Frosthaven vs Gloomhaven
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 гру 2022
- Tom Vasel compares Frosthaven to Gloomhaven!
Support The Dice Tower at www.dicetowerkickstarter.com
Support the channel by becoming a member!
/ @thedicetower
Subscribe to our newsletter, "The Dice Tower Digest": dicetowerdigest.com
Buy great games at www.GameNerdz.com
Check out the friendliest conventions on Earth!
Dice Tower Cruise - www.dicetowercruise.com (January 15-21, 2023)
Dice Tower West - www.dicetowerwest.com (March 8 - 12, 2023)
Dice Tower East - www.dicetowereast.com (July 5-9, 2023)
Find more reviews and videos at www.dicetower.com
Get a great game table here! www.rathskellers.com/
BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2... - Ігри
This is just too much for me. I’d find it hard to find the time, space, and commitment. Fingers crossed for Frosthaven: Claws of the Sea Lion or something!
YES PLEASE
Claws of the Bear maybe? Would be fitting for the setting
I'm a pretty casual gamer, but my friend bought Gloomhaven because it had such a high rating on BGG and he thought it sounded really interesting. Of course he needed me to play it with him. So I gave it a shot, and realized that it's actually really fun. I made him do all of the upkeep, and be the master of the rulebook. I don't think I could have figured it all out without him, but I totally understand why so many people love it now. Of course, he backed Frosthaven, and I'm excited to try it out. With a little help and patience, us lighter gamers can absolutely enjoy this type of deep game as well.
Can't wait for the pc version. Been playing through the entire campaign of gloomhaven online with friends and love it. I wouldn't ever been able to play it otherwise
Just a note Tom, i think people wanted reusable stickers in Gloomhaven to resell the game for a higher price, not to replay it themselves. When i sold my copy of Gloomhaven after i was done with it i checked the price with/without stickers and the difference was significant, at least in Sweden where i am located.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've bought GH having little hopes for a regular group, mostly with solo play in mind. The reusable stickers have already proven handy, as it's my second campaign run. For a modder, this was the best choice of a fantasy setting game, due to all the components having been released. I've made several scenarios with desert, snow and rocky lava environment tiles, suitable new obstacles and monsters. Added a caravan escort or robbing scenario type... It offers boundless freedom with custom content generation.
Thank you very much for making this video! You described every big difference very well
I am so excited for this to arrive.
Sounds amazing. Once I switched from the board game version of Gloomhaven to Steam, I can't go back...But I will definitely get Frosthaven on Steam when it eventually comes out.
Same! It's makes the scenarios so much better because all the upkeep and tedious stuff is done and just need to load the scenario
Great video. Very informative and engaging presentation. Thanks 🙂
Great video as always Tom, still waiting for my copy here in Sweden, but also pretty happy that it hasnt showed up yet, haha! Wont have time to really dive into it until february or so anyway :D
Thanks Tom. This was very helpful in regards to my future endeavors
FYI, I have come to find out that I don't really like most traditional dungeon crawlers but instead prefer the Euro-style of Gloomhaven more. A lot of folks knock it down for being a Euro, I think it's an advantage.
I think that because it has Euro elements is why it's number 1 on BGG. It's certainly my reason for rating it high.
I really like playing on Tabletop Simulator (TTS). I prefer that to tabletop or Steam. For me it merges the two. I do like the face-to-face of table play though.
Out of curiosity, which elements would be considered more Euro than other dungeon crawlers? Is it the town management stuff?
@@kevinflanagan2543 I prefer the puzzly card play and all the different choices you get to make with them, and the fact that there is nothing hinging on the luck of the dice makes it a better game for me. Yes, there is still some luck involved when flipping attack cards and whatnot, but you can also mitigate that somewhat. Honestly, I really don't like rolling dice too much.
@@freeheeler00 That makes sense, I'd not considered that side of it as well. I don't think that the card flipping is quite as thrilling as rolling the dice, but I think it is ultimately a better mechanic, especially when you get the opportunity to change things around.
Thanks for the response.
We are about 10 scenarios into Frosthaven and I'm loving it. I don't think I would recommend base gloomhaven any more. Jaws of the lion, the Gloomhaven Digital, then Frosthaven for new players.
How much space the game needs? One room?
@@jpen5599 2-4 kallax shelves if you don't have the crimson scales fan expansions. Depending on how you store things.
great review, really enjoyed the video as someone new to both games
Great vid. You had a lot to cover as Frosthaven is huge.
Since you mentioned it. Yes, I have played through Gloomhaven twice with different groups, and have started a 3rd time with my kids now. To your point though, I didn't bother with reusable stickers
I'm still waiting for my kickstarter version to show up!
Love them both - best of the best games of all time.
I haven’t played through Gloomhaven twice, but I *have* had a number of false starts. I both love and hate “legacy” games, as I am one of these weird people who want to keep their games in pristine condition, so considered several ways to do this, before I even opened my game.
My solution? I covered the Gloomhaven board with thick, clear plastic, and secured it with paper clips. I double-sleeved the character ability cards, so I could put enhancements on the inner sleeve (this has the added bonus of the enhancement not peeling off during shuffling). I scanned every sheet of stickers, and printed them out on full page sticker sheets. The original stickers are still in mint condition, in the box.
I have started fresh four times now. I did finish the game once, but realised I had played so many things wrong, I wanted to go through it again, the “right” way. My first attempt was with other players, but they lost interest, so I decided to start from scratch, playing solo, after around eight scenarios. My second attempt, I lost my characters, and where I was up to, when my app-stored game was wiped during an update - I keep a written record of each character and attempted scenario now. It is so detailed, in fact, that I am considering turning it into a novel (for myself - I have no intention of inflicting my writing on the general masses… :) ). I finished the game on my third run-through, but realised I had done so many things wrong, and made it very easy for myself. I am on my fourth run at present, having given myself enough of a break between playing, that I am still surprised by things that I did in previous playthroughs.
So, yes, some of us will play the game more than once.
I haven’t figured out how to keep Frosthaven in pristine condition yet, but suspect I will do something similar. I have received the base game, but am waiting on my add-ons (especially the card sleeves), so I won’t think about starting the game until then.
Am considering running both games at once, alternating after each scenario, but I think that way may lie madness…
Cheers,
I know you stated that frost haven is much longer due to more content, but from a scenario to scenario perspective, does it take longer for you to complete a Frosthaven scenario? Also I played numerous hours of Gloomhaven using the Gloomhaven helper app, and I know that app is no longer available for reasons we dont need to get into, but this app simplified the scenario gameplay for me. Do we know if something similarly will be developed for Frosthaven?
I found an X-haven Assistant app on Play Store, which seems to function almost the same as the Gloomhaven Helper app. It covers Gloomhaven, JotL, Frosthaven and all expansions.
Now I haven't play tested it since I only got my copy of Frosthaven yesterday, but it looks nice and incorporates monster and ally decks + loot cards.
I learned my lesson with Gloomhaven. I don't plan to use the stickers at all. I am just going to get a scratch piece of paper and update. The stickers were confusing anyways and I kind of didn't like that aspect of the game. What I learned to do later is keep a running tally of available scenarios that I hadn't played yet but were unlock (this is at most 4-5 at a time unless you never do the road scenarios). I plan to do sketch of town and just draw the buildings and have a list of completed and available scenarios for the party. This may also save on the weight of the box because I can remove the board and sticker items and store them somewhere else.
I did the same. The stickers were redundant and much easier to keep updates on paper
I've read a comment made by the company that does translations for Frosthaven for the German market. They said, it's about 500,000 words to translate. That's MASSIVE!
expected price of the german version will therefore be 400€ ...310€ for preorders
Cool hat!
do you keep all loot if you lose a scenario?
Where do I buy this game? Can't find any where!
I just photocopy the map and make my own stickers from sticker sheets (by also photocopying)... then I print 5 copies or so and put them in the box.. that lets me replay/restart 5 times and can always print more if needed. I dont use the stuff that comes with the game. I like to restart/replay because after a few years you dont remember what happened, or have new group or want to go down paths you didnt before....
Cool tie.
Heres a few things i noticed while unboxing mine(have not played it yet will edit as i wach.
The number one let down just from the punch cards alone is overlay tile variety. Almost every tile in gloomhaven was doublesided with different art on each side. Almost no tiles in frosthaven do this meaning they take up more space and it looks like more while being same amount or less. While it does make it easier to find the tiles you need i think a middle ground would have been better.
There apears to be insanly small number of standdes (edit sorry standdes is wrong word i mean the plastic part they go in theres not enough of them i think unless theres far fewer monsters in frost then in gloom)og gloomhaven did not even have enough and now theres even less?!
Gonna miss picking up gold but loot cards are ok
Also not looking forword to all the crafting its one of the things that made me almost not get it but i loved gloomhaven so im giving it a shot
There just seems to be less of a few odd things i will count things out to compare later but battle goals, personal quests, and a few other feel really small.
Sounds awesome... And I am definitely not going to get it, have fun to all who do!😄
Hey! "A person who played Gloomhaven 2 times" at the same time here! Just checking in! 😁
I played GH 2 times on tabletop and 1 time on Steam :D
Do you still repeat missions if you lose them, or is it fail forward now?
Yea you can repeat. It is not fail forward.
Im on my third playthrough of Gloomhaven (and thats just counting physical, then I also have a digital campaign going).
You touched on it but the 'escape room' parts is what worries me about Frosthaven.
The torture devices disguised as "puzzles" in Forgotten Circles were incredibly punishing. So much so it was unanimously agreed to give up. We weren't having fun and we didn't want to replay a mission that took us 3hrs to sit through AGAIN. Yes we replayed the mission and failed AGAIN. Multiple times. The game didnt help us solve its puzzle. Unless we did very specific things, which due to what characters we used or because we just got bogged down with hard to deal with enemies, we weren't allowed the time to solve the puzzle. It was unfair.
It's why we didnt back the game on Kickstarter. So far all we're hearing are these new cool things to do, which is all well and good. but what we want to know is if Frosthaven is more Forgotten Circles?
Forgotten Circles was horrible, I hope it's nothing alike!
Forgotten Circles was a slog for sure - We got through it but we certainly had to allocate much more time per session than GH to figure out the nonsense.
We're only like 3 or 4 scenarios in but there's been no similar bulls**t yet.
I actually hope there's *some* of the FC flare, but like, as an occasional thing, and ideally not on the core path so you can skip around it if it doesn't work for your group.
It's the big one!!!!!
You think Jaws of the Lion would be an okay stepping-on point? Or still too hard.
It's the mass retail version and has a great 5 scenario how-to-play guide. What better way would there be for an entirely new group to learn?
Honestly from playing gloom and jaws all the way through jaws is better than gloom. It is a smoother and more polished version with better scenarios over all. Get it, play it with a friend or two and if you like it then get frost.
Jaws is a fantastic entry point if interested. The investment and risk is low relative to GH and FH and the way the first 5 scenarios roll out the rules is really great. I highly recommend Jaws of the Lion for anyone who thinks they might enjoy GH or FH but wants to be sure before diving into the $100+ boxes. If you like Jaws, you'll love the bigger siblings and you'll be hungry to get in!
The definition of “hard” and “difficult” is tough with these games. If you consider hard the challenge that the puzzles bring in each scenario (not literal puzzles but the puzzle of trying to survive and win), they are all challenging. My game group loves challenges and wanted to play on hard when I introduced them while I suggested easy or normal. We could lose even on easy (after getting decimated on hard). The game (gloom and JOTL - I’m still waiting on my copy of Frost) is certainly challenging, but Jaws is without a doubt a smoother onboarding experience. How the games work are actually relatively straightforward in my opinion, though it can be bookkeeping intensive. I would honestly suggest either Jaws of the Lion or Gloomhaven on steam. The steam experience is pretty amazing and has for better or for worse made it very difficult to want to bring out the board game version out since I can get through like 3 scenarios online in the time of one using the physical copy. Some food for thought. If you’re not afraid of having to retry scenarios or changing up the party composition to try a new strategy , I can’t think of games you get a bigger bang for your buck. Except maybe kingdom death monster but that is a whole other beast and much less forgiving.
Edit: it’s worth mentioning the way the monster levels work (assuming Frost works similarly) it uses averages of the player levels and there is rounding on those levels. As a result, we found sometimes when your levels are on the high side before triggering the enemies to level up, it can be much easier. Similarly when you are on the low end of the level scale and have just triggered monsters going up a level, it may be worth scaling back a difficulty level because a one level difference in the games is typically quite meaningful. I wouldn’t be afraid of changing difficulty levels as you play to make it an enjoyable experience.
I played JotL first, Gloomhaven digital second. Jaws is a pretty fun short campaign experience... if you play Red Guard and Hatchet. The other two characters are quite weak and have cards that are usually too situational to be used. I would recommend the digital version of Gloomhaven over JotL if you intend to play solo or with 1 friend. There are way more scenarios, the game does all the fiddly math and A.I. for you, and the playable characters are both more varied and generally stronger. If you want to play with 2-3 other people or really want a physical game, maybe save up and get a copy of Frosthaven when they get distributed.
The issue with the game not being replayable is not just about getting value for money in terms of hours played. For some the fact it is not resellable/tradable might be a turn off for an expensive game like this. Also it just seems a bit wasteful to have such a large volume of physical content become essentially waste material without some sort of refresh pack to recycle it.
Great point!!!
They make start over packs that have all the stickers. Just dont rip up the cards and you are good to resell it or start over. But i have no clue why you want to start over. You will be burnt out after playing the full content for a while. And might want to jump to something else like folklore or hexit.
it is mostly paper though - can be physically recycled. Its at least not a heap of land waste....at least not in most countries
We played Gloomhaven a 110 times along with its expansion 4 persons over some 4 years. Each scenario taking som +/- 3 hours. That in itself is a staggering amount of playtime for its money and thereby definately not a waste - i had replaceable stickers and did reset the game before Selling it with painted Heroes. Buckle up!
@@Khelben7 Yea covid slowed us down...but same thing 4 of us and each scenario taking 2-3hrs. By the end we did fluff a bit of it rather than repeat a scenario we were so close and lost in last few rounds on.
But many years and many hours spent. very worth the cost.
Still finishing forgotten circles now with few left to do before we start FH...that just unpacking now! (Really want the insert as these baggies for the monsters is chaos)
I’ve got COVID right now. Nothing to do other than stay in bed isolated from my family. Thank you for putting out good content for me to watch as I recover. I enjoyed your take on frosthaven
How does it integrate characters from Gloomhaven and JOTL if at all?
Is it just "you can pick those character from the start" or do you unlock them like the new characters?
you cant unlock the old classes in frosthaven, so id assume u'd just bring them in
@@2n1n_ Bummer, was hoping for something that gave them the new functions like Masteries.
@@Draffut2003 They just released some information how to adopt the old classes. As far as i known that included masteries and new perks.
@@thorstenende9574 Where was this released?
@@Draffut2003 if i remember correctly i found the link on Reddit. I will look it up, just need some time.
Bannerspear is "easy"? The positioning seems like it would be difficult.
This video does me no good.. my wallet going take a hit… can I wait until retail or do I get the KS version now for lots of money? Oh the addiction is strong and Frosthaven play sounds fantastic!
Never got through Gloomhaven. It made a great first impression but got a little samey after a dozen or so encounters. Plus, it is extremely fiddly and a bear to set up and break down.
My thoughts exactly. The scenarios were all the same, so no real variety after a while. And yeah, the setup/tear down was horrid.
you are right. I don't think that our group would have played through Gloomhaven without the Gloomhaven Helper app (saves ~30 minutes per scenario by taken most anoying things into an app).
~15 scenarios our of the ~70 we player were actually good/interesting. That is only on average every 5th game.
2 times the game actually instructed us to "create a random scenario with xy parameters".
@@mitchschroeder1151 was a little easier with box insert for the setup and down. Sure the scenarios were a little similar, I agree - but if you had 2-4 people doing all different jobs, it flowed fast enough and everyone had stuff to do each week other than the 'grind' of the mission.
@@DrGathy Yeah, it was a much more enjoyable experience as a group. I played 25+ scenarios with a group and really enjoyed it. Setup wasn’t so bad because we split it up.
Then Covid hit and I tried to play solo. Terrible experience. Haha.
The reason Gloomhaven didnt hit the table as much as i wanted, was setting up games, but at least, I could set up a scenario in one go. Now this section book thing, I'm going to have to stop playing and set up more map... I'm going to end up playing even less with this.
There’s a scenario viewer app. It costs $5, but it changes your life. No books needed, all sections and treasures and info on your phone on one screen, hidden until you to to reveal. And did you also every try using a helper app for set up? It removes the need for health dials, monster trackers, monster ability cards, etc.
@@PurpleTrapezoidProds Digital junk at the table is a giant nope.
I personally feel like Frosthaven strikes a good balance between Gloomhaven's all the info is there and Forgotten Circle's the information is buried over several pages.
Frosthaven all the tiles and monsters you will need are in the scenario page and once you open a door you flip to that page in the section book and it will tell you where to place the enemies and map tiles so you won't have to go digging through the box looking for things, you can have them to the side ready to place, takes us about a minute max to place the 2-5 enemies and traps and obstacles once we open a door.
No mention of the app? I feel like both are unplayable without the app.
Depends on the person, I guess.
I played four-hand solo, with the app, which was great, until the app got updated, and I lost everything.
I am currently playing four-hand solo, no app, and having a blast… :)
Cheers,
One is orange and one is blue.
Re: Removable stickers - I know this may be difficult to believe, but some of us get rid of (sell, give away) our campaign games when we finish them. Being able to start fresh is good for that reason alone.
You need also new map, new calendars etc. Not sure that you can re setup Frosthaven as easily as Gloomhaven...
So the game has removable ones? MEaning you can put them beck to the map tiles a put the game back to its original state?
@@Mikeacerny There is a removeable sticker set available for purchase. This is what they were referring to.
After watching this and the review I don't think this sounds like a better game, if I am right or wrong I'll find out when we pick it up and play it. A bit sad that it isn't as easy to replay though.
Frosthaven is kind of a prequel to Gloomhaven. Do you recommend playing it before Gloomhaven? Or doesn't it matter?
Jaws of the Lion is a prequel.
I think your glasses came from Frosthaven.
I enjoyed Gloomhaven and was mildly optimistic about Frosthaven, but Oathsworn has murdered Gloom/Frosthaven for me.
Was hoping they'd implement the map layout style of Jaws of the Lion(spiralbound book) instead of the cumbersome having to find scenario tiles for every mission you do. Huge pass for me
I 100% agree with you! That spiral notebook was the best!
They have stayed that they have plans to do scenario books for Gloomhaven and Frosthaven but that'll probably be awhile. I believe Isaac prefers the tiles because they aren't as restrictive on the designs and he can release digital scenarios for folks to play.
I just use an accordion folder. Takes like 5s to find the correct tiles.
Yeah huge disagree. Vastly prefer tiles. Have them in a folder. Takes like two seconds and looks way better and is easier to play
Huuuuuge boxes wow, did you buy a new closet to store the games?
I dont know why, but I didnt get on with GLoomhaven. Its just the same thing over and over with some story bolted on. GO in this room, kill the things, go to another location, kill the things.. Retiring characters kept things fresh when I thought I was getting bored.. but after my second retirement... I was so done. WHat am I missing :(
You forget one thing about reusable stickers. It is the fact that after you realize that you do not like the game after 5 plays you can still sell it for basically full value at the second hand market.
About the 'stickers', while the chances of people playing Gloomhaven or Frosthaven twice is small, when people finish playing the game, they can sell the game... I tend to not sell my games, but many, many people do. I'm seeing a LOT of Gloomhaven on the secondary market, in many different states. Frosthaven being a $250+ game, I would have expected to see a LOT of in a year or two. But if the game chews up components like there is no tomorrow, then the game becomes virtually useless. While that might ensure more sales of the game, it's horrible for the people who bought it and honestly a bit wasteful of 30+ pounds of paper...
Not to mention starting with one group and then restarting with another
İ'm one of the sellers 😅 When İ'm done with scenario driven games, it goes away so İ can buy other games instead. So, these removable stickers are great.
Games should not be designed worse so someone can resell it. I rather have a better experience tbh. If reselling is a major factor, just buy a different kind of game, there are *plenty* campaign games that enable that just fine.
Frosthaven is so popular that other campaign games getting some love and play would be good anyway. Get Aeon Trespass, for example!
Sound is pretty fried
$250+ to play through a game once? No thanks. I have purchased a few games for this price over the years I have never played for lack of opponents. Pass
Hopefully the story and writing is really good, because for me the story/writing in Gloomhaven is crap, boring and replaceable. Actually I would say there is NO story in Gloomhaven.
I am curious why this is a versus. This is within the same franchise, it would be like comparing Skyrim vs Oblivion, when the majority of fans are going to play both.
Well that’s an easy one: Morrowind!
I can't stand the dual books. It was just stupidly annoying with Forgotten Circles.
Honestly who cares if you see the whole scenario?! If you're an honest player you'll ignore whatever you need to. Or use a piece of paper to cover something up.
Switching between books is just unnecessary.
The moment I listen to this compare to contrast, the more I already felt it is same game.
Yes I get it, it is more content. But for a new game to come we expect more…after Gloomhaven there were so many other good dungeon clawler game which I was once excited if there is any complete revamp of the game.
And also, jaws of the lions was so successful that I can’t even believe they went back to doing something like the original Gloomhaven…
Anyway that’s only me. I am sure tonnes of you out there would enjoy this.
Finally first viewer 😂
Wow, this sounds SO unattractive :D
There is no way I would ever be able to play that game (as a hobby gamer!)
Absolutely no interest in both games! Donno why they are so high in rankings! This is really a mad mad world LOL!
It's almost as if different people like different games.
Its not for me, but I can understand its appeal
@@lungeranon7645 Same here, I've tried Gloomhaven out three or four times both in person and on PC and it just never clicked with me or most of my friends because we didn't get into the combat system that much. But I totally get that if you actually really enjoy Gloomhaven's combat system then it has a boatload of cool content built around it.
Wow, what an insightful comment that brings so much to the conversation.
Yup, no desire here, but I'm glad it's there for those that actually play it.
Tom's rocking the Stan Marsh colors with that hat.