Comparing Doctor Who: "The Ice Warriors" - 1967 vs 2013
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- Опубліковано 15 тра 2019
- A side-by-side analysis of the original and animation of The Ice Warriors!
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The Ice Warriors really should have had a decent animation budget, it's still good in comparison to some.
Fury from the deep
@@davidbanan. that’s better than people make it out to be.
@@DanTheMan2150AD I agree with you
If I remember correctly, The late Bernard Bresslaw ‘Of Carry On Star’ had to be guided while in costume, I think it’s easy to ‘See’ why.
His costume was made of fibre glass. He was sent to a boat builder for the fitting, which surprised him!
"Raises hands in frustration"
Singapoooooooooooooooooore!
😂😂
Happy Thursday, Josh! The highlight of my week: another excellent Who video. Love The Ice Warriors, they are sadly really underrated as a monster race on Who. They should really have appeared with the latter classic Doctors. Sylvester McCoy apparently nearly met them - there were plans for a return in the unmade season 27. They are name-checked in Castrovalva and The Waters of Mars. I did enjoy their reappearance in Cold War and Empress of Mars - it was especially good to hear the voice of Ysanne Churchman, who incidentally turned 94 this week. Many happy returns, Ysanne!
Thanks for making me smile, Rob!
I've always thought Brian Hayles is overlooked in the pantheon of doctor who script writers...which is a shame as he is good.. great review as ever..🐴
My 2nd favourite animation after The Moonbase. The more basic and stylised animation seems to blend better with the 60s audio. Best of all, it's pretty much completely acurate to the telesnaps which is mostly what I'm looking for in a reconstruction.
Josh, you are a fucking legend!
This is a great comparison, this was a good story with great animation but as far as Ice Warriors go, I prefer The Seeds of Death!
I used to prefer the animations to be accurate, and i loved the power of the Daleks when it first came out (still do, but more because of the story than the animation even though it is very good), but i have changed my mind after Shada and the Macra terror. There is just something so beautiful about seeing visuals that conform to the vision that the stories were trying to tell, but in a more impressive way than was possible at the time. I hope that they continue this trend forwards, and i really hope they will do Evil of the Daleks and the Savages in this way. I listened to them and other stories before i watched the Loose Cannon reconstructions and felt that there is much room for artistic licence in the potential animations.
I just get such a warm feeling in my heart thinking about the Dalek city from Evil with the same style and creativeness as the Macra Terror
Another awesome video, Josh! An often overlooked fact about this story is they were originally called the Nice Warriors. They had little smiles below their visors. It was adorable...
I thinking a mix of the two. If it's like a half missing story then for consistency sake, accuracy would be needed otherwise it would be a bit jarring. But for stories like Macra Terror where it was missing completely or if there aren't much reference material. Then I think no one would hold a grudge if the animators went a bit artistic with the design and the animation outcome of the whole thing. Although since it's animation, making up for any special effects that were considered hooky by today's standards couldn't hurt. Like the macra prop, trying to animate the original prop would have been bloody difficult to do. So again, I'm on balance i guess :)
An ice warrior costume was reused in Genesis of the Daleks. It is one of Davros’ failed experiments. The back of the ice warrior was used as the body of the creature.
Excellent video. I love the animation in this one and the story also.I think they did a brilliant job. Regarding the Macra Terror, I made a comment on your comparison video of that one about the extra time and money to animate the rough and tumble scene and received this reply from a member of the animation team. It appears time and money had nothing to do with it. The powers that be at the BBC had already decided to cut the scene. This is his response:
'I was lucky enough to be an animator on this project. Money wasn't the reason the scene was cut. It had already been cut before my studio was even approached to help out for whatever reason the higher ups saw fit. To animate the rough and tumble scene with the software we used would have taken us about a day with the speed we were animating at. This rumour is pretty damaging to all the people who worked in production on this.'
So this begs the question why did the BBC cut the scene? I think it is a very important scene establishing the idea that the colony seems to be such a wonderful paradise while something sinister is going on behind the scenes.
This video is proof that The Ice Warriors was the best animation :)
I liked the Ice Warriors very much. The realization of the Ice Warriors is splendid, with the possible exception of their big butts!The acting is excellent, though Peter Barkworth's performance as Clent reminds me of William Shatner as Captain Kirk. Not sure if that's a good thing but he certainly commands your attention. The base staff's uniforms are something special, aren't they? I also liked Varga's hissing chuckle and Troughton's clowning around when he is trying to open the stink bomb vial. All in all, a really solid episode though I do prefer the Seeds of Death, which also has a great guest cast and absolutely no fashion sense. Terry Scully's Fewsham is an incredible study in panic, grief and cowardice against overwhelming odds and his ultimate self-sacrifice is a nice way to complete his part of the story.Thanks again for another great video.
Hey Josh !! Great review 😊I do like it when the animations are close to the original telesnaps 😊 More reviews please Josh ! Love watching them !! I’m a big Hartnell and Troughton fan !! 😊(UK)
I just watched The Ice Warriors a few days ago. I have never watched the animation, I used the Loose Cannon reconstruction for Episodes 2 and 3. Great story, although I agree with you that The Seeds of Death is better.
Josh I am really enjoying your work and the truly professional way you are covering the lost episodes. I was not a fan of animation at first but now after watching all of them I am sold on this as the way to restore the lost episodes. The Macra Terror was truly fantastic and I loved that they went a bit further and added to the effects and visuals. I am sure the original makers would appreciate this as they would have loved to have done more than they were able to I am sure. I recently watched "The Wheel In Space" reconstruction and animation and truly hope that this is the next story to be restored.
Thanks for your work and keep the videos coming mate.
Accuracy and artistic license are both great, they should do both on different releases with later ones. I as a whovian would love that! On a side night, I'd love to see fury from the deep animated! And the savages to!
Excellent analysis. Thanks for comparing
Considering what we had before the animation, (nothing) I’m glad we have it. One of my favorite stories. Thanks for great videos.
Thanks for another great video.
Stuff like the Macra, the Vines/Foam from Fury from the Deep, & hopefully some day, the space battle from The Space Pirates, that could do with a bit of sprucing up.
Hey Josh. Why not talk about missing episodes that were found but were incomplete because of film Damage or Overseas censorship? OwO
I dont think that has ever really happened
@@davidbanan. No, it definitely has. The Time Meddler 4 still has 12 seconds completely missing that were lost to censorship cuts!
Great video Josh! To answer your question. .what ever works best is what I prefer...if there is a good reason to take artistic license then I say go for it. I agree this isn't the strongest Ice Warriors story. ..I prefer The Seeds of Death. ..but as an introduction to the character it's pretty important.
Again fantastic work and I hope you continue with your videos...even if it's about different topics.
Dr who has had quite a ride the last half a century,
1:42 jamie's not wearing his hoodie in the telesnap like in the animation.
I prefer the most accurate reconstructions possible, using period appropriate techniques.
All I can think about with this statement is Doctor Who in the style on 1960s Scooby Doo. lol
@@AH-yn6ip I'm talking about setups like camera angles and lighting, not xerographically created frames as H-B did with Scooby-Doo. Too bad I'm fresh out of Scooby snacks. ;)
You can chalk me up as a fan of the Qurios animation. Despite its obvious limitations, I think it suits the serial well. It's just a shame they're no longer around, as I feel that they would have done a grand job with animating Web Of Fear Episode 3. Incidentally, Adam Bullock's fan animation of this lost episode is very similar in style to Qurios and is worth a look.
fantastic video, i love this story and i think the animation is great. i prefer the animation to be true to the original which is why i like this animation so much. i am currently watching the invasion and i like that animation too however my favourite animation is planet 55.
I still like their debut story.
I actually live in Germany, but I'm not sure if the missing episodes of the Ice Warriors are still there and I don't know which firm has them. However, we Germans usually take good care of our things.
I love this Episode
I really like this animation. The story is rather drawn out and unengaging (shame as the production is really excellent) but with the animation I actually felt like I'd seen the whole story - something that none of the other animations have ever achieved.
I didn't know they'd had less budget which just makes me more impressed by it. It does the job it's supposed to do - tell the story.
I don't mind some artistic licence in terms of rearranging positions of characters, set design or props, but The Reign of Terror animation was too jarring, using modern editing techniques, instead of sticking with the more sedate 60s style. Overall, even though the animation is getting better, I'm still old school and prefer telesnaps with original audio, while we wait for more actual footage to surface, which I'm confident will happen! :)
The animation for this one isn't the best but I think it does the job.
As for accuracy v. artistic, I just want visuals. Doesn't really matter if they're not going off the original 100%. Power of the Daleks was about 50% accurate and Macra Terror was even less accurate I think. But whatever the case may be, I'll still be watching it. Because Doctor Who is Doctor Who.
I like the animation for most of the reconstructed episodes. It usually looks somewhat non-dimensional (you don't have the illusion of distance in them). But the characters have very smooth movements and they have an old fashioned 1960's look. It would be impossible put the episodes in 3-D with the budget the animators had. But they were quite successful in making the video portion look much like the period of time in which the episode was made. It was a simpler time with much less technology.
Hey, Mate!
I was just thinking, if you wanted to, you could compare the Loose Cannon Reconstructions of The Enemy Of The World, and The Web Of Fear, to the Surviving Episodes?
I know it's kind of late, but... You Know... So was this, technically!
Only if you want, No pressure. :)
I thought the animation style was certainly different but fitted the story.
Interesting side note, I was actually in the audience at the 11th Hour 2 Con in Birmingham when the animation team screened Ep 2 for the 1st time & I was quick enough to be the first to get up & ask a question afterwards.
eer...I guess I could've told you this earlier as something else to talk about here...sorry
I'm hoping someone does an animation for Evil Of The Daleks and The Wheel In Space.
Would have loved underwater menace anninmation
As characters the Ice Warriors are great!
I actually really like this art style. I kinda see why people don’t like it, but it sits well with me.
Are you going to make comparisons of the Faceless Ones and Fury from the Deep animations?
No plans to make them, sorry!
I'm fine with a little artistic license as long as it keeps within the spirit of the original work, or improves upon it in some way. What little I've seen for The Macra Terror's reconstruction is a good example.
Whether or not I'd prefer an accurate animation or one with artistic licence depends on the story.
Another fantastic video Josh. I’ve recently come across a rumour that suggests that the next Missing Episodes to be animated are the ones from The Faceless Ones. How would you feel if this is our next animated classic?
I welcome any animation!
I don't mind artistic liberties as it allows more freedom than confined to the telly snaps which are just one frame, what went on inbetween the telly snaps until the next one. I just want them to animate more lol.....one day they will be re-released with Hollywood CGI.......that would be amazing, one can dream lol
while I do like them to be accurate, I love the artistic license of The Macra Terror
It's a shame that The Ice Warriors animation has been not had the reception that The Invasion had. The animation was fluid and was so fantastic seeing how close they came with the telesnaps. As for your question, I think both is fine. The Macra Terror is a prime example of how the two would work together (Artistic License being the new beautiful Macra that Rob Richie did). It still won't bring back the ROUGH AND TUMBLE SCENE!
(I couldn't care less about that scene being out of the episode)
@@TheGamerZapocalypse You... you have watched the Missing Episode series that Josh has done, right?
I really love Ice Warriors to be honest. Although I recognise its flaws
I like artistic license 👌
Qurious was going to the underwater menace!
Going to do Reign of Terror?
RoT doesn't have surviving telesnaps!
Josh Snares really? Didn’t know that! I’m sure you mentioned that on your documentary, but it’s been a minute since I watched the first part. So they just based the animation on the soundtrack and the other episodes then?
@@tayloredwards7441 yep!
Accuracy
Accuracy definitely.
Honestly, I think The Ice Warriors is a true classic, and is better than The Seeds of Death and Curse of Peladon.
20% of what I wonder🤷♂️
I'm a stickler for accuracy in all things. The more accuracy, the better. I confess The Ice Warrior is not one of my favourite stories. I find it drags and it can get a bit tedious at times. The animation was fine, though, in and of itself. Well, I think it was. I don't have a lot of knowledge of technical knowledge when it comes to how animation actually works, so I can't comment on that side of it, but the look of it isn't a problem for me. Another great vid, Josh. Thank you!
Hey Josh, I really enjoyed this animation! Unlike Reign, which is the poorest in my opinion, it didn't chop and change angles/camera positions in a headache-inducing fashion. Plus I could always tell which character I was supposed to be looking at (unlike in Reign!). This simpler style of animation was probably much closer to The Ice Warriors original idea. And I was sorry that the studio didn't get to do more. I bet their version of Reign would have been fascinating!
Planing on buying The Ice Warriors DVD, but im not really a fan of this animation. They look mostly like cardboard animatronics you see on ad signs & in some amusement parks & the moving Michael Jordan cardboard on Home Alone when they move. Not much of a fan of flash animation, like they used on Missing Doctor Who, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Rick & Morty & Archer, no offence. Its sad that they didnt use Traditional Animation while re-animating the missing episodes. I do hope The Ice Warriors part 2 & 3 & MORE Doctor Who episodes will be found 1 day. Plus i think The Ice Warriors hands looks like Lego-hands.
honestly, this animation team should have been the ones to do the animation for The Abominable Snowmen story
Yes I also like this animation. However there is one thing that I am not really fond of. The characters looks too 'comicky'. Some characters don't have lips, it's just a line. Furthermore, if there are telesnaps surviving, I prefer accurate animation.
I Hope They Give This a Better Animation even tho I Don't Mind This
I am still upset that this was the story the german broadcaster ZDF got back in the 60s. They declined the offer to dub them. If they had accepted it, we might have every single missing story... Such a waste... I wish they would have presented the Daleks episodes or the great intelligence ones.
I think the lip movements and facial expressions on the animation isnt bad, sadly when characters walk they look like they're bobbing across the screen
The down side of Flash animation, no matter how you do it. It always looks like a puppet at the best of times. Although for the Ice Warrior's case, the animation is a lot better than other versions of flash I have seen in the past.
@@jeremythomaswebb1485 yeah for me this isnt the worst animation that would be the reign of terror
What not a fan of the story...."Hisses like a cat" lol
If there are surviving episodes, then I think it's important to try and stick to at least a similar look. If they are re-animating the whole story though, then I see no harm in showing some artistic license and maybe making look the way it could have if they'd had the budget at the time.
The Ice Warriors animation works pretty well. Certainly better than The Reign Of Terror animation which I thought was pretty terrible.
I actually prefer this animation style a lot more than the more recent ones. Yes, the movements are clunky... but I can tolerate that a lot considering the Doctor looked like Troughton where as the newest ones have him looking like a child ghoul.
Prefer this design the newer design wasn't the best
Accuracy