New Rule: The College Scam | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2021
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Bill delves into what ‘higher education’ in America really is: a racket that sells you a very expensive ticket to the upper middle class.
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The bit about college being a ticket to upper middle class, got me scratching my head.
A degree, nowadays, is just a participation fee to enter a marathon. No guarantees that you will go anywhere, even if you pay it.
Exactly!! I always remind my children that a college degree is essentially a six figure lottery ticket. Manage your time and money wisely and avoid useless courses/degrees.
However, without it you are not even allowed into the game. So you are stuck.
Yup and still so many boomers refuse to (or can't) retire. Especially for those seeking PhDs with the hope of being a professor... There are virtually NO tenure track positions at colleges anywhere. I was a college instructor for $35k a year...had to quit and return to teaching high school where the pay was better.
Yes, but individual results are not statistical results. The stats he cites at the beginning of the video are reliable indicators of the likelihood of success.
It's probably a correlation more than a causation issue. If you come from a middle class family, you're more likely to go to college.
True. My wife was laid off in her field after 20 years. Now, all of a sudden, to get back in her field, she needs a higher degree! They don't care about the experience, just the degree. WTF?
What I don't get is why private industry supports the lie. It's not like colleges pay them, quite the opposite. If someone has experience and is good, why make them have a degree? In my field it's because the customer demands it, but there are plenty of industries that just need results.
It's because the highering manager and the HR recruiter had yo spend $80,000 and 6 years getting a degree and you will too if you want to work there. But who already has spent the money on the degree? Their frat/sorority buddy who graduates in six months.
Yup, mom retired after 48 years as library director in Massachusetts, my sister was (and still is) the children’s librarian there, she’s also been there longer than mom (over 50 years now) but wasn’t considered as a replacement because she needed “more college”!
WTF indeed! And when you are a college student trying to enter the field for the first time, they don't care about the degree, they want the experience!
What is this?
I had the same problem! I was unemployed 10 years ago and tried to apply for the same type of job I had previously been working in, yet apparently I had to have a degree to do that work. I didn't have one at the time so missed out. Surely knowing how to actually do the job would've been beneficial to theorists? Idiots! Anyway I have a degree now and won't be applying for any jobs at those companies.
I was not allowed to be a “Librarian,” even with 10 years working in a library, unless I attended a private university for another year to get a Master’s degree. What a rip! I was checking out books not performing quadruple by-pass surgeries.
That dewey decimal systems a mother.
@@rollotomassi4768 🤣
INSANE....
You didn't get indoctrination title
WTF!
Anybody who has a college degree will tell you that they learned more in 1 month on the job then they did throughout their whole time in college (unless you're a doctor or particular engineer).
Most engineering disciplines are better off getting a degree. In fact most engineering positions require a degree (Especially if you're looking for employment. Entrepreneurship is another story) with a few exceptions.
Have a cousin who got a bachelors degree in Computer Science. He eventually got hired by a pretty big company around where we live and he told me exactly what you said. School didn’t really teach much at all of what he was doing on the job. As someone currently in college to get a bachelors degree for Computer Science this kind of scares me and is a little dispiriting to me as well.
@@Mister3Pac its just foundational knowledge. One cant expect to get depth for a specific field with a BS.
I am an engineer, and arguably I learned half of what I need to know in my industry over a month shadowing a supervisor who was barely literate.
@@erickottke9673 how often does your job hire without degrees and can get you get a professional engineering license in your state without a degre?
"You just dropped a hundred fifty grand on a fuckin' education you could have gotten for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library." - Matt Damon as Will Hunting
My boy's wicked smaht.
Yea but the character’s response about being in a higher paying job after graduating holds true unfortunately.
No late charges on the internet. And you can watch MIT classes.
@@MyMostBeautifuCinema Maybe so, but at least I won't be unoriginal. But if there's a problem we can step outside.
@@MyMostBeautifuCinema how do you like them apples? ^
I hate how parents make it seem as if you're committing a felony for not wanting to go to college. Even if you don't know what you want to do.
It’s the stupid ideologies they were raised on
@@Westcoast10 Sir ✋✋✋✋ how are you?? Can I talk to you?
The crazy thing is, parents want their kids to go to college but they don’t wanna pay for it or help 🤨😑😒
Yep, I've got a bachelor's degree in psychology from Northeastern Illinois University, and master's degrees in math and computer science from the same university, and I'm still scratching my head wondering how much I really learned while attending those programs. Some good teachers there, some good classes, but in general I felt like I was wasting a lot of money and even more time. One graduate student in the CS program actually told me to my face, "Doug, I'm not here to really learn anything. I'm just here to get a degree and that's it!" Oh great! It's really sad. I've been working as an adjunct at a community college for many years now. Oh my gosh, what a total scam that is. The number of students continues to decline, the number of teachers continues to decline, and yet surprisingly the number of administrators continues to grow! The message is clear. If you're a student or a teacher (especially an adjunct) at a college or university, then you are just totally screwed and exploited. Colleges and universities are great places for administrators, but shitty places for everybody else. It's really sad to me. The state of education in America right now is horrible. It's not about learning anymore. It's not about real scholarship. It's not about preparing students for the real world out there. It's about donating as much money as possible to some dumb academic corporation that thinks they're entitled to the money in your wallet. Truly pathetic. And extremely sad.
German here. We do have a system for 3 year craftsman training (Duale Ausbildung) that mixes on the job and school,training. I am an engineer (applied science) with extra certification as an instuctor (Ausbilderschein) so I have been part of the apprenticeship training AND know what they teach at University (both the theoretical and the applied science type). The training at the university goes into more detail and teaches more universal/wider knowledge as well as how to apply that to a real world problem. The craftsman training is more narrow and the on the job part concentrates on the "company needs" . This enables the freshly graduated engineer to be used more flexible and the better choice if you want someone who can get into a new area of the job quickly. The freshly certified craftsman is a better choice if you need the very special skill set gained during that persons apprenticeship
Students figured out about 25 years ago not to study for the course, but to study for the test. This was because govt and the TU were more worried about the no. of those moving up than getting an education in the elementary and jr/hs years due to education standardized testing.
I picked up Guitar in college. Dropped out and never looked back.
Truly sad indeed. I will never support American universities in their current form.
@Kazuhira Miller Yeah, I have a bachelor's in psychology, with master's degrees in mathematics and computer science. But I will NEVER have the same skill set as someone who did his or her undergraduate work in math and computer science. That's the problem with a lot of these master's programs. They often lie to you about the prerequisites just because they want your $$$$$$. That's a darn shame. Just another example of why these colleges and universities have lost so much of their credibility. They have lost credibility because they place a higher premium on financial gain than on the quality of student learning.
4:14 I'm a teacher, with a worthless college degree. Every 5 years I have to pay $1000 for 2 MORE classes so I can continue to do a job I've been doing for 27 years. What a racket.
How do you feel about the current state of primary education from K12-12th grade?
You’re college degree was the ticket to the teaching profession, so it was not worthless.
Lawyers at the round table of 'continual education taxation' , What are our revenue projections for this departments budget? Yeah, it is a sad, but it is a thing, you are basically a walking wallet to the state and federal gov. They call this CEU's in the medical field, but the only people hit by it are all the people that make under 100k per year.
I got Fleeced too ... sorry 🤫🇺🇸🙏🙏🙏hang in there ☮️💪💪💪
Finland teachers need a Mater’s degree and many have a PhD.
Didn’t go to college but went to Tech school..way,way less $$..As An Aircraft Mechanic I make $130,000-$160,000 with full medical benefits and 401k match program..while my friends who went to College are making less, and can’t even change a furnace filter or a bad AC Sensor..the college grift is real...
My son will graduate with an associate's in aircraft mechanics next spring. He will graduate at the age of 19 while most of his friends will just be starting the classes that actually apply to their degrees at the four-year colleges and will have paid less for two years than some kids pay for one. I'm so proud of him for choosing a trade school route!
@@crazycat1232 is there a specific vocation you're in to make that much? I googled architectural drafting because I'd never heard of it and it said they make 60k. Not counting your pockets or implying you're lying, just curious about the field itself.
@@crazycat1232 that explains it all. #1. Florida has a higher than average pay range. #2. You work for a drafting firm, not an architecture firm. Architects would never pay you that much, or even close. (I know from experience).
So congrats on getting into an extremely niche, lucrative position. Don't ever give that up.
So you're a mechanic ... big whoop
@@weehudyy
Do you make that much per year?
"The answer is not to make college free, the answer is to make it more unnecessary."
I agree. Most of those colleges courses you can learn at your own pace at home.
Yup, and the it’s practically FREE too.
True, but sad truth is they never do "learn on their own". Most people need a structure to help them through it.
And even worse: most of them are completely unnecessary for your future occupation to begin with.
What he meant is that companies can look for people with a batchelors for any office job, because they are everywhere, even if the job is simple. Most jobs really do not require 4 years of extra schooling, you can just shadow someone who already does the job
The point he's making is to POP THE "EDUCATION" BUBBLE. Take the time and money you would spend learning something irrelevant and use that time and money to enjoy LIFE.
Take that $40,000 tuition and use it as a down payment on a house. Buy a car. Take a trip. Spend money on OTHER businesses. Make the economy go.
Amen. I’ve debated this issue for years with people. College has its place for certain professions yet Ive always wondered why no one has sued a company for discrimination when a college degree is required over experience. Thank you for your words.
My view is that experience really tunes up a person's bullshit antenna whereas a young person takes longer to realise they are being exploited.
Same reason why you need a driver license to drive regardless of your actual years of driving experiences or you need a license to pratice laws or medicines which in turn require college and med school regardless of how many years you have done it successfully and illegally(or legally elsewhere, idk).
For government and society, it is about public safety. For company, it is the same thing. It is about their own safety. If they want you to have a degree, go get a degree. I'm not saying you are less capable without it, but on average, people without degree are, in fact, less capable.
You wouldn't want meat that is not organic certified if you want the best and healthiest meat now, would you? College degree is the same thing, it certified people. It doesn't certify that they can do the job require but it does certify they have the endurance and the ability to complete the course works to get the degree, many of which are no different than what those bullshit technical interviews test their candidates with btw. That is enough for most companies and those without such degree, generally get drop regardless of experiences.
I’m a computer tech. I never went to college, but most of my coworkers did. We make the same amount of money but I don’t have college loans..
Why did your coworkers go to college to become computer techs
So you only know how to do one thing? How boring.
Fantastic. Most companies won't hire people without a diploma/degree. Unless you're a female or unless you're black. If you're a white male, you're not getting anywhere without a degree.
bit of a leap of logic there bud
How much do you make?
Sums it up perfectly, "The answer isn't to make college 'free'. The answer is to make it more unnecessary, which it is for most jobs."
There are so many awesome opportunities in learning trades like HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical and more. Many of those jobs are still looked down upon. When you can thrive and have an awesome career and/or business with a valuable skill set for you or your whole family. No college required. No need for years and years of student loans owed to the government. And companies are always looking for skilled workers.
How many people can go out and get really good paying work straight away, with just a college degree? Likely not all that many.
@@darcydoll437 ..plus the apprenticeship pays you to learn your trade
You do need some form of college or learn a trade to get a real career. There really is no point in working in retail or hospitality. Those careers are coming to an end.
I’d never want to do plumbing, because I hate the smell of shit, but those guys make good money doing it.
@@knelle1114 There are few degrees where you need a ton of education.
I saw the scam developing when I was in college in the sixties. That's when suddenly people needed a diploma for jobs that no one ever dreamed would require one. Professors decried making college a trade school but middle class parents liked the idea of being able to buy their kids (like me) a higher up place in the world. The huge tuition raises reflect the true motives of the administration and staff, to maintain their upper middle class lifestyles.
I've had discussions with professors from college who have talked about how pathetic the students they get are and how stupid they are and how uneducated they are because they're just passed up and passed along instead of actually educated.
Well alot of that has to do with "racism". Teachers will have proof undeniable evidence (the student rarely attended class, never turned in homework, failed every exam) and when they give the student an F or D, the student would scream "racism".
I cant tell you how many times Ive been in a Pre-Req class, which required an A or B to advance, seen folks get D's and F's on everything, no extra credit, then next year, Id see them in Level 2. No f'ing way they got a B or higher. But why were they allowed to advance? Cause Ive seen students chew out the professor, threaten their jobs, call them racist for not passing them, etc.
So most professors dont want the drama - they'll do whatever it takes to advance the student - make them somebody else's problem now.
When you think about it, the student suffers because the classes get harder and harder, and since they didnt get the extra tutelage they needed, they are more and more lost.
“ Never confuse education with intelligence, you can have a PhD and still be an idiot.” - Richard P. Feynman
Excellent quote, I love feynman
Knowledge and intelligence are two different things. Same goes for ignorance and stupidity (which is basically just the flip-side).
The percentage of idiots among PhDs are probably lower than among people only with elementary school education.
'Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.' ~ George Bernard Shaw
@@OnyxLee Hello. I just wanted to point out that the SAT is not pass-fail. That is all.
Shout out to trade colleges and community colleges.....and bring back shop and trade schooling.
Biden's plan is to cover two year degrees at community colleges.
Why bring back "trade schooling"? So people will learn a trade that will disappear? Many will.
@@bobfg3130 There will always be a need for electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs, welders, etc. And all of those trades are currently in desperate need of people.
Plumbers are making more than chemical engineers these days. People dont want to work or get dirty anymore. 10 years from now people in true skilled trades with be the ones making 100k a year while office workers will be making 50. Simple supply and demand.
@@HelloThere-jr6gd
Depends on the plumber and chemical engineer. Chemical engineers get a lot more money than plumbers. The main issue is that innovation will reduce the demand for plumbers. It will also affect other trades. Steel workers have dirty jobs too. They will become plumbers. There are others will disappear or they will be in less demand and they will migrate to these high paying trades like electricians and plumbers. The supply will go up.
I love how the audience is unsure when to clap.
That's a visible sign of the herd mentality of many social ideologies, afraid to stand out unsure of response, waiting to be told how...
@@Antechynus How true, lacking the brava/bravo!
@@anaibarangan4908 a sad reflection on the state of reasoned thought in modern society.
Groupthink ideology of liberals. They've never been substantively exposed to a reasoned, well articulated counter argument.
They don't know when to clap because there is an inherent contradiction in what Bill is arguing here. On the one hand he correctly points out that college graduates substantially more than non-college grads, on the other he argues that getting more people into college isn't the answer. The problem though is reality. The reality is that the reason those grads more is because they are doing the jobs that DO require a lot of education. There is no "learn as you work" path for engineers, doctors, computer scientists, chemists, etc. The real problem is that the jobs that Bill is referencing that don't require a college have a pretty low upper ceiling. He also argues half points. He argues that college is bad for reducing wealth inequality because of how much debt it puts people in. Sure, but the proponents of free college are advocating for...well free college. So if they got their way Bill's point is moot. He also exaggerates numerous times. A person does not need a Master's degree to file books...but they do need a Master's degree if they want to run a library. Legal knowledge, tracking systems, rare books and manuscripts, digital systems integrations, accounting...you're basically running a full on organization. If you want to file books you can go apply for a library assitant job and make $15 an hour no problem. But if you want to be in charge of $40M in rare documents (as is the case in many university libraries), you need a lot of background knowledge. He also makes the strawman "I don't want to pay" argument. Nobody is suggesting that Bob the plumber pays for someone else's college degree. All the proposals center around corporate taxing and closing wealthy tax loopholes that the super wealthy pay, etc.
4:13 I believe it. One of my high school friends had been an RN for about 5 years (thanks to a community college program) when she and the other nurses who didn’t have a bachelors degree were made to go back to college and get it or else they would be let go. She said they were so angry Because it was a waste of time and money. What else could they possibly learn when they had already learned everything on the job in their years working?
I'm a nurse and you're absolutely right!!!!
That's because extensive research has demonstrated that within the acute care setting patient outcomes are significantly improved if a certain percentage of the nursing staff have a BSN. If one is already an experienced nurse without a degree, will getting one improve them. Not necessarily. However, you won't find a single nurse who is a better nurse simply from lacking an education.
I'm in healthcare, and cannot stress how true this is. And now I'm stuck in a job I hate because the cost of getting here was so high.
A common phrase in the Air Force:
It takes a college diploma to break an airplane and a high school diploma to fix it.
It does takes a college diploma in engineering to design and manufactures the parts that you need to fix the airplane.
Mechanics are not engineers. Who do you think make the parts you use to fix the airplanes? Tooth fairy?
@@markarmage3776 It does take a college degree to design the parts and a college degree to price them.
This one is really good. I’m not going to attack education because I believe is a good thing, but the issue isn’t which level of education is good, but HOW USEFUL it is. In which case you are correct. Better a technician from a tech/occupational school with experience, than SCL graduated that never got his hand dirty.
It happened to me: one room in my house suddenly lost all electricity. I called a handyman company to send someone, and they sent 2 young electrical engineers who after much “analysis, theories, calculations, etc” gave me a $5000 quote!. I called the liaison company again to send someone else for a second opinion. This time an older electrician came and problem solved in 5 minutes. A breaker simply released itself because I had more electrical appliances running at the same time than the electrical lines could handle. In short the breaker did exactly what it was supposed to do. He showed me how to deal with this in the future, and charged me $25 only when I begged him to take a payment…
@@markarmage3776 it doesn't though, it is more common, but anyone can come up with new parts, I am working on a dessalination part right now, and am going to present it to engineer friends of mine to get their advice, but I did come up with it
BRILLIANT
“In 1960, 15% of college students received an “A.” Today, that number is 45%. That’s not because college graduates are getting smarter…”
That line was quite a sucker punch.
It's still like 1960 in engineering. I teach those classes and 15% probably get A and 15% fail.
I needed this so much! I kept pressing the CC button but it wasn’t working for some reason. Thank you.
@@watsonofbakerstreet Laugh in computer engineering central european course with 15% pass ratio
@@watsonofbakerstreet while I'm glad to hear that i thing its because of this. in engineering if you screw up there is a high probity that you and a lot of other people will die. severe consequences in case of a failure require that practitioners of the science know that the hell they doing. half assing it or not being committed to the tenets of of the discipline are not tolerated. just my 2 cents.
I’ve been saying this for the last 25 years. It’s good to see it finally being exposed.
I loved the days when a HS diploma got you in the door, and hard work and a willingness to learn was enough..Dependability, easy to work with....college degrees are necessary for specific areas of study, but not for the day to day jobs that common sense people can do. We need to bring all people into the workforce.
That's still the case.
I'm a teacher in NC. I make about 5x LESS than my friend that got a GED and started as an electrician and has worked his way up to a person who runs construction jobs. Even when he was "just" an electrician, he earned double my pay. I always encourage college OR trade schools. I think telling kids that they should want to go to college is a disservice to many of them. I know I can't: fix my car, my HVAC, my plumbing, or my electrical stuff. I am grateful to those that can!
And you, as a teacher, should really earn well too. Your work is more important than electrician's or a plumber's. You shape minds for tomorrow. Holy crap. How important is that?
So well said. It’s so important to tel the kids this. I see it in my classroom as well, they all just want to get rich but have no idea that trade schools probably get them there more often, more reliably and in a much more satisfactory way for most.
@@mscbijles1256 America's culture and extreme wealth inequality leads to a culture of wanting to get rich asap. What America needs is middle class capitalism instead of billionaire capitalism, where the wealth is more equally distributed. It breaks my heart to see the middle class being hollowed out and exploited. It shouldnt be this way.
@@scottamolinari
More important then an electrician?
Really?
@@non-wokeletsgobrandon394 Yep. Because teachers (should also) help in building up morally and rule abiding citizens, so that when they become electricians, they don't cut corners or do shoddy work, which could cost lives. I say "should also" because for sure, parents are a part of this too.
A few years ago, my college dropout self attended a seminar in DC on a women's issue that was full of expensively educated women--I think the "worst" school was Cornell (which is an Ivy League school, albeit lower echelon). About fifteen minutes into things, the internet went out, and everyone panicked. A frantic call was made to the IT person, a young black guy, even after a couple of us suggested that the modem just needed to be reset. Sure enough, that was the issue. We were taking a break and I was out in the hall when the IT guy came by. We started chatting, and I asked where he'd gone to school. He didn't, he said--he was in the Navy for a few years, then got this job. All I could think of was that there was a roomful of people who collectively had spent millions on higher education ... yet couldn't figure out how to push one stupid button.
I'm the same way, I never finished college just wasn't for me. But I was always good at fixing and building things as well as natural people skills so I'm a EMT and pharmacy technician with no debt
Those people lack innitiative, and common sense I guess.
College now is about group thinking, having personal beliefs or ideas that go over the group thinks ideology is punished.
Also probably every single thing in life has been handled to them and they cant do sh1t for themselves even if their live depend on it.
Yes, I totally get it. I have a degree in computer science. A lot of what I studied in school was SO abstract and theoretical. All kinds of complicated algorithms, Big-O notation, recursion, mutual recursion, tail recursion, etc, etc. But you know what? After I graduated I went out there into the real world and applied for some jobs in professional software development. Some of what I learned in college was indeed helpful, but I have to say in general my computer science curriculum did a really poor job of preparing me for the job market out there! Those lazy professors didn't really teach me the skills I needed to successfully compete against others applying for the same jobs that I wanted! I felt really discouraged after a while, and decided to just go into teaching. So now, I'm a math teacher. But that's really frustrating as well, but for different reasons. The educational system in this country really sucks in a big, big way! It's all about the school making as much $$$$$$ as possible. But those administrators don't really care about their teachers, and they care even less about their students. It's pathetic. We need to just wake up and realize that a college education isn't for everyone. We're told it is, but that's only because these schools want EVERYONE'S MONEY, and that's why these schools want us to believe that college is for everyone. The more people who go to college, the more money these colleges can get and the more raises the administrators can give themselves! What a scam! A big time, major American scam, and we fell for it like a big bunch of stupid suckers. It's just wrong.
Lol. The IT person's skin color has no import in your story. Why mention it?
@@rjporter1245 Was this a reply to something I wrote? Well, anyhow I don't see why people should not mention gender, race, religion or other details. If a cop asks me, "Who hit your car?" should I reply with, "Oh, I don't know. It was just some person!" I think the cop needs a bit more to go on than just "some person"! Asian female or White male or elderly Native American woman or...something! These days "some person" is very politically correct and non-offensive, but my god, it's so vague and just plain stupid. What is so terrible about identifying someone's characteristics when reporting a story. Why is that such a bad thing to do? I'm not into "some person". It's vague and does a very poor job of painting a true picture of the situation. And if it offends someone, who cares? These days ANYTHING CAN OFFEND ANYONE. People look for excuses to be offended in today's turbulent social and political climate. I think it's all rather silly and childish.
My trade school cost 4k for a two year program. I make $105 an hour now and booked through next summer.
I've always said, if students want to protest any thing or person(s) about the high cost of education, look no further than the professors standing in front of them.
You need to see his bit about administrators. Most professors have low paid, no benefits, positions. It's the bloated administration. They change the grades of failed students and require lame classes. Good professors are drummed out or silenced.
Yet the trades are still stigmatized as being for dummies.
Yet they're more practical than most BAs, which I have.
It's not just stigma.
@@alankoslowski9473 Like Bill Maher said, You get a piece of over priced paper yet you can't change a tire. Hell, tbh, I can't do it either. yes, I have that overpriced piece of paper and it shows...
Not really, but most ppl are seeing trades being phased out in the future. As tech increases a lot of these jobs and trades jobs won't be around anymore. My oldest brothers whole job is to make other jobs obsolete by creating programs and AI that can do the jobs, during covid he automated about 13-15k jobs, and he has been doing this for years. Always tells me "look into tech, medical or construction, those can't be automated as quickly right now". Sucks i know, but this is gonna be the future. my mom's bf does electrical work and home inspections, and he is already starting to automate much of his work, so he has to do less physical labor.
This entire episode is milk toast bullshit cause Maher fails to acknowledge that failed government institutions are all privately contracted out.
Big ass fucking blunder 🚩
I’ve worked in higher education for 18 years. He’s absolutely correct.
Factors that go into giving every student an “A” grade are because it makes your program look better and sometimes it can help your department get more funding (more “A” = more $$$), giving more students an “A” makes you look like you’re a better prof than you are, and the professors (or TAs in many cases) get better student assessments for giving “As” which is a huge factor in getting tenure. The whole system is B.S. Pun Intended
70% of what is learned in college is forgotten one year after graduation. People need work experience...
End up searching UA-cam for what they forgot
I forgot algebra one month after highschool.
Probably depends on the field.
That assumes it was even learned in the first place...
@@Winterstick549 Hopefully the men and women that are creating and building our bridges (and planes, and buildings, ans communication towers, and computers, and cars, and...) haven't forgotten about algebra!!!
At one time, lawyers (as an example) didn't train at university; they took their training while working in clerking positions in law offices. This was effectively similar to an apprenticeship. University is just a means of shifting the cost of education away from the employer onto the taxpayers and the prospective students.
Very interesting perspective, never thought of it that way
Still Can, nobody does 🤷🏾♂️
...while completely divorcing what they learn (if anything) from what they'll need to know for their career. For 95% of people college/university is a worthless piece of paper; certification for certification's sake. Apprenticeships, clerking, etc. are a fantastic idea that we should definitely get back to.
Same used to be true of doctors.
@@teresaarnold5357 Sure, but "doctors" also used to be barber-surgeons. I'm not arguing that EVERY field should forego schooling. In fact, even the original poster bringing up lawyers is one where some schooling is absolutely necessary in addition to the discussed clerkships.
Doctors are in fact one of the fields that still operates like this. The first 2 years of med school are actual "school," i.e. classroom-based instruction. The second 2 years are clinical rotations where the med students go to actual hospitals and observe and assist actual practicing doctors as they help patients. There are also tests after each rotation, plus cumulative licensing exams, but this is hands-on on-the-job instruction much closer to apprenticeship than college. And then on top of that, because being a doctor is such a critical, difficult job requiring so much knowledge, they then have to complete a Residency which is basically an actual apprenticeship, where they're practicing medicine, but only under the supervision of more experienced doctors. Doctors actually go through a fairly logical progression of schooling, combined schooling/testing and hands-on, and apprenticeship.
Not every field needs that though.
I have a useless college degree with no job and I have union. It's heart breaking seeing my kid with a loser job but think if he goes to college he'll end up just like me. Corrupt government allows this to happen
We need to go back to how it used to be: when interested in a particular field, a young person simply went and asked for an apprenticeship. They worked under the tutelage of someone already in the job, working their way up rank.
As a person with a B.S. degree having lived his life near the poverty line, I can honestly say there's nothing wrong with a trade school. You can always get more schooling later on, but living in poverty with a college degree and no trade skills limits your resources.
I have a BA. I'm doing OK financially, but my job doesn't require a degree. If I had to do it over again I would've pursued a more practical education.
I wish trade schools were given more credit and credence. They're so much more practical for things we actually need vs. learning how to send a rocket to the moon or finding infinity in a prolonged equation if your primary goal in life is to fix refrigeration units for a steady and always needed job.
@@JaesWasTaken Well, mathematics and technology is practical. I'm referring to fluff degrees like psychology (me), anthropology, literature, etc.
There are ample skilled-trade jobs and engineering jobs. But anthropology and archeology? Not so much.
Similar college crisis is happening in india
You know, Biden's plan also includes funding for vocational and trade schools. Also, those "woke" programmes Maher talks about are actually just a very few modules on established humanities majors. You can actually go word by word and pick apart the bs this guy is talking about.
I got a degree , but I went to an affordable school , no way I'm paying 250k for an education , hell I still know people in their 40s , still paying off college debt .
my in laws are paying off $400,000 in debt just to have the title of dr without the income to justify it
@@Monochromicornicopia Dr. in what?
I once met a woman who went to Yale Drama School, about five years after she graduated. She said that while she enjoyed her years there, financially it was the worst decision of her life and if she could go back, she would chose a more affordable course.
40's?!?!?! What, did they get some kind of forgiveness?
Cc and affordable school is way to go, git out of college with comp sci, got a job within a couple months and payed off all loans within a couple months. I think the real solution is giving a better understanding of the options and the risks and rewards of different life paths when students graduate college
You owe me an apology 101. That’s a great one! I wish I took that course.
I’m an engineer. I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree from Texas Tech. I have never used anything I learned in those 4 years in my career.
We gotta start teaching kids that its okay to go to technical/trade schools and you don't have to go a university to be successful in life. Like because you don't go to a university, you are somehow less. Not once in my ENTIRE time in high school did they promote any trade or technical schools. It was only universities.
I teach 4th grade and if I hear "college-ready" one more time I will die.
I went to college and I don’t think is what it needs to be successful, I believe the motivation and determination requires no money
The 99% of the total knowledge within the known Universe, is contained in the world wide web, and most of it is displayed in plain sight on Wikipedia, UA-cam, and a few other sites, all of which you can easily locate through Google.
If, nowadays, you feel the need to attend a University in order to acquire and possess a world class education, you deserve the exploitation you have coming.
Totally agree with Christopher. Trade schools -- and the graduates thereof -- are looked down upon by society, and that's wrong. We _need_ HVAC and refrigeration technicians, diesel engine mechanics, etc. And they make good money.
Over the last several decades, we as a society (especially upper middle class society) have put a ridiculous premium on a college education and made it seem like anything else is worthless and shameful. And of course, most of our politicans perpetuate this myth. That needs to change.
Not even trade schools. I know several mechanics who hire trade school graduates and still have to baby sit them through most projects. There is too much emphasis on institutions. Just think... a kid gets out of high school, works in a shop starting for free with an agreement to be taught, tag along and do odd jobs. As he gains knowledge (real practical knowledge) his pay can grow with that. The scam is more widespread than just university.
The comparison with Scientology is brilliant
The cost of education is as inflated as the increase in house prices.
I'm 53, got my BA degree in 92' and with 30 years in the business world my experience has been that I can tell who went to College and who didn't. If you're in that 5% with a knack for ppl, achievement etc hats off to you, but those 5 years from age 18 to 23 go by quickly so you might as well get that education if you can. It will make you more well rounded, and also proves that you can "stay the course", and with what I see from today's 20 and 30 something's ppl that have their sh together are going to be high in demand and greatly rewarded over the next 20 years!
Agreed. Although there are many worthwhile pursuits (trade school apprenticeships, military, yes traditional college might not be for everyone) - I agree with your comment 100 percent otherwise.
Most people who only work immediately after high school end up wishing they had a college degree later on in life, even if for no other reason then they would’ve had time to explore what they like to do, maybe learned some things in certain classes that prevented them from making some life mistakes (Starting a family too young, getting caught up with unhealthy relationships, Making constant lateral employment shifts, etc). Very few people I have met ever managed to save enough money made by the difference (between working full-time and working part time if in college) to really have any ROI (Return on investment) by age 22/23 anyways.
Disclaimer though: I’m in the bay area, California, with the cost of living is extraordinarily high but the cost of public college is very INEXPENSIVE comparatively (Assuming you still have a place to live either with parents or with relatives for a low-cost of course).
I think that unless you are the spoiled brats , going to school teaches you how to learn and exposes you to other people and lifestyles, which is important. I just don’t think being grifted by colleges is less painful than being grifted by politicians. There is no reason for the ridiculous price, and it shouldn’t be a place to train kids that their parents couldn’t bother with. In my profession, most of those with a degree are more capable of continuing to learn and being more adaptable, not that they are smarter or better. As always, you get out what you put in.
As a high school teacher all I can say is “A FUCKING MEN, BILL.”
Spot on.
Isn't it fun being pressured to inflate grades? To pass students who shouldn't be passed? It's what I hate most about teaching.
I'm looking to go into hs education
@@kristin1533 I quit teaching high school because I was pressured to pass kids to their own detriment to boost graduation rates. Then I was practically expected to get them accepted to college to boost college rates. I told my students to stay away from college.
@@zwcamp employers will look at your degrees now and say "you got good grades you are hired"
Do you let students know that the whole “you have to go to college” thing is a lie? People in my school who went into a trade are happier and earning far more than most who went to college and got a useless degree.
Community College is very helpful about learning meaningful tools that are hands on .
Yes, when I look at people I have been involved with hiring for technical things, the ones from community college were the best. The private "training school" students were about the worst.
I think community colleges have definitely increased in appeal to students because of there relatively low cost as compared to a 4 year university. People now go there for their first 2 years and then go to an affiliated college or university. If you get loans I think you have to start paying them back in 9 months after leaving college.
And you can get your general education credits for a lot less money.
I love community college more than I could ever love universities, and I've graduated from two universities.
Eh, wasn’t useful to me.
Well said! Higher ed. has become a very lucrative bloated racket where no one is meant to ask questions. In no way do I want to be pressed into subsidizing a system that has become rotted while at same time offering questionable value to students or to society in general.
Wow! Bill Maher and Mike Rowe both advocating the same thing! I'm impressed.
Rowe was a guest many years ago, and they mostly agreed. I'm sure you can find the clip.
I’m a conservative, and I’m old enough to remember when Bill Maher was adored by the left, and at the time I was pretty anti Bill Maher. Now.... I find more in common with Bill Maher than ever before. I find more in common with Bill Maher than I think the left does generally. I find more in common with Bill Maher than I do not in common with him. I used to get upset when I watched, but now I would consider myself a fan. I think myself and the liberal (in the classical sense) viewers of his show can agree on the following [at a minimum]: free speech, liberty, constitutionalism, live and let live, freedom to have differing views, and getting big government out of education among other things, etc. The list goes on, but I seriously have so much respect for him these days. He’s willing to say what most liberals are afraid to say due to societal pressure from far left wing progressives. It’s time rational liberals and rational conservatives started coming together and finding areas where we agree so that together we can stand against the crazy leftist ideology that is ravaging through our country at an unprecedented rate. Anyway, I’ll step off my soap box, but kudos to him and keep up the good work. 🙏🇺🇸
He’s always been saying these things for decades. His show in the 90’s was literally titled “Politically Incorrect”
I totally agree! I will never forget the despicable things he has said in the past, BUT I find more as much in agreement with him these days than disagreement.
First time I “read” him was a satirical book he wrote called “when you drive alone you drive with Bin Laden”, days after 911. I do agree with him a lot as a classic liberal, even if I’m opposed to his politics. I know he is paid to pay lip service to the progressives and democrats, and bash cons and reps the most he can. Still I absolutely adore his common sense rants. The clips about celebrities apologizing for everything (“you are Thor!”) and the one after the elections (“looting is fine but silence is violence?!!!”) we’re great!
@@neelabhchoudhary2063 that’s 100% true. No disagreement there. However, he also spent nearly half his time back then shitting on conservatives calling them all religious nuts. It could also be my biases back then were greater, granted, so I don’t want to call it such a cut and dry issue. while I agree that he’s always said things people find “offensive” while simultaneously being true, now more than ever he’s focused solely on the issues and less on hating “the other half”. But regardless of the past, I fux with it now. 🤷🏻♂️
@@stevedouglas3545 yes! Exactly. People evolve... we can’t just put them in a box and throw away the key.
I don't mind paying for trade schools and two year community colleges as long as the ones attending have passed an aptitude test. We need more tradesman and much less liberal arts certificate holders.
Yeah I feel like there should be an expanded tax funded scholarship program. To weed out anyone who doesn’t deserve a hand out. There’s lots of motivated smart people who don’t get that opportunity otherwise
New Rule - no one listen to a man with a degree from Cornel University who is against making community college free. He is a piece of crap. Biden is talking about making community college free. That is a great idea. Aptitude test? You must be kidding.
We should subsidize fields that we need
No. I shouldn’t have to pay for anyone’s “education” (more like conditioning). Young or old. Communities can educate their own children and do it cheaper and with greater oversight and transparency.
@@newagain9964 Anything paid with taxes is paid for by the community.
The more degrees a person has, the dumber they are. My experience from working around educated people.
Not everyone needs to go to college. We need people who are electricians, plumbers, welders, construction workers and yes even burger flippers at McDonald’s.
I've been a nanny for almost 15yrs. getting signed on to an agency in my recent job search was surprisingly difficult even with all my experience, additional languages (yes, plural), and international, intercultural lived knowledge. why? because more and more families want nannies with college degrees. if you didn't need a degree to have them, I shouldn't need one to raise them, ESPECIALLY when I've been a nanny longer than you've been a parent
WTF... lol these people may have college degrees but they have no common sense. God bless you!
Same problem I'm having but different vocation...I have many years of vo-tech education. In other words, I possess licenses that are REQUIRED for my field but still lose out the job to the inexperienced individual with a Basket Weaving degree.
Maybe people SHOULD have some higher education before having kids... or just dont have kids, the world's already overpopulated.
The only place I could see this being true is California or New York … smh
@@XVeganDaveGodFreeX No "maybe" about it. I can just imagine, however, the outcry in response to infringing on a person's right to breed.
As a college graduate, I have to admit I was sitting on the "free college" end of this argument. The arguments in this segment is making me rethink my position. Good on Bill to have the courage to challenge the status quo ideology, on this side of the political spectrum.
good for you, it does not make sense, especially because those colleges make their tuitions more and more expensive, having nothing more to show for it, your free college activism is something they absolutely want, because when the taxpayer pays they can charge all they want, can't they,
students have become a product, not the education itsself, and I say that as a student outside of the US
Most "free" things are very low quality. Think Medicare and public schools. The services provided would be exactly like that but in a higher education setting.
Thank you for considering an alternative point of view.
Same here.
As a graduate from European Country where we have free higher education sponsored by taxes I have some insights to what Bill said. We don't have lazy rivers, mansions or other bullshit infrastructure at campus because noone would want to pay for it from their taxes. In US as far as I understand universities have to compete for students on free market, so they selling a lot of "products" to their customers (students) to get incom going and charge them for that enormously. In my country the only product my unversity sold to me was knowledge, cuz society pays in taxes for education (not for students parties, rivers and other crazy shit). Moreover, universities are financed from two sources: state support (from taxes) and grants, which are received by scientists working at the university. The result of this is that universities don't spend money on bullshit (because they don't have to fight for customers, except only with their prestige) and they maintain a high scientific level of researchers who work there (and with it the level of experts who teach students) because otherwise they won't get funding from grants (and grants are given for merit, not for creating holiday resorts for students). And in general I feel that the American problem that Bill mentioned of "continuing education" and paying huge sums for it is a result of the fact that in the usa you have made education a business.Don't get me wrong, I'm not a socialist, but European democracies are different from American one in that we have decided which things are in the business sphere (and then they are subject to all the advantages and disadvantages of the free market) and what is not. So if you have made education a business, don't complain that universities are about the business and not real education.
Edit:
it also seems to me that the whole public discussion in the usa between democrats and republicans about which sectors should be subsidized by the state (society) is very black and white, as if the only options to choose from are only 100% capitalism or 100% communism. European democracies show that you can have a balance between socialist and capitalist solutions. Of course in the short term I'd rather have the 20% more of my paycheck that the state takes from me, but in the long term I don't have to take out a huge loan for college, or panic and sell my house when I need surgery. Most things in Europe operate on the free market, but the things we consider "essential" are subject to a social contract (everyone gives a little from themselves to finance things that otherwise require huge costs for the individual citizen: education, health care)
All while not mentioning that when the govt started guaranteeing loans to students that was the biggest reason that caused the ridiculous rise in tuition costs. Making it "free" doesn't make it cheaper, if anything it will make the costs spike again.
So I half way agree with Bill.
If something is free there is an increase in demand and an increase in demand always means higher prices, but I’m sure the regime thought of that.
That's inflation for ya.
I built a 2 room cabin, rewired a 400amp campground and have repaired various vehicles just this past year.
There's a lot of talk among the trades folks that OUR prices for labour are going to be tripled as in the shop rate was 80.00 an hour but since the college educated won't be able to wipe their own A$$es its 300.00 an hour. Thank you very much.
Plumbers, welders, mechanics,and electricians are getting rare as time goes on and the premiums are gonna go up a exponentially.
"I want people that never went to college to pay for me to go to college." Yea, that makes sense to me!
As long as college treated as a stepping stone to earn more wealth, instead of stepping stone to being actually educated and making sound and logical decisions...
I would like you to read my post above, if that is possible. In short, I have kids entering doctoral and junior year in sociology and operations research/applied math. They have both found something they love, both made a plan and carried it out, and both should be able to make a living doing something they love.
Re sound and logical decisions, definitely not universal in our species, always in short supply in the young, and ilogic and poor decisions seem to be fashionable lately.
There's more information in the 14-minute 1942 USDA film Hemp For Victory than most people learn in any history class.
We live in the 21st century yet still use a 19th century teaching system... We need to download the latest update.
@@justlisten82 Yeah, but the firmware is a mess. . . It’s a big ol’ grift. There’s value in higher education, don’t get me wrong. The problem is the system. It’s deliberately designed to prolong adolescence and keep young people out of the work force where jobs have become increasingly hard to find.
How many people graduate and never have a job in their field of study? Meanwhile, they’re six figures in debt. Doesn’t seem like a good system.
Folks I know that are doing the best financially are all in trade unions, and they ain’t paying student loans.
Still though, way higher percentage of folks who don’t go to college only understand college as a vocational leg up rather than as a place to graduate with peer discourse adversity experience, research & analysis skills, and global/intercultural experiences-all that develop abstract thinking/formal operational thinking in our citizenry. If it’s a ticket to the middle class-it’s because everyone in the middle class only wants to work with others who developed these abilities and appreciate it. And if the nation wants to subsidize this pathway for everyone, because there’s a compelling public interest in developing informed citizens, then I don’t think that’s an idea worth attacking out of hand. I thought this monologue was Bill’s most shallow and facile I’ve seen him do in 20 years.
America needs to put as much effort into apprenticeship as it does in college degrees.
Fun Fact: None of Lori Laughlin's kids failed. Which means it's harder to get into college, than it is to pass college.
"You Owe Me An Apology 101", too friggin' hilarious.
Not a big Maher fan at all - but he nailed this. Great Job.
I’m a conservative Republican and I disagree with much of what he says. However, sometimes Bill Maher just nails it.
He’s pretty reasonable and fair for a liberal. He has no issues calling out either side when it’s called for and he’s legitimately very funny.
He's been nailing it a lot lately. I think the progressives left him behind.
Same here
That's the difference between us and liberals....we will listen even when we dont like the person
Nobody file their taxes ,
wtf are they gonna do throw EVERYONE in jail!
Got a bachelor's in computer science from a public university. Tuition all paid for by the state and federal govemtwnt. Graudted debt free. I am making 130k a year as a software engineer in my 20s. I think my degree is worth it.
“Yeah, I ain’t paying for that.” Right on Bill.
Bill is rich, he doesn't want to pay taxes. The poor don't subside anything. The poor get subsidies. People who get an education earn more, and therefore pay more in taxes. So when the government gives subsidies to make education affordable it's because the government plans to be repaid from the future taxes of the higher income. The reason education is so expensive now vs in the 80's is exactly because the government stopped funding it, not because some rich alumni donated money to build a water park, because they were so happy that their education afforded them that wealth.
@@markfairbanks3533
You act as if only the rich despise paying taxes to a wasteful and corrupt government.
@@markfairbanks3533 Yes but what is a water park doing at a university? Are they not meant to be places of learning and study? The point Maher was making was if universities want water parks, then US taxpayers should not be expected foot the bill for certain people to attend and ride the lazy river!
@@helenwebster537 The $8,250,000 facility, overwhelmingly approved in an October 2006 student election, was designed and fully funded by students through an increase in student recreation fees.
Every university has sports, a gym, and other things not associated with learning. It's funny that no one complains that a university has a cafeteria, because everyone acknowledges that you need food to be successful, but add a fitness center, not paid for by taxes and suddenly it's wasteful spending.(And Bill knows this, but always disregards the facts if it gets in the way of his narrative)
@@helenwebster537 you act like this is a water park with orcas swimming around. Live in hot Texas, try to focus on studying without a cool off break, this way better then hitting the bar in cooler climates.
"You owe me an apology 101"
Lol, that one and the lazy River in Texas U…and these kids still demand “safe spaces”…😂😂😂
Does no one get this yet? "Full time" students are not counted as unemployed!
I graduated in 1985, and even then, I was required to take bulls*t courses just to get my degree!! After zooming through several advanced courses and acing them, I applied for graduation and was informed that I needed Psych 101 - the very first elementary course! - to get my degree. Made no sense as I had already advanced through to the master's level!! What a racket.
Just what young people need to hear from a guy that went to college.
"the answer isn't to make college free - it's to make college more unnecessary."
The cost of college relative to the value is already doing that.
No, it's not. The cost of college is reflected on the value it provides, as shown by the 65% increase in wealth of someone with a bachelors. College is expensive because it provides you a little stamp of approval that all the big businesses look for when hiring. Want it to be unnecessary? Make it free- why would companies hire based on a degree _anyone_ can get?
The point should be to actually get people educated, under whatever format you provide that education. The current state of education in the US is pretty deplorable. And if there should be some kind of control what universities can actually spend their tuition cash on - and it shouldn't be water parks.
@@TheRealSaintNickNorthside I'd accept making college discounted for STEM degrees, but liberal arts degrees can go drown in debt for nothing
@@Darkhorse1291 agreed somewhat. However, learning history and philosophy are important. One has to navigate from somewhere to somewhere.
@@TheRealSaintNickNorthside when you go to college, you're not paying for an education - you're paying for a CREDENTIAL... Literally, a piece of paper that is supposed to signify that you are better informed, better at critical thinking, more organized and more motivated than a non college graduate. Ask Bill Gates if that meme is even remotely accurate.
Plus - $100,000 of debt for a piece of paper? Talk about a horrendous value relative to the cost.
Put trade classes back in High schools.
I agree. Basic skills are important. Everything will fall apart if we lose basic skills.
You want them to pay people?
People in the trades are making really good $$ here in So.Cal and they have no college debt! They can actually buy a house as long as they have good credit. I make 4x what my best friend makes with her Doctorate in Psychology and I only have a Bachelors degree!
WTF is he talking about? I graduated in 2006 with a BS in computer science from Bellevue University. I returned to school in 2012 to study nursing. At no time was I going to water parks or doing anything but studying. What responsible parent would send their kid to a playground like this?
Never thought I'd hear Bill Maher channeling Mike Rowe.
“And it’s not because they got smarter”...
Twitter proves that point, ever second of every day!
i am trying to fix stupid.
It's all true and he didn't even mention the txt book scam.
Or the student loans scam
Im not from the Usa, what's that scam?
@@ghevisartor6005 a dishonest scheme.
@@ghevisartor6005 The textbook scam is that about 5 companies (if not fewer) print all the English language textbooks and sell them at exorbitant prices. A "cheap" textbook in humanities/social sciences was about $50 in the late 1990s when I was in school. They usually cost $60-80 and in STEM fields were never under $100. I wouldn't be surprised if all textbooks cost $100-200 today.
Some of them are barely used for the course. All the information in them is available elsewhere for free (or very cheap - this was true even at the dawn of the internet). Perhaps in STEM fields you may review them after the course, but in arts/ss they're bricks.
Profs insist you have to buy these textbooks - and not a used copy, it has to be that year's edition. The resellers are treated like fucking meth dealers. Universities refuse to stock used copies in their bookstores, most profs refuse to let people buy them, it has to be done secretly and furtively (I was in school before kijiji/craigslist, so it was really a pain).
Textbooks are complete scam, just another cog in the scam that universities are unless you're in a STEM field... and even then, you'd better *really* enjoy school because except computer science, no-one gets a job in STEM with just an undergrad degree.
@@davedavid427 wow incredible. Here in university is your goddamn business alone if you get a used book and it is too old (never happens) and then you dont pass the exam. You can just take notes and never buy a single book and be completely fine.
This may be the first time I disagree with Bill Maher, but I want to live in a more educated world. Breaking down fiscal barriers means that no one has an excuse to not be educated. Lets break down the system of for-profit universities praying on captive consumers. An educated country is a stong country.
*preying
And I agree 100% that a more-learned country would indeed be a freer one. That said, colleges ought to focus more on *knowledge* and less on *information* . Viz., what purpose does it serve when PhDs can recite many talking points but can't diagram a sentence, draw a blueprint, or work out a mathematical formula to save their lives?
The Republican argument that vocational-school graduates often earn more money than university graduates strikes me as overly shallow and materialistic; i.e., a rich, idiotic populace will still support pointless foreign wars, bigotry, and Balkanization more than a poor, intellectual citizenry.
Nevertheless, there's no reason why trades such as plumbing, electric works, and welding can't *complement* a decent, liberal-arts education. As the Bible clearly says in Proverbs 7:4...
"Say unto wisdom `thou art my sister,` and call understanding thy kinswoman."
I agree with you on that
@@grantorino2325 I'm currently working on my PhD in engineering, and I don't need to be able to diagram a sentence. The benefit of organized society is specialization and my job as a PhD candidate is to reach the barrier of human knowledge in one ultra specific area so that I may contribute the whole of human knowledge in some meaningful way.
People should certainly have a base level knowledge of all fields to be considered educated, but after undergrad it's time to really focus on a specific area. Nobody can be an expert on everything.
Amen so true. Our system is very broken.
The outrageous cost of college isn’t because “it’s so necessary”. It’s because federal loans are guaranteed. The schools aren’t paid by the students. They’re paid by the Feds, so the attitude is “We get our money regardless of what the student can actually afford so we don’t care if they’re overburdened by our prices after they graduate. Not our problem.” With all of the colleges and universities in this country competing for students and guaranteed loans they keep spending money, which in turn drives up the price. It’s a never ending cycle.
I wonder if maybe make it to where colleges don't get all the money from the loans until the student finishes and finds a job. That would make them cut down the bullshit degrees. It would make it to where it's in the college's best interest to make sure their graduates succeed.
@@conecrazy Or how about you make it so that it's not subsidized at all so that the vast majority of people pursuing a degree are doing it because their employer desperately needs new developers and is happy to pay the now dramatically reduced cost (thanks to no subsidies) to send one of their intelligent employees to night classes. It incentivizes greater immigration of talented folks, retention of employees, hiring from within, degrees which have a valid purpose in the world, and takes the primary financial burden off of the individual.
This also means that the average person not getting a bonus from their government actually has a chance to afford a degree if they're so inclined, but because they'll need unsubsidized loans, they'll have to be able to demonstrate to a bank both the usefulness of the degree and their aptitude. Fewer 2-year incomplete degrees, no burden on me to pay for you to take Underwater Basket-weaving classes, and forces colleges to compete on things like courseload, employability after graduation, etc.
Hey, maybe colleges will even start pushing more scholarships out to raise their pool of successful graduates, they'll spend more money improving their academics than their athletics and amenities, and they'll forced to compete in the market for students and companies sending their employees there because of actual results rather than just graduating As to soak up government money because "We have such a high graduation rate! Student success at an all-time high!"
This is what happens when you fight market forces. They fight back. The market doesn't care if you mean well or that you're trying to raise up an underclass. Action, reaction. Capitalism isn't a system design, it's an awareness that like everything else in the universe, there are immutable realities and forces at work. Socialism is like trying to fight gravity.
@@ErdTirdMans You bring up some good points. The subsidies are what are really causing this mess. Incentivizing more businesses to invest in their employees would only be a benefit all the way around. Anytime money is guaranteed it really takes away from the true spirit and purpose of that money. The problem I could see is a bit of a "brain drain" scenario where less and less Americans are educated because they can't afford it because schools wouldn't be able to drop their prices fast enough. Even just implementing some type of "happy medium" in the short-term would be an improvement, such as the government only subsidizing a certain percentage of the cost of school based on the average salary based on up-to-date market data upon graduation. For example, someone going into Accounting might make ~$50k right out of school so the Feds will only subsidize up to that amount (or hell, even less). The student foots the rest of the bill. Definitely not a perfect scenario, but given the current student loan crisis in this country it's at least a step in a better direction. Point is it would give some guidelines and restrictions for these subsidies so, to your excellent (and hilarious) example, the taxpayer isn't shelling out $200k for someone to get a degree in Underwater Basket-Weaving. It's a much easier pill to swallow if your tax dollars are going toward educating the next generation of doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, etc...
Or how about we make the universities pay for part of the tuition, and a portion of the graduate's salary goes towards paying the university back. This then would incentivize the university to make sure the graduate is successful. There is still an upfront cost that the student has to pay via loans or whatnot, but if the university pays for a portion of the tuition, it would force the university to only offer degrees that make money and it forces them to make sure the graduate is successful. Basically like how employment recruiters make their money. They find a job for a candidate and take a portion of their salary until the candidate's contract is over or they become a permanent employee. One of the problems I could see with this scenario is that it doesn't stop the universities from raising their prices even more.
Also I agree that the subsidized loans are probably the reason why we have useless degrees and astronomical tuitions.
Y
Oh Bill, you’re so close! The problem isn’t JUST universities! Where do you think the increased demand for higher-educated employees comes from? Employers. Over the years, companies have raised standards for entry level positions to the point where some fields won’t accept anything less than a Master’s degree for an entry level position. Demand is derived from raised standards and colleges take advantage of that increased demand for high-skill labor.
And you’re so far from understanding what he’s saying
It's simple supply and demand. It doesn't need "fixing".
@@MayTheSchwartzBeWithYou it does, he’s trying to say that it shouldn’t be necessary for being a supposed false stepping stone for wealth, but more for people to learn and become educated. Yes company’s have raised their standards but you have people without or college OR A HIGHSCHOOL DEGREE MAKING MORE. Yes you have people who still have more knowledge and or experience in certain fields that these people coming from college or universities that these companies would look over and rather choose the more experienced. He is trying to say that you it should not be necessary for college to be such a necessity
@@MayTheSchwartzBeWithYouYes it does need fixing as it’s just becoming greed over necessity of living
Depends. If the educational system is pumping out recipients of Masters degrees, then businesses can raise the standard. It's not because they want a person with a masters. It's because they can ask for them and get them. I'd venture to say too, it isn't that often that an entry level position requires a masters either. Yeah, some do it. But, it isn't a regular thing.
Universities are so expensive because of over inflated administrators and wasted positions
I'm a masters prepared health care professional, and I totally agree. I believe in the intrinsic value of education more than most. But in the end, you have you do what makes economic sense for you and your family. There are plenty of generally intelligent people who just don't do well in class room. There are plenty of under staffed trades that pay for your training and pay you well for working hard. Schools in my home state are offering skilled trade training in high school again, and I'm proud for those kids. Graduating high school with a marketable skill is invaluable. Go to college from there if you want, but you always have something to fall back on.
I have a degree in Education. I am appalled at the educational system.
"sysdumb"
Agreed. We need to invest more back into primary and secondary public education before we worry about post-secondary.
70% of what is learned in college is forgotten one year after graduation. People need work experience...
@@TM-jx8he Make some initiative in the K-12 system to push more STEM fields if students choose 4 yr universities. More emphasis on alternatives such as Trade schools as well.
What’s sad is the administrative bloat goes unaddressed.
There's plenty more thats bloated about the u.s. than university administrations. Have you been to the motor vehicle bureaux? Or Hartees?
Yeah I wish he had zeroed in on this a bit more. You can chart administrators overtaking professors in overall jobs, mostly doing regulatory and unnecessary stuff
And the sports programs, my god, the sports programs!!
@Real Tîme with Bill Maher Either customer support messed up or I just got Bill's phone number.
@@joeberg3317 Bill Maher just told me that there's horny singles in your area.
Bill Maher! Every video I watch if your monologues is so insightful and you hold both sides to task. Thank you so much. You are one of the few voices today that are speaking the truth about our society.
College is a total waste of time & money for more than half of the people who attend.
He's been speaking sense recently. Good for him and thanks for spreading the truth. Good job this time Bill.
Bill listens to the Darkhorse podcast with Bret Weinstein.
"Colleges are businesses..." truer words could not have been spoken.
like he cares.
Colleges are not businesses any more than high school is! All you have to do is make them free like schools and the business idea goes mostly away!
@ElfHighMage Truth. Education is about people learning things, not how much money can made from "teaching" them.
@@djn48 true. But if your choices are between the school with a water park and one that doesn't.....what 16/17 yo kid isn't gonna choose the water park.
@@bonitaapplebum0088 So you might choose the one with the water park! If the subject u want to pursue is good there, u get to the advantage of the park, if not, u'll end up with a degree u won't know what to do with!! If colleges were like schools, they wouldn't be building water parks to attract tuition payers!! Education should not be driven by the profit motive!
I am a nurse and I estimate that, at best, only 30-40% of what I learned in college was even remotely relevant to the competent performance of my job.
no one wants a doctor without a degree operating on them
A goodly portion of the problem started in the 60's with military deferment for college students. Then employers piled on with mostly hiring college grads because given a choice between a graduate and a non graduate, you take the graduate because, you know, they've got a "higher education". Now college wants to charge you for the income you could potentially make(if you complete the course, doesn't make a difference to them one way or the other if you don't, they've gotten their money) twenty years down the line. Oh, and talk to any 2008 college grad and ask them how much better off they are, when nobody was hiring, what that degree did for them. Those kids took an extra ten years just to get where they would have been if the economy hadn't tanked. And the hard times of that era are going to be a cakewalk compared to the bad times that is starting to rear its ugly head here in the near future. But the most shocking thing I've learned was the arts and science grads of the eighties found out that not everyone could be a sculptor or latin professor, or whatever and still had to get a job as a plumber, or electrician or auto mechanic. Either that and double down and get a degree in a practical field of endeavor.
Bill seems annoyed when the crowd claps and also annoyed when they don't clap.
This new rule is insulting his audience.
Yeah Jay. I 've followed Bill from his first appearance on Johnny Carson to now and I've seen him go from a brilliantly funny iconoclast to an old curmudgeon soured on life.
You no more & more he sounds like an upset grand dad!! Yes things weth some college are a joke, but is he saying speech therapist & social workers lawyers don’t need a master degree!! And at the same you can have place to get training for mechanic, plumbers., not nesessatly college!! And if course there ppl thet don’t go to college an that is great !!! One thing he’s write tho, some college is maid to throw into super loans!! But he’s just complain not real solving the problem, and for being funny he sounds more like angry grand dad!! Ever since he’s Stan Lee AINT shit, I was like wow your a narcissist homeboy!! Stan Lee is a legend and thet lives on, these guy will be forgotten, let John Oliver take ova, a lot more fun !!!
He just needs a BJ
Yup, when he hits, he's always looking down at his desk as if , "Hurry up, stop clapping, I know I'm funny, I got other jokes to read"
"College cost doubles every 9 years...4 times than the rate of inflation...and no one knows how to change a tire"...wow
Government helped make college expensive. By offering loans that we can't go bankrupt off and grants.
Imaging if you own a restaurant in which you charge 5$ a meal. Now the gov. Steps in and says everyone should eat, here are loans. You know people will have the money so you raise the meal to 15$.
Or we regulate the cost of college to be consistent with the rate of inflation. I’m all for continuing education. But to charge what they do is insane.
Also they are actively increasing the number of classes required to get a degree
@@noahbutler9180 aint that something? Its like you have to spend more money and more of your life towards a degree....not even guaranteed a job.
@@BBT609 yeah I have to take 3 art classes to get a business analytics degree its so stupid
With the internet now all education should be free.
All knowledge available to anyone.
We are almost there.
I thought that with online college catching one, especially during the pandemic, that tuition would plummet and room & board become unnecessary. Yet somehow colleges have managed to charge the same for online.
It depends on the school and program administrators. I just started a Master degree in Finance at University of Nebraska (online). The tuition is $650 per credit for in-state and out-of-state students (I am in the latter), and this was an increase from $630 per credit from before the pandemic. The tuition is significantly cheaper than other online Master in Finance degrees (a bunch of them are well over $1,000 per credit). All of these programs require at least 30 credits to graduate. If I manage to finish this degree, it will likely cost me a little over $20K when including books and assuming the tuition stays the same.
The fact that finance experts put together the program that I am in for a relatively low cost makes me feel good that I chose University of Nebraska. The drawback is that a lot of the courses are only available at a specific time in the school year, which helps to explain how they kept the costs down.
Actually, they've added a new fee called the "what the f are you gonna do about it?" fee.
Spot on Bill. I never went to college and they thought of me “stupid”- well six figures ain’t stupid 😂!!!
People have been saying this for years. In the United States a collage degree is the most over rated piece of paper imaginable.
That's why I went straight STEM. I figured, if I'm forced to pay this exorbitant sum then I damn well better be trained in things employers want after I get out. The tuition was very high but at least it paid off in my career which also pays a ton.
College in my opinion should be for strictly for STEM like programs that actually benefit mankind not some SJW feel good programs. Everything else should be regulated to trade schools.
@@joeclaridy i do not fully agree. the problem with the world is not that it has psychologists and artists and philosophers and others. The problem is that there are TOO MANY of them because people are taking those majors because they are easy.
"College", not collage. It's not about the paper. It's about what you learn and what you can do with it IRL.
@@zunipus Mea Culpa for the typo. I hope you understand the underlying message.
When I was a grad student - and later as a post-doc - my colleagues (professors, grad students, research fellows, etc.) and I were always happy when the regular school year ended. Our beloved university could return to being a research institute and not an oversized day-care service.
Instead of debating the value of college we should be talking about how to make it less of a financial scam and not let them continue to keep it a financial scam while also getting tax dollars to pay for the scam.
Why blame education instead of the cost of education?
Because a lot of the classes are useless and the grades are inflated
The content and the price are tied together.
Education is stupidly expensive
@@Max-bi8fnOk STEM lord
@X X says the millionaire comedian
Something a lot of people neglect is the availability of STEM information publicly available for study. We have all the freedom in the world to become smarter, yet most Americans outwardly refuse in favor of useless educations based entirely around confirmation bias and feelings.
I’d probably be homeless without my Engineering degrees.
Ticket to
“Upper” middle class?
That’s quite
optimistic
All degrees are not all 'E-tickets'.
I have a liberal arts degree, but I assure you I focussed on becoming a sought professional during college and added a biz masters's later to stop the fake chiding from pretender business gurus.
Yeah, when he said that I was like, umm ok...still working class!
@@hayleyferguson3346 I think he implied to say that’s the seles pitch colleges tells you to get to sign up for one of their programs.
Ever notice in those college brochures and propaganda when they say “a brighter future” or “to a rewarding career in the ______ field!”
Over promises and under delivering
STEM degree is a ticket there, but America doesn’t produce enough.
@@BraveFencer yes I understood the sales pitch. The reality is obviously much different, hence my statement 🙂