M1 Carbine to 500yds Practical Accuracy
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
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While the M1 Carbine is light weight and small "rifle", its no doubt left one of the heaviest imprints on small arms development.
Many still debate on whether one could call the M1 Carbine a PDW, but in reality it did more than just explore a new class of small arms. The M1 Carbine and M1 Garand broke the mold of warfare with bolt action rifles and SMGs. The two firearms directly inspired a new classification of firearms that went to underscore warfare in the 20th and then 21st century... with the Kalashnikov rifles in Soviet Russia.
Thanks @MikeB128 for helping us with the top!
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I should really expand upon this, Kalashnikov didn't design the 7.62x39, but rather there was an arms development committee charged to design the 7.62x39 in 1943.
Summer 1943, the committee used two rifles and ammunition mainly for research, a captured German Mkb42/STG44 in 7.92x33 and lend-lease U.S. M1 Carbine in 7.62x33 (.30 carbine).
Out of this program eventually came the first version of the M43 cartridge, which was the 7.62x41mm. Subsequently changed in 1946 to 7.62x39mm and designated the new cartridge for developing a new family of small arms, which is where Kalashnikov fits in.
So Kalashnikov did not design the 762x39 (I don't believe I said he did), but the .30 Carbine ABSOLUTELY had a major influence on Kalashnikov's rifle as it was one of the inspiration cartridges for the chambering.
Awesome information
Makes sense that in formulating an intermediate cartridge in the mid-late 1940s', the soviets would look at the only 2 real examples that came before.
Well attributed sir, I think that accurately covers the relationship between the early intermediate ammunition development.
In 1944 Kalashnikov did build prototype of a carbine, that used the original 7,62x41 M43 ammo. He lost than the weapon trial to the Simonov's SKS rifle. It's not mentioned connection between his later AK rifle and him being inspired by M1 Garand design.
When they surplused a bunch of m1 carbine, they, us government, suddenly realized that they give out sbrs because the barrels of rifles at that time were supposed to be 18, not 16in. The government decided to lower the barrel length limit to 16 in to cover their butts.
You're absolutely welcome man. I love the fact that you like to wear clothing appropriate for what you're shooting.
It's MikeB!!!
The larp lives loudly within him
Inland was sorted out more than the Gucci manufacturers. Biggest issue is that they are additive. You can't just have one.
I got a sick pair of boots from your site, thanks!
You're a real one, Mike.
I think Ken Hackathorn said it best in regards to the proliferation of the M1 carbine, it was his generation's AR-15. Their handy working rifle.
Paul Harrell has made similar comments, and it definitely makes sense.
I'll go one step further and suggest that it might've been a better general issue rifle than the M1 Garand. Smaller, lighter cartridge with less recoil; detachable magazines with higher capacity; later on it had full auto capability and wasn't too uncontrollable: very forward thinking for its time.
Having owned an M-1 Carbine, an AR, and carrying an M-16 n the service, I would say, the M-1 carbine would have been my preferred weapon to carry in combat if I had fought in WW2 and Korea. It was light, fast firing, easy to reload, you could carry plenty of ammunition, and it was fairly accurate to the ranges of most combat. My grandad, a WW2 vet, carried one and also compared it to my AR. Add in the full auto capability of the later M-2 and it would have been a done deal.
It’s a perfect light recon/patrol rifle . I read one account from a guy who fought in Burma, and he was a national match marksman. He always took a carbine with him on patrol or for close ambush. My great uncle carried one in Italy.
They're a handy ranch rifle to have on a quad or on a saddle
My 92 year old father carried a "m2"carbine in Korea. I gave him a m1 about 10 years ago. It was like a reunion with an old friend. He gave it back due to failing eyesight. He loved this weapon and claims he would have died without it. Thanks for making this video. Also he claims it was lethal and guys who claimed otherwise were crappy shots.
My favorite myths/lore about the M1 carbine is them not being able to penetrate German winter coats because of the material, but yet 45 out of a Thompson was never said to have any issues with that lol. Germans also loved to capture and use these things during the war for a multitude of reasons. Makes sense as to why they ended up using them post war after the fact. Great urban fighting firearm. (Edit: see comment below for the specifics of Germans using M1 carbines, I’ll be posting links to info later)
Genuinely impressed with it getting hits at 300+ yards though great video
I think there were similar stories from the Korean war too, and they of course ended with the .45 acp being the elephant killer lol
300+? 350y already gave him a hard time!
French also liked them during ww2 and was there rifle just after ww2
What is your source for claiming the Germans loved to use these? I’ve heard it before but I’ve only seen them in the staged photos of Kampfgruppe Hansen from December 1944.
@@fridrekr7510 I mean its semi auto, lighter, how is it not superior to the typical kar98k? Just makes sense.
One of the other fun things I like about the M1 Carbine is that through its surplus sale in C&R program, it caused the NFA to move minimum barrel lengths back to 16in from 18in.
Lol, so anything under a m16 was considered short barrel in initial drafts?
@@CtrlAltRetreat Ian did a really good job covering this topic, so I defer to the expert from Tucson. He starts talking about it around the 6 min mark. ua-cam.com/video/lsE0naVApPU/v-deo.htmlsi=NGl6EBkX7lCeWAcL
The M16 has a 20” barrel. The 18” minimum length was probably either an arbitrary number to match the short barreled shotgun length of 18”, and both were probably based on popular carbines that were around at the time such as the Winchester lever action rifles and carbines. The most common commercial short rifles had 18” or 19” barrels.
@@jonathanbirkeland1085 you're probably right. I just checked my win94 and it's running a 18"
Forgotten weapons has a video talking about this. M1 carbines were being surplussed and it wasn't until many tens or hundreds of thousands of rifles were in the public domain that they realized were technically all SBRs. The government had some common sense and updated the definition of SBR to reduce barrel length and decriminalization all the Carbines in circulation.
The M1 Carbine was well thought of in British service. It was the issue weapon of the SAS late war and used by the SBS. It was also issued in limited numbers in the Far East and used by British Airborne troops in the Med. Post war it was a popular weapon when available. I served with some experienced people who had used it who thought it an excellent weapon.
WW2 British sniper and instructor Capt. Shore, who wrote "With British Snipers to the Reich", considered the M1 Carbine the ideal emergency CQB weapon for the spotter to carry. And many of his fellow snipers agreed. They figured it was good for fast accurate head or body shots out to 200m, it was lighter and faster shooting and reloading than a standard Lee Enfield rifle, and had more power and accuracy than the other choices - the Sten or Thompson SMGs. Perfect for situations where enemy squads were closing in on the sniper team and trying to rush them.
I would love you guys to rerun the course with the later style adjustable sight and see if the results improve in any significant way. I’d also like to see Josh run one of his courses with the carbine, since those would be more analogous to the type of action it was meant to perform in instead of long-range.
@ultrablue2 Even the adjustable rear sight like mine has is only up to 300 yards. I doubt its going to make that big of a difference from the fixed original rear sight. Now if you put a small 4x scope on it, it will do better because the scope helps bring the bullet groups in better. The problem with the scope I had on mine at one time was the scope mount kept deflecting/kicking hot brass down on my shooting hand. So I went back to the irons sights that I prefer better anyway. I have used it to hunt deer with using soft point ammo. Its effective accurate range is still about 250 yards. Keep it within its range limitations and it will do the job.
@@rbm6184 : I don’t disagree, but it would still be interesting to see.
@@ultrablue2 Get to it then bubba. Be sure to post your results on line because NO ONE CARES.
Can you use M1 carbines in USPSA PCC matches? I wanna use mine but my local USPSA representative told me they aren't and never were!
I got my first M1 carbine at age 17, in 1990, for $150.
I remember those days. In the 80s m1 carbine. 125.00. Sks 79.00, Mosin nagant m44 or 91 40 to 80 dollars. Usa .223 3.00 bucks. 9mm 6.50 box of 50. I wish I had a rime machine.
Yep.
I remember several friends getting sks brand new packed in grease for $100!
Rime machines are great, to be sure.
LUUUCKY!
I was 13 when I purchased my first 2 M1 carbines. There was a wood barrel full of them at the local hardware store with a sign "25.00 ea. Your choice". I got two of them and 500 rds of ammo for $65.00 out the door. 60 years later I still have both, one Winchester and one Postal Meter.
I regret not buying an M1 carbine but at the time they were $1k+. That was the same price as a decently clean and matching M1 rifle
I bought one when they were $300. I should have bought 10 or more.
Surely you can get one for under 1k. That is so high
@@007NateNastythese days they go for even more
@@007NateNastynot many are for sale locally except for Fudds at gunshows who “know what they have.” 😒
@@007NateNastyany usgi M1 carbine for $900 is going to be a piece of junk
You absolutely went well beyond the limits of the M1.
Good shooting, good spotting.
Well done.
Yep if Henry can't hit it, "IT" can't be hit.
My grandad a SeaBee in WW II carried one in all three of the islands he fought on (Guam, Layte, and Okinawa). He was wounded three times. Anyway super nice to see this carbine on your channel.
My grandfather was an aviation machinist mate on the Marianas and he said the seabees saved their ass a few times, he had a lot of respect for them , and told me he would be dead if it weren't for them . He fixed corsairs on the flight line and got strafed almost daily . Lost some good friends .
Mine was an army artilleryman in New Guinea and the Philippines and carried one as well. I'm not sure if he ever fired it in anger or not as he never really was willing to talk about the war before he passed away.
There are Tons of Left over M-1 and M-2 Paratrooper Carbines in the PHILIPPINES..
carried by G.I.s from the Liberation of the Philippines in 1944.
It is safe to assume that 99.9% of the M-l carbines in the PHILIPPINES are of WW2-Vintage.
My dad was stationed on Guadalcanal 1943-44 Army AAA unit. He spoke highly of the M1 Carbine and was issued one as his duty weapon while in the Solomons.
My grandfather was also a SeaBee liberating Guam with a M1 Carbine (maybe they knew each other). I still have it.
I was a rural North Carolina Deputy Sheriff in the early 1980’s and we were not issued rifles. We only had three Deputies covering a 600 square mile county. We were allowed to carry our own rifles and for years I carried an Inland 30 cal and never felt outgunned. 30 round mag in weapon with two 15 rounds on butt stock! This backed up my S&W Model 586 .357 with 18 rounds and Remington 870!
Wise choice, much more powerful than the average person would assume.
Our local town constable carried a 357 revolver and a lever action 357 carbine so he only needed one type of ammo. He was once involved in a shootout with a bank robber who had an SKS. Our local cop had a Bronze Star from Vietnam and when asked whether he was scared during the shootout he replied "it's not the first time I've been shot at by one of those."
I got a later pattern M1 Carbine that was imported out of South Korea. Picked it up at a gun show a few years ago for $900 (it came with a 15 rounder, a 30 rounder and 300 rounds of ammo). It’s fairly accurate despite its age, but I personally couldn’t get it to hit passed 300. I was amazed to see you guys make hits at 400. That was some damn fine shooting Henry!
The rear sight was designed for the 45acp, there are videos out there about that.
My dad served in Patton's third army. He got in late as he was trained on anti-aircraft systems that by the time of the invasion were not necessary. He was retrained in radio communications and would ride around in the jeeps with officers, often coordinating artillery strikes. He carried an M1 carbine. There wasn't much about his experience he talked about until close to his death, he only had positive things to say about his m1 carbine, many of the other things he experienced not so much.
There's a technique I used to use when I would shoot longer range (50-100yds) with a red Ryder BB gun that could have been helpful here. You align the rear sight with the center of the base of the front sight (raising the front sight up and out of the groove and then aim with just st the tip of the front sight. It gets additional elevation.
My Uncle Verne walked across North Africa, Sicily, then France and Germany carrying an M1 carbine and a .45-he survived the war when many didn't.
My dad's weapon of choice, he was in signals and did not need a bigger shooting iron for his business at hand. He said it was good enough to keep the enemies head down while he and his driver could get away.
I believe you might have the very common problem of a tight spot in the bore where the barrel is threaded into the receiver. This can be lapped out and will frequently make a no-foolin' shooter out of a so-so Carbine. My Inland and Underwood Carbines will both stay on an "E" silhouette at 300 yds, prone/bipod, while shooting fairly rapidly. I have installed them in the Choate fixed stock, with the Ultimak forward rail and simple red dots in QD mounts, junked the bayonet mounts, polished all the friction surfaces in the lockwork, gave them fresh spring kits, replaced the rear sights with Williams 5Ds, and put sling swivel studs at the bottom centerline where they belong. Being able to use a bipod or a real high-power type shooting sling gives the Carbine a whole new lease on long-range work. The Williams sights allow me to dial way in excess of the issue sights' elevation. I generally keep the red dots zeroed at 100 yd and the irons at 200. These are our rural living, front- and back-door guns.
Late 90's early 2000's I was issued a M1 Carbine as a volunteer Police officer in Israel. Had the curved mags and got myself a modern poly furniture with a folding stock (much like a Galil or FAL). Got a simple scope on PIC rail zeroed for 50 meters and this was my long gun for my off road / ATV unit as well as urban patrols and road stops and barricades.
The M1 carbine was designed to give better reach to troops normally armed with a pistol. It wasn't expected to be used past 300 yards as they were supposed to be using their primary i.e. mortar or MG to engage targets beyond that.
Thanks, I have to concur. Designed to replace a pistol, the M1 Carbine is a great close combat rifle, just never intended for long range.
loved hearing the reference to Paul Harrell and his meat targets ........love it
When I watch the older Practical Accuracy videos I feel so cheated because some of them don’t have the 30 plus minutes of debrief conversation.
Another great video guys!
This video put a huge smile on my face. I think it performed well for what it is. Hope I see more “PDW” type weapons on the 500 yard course. Especially 5.7x28 since it’s becoming more popular recently
As great as that would be, I really don't think there'd be enough energy to make the hits visible at those ranges. If you go and watch some of the .223 or 5.45mm guns they've shot, the spotting becomes a real challenge, and that'll be even worse for a pistol caliber.
I'd still love them to give it a go though
@@peteg22397 5.7 and m1 carbine have similar trajectories. While the 30 carbine has more energy, modern 5.7 guns tend to be way way more accurate. So I think it would be a interesting comparison
Lol
"5.7 has a similar trajectory to 30 carbine", stop the cap, bro.
@@andreivaldez2929 Run a ballistic calculator and see for yourself
The sheer numbers produced during WWII is impressive. It is allowed at indoor pistol range and is fun to take once in a while.
That run is only a 'failure' if Henry can outshoot it with an M1911A1.
Great video, great little gun. The regret of not buying one when they were well under $1k will never subside.
No, it really is a failure. The enemy doesn't care if your gun is or isn't more effective than a 1911. If you can't hit then and they can hit you, you're f*cked.
My dad was trained and carried one in the USAF during Vietnam. He bought one for me in the late 90’s as my second milsurp (IBM receiver and barrel). I love shooting it in IDPA matches and will be the first center fire my youngest shoots and is passed down.
I have watched every episode of practical accuracy. This achievement, with that trajectory and those sights, is probably the most impressive yet.
I think this performance really does explain some of the rumors that originated from Korea. Specifically, the winter coat thing. Yeah, it's understood today that the troops weren't having trouble penetrating the heavy wool coats of Chinese soldiers. They were simply missing the target. However, I really think this video explains WHY they were missing the target with enough frequency to generate rumors of that sort.
That, and combat is very fast and confusing. People think they see things that didn't really happen.
Considering they also were firing in the dark, without flash suppressors on most of their weapons, with irons, they may as well be firing at moving blobs past 50 meters instead of individual targets unless artillery was blasting off star shells regularly.
@@Verdha603 yup. That is the very reason why most infantry combat takes place inside 150m. Beyond that, it's just really hard to see your targets.
PLUS, the full-auto M2s are very hard to control and troops used FA a lot.
The M1 carbine was the cool gun of my youth, along with perhaps a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 lever action. I watch a lot of WW2 combat footage and, though the M1 carbine was supposedly a 2nd line gun, I see numerous frontline infantry guys carrying them.
In the Netherlands it's still a very popular rifle alongside the Garand to have, we've used them due to the huge amount of Allied surplus we had after the war. Police kept using them uo until their replacement by the MP5.
How are the laws regarding semi autos over there? I know Europe is a hodge podge of different laws on guns
I'm also curious as to what the laws are like over there with autoloading rifles like the M1 Carbine.
Love the original M1 carbine setup like you have here, same way I have my 1943 underwood set up. You can see all the reason they made the improvements with the lever safety instead of crossbolt, the adjustable rear sight instead of two aperture, the bayonet lug instead of not mounting a knife to your rifle, etc. but having it in this configuration is so simple and practical.
3:25 I love how, if watching closely, you can actually see that 110gr FMJ arc through the air and impact near the lower head of the target. Always a pleasure to see such things.
I adore the M1 Carbine, but I understand its limitations. With modern ammunition (Speer Gold Dot, Hornady Critical Defense, etc), the War Baby is still a surprisingly viable defensive carbine within 150 yards and makes a wonderful home defense carbine.
My first centerfire semi was grandpas M1 carbine bought for $25 in 1960. It really cemented my enjoyment with military arms. Collected them for a while. Super fun, still have a Postal Meter and lots of 1969 USGI Lake City to feed it.
An underappreciated rifle.
The top range setting on a carbine with the adjustable sight is 300 yards, dependent on the 100 yard setting being correct on target.
I’ll never forget when I was a kid my dad having cans of 30 carbine surplus ammo in stripper clip bandoleers to take to the range and shoot the venerable carbine. ..Pepperidge farm remembers 🤔👏🏻
My Grandpa did the Island Hopping & after the War he said NO ONE wanted the Thompson or M1 Carbine.
He'd tell us the Thompson was too heavy with low power & the M1 Carbine was too weak to rely on, M1 Garand was the only pick for his job, he said.
God Bless our Troops 🇺🇲
Weird given how germans would do everything they could to steal one. The enemy respected the m1 more than the soldiers holding it.
Respect to your grandpa for his service
M1 carbine is clearly more than adequate to do the intended job. Numerous test have shown that if it did not kill your woolen clothed man at 200 yards, it was because you missed. An easy thing to do with just iron sights.
Pick up a copy of "Shots Fired in Anger: A Rifleman's Eye View of the Activities on the Island of Guadalcanal" by by John B. George . It's available in hard cover, paperback, and Kindle and can be found online.
FWIW, my father landed in Europe in January 1944 and carried one but he only used as a tent pole so he said. His brother landed at Utah Beach on D-Day +1 carrying a mine detector and a carbine and was in Bastogne.
My grandfather was 82nd field artillery out of Ft Bliss and got himself a 45acp Reising submachine gun that he carried from the battle of Los Negros Island to Leyte and fighting through the mountains to joining the Flying Column to Manila and rescue of the POW camp. Only bad thing he ever said about it was that it rusted easily and so he Shellaced it. In the flying column said they passed Japs going the other way in vehicles and just sprayed them down without slowing. Also told me guys with bolt guns were not wanted only automatics. Wish I'd have asked if any Jap machine guns were used by them
My grandfather spent 38 months in the Pacific with the 27th Infantry as a combat engineer. I have a lots of pics from him on the islands during the war and there's not a weapon to be seen in any of them. He mostly operated bulldozers clearing beaches and building airstrips. Sometimes you can see an M1 Garand in a scabbard mount on a bulldozer, but that's it for weapons. He never talked about carrying a weapon but did talk about training with the M1 Garand during basic training.
As an Xennial whose generation and younger typically goes to the AR15 and it’s platform (and I like the AR15), I absolutely love the M1 Carbine and carry it as an outdoor, woods and vehicle carbine all the time over my AR15, my 870 police magnum shotgun or 1873 .44 WCF carbine. It’s light, easy to handle, not bulky, slings over you easy, shoots great, more than sufficient power for what’s called for and feels like a part of your arm. I believe the commentary in this video hits the nail on the head. Great shooting too
ALWAYS so incredibly informative. I love this format. The incredibly entertaining marksmanship of Henry, followed by a highly engaging and informative history lesson. Love you guys.
I have been a M1 carbine owner for years. My favorite overall weapon by far. This is hands down the best and most comprehensive information on the M1 carbine that I have seen. Great Video!
I’ve shot an M1 carbine that was given to me for an impromptu match. In practical terms anything over 150m is fairly tough. In my case anyway, if someone is familiar with their particular M1 probably 200. Keep in mind Henry is very skilled and shooting fully supported. It’s a handy little carbine.
I hit a torso sized target at 500 yards by holding over 3 target sizes. Like calling in mortar fire. Good job Henry!
I have a Winchester m1 carbine, and words can't describe how awesome this little rifle is. Side note I paid 700 for it around 6 years ago.
Audie Murphy’s weapon of choice. Great review, Henry!
I love all of your videos, and this one is right up there among my favorites. I've long been a fan of the M1 carbine and its "wimpy and underpowered" cartridge. Truly a super innovative and influential design. Well done, guys.
Small correction. The adjustable rear sight and the bayonet lug were on the later year carbines. I own an 1944 carbine made by Quality Tool and it came with those.
I can't say when the adjustable sight and bayo lug were authorized, but they were definitely standard for arsenal refurbs.
I love all the videos you guys make. This one by far was the most optimistic. Never thought anyone would have the idea to take an M1 carbine out to 500yds😂
If I could choose a weapon to use in WW2, it'd be an M1 Carbine.
it was one of the best balanced combat rifles but everyone focuses on the STG44 instead.
@@9HoleReviewsWell the M1 Carbine is nice but it is clearly not as influential as the MP44 was. Select fire, magazine size and way more modern "design" are a few of its advantages. As a PDW the M1 Carbine really shines. But those are just my 2 cents.
Thompson SMG for me
@@9HoleReviews
And rightfully so though
PPSH41 or PPS43 or MP40 for me... stamped endgame smg
My great-uncle recently passed away, leading to his armory being scattered across the will. Luckily, my dad was ever so fortunate to receive his m1 carbine that he carried in his tank during Korea. He always said his favorite part of running a tank through a jungle was at least they had a wall between him and the enemy: great Man but a greater Hunter.
By coincidence Bloke on the Range and Ian tried to debunk the penetration myth recently. Anyway great video and it always just looks such a dinky gun! Keep up the great work.
Not a coincidence at all. These guys coordinate this stuff.
I would like to see that. Was it on Ian's or Bloke's channel? Do you know the title of the video and release date?
Never mind. I just found it. Thanks for mentioning it.
My Father had been issued an M1 Carbine during the Korean War (although he never saw action) and he said that he was told to grab the first M1 Garand that became available if he was ever in a battle. Then again, he had also been told that his 45 handgun would literally knock an enemy off his feet. A lot of untrue things were believed at the time.
From what I have read, a lot of M1 Carbines did not function well in the extreme cold sometimes encountered in Korea. Part of the issue was the inability to completely disassemble the gas system, meaning that the "warm weather oil" that had found its way into it could not be completely removed. Just switching to the low-temp oil was not enough to ensure operation in winter. Apparently, light primer strikes were also an issue. It is my understanding that the non-corrosive primer compound and the particular powder used in M1 Carbine did not perform well at extremely cold conditions....leading to a general distrust of the weapon doing its job.
FWIW, my Father was trained as a ski-trooper and he mentioned that the tents had heaters. Bringing a rifle into a warmed tent from the cold, snowy outdoors would also tend to allow water to condense in the action. This would also be a problem.
this is my favorite rifle. i cant hit anything beyond 250. with iron sites, but it is so nice to shoot. Your analysis of the reason for deployment of the M1 Carbine is spot on Thanks for sharing, and keep up the good work. By the way I think some of the misses were actually HITS.
As a Brit. who's lived mostly after 2000 when access to firearms was significantly restricted, all I can say is that my affection for the M1 Carbine, when I was finally able to use one, was equivalent to my level of disappointment when I finally got to use a Thompson, and anyone who's used a Thompson will understand what I mean. I came ftom a military history rather than shooting background, so I was already familiar with the intended role and usage of the Carbine by the time I actually got hands on, I'd fallen in love before I'd emptied the first mag. It's compact, lightweight, accurate and comfortable/intuitive to use for someone who has any experience of contemporary large calibre service rifles, it's relatively simple and easy to maintain, it did what it was meant to do and did it well. As the pistol alternative it was envisioned to be then I can't personally fault it and know it was extrenely popular with British/Commonwealth forces from W.W.2 and into the post-war years, as there wasn't a comparable weapon in British inventory until a reliable S.M.G. entered service in the form of the Sterling. It's one of the few firearms I've ever used that I'd genuinely love to own, collect and shoot regularly and I'd recommend anyone with an interest in military small arms from the period make space for one in their gun cabinet. Also being a student of the Korean war, I've also read/heard accounts claiming it failed to drop the enemy, particularly in winter when it was claimed it couldn't penetrate n. Korean/Chinese winter clotting. My belief is also that the Occam's razor explanation was 9 times out of 10 that men simply missed, only winged an enemy or failed to hit anything important enough that the individual, probably full of life preserving adrenaline, was still mobile enough to be away on their toes, rather than hang around to find out if they could survive a second round. Because realistically nobody waa stopping in the middle of battle to walk down range and check their grouping.
I wish I bought one of these from the Sears catalog when I was a kid. Also I was impressed with the consistency of hits at 150 -250. Try that with a 1911 or a Thompson - which is what it should be compared with as opposed to a Garand or AK.
Henry is hold. Tossing in a Paul Harrel reference and giving tribute to the M1 Carbine. I was surprised he did not mention it was Audie’s favorite personal weapon because it was just as Henry mentioned: very handy with enough reach for most combat engagements.
I have two Inlands and EVERYONE who tries them immediately falles in love with the Carbine. Load it with 110gr SOFT POINTS and it has surprising effect for its size. Your reference to the .357 ballast is us spit on. Both use about 15 gr of Win296. Great episode!
You said it, you now need to put the meat target and new & improved fleece bullet stop at each distance, and see how effective 30 carbine is
Edit: Maybe a test with thick layers of frozen wool at 300yds, see if the layered ice can slow the projectile enough for the wool to catch it? And a test of freezing the cartridges themselves, see if they loose velocity in the cold?
I don't think the Texas winters are cold enough to keep the wool frozen :( although that would be interesting
Already been done and debunked.
@@armynurseboy I gotta see that, those tests are just fun videos. Channel name?
@@secondamendment1927do a UA-cam search. It's been done multiple times by multiple channels.
@@secondamendment1927Paul Harrell
My buddy has an m1 carbine and I love it. It’s a handy little rifle especially in its day. Great shooter and I’d love to have one some day. Great video as always
Those people are saying it wouldn't penetrate Chinese clothing just didn't want to admit they were completely missing their target
Bingo. Then they blame the gun.
Consensus at the VFW of dad and friends, was the carbine worked well in the pacific theater in the jungle. No one was trading them for an Arisaka.
Excellent review! You showed and talked about what the M1 could do and what it couldn't do, because it was never intended to replace a RIFLE such as the M1 Garand. It was intended (as you pointed out) to be a personal defense weapon in the same niche as a pistol, but more effective. Technically, it might also be called an "assault rifle/Sturmgewehr" that predated the German rifles as it was originally designed with a full auto capability though that wasn't actually fielded until later in the war. But it was an intermediate cartridge in a select-fire, detachable magazine fed weapon. Again, you did an excellent job. If you want to have fun though, how about doing the same course with the upgraded Carbine that was standard in Korea and Vietnam with an adjustable rear sight. My belief is that it will be easier for Henry, though the ammo and its standard of accuracy will probably still result in rounds all around the target with no difference in point of aim.
It was fielded to replace pistols so …
Sorry to disagree, the original requirement was for semi or select fire but that was dropped before the carbine went into production. The M2 and the conversion kit were fielded late in the war.
My most recent birthday present to myself was a simple blowback 9mm repro made by Chiappa. RIDICULOUSLY fun plinker
Would like to see this again but with the adjustable rear sight.
This carbine was designed to replace the 1911 for rear echelon troops as shooting this is easier than a handgun, and training w fairly limited. Now, the cartridge was designed to penetrate a German helmet at 300yds
"This carbine was designed to replace the 1911 for rear echelon troops "
-No, it was not
@@virgilhilts3924oh yes it was according to books about the M1 Carbine in my family’s collection.
@@johnw4999
No it wasn't according to the US ARMY Light Rifle Program proposal and documentation which actually created the Carbine.
Just as with the "My granpappy said 30 Carbine bullets bounced off dem Chinese coats"... Educate yourself with facts and stop repeating BS.
@@virgilhilts3924proposal is just that, a proposal, it’s not an awarded contract, doctrine etc. The Chinese coat myth is just that, a myth.
@@johnw4999
"proposal is just that, a proposal, it’s not an awarded contract, doctrine etc"
-Everything you just stated is utterly nonsensicle and irrelevant to the point
-The LRP is what created the Carbine
-The LRP proposal stated the purpose for the Carbines creation
-Which was NOT to replace the pistol
-It was to create a light, compact rifle for combat optimized for 0-300 yards, magazine fed, select fire
-Pistols are not mentioned a single time in any of the proposals or the LRP itself
-Yet its intended purpose is... combat
"The Chinese coat myth is just that, a myth."
-Just as it is a myth that the Carbine was created to replace pistols for clerks and cooks... dErP
Again, educate yourself by reading the US ARMY LRP documentation and stop repeating BS
Awesome to finally see this on the course. I’ll be a member of the what if brigade and say that if you had used a carbine with the later enhancements such as the elevation adjustable rear sight and a properly tensioned barrel in a type two or later barrel band you’d have cleaned up at least to 400 since your holdovers wouldn’t have been so drastic and knowing that carbines with the type one barrel band can have a wandering zero from the barrel literally just bouncing around with every shot up front. Even a tug on the sling on one of those changes the zero. The later bands actually clamp the barrel instead of just forming a loose ring around it.
I really enjoy this channel, thanks guys and the team for quality content. I love you guys scaring the crap out of the target at range LOL what a great run.
My father carried the M1 carbine in WWII. Served as a medic in the 32nd division in the Papua New Guinea and the Phillipines. The M1 carbine was designed to be accurate up to 100 yards. A good weapon for jungle fighting. It was a replacement for the officer,cook, mechanics,medics carrying a pistol.
Way cool. I'd be interested to see any improvements using the later, elevation-adjustable rear sight.
I guess you proved my dad's point. He was an infantry machinegunner in Africa, Sicily and Italy in WWII. At one point they tried to get him to carry an M1 carbine as backup. He declined because he said if you shoot that at them it would just make them mad at you. At the distances they were shooting in those theaters and considering he was used to using 30-06 in the M1919 I can see his point.
I mean its easily gonna be lethal even at 500 yards but the effective range is not as good yeah
Very entertaining, but this brought a thought to mind. Would it be possible for you to do a side by side comparison of the M1 carbine against the .351 Win. Self Loading carbine.
The WSL's have much more recoil, because they're blowback-operated.
Having fired both I understand that. What I wanted to see is how they stacked up head to head on the range.@@WhenDoesTheVideoActuallyStart
I own a M1 A1 Carbine. Under 250 yards its great. Comes up to the shoulder perefectly, points quickly to aim, easy to to clean, lightweight. On full auto bursts its controllable ++ the fun factor is very high.
The M2 select fire version had a high rate of fire causing most soldiers in the Korean war to miss their targets. Also a lot of engagement were across hilly and mountain terrain. Also a lot of the ammo had not been properly stored and was from WWII and had been weakened. My Uncles and father were vets of both wars and I remember them saying that you would see Garands and Thompson and grease guns laying around but never a carbine. Great video!
Great point on the M2 rate of fire. The M2 worked better in short bursts and with the muzzle brake (attached around the front site). I shot one with a cut-down barrel (advisor?) and conical flash hider and it didn't seem to rise as much as the regular barrel.
M2 Carbine is best used on semi mode most of the time
My father was a combat engineer with the 1st Cav for the first 18 months of the Korean War. Once, I asked his opinion on the various weapons that were available to him. He said that his preferred weapons were the M1 Garand for everything but house to house fighting. For close quarters, urban warfare, his preferred weapon was a Thompson because it was easier to go around corners with it. I asked him specifically what he thought of the M1 Carbine, and he said he preferred the Garand because it would knock a man down at longer ranges and with a single shot, whereas, you could not be sure that the Carbine cartridge would do that with one shot. He also didn't like the M3 grease gun because they felt cheap, unlike the Thompson that he found someplace. By the way, they still use the same nomenclature in the Army. The M16 is the 16th rifle design adopted by the Army and the M4 Carbine is the 4th Carbine adopted.
What about the M2 Carbine weren't those widely available in Korea? I feel like it would be a lot more versatile than the M1A1 and M1928A1 Thompsons although maybe not as powerful at very close ranges.
Love the M1 Carbine. I own 9 M1's, 1 M1A1, and an M2. All of mine are WW2 and are reliable with 15-rd mags and the GI 30-rd mags. They are some of the most fun guns we own. Not deigned for 500-yds. We routinely hit out to 250 - 300 yds. Remember, it shoots a carbine cartridge of 100-grains averaging 1900-fps. It is not a battle rifle, its a carbine. A recently passed Korean war veteran from my church said that many engagements were within 25-yds and that the .30-carbine round would "pop their pumpkins".
I have a Registered M2, It runs great and really amazed what a good weapon it is. Far more useful than a subgun.
I have numerous War Baby books, and I have owned several carbines over the years (IBM, Rockola, Winchester) and it was never met for this. I actually passed a full auto submachine gun course when I was on SWAT with a semi-auto Universal carbine on a bet. This little guy was meant to replace handguns for rear echelon troops and was never meant for precision fire at those ranges. I just hope no one gets the wrong impression from the range results but I’m not gonna lie, I have one hanging on the back of my headboard with a cloth bandolier for night time visitors; exactly the range it was intended.
I know everybody are salivating over M1 Garand, but this is my favourite rifle of WW2 and, in my oppinion, proto assault rifle. I shot one exemple couple of decades ago, they are really rare here, and instantly fell in love. Handy, low recoil, and if it can put down wild pig it can certainly drop a human in heavy cloathing.
Audie Murphay, the most decorated soldier of WW2 he used the M-1 Carbine and he had nothing negative to say about it. Fast forward 1960s, N.Y.P.D. Detective John or Jim Cirrillo and his famous stakeout squad, their go to, the M-1 Carbine, in one shoot out, they grazed a suspects leg, and that 30 Carbine round still broke the bone.
Fast foward, State of Florida, the 30 Carbine was a popular feral hog getting gun. Two firearms I flat refuse to sell. My M1 Carbine and my Browning Highpower. They just go with my K-Bar Knife. A complete kit. LOL.
Re: The purported failure to penetrate on CHICOMs in Korea.
According to a friend of mine, gunwriter Paco Kelly, who was an Army weapons training officer, some of the CHICOMs wore a form of armored vest, rather like the Roman Lorica Segmentata - overlapping bands of mild steel - roughly equivalent to our Vietnam era Flak jackets.
He said it was the .45 ACP that had problems dealing with these vests but he never saw actual evidence that the M-1 or M-2 carbine failed to penetrate them.
Also the Brits & other allies in Korea using 9mmP handguns or SMGs had no reported problems with the armor vests.
He attributed the stories of M-1 carbine failures to stop mostly to failures to HIT - much like Henry said.
He served in post-war Africa & then carried an M-2 carbine in Vietnam in the late 50s (Eisenhower era).
He had little kids grind the tips of this M-1 carbine ammo to flat ogives for his M-2. Said it was his butt on the line & rules be damned. Figured the rounds picked up a bit of velocity from losing a few grains of jacket weight & he was always a fan of the flat nosed projectiles, like Elmer Keith's SWC bullet designs.
Never heard him bad mouth the M-1/2 carbine & he used it in law enforcement after his military time as well.
Great review & good shooting fellas.
The South Vietnamese loved the M1 and M2 Carbines. It was the ideal Carbine for the jungle made 20 years ahead of the Vietnam conflict and was widely available to both RSVN forces by 1965/66 but also to NVA from Chinese capture transfers. The French also used it extensively in the First Indochina war.
I currently have 16 of these beauties and absolutely love them. Even on a lot of those misses he would have smashed some legs taking the combatant out of the fight. In my opinion one of the best service rifles the army ever fielded
You guys made my day, I have 2 M1 Carbine shooters, an M1A1 Inland and a Quality Hardware, rebuilt and used regularly with modern hand loads, 2,000 FPS 110 grain FMJ and soft points. FUN, FUN, FUN! Plenty for personal protection and accuracy to 200 yards.
A very soft recoil, is what I felt when I shot an M-1 Carbine for the first time. At the time I had shot 12 gauge shotgun, .22lr, so I didn't have a vast array of shooting recoil impulses to judge it by, but I loved it regardless. The stock design fit my body well, I was neither too far up or too far off of the rear sight, nor was I forced into a horrid position, to get a sight picture. I only wish I had purchased one shortly thereafter. As a PDC/W it would serve anyone well, especially if your concern is over-penetration in an apartment complex or multi unit building, that a .556 can generate.
5.56 on average penetrates less material like drywall than even a 9mm, and since the .30 carbine had 2x the speed and energy of a 9mm with roughly the same projectile weight its most likely to punch though alot of material before coming to rest.
Love Henry’s no-nonsense analysis. “If Chinese wool clothing could stop bullets we would be making armor out of this material”. Well said. Not every soldier’s feedback is worth listening to.
Let’s not forget this was the most produced rifle of ww2. I have an unmolested non refurb Underwood M1 carbine just like this one. Which means I need to get a rearsenaled one to shoot the hell out of so I don’t break something on the original one.
My uncle was an E6 infantryman in Korea. He had an M 2 Carbine, as did I when I was in VN in 1966. His complaint was twofold. One, he said that during Chinese human wave attacks, a single M2 carbine round would not always knock down the enemy soldier. He and his troops learned to always use the M2 on fully automatic to not only get a hit, but to knock down 44:06 the Chinese soldier. He also felt the Chinese burp gun hit harder than the M2 did. I mentioned to him that the higher velocity of the M2 round gave it more energy than the heavier but slower Chinese bullet, but he stuck to his guns on his opinion. His fighting was often close in from defensive positions; he felt that at close range they usually had good accuracy. (In VN, where I was an HQ grunt with MACV and IIFFV, the M2 was the perfect weapon for an HQ troop, a useful alternative to a pistol. I never had to fire a shot in anger.)
Around my neck of the woods, the M1 Carbine was highly popular with the troops issued with them during the Malayan Emergency, until the SLR was issued. Plantation owners, in particular, loved them, which is not surprising as they were issued with Stens before M1s became available.
My dad used one for a short time in Korea. He ended up going with the Reising (SP) then the Thompson. He was a forward observer in the (newly formed) Air Force. He felt that the "knockdown" was better with the .45 and liked the volume of fire. He said that the Reising wasn't reliable.
A kid friend of mine had and still does have one of these, original M1 .30 cal. Carbine and I must say, back in the late 80's-1990, I was VERY impressed by the general performance of these gems. His dad picked it up off a WW2 vet that was a family member years before he gave it to my buddy. I think he may have had a few 20 rd. mags for it in addition to a pile of 'regular' 15 rd. mags. That thing could empty a mag in half-a-shake of a lambs tail too! Solid unit but even then it was pricey to plink with as teenagers roaming South Florida's swamps on dirtbikes, ATC's and a new Quadrunner or 2 LOL. LOVED your opinions, info and nostalgia on it. FWIW, my buddy STILL has it in his case to this day! Thanks for a fun and QUITE informative piece on a very impressive, important piece of 30 caliber history! Too bad no one made a .44mag version of this gem of history. I'm subbed now too!
My uncle Tommy went through WW II from North Africa to North Italy with the 5th Army. He used a Springfield 03 while he was in Africa. In Sicily he was given a M1 Garand. Being a smallish man (5'-7") he found it very heavy. After being wounded along with his fellow soldiers in a mine destroyed "duce-and-a-half" truck he was issued a M1 Carbine. He LOVED It! Light, fire power, and very accurate. He carried that through the rest of the war. His only comment about his experience was that the carbine was "Very, Very accurate!" and left it at that.
A good load for the M1 carbine, .30 caliber is an 85-grain jacketed bullet over 17 grains (compressed) Winchester 296 powder. this gives an average of 2405 foot per second.
but I am shooting this load through a Marlin model 62 Deluxe lever action carbine. so, your milage may vary. ^~^
If it exceeds max SAAMI pressure I definitely would not use it an an M1 or M2 Carbine. Unless it's something insanely hot it would be good in most Marlins I think though. If its within SAAMI specs probably safe but with a lighter bullet with a higher velocity than its designed for I feel like accuracy might suffer(sort of like 62 grain 5.56 in a 1/12 barrel) but maybe it would be good.
@@redtra236 True, I'll clarify by saying this load is used in a Marlin Model 62 Lever action in .30 US Carbine.
The real issue was that this gun was never meant to be used to shoot at targets more than 300 yards away nor was it all that flat shooting at 300 hundred yards. It was a replacement for the 1911 which it certainly did very well.
One oft forgotten WW2 use of the M1 Carbine was by british special forces, the guys dropped behind enemy lines to fight with resistance forces in Europe. They had their choice of weapons and many of them chose M1s for the rate if fire, portability, and the amount of ammunition they could carry.
Even today how much of a disadvantage would some territorial defense guard at a checkpoint with an M2 be at compared to having a basic AK type in 7.62x39?
I served in combat in Vietnam 1967 through 1969. In 1968, I inherited a M2A2 version of the M2 Carbine. It had adjustable rear sights, adjustable for Windage on the rear sight. It had a wire shoulder stock, that could be folded into the stock. Even with this setup, the rifle was accurate out to 500 yards, I could get hits at 600 yards (but not dependable). As for FA use, it was easy to manage. It was also deadly on the VC and NVA. I liked it because it was lite, and I could still carry 300 rounds. I also liked the sound that it made. Different from an AK and 5.56 CAR.
You know what would be absolute fire? An M1 carbine in 5.7 x 28. I actually like the OG round, it's just getting really hard to find and when I do find it it's usually at 5.7 prices.
See: 5.7 Johnson Spitfire.
You must remember that the muzzle velocity was much reduced by the thirty below zero weather. My father swears that past 100 yards in the winter you had to shoot for the legs or head.
I have a 1944 Quality Hardware M1 Carbine that was refit and has the adjustable rear sight. It’s somewhat comical how much the rear sight adjusts going from say 100 to 300 yd, but it’s spot on and I can ring steel all day with it at 300. I have never tried going farther than 300 yd though. Of my M1 Garand, my 03A3 Springfield, and my M1 Carbine, the Carbine is my favorite.
The 7,62x39mm was developed in 1943, hence the name M43 which most likely proceeds the first contacts the Sovjets had with the M1 carbine (dont know when the first were delivered to the Sovjet Union, but they only received 7 in total). Kalashnikov had to use the M43 round.
I really appreciate the candor at the end talking about how the M1 Carbine was able to make 400 yard hits. I feel like a large amount of the internet gun community, and many Fudds before them, like to make disingenuous arguments comparing two weapon systems without taking a minute to contextualize the specific roles they played and what they were designed for. Saying an M1 Carbine is bad because it didn't pass the course while the M4 did doesn't diminish how successful the M1 Carbine was at serving its intended role. It won't operate like an M4 because it was not designed to be an M4.
Well guys, I’ll tell you this, my old man packed and M2 carbine in the Nam. That being said he depended on that rifle, and it never failed him. They are a good rifle if you’re caught in an ambush, and in most cases in Vietnam, most ambushes occurred within 100 yards which would make this rifle a s a superb weapon to have as long as you got a substantial amount of banana clips ready to go. I would take this rifle not only over a pistol but over a 9 mm machine gun or 9 mm or 45 carbine it has proven itself in three major wars and multiple conflicts. It has been dependable to put the enemy on its ass it’s light. The ammunition overall is lighter than a 556 meaning clip and ammo together, and you don’t have to worry about windage the slower, the bullet, the harder, the punch.