Vintage Jensen Speakers IS the TWEED SOUND!
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- Опубліковано 7 тра 2023
- Vintage Jensen speakers from the 1950s and 60s is the absolute holy grail of guitar tone and any amp you use them with instantly sounds like a Tweed amp. In this video I play three different vintage models; 1960 P12N, 1963 C12Q and 1972 LMI-125. I'm using a 1967 Fender Bassman amp and a 2021 Fender Telecaster Custom Shop 60 Relic
When I was a teenager (1970s) Jensen was known in the USA mainly for its 6x9” coaxial car speakers. They were The Ones To Have if you wanted to be “with it.” ☺️
Cool! I’m gonna Google those!
Had ‘em!
Thanks Johan, these videos are great. appreciate your time to put this together!
Thanks Paul! Glad you like them
Man I love your videos. The collected work you have done documenting classic amps is a time capsule for future generations to help them understand what made those tones so great. You are an encyclopedia of tone Johan. I have really enjoyed all your work. Another great video, man!
Sounding great as usual. So many sounds of vintage rock in your demo. Hope you're having a great day. God bless and rock on 🎸😎
Thanks J, have a great day you too!
Love your intro talking and thoughts! Of course now that will become the topic of my comment! 😅😅 started smiling with you when you made that BOLD statement!
I to feel the speaker is the most important, that lmi 125 has the same tone as the others as well!
Thanks glad to hear it!
Some beautiful sounds. Love the sound of old Jensens.
Thanks!
Hi Johan!
That was a big mix of sound. I must listen it alone in the headphones, but the sound was just unreal! Great video! See you!
S
Thanks man, really good to hear that!
Love all your Fender reviews :D They always sound like records to me.
Thanks Roland, really good to hear that!
Just brilliant video Johan, thanks! They are all great, but the P12N is really special. Would love to hear it with an overdriven LP.
Thanks Eddie! That will be coming up soon!
@@JohanSegeborn yay!!!!!
Reminds me the Led Zeppelin clean tone. Heartwarming and melancholic tone.
Glad to hear it! Thanks
What a nice tele and amp sound.
And i must say... love your place too.😄
Thanks, glad to hear that!
Those P12N’s really are quite special. Nice find Johan!
Thanks Jeff!
What a great clip! 👍👍 I love the P12N!
Thanks Daniel! Glad you like it!
Man I love your videos. Always talking about very interesting and complex things and understanding a sound creation. Great job as always.
Once again I have to mention how good your new Custom shop Telecaster sounds. You really have picked one of the great one.
Now to Jensen Speakers and this selection.
Or even better lets talk first about complete speaker (as in speaker unit and cabinet it self) and acoustic engineering.
Most of the real engineering advances happened long time ago. People use to know things and were experimenting with stuff that they didn't know learning new stuff. Calculating speaker cabinet was science and not just some computer program that spits out box size and needed panel sizes. Cabinets development stayed same for long time until PA expert have started making progress with bandpasses and horns and such. But classic speaker designs stayed same for a long time.
I would argue that light weight pine cabinets with the floating baffle board are as guilty for the Tweed sound as much as Jensen alnico speakers. And I would argue that those two things together are very responsible for the Tweed sound it self.
For the resonance of the cabinet tweed and lacquer used to seal the tweed is also playing it's role as well.
Before I have heard first of those Tweed cabinets, in form of the Deluxe 5E3, I have had 0 clue how were they constructed.
If someone told me that baffle was floating and that cabinet was made out of solid wood I would say that must sound bad and there should be no lows when speaker baffle is floating. I thought floating would cancel out movement of the speakers membrane and lower the level of the low frequencies. Add to it the open back and everything is possible.
And in real life this concept of the cabinets is actually boosting low frequencies. Mind officially blown. Why? Well imagine tuning floating of the board with partially venting sound pressure on the back side. All air in the cabinet and opening on the back acts like a weight on the spring partially slowing the air down. What comes out is not out of the phase and it is not reducing the low frequencies as this slow down is sort of turning the phase and boosts the low end. That is open back cabinet. Add to that already hard calculation floating baffle board.
Head start to hurt just thinking of how to calculate that. Mathematics of that is more complex than Mesa Thiele cab.
Now to Jensen speakers and especially about once you have shown us. Thanks for that BTW.
What I hear is what I was expecting. As always it is recorded superb. It retains as much as possible of the speakers character despite the UA-cam compression and all. But you are recording professional for so long.
This video opened my eyes regarding to sound Leslie speakers that use to use Jensen speakers.
This AO version of P12N does not sound like P12N found in the guitar cabinets. I think I know why. That C12Q sounds like what I would expect from P12R, P12N and P12Q.
All those mentioned P series Alnico speakers share same speaker basket. All were used in guitar cabinets. Way the speaker basket was stamped out makes all the difference in the sound between AO P12N and "normal" P12N. Way the basket is stamped out creates obstruction to free movement of the membrane in lower spectrum and creates some reflections in middle and higher spectrum. AO P12N sounds just "more" free. More HiFi. Not necessary better or worse but different. I am loving it, personally. Not a perfect choice to replicate old Tweed sound but definitely in the Family and definitely great speaker option.
I dare to say that that specific chime and EQ balance of the P series also happens because of the basket design.
AO P12N sounds fuller and rounder and more balanced to me. It sounds more as something that you need in the organ speaker anyways.
While in the guitar speakers you live from middle part of the spectrum and unique middle spectrum is a great thing. Those reflections and way the membrane has to breath true those smaller openings results in sound as it is. Great and very specific sound. Very traditional sound to. Different EQ characteristic definitely.
While AO P12N is just finished development of the speaker to reach it's full potential as full range speaker. That is what I conclude from this.
This speaker basket obstruction as seen is the P series and here in the C12Q reminds me on the people with masks on. It is simply harder to breath and do high power stuff. In speakers cases it just rolls off some low end efficiency.
Thanks! Great feedback. I’m gonna take a look the floating vs fixed baffle aspect. P12N and AO P12N has the same shape baskets though with the big holes. Cheers!
@@JohanSegeborn Thank you! Yeah those two speaker baskets might same shape an size but openings make them very different. It is like back side of a cabinet. Those two flat parts going across reflect some of the sound waves back to the membrane. Combined surface of the opening is smaller making it harder to move the air backwards. I even think that, that "imperfection" in the design, is giving it that very specific and nice tone I like. Those reflections, especially in cabinets them self, do not sound good always to me. In some cases slanted cabinets with no parallel back and baffle boards kill to much of a bottom end and with some speakers sound bit to middle heavy to me. But if paired with scooped speakers can be awesome too. Matter of speakers and cabinets and personal taste is so complex that only testing it your self is the key to a good tone. Thankfully we got you so we do not need to test everything our self :)
BTW If you can try out Hempback. I've got the 8 Ohm version and I love it.
That AO P12N sounds amazing though. If I ever see one I am going to snatch it :)
The C12Q sound really good articulate bringing out the best of the Telecaster LMI -125 have a lot lower frequency Great playing.
Love the old Jensens myself (that's why I've stockpiled as many as I have), but I've come across Utahs that were surprisingly good as well. Still searching for some Heppners after you clued us all in...
Hi Johan!
I really appreciate your love for Jensen Tones you show lately.
It's funny, because I was all about Pulsonic Celestions for years. Then about two years ago or so, I started experimenting more with 'Americans' and over time I really fell in love with their different voicing.
Now, that all starts over again, hunting for good tone, you start featuring Jensen.
It's a great luck, Jensen put out really great RIs - but they need plenty time to get broken in. After that, they're great.
This certain mixture of rawness and airyness of the good Jensens is spectacular and really something on its own
That’s well put “airiness and rawness”
The Jensen RIs have nothing to do with the old ones beside name
@@mohamedtlass3842 that's not true.
They just don't aim for the sound of Speakers that have 60ys of abuse on there cone-milage, like most of the others do. They did their best to nail the sound of a brand new one six decades ago.
Most people probably wouldn't have liked Jensens back then right out of the box.
That's a reason Victoria Amps opted for RIs over other options.
@@mohamedtlass3842 why do you say this? I love the new Jensens, old Jensens are delicate and unstable, but when working, they do sound good. The new ones sound just as good once you play them and loosen them up. Some of their new models are far better than the vintage ones, in my opinion, just different, more powerful, very impressive.
@@HamzaVLOGs everyone’s ears different, my experience has been opposite, but I’ve also maybe gotten better examples of vintage ones
Oh God! That is pure killer tone.
Thanks, really good to hear that!
Hey Johan, great video! I'd also really love to see you do a video on the Super Reverb reissue from Fender, those amps sound killer and I'm sure you'd do something great with them.
Thanks Aidan! Yeah the entire ‘65 Reissue series are great amps
Happy to se the P12N I sold you come to great use!
Good to hear the bassman again!
Glad to hear that. I’m gonna use it a lot in videos to come
This is great, Johan. Sorry I'm so late in watching it. They all sound great, and as usual, your playing is lovely. To my ear, the P12N sounds the sweetest and most articulate. It seems to have the fullest voice, to me. I've got a Weber "copy" in my Kendrick tweed Pro, and it's exactly how I want my tweed amp to sound. The C12Q was lovely as well. A bit flatter sounding to me, almost like the tone pot was rolled off on your Telecaster, in a good way. There is unmistakeable beauty in the way the chords 'bark' and it really makes sense why people love these in their black panel fenders. The Vibranto is a revelation - it's a real cross between the P and the C sounds... a little flatter than the AlNiCo, but more detailed than the C12Q. Verrrrrry interesting.
Thanks for this comparison. Reeally enjoyable!
All I can say is tone obsession, once again thanks brah!
Thanks Shawn!
great audio and playing!
Thanks, glad to hear it!
Thank you Johan, I wish you were close to me in Fort Worth TX so I can show you my 1972 50 watt Marshall head.
Cool! 71-73 Marshalls are my favourites
The P12N and LMI-125 sound great! I love the thump of a higher power speaker. It would be really interesting to test your hypothesis by putting a plexi through the Jensens and a Bassman through some vintage Greenbacks and compare the results!
Thanks Mark! That will be coming up!
alnico speakers are great.
the b-roll is really cool, too... what a place to live!
Thanks Christopher! Glad you like the sceneries
I have a vox A/C15 - I have a Jensen P12R P12Q & C12Q, C12PS C12N C12R, .and not sure which speaker to use, the LMI-125 sound, is so wonderful. That is a magical speaker for sure. I'm blown away!! Thank you Johan !!!!! I've enjoyed your videos for years.Wish I knew how to contact you. I have so so so many questions. Joe in Los Angeles.
what a great sound!
Thanks, glad you like it!
great vid, i love my 66 c12Q but it has to be used in the right amp situation, they used them in deluxe reverbs and hat is how i use it a dr clone and it is just perfect, just come at it with to much power and high gain as it is not the ''flavor'' for that but r&b blues americana stuff and it is crystal chimey goodness! thanks for all your vids they are great info
Damn those sound really nice! 🤩 Might be worth a comparison with modern Jensen reissues...
Thanks Sebastian! I’m gonna do that!
@@JohanSegeborn That would be really cool! Oh and really good video, listening for 6th time in a row now... 👌
I had an original ‘60s Jensen P12N In my Bandmaster Tonering cabinet, which I unfortunately blew. I purchased the newer Jensen P12N Reissue, but it sounded like shill, icy and stiff (long after breaks-in) compared to the original and changed it out for a different speaker all together.
I will try and get the original reconed..
I love the Jensen sound. I don't know why I kept Celestions in cabs except my Fane Axiom replica From Weber. I need to put a pair of Jensen against the new Fane speakers or Fane Axiom to narrow down my favorites.
I just last week got two 1958 Jensen P10Q speakers. When a picker i know where i get lots of my vintage tube gear finds. Besides the 2 speakers i got a 6L6 push pull amp with Phillips ECG STR387 tubes, with a 5u4 and 6sn7 phase inverter. The preamp had 6-1958 RCA 12AX7's. I was debating on selling those Jensen speakers because they go for a lot of money but maybe I should build a Tweed Super out of this chassis and construct a cabinet with the dimensions of a Tweed Super. It would basically be all there except the wood and tweed cover.
I have two Jensens both from Bell and Howell cabinets from the early fifties P12P and a Philips / Norelco 9762/5 from the year 55, they are like good aged wine nothing sounds like them to me, greetings
They sound lovely here. I have a Gibson 2x12 with some in, i dont know which model. I havent recorded it yet but its mega bright in the room.
Thanks! Yeah these are really bright speakers
Great speaker I have used these in the past. Surprisingly the Jenson MOD speakers sound great in tweed amps. Great price and just as articulated. Cheers from Hawaii!
Hi Darrell! Thanks, I actually have a mod 12-50. I’m gonna try it with this setup!
@@JohanSegeborn great aloha
The MOD series has a nice woody punch when connected properly, but they lack something that the alnico are able to do better: detail and breakup. The MOD are very cohesive at low volume, but then when the player wants to go a little louder and get blooming tone when digging in, the MOD isn't as sensitive. It takes more effort to make it overdrive, and that's a completely different soul that an alnico in a tweed is about, which is effortless in comparison. A great combo for a 2 speaker cab is a MOD along with a vintage Jensen alnico since they both have nice advantages that work well together.
@@ChonkTek I would agree but they are a great low cost altinitive.
The thing that is nice is they sound broken in right out of the box.
the first progression sounds a lot like the outro to 'sir psycho sexy' off of blood sugar sex magik... one of my favorite john frusciante... well, ANYthings. very nice.
as usual, it sounds great and is VERY useful for narrowing down the tone in my head.
thanks, and cheers!
Thanks, yeah I love John Frusciante. Cheers!
Was that the outro to Sir Psycho Sexy by RHCP that you played there? Nice video and nice playing as always! I'm a proud owner of a mint condition 1960 Bassman with the original Jensen speakers intact and all I can say is the speakers are definitely integral to the Tweed tone.
Thanks! Yeah, that’s perhaps the greatest Strat riff of all time
P12N is my fave. Definition of "bell like" tones. But there are no dogs in this group, and that high power ceramic is way better than expected, as you said. Maybe an ideal speaker for a pushed BF/SF Twin
Thanks! Glad to hear it
sr sorry for the interruption, but i have the same speaker concert vibranto and i wonder if you ever recon the speaker
love the tone of the jensens :D
Thanks! :-)
its just a consultance mainly for the diameter of the voice coil
Love the mid scoop on the c12q but thin, and nice.
Love the mid scoop on the lmi-125 but thinner and broke more than the c12q, and still nice.
Love the mid scoop and balanced tone on the p12n, but broke more than other two making it more mooshie weak but still good.
All sounded good in certain passages of the playing, which leads me to say, majority of the music listeners will not care of the subtle nuances and details, just so it doesn’t hurt ppls ears and wear out the listener.
Overall I think I would like to have the p12n in a 4/12 cab with a light weight hot pickup strat, 9 gauge to 50’s strings, with a Honeybee Amp head.
Or just your good ole ‘59 4/10 ltd reissue,
Or 68 drip edge super reverb,
or just a good ole blues Jr Texas red 1/12….rabbit hole ugh
Sounds so good Johan. Could you tell, how loud its in the room more or less? I assume that the Fryette is attenuation a bit. Thanks and greetz. Carsten ✌🏻
Thanks Carsten! It’s really low volume actually. Under 90dB. The Fryette is a miracle device. It sounds identical to loud playing
@@JohanSegeborn Wow, thats so awesome. Thanks very much for your Info Johan. greetz ✌🏻
I have a Jensen Concert LMI122, looks like your, same cone 3012B16W05, code C8503R (ceramic too), yours is 8504 ! Will give it a try in a 1x12 cab home made.
Cool! Yeah I think only the resonance frequency differs: 60 Hz on yours and 90 on mine
@@JohanSegeborn Thanks, I didn't know nothing about this speaker !
Thank you very much for your video, I have two questions to ask you, first I have a Fender Supersonic 60w that comes standard with a Celestion 30 vintage, would it improve even more with a Jensen P12N Alnico Vintage 8 ohm? What if I used that same Jensen on a VOX screen along with a Celestion Creamback? Could that merger work? thank you very much in advance!!
Those speakers sound great! I'd prefer them to Celestions for many uses.
Thanks! Yeah same here
WoW.. sounds so good👍.. do you always use an attenuator when you test these old speakers?
Thanks Peter! Im recording at my flat so I need to use the attenuator.
@@JohanSegeborn how much do you think the attenuator affects the sound?
Hey Johan, great video! Those Jensens are great. I was wondering.. Have you tried the Mojotone Greyhound? I'm wondering your thoughts on it. Thank you!
Thanks! I have, it’s a killer speaker!
@@JohanSegeborn Awesome! Any speaker you would compare it too? Similarities?
It’s in between a greenback and these speakers
Post-It noted a find.Boss G12W-8 12" Custom Wasa 2600nKr
Hi johan, do you find that vintage jensens loose the punch you talked about like with old greenbacks?
Got 2 valco-made gretsches with ceramic jensens, the tone is undeniably American...was talking with a fellow from jensen, and he said when they were setting up the original Italian reissues they bought a whole ton of old amps just for the speakers to reverse-engineer them
Interesting, they make really good reissues
Note before buying: Johan has mojo in his fingers, you may not get the same sound ;D
Thanks Edgar! That’s kind of you!
I just came to hear you say Yensens 😂🤣
Just kidding. Lovely tones Johan and very Zeppeliny, the two black ones especially but they all sounded good in their own way.
I love how vintage speakers are going for ridiculous prices now, but as you pointed out they were probably a general purpose speaker put into many things. Much like the G12 green backs where I learned that the G stands for "General Purpose". Just so happens they sound excellent as guitar speakers LOL.
Thanks Peter! Really interesting about the G!
Great video ! I've two 1965 Jensen, one is a C12N and the other is a C12NSA, did you find something about what "SA" means? Thanks!
Thanks! I have no personal experience of it but when I googled it it seems it’s got more ribs on the cone making it tighter sounding which is good since most older speakers loose that to some extent
@@JohanSegeborn thanks for your return !! I found more treble with the C12NSA than the C12N to my ears.
That p12n! :)
Cheers!
They sound great but I really feel that a blackface amp needs ceramic. C12Q got part way there. Would have been great with some tweed Fenders
johan could be interesting testing new italian jensens for comparison
That’s coming up!
I wish u would had been more consistent with the vibranto. From my understanding and research what makes them different is they have fiberglass voice coils as opposed to the paper voice coils in the standard jensens .hence why they are a higher wattage handling. There are plentiful videos on the p series and c series but very few on the vibranto series speakers .
C12Q for the win.
Thanks Kelly
Whats the difference between the p12Q, and the C12Q? I tried an amp with the P12Q and thought it sounded really nice. Since then I've been listening to a lot of comparison videos.
i like the 70's jensen
Thanks
Its still a little to scooped sounding for tweed, but maybe that is just because im seeing a blackface amp and its tricking me to saying that 😅
The flubby lower strings with uncontrolled bass is the tweed tone for me, the crisp dynamics of these speakers are insane, such detail! Very interesting!
I actually compared this 67 Blackface Bassman to a 59 Tweed Bassman through the same speakers in this video: ua-cam.com/video/67EW6bMTZZ4/v-deo.html
Actually the Tweed is more scooped
Oh wow! I'll check it out!
Blackface bassmen tend to be far less scooped then regular black face amps… totally different beast
Yep I have many vintage Jensen speakers and they are very Tweedy! Italian made beauties :)
The old ones are American made actually
@@JohanSegeborn Was it an itailan company just made in USA? Or did they change owners at some point?
I think the US Jensen company went out of business in the early 70s and the Italian company started in the 80-90s
@@JohanSegeborn I just read that on the history of Jensen! Thanks for the reply my friend I had no idea Jensen was originally American :) I always had jensens growing up and had now I know why, their made in America so they are all over here!
P12Q FTW...so delicious, gooey!
Thanks! :-)
Interesting! \m/
👍
Hello, I was wondering if someone can help me date a old 12" Celestion speaker i have. It is a Large magnet not a medium. On the cone is (102 14) and on the one of the 4 metal legs is (ME20V) (187) there is old glue on the magnet where the plastic cap used to be, but i never had the cap. It was in a year 1978 4x12 Marshall cab i bought in 1990 and this is the only odd speaker in the cab. The other 3 speakers are Blackback G12M. Many thanks
Hi, that’s a 1972 G12H30 55Hz Greenback with a Pulsonic cone. My favourite speaker for a 1x12 cab.
@@JohanSegeborn Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question. I will take great care of this speaker and put it in a 1x12 cabinet. Many thanks
yes. 😁
Help me the P12N is for bass or guitar?
Do you know how many watts the p12n is? Would one pair well with an early 68 deluxe reverb?
It’s most likely 20W. Check out the picture on this page www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/vintage-jensen-8-inch-vs-new-speakers.1899341/
Johan, you'r C12Q has an alnico bell cover - I have never seen a jensen ceramic speaker model with an alnico bell cover. Can you lift that cover up to see if it was a mislabel? That might be a P12Q not C12Q!
I have a pair of c. 1963 C12Qs with the bell covers. (They’re in an Ampeg Super Echo Twin.)
It even sounded more alnico
Hi! There were actually ceramic bell versions as David points out. It does sound like an Alnico though.
👍👍
Do you have a suggestion for a budget speaker for a tweed champ besides an original jensen 8"
The Weber speaker in the Champ reissue is great
@@JohanSegeborn really? That's surprising. Last question I've always wanted to ask you. What's your recommendation for pulsonic greenback tones for a $20-150 price range, the greenback reissue or something else?if that's your #1 alternative I would love to hear your #2
@@doc_matter it actually was. I used to own a reissue before moving onto the real thing. A lot louder though!
Thankyou guys!
Låter ju kanon, "bladigt" ljud. Kan tänka mig att det är en skön känsla att spela
Tackar! Ja det känns som att spela en acke gura nästan
P12N.sounds just like Led Zeppelins "The Rain Song" !!!! 12:00 -12:57
How dare you imply that the speakers are the major source of an amp's specific sound!
Actually, that makes perfect sense...
i think it's interesting that you pronounce it with a hard "j"
Interesting, the J of Jens and John have the same pronunciation in Swedish so I assumed the did in English as well
@@JohanSegeborn Djensen 😉
I haven't heard, personally in my own amps, a better speaker than a P12N. It/They hide nothing.
Yeah it’s GOAT to me too
Great.. but a 67 Bassman is in no way a tweed amp ? soo.. whats your point, Johan ?? wheres the TWEED ? .. Any way, ANY amp sounds best to me with Celestion Blue or Gold. THAT is the sound of rock guitar, and all those later ceramic speakers we wouldnt ever need if cobalt ore wouldnt have gotten too expensive in Congo in mid 60s.. old alnico Jensens might have been as good.. but I cant get the Italian reissues, even 15 yrs old and all worn in, to sound as good as the Celestions .. Italians may be good for pasta, though 😂
Hi Tomas! We should compare Jensen P12N vs Celestion Blue.
@@JohanSegeborn That would be great .. but the P12N is 50W.. so it would make more sense to compare it with the Gold, like apples to apples, you know