Cannondale Supersix Evo Repair
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- We show the repair method used for the Cannondale Supersix Evo Headtube disaster design failure.
A Titanium insert was fitted to avoid metal to carbon impact, a common failure with this model.
If you have one of these that has failed let us know if you would like it repaired
On this channel we show marketing free, real information about the bikes that you ride.
Support us with merch / @luescherteknik
www.luescherteknik.com.au
www.insidecarbonbikes.com
#insidecarbonbikes - Спорт
Brilliant solution! 👏👏👏
Cannondale should be liable for such a terrible design and should recall/refund every owner
Excellent content as always - Many thanks Raoul 🙏
GREAT VIDEO AGAin! Happy to report this one only needed 1.25 speed. 1.5 was too fast. Great work chief
Omg he sounds human at 1.25 instead of brain damaged
What a fantastic fix. Excellent work
I think I'll just avoid frames that route the cables through the stem and into headtube. I need my peace of mind.
That's what I am doing!
Have you seen many focus Izalxo Max's come through with issues in this region Raoul? Or any other? The more recent 2019+ model
I never thought that in the process of saving money id be ducking a huge problem. Exposed routing for me as well
Titanium frame with all external routing for me carbon for though and discs, carbon 650B wheels and I a trade qualified composite technician. I wouldn't trust a close moulded carbon frame with questionable quality control Which rules out every carbon bike manufacturer.
Your thoughts on repair are what we need going forward. Actually fixing these companies engineering shortcomings goes beyond - well done m8.
Very well done. I really appreciate your care for the environment. We need much more of that in the world. Can you please do a video on how you repair broken carbon? It's hard for me to visualize how you actually match the original layup for one, but then how you make it flush and looking new is beyond me. I'd love to see you do the process. Thanks!
There is an article on the website fyi
Fantastic and elegant solution to correct the issue with these frames.
Very neat and tidy solution, brilliant 🤩
Congratulations, great message, recycling and reuse is a powerful way.👏👏👏
Clever solution to repair the head tube!
This is a brilliant solution to a “less than ideal” design flaw. You are right we need to stop throwing stuff away and get it repaired instead.
Agree, but how do we ensure Cannondale designs and constructs RIGHT FIRST TIME produce to avoid downstream safety, waste and cost implications?
Building it right in the first place is what's needed foremost.
great job!
I can just imagine Hephaestus saying to Cannondale, Cervelo, and basically every carbon bike manufacturer out there:
“And this, kids, is why we need an uncle Raoul thinking logically and giving us sensible fixes for the cr@p we made” 😎
Brilliant video, sir!
No any problem with cervelo s3disc:)
Lockdown in Australia, a neverending story. Cheers from Belgium
I have a merida, I paid a fraction of Dale or big s type money, even though it came with full di2 and carbon wheels.
It has a stop setup in the head tube, but the stop blocks are big cubes of carbon with a matching seat to mate to.
While I bet it's possible to break this arrangement, it going to be a huge impact that does it.
Strange that the expensive bikes can't do the simple stuff right.
I don't see it as "strange". If a company is strictly interested in maximizing profits, then there is no room for sanity in any respect. These brands aren't interested in cycling or bikes, if you ask me. They just found a way to make some idiots handing their money over to them. Oh, and pretty much all of these crooks make their own crappy cranksets, because they want to save the money for a proper Shimano crankset in order to get profits as close to sales as possible.
especially given merida owns part of big S and does their manufacturing....
@@supersixmikeohimod that particular irony was not lost on me.
This is not a repair. This is the next evolution of the bike!
Nice job. I good ethics aswell
It’s a crime that the titanium insert isn’t there to begin with! Goes to show a lack of knowledge from the designers thinking up these bikes. I’m all for innovation but the limitations of materials need to be taken into account.
Great solution you’ve got there and brilliant to save bikes going to waste over such a small yet important detail. Hopefully if youtubers like yourself keep showing up the big bike companies they’ll up their game and stop making sub par designs!
Do you really think it's a lack of knowledge behind this fraught Cannondale's design? I mean, two moving parts, one of a hard material, the other soft, repeatedly making contact, which do you think is going to wear out and fail first? This doesn't require an engineering degree to figure out.
Don't forget that engineers rarely have the final say, $$$. I can't imagine that a bike engineer wouldn't have warned of this happening but someone wanted to rush the bike to market anyways or cut costs.
How did the 2021 version fix this issue?
I wonder how much more sound the older double diamond supersix evo is. One of my fave bike frames.
You are g'damn awesome. I don't (won't) go carbon again unless it be like an old Giant Cadex. Ty.
Just had one of those come through!
BRILLIANT! SOLUTION!!! REAL ENGINEERS FIXING HOODIE ENGINEER DESIGN @1.5x speed always!!!
Hello Raoul
Wonderful solution!
Is there any possibility of getting tour titanium plate here in Brazil?
Hi there! Thank you so much for the informative video and thank you to the community for the comments. Would you mind sharing the CAD files of the titanium part for the repair?
That would be a great simplification for the repair!
Thank you very much!
I do, the link is in a video called Cannondale Repair Insert Available ua-cam.com/video/FNPUMOjVDtI/v-deo.html
Brilliant. This just goes to prove that not all people that design carbon bikes are.
And on the 3rd day him upstairs made Luescher Teknik.
Any thoughts why they don't just do a one piece bar setup that would route the cables into the fork steerer by the top cap? Seems so much easier to engineer than this void in front of the steerer.
Bicycles are marvelous but the cycling industry is atrocious in many ways. Thank you for saving another bike from landfill.
We can just casually 3D print a titanium part to fix a bike. This is so cool.
It's a side benefit of blowing trillions on military research in how to murder people.
My 21' tcr has had 0 issues
Very common problem among these new Cannondale framesets. My buddy had his replaced by Cannondale. I'm glad that when I had the choice, I went with a leftover EVO. #ZeroIssues
"verte common problem" oh muy god
@@Jose__Manuel 08:52
Some of those also had headset issues, but different headset issues.
@@socaldadful The early Cracknfail models did.
Теперь осталось , получить патент.... и сорвать джекпот с Cannondale👍!!!
My bike cracked for the second time in that same location and I will continue to ride as it is. It does not look like it is very unsafe as it still has the whole tube supporting the fork pressure but will start slowly and see how it feels.
I do not recommend riding a damaged frame.
@@LuescherTeknik I am wondering why this is a structural problem. Most of the defects are 5-8mm or smaller. This seems to me a cosmetic problem, a stupid design , but this would not appear to weaken the headtube integrity. Tell me why this is a danger?
Is this also a problem with the System six? And will this also fit this model? I have a 2019 Systemsix with the same headtube design and stopper. Haven't had any damage yet but would be interested in proactively stopping the damage 🙂
planing on buying a used 2021 model unknow if this was fixed or not on the 21 model??
Does any know if the 2021 rim brake super six evo has the same issue?
I’m just about to purchase it.
That looks like a super solid fix and what Cannondale should have put in the frame in the fist place. Speaking of which, is Cannondale doing anything retroactively about bikes already in the market?
Also, would carbon reinforced polymer work for the insert instead of Ti?
What polymer?
@@johnsmith1474 No clue, I'm not an expert but I know Magura uses a proprietary injection molded plastic / carbon material in their levers and master cylinders because its more durable to impacts than carbon fiber.
I am not aware of any factory repair on this. The polymers you note are thermoplastic which does not readily bond to the the thermoset frame with epoxy adhesives.
On 2021 frames they followed same approach as you did, draw back of this - metal stopper on the fork gets snapped.
Interesting how they will improve on 2022 model.
Hi. Could you send a picture of how this new version looks like? I'll try to confirm if nice has it. It is a 2021 model.
@@wgfilho if it is 2021 model, it has a metal insert just as seen on this video.
@@karolissimenas8003 Thanks! I'll remove the fork to take a look at that. :)
What's the price? In any case now it should fail at the pin. Best to repair, but a carbon frame in a landfill is inconsequential.
Thats awesome, im willing to buy one just for safety! Do you these? Thank you.
Hi there, great fix thanks. I have exactly the same - not quite as bad as your examples but can see crack on outer one side. How do i buy the insert? we use carbon and laminate at work a lot so i'm pretty comfortable in doing it except not sure the resin you mention, Do you provide some instructions for the repair. Failing that there's a local guy who's a wiz at carbon bike frame repairs. Thanks for that
I did a post on how to get an insert for people outside of Australia.
Perfect example of what happens when an engineer is presented with a problem. Problem solved, damage repaired, and environmental impact minimized. Nice Job! Now just sell the design to Cannondale. Does this get paid for under a warranty claim?
Often they create more problems.
what's the cost to 3d print one of those titanium inserts?
Good luck even finding someone to do it.
Has this been fixed by Cannondale in the 2021 models?
Man the more I see these videos about these carbon bike issues I'll stick to my aluminum frames
clever hack. any chance you'd ship the part so I can install it pre-emptively on my 2021 super-six?
Yes, that would be a good idea.
Great video Shouldn’t the manufacturer be retro-fitting these, or using local specialists? How would 6000 Al or stainless compare in machining, corrosion, cost, durability?
It's 3D printed, no machining. Your questiosn are nonsense, one would have to do testing and a study to answer. Instead he designed a solution that just works.
@@johnsmith1474 Think you may be underestimating Rs vast experience Just looking for an easy answer
I think that they should support their product. Ti is best for bonding to carbon.
Any idea why this issue is present on the rim brake version too? There was no need for them to put in a hydraulic hose defence mechanism...
It is, you can route your shifter cables through the frame still. Frames after a certain date came with a metal protector to prevent damage.
@Luescher Teknik My Cannondale frame had exactly the same damage and was meanwhile repaired - obviously without your titanium part, though. Would you ship the titanium part here to Germany so I could have it installed by a local carbon specialist (who did the repair on my frame)?
You should have asked for a replacement frame, I got mine without any discussions (also Germany).
Sure we could look at this, I would need to confirm a few things with the repairer first to explain the process.
Hi every one ! That’s the same thing In my bike and take off a big chunk in my folk and crack the paint in the frame to
I’m riding like that I see it strong but I’m really like to fixed
won't the metal strengthening of the head tube now break the pin? I think I read something along those lines, perhaps was juts someone expressing a concern
I haven't tested that, as it would be a destructive test, the pin in the fork is quite solid though.
Where can we purchase this ti fix please ? My SS Hi-Mod has no damage so far but I have accidentally turned the bars full lock and felt the pin contact - so would like thus repair to my unmanaged frame ?
We can do it here for you.
Where I can get that titanium piece? I’m located in USA.
Looks like a 3d part fabricated by Bastion?
Why do the less severe examples need repair? Is it your contention that this would weaken the headtube and cause further delamination without further stress? Thanks for considering this serious question.
The delamination damage may grow during further use which could result in a larger failure. Thus it is best to repair as soon as the damage is noted.
@@LuescherTeknik Thanks for your reply. I have shared the damage in pics on my SS Evo (2020 model) with cannondale, which generally corresponds to your less severe examples. The delamination is about 3mm long at the lowest extent of the head tube. They suggested that "extensive testing" reassured that this defect was only cosmetic in nature. I completely agree with you that the design is flawed and it is unreasonable that they should have overlooked this issue. But it seems to me further delamination in most of theses cases would only occur if there is continued overrotation of the fork.
Brilliant fix! Can this be purchased and installed on a non broken frame to prevent it from happening? I am very interested in getting my hands on one of these!
Yes, however it needs to be bonded properly with correct surface treatments etc so not just a simple thing. Obviously we can do it for you here.
@@LuescherTeknik unfortunately I am in the US. Is the bonding something any carbon repair shop could do?
@@taylorpreisler5863 I can look into it.
Hello, can you tell me where to buy this part
What a great solution. Is there any chance of getting this titanium insert shipped to the UK? I have an excellent local shop that does carbon repairs who would be willing to insert this for me. Already had one frame written off due to cracking in the head tube, and I'd like to do some preemptive work on my replacement frame. Thanks again for a great video!!
Hi Mike, did you get anywhere with your repair? Im from the UK too and has a small fall last night which has resulted in this same damage! Had the bike 2 months and will be very sad if it’s going to the tip before I’ve even finished paying for it! Cheers
@@mujlos hi Luke, have you cracked the head tube? I sent photos to the store I purchased from and they spoke with cannondale who agreed to replace the frame. They said it was not under warranty but a good will gesture. Basically they don’t want to admit the stop pin is a sh1t idea. In the first instance I would speak with the retailer. Explain you think the damage is down to the stop pin hammering the carbon. When I sent the pics they could see the bike was generally on good condition and purchased within the year. Cannondale agreed a replacement and the store I bought from sorted it all. Good luck.
Another thing to note is cannondale started putting inserts in in later models. If you do get a replacement frame you will find it comes with an insert that stops the stop pin hammering your carbon.
Is this the same with the rim brake version of the supersix evo?
Unfortunately, owning one and having the fork stop contact the head tube (non-fatally for the bike or my person), I believe so.
apart from the energy wasted to build the bike, which is not negligible, the carbon frame is actually a carbon sink, as that carbon will not be released any time soon
It's a trivial volume of carbon, and at any rate carbon is not the problem in an atmosphere, the problem is CO2. You could blow powdered carbon into the air with pumps all day and it does nothing harmful.
clever. but what are your thoughts on the utility of hairdressers?
Those telephone sanitizers are definitely in need now!
Bikes should be simple. We already have complex cars.
Is there a befit in limmiting the steering rotation? I wonder why they do this on high end bikes.
?
I don't think many bikes have this feature.
I believe the rotation is limited in order to avoid the internal cables from being compressed if rotated to the extreme.
Not defending Cannondale , but under what circumstances would anyone turn the steer tube that far? Is this just from passive impacts of handlebar rotation when lifting up the bike?
hmm cycling through crowds when you need to keep twisting left right?
Trackstanding at a stop. I do it all the time on every ride.
It's to stop bar slap as against the top tube I believe. The idea is good just poorly implemented.
@@glennoc8585 The stop is there to keep the internally routed cables from getting crimped by the fork and head tube. This is mentioned in this, and his other videos. Bars hitting the top tube are usually a size and ergonomic fit issue, depending on how many spacers a rider needs under the stem. There’s no way for bike companies to reliably compensate for that for all bikes.
Placing it in the boot of a car usually requires turning the handlebars. I used to keep a piece of foam insulation and a flexible Velcro strap to secure my bars safely turned before I could afford a nicer vehicle with a bike rack.
Did Cannondale adopted a solution like yours on the recent models?
I did a video of their solution, not as good as my solution but better than the original.
I am wondering, are Cannondale replacing these frames and repairs you make are just for customers who don't want to bother through going with warranty service?
My son had exactly this happen and Cannondale Europe wanted evidence of the bottom bracket cut away and separate from the frame before releasing a new frame at a discounted price. Not ideal.
Agree, under commercial law, this is a manufacturing fault and free remedy should not be repair a fault, rather REPLACE A FAULT without a fault or refund.
Repair is great, however, it does not ensure Cannondale improves their technology nor consumer experience.
Got recall written all over it.
@@silvercyclist3744 EXACTLY, materials science/design FAIL = RECALL.
I had the same damage, complained with the dealer and received a 2021 model replacement frame for free without any discussions, plus a €100 coupon for the hassle. Had to send in the old frame after receiving the new one. EU here.
Why The hell Cannondale did NOT evaluate that risk in the first place and come up with a solution.......beats me! Lets Hope PON HOLDING will do a better job now they've bought DOREL SPORTS.
It must have been designed by the guys who also designed the cervelo S5
And the sl7🤣
The S5 was never recalled, it was considered normal wear and tear, and the frame had reached end of life, and thus, not a even warranty issue. They’re the F1 race car version of bikes, after all. What BS. Or, maybe not, considering the quality of welds that got Senna killed. I was told that such welding was standard practice in the F1 world at the time, so maybe we shouldn’t be surprised with this crap.
Hi Mate, I have the same issues 🤣 would like to get a quote to get this fix from you please.
Send me a email
I have one I'd love to have you repair. However I'm in the U.S. It would be great if you were to license a trustworthy carbon repair shop in the U.S. to do the repair using your part. It's a lot more environmentally friendly shipping your part across the seas than shipping all those fractured Cannondales.
Let me look into it.
Same for UK please, are there any companies you can recommend / license this to? I have a 2020 HM Rapha Team bike I would like to have strengthened as prevention.
Do you sell these inserts?
I acn get them printed to order, send me an email.
This is pretty hilarious, and sad. Do these designers actually test the products they make or have any practical experience? because this issue seems pretty obvious.
nope, they know, but they keep selling them out the door, so their mentality is, if they're selling don't change anything, They are in a business of selling bikes, if their bikes lasted forever they'd be out of business pretty fast.. Thats the sad truth of it, it costs a lot of money for the engineers to change or replace a part not to mention the pre production testing, so they just keep it the same and save money, their selling their product regardless
I dont think these big brands test bikes. I think they just browse thru the OEM catalogues and look for designs that look like they would sell yet also designs that look similar to the other brands. Then they crunch the numbers profit wise and give the approval.
I mean it is OBVIOUS to me that nobody who works on bikes or rides them a lot would design this junk.
@@durianriders agree Harley
Cannondale are replacing frames under warranty. If a dealer doesn't do it go straight to Cannondale.
Are they replacing them for this specific issue? If so, can you tell us how you know? If not, that's we understand. I have one that is in need of repair. Thanks.
I can also see a large area of half depth/ unsupported section for the outer bearing race! More poor design. This is one of the most highly stressed areas on the frame! Shocking design.
Does any one know if the issue is present in the Super Six Evo SE/CX model?
Externally routed.
@@bikes666 It's got nothing to do with routing.
@@johnsmith1474 no fork stop pin on evo cx or se models, or internally routed through the headtube. These models had a 'standard' design. Better?
@@bikes666 great to hear thanks
Hello Raoul, i hope you are fine in Australia. What is the solution for european SuperSix owners to fix that ?
Looking into it for non Australians ;)
@@LuescherTeknik If you know someone like you in Europe haha... ;)
Content audio loudness if this video is -15.4dB
What should it be? Serious question, video production is not my area of expertise and I don't want it to be less than ideal if I can help it.
@@LuescherTeknik There's clarity but volume can be improved imo. Your microphone recording volume may have been lowered automatically by the computer, I would check that first. If it's a cardioid microphone (looks like it) just reposition it or yourself. Thanks for ongoing videos though, they're great :)
It seems many of the manufacturers put out poor quality, if not out right dangerous carbon bikes. Internal routing thru the head tube for hydraulic cables, is totally stupid as you can't even see the wear taking place
I'm no genius, but a metal stop pin slamming into carbon will obviously damage the carbon. The harder material will win every time. The fix is only temporary imo too. The harder material will eventually destroy the weaker one. So maybe the TI fix breaks the stop pin and you eventually shear your internally routed cables. This is a horrible design, Cannondale engineers must be 5 years old to let this out to the public.
5 years old? HELLO HAMBINI FANS!
Metal pins on carbon..what could possibly go wrong!
😂
Narcs on UA-cam, what xould go wrong
I just bought the supersix evo.. it was around 4700... I only used it once for a short ride. It's a 2021 model.. would this model have the metal plate you mentioned?
Canondale have to take them all cus is a lot of bikes like that my model is the 2021 and they no sed nothing about it they ignore me and I pay 3500 for my bike
Unfortunately it seems a few class action lawsuits are needed before the cycling industry takes product safety and quality seriously.
The same engineering approach that sees aero as the most important of design goals caused the fault in this model, as well as the Specialized fork failure recall clustercoitus that Raoul has just reviewed. Perhaps frames should be designed for structural integrity (& rider safety) first & foremost, & saving a handful of watts with shiny surfaces much lower down the scale? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?
The level of incompetence in the bike industry is so ridicules... but as long as they don't run out of idiotos who pay 10k for literally every shit I guess there is no need to change the business model
I grew up about 25 miles from the Bedford PA factory. It is sad that they made a world class product in the USA and moved it to China. It is sad that they now make a crap product.
They made crap for at least the last 6 years..
One example is that they didn't strengthen size L and XL frames compared to the smaller ones. We replaced about 1/3 of the scalpel frames on warranty and don't forget about the Lefty disaster several years ago where it was recalled each year (3 times in a row)
I sold my 2010 CAAD 9 last May. I regret that so much. Was easily my favorite road bike of all time. Believe it was the last of the USA made frames too. 😔
@@Nico-jt8ll They closed the Bedford factory in 2015 and stopped building bikes there in 2009.
@@sixate it was the last
Thats bad cannondale quality control is horrible with Cannondale and there warranty is garbage
Oh! Just hush about unsustainability!! There is plenty of room on our earth for landfills. In ten years we'll all look back and say " Man! Cannond.... speciali.... and Cerve.... made crap bikes! I'm glad I threw mine in the trash and got an X, Y or Z.
To me this just reeks of inexperienced designers not having anyone around to do design reviews.
Is it a case of all the good engineers end up working in aerospace and F1 and the leftovers end up working on bikes? (Probably getting paid next to nothing while the marketing guys take home a packet by the way)
What idiot engineer designed that? A metal pin bumping up against a carbon fibre surface is only going to end one way. Nice job Cannondale.
American Engineering. You can see the standard of their graduates
Built in redundancy; the bike “wears out” so the consumer buys a new bike. Trouble with this design is that it wears out faster than they predicted.
Just wretched engineering and design from Cannondale. And this is from an non engineer.
Ladies and gentlemen, step up step up. Who will be the first manufacturer to kill a rider through abysmal engineering? Come on manufacturer's don't be shy, will it be Cannondale, Specialized or will it be Cervelo, Canyon to take the mantle through mediocracy, mindlessness and the race to the "bottom" engineering. Come on we're aiming high to aim low. What's that you say, handlebars, seatposts and frame junctions? Or can we save a bit of time through catastrophic steerer failure whilst braking and face plant into the tarmac breaking your jaw, smashing every single one of your front teeth as they eject straight through your mouth below your lip, before lubricating the tarmac with your brains from your broken skull. Roll up roll up. Which manufacturer, which failure first. Maybe a failed brake hose on a Specialized, WHO WILL BE FIRST? Who be the first rider to buy it? Stayed tuned with these manufacturer's as your friend, you won't need enemy's. The grim reaper or is that rider is on they're way. Bet your resale on a SL7 is looking grand. What a total dogs hind leg
It may have already happened, it just hasn't been made public. Lots of close calls recently though.
@@LuescherTeknik When I was involved around the mining/heavy industry the guy who was teaching hydraulics in my trade was a union rep mine deputy for 21 years. He told us in a toolbox talk the mine manager walked in and said, "we've had so many near misses, so many minor injuries, so many hospital admissions we're due for a death. Two weeks later bingo. What level of substance, strength of character, integrity do these companies have? If I was their manager I'd start the conversation by kicking a few chairs and desks over and asking for the resignation of the senior engineer before security escorted them from the building. Totally untenable when safety is knowing withheld over a family man's head. Unacceptable. Thanks for the reply.