Two years later, this is exactly what I was looking for. When I searched on Google for a comparison of these, your video was the first link. I about pooped my pants in excitement! Thank you!
Hi there. Since I did this video, there is a new flattening bit that is very good and the cutters are much cheaper. I have not tried it on wood yet, but it cuts aluminum beautifully and everyone else really likes it on wood too. You might want to consider that one, its called the slab slayer. ua-cam.com/video/F2N1eoFUMyM/v-deo.html
High value video for me. I just saw the bits with the extra carbide bits on the bottom and it was intriguing but after seeing your experience with the 2251 and 2263 I would definitely go with the 2263. Thanks!
Hi Jim, we have the flat bottom 4 cutter bit in my shop and we removed the bottom 2 cutters and just use the side cutters because of the same reason, gumming up and causing lots of tear out, works quite well with just the 2 , you can use it this way to do all the rough passes and finish with the more expensive cutter rc2263, thanks for all the great content. Mark, Vancouver ,British Columbia Canada
Hey Jim, this was the best review for me. I was agonizing over a few things. I have the smaller Amana that works okay on my 2.2KW CNC. I’m currently upgrading to a real one and wasn’t sure if I was going to stick with it. I saw a lot of reviews for the other type singing the praises, but this sealed it for me and even talked me into going with a 7.5kw instead of the 4.5x. Thanks so much!
Excellent info! I was struggling to find the distinctions between these bits, and your video nailed it. As I review options, that 2263 is indeed a big bit, with a 2.75" diameter. It appears that the 2255 is the same design, only smaller with a 2" diameter. Having a smaller router than yours, I think I'll give that a go. I'm typically flattening white oak, so the smaller bit should plow through that a little more easily.
Ya, they make a few different sizes (one even bigger than mine with a 3/4" shank too) with this design, so you can size to your router. I think they all use the same carbide cutters, they just have different diameters and number of cutters.
Thanks for the video. Lots of good information. For what its worth, prefer the raster tool path and run the bit over the end, then the bit never takes at 100%
agreed, there are several ways to make a toolpath that avoids the full load cut. You can come in from the side as you mention, or do a ramp move on a pocket toolpath. Just wanted to mention it because it can cause a little panic when your spindle stalls :-)
Where can I get one of those white fuzzy covers you have on the spindle. I use the same bit and like it. I like the bevel you get if carving out a tray or bowl
Great review and explanation. I was going to get a bit that diameter, but don’t know how to get the Z with the touch plate. Do you have a work-around or a different touch plate.
The height setting is not that important for planing anyway. I just jog around the slab I'm planing to find the highest point on the whole peice, then I jog Z down to just touch the top and manually set the Z height in Mach4. I usually just use a pocketing toolpath that has one depth of cut and then I will reset Z lower between each run and I just quite when I've planed down to fresh wood across the whole slab. I will also stick around so that when it has cut off the peaks and is cutting through air in other parts I can speed up the machining speed percentage in mack4 so it gets to the next part where it is hitting wood again sooner, then slow it back down to the normal feedrate.
Very good technical information I could not find on other CNC videos, thanks for sharing. This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but I'm in the market for an Avid CNC router and plan on doing similar work to you (river tables etc), have you found the 4x4 CNC to be adequate with respect to material size as opposed to the 4x8?
Hi Stan, I don't have room for a 4x8 in my garage, but I sure wish I did. That said, Vectric and other CAD programs will let you break up the job in multiple parts to let you slide a larger workpiece through. The bed size doesn't affect the cost much so l would definitely go with the bigger one if your shop has the space, especially if you are going to do river tables.
Awesome video! Liked and Subscribed! I was looking at the 2267 but after seeing your video I'm leaning to the 2263 because of the diameter. I'm worried about the 19,000 vs 22,000 Max RPM ratings... I have a Dewault DW618 with a 8000-24500/min (RPM). Should I be concerned with a Router sled? I'm totally new to this and appreciate any help!
I would take a look at the Slab Slayer bit as well. I did a video on that recently. It has much cheaper carbide inserts, and it is 2.5" in diameter which woudl be a little better for that router. I haven't tried this bit on wood, but it cuts aluminum great 🙂 ua-cam.com/video/F2N1eoFUMyM/v-deo.html
I don't have a thickness planer or a jointer and no budget. So, I plan to use it fulltime for thicknessing and jointing rough lumber. How long will it last? I am concerned about needing to buy bits frequently. Thank you.
Hi Henry, I think using a router makes sense for large slabs that are too heavy, or won't fit in a planer, but for smaller stock, a CNC machine (or a router sled) are extremely inefficient ways to plane and joint regular dimensional lumber. You can buy a used desktop planer for less money than this bit usually. The tips on these are fairly expensive too (>$20 each). However, to answer your question, I can mill several big slabs on one set of bit tips before having to rotate them to another corner.
I'm looking at the bigger version 5 wing RC-2259 and wondering about what your speeds and feeds are? Doesn't look like it's moving particularly fast. The bit above recommends 400 ipm at 1/8" doc at 12k rpms.
Hi Peter, It really depends on the HP you have on your spindle. The spindle in this video is my old 3hp one. That would cut about 0.100" at 100ipm in Mesquite and epoxy. I was probably running around 16000 rpm. With my upgrade to the 4hp spindle I can cut deeper or run faster for sure. You do need to maintain some margin because these spindles are constant torque, so if you hit a tough spot and the spindle slows down, you lose hp proportional to rpm and it will bog down and stop very quickly. The RC-2259 is a huge bit with a 3/4" shank so if you have an AVID machine you would need the 8.8hp spindle so that you have the ER32 collet, and frankly you'll need that much HP anyway. I don't know if you will hit 400ipm at that speed in stuff like Mesquite, but you probably will in most woods. If you are doing epoxy tables, you may find that cutting too fast will cause too much epoxy chipping. This bit is pretty good in epoxy, but if the epoxy is very hard (like cured for a couple weeks) it can tend to chip. In that case you want to use very fresh cutters, and run a light final pass. Having 5 cutters will keep the size of the bite down as well which should help to reduce chipping.
@@JNWoodworks - thanks - I do not have an AVID machine but it is a 6hp spindle with ER32. The speeds and feeds for that bit show 200 ipm at 12k rpm for 1/4" doc per pass or 400 ipm for 1/8". What was your step over for you bit? I think Amana recommends 50%, which is still just over 1 5/8". Good tip about the thin final pass in epoxy. Currently I have about 100 - 150 black walnut and hard maple live edge slabs to flatten before I can look at epoxy. I'm trying to speed up the flattening as much as I can. I will sell most as flattened and sanded slabs and keep some nice ones for epoxy tables. Cheers Peter.
@@petershupe3460 You will get close to that speed on maple and walnut I think. Watch out for knots on the first couple boards to see if its going to slow down at that speed and DOC. I run a 60% stepover on this bit. I also use a rastering type toolpath and make sure it starts outside the board and works in. If you use an offset toolpath or any that allows it to plunge into the wood, it is cutting on both the leading and trailing cutters for the first diameter of the bit travel, and that is where you can stall the spindle easily. Also, these bits are horrible to try and catch dust with because the large diameter and chip size blows the dust out so fast, it goes right through the brush bristles. It works good to make a dust boot with rubber strips instead of brush to stop the chips a little better. Or just reenforce the bristles with something like duct tape on the outside (takes some experimentation).
If you have a large router (like 3 hp), and the sled is pretty solid and holds the router well it would probably work. A nice sled with linear bearings or something similar.
FWIW, Woodpeckers themselves recommended the one that is just 1/4 inch smaller than the 2263 (but the same trim-cutter design) with a 3HP router, but I see no reason that this very slightly larger one wouldn't do just as well.
@@OFFICIALUND I agree, they make a few sizes of the same basic cutter design, I think they will all work well. It mostly depends on how much money you want to spend, and how much horsepower you have to spin it. The. Biggest one has a 3/4" shank too.
Hi Nhan, I think this kind of bit is one of the best. If you look at the two I compared, one has a lot of flat cutter surface touching the workpiece so it tends to get hot and burn. The rc2263 just cuts at the tip and seems to cut cleaner. They make several sizes of this cutter, so I think the one that is best for you depends on what you are cutting and how big of a spindle or router you have. They make bigger and smaller cutters like this one. The 2263 is a good size for a 3 or 4 HP motor. I have been very happy with it.
Two years later, this is exactly what I was looking for. When I searched on Google for a comparison of these, your video was the first link. I about pooped my pants in excitement! Thank you!
Hi there. Since I did this video, there is a new flattening bit that is very good and the cutters are much cheaper. I have not tried it on wood yet, but it cuts aluminum beautifully and everyone else really likes it on wood too. You might want to consider that one, its called the slab slayer. ua-cam.com/video/F2N1eoFUMyM/v-deo.html
High value video for me. I just saw the bits with the extra carbide bits on the bottom and it was intriguing but after seeing your experience with the 2251 and 2263 I would definitely go with the 2263. Thanks!
Hi Jim, we have the flat bottom 4 cutter bit in my shop and we removed the bottom 2 cutters and just use the side cutters because of the same reason, gumming up and causing lots of tear out, works quite well with just the 2 , you can use it this way to do all the rough passes and finish with the more expensive cutter rc2263, thanks for all the great content.
Mark, Vancouver ,British Columbia
Canada
That is a good idea. I think all the bottom cutters do is generate heat 😊
Hey Jim, this was the best review for me. I was agonizing over a few things. I have the smaller Amana that works okay on my 2.2KW CNC. I’m currently upgrading to a real one and wasn’t sure if I was going to stick with it. I saw a lot of reviews for the other type singing the praises, but this sealed it for me and even talked me into going with a 7.5kw instead of the 4.5x. Thanks so much!
Thank you and I'm glad it was helpful.
Excellent info! I was struggling to find the distinctions between these bits, and your video nailed it. As I review options, that 2263 is indeed a big bit, with a 2.75" diameter. It appears that the 2255 is the same design, only smaller with a 2" diameter. Having a smaller router than yours, I think I'll give that a go. I'm typically flattening white oak, so the smaller bit should plow through that a little more easily.
Ya, they make a few different sizes (one even bigger than mine with a 3/4" shank too) with this design, so you can size to your router. I think they all use the same carbide cutters, they just have different diameters and number of cutters.
Thanks for the video. Lots of good information. For what its worth, prefer the raster tool path and run the bit over the end, then the bit never takes at 100%
agreed, there are several ways to make a toolpath that avoids the full load cut. You can come in from the side as you mention, or do a ramp move on a pocket toolpath. Just wanted to mention it because it can cause a little panic when your spindle stalls :-)
I got to say that’s a serious epoxy slab table.
That was a friend of mine. He has built a few, and borrows my machine to plane them off. They have all turned out really nice.
Where can I get one of those white fuzzy covers you have on the spindle. I use the same bit and like it. I like the bevel you get if carving out a tray or bowl
Ha! They are pretty easy to make, but takes a couple hours :-)
Great review and explanation. I was going to get a bit that diameter, but don’t know how to get the Z with the touch plate. Do you have a work-around or a different touch plate.
The height setting is not that important for planing anyway. I just jog around the slab I'm planing to find the highest point on the whole peice, then I jog Z down to just touch the top and manually set the Z height in Mach4. I usually just use a pocketing toolpath that has one depth of cut and then I will reset Z lower between each run and I just quite when I've planed down to fresh wood across the whole slab. I will also stick around so that when it has cut off the peaks and is cutting through air in other parts I can speed up the machining speed percentage in mack4 so it gets to the next part where it is hitting wood again sooner, then slow it back down to the normal feedrate.
@@JNWoodworks Thanks.
Very good technical information I could not find on other CNC videos, thanks for sharing. This may be the wrong place to ask this question, but I'm in the market for an Avid CNC router and plan on doing similar work to you (river tables etc), have you found the 4x4 CNC to be adequate with respect to material size as opposed to the 4x8?
Hi Stan,
I don't have room for a 4x8 in my garage, but I sure wish I did. That said, Vectric and other CAD programs will let you break up the job in multiple parts to let you slide a larger workpiece through. The bed size doesn't affect the cost much so l would definitely go with the bigger one if your shop has the space, especially if you are going to do river tables.
Awesome video! Liked and Subscribed! I was looking at the 2267 but after seeing your video I'm leaning to the 2263 because of the diameter. I'm worried about the 19,000 vs 22,000 Max RPM ratings... I have a Dewault DW618 with a 8000-24500/min (RPM). Should I be concerned with a Router sled? I'm totally new to this and appreciate any help!
I would take a look at the Slab Slayer bit as well. I did a video on that recently. It has much cheaper carbide inserts, and it is 2.5" in diameter which woudl be a little better for that router. I haven't tried this bit on wood, but it cuts aluminum great 🙂
ua-cam.com/video/F2N1eoFUMyM/v-deo.html
Thank you! @@JNWoodworks
I don't have a thickness planer or a jointer and no budget. So, I plan to use it fulltime for thicknessing and jointing rough lumber. How long will it last? I am concerned about needing to buy bits frequently. Thank you.
Hi Henry, I think using a router makes sense for large slabs that are too heavy, or won't fit in a planer, but for smaller stock, a CNC machine (or a router sled) are extremely inefficient ways to plane and joint regular dimensional lumber. You can buy a used desktop planer for less money than this bit usually. The tips on these are fairly expensive too (>$20 each).
However, to answer your question, I can mill several big slabs on one set of bit tips before having to rotate them to another corner.
I'm looking at the bigger version 5 wing RC-2259 and wondering about what your speeds and feeds are? Doesn't look like it's moving particularly fast. The bit above recommends 400 ipm at 1/8" doc at 12k rpms.
Hi Peter,
It really depends on the HP you have on your spindle. The spindle in this video is my old 3hp one. That would cut about 0.100" at 100ipm in Mesquite and epoxy. I was probably running around 16000 rpm. With my upgrade to the 4hp spindle I can cut deeper or run faster for sure. You do need to maintain some margin because these spindles are constant torque, so if you hit a tough spot and the spindle slows down, you lose hp proportional to rpm and it will bog down and stop very quickly.
The RC-2259 is a huge bit with a 3/4" shank so if you have an AVID machine you would need the 8.8hp spindle so that you have the ER32 collet, and frankly you'll need that much HP anyway. I don't know if you will hit 400ipm at that speed in stuff like Mesquite, but you probably will in most woods. If you are doing epoxy tables, you may find that cutting too fast will cause too much epoxy chipping. This bit is pretty good in epoxy, but if the epoxy is very hard (like cured for a couple weeks) it can tend to chip. In that case you want to use very fresh cutters, and run a light final pass. Having 5 cutters will keep the size of the bite down as well which should help to reduce chipping.
@@JNWoodworks - thanks - I do not have an AVID machine but it is a 6hp spindle with ER32. The speeds and feeds for that bit show 200 ipm at 12k rpm for 1/4" doc per pass or 400 ipm for 1/8". What was your step over for you bit? I think Amana recommends 50%, which is still just over 1 5/8". Good tip about the thin final pass in epoxy. Currently I have about 100 - 150 black walnut and hard maple live edge slabs to flatten before I can look at epoxy. I'm trying to speed up the flattening as much as I can. I will sell most as flattened and sanded slabs and keep some nice ones for epoxy tables. Cheers Peter.
@@petershupe3460 You will get close to that speed on maple and walnut I think. Watch out for knots on the first couple boards to see if its going to slow down at that speed and DOC. I run a 60% stepover on this bit. I also use a rastering type toolpath and make sure it starts outside the board and works in. If you use an offset toolpath or any that allows it to plunge into the wood, it is cutting on both the leading and trailing cutters for the first diameter of the bit travel, and that is where you can stall the spindle easily. Also, these bits are horrible to try and catch dust with because the large diameter and chip size blows the dust out so fast, it goes right through the brush bristles. It works good to make a dust boot with rubber strips instead of brush to stop the chips a little better. Or just reenforce the bristles with something like duct tape on the outside (takes some experimentation).
Hello there, can I use RC-2263 with my router sled for flattening table top? i have no CNC.
If you have a large router (like 3 hp), and the sled is pretty solid and holds the router well it would probably work. A nice sled with linear bearings or something similar.
FWIW, Woodpeckers themselves recommended the one that is just 1/4 inch smaller than the 2263 (but the same trim-cutter design) with a 3HP router, but I see no reason that this very slightly larger one wouldn't do just as well.
@@OFFICIALUND I agree, they make a few sizes of the same basic cutter design, I think they will all work well. It mostly depends on how much money you want to spend, and how much horsepower you have to spin it. The. Biggest one has a 3/4" shank too.
is Amana rc2263 the best router bit for surfacing table top?
Hi Nhan,
I think this kind of bit is one of the best. If you look at the two I compared, one has a lot of flat cutter surface touching the workpiece so it tends to get hot and burn. The rc2263 just cuts at the tip and seems to cut cleaner. They make several sizes of this cutter, so I think the one that is best for you depends on what you are cutting and how big of a spindle or router you have. They make bigger and smaller cutters like this one. The 2263 is a good size for a 3 or 4 HP motor. I have been very happy with it.
Thank you, JN Woodworks. Helpful video and clear explanation!
Boring.
Very very boring.