Lies of P has extremely minimal stun locks, no input reading and very little moments where the player is killed in 1 or 2 hits. The intricacies of the formula are all still there, however. There's a lot more that goes into why the game is an overall improvement but this is generally what made the game a lot more enjoyable for me.
@@EddieTheBunny correct me if I'm wrong, but you aren't typically ganked in the game either right? Usually enemies aren't in huge numbers unless you really run through a bunch of them and even then they de agro pretty quickly
@@Mstryke Most of the time, yup. There are groups sometimes but the game knows to not gank you with elite styled enemies. Usually ganks are fine if they're one-hit enemies and Lies of P was good with that most of the time. The Exposition is the only place I can think off the top of my head where it can be a little bit ganky in a negative way.
The director just put out a letter that amounts to "they're working on it" funnily enough, and the lack of concrete details has me less optimistic about the DLC releasing this year. Still very much looking forward to it! Also funny is I'm playing through Dark Souls II SotFS for the first time, and hearing "bullshit Anor Londo archers in DS1 and 3" sounds rich in comparison to some of the projectile enemy spam in this game... I've enjoyed most of it way more than the disaster its critics paint it as, but there are definitely some moments that go beyond the "game laughing at you" phenomenon you discuss in the video and feel more like haphazard cruelty. Interesting to see how FromSoftware has developed that comedic balance over time. I definitely think Lies of P has *some* funny traps - the terrifying joker puppet busting through walls, the hulking opera house actors in silly sailor outfits, the giant monkeys that try to headbonk you. I also feel like Gemini and the King of Riddles were *intended* to be comedic relief, but humor is hard to translate and their lines come off as unnecessary or annoying in English (I wonder how their dialogue would be received in native Korean). But I'd agree that there's an overall less sadistic and more hopeful tone. Contrasting DS2's Emerald Herald with Lies of P's Sophia it's interesting how Lies of P has an ergo explanation for all of its wild phenomena and makes our helper a key part of the narrative whereas DS2 follows dream logic when the Emerald Herald shows up in random places with little relevance to the plot. When DS2 feels incongruous enough to be labeled a black sheep, it still feels undeniably FromSoft - and it's nice to see another dev take their template and make it their own.
@@CheesecakeMilitia I had a line about the poison gank in the run-up to the rotten that I cut because I realized I didn't have a save where that area was easily accessible so I cut it. There's definitely a ton in that game. Also feel like the curseblade in shadow of the red tree were keeping that legacy alive along with the red wizard guys. And I'm ultimately glad they were at peace with not hitting that highest tier of bullshit even though I started new game plus and it reminded me of a few more ways it messes with you at the beginning (chimney sweep enemies and all the hiding enemies). Bummed the DLC is probably gonna take a bit but hopefully that means it'll be larger scale
Because it's a bit different Souls-like, i tend to call it souls-like-like. But I like it this way. It striped away the hard but annoying things (for me) from similar games, left only hard but enjoyable things. For this reason I felt like it really understands what gamers are (or at least I'm) looking for. To the point that I don't want to even use summons for boss fights, because having my ergo left at the door when I die and not having to go through half of stage again and again to try again with the boss felt respectful of my experience, so I wanted to respect the boss fights and experience them they way I thought they should be experienced. Does it even make sense?
Absolutely makes sense. Everything you described was a relief playing Lies of P. Even so, I enjoy some of those things when they're in FromSoft games. I have no intention of expressing an idea that From's ideas are synonymous with good game design, just that some of their bigger annoyances are part of that studios specific personality often for the better.
With a name like that i reckon we could call Clash: Artifacts of Chaos from 2023 a Souls-Like-Like. Perhaps even with an extra -like because of how odd and unique a beast it is. (game i can very warmly recommend, for gameplay, visuals, story-- pretty much everything. Worst thing is getting lost sometimes).
If you've ever heard of Clash: Artifacts of Chaos from 2023, i'd wonder what a video on that game from this point of view would be like. Even though as it is, it's a hard game to properly define despite other people claiming it's a soulslike. The protagonist is a pre-established character, combat is oriented around melee and martial arts, the world is not kind but not on the brink of total ruination either. There's the bonfire checkpoints, world design that loops back on itself through shortcuts, light RPG equipment and stat elements plus the healing flasks, but... i don't think it'd fit as being a "soulslike". It's a weird and special beast worthy of being more known.
@@jurtheorc8117 Oo this looks cool. Would love to check out more games that have souls elements but are more focused on being their own thing. Thanks for the rec!
Lies of p is setting in the fairy tale world, so it kinda make sense... You didn't play as a random undead, You're Pinocchio the hero of the tale. And talk about world setting compare to Bloodborne this game is less realistic more colorful feel a bit like bioshock infinite to me
@@margoman yes! Love the BioShock Infinite comparison. Especially with all the robots cheerily saying "welcome to krat" as it's all in flames. The fairy tale thing nails it also. Even in Sekiro where you play a singular skilled hero, From asks you to become as good as him with timings rather than give you some of the tools lies of P does, because it's less of a fantastical story (even if it has a lot of magic). It's fitting for both games I think.
Personally can't play games that are a certain... too depressing. And all the from software games fall into that, mostly design and color scheme. I loved loved loved Lies of P... And I'm grateful there is a game just like this.
I just read that Lies of P has no pvp and no co-op play. That’s a huge deal killer. PvP is how we activate the improvisational part of our brain, since npc’s are totally predictable and one can learn their move sets down to a T, yet people actually change things up and can provide new challenges. Can’t believe they’d not put the work in to make this game ever-new, through the improvisational unpredictability that pvp brings.
I agree something is lost from no coop, but there's an opportunities cost to getting multiplayer working that I'm glad got to where it did. I disagree with the premise that the improvisational parts of our brain aren't activated by single player games. Finite situations still can have infinite solutions and even if when you've fully gotten the game you're in a routine rather than improvising, it doesn't mean it wasn't to that point. Seems like you've realized it's not for you though
Lies of P has extremely minimal stun locks, no input reading and very little moments where the player is killed in 1 or 2 hits. The intricacies of the formula are all still there, however. There's a lot more that goes into why the game is an overall improvement but this is generally what made the game a lot more enjoyable for me.
@@EddieTheBunny correct me if I'm wrong, but you aren't typically ganked in the game either right? Usually enemies aren't in huge numbers unless you really run through a bunch of them and even then they de agro pretty quickly
@@Mstryke Most of the time, yup. There are groups sometimes but the game knows to not gank you with elite styled enemies. Usually ganks are fine if they're one-hit enemies and Lies of P was good with that most of the time. The Exposition is the only place I can think off the top of my head where it can be a little bit ganky in a negative way.
The director just put out a letter that amounts to "they're working on it" funnily enough, and the lack of concrete details has me less optimistic about the DLC releasing this year. Still very much looking forward to it!
Also funny is I'm playing through Dark Souls II SotFS for the first time, and hearing "bullshit Anor Londo archers in DS1 and 3" sounds rich in comparison to some of the projectile enemy spam in this game... I've enjoyed most of it way more than the disaster its critics paint it as, but there are definitely some moments that go beyond the "game laughing at you" phenomenon you discuss in the video and feel more like haphazard cruelty. Interesting to see how FromSoftware has developed that comedic balance over time.
I definitely think Lies of P has *some* funny traps - the terrifying joker puppet busting through walls, the hulking opera house actors in silly sailor outfits, the giant monkeys that try to headbonk you. I also feel like Gemini and the King of Riddles were *intended* to be comedic relief, but humor is hard to translate and their lines come off as unnecessary or annoying in English (I wonder how their dialogue would be received in native Korean). But I'd agree that there's an overall less sadistic and more hopeful tone. Contrasting DS2's Emerald Herald with Lies of P's Sophia it's interesting how Lies of P has an ergo explanation for all of its wild phenomena and makes our helper a key part of the narrative whereas DS2 follows dream logic when the Emerald Herald shows up in random places with little relevance to the plot. When DS2 feels incongruous enough to be labeled a black sheep, it still feels undeniably FromSoft - and it's nice to see another dev take their template and make it their own.
@@CheesecakeMilitia I had a line about the poison gank in the run-up to the rotten that I cut because I realized I didn't have a save where that area was easily accessible so I cut it. There's definitely a ton in that game. Also feel like the curseblade in shadow of the red tree were keeping that legacy alive along with the red wizard guys.
And I'm ultimately glad they were at peace with not hitting that highest tier of bullshit even though I started new game plus and it reminded me of a few more ways it messes with you at the beginning (chimney sweep enemies and all the hiding enemies). Bummed the DLC is probably gonna take a bit but hopefully that means it'll be larger scale
Because it's a bit different Souls-like, i tend to call it souls-like-like. But I like it this way. It striped away the hard but annoying things (for me) from similar games, left only hard but enjoyable things. For this reason I felt like it really understands what gamers are (or at least I'm) looking for. To the point that I don't want to even use summons for boss fights, because having my ergo left at the door when I die and not having to go through half of stage again and again to try again with the boss felt respectful of my experience, so I wanted to respect the boss fights and experience them they way I thought they should be experienced. Does it even make sense?
Absolutely makes sense. Everything you described was a relief playing Lies of P. Even so, I enjoy some of those things when they're in FromSoft games. I have no intention of expressing an idea that From's ideas are synonymous with good game design, just that some of their bigger annoyances are part of that studios specific personality often for the better.
With a name like that i reckon we could call Clash: Artifacts of Chaos from 2023 a Souls-Like-Like. Perhaps even with an extra -like because of how odd and unique a beast it is.
(game i can very warmly recommend, for gameplay, visuals, story-- pretty much everything. Worst thing is getting lost sometimes).
If you want to do that, you can take a page from the Roguelike genre and call it a Soulslite
Love it🎉
Thank god there is no poison swamps LoP. I hated those in FS games.
If you've ever heard of Clash: Artifacts of Chaos from 2023, i'd wonder what a video on that game from this point of view would be like. Even though as it is, it's a hard game to properly define despite other people claiming it's a soulslike.
The protagonist is a pre-established character, combat is oriented around melee and martial arts, the world is not kind but not on the brink of total ruination either. There's the bonfire checkpoints, world design that loops back on itself through shortcuts, light RPG equipment and stat elements plus the healing flasks, but... i don't think it'd fit as being a "soulslike". It's a weird and special beast worthy of being more known.
@@jurtheorc8117 Oo this looks cool. Would love to check out more games that have souls elements but are more focused on being their own thing. Thanks for the rec!
Lies of p is setting in the fairy tale world, so it kinda make sense...
You didn't play as a random undead, You're Pinocchio the hero of the tale. And talk about world setting compare to Bloodborne this game is less realistic more colorful feel a bit like bioshock infinite to me
@@margoman yes! Love the BioShock Infinite comparison. Especially with all the robots cheerily saying "welcome to krat" as it's all in flames.
The fairy tale thing nails it also. Even in Sekiro where you play a singular skilled hero, From asks you to become as good as him with timings rather than give you some of the tools lies of P does, because it's less of a fantastical story (even if it has a lot of magic). It's fitting for both games I think.
Personally can't play games that are a certain... too depressing. And all the from software games fall into that, mostly design and color scheme. I loved loved loved Lies of P... And I'm grateful there is a game just like this.
boss are not that strong that use to be during launch day. Hard nerfed alot.
Ah, gotcha
I just read that Lies of P has no pvp and no co-op play.
That’s a huge deal killer.
PvP is how we activate the improvisational part of our brain, since npc’s are totally predictable and one can learn their move sets down to a T, yet people actually change things up and can provide new challenges.
Can’t believe they’d not put the work in to make this game ever-new, through the improvisational unpredictability that pvp brings.
I agree something is lost from no coop, but there's an opportunities cost to getting multiplayer working that I'm glad got to where it did.
I disagree with the premise that the improvisational parts of our brain aren't activated by single player games. Finite situations still can have infinite solutions and even if when you've fully gotten the game you're in a routine rather than improvising, it doesn't mean it wasn't to that point.
Seems like you've realized it's not for you though