Deserved an Emmy; glad to have had a chance to tell her so, too. She's one of the main reason I stopped watching the show in the middle of Season 3; it was getting to be too much. As in, geniunely-disturbed-the-day-after-watching-an-episode much. That was some high-end television.
@@alyssiagibbs8147 I believe she was mortal, probably a prophet, or reincarnated, or a direct bloodline relative, from one of the actual descendants of Kobol. Just like the Final Five were destined survive the Holocaust as human survivors, unaware of their programming. Lt Kara Thrace was not an angel until she died. The same way Baltar's Caprica Six was not an angel until she died. I don't believe the actual individual came back as an angel, only that "the Fates" used their likenesses to assist humanity in surviving. Kara needed to grow, mature, before any part of her consciousness could survive. In my opinion, one of her biggest defining moments was accepting Kat as the new Hotshot. Also, the moment she called out all of the call signs of the pilots who were killed. In those moments, she admitted her own mortality, to herself. Her Anders storyline always felt forced to me as she had more of a natural connection to Lee. The main characters were written so well, the show dynamic will be hard to duplicate. RD Moore took a short lived Sci Fi favorite and turned it into a space opera.
@@alyssiagibbs8147 she's not, she was human at first not an angel lmao. she only became one after her death where her memories were imprinted into one. just as six and baltar
In Battlestar Galactica Season 3 episode "Maelstrom", Kara Thrace vanishes mysteriously along with her Viper within a violent maelstrom around a gas giant planet. In the final scene before Kara disappears into the maelstrom, it's clear that even if she were to somehow survive, her Viper is starting to break up and will not make it back to Galactica intact. When Kara miraculously returns to Galactica several months later, she is piloting an undamaged Viper and claims she has been to Earth, but has no recollection of the months during which she had been missing. In the cockpit of her Viper a homing beacon flashes, presumably indicating the location of Earth. Galactica tracks the signal to a dead planet that had been nuked 2000 years earlier, where Kara finds a wrecked Viper containing her own corpse. Galactica subsequently discovers a verdant planet indentified as a prehistoric version of our own Earth, where Kara once again vanishes without a trace. Whether Kara was a human, a Cylon, a ghost, or an angel is one of numerous puzzles left unexplained in the series finale. Here is a theory that explains Kara Thrace's resurrection without resorting to supernatural intervention. It relies on relativistic time travel via wormhole, a not unreasonable conjecture in a universe where instantaneous Faster Than Light physics are employed for routine space travel. 1. After Kara vanishes into the maelstrom, she encounters a spacetime wormhole and blacks out as it transports her to a decaying orbit around nuked Earth. After recovering conciousness, she visually identifies the planet while her ship records its coordinates, activating its homing beacon. She then flies back through the wormhole, not realizing that months of time have relativistically elapsed during her return flight. 2. Galactica tracks down the nuked planet via the homing beacon, and there Kara discovers a wrecked Viper. In the Viper's cockpit she discovers a corpse and removes a charred copy of her own dogtags from around its neck. This is the corpse of her future self, who is destined to fly once more into the maelstrom. The wormhole will then hurl her back in time to crash on the nuked planet, a few months before it is tracked down by Galactica. 3. Kara gives her corpse's charred dogtags to Baltar on Galactica. Months later, Galactica discovers verdant Earth, and the colonists set about decomissioning their spacecraft. Kara realises that it is time for her to return to the maelstrom in her Viper and fulfill her destiny. 4. Kara uses the wormhole to travel back in time to rendevous with her past self in a decaying orbit around nuked Earth. At that point in time, her past self has blacked out, her Viper has suffered irreparable damage, and it is doomed to eventually crash into the planet. To prevent that fate from happening to past-Kara, future-Kara docks with the disabled Viper, drags unconscious past-Kara out of that ship and exchanges Vipers with her, leaving past-Kara to regain consciousness later in the undamaged Viper and discover nuked Earth. After past-Kara returns to Galactica through the wormhole, future-Kara rides the disabled Viper down to crash into the planet. It is only later that past-Kara will reconstruct what happened and recognize that she is destined to become her own guardian angel.
I like the idea. But from memory (a decade ago now), the viper she returned in that was miraculously "renewed" was actually THE one she flew into the maelstrom the 1st time; same transponder/ID etc. Your variant has her flying a newer/newish ship back to save her old self, not THE same ship (impossible to recover or restore)
@@Masheeable - Note that the crew member who examined the Viper Kara returned in from the maelstrom was Tyrol, who at that point had not yet been revealed as one of the Final Five Cylons. If we stick with a non-supernatural explanation of Kara's resurrection, it's far easier to imagine Tyrol unconciously falsifying his report than to conjure up a miraculous restoration of Kara's original Viper.
You are so good at story telling that Disney Marvel will never hire you. You make to much sense and they can't keep doing re-shoots to launder all the money at their disposal
Full points for your excellent theorizing. Yeah, time travel would allow for an ancient decayed viper and corpse which are identical (philosophically as in the same single craft and pilot) to exist simultaneously in the same universe. Your explanation satisfies Occam's razor I suppose. There are some events (or lack thereof) in the finale which do raise some questions; the one off the top of my head is that Kara apparently vanishes in the middle of a conversation with Lee when the best thing for your theory would have been for her to take off in her Viper. I suppose the 'truth', if there is such, would involve both the time travel and the law-stretching abilities of the divine, which I suppose would force some form of supernatural intervention which I know you are trying to avoid. Cheers.
@@rebusd - The simplest explanation for Kara's "disappearance" in the finale is that it was her final prank on Lee, leaving him confused up to the very end. At that point Kara has realized it's time for her to depart for her rendezvous with her own fate, and that it's futile to tell Lee the truth as his dogged skepticism will never allow him to believe it. So why not leave him with the enduring mystery of her resurrection to keep him company?
While not explained, the "angels" do have a foundation in the original series as Seraphs. Kara's fate is pretty much a take on the original Starbuck's.
Yes which also includes Head Six & Head Gaius & also their appearance at the end of the series thousands of years later to modern-day Earth. All of this of course harkens to the Mormon/Christian theology that was intentional in BSG by Glen. Even "gods" plural is part of LDS theology. A lot of twists for the homage of the classic series. 12/04/24
I find it fascinating that the cylons are religious, and it becomes apparent through very strange incidents that some outside force is guiding this story, or at least intervening in certain events. Human and Cylon becoming the same race was perhaps the goal? Or each repeating of the story is some kind of supernaturally inspired evolutionary guidance? I'm not sure but it makes a very interesting story.
The lighting choice in the hallway, after the bathroom as she enters Anders control room has to be intentional. While Starbuck may not believe she is an Angel it is, (IMHO) a signal to the audience she is in fact one.
On the small scale yes, on the large scale no. The nature of the deities in the Battlestar universe is interesting to say the least. The hybrids and the prophets were connected to them somehow, but how and to what purpose remained a mystery.
Don't you need messengers and angels only if there *is* free will? If there's no free will, people and cylons just do what they're supposed to automatically, without a need for external influences. The will is the thing being influenced...
She died. They don't explain how her viper ended up on Earth, but she crashed there. Then, she came back as an angel, like Head Six, except everyone could see her.
Yeah she died and came back but it's unclear if she was an angel or some sort of spirit. Probably the latter because she wasn't aware of any "divine status" and didn't exhibit any of the controls we see from head Six and Baltar. Also yes her ship, both destroyed and new, aren't explained at all. I think the only practical explanation would be if the maelstrom was actually a wormhole and none of the smart people in the fleet figured that out.
I'd love a new miniseries, based on our near future, where humanity creates mechanical Cylons and it all happens again. They could link it to the past series in some way, like having the angels come back. You could even have a character frozen in time in some way come forward. Apart from that I always had a hard time believing that all of humanity went all 'I can go without a warm shower and modern medicine to live like tribals on earth' in the final episode, or that every single survivalist on every colony perished and the only humans alive went sticks and stones on earth. Humanity must have in some way continued on in another part of the galaxy apart from earth 2.
I mean they went walking off into the hills with designer clothes, a knapsack, no weapons (in wild Africa), and no training. They would have gone cannibal faster than the Donner party planning Christmas dinner, or been eaten by saber-toothed cats and Dire Wolves. Hell maybe that's the show: why humanity didn't get the kick start it should have when the advanced people settled earth because their colony failed miserably, again.
Most of the people living in the fleet were on ships not designed for long term habitation. I imagine after a few years living in a glorified closet in a heavy industrial ship with no creature comforts surviving on only processed algae.. the idea of living on a real planet but only with the clothes on your back is still a no brainer.
@@Yarpon Colonial One and many other ships had a demonstrated ability to land. I just find it hard to believe they wouldn't have tried to colonize the planet like New Caprica and all instead opted for a cult-like return to a primitive nature. With kids in the fleet I know I personally would want a proper sickbay if one broke a leg or needed an appendectomy, instead of worrying if they would perish because I didn't have access to medical equipment like a surgical suite.
I'd like them to reboot the series. As much as I loved it, the last season was rushed. I'd like an unrushed season, and, who knows? Maybe a longer series.
At this point in the series I had lost interest in the story, and just kept watching out of habit. The acting and direction remained solid to the end, but the characters started to feel less like people with whom I could empathize and more like plot devices for advancing the narrative to a conclusion I ultimately found unsatisfying.
Battlestar Galactica was always a mix of sci-fi/supernatural. Science and faith. It just moved further into the supernatural genre in season four. Personally, I thought season four was great, the only thing wrong with season four was that it was the final season.
@@MsEdgely Lots of religious and philosophical overtones. It wasn't just good guess shooting bad guys, make a cheesy joke and pat each other on the back at the end of the episode.
This series was the best thing ever UNTIL the whole 'space rust' sub-plot onward. And then the finale completely blew chunks. I know they were trying to be 'edgy' with the ending, but it didn't work at all. With the colonists being constantly on the edge extermination for the whole series, the least they could've done is give us a feel-good ending with a fleet of warships from Earth flying in to save the day or something...
Good job, Gaius. As a scientist you're handed a set of tags with blood on them, that can be analyzed for DNA, and you wipe it off on a towel.
Katee Sackhoff killed it in every scene of this series. She's so underrated.
Love how she goes from “angel of light” to “angel of darkness” immediately after saying “I’m not an angel” @ 2:06
Deserved an Emmy; glad to have had a chance to tell her so, too. She's one of the main reason I stopped watching the show in the middle of Season 3; it was getting to be too much. As in, geniunely-disturbed-the-day-after-watching-an-episode much. That was some high-end television.
Underrated?
Have you seen her in Longmire? She killed it.
Remember when everyone was mad she took over a male role?
I actually met Katee Sackhoff at last years Megacon and told her what a great job she did with this character
The fact that she knows she is not the real Starbuck. But feels like the real Starbuck. And makes it a believable thing.
well she technically still is the real kara, she's an angel and always has been, mortality doesn't work for her the same way it works for us
@@alyssiagibbs8147 I believe she was mortal, probably a prophet, or reincarnated, or a direct bloodline relative, from one of the actual descendants of Kobol. Just like the Final Five were destined survive the Holocaust as human survivors, unaware of their programming.
Lt Kara Thrace was not an angel until she died. The same way Baltar's Caprica Six was not an angel until she died. I don't believe the actual individual came back as an angel, only that "the Fates" used their likenesses to assist humanity in surviving.
Kara needed to grow, mature, before any part of her consciousness could survive. In my opinion, one of her biggest defining moments was accepting Kat as the new Hotshot. Also, the moment she called out all of the call signs of the pilots who were killed. In those moments, she admitted her own mortality, to herself.
Her Anders storyline always felt forced to me as she had more of a natural connection to Lee. The main characters were written so well, the show dynamic will be hard to duplicate. RD Moore took a short lived Sci Fi favorite and turned it into a space opera.
@@bobastu I am in the angel camp. She jumps to the exact coordinates of Earth and a few days later she disappears. 🤔
@Boba Stu The final five lived as normal humans unaware of what they were until the revelation came. It's very likely that Kara was the same.
@@alyssiagibbs8147 she's not, she was human at first not an angel lmao. she only became one after her death where her memories were imprinted into one. just as six and baltar
In Battlestar Galactica Season 3 episode "Maelstrom", Kara Thrace vanishes mysteriously along with her Viper within a violent maelstrom around a gas giant planet. In the final scene before Kara disappears into the maelstrom, it's clear that even if she were to somehow survive, her Viper is starting to break up and will not make it back to Galactica intact.
When Kara miraculously returns to Galactica several months later, she is piloting an undamaged Viper and claims she has been to Earth, but has no recollection of the months during which she had been missing. In the cockpit of her Viper a homing beacon flashes, presumably indicating the location of Earth. Galactica tracks the signal to a dead planet that had been nuked 2000 years earlier, where Kara finds a wrecked Viper containing her own corpse.
Galactica subsequently discovers a verdant planet indentified as a prehistoric version of our own Earth, where Kara once again vanishes without a trace. Whether Kara was a human, a Cylon, a ghost, or an angel is one of numerous puzzles left unexplained in the series finale.
Here is a theory that explains Kara Thrace's resurrection without resorting to supernatural intervention. It relies on relativistic time travel via wormhole, a not unreasonable conjecture in a universe where instantaneous Faster Than Light physics are employed for routine space travel.
1. After Kara vanishes into the maelstrom, she encounters a spacetime wormhole and blacks out as it transports her to a decaying orbit around nuked Earth. After recovering conciousness, she visually identifies the planet while her ship records its coordinates, activating its homing beacon. She then flies back through the wormhole, not realizing that months of time have relativistically elapsed during her return flight.
2. Galactica tracks down the nuked planet via the homing beacon, and there Kara discovers a wrecked Viper. In the Viper's cockpit she discovers a corpse and removes a charred copy of her own dogtags from around its neck. This is the corpse of her future self, who is destined to fly once more into the maelstrom. The wormhole will then hurl her back in time to crash on the nuked planet, a few months before it is tracked down by Galactica.
3. Kara gives her corpse's charred dogtags to Baltar on Galactica. Months later, Galactica discovers verdant Earth, and the colonists set about decomissioning their spacecraft. Kara realises that it is time for her to return to the maelstrom in her Viper and fulfill her destiny.
4. Kara uses the wormhole to travel back in time to rendevous with her past self in a decaying orbit around nuked Earth. At that point in time, her past self has blacked out, her Viper has suffered irreparable damage, and it is doomed to eventually crash into the planet. To prevent that fate from happening to past-Kara, future-Kara docks with the disabled Viper, drags unconscious past-Kara out of that ship and exchanges Vipers with her, leaving past-Kara to regain consciousness later in the undamaged Viper and discover nuked Earth. After past-Kara returns to Galactica through the wormhole, future-Kara rides the disabled Viper down to crash into the planet. It is only later that past-Kara will reconstruct what happened and recognize that she is destined to become her own guardian angel.
I like the idea. But from memory (a decade ago now), the viper she returned in that was miraculously "renewed" was actually THE one she flew into the maelstrom the 1st time; same transponder/ID etc. Your variant has her flying a newer/newish ship back to save her old self, not THE same ship (impossible to recover or restore)
@@Masheeable - Note that the crew member who examined the Viper Kara returned in from the maelstrom was Tyrol, who at that point had not yet been revealed as one of the Final Five Cylons. If we stick with a non-supernatural explanation of Kara's resurrection, it's far easier to imagine Tyrol unconciously falsifying his report than to conjure up a miraculous restoration of Kara's original Viper.
You are so good at story telling that Disney Marvel will never hire you. You make to much sense and they can't keep doing re-shoots to launder all the money at their disposal
Full points for your excellent theorizing. Yeah, time travel would allow for an ancient decayed viper and corpse which are identical (philosophically as in the same single craft and pilot) to exist simultaneously in the same universe. Your explanation satisfies Occam's razor I suppose. There are some events (or lack thereof) in the finale which do raise some questions; the one off the top of my head is that Kara apparently vanishes in the middle of a conversation with Lee when the best thing for your theory would have been for her to take off in her Viper. I suppose the 'truth', if there is such, would involve both the time travel and the law-stretching abilities of the divine, which I suppose would force some form of supernatural intervention which I know you are trying to avoid. Cheers.
@@rebusd - The simplest explanation for Kara's "disappearance" in the finale is that it was her final prank on Lee, leaving him confused up to the very end. At that point Kara has realized it's time for her to depart for her rendezvous with her own fate, and that it's futile to tell Lee the truth as his dogged skepticism will never allow him to believe it. So why not leave him with the enduring mystery of her resurrection to keep him company?
Best show ever
While not explained, the "angels" do have a foundation in the original series as Seraphs. Kara's fate is pretty much a take on the original Starbuck's.
Yes which also includes Head Six & Head Gaius & also their appearance at the end of the series thousands of years later to modern-day Earth. All of this of course harkens to the Mormon/Christian theology that was intentional in BSG by Glen. Even "gods" plural is part of LDS theology. A lot of twists for the homage of the classic series.
12/04/24
Haha, Six has the best expressions here.
mannnn I was not mature enough to fully appreciate this show when it first aired.
You maybe late to the party, but the fun still moving on
Unimpressed Baltar is the best Baltar.
Holy frack! I think I understand it now!
Spoiler Alert!
Epilogue (150,000 years later):
"You know it doesn't like that name"
We approve this message.
I find it fascinating that the cylons are religious, and it becomes apparent through very strange incidents that some outside force is guiding this story, or at least intervening in certain events. Human and Cylon becoming the same race was perhaps the goal? Or each repeating of the story is some kind of supernaturally inspired evolutionary guidance? I'm not sure but it makes a very interesting story.
When she returned she was in a brand new modern spotless viper and everyone new she was a cylon
The lighting choice in the hallway, after the bathroom as she enters Anders control room has to be intentional. While Starbuck may not believe she is an Angel it is, (IMHO) a signal to the audience she is in fact one.
That woke him up.
You are tapped by the gods. For a mission to lead humanity to a new start, to end all this mess(12 colonies, cylon Civil War)
BSG ❤
Was there free will in the BSG universe? With 2 messengers and 1 angel guiding humans & cylons towards a path..... where's the free will
That is the question, isn't it?
all of this has happened before and will happen again
On the small scale yes, on the large scale no. The nature of the deities in the Battlestar universe is interesting to say the least.
The hybrids and the prophets were connected to them somehow, but how and to what purpose remained a mystery.
Don't you need messengers and angels only if there *is* free will? If there's no free will, people and cylons just do what they're supposed to automatically, without a need for external influences. The will is the thing being influenced...
If there is no free will, why would there be a need for a Message much less messengers?
Still dont get wtf happen to Starbuck
She died. They don't explain how her viper ended up on Earth, but she crashed there. Then, she came back as an angel, like Head Six, except everyone could see her.
Yeah she died and came back but it's unclear if she was an angel or some sort of spirit. Probably the latter because she wasn't aware of any "divine status" and didn't exhibit any of the controls we see from head Six and Baltar. Also yes her ship, both destroyed and new, aren't explained at all. I think the only practical explanation would be if the maelstrom was actually a wormhole and none of the smart people in the fleet figured that out.
SPOILER:
but she accually is an angel ....
which writer only previously wrote soap operas?
I'd love a new miniseries, based on our near future, where humanity creates mechanical Cylons and it all happens again. They could link it to the past series in some way, like having the angels come back. You could even have a character frozen in time in some way come forward. Apart from that I always had a hard time believing that all of humanity went all 'I can go without a warm shower and modern medicine to live like tribals on earth' in the final episode, or that every single survivalist on every colony perished and the only humans alive went sticks and stones on earth. Humanity must have in some way continued on in another part of the galaxy apart from earth 2.
I mean they went walking off into the hills with designer clothes, a knapsack, no weapons (in wild Africa), and no training. They would have gone cannibal faster than the Donner party planning Christmas dinner, or been eaten by saber-toothed cats and Dire Wolves. Hell maybe that's the show: why humanity didn't get the kick start it should have when the advanced people settled earth because their colony failed miserably, again.
Most of the people living in the fleet were on ships not designed for long term habitation. I imagine after a few years living in a glorified closet in a heavy industrial ship with no creature comforts surviving on only processed algae.. the idea of living on a real planet but only with the clothes on your back is still a no brainer.
@@Yarpon Colonial One and many other ships had a demonstrated ability to land. I just find it hard to believe they wouldn't have tried to colonize the planet like New Caprica and all instead opted for a cult-like return to a primitive nature. With kids in the fleet I know I personally would want a proper sickbay if one broke a leg or needed an appendectomy, instead of worrying if they would perish because I didn't have access to medical equipment like a surgical suite.
I'd like them to reboot the series. As much as I loved it, the last season was rushed. I'd like an unrushed season, and, who knows? Maybe a longer series.
I always think Knight Rider is the continuation of Battlestar Galactica because of K.I.T.T. and K.A.R.R.
At this point in the series I had lost interest in the story, and just kept watching out of habit. The acting and direction remained solid to the end, but the characters started to feel less like people with whom I could empathize and more like plot devices for advancing the narrative to a conclusion I ultimately found unsatisfying.
Never saw this because the writers did something impressive. The show did an FTL jump over the Shark into crazy land.
It probably would have gone over your head anyway
They jumped the shark starting from season 4. It could have been the best series ever, but ended up taking the route of Lost.
Battlestar Galactica was always a mix of sci-fi/supernatural. Science and faith. It just moved further into the supernatural genre in season four. Personally, I thought season four was great, the only thing wrong with season four was that it was the final season.
@@MsEdgely Lots of religious and philosophical overtones. It wasn't just good guess shooting bad guys, make a cheesy joke and pat each other on the back at the end of the episode.
This series was the best thing ever UNTIL the whole 'space rust' sub-plot onward. And then the finale completely blew chunks. I know they were trying to be 'edgy' with the ending, but it didn't work at all. With the colonists being constantly on the edge extermination for the whole series, the least they could've done is give us a feel-good ending with a fleet of warships from Earth flying in to save the day or something...
The ending absolutely ruined it for me. I never watched any of the spin off series because of it.
The final episode was perfect. It was everything leading up to it that was garbage.
The ending sucked
@@GetterRay Yeah, I thought the Enterprise along with the rest of the Federation's fleet flying in to save the colonists was perfect too.
It slowly got worse as the seasons progressed
@@tempest411Wrong show fella.