Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion Review - with Tom Vasel
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- Tom Vasel takes a look at a new Gloomhaven release that's easier to get in to!
00:00 - Introduction
02:03 - Overview
12:07 - Final Thoughts
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Thanks for the mention Tom :)
Its really you!!!
🙌🏼
My two favourite UA-camrs/channels in one place!
What is this? A crossover episode???
It's the BGGCU! (Board Game Geek Cinematic Universe...)
If they reprinted the original gloomhaven with this new format of scenario book, I will buy it again.
At the very least I would pay a premium to just buy the books separately.
Do you know if the new format scenario book will come in Frosthaven
I agree soooo much! The original Gloomhaven was just WAY too much set up for me as a solo player - never got played so I sold it. This new format - heck yes!!!
My concern is with the scale of the number of missions in Gloomhaven/Frosthaven is that printing that many scenario pages, especially with how big some of the scenarios are...would get extremely expensive. More than gloomhaven already is.
Isaac said he was planning to release a scenario book for both frosthaven and gloomhaven products. So you probably don’t have to bother buying the game again, you’ll just have to buy the books separately.
Never really wanted to put the time & money into Gloomhaven, so wasn't that interested in Frosthaven either. This one is much more appealing.
It’s pretty much meant to appeal to players like you that maybe were hesitant on OG Gloom
Im in the same boat. The money, time and space the original gloomhaven required always put me off but this feels just about right
same, but after playing the first 4 scenarios, i'm still trying to see what all the hype is about. i still haven't explored the full rules yet though, so we will see.
same. I really liked the idea of gloomhaven, but I don't have the time/space to put towards that massive package. I prefer high quality bite sized games. biggest game I have is probably Root by leder games.
@JET Snr I never played Gloomhaven but I'm considering buying it. Why didn't you like it?
Just to add something else I didn't hear Tom say in the video... another great thing about Gloomhaven's design is variable difficulty levels. If the game is too difficult or too easy, players can change the difficulty setting very easily without any extra setup, and this is in addition to the difficulty scaling the game already does by player count. Very well done.
Sort of. That is great for adjusting the difficulty of your campaign but when you start adjusting difficulty scenario by scenario it just makes it feel like you're having to fix something yourself that the designers should have balanced in the first place.
Also, the game is poorly balanced around gaining equipment. It scales monster levels based on your average level, but it doesn't take into account all the amazing gear you have. So when you have a high level party the game becomes far too easy.
@@mathjoker Would partially agree. I kinda like the difficult level system, since you can adjust the level depending on what kind of party you're running with. Scenarios can be tuned to be equally "down to the wire", regardless if your party does a fair bit of mistakes, or if you've got a bunch of long line gamers playing almost to perfection.
I'd agree with the difficulty jumps though. One thing's for sure; Gloomhaven can be taken seriously, but it can't be treated like a speedrun game. For example, "this scenario is fast with a lot of mobs, lets wipe it 9 times to stack some gold and zoom through the game. Also, class XXX must never retire, YYY should retire asap."
Having said that, I'd also agree that to an extent, the game gets gradually easier. One specific thing our party would've wanted, was boss scenarios to be the hardest of the bunch, when the contrary was true for us. I will not name any of the classes, but the power levels between some were a bit too much.
Still, I would say that Gloomhaven is such an amazing game, on top of my list & hoping the minor issues we had will be corrected for Frosthaven.
The "mini legacy" tutorial format is actually something I hope will eventually become a regular staple of new boardgames - it's so great when the game gradually introduces rules through engaging gameplay, especially if you want to teach it to someone outside the hobby.
that Andor game had one (the first act) that i always remember as an example of how to teach the game.
Space Base did that in their first expansion it was a so much fun. It's a very good way to introduce a bunch of rules slowly and make it fun at the same time.
Rahdo mentions his adoration for such systems here, advocating for them to gain widespread adoption:
ua-cam.com/video/BUjedqeFMrE/v-deo.htmlm14s
Undaunted series does this
only thing I don't like about these types of board games in general is the amount of busy work you have to do.. calculate the damage, move the tokens around, remember to add or remove the debuffs, theres that elemental power thing you have to move back and forth that you keep forgetting to do. In video games this busy work is done automatically so it's not a problem. The actual game decision (or fun part) is when you have to choose a card to play , everything else is just mundane execution of different actions.
6:39 I like how the enemy attacks have names now!
Thanks Tom! Great review. So stoked for this!
This is such a genius product. I have never been interested in committing to Gloomhaven, but the cardplay always sounded so interesting to me. I'm 100% in on this.
Issac Childres announced today through the Frosthaven kickstarter that a Scenario Book for Gloomhaven and another one for Frosthaven are now in development for an additional cost.
One of his visions for the map titles was flexibility. Being able to make custom content using the titles as bases for fan made maps.
However, in my opinion, the scenario books are one of the best additions to a game that already takes a lot of time to set up.
Great review as always Tom! Excited for a new way to onramp people into Gloomhaven!
Just finished the Gloomhaven base game with my group and getting ready to start Forgotten Circles. Looks like we'll have to give JotL a run through after that, while we wait for Frosthaven next year. Thanks Tom, for the glowing review. Makes this an easy decision.
Just got this … really looking forward to getting the family into it. Great overview, love the enthusiasm.
Many thanks for this review Tom. This (you) convinced me to try this game.
The scenario walk through guide reminds me a lot of the way Mechs vs Minions walks you through the scenarios and more complex rules. Seems very inspired by it, which is not a bad thing since MvM is my favorite game to play with new board gamers, so looking forward to this!
Great review Tom! Thank you so much
"The game holds your hand, then walks with you, then walks ten steps behind you and tells you you're doing a good job." Hilarious! I'm picking up my copy in a couple hours and I'm so excited to finally learn this behemoth of a game!
How’s the game going?
Yeah tell us Richard, you can’t just leave us hanging like this.
@@SakherWalker just finished my first scenario and man it's great. especially for the price.
Thanks Tom. I believe that this new format of introducing rules and game mechanics one step at a time through tutorial play thru's will revolutionize the board game industry and potentially bring in thousands of new gamers. Well done Cephalofair! Tom great video with lots of energy, but maybe place items on table and zoom in on them when discussing them instead of waving them in front of the camera for a few moments. A few bouts of vertigo there. Thnx.
I'll just have to rewatch this right away just because I love seeing Tom so pumped up :)
And yeah, JotL seems phenomenal. I'm happy for all who thanks to this will get the chance to dip their toes in the Gloomhaven ocean.
Just got my copy of JotL yesterday. I was put off by the daunting rulebook and setup of the original Gloomhaven. This review was the one that convinced me to get JotL. Can’t wait to delve into the Gloomhaven world!
Thx for the great vid. I though "Jaws of the Lion" was an expansion of Gloomhave ^^. Now i know correctly what this is due of your review !!! thx a lot again.
Sounds amazing. Still have to finish gloomhaven and forgotten circle
The whole review wrapped in a few seconds 14:17 -14:19 SO AWESOME!!
Quality as ever Tom. Thank you.
It's quite impressive that a developer can release essentially a tutorial that becomes a whole new way to play their beloved game. Really brilliant on Childress's part. That scenario book map is lovely, and I'm starting to wish some of my light strategy games like Undaunted: Normandy had one like it.
After 5 scenarios this game ramps up and is essentially the Gloomhaven we all know. So calling it a tutorial is doing it a disservice
@@ilqrd.6608 How many scenarios does it have? And how much replay value is there.
I don't think I'll get gloom haven due to the fiddleness and managing, but this sounds really good.
@@TheShapingSickness 25 scenarios
To be fair, Undaunted has lots of pieces on a single square.
I'm picking this up tomorrow and the form factor of this entry is very appealing given the small space we have to work with in our apartment. Really looking forward to learning this.
Love the enthusiasm!
Jaws of the lion is so fantastic. I really hope gloomhaven releases a book like jaws of the lion. It is just so easy to use and I feel like I do t want to mess with all the tiles again
Nice review, cant wait to play it!
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen this level of praise for a game! I might have to get this when it eventually goes on sale. I'll continue Gloomhaven with my friends (eventually) and get this for solo.
In the recent Kickstarter update they mentioned they'll offer a scenario book for Frosthaven for those who want it.
thank Tom! great review.
The idea of playing the scenario right on the book.... as somebody who has spent 2+ years playing this game with two different groups.... kind of blew my mind. Such a great idea. I'm not sure I would want to totally give up on those nice map tiles... but having the option of using the book would be amazing. It's such a good idea.
This was super helpful, thank you!
Thanks for this! I'm getting this game tomorrow and i'm super excited to try it. I've never played anything like it
What a review! Love it!
Super appealing! I get anxiety whenever I break out my original copy of Gloomhaven. This may be the kick I need to get me back in again.
There is one thing I like better than Tom trashing bad games: Tom's glowing reviews of great games! Thank you
well damn, you convinced me. always wanted to try gloomhaven, but seemed so daunting especially solo. this seems perfect.
I've always wanted to try Gloomhaven, but didn't really know anyone who had it. This was a no brainer for me to grab as it allows me to see if the game is for me, and it isn't as much of an investment as the original. I'm glad I was able to snag one from Target yesterday.
I have Gloomhaven and wasn't that intrigued by this one, but after this video I'll probably pick it up. I've been wanting to get a group going on the game as I've only ever played solo and this seems much better to avoid the headache I had learning all the rules with my new players!
What an insanely good review. Nice job man
I cannot wait for this one! I love Gloomhaven.
Wow looks great! Gloomhaven original scared me off as a solo experience due to setup/tear down commitment but this looks to solve that issue- maps in the scenario book is very convenient
I’m sold, and ecstatic that this game is coming out. When Gloomhaven came out I was enthralled by how the gameplay looked and wanted to play BAD, but at the end of the day Gloomhaven was such a behemoth and cost a ton that I never ended up getting it. This game is right up my alley and will be instantly getting when it comes out. I also agree that if they do a re-printing of the original Gloomhaven with the books instead of all the cardboard pieces I am sold, I think getting rid of those could really cut down on cost, size, and setup/teardown time. Exciting stuff ahead!
Thanks!
Just a quick correction. On the monster attack cards, all of the status effects take place, even if there is a null attack or no damage; they don't happen "only if the attack is successful".
Love the energy Tom 🔥
I got my copy from target this morning. Excited to try it.
Just ordered from them....should be here later this week on my birthday! :-)
My target sold out in minutes of opening
Ordered mine at 1am last night (tried just after Midnight and they weren't accepting orders then). My local Target was down to 4 copies by then and they're completely sold out in this area now.
Got my copy Saturday night right before Target closed, picked this up and Pan Am.
Had to get manager to approve sale but they did I left quick.
same!
This is the first game I've ever ordered the day it was released.
i just bought it after seeing this review so excited i never played gloomhaven thanks tom!
Subscribed. Epic review. Sold. Cheers bud🙂
Looks really good, its great that they came out with this Gloomhaven Mini of sorts. Its also great that I saw Target is gonna be carrying this, I think since its much more accessible this is great. Finally I love the new scenario book, way better than the crazy amounts of tiles in the original.
Couldn't agree more on a map book for Gloomhaven, get that petition going Tom!!
We got gloomhaven and absolutely hated how hard it was as we kept killing outselves with deck out. I hope this helps us understand wtf we were doing wrong. If not its to the sales bin with gloomhaven.
x Critical Strike x Yep... Gloomhaven is so simple that we don`t lose at all... it is a Little bit boring, so if you Are losing this definitely can help in learning!
I really think this is the game that could hook even more people. Gloomhaven's already got a pretty big name so can you imagine the new wave of people jumping in? It's just so exciting to see and I know I'm biased, my channel says it all, but I really think this is one of the most innovative dungeon crawlers we have available. Great overview of what is certainly going to be another big yet accessible game.
Holy cow that's a beautiful hat! Indy Jones!
I've been in the board game hobby for a while now. I was always interested in Gloomhaven but never had a chance to play it before buying, and the initial cost was to high for the risk of not liking the mechanics of the game. Picked this up today so now only time will tell.
Steve C What was your verdict?
What did time tell?
Honestly this checks the box for me. It slowly incorporates elements and rules and is compatible with the core game. I do recommend downloading the gloomhaven app as it makes tracking things much easier.
Lucky, here in europe I don't even know when it'll be available, not even talking about the game being translated into French... looking forward to try out the english version still !
Ca devrait être traduit et distribué par Asmodee, ils s'occupent déjà de Gloomhaven et Frosthaven donc ya pas de raison.
C'est annoncé pour octobre en Allemagne donc on peut espérer une date similaire en France.
Due for release in August. Popped up on my Asmodee preorder list this week. Will have to get some in for he webstore
Love it when a game developers and designers do a great job!
Picking it up today, loved the original, disliked forgotten circles so I’m happy this one looks good
The map book is so much better than fishing out tiles for 30 minutes. Looks so so easy
Been playing Gloomhaven with group of 3, and again with 4 for 100's of hours, and still picked this up for the characters. This game system has so much replay value. Looking forward to Frosthaven. Bring on more scenario books!
How could you stand to play it for that long? Every scenario is just tactical fights, over and over and over.
@@steelbeard151 I have a good group where the banter among each other makes it fun. We've been gaming together for the last few years. It's good for the right type of group, I would say. There's times where personal goals get in the way of playing with the team mindset, and we dog each other for it. We play every 2-3 weeks, a scenario or two at a time. I can understand if it's not everyone's thing, but I find it enjoyable.
This might be better than the original Gloomhaven just because of how easy it is to setup and play thanks to the books.
TIL Tom Vasel attaches GPS to his children.
Just his children? What about Roy?
Let's keep in mind, Isaac did not come up with the idea of having mission levels in pages of a book. Other developers did that first, such as Plaid Hat Games. All the same Jaws of the Lion looks like a lot of fun.
Issac Childress is on fire. Wow.
I can't tell if he liked it or not.
You must be new to the channel. When he doesn't like something you will know it. However, if you are being sarcastical, then well played sir!
I've wanted to play Gloomhaven but felt that it was too much of a time investment but I will be purchasing this game based on his recommendation.
13:38
Just finished the whole capaign. 24 plays, 70% win ratio, 32 hours total (3 players).
Loved gloomhaven to bits, (2nd fav game after Terraforming Mars), and loved all the bits and complexity of everything, EXCEPT that I ABSOLUTELY HATE finding tile pieces and tokens. Well part of that is solved with this! Another thing they could improve on is how clunky the hit point tracking is on the game. We bought a box of D20s to put beside each monster to keep track of the health, far better option than the current implementation. Still a great game however, and this one seems to build on the previous. Good job and thanks for the review Tom!
Sold!
Just came from Mike's Solo review. I was always really intrigued by Gloomhaven, but the high price and time needed to paly it put me off sicne I play 99% of the time solo. Now this. This looks fantastic and exactly what I want from a solo game. I love big games (my two favourites I own are Scythe and Zombicide Black Plague) but putting them on the table just for solo play is a time investment in and off itself.
But this looks like exactly what I need. Pre-Ordering the German release now. (just in case I can get somebody else to play with me)
Still haven't had a chance to get Gloomhaven to the table. Wonder if I should try this first instead?
Do it, I've got original, set up, hugeness is daunting and can limit it hitting the table.
Tom just essentially threw the original under the bus with this review....
I used to have the original Gloomhaven and I can say it's the best board game I ever play, for real!! Unfortunately, my girlfriend and my friends were not so into it like me, so I started playing alone. It was so much fun, but it takes a long time to set a new scenario, monsters, cards, etc. I sold it the last year, but I miss it every time. I will give this little guy a chance, seems it will be a little faster to set it up and finish the whole campaign.
Great review, Tom, you were on fire today!
I'm a longtime fan of Gloomhaven around 20 scenarios in with around 50 wipes. What?
I thought surely this would be a pass for me, Frosthaven was an easy skip (for now), but man, you really sold me on this one. Everything looks improved; lighter, but better. I own Stuffed Fables and know there are other games that use the Scenario Book as game board. It's clever. And the idea of pairing that with another book to support larger dungeons and obscure the campaign trail is a stroke of genious.
"Three books!? Wait a minute, nobody said anything about three books!?"
What group size and classes? That seems brutal usually after the first wipe you should have enough information but saves a lot of setup time. Maybe calculating the level difficulty wrong that's common.
@@brianflansburg8934 Thanks. There are probably several reasons for all the exhausting. I can't really point to scenario-level (or any other mistakes regarding the mechanics); I probably read the rulebook ten times and I spent a lot of time on BGG reading up on rules-clarifications and F.A.Q.'s and doing tests and quizzes to make sure I got it right.
I think one of the reasons might be that I insisted on playing on Hard difficulty. I started out solo playing a Cragheart and Tinkerer, and rather enjoyed wiping the first scenario six or seven times in a row. It took me a while to wrap my head around the card-rotation system - I'm 46 and pretty dumb so that certainly didn't help. ;)
Later, a friend joined me, and we now play as Brute and Mindthief on Normal difficulty. We never leave a chest behind thou, and going deep for an "endgame chest" can really impact survivability.
Sigh. I just wanted to play with magic. I wanted to set things ablaze. I wanted to weave spells. But 8 cards in hand? Comeon now.
The null card is not a miss. You apply all effects of the attack (such as stun, wound, etc.) but you do no damage. It's a common error propagated by incorrectly calling it a miss.
Wow!
This seems like a cool addition to solo when I cant get a group together for the original version
14:04 I 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, & 6th this... I would gladly pay $$$ for this!
So, to wrap up, would you recommend this game?
looks like more bite-sized and less intimidating version of Gloomhaven, I'm interested!
I need to find out if there’s a way to get a new board and/or new sheet of stickers so I could reset the game for the next person after I’m done
Just don’t use the stickers.
Is this any quicker than the original Gloomhaven? I’m not talking about the set up, this is obvious. I’m talking about the pace of upleveling. In Gloomhaven I needed between four or five scenarios to have enough experience to level up and this was kind of sluggish. Do we have a faster progress here?
Good Sound it says that after 5 scenarios this is like original Gloomhaven so the experience gaining is most likely exactly the same!
I notice people asking about the legacy stuff still haven't got an answer. I've played about 8-9 scenarios with a 4-person group; three of us have hit level 5 already; and as far as I can see, the legacy stuff is almost purely cosmetic. You have stickers that you put on the board to keep track of which missions you've unlocked and completed, but you could very easily track that on pen and paper. Likewise, there are the sealed "special" boxes that Tom mentioned, but breaking the seal doesn't technically affect gameplay; it's purely to protect players against spoilers. As far as I can see, the game is perfectly replayable; and if you are worried about the legacy aspects making it non-replayable, it is very, very easy to keep them intact by replacing the sealed items with proxies and tracking the missions with pen and paper.
How is the replayability for this one? Is it still a legacy game where you alter a component permanently? Do I have to buy a "reset pack" to replay it?
It's not really a legacy game. It is certainly a campaign game with one map and one sheet of stickers (but tbh, it doesn't even matter much other than guiding players through the story so if you don't want to sticker the map, use a spreadsheet in boardgamegeek). Other than that, and a checklist in one of the books (again, use the spreadsheet if you hate drawing a checkmark) everything is completely resettable. The game also includes multiple character log sheets for that too.
He likes it! Hey Mikey!
Is this worth buying used? The seals will be broken, stickers used, etc.
You're a good salesman, I'm buying the game lol!
Snap!
I wasn't sure about GH, especially as I was leaning towards MK. I looked at Hexplore It, and am on the fence with a number of aspects.
This review has really swung me to GH:JOTL. The clincher that has sealed the deal is that I can buy GH:JOTL for £40.00.
I was interested already. Now you have sold me. Gloomhaven has always intimidated me. This seems perfect for me and my group
it has different characters, i want it, now! how do i buy it?
Too bad you can’t get it in stock at any target. They only ordered 4 physical copies per store where I live.... had to order it from target online
Wish this was released BEFORE Gloomhaven.
You reckon' Tom is excited!? Wow... even if I do not like dungeon crawlers, Tom is selling this game So enthusiastically. Well done.
He's so excited he's yelling all the time. It gets tiring towards the end of the video.
I prefer playing with tiles. It's way more immersive
Seal of phenomenality ?
Isaac Childres is a monster. Super glad to hear that you liked it, Tom. I do not intend to buy it, but the man deserves all the praise in the world for this system and the way he keeps innovating it.
Well now I have to own Gloom Haven, the number one ranked board game in the entire world!
Will be interesting to see how much traction this gets in big stores from "non gamers" ... this could end up bringing a LOT more people into the hobby. Which is good :)
That gorgeous box art should do some heavy lifting.
Well since gamers are buying every copy (I'm guilty too) I'm not sure "non gamers" will see the game. Like about 3/4 of Targets in my city are sold out. In all seriousness though, I think the price point will scare off most "non gamers"
Should hopefully at least be a good way for gamers to introduce non-gamer friends and family to the hobby.
The best Variant rule is to treat Miss and Curse as -2, and x2 and Bless as just a +2. It reduces the luck factor even further.
Alright, I've watched enough of your videos already to get a sub. I realize I'm a little late to the party so I hope you guys are still active.
This is so much of a better way to set up Gloomhaven. The set up is just a bear, and it's the main impediment to me getting to play. I've still played it more than any other boardgame I've owned, but still.
How is the replay value?
Where do I sign the map-book petition?