Competitive Pokémon is a full time job (if you don't cheat...)
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2022
- #vgc #pokemon #pokemonworlds
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Wow.
I'm glad Pokemon Pink and Pokemon Rapid Red didn't have these problems. I don't think I could stand playing them if they did.
Hey you do all pokemon stuff so cool I sub to you
For real tournaments you shouldn't have to make your pokemon in game and just generate them for the event. In game when you do duel then it should be found in the world but official competition shouldn't limit anyone to their luck in RNG and amount of hours grinding.
Kudos to the trainer still trying to capture a perfect Groudon without RNG manip out there, I think they only have 51 years to go!
There is no need to do that. You can just use bottle caps in Gen 8.
@@Saroku1000 i think he is talking about Gen 3-4
and still what if i want a TR Groudon but the One i find is 31 Speed?
@@Saroku1000 can you also get 0 speed with bottle caps? Nah.
@@Mepphy99 I seriously wish they had added an npc that can reduce IVs. It only makes sense since they also added one that added that raised them.
@@ArtisChronicles HOLY Shit. You my friend are a GENIUS. actually would be such an awesome concept. Love the idea of it being an npc too, so many fun things you could theme him around and require as small payment if any for his to an untrained eye very weird service.
def keepin this as a wishlist idea!
The fact that Gamefreak has made modern single-player Pokemon content absurdly easy and non-challenging, but keeps the competitive scene the most tedious and unwelcoming in the video game industry makes zero sense
Excellent point. And these are the reasons why I would never play Pokémon main games again even though I like the game concept
Actually raising competetive Pokemon nowadays is easier than ever
@@gustavoschiller6852 "Easier" =/= "easy". There's still a ways to go to make it a less cumbersome experience.
It makes zero sense, because the devs don't put one third of the time (and don't give to shit) )thinking about stuff like those shown in the video.
@@warrioroflight8329 But they are the ones that made the stuff shown on the video
most importantly, this is the process you have to go through if you know EXACTLY what you want your end team to be. For each time you want to experiment with maybe a different moveset, another EV-Nature-Constellation, or maybe replace a pokemon on your team with another entirely, you can basically start this entire programm all over again and put 40 hours into it, with no guarantee that you will be happy with the results this time either.
Yeah, training a whole team and then "not feeling it" was awful.
I married myself to some pretty mediocre teams because of that and I never did them absolutely perfect unless I liked them (which meant in my time playing I did it twice) and after the trouble of actually building the team suboptimally and it not working, it always stays on your mind "if they were perfect, maybe it'd work".
Thats why simulators like pokemon showdown exist though. Granted it came out in 2011.
@@Farenhyte- Yeah, I found out in the tail end of my playing time.
It was a godsend, but I was mostly burned out of it with the extra work from uni.
@@Farenhyte-on the other side, when one goes through the trouble of downloading an extra program where you can create a team to your liking, where you can manipulate its moveset, evs, ivs, nature, etc... when it truly comes down to it, what does that put apart from just hacking your team in the first place?
this is actually so true and I wish he talked about it in the vid, in game the vgc champion probably experimented with 10's or 20's different team combinations before he was happy, and even if you want the same pokemon but with a different nature (like say i want a phys def groudon instead of a spdef groudon because it better compliments my team in test battles I did) then you have to literally find an ENTIRELY NEW GROUDON DO THE WHOLE PROCESS OVER AGAIN JUST TO BE PHYS DEF INSTEAD OF SPDEF. Now oh my team sucks? It wasn't as good as I envisioned it to be? start over from scratch. I've seen people put over 4+ hours just teambuilding to find 6 pokemon they want to test.
Getting 6 satisfactory pokemon at the start is basically the tip of an iceberg for competitive battling is the best way to describe it
This is why showdown is such a godsend.
It allows people to test their teams without having to grind the mons.
showdown has a lot of other nice features too but yea the teambuilding is so good
I agree, showdown is a godsend.
With that being said.. who's going to multitask like that?
You as the prospective comp player need to both build your team (which requires your undivided attention to not mess things up) and play around with the composition of your team (which also requires that you pay full attention to the interactions and other conercases that might make a huge difference) at the same time to be time efficient, which IMO is unreasonable.
The biggest factor is not skill development, but getting the actual team put together.
That's like telling world chess champion Magnus Carlson that in order to have a queen, a, bishop, and two of his pawns for the next tournament he'd need to do 70 hours of some hoop jumping BS, he'd tell you it's not worth it and walk away and go back to playing chess on the comp to increase/maintain his skill.
Yet thats magically expected of people playing pokemon?
Crazy talk.
Shoutout to showdown for making comp players not have to pay for the new dog water games 🙏🙏🙏
@@mmmapplesauce1673haha
I like thinking about this scenario in universe. Across different regions there’s just a trainer with two screaming birds running around using the screaming birds to verify their decisions.
Like performing some sort of esoteric voodoo magic
Sounds like an Adult Swim skit.
Now I want a psychic/flying regional variant that is clairvoyant and uses it's calls to communicate it's visions in cryptic manners.
Pokedex would be something like "It uses it's calls to tell the future, lower pitch calls means bad fortune for grass type pokemon."
that is hilarious
don't forget interdimensional travel.
I can't believe you caught that Rayquaza in a Pokeball
Wow let professionals see it before us smh
@@snailcakes9119 I'm a member, if you join too you can see it when the members see it ;)
@@Tama-Hero shhhh don’t take this away from me
still losing sleep on that
@@ZyrusSmith cringe bait lmao
I spent hours of my life in ORAS IV breeding Marills to the point where my friends memed me for a while. So I gotta give you all the respect for getting this team legit and showing how much it takes to compete without hacking. It's actually one of the reasons I stopped competing.
Why Marill? Was Azumarill a good pick?
@@silver1407 azumarill especifically huge power azumarill is really good in competitive pokemon specifically after gen 6 where it recived the fairy type as a gigantic buff
I used to play competitive too, I actually loved breeding and ev training in oras, gen 6 was much faster, in a few hours you could dexnav for decent IV pokemon to breed or for egg moves, EV train and teach reusable TMs, also got a lot of good IV, good nature pokemon from wonder trade
i find gen 7 to be the best gen for competitive since it has the most battle mechanics and the nice automated egg hatching and ev training (pokepelago). all of my shinies are legitimate and of competitive quality.
it took me 3 months 15+hours a day to get a perfect IV charmander on ORAS when i was like 11 or 12 or something.
How to legitimately train pokemon: Master the art of time and fate manipulation
Don't forget infinite patience, lmao
So that’s why the SDM always wins regionals..
You forgot part 1.... Get addicted to freaking Adderall to ever see this as something to do..... Lol
Now imagine doing all this, try out the team and find out it doesn't work the way you thought it would and having to change things around... over and over again until you are happy...
Yeah, like making a team in isolation is a monumental task itself. But then you think about the fact that most competitive Pokemon players will test out different teams and make changes many times, and you realize that it was downright impossible for a person to play competitively without hacking.
Pokemon showdown is a thing. There's a considerable amount of testing that happens before we even get to the acquisition of mons.
@@submit2darkseid was pokemon showdown even a thing back in 2010?
@@danielwang5981 No, it was made in 2011.
@@danielwang5981 Before 2010, there was Smogon shoddy battle.
I can't believe that people asked last video why you didn't just hack in the mons despite the fact that the entire point of this challenge is to show how long it takes without hacking
A lot of people think that rng is the same as a hack I think, so I wanted to really show why it is not the same lol!
@@imablisy it's still manipulation, it's cheating with extra steps. As long as the mons aren't illegal (illegal moves, ability or over 510 EVs) I think genning should be standard.
@@chavaspada you’re an idiot and unwilling to take my arguments and in good faith
@@chavaspada How is it cheating though? He's not generating and injecting pokemon into the game. He's just interpreting data derived from public sources and acting accordingly.
@@imablisy What are your arguments? Also, no need for name calling. We are in agreement that GF these systems needlessly complicated and grindy.
I can't understand why there hasn't been an uproar with the competitive scene towards the developers. this is the total nightmare
Stockholm syndrome.
Because it isn't that bad? Taking 30 hours to craft a world's team really isn't all that bad when compared to other competitive situations. Yeah, people have thrown fits about hacking but Nintendo has tried to at least limit that.
@@mattsmith1859 .. I'm not going to say what you're saying isn't valid. But we clearly have a discrepancy and how we view balancing.. I'm 33 years old. I love gaming, this is abysmal though..
because it wouldn't matter, the competetive scene isn't something they remotely care about. in the end the games intendet audience is always gonna be kids instead of adults trying to play the sweaty version of it
@@mattsmith1859 Then you realize that team has been taken into account for in the meta, or you don't understand the team, or it doesn't mesh with your play style, or any other plethora of factors that can make it a huge waste of time. A 30 hour entry point in order to be able to compete vs hacking or using a battle sim, I think the answer is a no brainer. Having a completely "legit" team means either you have a ton of free time on your hands and treat pokemon like a job, or you convince your friends or join a competitive team where you share mons with others. It's a big hassle that's been admittedly been made better in recent games, but it took a whole decade and it's still a time commitment.
I've always said the stigma on genning pokemon teams is very similar to the netdecking stigma in card games. Both narratives are almost entirely pushed by people that do not play the respective games competitively and just want something to point at as an illusionary problem. It's literally just voluntary outrage for the sake of outrage. Great video, thoroughly enjoyed it.
Not quite, you're conflating two different things here. Netdecking is the card game equivalent of Team Building in pokemon, whereas hacking/breeding in pokemon would be equivalent to card acquisition (i.e opening packs) in card games.
It's an important distinction as in both cases Deck Building/Team Building are important skills for competitive players (I'm talking more about tournament play here) as you need to know how to make adjustments to your team/deck depending on the meta which is a skill many players simply don't develop by netdecking (as they often simply wait for a pro to make the said adjustments to the meta for them to then just copy that).
Breeding/Card Acquisition on the other hand isn't really a skill, it's just time consuming. Though I will say with Pokemon there is a slight knowledge barrier with breeding but once you know what's what there's no difference between breeders in terms of skill level, it's just a matter of who's willing to spend more time on it.
Edit: Just in case there's any confusion when I say "breeding" i'm referring to the entire process of getting perfect IVs, Egg moves and EV training (which includes legendaries) as it has nothing to do with the actual competitive experience, in the same way that acquiring cards has nothing to do with competitive in card games, it's just a barrier to entry.
For example manually raising a pokemon on a cartridge isn't going to make you a better player than simply adjusting a slider on Pokemon Showdown, one is just more time consuming. On the other hand knowing how to build a team/deck (what's your win condition? What's your core? What moves should you include?) will make you a better player than simply copying a team/deck from someone else.
@@Necromitzu1 i get what you're saying but netdecking is done for similar reasons as genning: Saving time to playtest and tune.
I've won a lot of MTG tournaments and had deep runs in larger ones but I've never built a deck in my life. Deckbuilding is a skill I don't possess but I'm very competent at playing the actual game no matter what deck I play. I netdecked and tweaked the lists a little to suit my playstyle my entire time playing MTG. Teambuilding in Pokémon is much more important than deckbuilding is in MTG imo.
Proxying would be a better analogy for genning I think.
The major reason proxy=/=genning is the financial investment. Genning doesn't take anything away from anyone where as proxies actively hurt the secondary market. Big difference between a piece of data that passes as legitimate at no expense to others and a piece of cardboard that should cost money that supports the tournaments and stores you play in.
@@DaigosFriend1 Thats true. I personally don't think either is wrong, I just figured it would be a closer parallel than netdecking is.
The whole TM situation talked about in the video is basically why I’m glad why infinite use TMs are such a good thing whether they be for competitive or for just a normal playthrough. I remember when some people tried to justify single use TMs in the gen 4 remakes and tried to put down the convenience of infinite use TMs.
I'd argue single use TMs are good design if what you're designing for is confined to the basic single player experience, but as soon as you start to approach the levels of optimization required for multiplayer, or even things like battle frontier, it quickly becomes bad design. I actually think there are really cool decision points that limited use tms facilitate in challenges like speedruns or minimum battle playthroughs, but those aren't the only things Pokemon games should be designed for
@@thepotato513 sure but then there is no reason why they cant just let you buy every TM move as an infinite use item in the post game.
@@goblez5900 Absolutely, that's what my first thought was when I saw that they were going through with making tms limited use
@@thepotato513 The motivation behind that decision was obviously to inconvenience the player and force them to play the dynamax raids.
Single-use TMs and infinite TMs should just both be in the game. Lock the infinite-use versions to post-Champion rewards at battle facilities so you can get your competitive teams in postgame, after having your personal journey with your Pokemon in the main game progression
I'm glad you took your time to explain what RNG abuse is, because most time I mention it outside the RNG community people think we are hacking XD
Thanks glad you enjoyed it
you can just tell them you're using the games own mechanics to do whatever. and then tell them hacking is just actively changing numbers in the game to give you an easy and unfair advantage, and often an impossible one
@@ellis2394 I do. It mostly comes up when I'm using RNG abuse in Gen 3-5 games.
@@ZyrusSmith someone didn’t watch the video
@@imablisy It's true that you verified that you didn't use any 3rd party software or hardware to manipulate RNG, thus you didn't cheat. You verified that it was all manual verification and reflexes, and only used a 3rd party checklist to verify your RNG seed, nothing more.
At 11:30 you mentioned something about your DS not being plugged into your computer, but what does that mean? Does that mean you can do this process automatically using software, and that _that_ is considered cheating? If so, is there any way to tell if said Pokémon were caught using manual RNG manipulation vs software doing it for you? I'm a bit confused.
I’m a total casual Pokémon player but this video made me want to buy a copy of all of these games and try the RNG manipulation to get some amazing Pokémon I couldn’t possibly get otherwise due to RNG and time it would take. Awesome video, super thorough and a fun challenge!
Is encourage anyone to try rng manipping! It’s a fun new way to play your fav games
@@imablisy It's basically hacking without hacking.
@@RadzKiram there is no hacking lol
@@RadzKiram Except it takes time and effort, and there's a possibility of failure.
Not worth it. Just cheat
Coming from the causal side of Pokémon games I didn’t know this much work was put into competitive it’s a lot.
Nobody does this, most people just hack lol
I'm glad to see this video. Normalize blaming the game studio when their systems are so bad people have to hack just to play fairly without putting in 200+ hours just to see if the team is any good.
Maybe the intention of gamefreak was "you are not supposed to do it". The good or bad of the intention another question. Questionable at best but another question.
...To be fair the point of pokemon is the trainers want, friends on a fun journey, an epic quest to catch em all, perfect pokemon kinda stomps the friend aspect ya know?
@@nobodybroda3826 yeah i agree i kinda wish EV's and IV's didn't even exist
@@nobodybroda3826 competitive doesn't really open up until post game. You don't have perfect pokemon when doing the story. This ideology makes no sense, because competitive pokemon is completely separate from the story. If GF cared about that logic rental pokemon wouldn't exist. Making the game easier to get competitive viable pokemon post credits should not be seen as a bad thing.
the original intention was just to have a system which makes each pokemon unique. the idea that people would fully understand the existence of the system let alone take the time to optimize it was definitely never considered. the intention is that players just learn to love the quirks of their unoptimized pokemon. maybe min-maxing a bit with breeding, but never getting a fully perfect one. the fact that this system has been carried forward this many years later is more of a symptom of fear of changing anything about a beloved series' core mechanics than anything else. pokemon games were always big, but they're exponentially bigger now, and the game design behind that original decision was extremely not one focused on mass market appeal.
I think it's also important to recognise that the time investment is a massive barrier to entry for new players. There's already a big information wall to be decent at competitive pokemon, but the time sink adds magnitudes to the difficulties of getting into the format. I'm really glad competitive pokemon is getting easier and easier to get into
Yet you get people who still believe that rng manipulate is wrong as well, because they don't want you to have perfect stated pokemon they want that imbalance for some reason
the answer to that is eliminating the mechanics behind it. it's fine to have to BP grind to a nature pill or to change your ability. it's having to do 202309120931 captures/breeds or cheat for a halfway workable critter because IV/EVs are dogshit RNG attached to your pokemon that is the issue.
That said, I am not an advocate for inclusivity in general. sometimes a hobby is specifically the place for lunatics and the people in it like that about their space. Existing customers take priority over new ones to me.
It's also bad for the meta. If real hardware and not Showdown was where competitive strategies were tested, the meta would evolve and adapt at a snail's pace.
Ye if hacking wasn't a thing or wholely not allowed then competitive pokemon would be a dead genre, so much time for what? A team that can be beat by a freeze or crit chance? Pokemon is too fast to spend hundreds of hours on pokemon after pokemon!
dont pokemon showdown already exists where everybody uses legendaries? does it's popularity grow?
I remember playing diamond and pearl back in the day. By the time I had 999 hrs played. I only had 10 battle ready pokemon. It was insane time investment but I was a kid with time to burn.
This takes me back. I trained my first competitive teams in Gen4, but when I started, RNG Manip was neither discovered yet nor did I immediately know about it when it came about. My first team took me months to breed, train and get readily equipped and it was way less optimized than this one, omitting stuff like maxing out PP or going for specific IVs (I just wanted the highest possible. Because I never had the tools for hacking and felt way too bad about it when I did, I never ever ended up hacking my mons and it would severly limit the amount of mons I'd have available until Gen6, where the addition of the Destiny Knot's effect to IVs singlehandedly slashed my breeding times into pieces. Suddenly, it only took me 4 hours to breed one good mon (if I had decent parents). Woohoo!
That's the thing I hate the most. While the games, in my opinion, keep declining in quality, they increase the QoL for competitive play MASSIVELY each game since XY, hooking in people like me who enjoy playing on the actual game. In XY, one mon was one afternoon. In SwSh, I bred entire teams on one afternoon. Of course, legendaries are always a completely different ball park, so I often don't bother with them.
I got ridiculed for not cheating a whole bunch during Gen7, where I actually finally competed in tournaments semi-regularly (as it was finally feasible). And I get why, because the time required is ridiculous. I only did it because I enjoyed working towards the goal and then reaching it. But at that point, I didn't really spend nearly as much time actually battling.
You should watch my latest video if you think XY was good lol
What I would really like to emphasize is that this method already assumes you know your team, know exactly what you want to do and how it holds up against the meta etc.
Imagine building this team but then finding out Hariyama just isn't cutting it, you have to do all the work AGAIN, if even possible because of the used up TMs.
Or if the meta changes entirely, you're in for another 60 hours as well....
This is me on Gen VI X and Y. Thought Golurk and Mega Aero were good because of their abilities and moveset. Spent a lot of time training and breeding for decent to perfect IVs. Turns out Golurk cannot reliably kill stuff outside of TR and even then has less attack than most, No Guard Dynamic Punch can't carry it. It even lacks the bulk to take a SE hit and is easily killed by a regular Gengar. Mega Aero is decent but outclassed by Mega Mawile and that annoying mega kang.
Had I known Showdown existed then, it would have saved me the pain
@@xvcxvcxvcvcxxvc6008
Aw...that STINKS!
Not necessarily. You can try this team out on showdown to check viability. Although considering how online multiplayer battle is a part of the game itself, the game should allow you to theorycraft within the game.
@@TenaciousZed not to mention the meta on Showdown is also somewhat different from in the game, there is a slight discrepancy. Not much but just enough for maybe a move change or two
@@TenaciousZed most newcomers wouldn't even know about showdown.
I think it bears repeating: this is the absolute BEST CASE SCENARIO, with a clear goal, and extensive previous knowledge and routing. Someone who's familiar with Pokemon but never did anything similar to this before would likely take well over 100 hours
I tried to do this without knowing about RNG manip when I was 10. I cried when I finally went out with my team I spent hours on and lost immediately to a bunch of Uber-tier Pokemon. I don't feel as bad for never making it in competitive
birb
I tried to get into competitive during gen 4, and every mon took forever level and get their moves just right... Only to get stomped at the door. Didn't even get past prelims. It was so disheartening.
It's kind of reassuring to know that other people were also frustrated with how slow training was in gen 4.
Yeap you had to be part of the Smogon cult back then
@@trinkie amen! Hahaha
that's a sick project destati pfp you got
@@trinkie or u could just use shoddy regardless? Lol
Nobody, and I mean nobody, actually enjoys pokemon grinding.
This is one of the reasons I will always give SWSH credit where it's due. I made one competitive team in like 1 or 2 days
The one thing I will always give credit to the modern Pokemon games is accessibility for competitive players.
Hell, there was a time when breeding competitive pokemon was a full-on hobby of mine. I still have like four boxes of max IV max EV (maybe) ideal nature level 100 pokemon in shield. Granted, i don’t know anything about actual strategies in competitive, so maybe the pokemon i have are actually garbage (the movesets absolutely are, as i just went for the most coverage possible), but still, the point is that creating competitive pokemon is so simple in gen 8 that even a casual player can do it while having fun
I don’t know why they didn’t steer towards that again I literally had like 4 teams for that game lmfao plus the abundance of tms and dungeons made it SO EASY BRO LIKE WHY DOES NOONE TALK ABOUT THAT
1 to 2 days is till too long. They need to adapt a showdown like system.
@@tannersuitcaseroski I think 1 day is sufficient realistically if you’re going to play competitive you gotta progress the story. It’s gonna take you longer than a day to do that if you’re an adult
As someone who dabbled in competive during gen4 and gen5: This is why I didn't continue doing anything with competitive. I built a single team and called it good enough. The sheer amount of time I spent obtaining pokemon with decent stats was murder.
Same thing happened to me after my first team, never again. Luckily, my local Chinese convenience store carried R4s for cheap so I jumped to the dark side, hacked for gens 4 and 5. Then Showdown came out between Gen 5 and 6, which scratches my pokemon itch just enough, so I haven't hacked or played competitive with a console since Gen 5(also, hacking a 3ds or switch is much harder than the R4 was, so showdown saved me the hassle)
@marinmarinhola
Hacking a 3DS is stupidly easy. It's literally one of the easiest pieces of consumer hardware ever to crack - all the work has been totally done, all models are compatible. You don't even need tools or external hardware (usually). And you can generate pokemon on the device and transfer them to newer gens.
Very nice video, just finished watching it. Makes you appreciate how trivial it is to assemble a team in SV
Most difficult part is getting a 0 IV for a certain team.
@@coreylineberry8557trick room teams in shambles
This summer I also tried to train a competitive team on a single Fire Red cartridge. Not only did I realize how tedious this would have been, but I also realized the concessions I'd have to make in terms of moves (only one opportunity to get Earthquake or Seismic Toss), but the infinitely worse breeding mechanics, and the inability to just straight up get certain Pokemon made it feel impossible.
Needless to say, this was an amazing video. No other competition requires you to buy multiple games and consoles just to actually have a chance, and no other game requires you to commit to multiple work weeks of setup, not even practice, but _setup_ to compete. The fact that you actually did it just to prove how long it would take is nothing short of amazing.
basketball's ball costs about 100$
@@knkn5049 We can only get one game with that $100, just one game
@@petralempicka5870 but sport classes and uniform?
i dont like pokemons, i can withstand only 3 gyms at pokemon blue with hack "0exp" - that saves me from manipulations - i can avoid grinding, but it is still boring and unbalanced game
but what is price to become #1 at the world? and what possibility to not meet the person who would pay a bit more than you? it is auction
@@knkn5049 Are you trying to argue that play basketball is more costly? I am not sure about cost of uniform and class (note that sport classes are not necessary back in my home country). As I know if I wanna get all Pokémon, I'll have to buy 3 consoles (or 2 of consider the backward compatibility of 3DS), and like 6 games. Leave you the information so you can try to calculate yourself.
Yeah, I don't like basketball, I'm 154cm tall and there is no hack of me to jump higher or run faster. Everything is auction but I won't be able to win in basketball even I'm a billionaire, don't you argue that it is even more unbalanced? Funny.
@@petralempicka5870 "..that play basketball is more costly?" - no, i have introduced example that every sport competition requares something from you.
my second statement was about auction, how can i make it more clear?
there is always someone who can do better than you, put more efforts into, why to play if you dont get satisfaction out of process? "i dont want to play if i cant become a champion" - dont play, it is not your problem, it is problem of company who interested at new players
i still think that it is very cool idea to let play only teams you have beaten elite4, i cant blame company that champions pushed limits so high - they were billionares=)
The wait was definitely worth it. I love how you managed to make a seemingly boring and repetitive process sound fun and exciting! Also, that Rayquaza catch was definitely something!
It didn't really sound fun or exciting. It sounds exactly what it looks like. Boring and repetitive. That's the point of the video lol
LOL
It's easy to have fun watching a 10-15 minute video of someone taking 35+ hours to make one team. But it truly is a grind. And honestly, it's kind of sux because you need to have the time to practice with the team, learn specific matchups, and earning the points needed to compete in premier level events, IF you play competitively. If you don't, it's easier to cast stones, which I don't feel is fair either. And as far as genning, the reason the devs have never had a problem with it, because they gen Pokemon to do giveaways. So if you ever accepted a Mon from a Mystery Gift Code, you own a genned Mon. So, that's why I think as long as people aren't breaking the rules of hacking Mons with moves/abilities they shouldn't have or are not shiny if they are suppose to be shiny locked, then using genned Mons should be okay to use. Sorry for the wall of text but that's just my two cents.
@@chileplease3474 agreed. This isn't shade at the creator, in fact the opposite: this video did a great job highlighting just how much that shit sucks!!! This sounds awful to do and I admire them for persevering, could not be me.
Every time I planned out a team and started breeding and catching Dittos...etc , I end quit after getting 75%-90% of my team together (perfect IVs..etc). This whole process just burns you out especially if you start from scratch.
Never been into competitive Pokémon because I know that grinding takes so long but from seeing this it makes me feel better about it
Try Scarlet and Violet. It’s super easy and quick now. I can have a whole competitive team with perfect IV’s, EV’s, ability, moves and nature in no time. There’s no reason to hack anymore or not try out the competitive scene. It’s finally easy and accessible to everyone once you beat the game.
@@dellstudio10the issue with that is, you’d have to play Scarlett and Violet. Which is equivalent to smashing pudding in your face and being gaslit into thinking it’s good
@@bonjouritsreadyNot really, some people like stuff that you don't. Big whoop
@@notapplicable6985 the ever dropping standards of the Pokémon fanbase is sad 😔
@@bonjouritsready sure ig
I left competitive Pokémon a while ago because it felt tedious in gen 6 and 7.
HOLY SHIT, PREVIOUS GENNRATIONS WERE WAY WORSE TO DO THE LEGAL WAY.
Thanks for doing this fantastic video at the cost of your sanity!
Same, I think Gen 6 was the last time I trained a proper team and it took forever to breed anything aside from 4IV pokemon sent out over wonder trade. I think I had to settle for a 4IV Aggron because trying to get max speed was just not worth it. I spent days trying to breed nearly everything. Then when some of my pokemon shifted tiers or were falling behind, is it worth doing that again for their replacement? And the replacement probably means you need to replace another pokemon for team synergy reasons. Trying to get a proper 4IV Heatran was brutal.
Gen 7 adds Bottle Caps. Wait I need to grind to level 100? I tried just leaving Pheromosa in the Poke Pelago for a while... after a few weeks it's nowhere near level 100 despite putting it back in daily, and by then Pheromosa is banned from OU anyway.
@@Masahane why would you care if Pheromosa is banned from OU if you play on the actual games as Smogon tiers only matter if you play on Pokémon Showdown?
@@V-Jes tbh I probably didn't care but it just made me less motivated
I honestly can't even look down on Tobias anymore after this. Some of us aren't teenagers anymore.
gen 6 was the last time I seriously played competitive pokemon and it was fun, I was getting hidden abilities and breeding for IVs and EV training them, it was all satisfying, since then though I just haven't touched it
This took you, the RNG manip god, dozens of hours.
This is taking me DAYS and I'm just doing the preparations to start!
Well done as always! Love your tutorials.
I also hate the fact that most of TMs are a 1 per game thing.
TMs and Max PPs are items that I end up duping by trading with myself by using 2 emulators and copy-paste the save file over and over.
@@kameib oh good idea
@@kameib At that point you can just load the savefile to pkhex and alter the numbers there.
@@blackknight4152 I'm still scared to use pkhex... I don't want a bad egg or something
Reasonably dozens of hours would also be days. In a typical job (8h/day, 5d/week), this would take at least 1.6 weeks just to create 1 team.
this is sooooo true. This is literally my only gripe about the pokemon franchise, the online and competitive scene is fairly dry. This is honestly the issue with most RPG games, you have to put so many hours to get a comp team.
It’s so badass you did all this work. Nice job dude. I’m glad I found your channel.
One thing that I would suggest when trying to grind early gen battle facilities before having a competitive team is getting yourself a Wobbuffet. It's incredibly good at eliminating troublesome Pokemon against the very basic AI of the 3rd-6th generations. After gen 6 the battle facilities start counter picking you, making this strategy much less consistent
I can make good frontier teams, but I guess I struggle with making good teams without going ALL OUT making like 3 fully evd mons with perfect stats lol
I love how instead of actually improving the AI and their teambuilds, they just get to cheat and pick strategies that beat yours
@@davidburke4101 Yeah, its incredibly obnoxious and makes the lack of a battle Frontier all the more glaring
Pretty sure the AI counter-picking started in Gen 3 already.
There was a time when I brought a Salamence and a Flygon to the Battle Tower. According to the wiki, less than 1/5 of all trainer Pokémon have Ice moves.
At least half of the Pokémons I fought carried some sort of Ice coverage.
There was also a suspiciously high amount of Fire type opponents when I lead with Metagross, much higher than when I lead with anyone not weak to fire. Most of them (conveniently) run White Herb + Overheat.
@@not13cephalopodsinatrenchcoat Never really had that problem when I used Wobbuffet on every battle facility in both gen 3 and 4. Its not like its hard to counter either I just didn't run into many Dark or Ghost types that my other members couldn't handle
To save time on the water stone, there is one in the solaceon ruins, which could have easily been grabbed in the platinum playthrough in much easier time, or even just from trading a shard in emerald.
Yeah I learned later
Great catch! XD
@@imablisy also I think pokémon bank gives you BP according to how many pokémon you have in storage which could help shave off some time bypassing the battle facilities in gen VI and VII
I was about to suggest Celadon for this but then felt shock remembering that HGSS doesn't have the elemental stones for sale and that all the other methods were RNG or time consuming
@@chavaspada this is a gen 4 team though
I like how this video showed up again after the whole vgc drama from this years worlds.
Can’t express how much AAAA UHHGGH AAAA UGGHH AA UUH made me laugh, mate. All the rest of the information slid off my brain thinking of you shaking these two birds in front of Groudon until it turns gold.
I used to hack back in the day, so watching these videos show legit team building down to each step and the total time really puts things in perspective.
I think something that others haven't discussed much is how much rng manip is essentially mandatory; rng manip alone requires one to even know it, let alone do it consistently. I never even knew rng manip in gens 3-5 existed at all until watching your videos with it, and I've played comp since BW. Go figure.
imo, RNG manip isnt legit as you exploit the games coding in a way its not intended. Its "hacking" with extra steps. :P
Watching this video makes me appreciate how later generations make getting into competitive Pokémon a bit easier and less of a time sink.
A bit is a massive understatement, speaking from my experience, in gen 7 you can get a competitive team in a few days to a week with not too much effort (plaza n stuff) assuming you already did the initial leg work (all the synchro and a few good dittos from friend safari) and the more mons you already have to breed with the easier it gets. And then you can toss your better breedjects (4IV babies) in wonder trade which organically evolved into a giant breedject trading pool
In early games, again from my experience, it’s impossible. Like straight up impossible. You can’t play competitive if you don’t hack.
On top of the timer add research and time spent learning this ludicrously specific, niche information. Props to you.
It certainly seems like they learned their lesson in Scarlet and Violet, with how easy it is to access bottle caps and super training, crafting TMs, etc, getting a competitive ready Pokemon is a breeze. Looking back on the older games though, it's crazy seeing just how absurd it really was.
I've really liked breeding competitive teams in the 3ds pokemon games, I don't even really use them much, just was a fun experience.
But in those early days I really don't blame anyone for genning, just at such a disadvantage without it.
I love your style of video because it makes something as mundane and often painfully long as the team creation process super interesting and fun to watch. Gl for future uploads!
Thank you so much!!
I learned so much during this video, that was so informative & fun to watch. Thanks man!
Really well made video. Greet set up in the beginning as well as engaging commentary throughout.
I felt burned off learning competitive in SwSh, but in Gen 4 that seems even worse!
Guess we should stay with Showdown to avoid that pain again lol
I tried it in 6. Those who did it before that or even before 4 are the real OGs.
@@domicraft6341 FR- Like I was interested back in Gen 6, but it took til Gen 8 to be accesible with EVs Pokejobs, IVs Bottle Caps, Unlimited TMs, Accesible TRs, Time Skip glitches, etc.
6 I would say was the best competitively. A good balance of grind and actual substance. I tried in 4 and 5 but never got too far into it, got into it in 6, played meme teams in 7, and saw how easy it was in 8 to play competitive in my eyes so it wasn’t fun.
@@SmidgetTimelineTechX79 Seems easy, but for someone brand new into Competitive, I felt overwhelmed with Gen 8 lol
Almost makes me feel glad I didnt tried back in Gen 4-5 cause it seems way too much work 💀
I was brand new to VGC in Gen 6 and I felt there were enough quality of life improvements to make it accessible. That said, the time investment compared to gen 8 is still pretty high I guess.
Man these videos are amazing. I recently got into rng manipulating in emerald because of you. It's such a cool process. I'm assuming the people saying "it's the same as hacking" have never tried it before. It's way more difficult and time consuming than you make it look. Especially if you're going for near perfect shiny pokemon like you are. Just wanted to let you know that you're doing great work and to thank you for making my dreams of having a legit shiny Gardevior, Milotic, and Ninetales a reality.
This guy wants to fck his Pokémon
Make sure you KEEP using the stuff you're using to help you do this process faster, make these gate keepers lurking in this comments sections Seethe and bleed! I know I will! Just to spite them.
EV training was so simple in gen 1 & 2, all you needed to do was beat 656 Ditto's and you would have near perfect stats.
The motivation for this is crazy, sick vid
I have to thank this channel for introducing me to rng manipulation. I did it in Generation 5 and it was a super interesting thing to do. I really enjoyed learning it.
Dang this was really interesting man! Hopefully in Scarlet and Violet the VGC is more friendly to trainers!
@jokechu Yet it's still a full-time job. Someone who works full-time to survive can't participate in VGC and do well. Not unless all of their free time is spent playing Pokemon. Pokemon has to be the only game they play.
Yeah, it’s not lol
@jokechu Spending hours theorycrafting and practicing with competitive teams makes you a better pokemon player. Spending hours grinding to build your team does nothing but make you better at grinding. The challenges offered are either trivial or entirely unrelated to the nature of competitive pokemon, I could dedicate all my freetime to building a team but that doesnt make me a good pokemon player.
Maybe in the early gens there was some skill to "raising your pokemon" that justified the existence of the grind. Nowadays however its a pure grind, anyone can get the details on how to train up a solid team and they just need to put in time for the sake of "being legit".
Its an arbitrary time sink, end of. Let players spawn in their mons.
@jokechu I'll be honest I don't get your point. We agree the grind is a useless time sink, seems like your just being a pedant to me.
Sure, you never said you were against spawning mons but you wrote two entire comments about how its "not that bad" and "you need to invest lots of time anyway". Sorry I can't read your mind, guess that makes me an illiterate idiot.
@jokechu You have to breed a team before you can even test out if your ideas were good or not. And say they were good. By the to e you're done, the meta shifted and now your team is worthless. All that time amounted to absolutely nothing. And it's all because Game Freak refuses to make something similar to Pokemon Showdown.
Imagine a fighting game where you have to trudge through a eugenics simulator to create a character before you ever get to use it. Multiply that by every other character in the game.
Why design a competitive game that way? What's the point? The creation process isn't helpful in the slightest and it teaches you nothing. It's just busywork for the sake of busywork.
This is just absolutely insane, but I can't thank you enough for making this entertaining and insightful video. Great work!
Imagine doing all that just to realize your team is bad then having to do it all over again
Love these videos, I've only built in showdown so I never knew just how difficult these actually were
Another fantastic video. I genuinely couldn't imagine trying to do this without having to reset, imagine changing teams, or members between nationals and worlds. Even small tweaks like EV spreads would take hours.
All of this is before you can even test out the team. Imagine you spend 60 hours on a team and it doesn't perform good at all. Then you spend another 60 hours on a team that hopefully performs well.
I would like to see a follow up segment where you try to recreate the same team in SwSh and show that it takes just a few hours now
This brings me back to when I grinded PBR as a kid to evolve my Togetic in Soil Silver. I felt like such a badass having a gen 4 Pokemon in Johto.
I loved Soil Silver
I just traded a shiny stone to my game, dusk stone too for my mismagius
great video! I knew already how much of a pain it was to build a team but your commentary was really nice, quite the journey to build a team...
Thanks!! Glad you enjoyed it
I'm glad to see this video doing well, it was really fun watching it, just like the other VGC team-building video you made last month. I appreciate the time & effort you put into making it!
Thank you for the video and for showing all the steps necessary to getting a competitive team legitimately.
The only "tournament" Pokémon I ever got was a Vaporeon in SS and the time it took me to get it ready was absolutely ridiculous. I don't know how much better it got with Gens, but back then it felt like Game Freak did not want people to play competitively. At that point, it becomes "Who can grind the longest."
One aspect you downplayed is how expensive this gets. Needing to have several consoles and cartridges of different games to make your competitive team does not come cheap, especially if the games were new. That stance on hacking is completely understandable. At some point, it's just a waste of time, money and a competitive disadvantage to NOT hack.
Hey big fan! Love your catch ‘em all videos! Yeah, I sorta meant to talk about both how many consoles I needed(I think I briefly mentioned it) and how many days total it took without skipping, but I just kinda glanced passed them.
Yeah, financial gatekeeping in this way is just not okay from them.
@@imablisy If I had to guess, this probably was a game design aspect that just got out of hand without them knowing, considering none of this bullcrap existed back in gen 1/2 you just had to level up your pokemon to the max level allowed and that was it, no Battle frontier grinding, no spinoff games to get more items/moves
@@SoyFelipeCTM ivs existed in some form and ev training was actually a lot worse. Every stat could be maxed so there was no strategy to it and you just had to ko the elite 4 like 70 times
With costs especially it’s even worse now, with these games costing a ton of money nowadays
Your commitment to the craft Is astonishing, thank you for the amazing content
Thanks for explaining everything so thoroughly.
Great video concept and really well executed. Would love to see comparisons across the generations, if even just from a challenge angle
Another amazing video, once again crazy to see just how much time it would take to make a legit competitive team, and that’s with the help of RNG manipulation
Without RNG manip it takes your whole lifetime
This is like going into the forest and trying to build a wooden house without an axe, blindfolded, walking on you hands and actually you are in the desert
Watching you grind all of this shit is pure pain. Thank you for your sacrifice.
Ahh, this takes me back. I trained up my first ever competitive team in Platinum back when it was the newest game!
There's something cozy about grinding out the items, TM's, stats, etc. for the team.
Great vid!
I'm glad newer gens made it easier to actually build a team
for an event we were providing teams to folks around, with a friend we had to get mons and EV them in a week, and it took a couple of trips to the Pokemon League for money, buy vitamins and farm for feathers for non max, non ending 0 EVs, probably some Exp Candies for lv 100 (or the kitchen in USUM) and done
the worst part is restricted mons, but since we were not going for 0Iv speed nor as low as possible atk Iv, it wasn't an issue and by virtue of playing the older games and events, we already had a couple of older gens restricted, but still, a time that could've been devoted to practicing on showdown
Love the dedication!! Well done!😊
Thank you for offering to make RNG manip vids! I wanted to SO bad as a kid but just couldn’t get it right even using the PPRNG program. It was so frustrating! Great video dude.
My favorite part of the video was at 22:22 when he said "It's levelin' time!" and totally leveled up those guys
EV training in Gen 3 is such a pain, because it's a very time consuming activity. I wanted to get all the Battle Frontier Symbols in my playthrough of Pokemon Emerald. So I captured OU Pokemon in Gen 3, Made sure they had good natures and then I EV trained them. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get any Pokemon with Pokerus, so that made the process of EV Training them so much more time consuming. The only thing in Gen 3 that can speed up the process of EV training besides pokerus was of course the Macho Brace, but it only doubles the amount of EVs you get. not nearlt as efficient as the Power Items in Gen 4, which give you plus 5 Evs to a stat. In the end it took me over 20hrs and 3 days to complete EV training before setting out to the Battle Frontier. It took me three days to find a Modest or Timid Natured Latios which was why it took over 3 days and 20hrs. I can't really blame hackers for hacking in the Pokemon they want in gen 3, 4, and 5. Later Generations have made so much easier to build good teams.
I've been playing emerald and was going to dedicate myself to a perfect ived legendary trio, but then I learned synchronize doesn't work on them. I settled for ones with beneficial natures and "better than average" judgement from the stats judge. cause fuck that.
@@irurwurst yeah, I can't blame ya. Some of the pains of Gen 3.
Not gonna lie, I messed up the Latios, so I said fuck it, Salamence instead of Latios
It really was! Back in 2016 when I was a top 100 player in Generation 6 OU, I logged over 1500+ hours into Omega Ruby just breeding and trading for genned stuff from friends to theorycraft the newest, hottest teams. That’s not even factoring in all the hours I sunk on Showdown which may have rivaled that on ORAS.
I was always into Pokemon, and loved the competitive scene. Seeing this video made me feel a lot better about my attitude towards training, it seemed nearly impossible. I figured I just wasn’t built with the effort and confidence to take on such a feat, calculating the time it would take to even get my favorite Pokemon to be perfect, it was so diminishing. Ironic how something mostly all players hoped to achieve but knew they couldn’t can now do within minutes. I’m glad I knew this was too good to be true. Those tournament competitors do not put this much time and dedication into these builds, they have them generated, for sure.
Shout out to all the trainers out there that put their time in. It may be easy now, but the dedication shows in battle, and that’s the difference.
Kk Kiki I look lol
Dear God, the amount of commitment you have to make a video like this is incredible, bro. I learned a lot too. I've done manips in the past in emerald, but I never realized that the paintings could be used like that. Keep up the great work bro👍.
Great video! I started playing competitive pokemon in gen 4 in 2008, and I didn't have the ability to do RNG manipulation or hacking, plus it was way harder to even find good info on the best way to breed for IVs back then. The story I always tell is about the Wailord with perfect special attack and speed that I ran as a lead with choice scarf and water spout. Whenever I fought someone from Smogon on Wifi, I could tell if they had hacked by whether or not my Wailord would OHKO their gengar - only a gengar with perfect HP and special defense could survive water spout, and it was always so discouraging when they would survive with just a few hp left, and I immediately knew it would be an uphill battle for me as all of my pokemon would be weaker than theirs.
It would be interesting to see how long it would take to get a team ready without RNG manipulation - you would obviously have to do what we used to do back then, and settle for the best we could get within a 'reasonable' amount of time (my old copy of Pearl had over 1400 hours on it, and I had a second copy of diamond that I kept strictly to run through and get TMs and held items - not reasonable!).
I see the title and as a comp player
🗿 it really is bro. Even with all the qol stuff now this joint takes hours if lucky and even days or weeks to setup a team.
Would love to see a video where you take a Gen 8 team and show off just how easy it is to get it all set up with the conveniences made in the gen.
Let me know what gen you want to see next here! And share this video with your friends if you enjoyed it!!
Sword & Shield VGC Team for the new season where Mythicals are totally allowed? Maximum games. Limiters off. Full throttle RNG'ing.
2014 Pachirisu Team!
I know that b2w2 have different and inconsistent RNG manipulation compared to b1w1 due to some timer thing, I'd be very interested in seeing how much longer it takes to rng in b2w2 than in b1w1
Sejun Park's 2013 team. If only because of the illegal Magmar.
@@danius88 Actually, the Pachirisu team would be kind of cool because Pachi is a pretty easy Pokemon to raise in general, so it might cut down on the time a little
I would love to see you do the newest games to see just how much faster getting a competitively viable team is now
Get the mon, hyper train it, nature mint it, level it. Good to go. Hyper training alone is almost enough for me to buy a gen 7 title
@@TSfish94 need to level itfirst before hypertraining. Also if you want 0Ivs for speed or attack you'll have to breed
Watching this video was really satisfying with the rng manips, as a new viewer, i loved this video, good job!
This was phenomenal to watch! My only recommendations would have been to migrate one of the gen three Pokémon with a Water Stone and Macho Brace, which are easy to obtain in those games, and also rematching Faulkner’s Swellow with a Thief user nets you a free Flame Orb
Great video, I can only imagine how much additional time the research and planning took. This is why I play showdown, lol
Great video blisy, super entertaining. Perhaps for a future video you could recreate the team that wins worlds this year just for comparison. I’d imagine it would take 1/8th of the time
Thanks again for teaching me how to do all this. Your videos are a blessing.
It makes me happy to see your video abt this is so popular, I watched a shit ton of your tutorials on RNG maniping a few years ago and spent *hours* of my summer vacation on getting a bunch of shinies 😭
Pokémon CP would be so much easier if IVs wouldn't exist... Like you can manually do stuff like teaching attacks, train EVs and even inheriting attacks and getting the right nature can be done by yourself. But getting the right IVs is so much pain.
If gamefreak would just make the pokemon stat changing items easier to come by or earn in the postgame, most of these issues would be fixed.
The main issue is how difficult it is to actually obtain Gamefreak's solutions.
IV bottle caps are hard to find.
Removed Hyper Training for EVs.
Ability capsules don't do hidden abilities.
Nothing in breeding guarantees inherited abilities.
No egg move tutors, post game or otherwise.
Overpriced comp items for BP, hard to accumulate without an already comp ready team and no rental pokemon facility.
Expensive vitamins in post game.
Stat lowering berries hard to come by consistently or farm.
Can't see IVs or EVs without pokemon home subscription and even then dosen't give a numerical value.
Smergol sketching in general.
While I can understand having these in place for the main story, having them remain postgame is unnecessary.
Most people wanting to do comp can either spend weeks of time and a lotta money to make a comp team, or just 30 minutes and pkHex.
That and official comp cards need to be provided by the players, usually means they gotta beat the game again and unlock all items again to have their teams ready for battle.
This has happened a lot in comp, most notably in the mega era when a lot of comp players either didn't complete the game again in their competition carts and thus couldn't mega evolve, didn't find their mega stones or just had to get a replacement thus gimping them of megas, it's no wonder people hack.
Love the thumbnail! Blisy out here making RNG look cool :’)
Thank papa jefe for that one haha
Beautiful video, I can’t wait to watch your gen3 content
Coming soon!
@@imablisy so excited man i fucking love ADV stuff
18:46 very useful info to store away for future use. for the record, you gave me a serious case of PTSD when you mentioned switch training in HGSS...
That Milotic during Palmer’s battle swept through your team. After all this time, I’m still surprised how good it is
Another banger of a video! Conflicting single player RPG with a competitive framework is what always sunk pokémon down. I wish Gen 9 (finally!?) gave us the full sandbox environment for competitive multiplayer battles, but I do not have my hopes up.
If you want to make another one of these (I know, I know😂) I think Sword/Shield is actually interesting. Not sure if it's content for a video, but I see many people turning a blind eye on hacking by saying "bruh, making teams is so easy now, only takes one hour" while it still has the one-per-save legendary issues, a bunch of pokes need to be caught with a 0 IV, including legendaries in the Max Lair, which itself is awful, and there's still battle tower BP grind for items like bottle caps. Overworld encounter RNG probably speeds things by a lot, but not sure if there's a max lair RNG without custom firmware / trading bots and whatnot.
At some points in the video I can feel your frustration when playing HGSS haha! The games are so good, but a lot of interface and game mechanics are so bad, such as the lack of VS Seeker, the time of week based stuff, and even the regressive box system.
Props to Ray for helping sharing the team, although I have played competitive gen 4 back in the day and I have an idea how the team was really made. I just wish pros came more forward about how the game has really been played for the last two decades.
Yeah I am definitely going to tackle SWSH eventually, we will see. Perhaps I’ll do this world winning team :0
I didnt understand like 80% of what happened during the rng manipulation thing but damn it was fun to watch! Great video
Bro awesome video, you deserve more subs!!
Really loving these videos! inspired me to do something like this in my gen 5 games
Awesome stuff! What are you going for?
@@imablisy ray’s 2012 team, he has some of my favourite mons on that team, so not only would it be a fun challenge to do, i get to do it with my favs as well :D
I love these kinds of video’s, love the dedication!
Thank you!!
Without RNG manipulation, it would take a literal LIFETIME to get a shiny legendary with the exact IVs and nature you want.
Edit: not even lifetime. It's just impossible. The odds are almost 220 TRILLION to one that you get all those things perfect.