerful commuter.
Am going to this too. I heard one can also use 10s chains in 11speed systems. What do you think?
No don’t fall for it unless your ebike is 1,000 watts then you just look at tougher chains if your ebike is 350 to 500 watts a standard chain will work. FYI don’t be stupid like me and leave your bike at high gear this will cause stress on your chain and cause it to snap you need to shift with your ebike this was a $30 mistake that I won’t be repeating.
Used kmc chains for the last 10 years, i don't use any other..
Thank you very much you have saved me £20.
What's the best ebike chain for now?
I bought the Shimano 2 twice.. both come from india 🇮🇳 ... Kmc is specifically made in usa...!!!???
kmc is dutch
Me too !
don't you want the chain to wear out faster as this means (if replaced when due) that there is less wear on the cassette? If the chain last longer, that may mean there is more wear on the chain teeth? Not sure my logic is sound but worth investigating.
When a chain wears out, it is stretching. If you use a chain that is ever so slightly too long, you will not distribute the pedalling force evenly over the cogs. The force will be applied only to the first tooth on the cog, or the first few teeth. This is increasing cassette and chainring wear. But if a more durable chain is also made from a harder metal, one can imagine the cassette wear could increase. The test method used in this video will not work for such a test, but I'll consider if this is something I'm able to test.
@@EMTBVideos What would be interesting would be to run the KMC chain for a season, then measure sprocket teeth wear vs the Ebike chain.
Teflon lube helps also
It's not about the wear. Ebike chains are engineered for higher touque, not to last longer.
That's not what chain manufacturers claim. They claim that their e-bike specific chains will last longer and will not stretch as fast as conventional chain. And it is just marketing BS as we can see.
I just use conventional chain on my e-bike, it lasts same time as e-bike chain and it is 3 times cheaper.
Good to believe. Better to face the reality 😁
This video is rather outdated. The KMC ebike chain is a must on high end ebikes.
Yeah, testing 10 speed chains was already getting a bit outdated when we did the test 3 years ago. With some luck, we'll start the test of KMC chains next month. Only 10 and 11 speed though. It's gonna take a while to wear them out. 12 speed will come a few weeks later.
No it's not
I’m using cheap SRAM NX chain on 11 speed (E8000) and I can do 1500km with them. Ebike specific stuff is BS in my opinion.
You obviously know nothing about how crank mounted motor e bikes put the power down then.
@@steve_and_lolas_hikes The video had the same conclusion but please, enlighten me...
@@tamasvarga67 not really, regular s10 chains been giving me hell of problem.
@@BlaCkPeaRlBlaCkBerRy I’m over 6000km with my Meta Power and used nothing but PC1110 without breaking any of them and I’m on the 4th one.
@@tamasvarga67 what are the cessette chaninrings smallest/largest??