How good is the Chu Ko Nu? (AoE2)
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Analysis and discussion about the Chinese unique unit: the Chu Ko Nu.
0:50 Castle age stats/bonuses
1:12 Secondary arrows
2:35 Upgrades
3:42 Castle age
7:45 Elite Chu Ko Nu
10:15 Rocketry
12:35 Army composition
13:08 Sponsor
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Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsou...
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition
Damn spirit of the law must have sooo many extra websites sitting around
I get why not, but I really wish sometimes that he actually made them just as a joke T^T I keep checking occasionally, but no luck.
This man knows how to side hustle.
Hes a real business tycooon
My favorite part of the Squarespace sponsorships is SotL's endless new business ventures. They're a fun detail.
Hell yeah
Are we going to get a series about the worst elite upgrades after this video? Might be a neat topic to cover! I know you've done the "worst upgrades", but it would be fun to see it pertaining to only elites.
Genovese xbow to the front
Clicked this video faster than a Chukonu rate of fire
Before or after the elite upgrade?
pretty slow
not very fast then
What took so long?
Chu Ko Nu was my favorite unique unit as a child :) Chu Ko Nu + trebuchets and my friend's army as meat shield
you said, it was your fav unit, i want to ask which unit replaced himself with chu ko nu
@@SahilChikara I guess I said "was" because it has been a long time (more than a decade) since I properly play AOE2. It's still my favorite, don't get me wrong. Nothing can replace those memories of a ball of death of Cho Ko Nus wrecking everything in its path.
Chu Ko Nu, the bane of Le Loi campaign where Rattan Archer failed to shine in the Vietnamese campaign and makes people thinks that Imperial Skirmisher is their unique unit
Rattans do fine against Chu Ko Nu as long as you focus fire them, and importantly also kill the knights/cavalier that always accompany them in Le Loi, so they absolutely have their place.
@@teddyhaines6613 they do fine and trade 1:1, replaying the Le Loi campaign I found Skirmisher + Cavalry Archer did better in most mission, only the final mission where I found Elite Rattan is better than Heavy Cav Archer.
The campaign is designed to face many Chu Ko Nu, Onager, Champion, and Cavalier. If only the enemy is not all Chinese, and train more like xbow or cav archer, then Rattan would have more time to shine
@@bigbroarivus I prefer a melee complement to the archer in the campaign because you often have a ton of siege to snipe. I'll go for knights or battle elephants depending. I actually think the final mission is the only one where I reach for the Imp skirm, but only to spam into the enemy base alongside light cav to keep their army count low while the main deathball of elite battle eles, rattans and siege kill all the buildings.
you said it before and i liked it: because they're and anti anti-archer archer
Reminds of that YuGiOh-card: Anteaterearingant
That was the Geneose Crossbowman, since it counters cavalry. The Italians also have the anti anti-infantry infantry in the Condottiero, which counters hand cannoneers.
Ask the Huskarls, Spirit..
Ask the Huskarls..
The elite Chu Ko Nu upgrade deserves a 5% attack speed bonus, just to offset the increase due to animation.
Finally. We are going to have an overview for the Chinese in the next few weeks.
No ßhit Sherlock@@Ghost-qr6yh
Yeah....right after the overview for teutons...
No shit Sherlock,@@Ghost-qr6yh
No shit,@@Ghost-qr6yh
Or will we?
1:15 samurai with ADHD checking if he brought his sword... many times
Justice for the Chu Ko Nu elite upgrade
2 hours ago I got on youtube and watched your Chukonu garrison dmg video because nothing new was out. And now 2 hours later theres this. Aoe2 Gods are here to please
Since the chinese tecnology discount nerf, chukonu upgrades are unfairly more expensive, maybe devs should balance that
True story Q-Q
China DLC confirmed.
For real?
For age of mythology retold
@@aidancamp2593 No for AOE2.
I was always wondering what would be an archer team up for them. Not in AoE2 specifically, but more in a "fantasy/althistory setting with roughly equal global tech level".
Knowing how the Chu Ko Nu worked IRL, I think they could have been made differently, and rather than fire multiple shots with a standard reload time, they could fire one at a time but have a much shorter reload time if they don't move (just to say something as an example, up to twice as fast as the Arbalester), in exchange for less damage.
at least in the Genie Engine as it worked in 1998, that wasn't a mechanical option, though I fully agree it makes more sense than the burst fire zhugenu we got.
I think the Kipchak used to work like that (besides standing still), until it was nerfed into a mounted Chu-Ko-Nu because something about their rapid-fire was overpowered.
Nice that you mentioned that historical Chu-Ko-Nus typically had poison on the tips of their arrows to make them lethal. And from everything I've heard, the poison they'd douse those arrows with was strong enough to kill a TIGER.
Spirit forgot to mention the real strength of the Elite upgrade: 40 E CKU's Combined with chemistry blasting fire bolts is dazzling... Just like my new side business, Spirit of the Lightshow.
im impressed by all those different website names SotL has come up with😂
Literally just finished a game playing African Clearing 2v2. Booming whole game and then going full CHU KO NU + TREBS AND LIGHT CAV. Melting Hindustani and Japanese. Then came on UA-cam to check review of CHU KO NU, and i see you just posted it. Thanks :)
Zhegenu is from Shu Han in 200 AD, which is one of hundreds kingdoms and empires in China. Qing, Han, Song, Ming, and etc. all have wildely different cultures and militaries. AoE is Eurocentric for good reasons but it’s still wild to see how every little tiny European civs like Scillians and Lithuanians are represented with unique game and art design while the whole China, which is bigger than Europe with multiple times more population, is just one thing, moreover all Asian civilaization execpt for India have exactly the same weird pseudo-Japanese architecture
Not really. Most of the strategy game market driven by European descended males, who disproportionately can afford gaming pcs worldwide. India became fleshed out when that market got into gaming. It isn't surprising that the game focuses on the identities of its primary player base. Also, politically speaking, breaking up chinese culture into smaller nations wouldn't sit well with the CCP who would simply ban the game.
I did say "eurocentric for good reasons" didn't I? I know the only reason Asian civ exists in AoE is because they needed samurai in the game.
@@taowroland8697Also there is a blaring example that proves your "westerners driving strategy game market" statement wrong, Starcraft. I bought AoE2 in SK when I was young, when AoC was out.
@@aaaaaaaard9586 I suppose I should have said historical strategy games. Total War, AoE, Civilization, Rise of Empires, Crusader Kings, etc.
What you named were different dynasties of the same civilisation, not different a different civ. That’s like asking for Plantagenets and Tudors as different civs. China was a unified state for most of its history in this period. Nanzhang or something could be a different civ but how many people are asking for that?
Battering ram: *exists*
Chu ku nu: Haha bolts go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
You never cease to amaze me with your side gig puns
The outro music tickles my ears in the best way possible
I wish I could advance in time to the year 3000, just to see how many civilisations this game will have.
Havent played AOE2 since i was a kid 20 years ago. Still watch every video because i have good memories playing as a kid 20 years ago. 😊
I remember in 1.0c Conqurerors the Chu Ko Nu were stronger than now. But not sure, it just feels like that.
Power creep of other new civs
NGL when I play with the Chukounu I pretend the soldiers are actually carrying Huo Long Jian, a handheld rocket arrow launcher to explain why it comes out as a spray and why it does so much damage against armor
They should just move the +2 damage from rocketry to the elite upgrade and then have rocketry only give +4 to scrpions. Then the elite upgrade would seem justified without making the unit any stronger or weaker than it currently is.
But then the value of Rocketry becomes totally gimped, if it only gave a minor damage buff to scorpions then it wouldn't be taken in 90% of situations and would be too expensive for what it does.
Personally, I'd be curious to see what would happen if Rocketry instead gave +1 damage to the secondary arrows, but that might be totally broken in practice so I can see why it is the way it is.
@@Howardax, if it gave +1 to secondary arrows, the increase would be negated by armour equal or above 1.
Unless they made the secondary projectiles ignore armour.
@@thomasfplm Haha yeah, that's what I meant but you put it in better mechanical terms; My possible idea would be Rocketry grants Chu-Ko-Nu 2-DMG arrows that ignore armor.
Chinese overview or retrospective soon ig.
Heres a question for whomever sees this comment. Do you like how AoE2 does hidden and/or extra damage? Should unit stats be better explained or is it enough?
*Whoever. I know the word comes after a preposition, but the verb is the more important distinguishing factor. "Sees" is the actions verb here, meaning "whoever" is the subject. And the difference between "whomever" and "whoever" is object vs. subject respectively.
Anyway, I think the tech tree should have explained it a bit more. Which is why I'm glad there's a mod that adds that extra information.
Age of Empires 3 did it right (yeah, yeah, I'm already wearing the asbestos suit) by allowing you to see it if you wanted, but keeping it hidden if you didn't turn on advanced stats, because damn did that stat screen get messy.
This video was awesome. The coment on scale of the fight you did in the 1st half of the video comparing little battles of chu ko nu and crossbows vs cavalry was excelent.
To be 100% in this comparisons between ranged vs melee you could do a table (like many incredible tables you used in this video) to show the tipping point were equal resources of ranged vs melee makes the ranged unit win. Maybe the % comparison you did between cross vs chu you could do between calv vs ranged using % of HP left as a sign of the win/lose side. Of course with micro. Maybe even counting (using the video length) the secs it takes to kill everyone. Like a "APM drawback" of microing long dificult battles like archers vs cavalry.
This would be specially cool in archers vs onagers. This table with the tiping point or with the amount of secs it takes to destroy this better opponent.
Well, just some ideas.
Your videos are better each time SotL. We all love you. TY for you content.
.
I would like to see this one more in line with the "real life" conter part, give it a magazine with 5 arrows that it can fire very fast and a bigger reload time for the magazine.
Hey spirit, law of the guys here
They are a truly distinguished unit, a classic, a staple.
When I was a kid my friend always called them "chickenoos" never fails to make me giggle
Chu Ko Nu my beloved...
Ah, the unit I used to spam way back in the day on Age of Kings on my extraordinarily long save names, with next to no villies and castle spam as I could get it, punishing those easiest opponents the best I could.
All hail our new Lord. Spirit of Cape Canaveral!
I can imagine SOTL designing a website for the Australian police called Spirit of Law Enforcement
Australian? He’s clearly American. He has a rhotic accent.
It's not really an accuracy debuff; it's just that the 1st projectile is 100%, last 2 extra projectiles are the ones that hit about ~40% of the time.
Clicked this video as fast as the Chukonu rate of fire AFTER the elite upgrade
Interestingly Chu ko nu are the fastest firing projectile weapon until gatling gun
The table at 10:00 (showing the elite upgrade's DPS bonus) was without rocketry, wasn't it? Wouldn't it look worse with Rocketry? That only buffs the main projectile, so the reduced attack speed of Elite has a greater negative effect after Rocketry. And since you'd prioritize Rocketry over Elite anyways, that's relevant to consider.
Chukonu literally a walking castle
Rocketry and elite upgrade have personal beef with units with 11 armor.
Also that poor 9 armor unit in arbalester comparison, wow😅
I would have loved a Composite Bowman comparison since they're both archers that buck the trend of being weak against pierce armor
Also wouldn't mind comparing them against rattan archers
Would have loved to see the elite upgrade damage change if you already researched rocketry too
chu ko nice
That the extra projectiles don't do damage seems to be a bug tho.
Now imagine a Chu Ko Nu on an elephant. That’s terror.
Are u ginna do vids on age of myth?
As a Kid i played aoe 2 with Cheats and i allways Build the unique Unit from every Nation. In the competitve scene im allways hyped to See these on the rare occasions they where Build. Great Video and very analytic! 👍
Well in my opinion chu ko nu is underpowered. Their reload time should be longer but all projectile should do full base damage + accuracy like arambai. Peace ✌️
I was wondering why you weren’t mentioning the accuracy until you did in the Imperial Age section. Oof.
I kind of expected you to analyze aom retold a bit more. It's even more confusing than aoe2.
Elite upgrade?
How about Chu-ko-NO
I understand that the Elite Chu Ko Nu has potentially lower damage output because of the hidden decrease in accuracy for the follow-on arrows but is that not an intended benefit? I wonder if the missing extra arrows could potentially damage other units adjacent to the target, i.e., a large group of enemy archers. This could indirectly alleviate overkill if units are allowed to free fire.
Waiting to see a very big "unit fix" section in the next patch after this video
I liked Chu Ko Nu in Age of Kings, but it seems like they were nerfed in recent versions.
It’s the power creep of new civs being released
Still waiting for that Teutons overview.
I'm curious if the elite upgrade might lower the DPS with Rocketry compared to non-elite + rocketry, and what the total DPS increase is with rocketry + elite upgrade.
Hmm, no wonder it's so rare to see them now.
I love this unit. Total deathball power fantasy. But then come the enemy onagers...
hit a run is a very common strategy with archers, so in these cases wouldnt the elite upgreade really decrease the total damage, as you`ld need to get the left over +1 arrows out?
Hello!
Im just going to have to call SOTL Daddy now because he has more websites than Go Daddy
Chu ko nu buff incoming?
What units can even flank Chu ko nue?
With normal archer units, any cav unit can run past the front line and snipe.
Chu ko nue will just kill them anyway.
Only unit I can think of is the savomsha rider with that arrow immunity, but even that gets drained.
Longbowmen simply out range them by a mile though
Just use your own archers or skirms. Spirit made the chu ko nu look better against archers than it is by not microing archers back to exploit their superior range.
What do you know about the new DLC?
Imma launch my satellite with spirit of the low orbit
shikanoko nokonoko koshitantan!
the comparison between elite and non elite dmg takes rocketry into account? otherwise it might not be worth it then
I dislike the "main arrow, secondary arrow" mechanic, wish it was just 4 [+upgrades] damage per arrow
I think that makes for really awkward balancing, as it would effectively give them potential +16 dmg from default upgrades, while other range would still only get +4. You'd have to basically make the entire unit balanced around only performing with the specific levels of upgrades.
It's busted if you do that
High pierce armour units are probably unaffected but lower pierce armour units gets shredded even faster than rn
And "faster" is an understatement, the thing will wipe light armoured units like it's the plague
The 58 seconds ago squad here
IRL build for fast reload / fire rate but in game let flip the script
So will getting both Elite AND Rocketry still be a net damage gain?
Old school Semi Automatic
oh yes new sotl
Boeing's gonna get jealous
Chinese overview incoming?
Chinese skipped the worst upgrade (Hussar), and got the worst uniqe unit upgrade.
Are teuton rams helpful against chu ko nu?
are chu ko nu good against shrivamsha rider?
Should melt them. Shrivamshas are terrible once their shield is down, and chu ko nu do that in record time.
Ok, so is he like a website designer for his day job or something?
Bring back Obsidian arrows now! 😢😢😢😢😢
Hey Mr. of the Law, will you ever review the literal ABANDONWARE that is Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds, with the Expanding Fronts mod? (the fans respect the game more than Lucas Arts does 🤦♂)
He did a video on Galactic Battlegrounds a while ago.
@@josiahgibson6373 Oh boy :DDD
AoE's younger brother should not be forgotten!
chu cant nuke me
I still hate the AoE extra projectile system
Let me guess, Ethiopians overview next
So should I upgrade Chu Ko Nu to elite or not?
Yes but only when youre floating the res, have a large army of CKNs, and have Rocketry first.
De-prio the upgrade unless youre specifically aiming to shred buildings/siege
I always hated using this thing
I don't know
Me waiting for the updated teutons overview :
That's a lot of minutes to say "the best"
Is the Elite Cho Ko Nu bugged? No way it is intended to decrease their attack rate and accuracy.
maybe swapped with normal ver by mistake
The accuracy is likely, but the attack rate decrease is because of the extra arrows. They don't reload slower - their attacks take longer to complete (though, granted, they could have increased the reload speed to compensate).
If only the extra arrows have a chance of missing, its likely that the chance is doubled, given the number of bolts is also doubled, so that a similar number of bolts will hit per shot but you have a potential for more hits.
I'm left wondering why you still do these videos when you have like a hundred booming side businesses, each with great website as well.
wtf is a nogchu ko nu?
bro malians 😥😥😥😥😥😥
It’s not :(