Just wanted to say this video, and the Reddit thread I found it from, finally made something click with my years-long back pain. After lifting with very knowledgeable trainers and practicing with great yoga teachers, I'd never understood that the psoas and glutes are antagonists and that pulling the spine concave can be an action of the psoas and fights the glutes extending the hips. I ended up so paranoid about my lower back that I'd clench my core even HARDER thinking I was protecting myself and then wonder why I could barely deadlift a plate - and why I'd then hurt my back when I did. Thanks for this content. You just really changed my life.
He adresses this concept of misusing the psoas to keep a straight spine. Now that i am aware of it i was able to switch it off and find that i get much more posterior chain mobility. Thx man!
I gave up on DL...I use to pull 405 with what I thought was good form, but I always felt it in my back. I was too scared to go any heavier. This video fixed that issue. I am going light, but I am DLing again!
Great video by the mobility guru. Thank you Kelly! A question for y'all. What do you do between reps? I.e. After pulling through the first rep, do you put the bar down, stand up and reload from the top? Or do you focus on spine and reverse load with the weight in your hands after the lockout at the top?
In order to keep the back from rounding during a maximal pull off the platform, you have to force the back to stay arched or straight and the second you feel the back start to break down halt the action and drop the barbell.
great video.. have a 2 part question: 1. at 4:05 of the video, even with the perfect form and proprioception, how will that not create a ton of shearing force on the lumbar spine 2. if you have a client that can do all the things you are describing, which require great body control, coordination and flexibility (which 95% of the population doesn't have and cant do), perhaps then they can perform a safe deadlift, but the vast majority of the people out there already have preexisting injury, chronic muscle spasm and tightness, little of required motor control ect.....
@purchell53 I'm not sure but I think you'll not be able to use the posas in that way, if you use the psoas you can not use only the upper part of the psoas, you'll always use the full Iliopsoas muscle the through its full orgin (t12-l5) an not only t12 (m. psoas maj and m. iliacus) the psoas also do lateral flexion (moving your trunk to the side) but no flexion in the lumbar spine afaik.
Idk if my prob is load pattern in the setup or overall or both! My deadlift is a broken movement containing two parts, a hip drive that results in a heavy Good Morning. Im 6'5 with long legs&In order to get the bar passed my knees(which are ALWAYS well over the bar when Im set to pull), my movement begins with my legs getting almost to lockout before I've actually pulled the bar to knee height. Ive PR'd at 500# with this miserable form but know I have to clean it up&get efficient to progress.
@purchell53 pretty easy, just search for the anatomy of the M. psoas major an you'll find the structures it comes from (Origin) (T-spine 12 +lumbar spine 1-5) an the structure it pulls on (Insertion) (lesser trochanter of the femur) chance puntucm fixum and puntum mobile et voila the psoas does extension in the lubar spine instead of flexion in the hips :) i hope this helps, greetings from a german PT ;)
Ok. Im kinda new to dead lifting (correctly anyways). I have been looking to optimize my form but it seems everyone has a different opinion on what that is. It seems Kelly is teaching a different set up than Rip from starting strength.When Kelly shows the way NOT to set up it looks like the way starting strength says to set up. Who is correct? Or did I miss something?
Mr. Starrett I am new at dead-lifting and I am just needing some clarification on (min 2:55) when you said butt pushed back, do you mean like pushing your butt back like donald duck? I ask this because I am rounding on the bottom of my lower back when I dead-lift about 90% and I trying to figure out how not to do that. Thank you for the video!
No matter what I tried I couldn't stop my back rounding with conventional, but as soon as I switched to sumo its dead flat and will easily surpass my conventional soon!
Anthony Gorsuch He means push the butt back, like if your arms were full of groceries, and you had to shut your car door with your butt. Hope that visual helps.
interesting post. there's a video by mark rippetoe advising the technique you criticize here. i instinctively follow the setup you advise, but was trying rippetoe's method. it felt unnatural and i didn't like it. i'll switch back now.
You never deadlift by keeping your back hyperextended. That is why you squeeze the butt and release the psoas on the way up. If you use it anyways, which a lot of people don't. The issue can be the motor pattern seen if people forget to unload the psoas (noobs probably do this). It's just unnatural to stand up with your hips rotated like that. What you do is raise the chest up. That will put your back in a more stable position. Ideally the back should be as neutral as possible. So work on stretching the hamstrings out in order to do so. But you only need to keep your chest up. You dont need to pull the psoas tight. Typically this is never cued.
@Krpi No I hit all of my reps, but I do what is recommended in the video not to (getting tight AFTER grabbing the bar in the bottom position). If you go to my channel it should be my most recent video called "HFS and Deficit Deadlift 11-26-11".
@etekeos Stand erect behind bar, bend over until you touch the bar, bend knees till shins hit bar: that's what is advocated in this video and it's the same thing rippetoe teaches. If you did otherwise then that's not following rippetoe.
@EliteKrieGer -.- "chance" I obviously mean "change" and i forgot to say: through the "extension-action" of the psoas you're unable to archive full extension in the hip and compensate through lumbar hyperextension (like Kstarr said)
I'm pretty sure that Rippetoe is teaching more of a "bottom up" stacking method, so that "chest up" is supposed to get the lower back out of flexion and into a more neutral position. If you're already in neutral spinal alignment before you even bend over, it's not necessary. Looking up is also not needed, because they you're taking yourself out of neutral cervical spine alignment. Bend down and grab the bar like you're about to dead lift. Then look up. Then without changing your neck/head position, stand straight back up. Where are you looking? Is it straight ahead? If you're looking up at an angle then you are not in neutral cervical alignment.
He using big words. Sounds very smart. I also very smart. I understand. Video good! Honestly as someone who "over analyses" ie does their research and has an interest in anatomy, this was a bit much. Dude was throwing around these fucking words with a mouth full of spit, talking all fast, and breathing heavy the whole time. Sounded like some juiced up football couch. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about but he can't communicate it well. Wasn't a super advanced concept either, just was explained that way. "BOOM!"
Just wanted to say this video, and the Reddit thread I found it from, finally made something click with my years-long back pain. After lifting with very knowledgeable trainers and practicing with great yoga teachers, I'd never understood that the psoas and glutes are antagonists and that pulling the spine concave can be an action of the psoas and fights the glutes extending the hips. I ended up so paranoid about my lower back that I'd clench my core even HARDER thinking I was protecting myself and then wonder why I could barely deadlift a plate - and why I'd then hurt my back when I did.
Thanks for this content. You just really changed my life.
I really wish I would have watched this before deadlifting yesterday.
He adresses this concept of misusing the psoas to keep a straight spine. Now that i am aware of it i was able to switch it off and find that i get much more posterior chain mobility.
Thx man!
One of the most brilliant MWODs ever. You were really on your game Kelly!
Very nice video. Just showed exactly what was going through my mind. Thanks Kelly, lets keep this industry ever evolving.
I've been guilty of getting tight at the bottom. Now I understand why that's bad. Great vid Kelly--I'm glad you guys are back!!
this is great. my mind is a buzz reading watching stuff like this. sharing w/ a few close lifting friends. some of the visual cues/markers were great.
I gave up on DL...I use to pull 405 with what I thought was good form, but I always felt it in my back. I was too scared to go any heavier. This video fixed that issue. I am going light, but I am DLing again!
Thanks Kelly, I managed to add 10kg to my 1RM. And applying torque to the bar - did it with double overhand grip!
This is going to save my low back. Thanks for the fantastic tips!
What are some techniques/exercises to help with the range of motion tip @4:00 mark?
Great video by the mobility guru. Thank you Kelly!
A question for y'all. What do you do between reps? I.e. After pulling through the first rep, do you put the bar down, stand up and reload from the top? Or do you focus on spine and reverse load with the weight in your hands after the lockout at the top?
REALLY good post!
In order to keep the back from rounding during a maximal pull off the platform, you have to force the back to stay arched or straight and the second you feel the back start to break down halt the action and drop the barbell.
great video.. have a 2 part question: 1. at 4:05 of the video, even with the perfect form and proprioception, how will that not create a ton of shearing force on the lumbar spine 2. if you have a client that can do all the things you are describing, which require great body control, coordination and flexibility (which 95% of the population doesn't have and cant do), perhaps then they can perform a safe deadlift, but the vast majority of the people out there already have preexisting injury, chronic muscle spasm and tightness, little of required motor control ect.....
@purchell53 I'm not sure but I think you'll not be able to use the posas in that way, if you use the psoas you can not use only the upper part of the psoas, you'll always use the full Iliopsoas muscle the through its full orgin (t12-l5) an not only t12 (m. psoas maj and m. iliacus) the psoas also do lateral flexion (moving your trunk to the side) but no flexion in the lumbar spine afaik.
Idk if my prob is load pattern in the setup or overall or both! My deadlift is a broken movement containing two parts, a hip drive that results in a heavy Good Morning. Im 6'5 with long legs&In order to get the bar passed my knees(which are ALWAYS well over the bar when Im set to pull), my movement begins with my legs getting almost to lockout before I've actually pulled the bar to knee height. Ive PR'd at 500# with this miserable form but know I have to clean it up&get efficient to progress.
@purchell53
pretty easy, just search for the anatomy of the M. psoas major an you'll find the structures it comes from (Origin) (T-spine 12 +lumbar spine 1-5) an the structure it pulls on (Insertion) (lesser trochanter of the femur) chance puntucm fixum and puntum mobile et voila the psoas does extension in the lubar spine instead of flexion in the hips :) i hope this helps, greetings from a german PT ;)
thanks
Ok. Im kinda new to dead lifting (correctly anyways). I have been looking to optimize my form but it seems everyone has a different opinion on what that is. It seems Kelly is teaching a different set up than Rip from starting strength.When Kelly shows the way NOT to set up it looks like the way starting strength says to set up. Who is correct? Or did I miss something?
@purchell53 exactly! @all (ans purchell53) feel free to ask other questions, I'll try my best to give you a good answer :)
Mr. Starrett I am new at dead-lifting and I am just needing some clarification on (min 2:55) when you said butt pushed back, do you mean like pushing your butt back like donald duck? I ask this because I am rounding on the bottom of my lower back when I dead-lift about 90% and I trying to figure out how not to do that. Thank you for the video!
No matter what I tried I couldn't stop my back rounding with conventional, but as soon as I switched to sumo its dead flat and will easily surpass my conventional soon!
Anthony Gorsuch He means push the butt back, like if your arms were full of groceries, and you had to shut your car door with your butt. Hope that visual helps.
when he starts pulling, are his shins at a 90 degree angle? i can't see.
interesting post. there's a video by mark rippetoe advising the technique you criticize here. i instinctively follow the setup you advise, but was trying rippetoe's method. it felt unnatural and i didn't like it. i'll switch back now.
You never deadlift by keeping your back hyperextended. That is why you squeeze the butt and release the psoas on the way up. If you use it anyways, which a lot of people don't. The issue can be the motor pattern seen if people forget to unload the psoas (noobs probably do this). It's just unnatural to stand up with your hips rotated like that. What you do is raise the chest up. That will put your back in a more stable position. Ideally the back should be as neutral as possible. So work on stretching the hamstrings out in order to do so. But you only need to keep your chest up. You dont need to pull the psoas tight. Typically this is never cued.
@Krpi No I hit all of my reps, but I do what is recommended in the video not to (getting tight AFTER grabbing the bar in the bottom position). If you go to my channel it should be my most recent video called "HFS and Deficit Deadlift 11-26-11".
favourited!
@etekeos
Stand erect behind bar, bend over until you touch the bar, bend knees till shins hit bar: that's what is advocated in this video and it's the same thing rippetoe teaches. If you did otherwise then that's not following rippetoe.
@EliteKrieGer -.- "chance" I obviously mean "change" and i forgot to say: through the "extension-action" of the psoas you're unable to archive full extension in the hip and compensate through lumbar hyperextension (like Kstarr said)
Uh...I think I get it
maybe not explicitly...
Rippetoe teaches chest up whereas Kelly mentions nothing of it here
I'm pretty sure that Rippetoe is teaching more of a "bottom up" stacking method, so that "chest up" is supposed to get the lower back out of flexion and into a more neutral position. If you're already in neutral spinal alignment before you even bend over, it's not necessary. Looking up is also not needed, because they you're taking yourself out of neutral cervical spine alignment.
Bend down and grab the bar like you're about to dead lift. Then look up. Then without changing your neck/head position, stand straight back up. Where are you looking? Is it straight ahead? If you're looking up at an angle then you are not in neutral cervical alignment.
He using big words. Sounds very smart. I also very smart. I understand. Video good!
Honestly as someone who "over analyses" ie does their research and has an interest in anatomy, this was a bit much. Dude was throwing around these fucking words with a mouth full of spit, talking all fast, and breathing heavy the whole time. Sounded like some juiced up football couch. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about but he can't communicate it well. Wasn't a super advanced concept either, just was explained that way. "BOOM!"