I imagined medieval castle and the king sends out scout - "hey, there's a cool dragon outside, check this out!". The scout wants to go outside, but his horse is going crazy, changing directions 5 times per second. And the king is like "nailed it, no holes".
+DannyECDUB It's like that time in my terrestrial vertebrates class I had to do a presentation on Parus major, or the "Great Tits" as they're commonly known. Just gotta say it and carry on
what i do is whenever i complete a wall, or at least a section, sent a villager outside the wall then lock the gate then send him somewhere in the wall, if he makes it back inside despite the locked gate thats where i find out where those invisible holes are. they happen most often when you build a wall going up a hill, or at least for me
9:02 - mine own lord! there's an emergency yond requires thy attention immediately! - what is't, mine own loyal subject? art we under attacketh?! soundeth the alarm, calleth every able man to arms! - oh, worry not, t's nothing of the sort. - so what is't? out with t already! - tis the horses! - what about them? - those gents've all did start to spasm and has't seizures! - oh not this again. Oh prince stuart! didst thee locketh all the city gates again? this prank is getting very much fusty
What are your thoughts on a mod that just flat-out tells you your starting town center is completly walled in? Nice to have...or super lame? This made me think about the Stronghold game series. RTS mixed with castle builder sim, and kill eachother's Lord (unit who sits in central Keep building). Much like Regicide gametype. So walling up is a very important task. When your wall has no more gaps, you get a sound alert "The keep is enclosed", and a notification icon on the HUD.
Funny thing for me in Stronghold (Crusader) games is that that's only RTS where I always went for mobile defense... I always try to turtle. But in a game about turtling, naaaaaaaah.
+Dmitri Shnubnekov isn't that like infecting myself with ebola because then "doctors will know what I'm sick with, so it'll be easier to treat". Aren't you better off with them always outside the wall? haha Against a computer, though, they'll definitely stream units through a gap right into your archers/onagers, so in that case it might be hilarious and strategic
+Spirit Of The Law I actually don't play that much so I'm not going off experience but the theory is that creating an artificial weak spot helps you prevent the enemy from surprising you
+Dmitri Shnubnekov "A good fort needs a gap. The enemy must be lured in, so we can attack them. If we only defend, we lose the war." - Kambei, "Seven Samurai" But I agree with Spirit Of The Law, it's only worth the risk against the computer.
+Spirit Of The Law its actually not as crazy as it sounds. i wouldn't suggest doing it every game but i will sometimes leave a hole if it is in a spot that will give me a battle advantage (especially in feudal): elevation, tower, or as a choke point if i have ranged units and my opponent has melee. sometimes all it takes is one good fight to take military advantage and dominate the game.
Noooo Spirit why would you point this out ;-; Had so many games where I abused this exploit and people would resign as soon as my army entered their base
+Freddie Mercury ha! imagine how I feel. You have no idea how many games I've lost because somebody dodges my tc arrows, saved their villagers from wolves, or beats me with something else they picked up in my videos.... :/
+Spirit Of The Law Does this mean you will start fabricating evidence?! That would be interesting. I don't even remember any fake rumors about Aok/Aoc/AoeHD anymore. Even the instant relic pickup was patched in HD.
+Freddie Mercury Yeah, my dad would make a massive arablast siege onager army, I would wipe up the onagers with hussars, but then all his arablasts would stroll in past my forest.
+Twiggi Brandyberry if you were really picky you could say that units should be able to walk through most buldings and definetely through those which are seen or likely to have multiple doors and if you were really REALLY picky you could argue that people could just break the doors and walk right in i mean loads of japanese walls were basically paper
***** well if you have a full armor consisting of leather harness with chain mail and plate mail then an arrow fired by a bow isnt gonna do any damage crossbows or arbalests tho would be able make you combat ineffective with one hit and with almost any mounted unit the animal could be killed with one shot but instead mounted units usually have more hp... at the end of the day we know its all for gameplay reasons and not for realism anyway
+Edward Nutt longbowmen were the most accurate archers in the world. so much so, if you could not hit a target on the bull 500ft away, you were cast out of the school, on your tests at 14/15. Also everyone was told by the king to learn archery not just at the archery school.
***** I got that from a documentary (What the tudors did for us, or one of those type of series by robinson (the fella from black adder, forgotten his name)). Might not be that high but they definitely got booted from the academy for longbowmen. Remember we still had short ranged archers we used against the french knights. So they weren't totally retired for a career in archery, just not elite enough for longbowmen. It was the same training we had for our later armies and navies. This is why we had the greatest empire...we had trained our men, professionally and to a higher standard than most other major empires.
I asked myself that question as well. If you got a solid wall all the way around you'll know the couple spots you may have a hole and those buildings are far less likely to be destroyed in the raid
Not only the resources, but also the time. You have to build a blacksmith, barracks, stable, houses all anyway. Making them your wall can save a few minutes of villager time that would be spent walling
Hey man I love your videos. Is there any chance you could do a video examining mangonel/onager mechanics? I've never really understood how its spread works, like whether the damage is a per shot thing or just a general area of effect and the shots are just for show.
Holy crap I LOVE this channel, just found it; watched 2 videos (and in-that have watched almost an hour of awesome content already) So well done, thanks a lot for all your effort man, maybe someday I'll watch and consume all the awesome content/info you've put here.
Haha man there's nothing worse than spending time walling up only for the enemy to just waltz through your base. Another annoying one is trying to seal off a chokepoint in a rivers map only to find the game won't let you place walls in certain spots.
When you eventually decide on making an update to this video, I hope u note down the possibility of the "empty corner" or "tower hop" when constructing walls
On a slightly related note, can anyone tell me wtf is up with the units occasionally going through walls glitch? I mean I was playing a couple matches of the original AoE2 HD against bots (cause I'm a fucking casual) and consistently the bots piled all their military against my walls (my guess is because they were trying to assault my base but somehow failed to realize the wall was there) and every now and then they just started walking RIGHT THROUGH THE SOLID, COMPLETELY SHUT GATE I had built there. There were no 1 block holes anywhere in the wall, I checked.
+RandomGuy1994 Sometimes units get shoved into trees and boats get shoved onto land tiles (similar to how units end up when you ungarrison them from a building that's walled in). That's probably the same bug.
ZortLF2 It can be really frustrating when like 4 or 5 enemies get through in quick succession and kill a couple of your villagers and some low health buildings before you manage to dispose of them because you weren't expecting the enemy to start manipulating the existence of space and time.
Lol the same happened to me once, my two handed swordsmen just phased through my opponent's gate. I think it was to do with how gates have multiple sections (the wall sections with the flags on top, and the actual gate that opens and closes). My units went in between those.
LOL yes, bcs building has more HP... never mind, building is cheaper... never mind, building is faster to build... never mind. There might actualy be a reason to make wall out of wall ...
You need the buildings anyways, so putting a wall instead of the building is wasted resources. Also for unit producing buildings, you can very easily create units outside of the wall.
It is to landgrab in this style, to not lose sheep, not get killed by a rush or lose villagers easily, not lose boar etc. It does not maximise defence, it minimises villager down time, and is the fastest way to protect yourself whilst not sacrificing eco. I am a much bigger fan of the TC and farm surround, meaning the buildings are somewhat protected later on by the tc, and the TC and villagers are a little harder to get to, but the other way is just far more practical on a lot of maps, as that is only good on pretty hemmed in maps.
Having played AoE2 for 15 years I quickly found myself wondering this problem when enemies and my own units were getting through my walls and presumed blocked paths. Trying to build over the existing wall over the distance made that quickly solved.
What I do to check for gaps is stick a villager outside the wall (if I don't think any are there), lock all the gates and tell him to get his ass inside. Then I follow him and wherever he gets in I tell him to plug up the hole :P
I wonder if these videos are for people that just bought the game (and dont know that beach is open space) or for 120actionsperminute people who are looking which faction has more pixels on their buildings...
I rarely get fooled by those illusions. I am always checking my walls while building them to make sure everything is in order. And since I don't use buildings in my wall structures, I am pretty safe from the building illusion. I guess that is my brain rejecting optical illusions (seriously, I rarely get fooled by those too).
Not per tile. Per tile even stone walls are stronger than gates. And there is a slight difference between units pouring into a 1 tile gap versus a 4 tile gaping maw of doom for the poor sod who built a wall of gates.
I never get why people build houses and buildings as walls instead of just... well... walls. What's the benefit on having your armory as a wall? You save stone? Is it worth it? I always have the feeling that if I use a building as a wall it will be the obvious weak spot and will fall against the enemy more easily, so... why?
+Sondaro S. my justification for it has always been that I'm building the houses anyway, so I have to spend the wood and build time either way. At least instead of sitting in the corner or cluttering up my town they can contribute to protecting my villagers.
Spirit Of The Law That is what I was thinking, but isn't it way easier to blow up a house instead of a wall, thus making your walls weaker than someone who completely walls the base? if someone comes with siege weapons to my front door and sees a house in the middle of the wall they can blow it up easily and pass through the immense gap. In fact, they don't even need siege. Is it really worth it? I don't know, it's been a long time since I played AoE2 but I'm very curious
if you can't react in the time it takes to down those houses you deserve to lose anyway. walls aren't there to soak damage, they're there to delay surprise attacks enough for you to get a counter going. houses are pretty adequate for that.
Hey there, Spirit Of The Law! I've been watching all of your video's about AoE2 and I just needed to say thank you for them! You blew some new life in my love towards AoE and your calculations are amazing! Keep up the good work!
Walls? *WALLSS??!* Sparta dont need walls. The spartans army is the wall. Right, men? *looks behind at the city* Ahhhh crap. Bandits raided the storehouse again. *CHARGEEEEEE*
Skip to 9:03. There, you know how to fix gaps in the wall. Just like with Rise of Rome, I know I'm supposed to cycle between houses and walls, but my OCD just won't let me do it. RIP competitive Age of Empires play.
Step1: Be goths Step2: Even if you are not goths, don't build walls, they'll just slow down your eco/military power Step3: Start rushing If you still want to have some sort of warning or chokepoints, build some palisades, almost no one bothers to destroy all of these (or all stone walls for instance, its just too many clicks), much cheaper and can still help you direct enemies where you want to fight them. IMO, stone walls are only useful on closed/semi-closed maps, to fortify some chokepoints.
I hate those gaps. Encountered one today in the third Joan of Arc mission. I thought I had walled all the shallows across the river and the land connections in the north of the map. I had wiped out everyone on my side of the river but I kept getting raided. Turned out that there was a 1 tile gap between a forest and the edge of the map in the north that I missed.
I have this mouse lagg of movement and clicking. Sometimes it doesn't even responds when I click so when I clicked for the second or third time it did work. But this really slows down my game. So what could it be? It's not my internet connection since that works always just fine (got cable) and my mouse is also with a wire. The hotkeys on keyboard are much faster and always respond so I am pretty sure it has to do something with my mouse or with steam. I have windows 7 64 bit. (btw is it worth to update to windows 10 when you have a gaming pc? For laptops with touchscreen it's great but I have doubts on it when it comes to gaming pc).
Had a spit take just yesterday. Had a solid 20ish tile wall but one end had 3 end prices in a row. Thought "strange" and moved on. Imp age comes and a 45 unit army just phase through the center end price like woooooooow
Oh shit, this never even occurred to me before. Buildings that units can traverse don't block anything. I.E. (not that you would) but if you tried using a town center as part of your wall, units can just walk through it.
I have problems with enemy walking through solid (no gap) walls built on uneven terrain and walking through closed gates. These may be bugs in programming.
+Fernando Ortiz not in aoe imagine a double fortified wall with 2 militia guarding it and a palisade with 10 paladins which wall do you think would go down first
What I do is build walls as far away from any trees as possible so that they don't block the wall. Same with buildings, all my buildings stay inside the walls. And if my economy is booming I will even build up to 2 more layers of wall with keeps and bombard towers to protect it. Sometimes if I really feel like it, I'll build castles in between my keeps and bombard towers.
videos like these are only making my descision not to play such games online even stronger. a 10 minute video, just to point out gaps in wall structures. you hardcore people make the game seem fun in vids, while equally destructive towards new players. you smash them, giving them a sower taste. they resign from trying to play online, and thats how you kill off a community.
Are you planing to do a video about garrison units in buildings that is able to shot arrows. Would like to know if there is different depending on what unit you put in a Tower, tc, castle etc. and if there change depending on the age (like if you use a simpel dark age archer or use the same unuppgraded archer but are in imperial age)
Instead of building a wall around the forest, it might be more economical to instead use walls to "trap" the villagers between the wall and the forest (with a gate if you want them to be able to enter your city proper), if just to avoid some enemies sneaking into your base unnoticed.
It's not really an optical illusion. It's more of an assumption. Why wouldn't you just drag the wall to be built past the building you're butting against?
could you make a video on Trebuchet strategy? Up til now I have only ever used them vs stationary buildings from a safe distance. But in your videos, I see them being used mid-battle against various units. This intrigues me!
If they are not in range of buildings, you might as well use them to try and kill some archers. Otherwise you're wasting the Trebuchets because they aren't doing anything
they're good if you're playing as the Britons because of splash damage, but apart from that they kinda suck against units - not accurate enough, and apart from the Japanese, their rate of fire is too slow. Spirit loves the Japanese kataparuto tech though so he probably uses them against units for the lols.
I've never had this problem, it's always pretty clear to me where to place walls and if there's any gaps, hell I rarely ever get to the point of finding gaps at all, since my walls are so well placed from the get go. I don't even like AoE2, mainly because it crashes on me a lot.
i don't use pussywood either becouse of the looks, but if i'd use it, it wasn't for better walling but for moving your villagers better to different trees when you have a lumbercamp at the top side of a tree line...
Why you would build houses barracks and whatever as a part of the wall if you would lose the soldiers/housing space and a big part of the wall if you dont do that you have only lost wall and they have to attack again the building and i know about resources but cmon why
What about the gaps in the middle of a solid wall? I have times when I am playing on fortress and enemies walk right between my wall and my gate. I believe I have seen it both with fortress generated walls and my own built walls, and both between two wall tiles and between walls and gates, but it's possibly only a problem with fortress generated walls between walls and gates, because that is mainly what I can think of seeing it happen on right now. I have tried to build walls over the holes and it does not let me, so there are no tile holes
I'm flabbergasted how you did not mention that one stone walls are built, with a gate. Another way to check a gap, is lock the gate and send a unit to the other side of the wall. If their is a gap, he will get through fast. No gap, he will go all the way around or stop at the wall.
I'm having REALLY big problems on a Michi-type map. I'm fighting a team by myself and I always find that the AI just builds castles, village centers, and unit production centers everywhere. I broke through the treeline with a mixed army of ~400 Teutonic Knights, Halberdiers, and Trebuchets and he just throws Calvary mixed with Korean War Wagons, Onegers and sometime Trebuchets. Seems anything I can use to counter kills my own units (bombard cannons, onagers, etc.).
UPDATE: I _finally_ won! I ended up digging a path through the trees and filled it with some mixed towers on the sides, some Scorpions in the middle, with some halberdiers out in front, with some archers/handcannoneers/monks in the back. When I had enough units busting though into the enemy's town I went ahead and started spamming Siege Onegers and Bombard Cannons. As soon as that civilization gave up I allied with victory as a term with the other enemy AI, and it was game over from there. I saved beforehand though, and may replay from where I allied with the other player and just wipe him out instead, just to see if I can. But my victory goes to Spirit of the Law; I learned the scorpion/halberdiers combo from one of the videos. Thank you very much Spirit, for all the content you provide!
Didn't even use a _single_ Teutonic Knight in my second playthrough where I won; I ended up having: ~800 units killed : ~500 units lost ~100 buildings razed : ~3 buildings lost
teutonic knights are terrible in mass. why would you even get so many of them? just a couple of hours ago i won a game against a hard ressonancebot and the death count was almost into the 10 thousands. seriously, i lost 5300 units and he lost 4400. it was so frustrating how i couldn't breach (and actually got pushed back most of the time because the fucker managed to mine twice as much gold as i did) with 17 military buildings spamming trash units non-stop for almost 2 hours. i think it was like 3:20 in in-game time. he had the superior composition with so fucking many 11 (or 12?) range arbalests on top of his trash, more scouts and more siege but his production in numbers wasn't far off mine. unbelievable. i only managed to win when he finally exausted his gold supply and i managed to catch a break long enough to buy gold for my own siege. getting my economy to a large enough size to maintain that was pretty hard too. i think i had 150 villagers all on wood and food just to barely cover production costs.
- SOTL: Do you think there is a gap? - Me: No. - SOTL: Actually there is. - Me: Yes. - SOTL: Do you think there is a gap between the trees and the buildings? - Me (based on the other examples): Yes. - SOTL: Probably there is none, but it's best to check... and there isn't. - Me: No.
The only way i can remember this happenig to me is because of te water, some times your enemy can walk along the border of the lake and you cannot build a wall there, so you must find a way to close it.
last time I put a wall around my whole kingdom their were enemies and u know what they did they went under the wall it was because they were mind freak but seriously it happen to me and their was no gaps
I used to lock all the gates and then tell a villager or scout to go outside wall. if it could not then that means no gap . that's how i use to test my fortification :)
i know this issue,i not a pro and i am a lazy player to check is the layers of wall cover all so i always spend stone to build double or triple layers of walls and gates so at least its more secure
and this is one reason why i try and triple up on walls also noob question here why put your bulidings in with the walls wont they die first before the wall ?
the first time I played the normal AOE games. I always build a wall.but then found out that the enemies were coming thru somehow until I learn about those gaps between buildings,shoreline,etc... now I extend the palisades or stone wall as you explained up to the trees. also the gaps happens in the cliffs & mountains too.
+CmdrSloanne yeah, those fake looking mountains in the scenarios can be brutal. The wall has to go right up to the middle of the mountain sometimes. Learned that the hard way when walling up on the third Attila the Hun scenario. Cliffs probably should have been mentioned in the video, and that's a bit of an oversight. Where they end can be misleading on elevation slopes as well.
Spirit of the Wall
+Grigor Dimitrov lol
You made my day XD
Spirit of the waL
Hole in the wall
I imagined medieval castle and the king sends out scout - "hey, there's a cool dragon outside, check this out!". The scout wants to go outside, but his horse is going crazy, changing directions 5 times per second. And the king is like "nailed it, no holes".
Lol at how smooth, professional and monotone you pronounced "pussywood" xD
+DannyECDUB It's like that time in my terrestrial vertebrates class I had to do a presentation on Parus major, or the "Great Tits" as they're commonly known. Just gotta say it and carry on
Try not to laugh at this:
Wunder Boner
+PhoenixAlaris93 i failed :/
+PhoenixAlaris93 I actually giggled lel
yeah it might have something to do with him not being 15 years old
After watching these I always feel like there will be a quiz at the end.
Spirit of the Law has breached the walls...of my heart.
should have walled better, get sone defensice mangonels too
You sir need petards.
Your display gave me a heart attack god dammit.
there is always a hole in the wall
+luis mendez zak :)
+luis mendez It's a Trap!
this is suprisingly deep
The instant you showed the smaller-trees mod, I literally said out loud to my computer screen, "Oh, that looks -lame-".
Reminded me of older versions of Dwarf Fortress
what i do is whenever i complete a wall, or at least a section, sent a villager outside the wall then lock the gate then send him somewhere in the wall, if he makes it back inside despite the locked gate thats where i find out where those invisible holes are. they happen most often when you build a wall going up a hill, or at least for me
It is slightly faster to close the gates when he is still inside and send him out. If he cant find a way out he wouldnt find a way in.
9:02
- mine own lord! there's an emergency yond requires thy attention immediately!
- what is't, mine own loyal subject? art we under attacketh?! soundeth the alarm, calleth every able man to arms!
- oh, worry not, t's nothing of the sort.
- so what is't? out with t already!
- tis the horses!
- what about them?
- those gents've all did start to spasm and has't seizures!
- oh not this again. Oh prince stuart! didst thee locketh all the city gates again? this prank is getting very much fusty
11111111111111
What are your thoughts on a mod that just flat-out tells you your starting town center is completly walled in? Nice to have...or super lame?
This made me think about the Stronghold game series. RTS mixed with castle builder sim, and kill eachother's Lord (unit who sits in central Keep building). Much like Regicide gametype. So walling up is a very important task.
When your wall has no more gaps, you get a sound alert "The keep is enclosed", and a notification icon on the HUD.
Funny thing for me in Stronghold (Crusader) games is that that's only RTS where I always went for mobile defense... I always try to turtle. But in a game about turtling, naaaaaaaah.
It's not a bad thing.
If you know you have a single hole in the wall you can leave it there so you know exactly where the enemy will attack from
+Dmitri Shnubnekov isn't that like infecting myself with ebola because then "doctors will know what I'm sick with, so it'll be easier to treat". Aren't you better off with them always outside the wall? haha
Against a computer, though, they'll definitely stream units through a gap right into your archers/onagers, so in that case it might be hilarious and strategic
+Spirit Of The Law I actually don't play that much so I'm not going off experience but the theory is that creating an artificial weak spot helps you prevent the enemy from surprising you
+Dmitri Shnubnekov
"A good fort needs a gap. The enemy must be lured in, so we can attack them. If we only defend, we lose the war." - Kambei, "Seven Samurai"
But I agree with Spirit Of The Law, it's only worth the risk against the computer.
+Spirit Of The Law its actually not as crazy as it sounds. i wouldn't suggest doing it every game but i will sometimes leave a hole if it is in a spot that will give me a battle advantage (especially in feudal): elevation, tower, or as a choke point if i have ranged units and my opponent has melee. sometimes all it takes is one good fight to take military advantage and dominate the game.
+Dmitri Shnubnekov This is a useful tactic. Bonus points if you wall them in.
Noooo Spirit why would you point this out ;-;
Had so many games where I abused this exploit and people would resign as soon as my army entered their base
+Freddie Mercury ha! imagine how I feel. You have no idea how many games I've lost because somebody dodges my tc arrows, saved their villagers from wolves, or beats me with something else they picked up in my videos.... :/
+Spirit Of The Law Does this mean you will start fabricating evidence?!
That would be interesting. I don't even remember any fake rumors about Aok/Aoc/AoeHD anymore. Even the instant relic pickup was patched in HD.
+Freddie Mercury Yeah, my dad would make a massive arablast siege onager army, I would wipe up the onagers with hussars, but then all his arablasts would stroll in past my forest.
+Freddie Mercury i thought you never talked
I remember you. Pushing robotic sharks any time soon?
The wall just got 10 feet higher
The wall just got holes in it
8:25 another great AoE logic, where you can't go trough university (byzantines) even tho it has so many holes xD Great video btw!
+Twiggi Brandyberry if you were really picky you could say that units should be able to walk through most buldings and definetely through those which are seen or likely to have multiple doors
and if you were really REALLY picky you could argue that people could just break the doors and walk right in
i mean loads of japanese walls were basically paper
*****
and you could say a villager could kill a teutonic knight in one hit if he sticks his dagger into the slit of the helmet
*****
well if you have a full armor consisting of leather harness with chain mail and plate mail then an arrow fired by a bow isnt gonna do any damage
crossbows or arbalests tho would be able make you combat ineffective with one hit
and with almost any mounted unit the animal could be killed with one shot but instead mounted units usually have more hp...
at the end of the day we know its all for gameplay reasons and not for realism anyway
+Edward Nutt longbowmen were the most accurate archers in the world. so much so, if you could not hit a target on the bull 500ft away, you were cast out of the school, on your tests at 14/15.
Also everyone was told by the king to learn archery not just at the archery school.
*****
I got that from a documentary (What the tudors did for us, or one of those type of series by robinson (the fella from black adder, forgotten his name)).
Might not be that high but they definitely got booted from the academy for longbowmen. Remember we still had short ranged archers we used against the french knights.
So they weren't totally retired for a career in archery, just not elite enough for longbowmen. It was the same training we had for our later armies and navies. This is why we had the greatest empire...we had trained our men, professionally and to a higher standard than most other major empires.
i dont like your new intro... but the hole video is nice and interesting
+Björn Schmidt probably just a submitted one from a fan.
The real question,why would you use a building to act as a wall
I asked myself that question as well. If you got a solid wall all the way around you'll know the couple spots you may have a hole and those buildings are far less likely to be destroyed in the raid
Because in early game, buildings have more hp than palisade walls. Also it saves up on resources
Not only the resources, but also the time. You have to build a blacksmith, barracks, stable, houses all anyway. Making them your wall can save a few minutes of villager time that would be spent walling
Hey man I love your videos. Is there any chance you could do a video examining mangonel/onager mechanics? I've never really understood how its spread works, like whether the damage is a per shot thing or just a general area of effect and the shots are just for show.
your videos are addictive :3
Holy crap I LOVE this channel, just found it; watched 2 videos (and in-that have watched almost an hour of awesome content already) So well done, thanks a lot for all your effort man, maybe someday I'll watch and consume all the awesome content/info you've put here.
Haha man there's nothing worse than spending time walling up only for the enemy to just waltz through your base. Another annoying one is trying to seal off a chokepoint in a rivers map only to find the game won't let you place walls in certain spots.
Great video, but you should also also include strangler-trees. Just two cuts with vill, build palisade and delete.
+Chris M true. Worth a quick mention, for sure
When you eventually decide on making an update to this video, I hope u note down the possibility of the "empty corner" or "tower hop" when constructing walls
its so funny how this game is like 20 years old and yet here we are watching videos about invisible holes in walls : p
I guess there is a third kind of gap: when you lay the foundation but an enemy unit walks over it as the villager is about to start building.
how about a video on paliside/stone wall's armor/pierce armor and attack from infantry vs cavalry?
On a slightly related note, can anyone tell me wtf is up with the units occasionally going through walls glitch?
I mean I was playing a couple matches of the original AoE2 HD against bots (cause I'm a fucking casual) and consistently the bots piled all their military against my walls (my guess is because they were trying to assault my base but somehow failed to realize the wall was there) and every now and then they just started walking RIGHT THROUGH THE SOLID, COMPLETELY SHUT GATE I had built there. There were no 1 block holes anywhere in the wall, I checked.
+RandomGuy1994 Sometimes units get shoved into trees and boats get shoved onto land tiles (similar to how units end up when you ungarrison them from a building that's walled in). That's probably the same bug.
ZortLF2 They really should fix that if at all possible
+RandomGuy1994 I think it's hilarious.
ZortLF2 It can be really frustrating when like 4 or 5 enemies get through in quick succession and kill a couple of your villagers and some low health buildings before you manage to dispose of them because you weren't expecting the enemy to start manipulating the existence of space and time.
Lol the same happened to me once, my two handed swordsmen just phased through my opponent's gate. I think it was to do with how gates have multiple sections (the wall sections with the flags on top, and the actual gate that opens and closes). My units went in between those.
Oh my goodness, the old intro hahaha
An important video for AoE players and,... Donald Trump,... for obvious reasons lol!
OMG the intro graphics... I WANT IT BACK
The video's intro was made by someone named Termite Dust. Very appropriate for a video about gaps in walls.
👍 Donald Trump likes this video.
I've seen you in another AoE video!
You could just not put buildings into your wall
Is that sexual harassment?
LOL yes, bcs building has more HP... never mind, building is cheaper... never mind, building is faster to build... never mind. There might actualy be a reason to make wall out of wall ...
YOU JUST ABUSED A WOMAN! DISGUSTING! DISGUSTING!
You need the buildings anyways, so putting a wall instead of the building is wasted resources.
Also for unit producing buildings, you can very easily create units outside of the wall.
It is to landgrab in this style, to not lose sheep, not get killed by a rush or lose villagers easily, not lose boar etc. It does not maximise defence, it minimises villager down time, and is the fastest way to protect yourself whilst not sacrificing eco.
I am a much bigger fan of the TC and farm surround, meaning the buildings are somewhat protected later on by the tc, and the TC and villagers are a little harder to get to, but the other way is just far more practical on a lot of maps, as that is only good on pretty hemmed in maps.
see this is why you don't build buildings into your walls!
Having played AoE2 for 15 years I quickly found myself wondering this problem when enemies and my own units were getting through my walls and presumed blocked paths. Trying to build over the existing wall over the distance made that quickly solved.
Spirit of the WalOLO! HOYO HOYO, HOYO HOYO!
What I do to check for gaps is stick a villager outside the wall (if I don't think any are there), lock all the gates and tell him to get his ass inside. Then I follow him and wherever he gets in I tell him to plug up the hole :P
lol 100% same thing i do 😂😂😂😂😂
I wonder if these videos are for people that just bought the game (and dont know that beach is open space) or for 120actionsperminute people who are looking which faction has more pixels on their buildings...
I rarely get fooled by those illusions. I am always checking my walls while building them to make sure everything is in order. And since I don't use buildings in my wall structures, I am pretty safe from the building illusion. I guess that is my brain rejecting optical illusions (seriously, I rarely get fooled by those too).
please do a mongol civ overview
+Jack Edmondson I am still waiting for this one... ^.^
+Jack Edmondson its done
+princessbinas there is one
I know. I saw it about a month ago. I loved it.
princessbinas c
does AI make these gap mistakes?
TLDW: 9:05 "Lock any gates and try to send your scout through"
Realizes gates are stronger than walls, builds a wall of gates :P
+Kaotic Phoenix they are stronger but they are bigger witch means more space for destructors.
+Kaotic Phoenix lol funny guy
Not per tile. Per tile even stone walls are stronger than gates. And there is a slight difference between units pouring into a 1 tile gap versus a 4 tile gaping maw of doom for the poor sod who built a wall of gates.
Whenever I complete a walling, I try sending my builder to the other side to see if it's enclosed.
I never get why people build houses and buildings as walls instead of just... well... walls. What's the benefit on having your armory as a wall? You save stone? Is it worth it? I always have the feeling that if I use a building as a wall it will be the obvious weak spot and will fall against the enemy more easily, so... why?
+Sondaro S. my justification for it has always been that I'm building the houses anyway, so I have to spend the wood and build time either way. At least instead of sitting in the corner or cluttering up my town they can contribute to protecting my villagers.
Spirit Of The Law That is what I was thinking, but isn't it way easier to blow up a house instead of a wall, thus making your walls weaker than someone who completely walls the base? if someone comes with siege weapons to my front door and sees a house in the middle of the wall they can blow it up easily and pass through the immense gap. In fact, they don't even need siege. Is it really worth it? I don't know, it's been a long time since I played AoE2 but I'm very curious
You also know where they're most likely going to attack
if you can't react in the time it takes to down those houses you deserve to lose anyway.
walls aren't there to soak damage, they're there to delay surprise attacks enough for you to get a counter going. houses are pretty adequate for that.
Hey there, Spirit Of The Law!
I've been watching all of your video's about AoE2 and I just needed to say thank you for them!
You blew some new life in my love towards AoE and your calculations are amazing!
Keep up the good work!
Good choice of music. Smoking a Jay to this, feeling nice.
Easiest and cheapest way to walk your base without gaps is by playing again *Legend of Wall* . 100% guarantee!
Walls? *WALLSS??!* Sparta dont need walls. The spartans army is the wall. Right, men? *looks behind at the city* Ahhhh crap. Bandits raided the storehouse again.
*CHARGEEEEEE*
Trump
Skip to 9:03.
There, you know how to fix gaps in the wall.
Just like with Rise of Rome, I know I'm supposed to cycle between houses and walls, but my OCD just won't let me do it. RIP competitive Age of Empires play.
Step1: Be goths
Step2: Even if you are not goths, don't build walls, they'll just slow down your eco/military power
Step3: Start rushing
If you still want to have some sort of warning or chokepoints, build some palisades, almost no one bothers to destroy all of these (or all stone walls for instance, its just too many clicks), much cheaper and can still help you direct enemies where you want to fight them. IMO, stone walls are only useful on closed/semi-closed maps, to fortify some chokepoints.
I hate those gaps. Encountered one today in the third Joan of Arc mission. I thought I had walled all the shallows across the river and the land connections in the north of the map. I had wiped out everyone on my side of the river but I kept getting raided. Turned out that there was a 1 tile gap between a forest and the edge of the map in the north that I missed.
I have this mouse lagg of movement and clicking.
Sometimes it doesn't even responds when I click so when I clicked for the second or third time it did work.
But this really slows down my game.
So what could it be? It's not my internet connection since that works always just fine (got cable) and my mouse is also with a wire. The hotkeys on keyboard are much faster and always respond so I am pretty sure it has to do something with my mouse or with steam.
I have windows 7 64 bit. (btw is it worth to update to windows 10 when you have a gaming pc? For laptops with touchscreen it's great but I have doubts on it when it comes to gaming pc).
Had a spit take just yesterday. Had a solid 20ish tile wall but one end had 3 end prices in a row. Thought "strange" and moved on. Imp age comes and a 45 unit army just phase through the center end price like woooooooow
Oh shit, this never even occurred to me before. Buildings that units can traverse don't block anything. I.E. (not that you would) but if you tried using a town center as part of your wall, units can just walk through it.
I have problems with enemy walking through solid (no gap) walls built on uneven terrain and walking through closed gates. These may be bugs in programming.
You forgot one simple Trick...Just send Out a villager and observe him while navigating around The wall
Actually, walls are just as strong as the men who defend them.
+Fernando Ortiz not in aoe
imagine a double fortified wall with 2 militia guarding it and a palisade with 10 paladins
which wall do you think would go down first
double fortified one
Maybe with petard mass. Or British trebuchets mass.
What I do is build walls as far away from any trees as possible so that they don't block the wall. Same with buildings, all my buildings stay inside the walls. And if my economy is booming I will even build up to 2 more layers of wall with keeps and bombard towers to protect it. Sometimes if I really feel like it, I'll build castles in between my keeps and bombard towers.
videos like these are only making my descision not to play such games online even stronger. a 10 minute video, just to point out gaps in wall structures. you hardcore people make the game seem fun in vids, while equally destructive towards new players. you smash them, giving them a sower taste. they resign from trying to play online, and thats how you kill off a community.
Are you planing to do a video about garrison units in buildings that is able to shot arrows. Would like to know if there is different depending on what unit you put in a Tower, tc, castle etc. and if there change depending on the age (like if you use a simpel dark age archer or use the same unuppgraded archer but are in imperial age)
Instead of building a wall around the forest, it might be more economical to instead use walls to "trap" the villagers between the wall and the forest (with a gate if you want them to be able to enter your city proper), if just to avoid some enemies sneaking into your base unnoticed.
It's not really an optical illusion. It's more of an assumption. Why wouldn't you just drag the wall to be built past the building you're butting against?
could you make a video on Trebuchet strategy? Up til now I have only ever used them vs stationary buildings from a safe distance. But in your videos, I see them being used mid-battle against various units. This intrigues me!
Eh, they are only really good against buildings frankly, you can just use them against units though.
If they are not in range of buildings, you might as well use them to try and kill some archers. Otherwise you're wasting the Trebuchets because they aren't doing anything
they're good if you're playing as the Britons because of splash damage, but apart from that they kinda suck against units - not accurate enough, and apart from the Japanese, their rate of fire is too slow. Spirit loves the Japanese kataparuto tech though so he probably uses them against units for the lols.
He mains Japanese and the unique tech makes trebuchets actually okay against units since they pack, unpack, and fire a lot faster.
I've never had this problem, it's always pretty clear to me where to place walls and if there's any gaps, hell I rarely ever get to the point of finding gaps at all, since my walls are so well placed from the get go. I don't even like AoE2, mainly because it crashes on me a lot.
Mayde it would be a good idea to not include buildings in your walls if you can help it?
That would be inefficient, since you are building buildings anyway, using a 'pure' wall would waste res, build time, space and gather time.
BeepingMetal but you’d avoid having these many holes in the walls that this vid points out.
Lol, never saw this intro xD
Hhhh I made this when I was 12 XD
Anyone play the Stronghold games? An option to flatten the view of everything in AOE would be nice.
Break in the wall
Play music " Oooo... What did just say and its for the best... because it is "
i don't use pussywood either becouse of the looks, but if i'd use it, it wasn't for better walling but for moving your villagers better to different trees when you have a lumbercamp at the top side of a tree line...
Great video! Some of the gaps were really hard to spot.
all in all it's just another hole/gap in the wall!! (anthem song when your wall is breached) ;D
Why you would build houses barracks and whatever as a part of the wall if you would lose the soldiers/housing space and a big part of the wall if you dont do that you have only lost wall and they have to attack again the building and i know about resources but cmon why
Or you could just make your wall solid and no buildings in between. It doesn't look very good.
Unless the forrest is thick. I always wall around the tree's so I have no gap and I gain and deny resources to the enemy.
What about the gaps in the middle of a solid wall? I have times when I am playing on fortress and enemies walk right between my wall and my gate. I believe I have seen it both with fortress generated walls and my own built walls, and both between two wall tiles and between walls and gates, but it's possibly only a problem with fortress generated walls between walls and gates, because that is mainly what I can think of seeing it happen on right now. I have tried to build walls over the holes and it does not let me, so there are no tile holes
I'm flabbergasted how you did not mention that one stone walls are built, with a gate. Another way to check a gap, is lock the gate and send a unit to the other side of the wall. If their is a gap, he will get through fast. No gap, he will go all the way around or stop at the wall.
I'm having REALLY big problems on a Michi-type map. I'm fighting a team by myself and I always find that the AI just builds castles, village centers, and unit production centers everywhere. I broke through the treeline with a mixed army of ~400 Teutonic Knights, Halberdiers, and Trebuchets and he just throws Calvary mixed with Korean War Wagons, Onegers and sometime Trebuchets. Seems anything I can use to counter kills my own units (bombard cannons, onagers, etc.).
UPDATE: I _finally_ won! I ended up digging a path through the trees and filled it with some mixed towers on the sides, some Scorpions in the middle, with some halberdiers out in front, with some archers/handcannoneers/monks in the back. When I had enough units busting though into the enemy's town I went ahead and started spamming Siege Onegers and Bombard Cannons.
As soon as that civilization gave up I allied with victory as a term with the other enemy AI, and it was game over from there.
I saved beforehand though, and may replay from where I allied with the other player and just wipe him out instead, just to see if I can.
But my victory goes to Spirit of the Law; I learned the scorpion/halberdiers combo from one of the videos.
Thank you very much Spirit, for all the content you provide!
Didn't even use a _single_ Teutonic Knight in my second playthrough where I won; I ended up having:
~800 units killed : ~500 units lost
~100 buildings razed : ~3 buildings lost
teutonic knights are terrible in mass. why would you even get so many of them?
just a couple of hours ago i won a game against a hard ressonancebot and the death count was almost into the 10 thousands. seriously, i lost 5300 units and he lost 4400. it was so frustrating how i couldn't breach (and actually got pushed back most of the time because the fucker managed to mine twice as much gold as i did) with 17 military buildings spamming trash units non-stop for almost 2 hours. i think it was like 3:20 in in-game time. he had the superior composition with so fucking many 11 (or 12?) range arbalests on top of his trash, more scouts and more siege but his production in numbers wasn't far off mine. unbelievable. i only managed to win when he finally exausted his gold supply and i managed to catch a break long enough to buy gold for my own siege. getting my economy to a large enough size to maintain that was pretty hard too. i think i had 150 villagers all on wood and food just to barely cover production costs.
- SOTL: Do you think there is a gap?
- Me: No.
- SOTL: Actually there is.
- Me: Yes.
- SOTL: Do you think there is a gap between the trees and the buildings?
- Me (based on the other examples): Yes.
- SOTL: Probably there is none, but it's best to check... and there isn't.
- Me: No.
The only way i can remember this happenig to me is because of te water, some times your enemy can walk along the border of the lake and you cannot build a wall there, so you must find a way to close it.
Moral of the story...don't use buildings as walls.
Gotta hate those invisible gaps.
This always gave me a headache. Thanks to this game I am always paranoid if I am well walled up in any games like this.
get your villager to walk across the wall after building it ...he will find the gap if there is one
last time I put a wall around my whole kingdom their were enemies and u know what they did they went under the wall it was because they were mind freak but seriously it happen to me and their was no gaps
I used to lock all the gates and then tell a villager or scout to go outside wall. if it could not then that means no gap . that's how i use to test my fortification :)
i know this issue,i not a pro and i am a lazy player to check is the layers of wall cover all so i always spend stone to build double or triple layers of walls and gates so at least its more secure
am i the only one that noticed that you were one of the comments recommending the pussywood mod as well?
and this is one reason why i try and triple up on walls also noob question here why put your bulidings in with the walls wont they die first before the wall ?
Best way to not have holes in the walls is to not use anything other than walls for your walls, you absolute walnuts.
What about the magyar architecture ? I lov the magyars
Why would you even put a building as part of your wall anyway
the first time I played the normal AOE games. I always build a wall.but then found out that the enemies were coming thru somehow until I learn about those gaps between buildings,shoreline,etc... now I extend the palisades or stone wall as you explained up to the trees. also the gaps happens in the cliffs & mountains too.
+CmdrSloanne yeah, those fake looking mountains in the scenarios can be brutal. The wall has to go right up to the middle of the mountain sometimes. Learned that the hard way when walling up on the third Attila the Hun scenario.
Cliffs probably should have been mentioned in the video, and that's a bit of an oversight. Where they end can be misleading on elevation slopes as well.
Spirit Of The Law
those elevations are a murder. I usually build a wall in front of it with towers. have a good week & keep up the great work.
with siege towers on my side, all your walls will have invisible gabs
We dont habe the Mexican Civ in the game, so we dont need walls
this is very bad, a serious design flaw with the game
what about enemy that passed through my locked gate?
they just... Houdini though the gate, does Mayans has such magic?
Do you think you could do steam workshop reviews? Like scenarios, campaigns maybe even retexture mods. That would be awesome.
+Carlo V that sounds like a fun idea :D
No way that palm tree pathway wasn't deliberate.
I've had this happen so many times 😅😅😅