I have 2, Pan DMR-E100HS machines with DVD Disk record and Hard drive recorders. They were MONSTERS in terms of ability back in the day. I was trying to improve my recordings off of my Pioneer 3070 Laserdisc player. The pioneer has no TBC or modern comb filter. I tried SVHS through the pany, with almost no difference. I was SHOCKED when I tried it through the Composite video input! This went through the Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212. One thing I noticed about the 1212: It REACTED to the other two machines! You have to keep that sucker away from other electronics or it will get (I think) RF interference. With the 1212, I could NOT tell the difference between the source and the recording. I am SO GLAD that I found this channel!! ❤
Thanks for this. I was unaware many DVD recorders had this passthru function. Be interesting to see if something like a full frame TBC like the Datavideo could improve much beyond these methods.
The full frame TBC makes the flow of frames steady and constant. They don’t improve the look of the visual. Here’s a quick overview of it. TBC explained: what is a time base corrector ua-cam.com/video/CPwOv3hUhdA/v-deo.html
Full frame TBCs are said to be more transparent if they are in good shape. They also don’t have some of the downsides of the ES 15 like messing with your luma. I have no personal experience with the DVD pass through method though so IDK what that one is like.
Great video. Are there any benefits to use a Line TBC in addition to a built in TBC (such as on a JVC S7600U) so that there are 2 TBC's when digitizing?
The consensus in the forums from the experts is that the first line TBC is the only one that will fix the waviness issues. So, it is best to use the line TBC option in your SVHS VCR if you have that feature. Adding a DVD recorder to the workflow in passthrough mode won't add any benefit, but will add those side effects (too bright, too dark, etc.). The only exception to that rule is if the tape is very bad and the line TBC in the SVHS VCR is not strong enough to fix it. At that point, I would probably turn off the line TBC in the SVHS VCR and add the ES15 to the workflow.
In the illustration, I showed connecting the VCR to the other devices with a Composite Cable (yellow cable). If one has an S-Video cable (also known as a Y/C cable), one should use that instead. More info here: ua-cam.com/video/McFurc_Uqxc/v-deo.html
@@videocaptureguide I was actually only interested in the way back to the video grabber. The recorder determines the best way to the TBC. But there are also USB2 video grabbers with green LED and large holes that convert S-Video into CVBS down. They are also mono🙄
Hello. Thank you for video. I have a question - i have right now 3 dvd recorders, and one of them, my oldest Daewoo DH 5105K looks like it can work as Frame TBC (not Line TBC), making constant frame rate and better video sync with capture devices and HDMI converters, also better sync with rewinding/FF/pause. Is it possible, that some DVD recorders works as Frame TBC? Any documented one? PS. Love your videos. Got awesome devices, like ES10, whis is perfect for my workflow, and Pioneer DVD-555, which is fine as HDD recorder, but not great as Line TBC
As far as I know, no DVD recorder has a Frame TBC. However, because the Line TBC inside DVD recorders is able to remove waviness, that inadvertendly produces a more stable signal, which reduces many (but not all) dropped frames. So that may be why you might think your Daewood 5105K has a frame TBC. The ideal workflow is: SVHS VCR with built-in LineTBC feature >> Frame TBC device (eg, DataVideo TBC 100) >> Capture device If you don't have an SVHS VCR with built-in LineTBC feature, then the next best workflow is: SVHS VCR >> LineTBC passthrough device (eg, one of the recommended DVD recorders) >> Frame TBC device (eg, DataVideo TBC 100) >> Capture device If you have a Pioneer PRV with a HDD, check out my video on how to extract videos from the HDD directly: ua-cam.com/video/j4sIgQWNHWA/v-deo.html. The quality isn't as good as a very good SD capture device, but it's an interesting alternative.
@@videocaptureguide the recorder i mention, Daewoo, did not fix picture waviness and any other picture issues, but it fixes compatibility with cheap AV2HDMI and some capture cards. It looks like it makes a own video frames within own resoluton and outputs as stable 576@25i PAL, something like putting input video frame within own frame and outputting it
I have the same VCR. It has a built-in line TBC. In another video I did tests to measure the difference in dropped frames with and without a my (weak) frame TBC. I found that while a frame TBC can prevent most dropped frames, Virtual Dub software can deal with in without introducing audio video synchronization problems. What's the difference between Line TBC and Frame TBC? ua-cam.com/video/FrPgVYToJqY/v-deo.html
If you put Panasonic, and then Pioneer, you will get worse image - frames will "jump" vertically, mostly on the moments, where Panasonic "fixes" image. That not the case for every tape, but for great amount. Not reccomrnded using this Also, if you record a BAD tape video on Pioneer by native from Panasonic video output, you can get message about "copy protection".
I have 2, Pan DMR-E100HS machines with DVD Disk record and Hard drive recorders. They were MONSTERS in terms of ability back in the day. I was trying to improve my recordings off of my Pioneer 3070 Laserdisc player. The pioneer has no TBC or modern comb filter. I tried SVHS through the pany, with almost no difference. I was SHOCKED when I tried it through the Composite video input! This went through the Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212. One thing I noticed about the 1212: It REACTED to the other two machines! You have to keep that sucker away from other electronics or it will get (I think) RF interference. With the 1212, I could NOT tell the difference between the source and the recording. I am SO GLAD that I found this channel!! ❤
Thanks for this. I was unaware many DVD recorders had this passthru function. Be interesting to see if something like a full frame TBC like the Datavideo could improve much beyond these methods.
The full frame TBC makes the flow of frames steady and constant. They don’t improve the look of the visual. Here’s a quick overview of it.
TBC explained: what is a time base corrector
ua-cam.com/video/CPwOv3hUhdA/v-deo.html
Full frame TBCs are said to be more transparent if they are in good shape. They also don’t have some of the downsides of the ES 15 like messing with your luma. I have no personal experience with the DVD pass through method though so IDK what that one is like.
Great video. Are there any benefits to use a Line TBC in addition to a built in TBC (such as on a JVC S7600U) so that there are 2 TBC's when digitizing?
The consensus in the forums from the experts is that the first line TBC is the only one that will fix the waviness issues. So, it is best to use the line TBC option in your SVHS VCR if you have that feature. Adding a DVD recorder to the workflow in passthrough mode won't add any benefit, but will add those side effects (too bright, too dark, etc.). The only exception to that rule is if the tape is very bad and the line TBC in the SVHS VCR is not strong enough to fix it. At that point, I would probably turn off the line TBC in the SVHS VCR and add the ES15 to the workflow.
@ thanks
On the way back from the TBC you naturally take S-Video. Was that a FUNAI TBC test ?
In the illustration, I showed connecting the VCR to the other devices with a Composite Cable (yellow cable). If one has an S-Video cable (also known as a Y/C cable), one should use that instead. More info here: ua-cam.com/video/McFurc_Uqxc/v-deo.html
@@videocaptureguide I was actually only interested in the way back to the video grabber. The recorder determines the best way to the TBC. But there are also USB2 video grabbers with green LED and large holes that convert S-Video into CVBS down. They are also mono🙄
Hello. Thank you for video. I have a question - i have right now 3 dvd recorders, and one of them, my oldest Daewoo DH 5105K looks like it can work as Frame TBC (not Line TBC), making constant frame rate and better video sync with capture devices and HDMI converters, also better sync with rewinding/FF/pause. Is it possible, that some DVD recorders works as Frame TBC? Any documented one?
PS. Love your videos. Got awesome devices, like ES10, whis is perfect for my workflow, and Pioneer DVD-555, which is fine as HDD recorder, but not great as Line TBC
As far as I know, no DVD recorder has a Frame TBC. However, because the Line TBC inside DVD recorders is able to remove waviness, that inadvertendly produces a more stable signal, which reduces many (but not all) dropped frames. So that may be why you might think your Daewood 5105K has a frame TBC.
The ideal workflow is: SVHS VCR with built-in LineTBC feature >> Frame TBC device (eg, DataVideo TBC 100) >> Capture device
If you don't have an SVHS VCR with built-in LineTBC feature, then the next best workflow is: SVHS VCR >> LineTBC passthrough device (eg, one of the recommended DVD recorders) >> Frame TBC device (eg, DataVideo TBC 100) >> Capture device
If you have a Pioneer PRV with a HDD, check out my video on how to extract videos from the HDD directly: ua-cam.com/video/j4sIgQWNHWA/v-deo.html. The quality isn't as good as a very good SD capture device, but it's an interesting alternative.
@@videocaptureguide the recorder i mention, Daewoo, did not fix picture waviness and any other picture issues, but it fixes compatibility with cheap AV2HDMI and some capture cards. It looks like it makes a own video frames within own resoluton and outputs as stable 576@25i PAL, something like putting input video frame within own frame and outputting it
is it ok if i have jvc sr 30 only without having frame tbc
I'm not sure which model that is. Is that the full model number, SR30?
@videocaptureguide sr-vs30 sorry
I have the same VCR. It has a built-in line TBC. In another video I did tests to measure the difference in dropped frames with and without a my (weak) frame TBC. I found that while a frame TBC can prevent most dropped frames, Virtual Dub software can deal with in without introducing audio video synchronization problems.
What's the difference between Line TBC and Frame TBC?
ua-cam.com/video/FrPgVYToJqY/v-deo.html
Would a pass through using the Pioneer then into the Panasonic work or vice versa?
I've got 2 Panasonic ES10's never used them as pass throughs yet.
I have read that only the first line TBC will have an improvement effect. Any other line TBC in the workflow will add an unnecessary step.
That would be UNHOLY.😢
If you put Panasonic, and then Pioneer, you will get worse image - frames will "jump" vertically, mostly on the moments, where Panasonic "fixes" image. That not the case for every tape, but for great amount. Not reccomrnded using this
Also, if you record a BAD tape video on Pioneer by native from Panasonic video output, you can get message about "copy protection".