Great video! Unfortunately this is still something that will fly over a lot of people's heads regardless of what facts or numbers you put in front of them. They will still have a negative view on anything that deviates from the traditional way of doing things especially when a laboratory is involved.
I’ve heard that super rarely meristem clones can mutate, I only know this bc my old man orchid friend was telling me how a friend of his worked in a lab and accidentally made a few dwarf varieties of orchids (as in only tiny few throughout her decades long career)! It’s like people forget mutations are a normal part of genetics instead of unilaterally a defect or sign something was done sub-optimally
Happy New Year! There's "tissue culture drama", who knew? LOL! People clearly have too much free time on their hands. Thanks for all the vidyas. Cheers!
knowing my luck,,,,just as I finally learn the basics of TC perfectly for the first time...I'd accidentally sneeze on my sample...and abt 8 month later the Swamp Thing comes raging out of my grow room...thus dooming most of Humanity
So stoked I found your channel I really like your hood I have one that was given to me by Roger miller(Shelby gardens ) . It’s an old desk made into a hepa positive pressure flow hood workstation. I want the flow one you use. I do orchids and seed grow as many as I can. I’ve learned a lot from your content and appreciate it
Since self-pollination is still a part of „sexual replication“ and the chromosmal distribution gets shaken up by it to ensure gene diversity, it’s actually quite logical that the first outcome would differ from the original plant. However if the offsprings would be „rebred“ with its siblings that happen to have the desired features and selectively bred for it, you could „single“ out the genes for the desired mutation and basically create a „plant race“ that can interbreed and show your desired phenotype 😊 Basically thats how any man-made race (for pets and livestock, but also crops ) was created, but TC is definitely wayyy faster and simply creates clones 😊
Most TC is without any mutation and are *exact* copies of the mother plants: clones. The trouble is our industry typically uses the term "clones" to categorize asexual propagations: cuttings . And the point of the video was about the ethics of disclosing if a plant is from TC because of the *_very low, but non-zero,_* possibility of somalclonal variation (like the 2 headed philodendron I show in my vid, and the variegation I'm getting on Joepii that sat in NAA for 3+ Months... Again to reiterate, I understand that 99.99+% of the plants I multiply in TC will be genetic clones of the mother plants, BUT I do think people should disclose it when they sell expensive plants like Delta Force, that are from TC, because of the slight chance of weakening genetics.
Unless someone can prove the provenance of their plant no one can say their plant isn't from TC even if they are selling cuttings. Don't get me wrong, I don't think sellers should lie about it if asked but requiring sellers to label their plants as TC unreasonably brands them with this drama without actually providing any useful information. You're using loaded terms like weakening. The genetics aren't weakening. Mutated maybe. It's also not ongoing as the weaken"ing" implies. Am I nitpicking? Maybe but you only have to scroll down and see comments referencing your video and asking if this person also noticed TC plants not growing as well. Plant changes such as the 2 headed one you mention can't be ascribed to TC with any certainty without a bunch of caveats.
@prettyingreen While i agree, that yes, mutation can happen, what you are describing with a two headed philodendron is not a result of genetic variation. The apical dominance in plant is controlled by the hormonal regulation within the plant. If a plant has been sitting on a medium with a high concentration of growth regulators it can bind them to sugars and store them for later use. This can result in a differing hormone concentration after acclimatisation. If the hormone balance is tipped enough things like two heads can appear. Its not the genetics, its hormone levels. Similar things can be achieved with the application of pgrs to traditionally propagated plants.
This is such a bizarre discussion to me as an Aquarist. The Aquarium Hobby LOVES TC plants as the process to sterilize them also means that they will have no snails or other water pests. TC in the Aquarium hobby is actually more expensive then cuttings because of this as the demand for TC is so much greater, and insanely optimized aquariums (with CO2 injection and the like) produce a huge amount of small cuttings. I am definitely not in the position to try this yet, but you have a new Subscriber out of me as I might try to culture Echinodorus tenellus, as its a very popular TC plant in Australia thats always sold out everywhere.
I'm looking into getting into tissue culturing aquatic plants and I'd actually be interested in experimenting with causing mutations to see if I can make something neat and new what would be the best way to encourage mutation
Two things... 1... Yes, mutations do in fact come from tissue culture... but they are very rare in TCs where the goal is simply to clone a plant. 2... Mutations can also be intentionally introduced into TC through Genetic & Epigenetic alterations. This is commonly done with TCs of Genetically Modified plants, where the seeds will inherit the new mutations.
As someone who has grown a lot of pure species and hybrid plants, mutations happen. Tc can produce way more plants so there is a higher chance of running into mutations. People who make hybrids or grow stuff from seed actually toss loads of seedlings bc they have lost the genetic lottery. Lots of begonia hybrids have become lost because chopping and propping can only make so many plants. I think TC can make unique hybrids more accessible/prevent them from becoming lost.
THANK YOU! I had the same reaction when I saw the pretty in green vid. Unless the lab doing the tissue culture is purposely trying to mutate the plant, it should be an identical copy of the mother plant and likely has similar mutation rates to spontaneous mutations in cutting propagated plants. Appreciate you posting this!
Some TC plants from a variegated explant still don’t often make variegated new plants even though genetically they’re the same (eg philodendron billietiae). What gives with that, is that just epigenetic? Is there a way to know what tc plants will be good at passing on variegation? Cheaper probably = more likely to make var plants in tc but is there any other way to know?
Greatly explained! That is true that genetic mutation is not that common. However there were a concerning discussion that pretty in green did and that is that tissue cultured plants are not growing as good as seed grown ones for example tissue cultured thai constellation that is rotting more than usual ! Has this been your experience too?
That is more of a question of business ethics rather than the technology itself. You can get a weak form of a plant if you started off with a weaker stock when you start the micropropagation. Just as you would with a cutting. A responsible way of mitigating that is to grow out your tissue culture plants and see how hardy your new props are before selling them. Like actual quality control. But even mega companies like Google don't even extensively test everything before putting out new software, and instead rely on hot fixes...
I think you are a bit confused here, there is no seed grown Thai Con. All Thai Cons come from the same mother plant that’s been TC’ed and chopped to oblivion. When people say TC’ed plants are less vigorous than seed grown plants, they are mostly likely talking rubbish. Almost all our house plant are coming from TC one way or another, how does someone on the internet know for sure that some random plant they got is from seed?
Yet when you're growing or breeding some of the more harder to grow or "exotic" plants, mutations can create some very desirable characteristics, how do they think some of the amazing varieties come to be?
Been watching a few of your videos on culturing plants now and I’m intrigued. Would love to see some attempts with store bought fruit. Saw some videos where people were trying to grow banana trees from seedless bananas like a cutting, and they looked fake. Would be cool to see a video where you attempted the same thing but with a culture. Maybe do one with the stem, one with the peel and one with the fruit itself, to show us the results. Hell, I’d watch that with any produce, oranges, mangos, apples, kiwi, lemons, figs, pomegranates, dragon fruit, peppers, pineapples, key limes, avocados, pumpkins, sweet potatoes… Not to mention, some of those cultured plants grow up so weird, like tiny Bonzai, which leaves me wondering about if there could be a market for microBonzai.
on a side note, i used the top of an eaten pineapple and got it to root and grow! i look at it and laugh every time i see it. those things can put an eye out if you arent careful though.
You also missed a chance to have that clip of Arnold Schwarzenegger from the movie " The 6th Day" where he says "you are the clone, no you are the clone..."
Hey I was just watching the newest video from ZENSCAPE , where they are touring an aquatic plant farm in Singapore @ 14:25 I thought about you as they are finally showing the TC facilities. Nowadays I have been able to get a bunch of healthy baby plants that I decided to see if my LFS Rivershore Aquariums 😊 Hopefully my future is ful of more plants because they were very quick to make an offer . Well that's about it , I just wanted to share & wondered if I can get paid with my 2 Nature Aquariums you maybe have something to consider yourself ? If down the road your interested ? My 100% favorite for a planted display is what saltwater Hobbyists propagate coral frags in called a frag tank and I love them because they are only 10" in height which is perfect for my all time favorite creature Betta Splendens , and since the standard sizes are pretty deep compared to the waters they have evolved in 😮 So just like you , now breathing air is how they do manage the inhumane treatment in the Takeout containers . I can't even look or I'll buy , but i still have...... 50 gallon Zoo Med LOWBOY
Customer complaining that TC plants are not the exact same as original. So should seller start charging more for gene test certificate. but after that they would ask for the certificate of the original sample, and after that, and after that... people are expecting too much.
I’ve been watching (and rewatching 😅) a few of your recent videos and can’t seem to find a good example of when you differentiate media/protocols for multiplication vs rooting. Do you skip mixing a rooting media that differs in recipe from your multiplication protocols? You have examples of taking explants and multiplying them, and then videos of you acclimating rooted plants, but I don’t see any examples of you performing the rooting processes. Are the multiplication and rooting processes just too similar so you’ve skipped over it? Thanks!
I do a rooting step with some plants (e.g. for philodendrons I use 0.5mg/L BAP and 1.0mg/L IBA). I'm working on a longer philodendron vid that will show the whole process. Other than philos, I mainly work with begonias, which multiply root readily in TC without a designated rooting formula
this is very interesting stuff, I just have difficulty keeping aphids off my thyme plants, but if someone could create a varietal which resisted them they would have a hit on their hands. And obviously the test of a true Delta is the shape of the leaves, so wrangling about genetic identity and somatic variation is a bit of a red herring here, but great work either way
And to think that all marijuana grow houses are doing this and thinking they're keeping a cleaner plant. Plus I think it helps them with production.. I never understood this.
RE: infected violets-- The entire premise of TC is to remove any disease from the resulting tc plant. Why remove your plants instead of using tc to "treat" them???? 🤷
One thing I don't understand for the life of me is...and please help me. Why is there such an anti-tc movement going on when it comes to rare plants? Is it because these plants are expensive? TC is not a new technology when it comes to plant propagation. A lot of regular 'basic' houseplants we have are most likely TC. TC is the most efficient and stable way for mass-propagation. Seed propagation will (almost) never give the exact same plant, even if it is self pollinated. Stem cuttings are theoretically the most safe, but it is the slowest and thus the least lucrative way for sellers to propagate. One last thing. We need to work with data. Sure, I believe a very very small percentage of clones will mutate, but what is this percentage? I would't be suprised if it is less than 0,1%.
TC has the ability to flood the market with a particular plant and drive the price to uneconomical levels. Small plant sellers have a lot of incentive to spread fear of TC to keep the value of their plant. Even the biggest nurseries in Southeast Asia have limit how much they TC to keep the price high so the whole market is profitable.
I believe that the problem is that TC production factories keep TC plants for 1000s of propagation cycles and don't re-establish fresh cuttings periodically. The more cycles a plant is propagated in culture the greater chance of having "mutant" plants. These factories keep cost down by NOT starting new cultures from healthy plants and people will generally tend to buy from cheaper sources. Therefore people will have a greater chance of getting mutant plants from TC. Once you've bought, or heard of someone who bought a TC mutant, that fear will carry over to the rare TC plants. In most cases those rare plants did not come from one of those factories and their chance of being a mutant are pretty low. But if you were going to spend 100s of dollars on a TC plant, is that risk worth it if you've heard of ANY TC mutants? For some people, that answer is no.
great video !!! yes check on the tissue culture drama comments I made a few comments to enlighten the topic but of course guy did not reply me hehehehehe
except that anthurium delta force in TC is still via small explants and the genetics of the resulting plants arent pure as a real clone because if you look at the same size of a cutting. its wavy edged, and a flat sinus, RPF deltas are not.
Its funny to see people argue that TC creates things that aren't as pure as the parent plant when the example they use is a hybrid and could have easily been an ugly green lump and thrown in the mulch bin..
Not a bad summary of this topic, but you left off several notable things to discuss. 1. Not only can you get somoclonal variation, but you can get epigenetic changes. You can look up a more detailed description, but basically any living thing can have DNA get methyl groups stuck to it in response to environmental growth conditions. These methyl groups alter gene expression and can impact plant morphology and make a plant look like it "has a DNA mutation". These epigenetic changes, by the way, can be inherited by subsequent generations of seeds. They essentially are mutations, but not DNA mutated. I just call any non-normal plant a mutant. 2. People who fear TC plants for these mutations are justified in feeling that way. Many TC plants can become stunted and never recover. This is not always noticeable from the small plants that are sold by producers because they often don't grow plants to full size. While you may be correct that "mutant" or "deformed" plants are tossed before being sold, the mutations/adaptations that I'm talking about are the ones not seen until the plant is larger and the producer may not realize the plants they are selling are dwarfed or otherwise mutated. 3. Another point about people being weary of TC plants in something else you would not have experienced much yet. For TC plant "factories" if they have grown plants in TC for a long time (for example more than 10 years) the chances of mutant forms greatly increases. Your plants are done on a small scale and constantly being re-established from cuttings from mature plants and have not been in TC for 100s or 1000s of propagation cycles. It is a fair concern for people buying TC plants. If you want to distinguish your TC plants from those that might have mutant forms, then keep track and state on the product site how many propagation cycles the plant has undergone in TC. 4. Lastly, as you probably know, 2,4-D, TDZ, and other synthetic hormones can increase multiplication rates and therefore make production cheaper. And as you said, these hormones are more likely to cause mutants. It is impossible for a person buying TC plants to know if any of these hormones were used, but production facilities are greatly incentivized to use them to increase production.
General rule of thumb is to buy plants that are at least a couple inches in size. Even though I've never read or heard of anyone having any issues with TC, I'm sure like you said, someone working in a TC factory has had experience with outliers. It has to be rare though, something like 1 in 1000 or less.
@@floob247 Actually it is much higher than that. I've worked in a TC lab and "TC adapted plants" are quite common. It is well known in TC labs that you don't keep multiplying a plant in culture more than a year. The longer in culture, the more likely the aberration.
Y'all, I'm starting a new business... It's going to be called TC & Me. You send me your tissue sample, and I do the DNA match to determine whether your plants are exact clones of the target plant. DON'T STEAL MY IDEA.
Great information Laur, if that is your real name. There is a confusion between disease and nutrient deficiency where disease is overused and health is misused. Most if not all dis-ease is due to lack of essential nutrients (75 minerals 16 vitamins fatty acids etc...while epigenetics has overtaken the theory of genetic wish washy science. Love your videos keep moving ahead & above all the rest!
Disclosure is simply respect. Whether it is religion, culture, or simple bias, many reasons exist for disclosure. The use of hormones, whether its ignorance or belief, is a known bias for almost half the population. You're doing great, keep it up!
It’s pretty clear to me when people asking if a plant is TC’ed, they are not asking if the plant has genetic mutation or not, they are asking how much supplies there is and if the shop selling the plant is interested in protecting the current value of the plant. Delta Force is desirable for it rarity, and if it is TC’ed the price will tank. That’s the really the crux of the debate. A shop propagating Delta Force with cutting vs TC has huge implications for the availability and future value of the plant, those factors greatly influence if the plant should be purchased. The seller wants to hide it, the buyer wants to know. I find Pretty In Green really like to stir drama and be a troll sometime. A lot of his claims are exaggerated speculation.
Delta Force is desirable because it's pretty, its expensive because it's rare and supply and demand. If you're buying it for rarity, then you're setting yourself up for being upset when prices go down.
@@OtsoNick yeah, I agree that the word choice I made is inaccurate. But there is a difference between people buying it for the rarity and people paying the price for the rarity.
To think humans can do similar, technically males more so being we have the X and Y chromosomes. Females can as well, though the risk for mutation is far more a concern. Amazing though, crazy to think we could be like... can I get a biopsy or maybe even swab or smear and don't worry, I'll take full custody of the males. ;-) You're awesome! Thanks for this and in all. 🙂
@@iwatchyoutube523 I actually did, I never heard the word before or unipotent before looking up. Is there a distinction between the two words when talking about plants?( Pluri and toti not uni) Plants don't have placenta, and are there any intermediate cell types that are in the development from seed that aren't seen in a clone?
Could you please not use those clickbaity arrows in your thumbnails? We can see that you're holding a green object in your fingers and that it is a plant leaf. It just seems that every channel these days adds these unneeded arrows as clickbait tools to their thumbnails. They add nothing to your content. We can see what your text is applying to. As a rule, only add an arrow to your thumbnail if it's required for the user to understand the text on the image. We're mostly smart enough to know what the text applies to without adding an unnecessary arrow. The arrows appear more as clickbait tools than a device that helps you deliver your message. The last thing you want your channel to appear as is being clickbaity.
Zero difference between a large tc and a small cutting! Both are clones! That being said, it is easier to mutate a TC because most mutations result in death, for a cutting you need most cells to survive but for TC it is possible to grow from as little as a single cell! Would you be interested in adding uranium or something to your TC to intentionally encourage mutations?
You would use chemical mutagens, not radiation normally. Colchisine can do this (by causing polyploidy), but also the 2,4-D she mentioned or TDZ. It also doesn't have to cause genetic mutation. The hard part is getting a mutation that is favorable. 99.9999% of mutations are harmful or lethal.
@@ronrothrock7116 but how big does a plant have to be to have more than 10000 cells? I'd think the odds a single cell with a single mutation might live are good.
@@petevenuti7355 It is a bit more involved that the way you are looking at this. From the DNA said it works like this: if the particular plant you are looking at has, say 1 billion base pairs of DNA, but only about 1% is coded for genes the odds that the mutation will be within an encoded gene are small. Next, the average gene has 236 base pairs. If one of them is mutated that gene may still function, but be less effective (or more on rare cases) or it could be non functional. The impacts of an impaired gene or non-functional gene will reduce survivability of that cell either a little or to the point that it will die. Now that is only talks about for encoded protein genes that are about 1% of the DNA. In that other 99% there are lots of "junk DNA", stuff that we just don't simply know about and what mutations there would do. Some are likely structural and others can be regulatory. Others still may be turned on or off depending on the environmental factors. But to your specific point about 1 in 10000... it depends on which cell within the plant has the mutation. There are only a few specific cells that are "lineage" cells (called meristematic cells). Those cells exist in the actively growing meristem tip. If any other cell is mutated, that cell, while it may still multiply, it will only end up being a portion of the plant (resulting in a chimera) and can never be produced into another whole living plant. For example, if that cell happens to exist on the newly formed leaf, as the leaf continues to grow larger, that leaf will have the mutation, but the rest of the plant won't. There are only about 10-20 meristemitic cells within a growing meristem. And even if one of those meristematic cells is mutated, you can still get chimeras and not a whole mutant plant (some of the variegated plants are this). Another thing to consider is this: If the meristematic cell is mutated and it grows slower due to it's mutation, as the cells around it multiply faster than it, it most often gets out-competed with and the un-mutated cells overwhelm the mutant and the mutant line disappears because it can't keep up with the others around it. There are lots of factors involved and I could give an entire college course on mutations, how and where they arise and the statistics of survivability, but suffice it to say the odds are actually way less than what I said in the 1 in 10,000. I just threw out a number that was very low, but not very precise. And just as an aside, mutations when using chemicals or radiation don't just happen as a 1 time deal per cell. Due to the low chance of producing a mutation that is in the right place in the DNA and then it's odds of survival, you need to cause many many mutations. Most chemically or radiated cells end up with 1000s of mutations. 1 needs to cause a mutation that can survive and produce a whole plant that survives, but is different in some way, but all those other mutations have to not have occurred to end up a lethal mutation as well.
I smell some tea 🫖 brewing, stay tune for @prettyingreen rebuttal video titled: PLANT DRAMA with @plantsinjars about Anthurium 'Delta Force' SOMACLONAL VARIATION. 😂
I’ve worked in orchids nurseries since the eighties. Mutations are very rare. Meristem clones are worth more than seedlings.
Never imagined learning about plant tissue culture could be so fun and interesting!
Great video! Unfortunately this is still something that will fly over a lot of people's heads regardless of what facts or numbers you put in front of them. They will still have a negative view on anything that deviates from the traditional way of doing things especially when a laboratory is involved.
Hoomans stoopid.
I love your sense of humor 😂 thanks for making me laugh while learning about plants.
I love how both passionate and articulate you are. Keep up the good work!
I can't get enough of your channel. Your intros often make me laugh so hard.
SCHOOLED! Thanks for the vid, I'm still on the bus though, where to now?
I’ve heard that super rarely meristem clones can mutate, I only know this bc my old man orchid friend was telling me how a friend of his worked in a lab and accidentally made a few dwarf varieties of orchids (as in only tiny few throughout her decades long career)! It’s like people forget mutations are a normal part of genetics instead of unilaterally a defect or sign something was done sub-optimally
the severed finger bit got my upvote
Great vid. Good pace as well.
Happy New Year! There's "tissue culture drama", who knew? LOL! People clearly have too much free time on their hands. Thanks for all the vidyas. Cheers!
knowing my luck,,,,just as I finally learn the basics of TC perfectly for the first time...I'd accidentally sneeze on my sample...and abt 8 month later the Swamp Thing comes raging out of my grow room...thus dooming most of Humanity
So stoked I found your channel I really like your hood I have one that was given to me by Roger miller(Shelby gardens ) . It’s an old desk made into a hepa positive pressure flow hood workstation. I want the flow one you use. I do orchids and seed grow as many as I can. I’ve learned a lot from your content and appreciate it
Since self-pollination is still a part of „sexual replication“ and the chromosmal distribution gets shaken up by it to ensure gene diversity, it’s actually quite logical that the first outcome would differ from the original plant. However if the offsprings would be „rebred“ with its siblings that happen to have the desired features and selectively bred for it, you could „single“ out the genes for the desired mutation and basically create a „plant race“ that can interbreed and show your desired phenotype 😊 Basically thats how any man-made race (for pets and livestock, but also crops ) was created, but TC is definitely wayyy faster and simply creates clones 😊
Most TC is without any mutation and are *exact* copies of the mother plants: clones. The trouble is our industry typically uses the term "clones" to categorize asexual propagations: cuttings . And the point of the video was about the ethics of disclosing if a plant is from TC because of the *_very low, but non-zero,_* possibility of somalclonal variation (like the 2 headed philodendron I show in my vid, and the variegation I'm getting on Joepii that sat in NAA for 3+ Months...
Again to reiterate, I understand that 99.99+% of the plants I multiply in TC will be genetic clones of the mother plants, BUT I do think people should disclose it when they sell expensive plants like Delta Force, that are from TC, because of the slight chance of weakening genetics.
Unless someone can prove the provenance of their plant no one can say their plant isn't from TC even if they are selling cuttings. Don't get me wrong, I don't think sellers should lie about it if asked but requiring sellers to label their plants as TC unreasonably brands them with this drama without actually providing any useful information.
You're using loaded terms like weakening. The genetics aren't weakening. Mutated maybe. It's also not ongoing as the weaken"ing" implies. Am I nitpicking? Maybe but you only have to scroll down and see comments referencing your video and asking if this person also noticed TC plants not growing as well.
Plant changes such as the 2 headed one you mention can't be ascribed to TC with any certainty without a bunch of caveats.
@prettyingreen While i agree, that yes, mutation can happen, what you are describing with a two headed philodendron is not a result of genetic variation. The apical dominance in plant is controlled by the hormonal regulation within the plant. If a plant has been sitting on a medium with a high concentration of growth regulators it can bind them to sugars and store them for later use. This can result in a differing hormone concentration after acclimatisation. If the hormone balance is tipped enough things like two heads can appear. Its not the genetics, its hormone levels. Similar things can be achieved with the application of pgrs to traditionally propagated plants.
Theres a non-zero chance of getting variation with cuttings too. TC is just a tiny cutting.
@@khaitomretro TC is not simply just a tiny cutting... Laur has lots of videos explaining the process of TC
It looks like pretty in green just likes drama if you ask me. Thank you for all the great information
Agreed. No plant science there
I liked the more in depth video. It was such a treat to watch.
This is such a bizarre discussion to me as an Aquarist. The Aquarium Hobby LOVES TC plants as the process to sterilize them also means that they will have no snails or other water pests. TC in the Aquarium hobby is actually more expensive then cuttings because of this as the demand for TC is so much greater, and insanely optimized aquariums (with CO2 injection and the like) produce a huge amount of small cuttings.
I am definitely not in the position to try this yet, but you have a new Subscriber out of me as I might try to culture Echinodorus tenellus, as its a very popular TC plant in Australia thats always sold out everywhere.
Thanks for what you do, great content. Very pleasant company.
This is fascinating!
I know you’re in r/plantcirclejerk. I recognize that snark. We all are, now.
I'm looking into getting into tissue culturing aquatic plants and I'd actually be interested in experimenting with causing mutations to see if I can make something neat and new what would be the best way to encourage mutation
Two things...
1... Yes, mutations do in fact come from tissue culture... but they are very rare in TCs where the goal is simply to clone a plant.
2... Mutations can also be intentionally introduced into TC through Genetic & Epigenetic alterations. This is commonly done with TCs of Genetically Modified plants, where the seeds will inherit the new mutations.
I think it would be cool if you tried to induce mutations in tc for a video
From what i remember cell callus is more susceptible to mutation as the cells are not as well shielded? Eg UV
I have my own protocol to induce soma clonal variation on cacti, what produces crested pattern and this is very wanted to create new cultivars
Real talk Ms.Frizzle my girl.
Seat belt has been buckled!
As someone who has grown a lot of pure species and hybrid plants, mutations happen. Tc can produce way more plants so there is a higher chance of running into mutations. People who make hybrids or grow stuff from seed actually toss loads of seedlings bc they have lost the genetic lottery. Lots of begonia hybrids have become lost because chopping and propping can only make so many plants. I think TC can make unique hybrids more accessible/prevent them from becoming lost.
THANK YOU! I had the same reaction when I saw the pretty in green vid. Unless the lab doing the tissue culture is purposely trying to mutate the plant, it should be an identical copy of the mother plant and likely has similar mutation rates to spontaneous mutations in cutting propagated plants. Appreciate you posting this!
I love your videos! I wish you would do a livestream.
Some TC plants from a variegated explant still don’t often make variegated new plants even though genetically they’re the same (eg philodendron billietiae).
What gives with that, is that just epigenetic? Is there a way to know what tc plants will be good at passing on variegation? Cheaper probably = more likely to make var plants in tc but is there any other way to know?
Greatly explained! That is true that genetic mutation is not that common. However there were a concerning discussion that pretty in green did and that is that tissue cultured plants are not growing as good as seed grown ones for example tissue cultured thai constellation that is rotting more than usual ! Has this been your experience too?
That is more of a question of business ethics rather than the technology itself. You can get a weak form of a plant if you started off with a weaker stock when you start the micropropagation. Just as you would with a cutting. A responsible way of mitigating that is to grow out your tissue culture plants and see how hardy your new props are before selling them. Like actual quality control. But even mega companies like Google don't even extensively test everything before putting out new software, and instead rely on hot fixes...
I think you are a bit confused here, there is no seed grown Thai Con. All Thai Cons come from the same mother plant that’s been TC’ed and chopped to oblivion.
When people say TC’ed plants are less vigorous than seed grown plants, they are mostly likely talking rubbish. Almost all our house plant are coming from TC one way or another, how does someone on the internet know for sure that some random plant they got is from seed?
Maby he just gets his thai constellation from a shitty lab
Mine grow like beasts
You're wonderful! I love you and your videos)) Are you planning to build the MC environment yourself?
Yet when you're growing or breeding some of the more harder to grow or "exotic" plants, mutations can create some very desirable characteristics, how do they think some of the amazing varieties come to be?
hola! sigo tu canal hace mucho, me gustaria preguntar si puedes compartir papers relacionados al tema!
Love your content. Keep it up!
Been watching a few of your videos on culturing plants now and I’m intrigued. Would love to see some attempts with store bought fruit. Saw some videos where people were trying to grow banana trees from seedless bananas like a cutting, and they looked fake. Would be cool to see a video where you attempted the same thing but with a culture. Maybe do one with the stem, one with the peel and one with the fruit itself, to show us the results. Hell, I’d watch that with any produce, oranges, mangos, apples, kiwi, lemons, figs, pomegranates, dragon fruit, peppers, pineapples, key limes, avocados, pumpkins, sweet potatoes…
Not to mention, some of those cultured plants grow up so weird, like tiny Bonzai, which leaves me wondering about if there could be a market for microBonzai.
on a side note, i used the top of an eaten pineapple and got it to root and grow! i look at it and laugh every time i see it. those things can put an eye out if you arent careful though.
I've been waiting for you to respond to the pretty in green video on this 😂
you mentioned a discord for TC, what is that server?
You also missed a chance to have that clip of Arnold Schwarzenegger from the movie " The 6th Day" where he says "you are the clone, no you are the clone..."
Hey I was just watching the newest video from ZENSCAPE , where they are touring an aquatic plant farm in Singapore
@ 14:25 I thought about you as they are finally showing the TC facilities. Nowadays I have been able to get a bunch of healthy baby plants that I decided to see if my LFS Rivershore Aquariums 😊 Hopefully my future is ful of more plants because they were very quick to make an offer . Well that's about it , I just wanted to share & wondered if I can get paid with my 2 Nature Aquariums you maybe have something to consider yourself ? If down the road your interested ? My 100% favorite for a planted display is what saltwater Hobbyists propagate coral frags in called a frag tank and I love them because they are only 10" in height which is perfect for my all time favorite creature Betta Splendens , and since the standard sizes are pretty deep compared to the waters they have evolved in 😮
So just like you , now breathing air is how they do manage the inhumane treatment in the Takeout containers . I can't even look or I'll buy , but i still have......
50 gallon Zoo Med LOWBOY
howdy plants in jar lady! have you ever tissue cultured marcgravia species?
Great Content. Always a pleasure to watch your videos, and now, being schooled on the Magic School Bus, WhoooHooo !!
lo que se debería hacer es tener un F1 de delta, luego hacer un retro cruce con delta y así por 4 generacionces
If we have enough explant (node segment), can we directly use Rooting stage? Or Callus formation important for rooting?
The real problem too many people out there with Facebook degrees They’re just trolls looking for attention
Could you tissue culture a cactus? Is it possible?
Conifers can also mutate from an already mutated one.
It's the synthetic diamond thing all over again.
Why Delta Force? Was the guy a Chuck Norris fan?
Can you share a link to your TC Discord?
OMG. I can find A. Delta Force quite easy and cheap here.
Where did you get the flow hood at?
Customer complaining that TC plants are not the exact same as original. So should seller start charging more for gene test certificate. but after that they would ask for the certificate of the original sample, and after that, and after that... people are expecting too much.
Can you share the discord, I didn't see it in your bio.
I’ve been watching (and rewatching 😅) a few of your recent videos and can’t seem to find a good example of when you differentiate media/protocols for multiplication vs rooting. Do you skip mixing a rooting media that differs in recipe from your multiplication protocols? You have examples of taking explants and multiplying them, and then videos of you acclimating rooted plants, but I don’t see any examples of you performing the rooting processes. Are the multiplication and rooting processes just too similar so you’ve skipped over it? Thanks!
I do a rooting step with some plants (e.g. for philodendrons I use 0.5mg/L BAP and 1.0mg/L IBA). I'm working on a longer philodendron vid that will show the whole process. Other than philos, I mainly work with begonias, which multiply root readily in TC without a designated rooting formula
So prety! love your work!
Thanks for the video :) Would be curious if you have started a TC discord channel?
Working on it! I have the server set up but haven't made it public yet. Probably later this month
I have a Birkin and it’s crazy. I really need to post a video soon to show its insanity.
can u sell mutated plants i love rips and bumps in my plant leafs :3
Can you an actual process for a venus flytrap (;eg DCXL, B-52 etc cultivar). Would great if you had a ready made chemical kit to buy)
I bought a Gloriosum that the selller admitted it was a crazy tc mutation…it’s ugly but I’m having a lot of fun watching it be weird….😅😅
this is very interesting stuff, I just have difficulty keeping aphids off my thyme plants, but if someone could create a varietal which resisted them they would have a hit on their hands. And obviously the test of a true Delta is the shape of the leaves, so wrangling about genetic identity and somatic variation is a bit of a red herring here, but great work either way
And to think that all marijuana grow houses are doing this and thinking they're keeping a cleaner plant.
Plus I think it helps them with production.. I never understood this.
lol you’re so fuckin cooked, living for it keep it up
Wait... Did I just get wrapped up in plant drama?
RE: infected violets-- The entire premise of TC is to remove any disease from the resulting tc plant. Why remove your plants instead of using tc to "treat" them???? 🤷
TC is being used to eliminate HLV in cannabis rn. 👍🌱
One thing I don't understand for the life of me is...and please help me. Why is there such an anti-tc movement going on when it comes to rare plants? Is it because these plants are expensive? TC is not a new technology when it comes to plant propagation. A lot of regular 'basic' houseplants we have are most likely TC. TC is the most efficient and stable way for mass-propagation. Seed propagation will (almost) never give the exact same plant, even if it is self pollinated. Stem cuttings are theoretically the most safe, but it is the slowest and thus the least lucrative way for sellers to propagate. One last thing. We need to work with data. Sure, I believe a very very small percentage of clones will mutate, but what is this percentage? I would't be suprised if it is less than 0,1%.
TC has the ability to flood the market with a particular plant and drive the price to uneconomical levels. Small plant sellers have a lot of incentive to spread fear of TC to keep the value of their plant. Even the biggest nurseries in Southeast Asia have limit how much they TC to keep the price high so the whole market is profitable.
I believe that the problem is that TC production factories keep TC plants for 1000s of propagation cycles and don't re-establish fresh cuttings periodically. The more cycles a plant is propagated in culture the greater chance of having "mutant" plants. These factories keep cost down by NOT starting new cultures from healthy plants and people will generally tend to buy from cheaper sources. Therefore people will have a greater chance of getting mutant plants from TC. Once you've bought, or heard of someone who bought a TC mutant, that fear will carry over to the rare TC plants. In most cases those rare plants did not come from one of those factories and their chance of being a mutant are pretty low. But if you were going to spend 100s of dollars on a TC plant, is that risk worth it if you've heard of ANY TC mutants? For some people, that answer is no.
what if i make a cuttings from a tc plant?
Then you have a cutting from a plant.
great video !!! yes check on the tissue culture drama comments I made a few comments to enlighten the topic but of course guy did not reply me hehehehehe
except that anthurium delta force in TC is still via small explants and the genetics of the resulting plants arent pure as a real clone because if you look at the same size of a cutting. its wavy edged, and a flat sinus, RPF deltas are not.
Juvenile plants are always going to look different to their mature counterparts.
Its funny to see people argue that TC creates things that aren't as pure as the parent plant when the example they use is a hybrid and could have easily been an ugly green lump and thrown in the mulch bin..
@@plantsinjars as stated theyre the same maturity but okay. theyre not the same.
Not a bad summary of this topic, but you left off several notable things to discuss.
1. Not only can you get somoclonal variation, but you can get epigenetic changes. You can look up a more detailed description, but basically any living thing can have DNA get methyl groups stuck to it in response to environmental growth conditions. These methyl groups alter gene expression and can impact plant morphology and make a plant look like it "has a DNA mutation". These epigenetic changes, by the way, can be inherited by subsequent generations of seeds. They essentially are mutations, but not DNA mutated. I just call any non-normal plant a mutant.
2. People who fear TC plants for these mutations are justified in feeling that way. Many TC plants can become stunted and never recover. This is not always noticeable from the small plants that are sold by producers because they often don't grow plants to full size. While you may be correct that "mutant" or "deformed" plants are tossed before being sold, the mutations/adaptations that I'm talking about are the ones not seen until the plant is larger and the producer may not realize the plants they are selling are dwarfed or otherwise mutated.
3. Another point about people being weary of TC plants in something else you would not have experienced much yet. For TC plant "factories" if they have grown plants in TC for a long time (for example more than 10 years) the chances of mutant forms greatly increases. Your plants are done on a small scale and constantly being re-established from cuttings from mature plants and have not been in TC for 100s or 1000s of propagation cycles. It is a fair concern for people buying TC plants. If you want to distinguish your TC plants from those that might have mutant forms, then keep track and state on the product site how many propagation cycles the plant has undergone in TC.
4. Lastly, as you probably know, 2,4-D, TDZ, and other synthetic hormones can increase multiplication rates and therefore make production cheaper. And as you said, these hormones are more likely to cause mutants. It is impossible for a person buying TC plants to know if any of these hormones were used, but production facilities are greatly incentivized to use them to increase production.
General rule of thumb is to buy plants that are at least a couple inches in size.
Even though I've never read or heard of anyone having any issues with TC, I'm sure like you said, someone working in a TC factory has had experience with outliers. It has to be rare though, something like 1 in 1000 or less.
@@floob247 Actually it is much higher than that. I've worked in a TC lab and "TC adapted plants" are quite common. It is well known in TC labs that you don't keep multiplying a plant in culture more than a year. The longer in culture, the more likely the aberration.
I just love your content- one day I’ll get a gass stove and tissue culture 😊
Is it possible to manipulate the plant? What's happen if you cross 2 species? Iam asking for a friend 😂❤
Y'all, I'm starting a new business... It's going to be called TC & Me. You send me your tissue sample, and I do the DNA match to determine whether your plants are exact clones of the target plant.
DON'T STEAL MY IDEA.
lmao
I think I accidentally don't donate you two dollars but cool I like your videos and you're cute. Thanks.
Soooooo, basically I'll never get one of these even into the unforeseeable future. This is rich people plants. 🤷♂️
But it doesn’t have to be if more people did TC more plants, especially like this would be common which would drop the price overall, and in time
Make your own cuttings, though, and you might get a handsome ROI.
Great information Laur, if that is your real name. There is a confusion between disease and nutrient deficiency where disease is overused and health is misused. Most if not all dis-ease is due to lack of essential nutrients (75 minerals 16 vitamins fatty acids etc...while epigenetics has overtaken the theory of genetic wish washy science. Love your videos keep moving ahead & above all the rest!
Disclosure is simply respect. Whether it is religion, culture, or simple bias, many reasons exist for disclosure. The use of hormones, whether its ignorance or belief, is a known bias for almost half the population. You're doing great, keep it up!
It pays to be first when discovering something new. I want to name something delta force
It’s pretty clear to me when people asking if a plant is TC’ed, they are not asking if the plant has genetic mutation or not, they are asking how much supplies there is and if the shop selling the plant is interested in protecting the current value of the plant. Delta Force is desirable for it rarity, and if it is TC’ed the price will tank. That’s the really the crux of the debate. A shop propagating Delta Force with cutting vs TC has huge implications for the availability and future value of the plant, those factors greatly influence if the plant should be purchased. The seller wants to hide it, the buyer wants to know.
I find Pretty In Green really like to stir drama and be a troll sometime. A lot of his claims are exaggerated speculation.
Delta Force is desirable because it's pretty, its expensive because it's rare and supply and demand. If you're buying it for rarity, then you're setting yourself up for being upset when prices go down.
@@OtsoNick yeah, I agree that the word choice I made is inaccurate.
But there is a difference between people buying it for the rarity and people paying the price for the rarity.
❤
To think humans can do similar, technically males more so being we have the X and Y chromosomes. Females can as well, though the risk for mutation is far more a concern. Amazing though, crazy to think we could be like... can I get a biopsy or maybe even swab or smear and don't worry, I'll take full custody of the males. ;-) You're awesome! Thanks for this and in all. 🙂
Toe-tip-a-tant? Do you mean plory-po-tent?
She said and meant totipotent. Look it up.
@@iwatchyoutube523 I actually did, I never heard the word before or unipotent before looking up. Is there a distinction between the two words when talking about plants?( Pluri and toti not uni)
Plants don't have placenta, and are there any intermediate cell types that are in the development from seed that aren't seen in a clone?
You really should post more often like double what you do at a minimum
Where is my SMS 😂?
Could you please not use those clickbaity arrows in your thumbnails? We can see that you're holding a green object in your fingers and that it is a plant leaf. It just seems that every channel these days adds these unneeded arrows as clickbait tools to their thumbnails. They add nothing to your content. We can see what your text is applying to. As a rule, only add an arrow to your thumbnail if it's required for the user to understand the text on the image. We're mostly smart enough to know what the text applies to without adding an unnecessary arrow. The arrows appear more as clickbait tools than a device that helps you deliver your message. The last thing you want your channel to appear as is being clickbaity.
Zero difference between a large tc and a small cutting! Both are clones!
That being said, it is easier to mutate a TC because most mutations result in death, for a cutting you need most cells to survive but for TC it is possible to grow from as little as a single cell!
Would you be interested in adding uranium or something to your TC to intentionally encourage mutations?
You would use chemical mutagens, not radiation normally. Colchisine can do this (by causing polyploidy), but also the 2,4-D she mentioned or TDZ. It also doesn't have to cause genetic mutation. The hard part is getting a mutation that is favorable. 99.9999% of mutations are harmful or lethal.
@@ronrothrock7116 but how big does a plant have to be to have more than 10000 cells? I'd think the odds a single cell with a single mutation might live are good.
@@petevenuti7355 It is a bit more involved that the way you are looking at this. From the DNA said it works like this: if the particular plant you are looking at has, say 1 billion base pairs of DNA, but only about 1% is coded for genes the odds that the mutation will be within an encoded gene are small. Next, the average gene has 236 base pairs. If one of them is mutated that gene may still function, but be less effective (or more on rare cases) or it could be non functional. The impacts of an impaired gene or non-functional gene will reduce survivability of that cell either a little or to the point that it will die.
Now that is only talks about for encoded protein genes that are about 1% of the DNA. In that other 99% there are lots of "junk DNA", stuff that we just don't simply know about and what mutations there would do. Some are likely structural and others can be regulatory. Others still may be turned on or off depending on the environmental factors.
But to your specific point about 1 in 10000... it depends on which cell within the plant has the mutation. There are only a few specific cells that are "lineage" cells (called meristematic cells). Those cells exist in the actively growing meristem tip. If any other cell is mutated, that cell, while it may still multiply, it will only end up being a portion of the plant (resulting in a chimera) and can never be produced into another whole living plant. For example, if that cell happens to exist on the newly formed leaf, as the leaf continues to grow larger, that leaf will have the mutation, but the rest of the plant won't. There are only about 10-20 meristemitic cells within a growing meristem. And even if one of those meristematic cells is mutated, you can still get chimeras and not a whole mutant plant (some of the variegated plants are this).
Another thing to consider is this: If the meristematic cell is mutated and it grows slower due to it's mutation, as the cells around it multiply faster than it, it most often gets out-competed with and the un-mutated cells overwhelm the mutant and the mutant line disappears because it can't keep up with the others around it.
There are lots of factors involved and I could give an entire college course on mutations, how and where they arise and the statistics of survivability, but suffice it to say the odds are actually way less than what I said in the 1 in 10,000. I just threw out a number that was very low, but not very precise.
And just as an aside, mutations when using chemicals or radiation don't just happen as a 1 time deal per cell. Due to the low chance of producing a mutation that is in the right place in the DNA and then it's odds of survival, you need to cause many many mutations. Most chemically or radiated cells end up with 1000s of mutations. 1 needs to cause a mutation that can survive and produce a whole plant that survives, but is different in some way, but all those other mutations have to not have occurred to end up a lethal mutation as well.
Youre cute
Do this with beneficial plants not useless house plants
I smell some tea 🫖 brewing, stay tune for @prettyingreen rebuttal video titled: PLANT DRAMA with @plantsinjars about Anthurium 'Delta Force' SOMACLONAL VARIATION. 😂
Far too long of a title
@@prettyingreen 😂😂😂 #DEAD 😂😂😂