I do not agree with you King take here. Yes, throws were anoying in T7 and previous games already. What makes King top-3 annoying for many players is that he DOES NOT need throws to win at all. And he barely need his CH game as well. Mostanoying part is his damage on heat engagers (including universal one) and heat smash which hits f*cking grounded opponents. Why? Basically, to lose to King you just need to eat his armored heat engager, guess running stance mixup wrong afterwards, get randomly hit by heat smash or, aagain, by mixup afterwards, and/or lose 40%+ hp on his RA. It's a lot in text, but it's basically just 2-3 interactions without any special conditiona and even without combos!
That's cap. There's a reason some characters are universally hated and it's not bc we're losing to them. I lose a lot to Kazuyas, Bryan's and Lee's but you can tell there's no bs strings and mix ups there. There's a lot of brain power going into their offense and a lot of the time I can't hit them bc their defense is so good. Losing to them is not the same as losing to guessing games like King, Victor, Alyssa, Lili, Lars, etc. Tekken 6 and up characters with built in movement are trash. "Oh, you don't have to dash bro! The character does it for you!"
The challenge of making content for a game that everyone secretly hates xd. Is sad to say, but if you make "happy" or "positive" content about tekken, people don't click on it. The tekken community LOVES toxicity towards the game. Take care bro have a nice day
@@tomaswellmannnavarrete5793you’re delusional as hell. There is no “secret hate.” A lot of loudmouths in the community have made their distastes very abundantly clear since day one Knee himself included
Btw you can df1 Jin if he decides to transition to zen after a move, it beats every option he has so actively look for zen transitions (and if he throws from zen it will always be a 2 break so pretty straightforward).
most ppl just don’t lab, that is why they lose to the most predictable of jin mains that can’t break out of his 2-break throw every.single.time lol btw, seeing as how ppl *still* complain about d2 as if it isn’t reactable… which it is as well as every other low jin has if people would complain less and simply learn the matchup that would be so helpful
@TomiokaGiyuus97 exactly and this is even worse like, l understand if they can't react to d2, it comes with habit and training your eyes. But zen transitions ? Really ? This is literally free damage if the Jin does it after a move was blocked with an animation and a pose so obvious that it's not about reaction time anymore 💀
@@ThisIsNotSGHNTZ true, except for like Reina (I don't think all of her transitions can be checked but I might change my mind if I lab her longer) who is the only one I can think of right now, most stance transitions can be interrupted. Here we were making an argument for Jin since he only has one stance and it was the most obvious example but yeah I agree.
@Miaou98 With Reina you have to switch between jab and dickjab(I think King can throw her too), a single jab will be beaten by her SEN low, and SEN 3 will trade with it, but dickjab beats both of these options, just if you do dickjab SEN 4 will hit you, so you have to check what moves the Reina player likes to do the most after DF1 or FF2. Maybe there is a way to fully cover every option, I know that SEN 4 has a standing status before it can hit you(Bryan can TJU her lol), for some reason, so technically, maybe, but just maybe ducking into dickjab should beat them all? I never thought of that actually. The thing with Jin is his DF2 is kinda slow so it's makes it even easier to react, Reina's stance transitions are quick(Btw I forgot to mention that her HW stance can be beaten by a throw, so let's say a Reina does WS4,4 in heat and you block it thinking if you hit her she will do her parry, don't do nothing, you can just throw her, she can't cancel her HW stance into crouch dash quickly enough to avoid highs and the low from stance is also slow, obviously she can break the throw, but if it's CH's because she pressed an attack button, the break window is smaller, if the throw connects you get your dmg, and if she break it it's basically resets your position), Ling's stance transitions can even be launched, oh she does F2,1 and you blocked it? Just confirm her stance transition and it's a free launch, except if she does the jumping kick, some characters like Yoshi can still do a full combo with DF2, Bryan has to QCF3 to CH launch/float her, and Steve is just Steve. So yeah out of the stance transitions Reina's the strongest and the hardest to beat, definitely.
I remembered one time when I was practicing my Alisa skills in Tekken 8, I joined online and also fought another Alisa! (I've been traumatized ever since)
I would add Law and Steve. Raven is not as annoying as those two. I albo dont know how to play against Lidia. When she starts attacking it feels like playing against Hworang, your turn just doesnt exist.
@@BustaNAugustaas a law main you can tell the difference between a good and bad one but I have seen some questionable laws at tekken king n bushin rank
@@ShonyyThe main thing I see the most difference is how they use 3+4 and slide follow ups. Theres really no big incentive to get creative because what he has for basic mixes work extremely well throughout the tiers. He’s a menace until upper blues. At least from there you can slow him down some and make the player think. His combos work regardless of axis and wall proximity. It’s extremely rare to see Laws use any of his old school Tekken stuff simply because they don’t have to. Wouldn’t be an issue if he wasn’t so powerful on top of the super easy difficulty. I say this as no disrespect to true Law mains, he’s just a boss character in this game lol.
@Luxe_Stut Hmm, with any other character that's fine. I main Steve so it's hard to launch with him if you're not ducking in or peekaboo stance. But I'm sure there's other alternatives besides launching?
Late but theres only purple clones out of heat which are -14, and gold clones in heat that are -3. Punish them all the same if hes not in heat. Only thing thats plus is heat smash.
One of my of complaints about Jin's power level that I don't see spoken of often is his f+3. It's punishable on block but a) both string options are hit-confirmable and b) if it is blocked you can use the 3 option to back away or go into ZEN even when you delay it. Your opponent has to duck this and even then if you back away (which you have plenty of time to consider) I think their punish options are less than optimal (if someone knows you're going to do this they might be able to hit a dash up launcher - although even then they need time to come out of crouch first - but then that's what the ZEN transition is there to counterplay). With the Heat Engager option being hit-confirmable I would mark this down as one of the best Heat Engagers in the game but the fact you don't even have to commit to that on block and your options afterwards allow you to pick your exit strategy is nuts. I'm trying to incorporate this more frequently into my gameplan, it just covers way too many options to ignore (but, yeah, I think it's a bit crazy when put together).
I feel like Yoshimitsu is the easily the most annoying character to fight in this game. I mean he’s always had his flash traps and spins and gimmicks. But this time around I just feel like his damage output constantly has me in an uphill battle the whole match. And then when I finally have him playing catchup, that’s when the flash comes and bam!! Uphill battle again.. 😩😩
My worst ones are Reina and Law. Law is just relentless. He can plus me the entire match with giving me no room to do anything. Reina spacing is just too wide to get the generic punish. I really have to know specific punishes otherwise they don’t reach her.
Raven legit has colour coding on his moves that are minus. normal clones are all -14, orange clones are all -3, only his while running clone move that is a heat specific move is plus +7. and has no normal clone follow up when not in heat.
8:58 "Why does a Taekwon-do fighter have a perfect throw game?" Maybe because if began life in the Korean military. Hwoarang & Baek are ITF Taekwon-do. You learn throws as part of self-defence. His u/f 1+2 in particular is classic Taekwon-do self-defence. What you see in the Olympics is WT (formerly WTF) and is more of a sport.
@@dorellusthagod I just got to TG a few days ago and I gotta say... the amount of people who STILL do unfamiliar flowcharts into one and done, or struggle once their gameplay gets downloaded is crazy. Rank absolutely is meaningless in this game.
I'm double-posting because this one is on too tangential of a subject than my previous post. "Annoying" in previous Tekken games feels like it took on a different meaning. Annoying characters in older Tekkens were more because you had to learn a bunch of gimmicks (like Lei) and often relied on knowing on which ones your opponent liked to go to. In this game, though, characters have stuff that feels like it would have NEVER been allowed to exist in those games. Properties that give almost no downsides and are "just good" (like Dragunov's SNK 4 - when is it not a good time to try for this?). Characters with properties like this were usually one-offs (launch Leroy in 7, Bob in 6) and were either loathed or nerfed into the ground but here those sorts of things exist all over the roster. Like in earlier games I often would expect Eddy to go into RLX and know I can snuff it after blocking a transitional move, meaning they'd almost never be able to use that and would have to play around it, which I could use to my advantage. That isn't necessarily different here (I recognize the signs of an Eddy trying to enter RLX and shut it down) but in this game he also has that...quick low stance (I don't know what it is, I think he goes into it when his Heat Smash is blocked). The moves that get him into this stance don't put me in a great situation to snuff it during the transition (not enough positive frames to mount a specific option to counterplay at point-blank) and the 50/50 coming out of it is more painful than his RLX mixups. So when he uses this stance I always start to panic. This feels way more like free pressure the likes of which I'm unfamiliar with when dealing with Eddy. The argument could be made that if every character has tools like this then the game is balanced (and I don't deny it, as a Jin main who feels as the author does that he just has too much to the point he doesn't really have a gameplan anymore - ANY way you want to play probably has some merit of viability while in previous Tekkens he felt firmly a hybrid poke-pressure character with a lot of good options in both of those categories but lacked a clear path to raw offense). While I can see that it also just makes fighting a lot more of a headache than before because you have to respect and eat these things while the opponent carries on partying and ignoring fundamentals. Add to that things like blocked Heat Smashes or Heat Dashes giving many characters an opportunity for a potentially nasty mixup that you are required to respect without any counterplay and defense has never felt so helpless. A statement I heard during the betas of 8 that definitely rings true is that "Tekken 8 doesn't require more study, it gives the opponent more homework." You as a player don't need to understand how to deal with neutral options as much as finding a way to open your offense and then harry the opponent as long as possible to keep it. You probably at least have a few tools in your moveset that your opponent won't have a direct answer for short of a hard read so give 'em hell.
I think Nina should be be up there too. Everything is plus, she has the same insane wallcarry as damage she always has, she has a complete throw game, and she always looks like she’s having a seizure.
Xiaoyu`s AOP is definitely hitable. It has however a small Sidestep at activation build into it that causes additional evasion. It negates quite some moves but its beatable. ;) I like to knowlege check my opponents, especially when they mash and flowchart their offence. :)
I am trading raven for Steve, AKA the punching version of Howarang. Also would add Heichachy with crappy oppresive plus on block things instead on Jin.
The problem with this game is that it's hard to make a top 10, you'd need a top 15 or 20 at least. Law, Lili, Asuka, Jun, etc. There's too much cheese in this game and i personally can't stand it.
Tbh once u start reaching top 15 there’s not a big difference between characters balance wise Top 10 is just super dominant and law fits in the top 10 as well
For me, my number 1 is yoshi, that character needs to get gutted next patch. Strong wall carry, flash, spin being the best sidestep, ridiculous buttons, 1,1 in heat, unblockable launchers, forward 1+2 spam in the wall, 2nd best hop kick in the game (2nd only to Claudio), his df2, his ridiculous healing, bro needs to get toned down
I expect this to be an unpopular opinion in this community, but Heihachi's keep out abilities, safe launchers/ch launchers, launching hellsweep, hit confirmable f3, d, 1,1 and a gazillion knock back moves are incredibly annoying to deal with. And his warrior instinct, even though it's only usable once per match, is one of the most broken mechanics in the game.
And when you add up the damage he gets from the combos it's crazy. Like no matter the execution, getting a 3/4hp deleter combo from a safe launcher is just crazy to me.
Bro I 1000% agree with you in regards to Yoshi's flash, its SO ANNOYING and adds to the mental stack, its managable on paper but holy shit its ANNOYING
My most annoying character in Tekken is not even in the game yet and that is Lei.😂 Currently I'm thankful for that fact but the moment he comes back I have problems 😂😂😂
I need to defend yoshi flash is -15 on block, and is very hard to master, it's more easy to land on t8 then ever but it used to be unblockable luncher on previous titles, and now it's only a luncher in heat or from seathed sword wich is a 8 frame atack it is veeeery situational and risky, that is why you don't see to much yoshi players using it, it's very hard
0:55 As a Jin I think he needs more nerfs only more to his d2 and zen u1, uf+2 isn't as evasive as other characters like feng's, that's why Jin is safe it's because it can't evade the damgerous stuff.
I'd say Bryan for me. He controls space too well, has absurd damage and wall carry. A mid, low crushing heat smash and a broken powercrush with his new ability
yeah because his chat was trolling him and i guess he just believed it. didn't really come off as a joke. btw he only has purple and gold clones. purple are -14 and gold (while in heat) are safe at -3. He is never plus with clones.
I hate fighting king because my friend is a great king player. But after him showing me what he has to do to pull those off. I show him and other king players respect
On top of everything said: Yoshi's combos are simultaniously damaging, wallcarrying and healing (both chip and normal HP!!!) and that alisa can heal half of her hp if she gets chainsaws out even not in heat. ANNOYYEN 8.
@@bamantioiindrahidayat9062 Did you just try to defend his low unblockable? With the worst defense ever? It doesn’t have shit range first off 2nd ITS A LOW UNBLOCKABLE LAUNCHER! That on oki is disgusting. If you don’t tech roll u get hit with a steel pedal and if you do tech roll u get hit with an unblockable low launcher or heat enganged with the steel pedal. I guarantee that you are either in red or purple ranks.
@@unowr79 it have sht range and you can interupt the low unblock and you can stay grounded to make him whiff they will do df 4 or low unblockable if they in crouching post And definitly absolutely it have shitty range and can be interupt with spring kick and yes it so shitty that you guys always falls for it
@@bamantioiindrahidayat9062 WOAHHH YOU CAN INTERRUPT THE MOVE?!?! You mean like every other move in the game? Except flash ofc 😂. And also spring kick launches them in the air so yes it dodges lows slowpoke. But spring kick is launch punishable, so you’re complaining cuz someone can avoid a launcher by doing a move that can get them launched? Tf? Are you slow? And stop with this range argument, it absolutely does not have bad range. It also crushes highs so there’s another thing about that bs launcher.
As a kazuya main i can say zafina and xiaoyu is actual cancer because i have no fast mid launcher or even mid poke. I always forget i have df 4 mist kick which is 10 frames. But its just delaying the inevitable
Zen is absolutely shit..mate. Jin only has 4 good moves - D2 (kazuya has a samiliar move d1+2 but jin's more hated.) - uf2 - 21 extension - zen 4 Everything else is just too linear and shit
Ah yes because a 16 frame mid crush samsara , ewgf, hellsweep, homing armoured heat engager, best heat smash in the game, D4, highest wall damage, complete throw game, perfect 50/50 are all bad moves. Hell give me one bad move Jin has
@shaghilathar3588 jin's electric is the shitiest electric of mishimas, 50/50? If u wanna talk 50 50, I guess put kazuya on top Hell sweep? Put kazuya on top Won't talk Abt small moves like d4 Sorry I forgot to mention heat smash, it Is one Hella broken move
@ WTF? How is it shit? He literally has easy mode electrics with the highest and easiest combos, how is his 50/50 worse than kazuyas, he has a neutral on block ff3, kazuyas is -3. Jins hellsweep floor breaks whereas kazuyas needs to spend heat to do the same thing. Also kazuya is BASED on the 50/50 whereas Jin just has it while also having every other play style and no weaknesses. And how is d4 a small move. A -12 high crushing low sweep that hits grounded, it’s an amazing low poke. Again what doesn’t Jin have?
For me, Zafina isn't particularly annoying -- I like her, tbh! And I don't particularly mind Raven. I'd put Asuka and Victor on the list. They're pretty ignorant, even if they're not great at a high level.
BRYAN. He's not OP but he's wayyyy too engineered to do nothing but do everything by camping all day waiting for a sweep/launch and then a 50% combo. Most games with him feel like perfects where he either landed 2 combos or stammered like a dummy because he refused to to anything outside of failing a combo starter.
As a Bryan main, wait till you start experiencing the taunt 😅😈. Believe it or not, both fighting as and against Bryan will improve your overall Tekken skill.
@@BustaNAugusta I couldn't agree more! If there's a character that taught me to be mindful of punish game, ITS DEFINITELY BRYAN. I find Bryan and Alisa annoying because Bryan's refuse to play neutral and phish for one of 10 combo starters, Alisa's on the other hand refuse to leave neutral and poke/torture you to death, it's infuriating when they poke you twice and then back up across the stage.
@@Sloppyjoey1Yessir! As you move up up the ranks you’ll always struggle against Bryan (especially him, Heihachi, Lee, Steve, Kaz and Paul) if you don’t have the fundamentals you should’ve developed for that tier/rank. If you’re beating Bryans consistently your gameplay is pretty tight fundamentally. If Bryan is consistently beating you, then you really need to evaluate your overall gameplay. Bryan as you know will capitalize off of any/all weaknesses you show. You don’t space, step moves, too defensive, too offensive, can’t break throws…you’ll be dead quickly.
@@BustaNAugusta You said it better than I ever could! When I was hard stuck red I feared him. Now that I hover purple to gold, I see him as more of a mediocre character that forces fundamentals. When I say Bryans annoying, it's mostly because a lot of Bryan players bore me and grind the game to a halt, because they hold block and phish for half life combos, so I'm inevitably locked out of half my kit and forced into purely safe moves which makes the fights overly slow and sterile. You'd be surprised how often I beat them because I poke them 3 times and let the clock run out.
@@Sloppyjoey1I can definitely see that 🤣. Bryan can’t break turtles either, his only chance is getting you to the wall and being good enough to hit TB4 or TJU. If you have solid defense, movement and poking then the Bryan player has to be an even better Tekken player than you to find a way to do damage. But as you said, that’s the tough part, can you remain disciplined enough to not try to hurry up and get him outta there and end up getting nuked. I’ve been working on something with my gameplay/Bryan to help make the fight entertaining and frustrating…for my opponent 😄.
@@niar1126 W Lars brethren and I also think he’s annoying specifically because when I fight another Lars I feel like they never think. Im pretty sure I have a 90% winrate against lars because some of us Lars mains just don’t use the brain.
@@MrCjosue24 the fact is you can't really count on King's chain grabs after red ranks. I mean: you surely can use them as mixup options, but you can't spam them because people are definitely going to escape them. And that's kinda fair tbh.
@@SergixGhost it's almost aways used at the wall so sidestepping isn't an option. He also has really good attacks from grounded, so you don't need to be mindless to get cheesed out
me as a reina main, if you don't block the ff2 or 112 then we keep doing that. also most reina use 3+4 after ff2f including me, so try to duck or low parry it.
What’s so scary about Lili BT?😭 She gets all these plus frames but has no true way of capitalising from it Yall need to hit the lab and practice against Lili please🫠 I promise you she’s not as cheesy as u think 😭
@@wolfzafox229kazuya has boring offense sequences like his wall vortexes. he’s really strong in general, but his buffed tracking in heat makes him annoying as shit
Steve and Kazuya aren't really annoying to fight against. They're just incredibly boring. You know exactly what their gameplan will be every time you face them
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What do you guys think the most annoying character in Tekken 8 is? Also join my discord :) discord.com/invite/XpGg82YRJD
I do not agree with you King take here.
Yes, throws were anoying in T7 and previous games already.
What makes King top-3 annoying for many players is that he DOES NOT need throws to win at all. And he barely need his CH game as well. Mostanoying part is his damage on heat engagers (including universal one) and heat smash which hits f*cking grounded opponents. Why?
Basically, to lose to King you just need to eat his armored heat engager, guess running stance mixup wrong afterwards, get randomly hit by heat smash or, aagain, by mixup afterwards, and/or lose 40%+ hp on his RA. It's a lot in text, but it's basically just 2-3 interactions without any special conditiona and even without combos!
The most annoying character is whichever one I'm currently losing to.
The perfect answer
Abso-fucking-lutely
@@GTJD111Yes.
I always found 70k-80k prowess players that knew every match up
That's cap. There's a reason some characters are universally hated and it's not bc we're losing to them. I lose a lot to Kazuyas, Bryan's and Lee's but you can tell there's no bs strings and mix ups there. There's a lot of brain power going into their offense and a lot of the time I can't hit them bc their defense is so good. Losing to them is not the same as losing to guessing games like King, Victor, Alyssa, Lili, Lars, etc. Tekken 6 and up characters with built in movement are trash. "Oh, you don't have to dash bro! The character does it for you!"
There’s no way you made a list about annoying characters without mentioning Law. That guy is the ultimate cheese
Yessss!
Absolutely
He became simplified too
As a Law main, I was 100% expecting Law, then when his outro came I was like “Where the fuck is Law?”
way more annoying than Jin
0:37 - Jin
2:02 - Raven
3:25 - Eddy
4:30 - Bears
6:10 - King
7:58 - Hwoarang
9:11 - Yoshimitsu
10:17 - Xiaoyu
11:52 - Alisa
13:17 - Zafina
i have the hardest time fighting against my drunk father
Maybe try labing the matchup😬
When I fight against My drunk father I now recognise all the strings to Dodge
Probably a WiFi player.
@@waalker1206 Is labing it just fighting your drunk uncle?
@@ThisisKyle fighting Ken to learn the Ryu matchup
Gotta sidestep the beer bottle and tech the grab.
Because nobody knows the Zafina matchup, the Zafina in our locals gets top 5 guaranteed everytime
Zafina plays like she has 18 limbs shit makes no sense 😭
FR OMG 😂😭
Leo is also missing from the conversation.... All the moves Leo has look the DAMN SAME. Also almost nothing is punishable!
i thought it was just me who was getting demolished by that sora look a like
Raven only has two types of clones purple in general golden in heat
at first thought he knew he was being trolled, but turned out no lol. Both clones are also negative on block, golden ones just safe lol
@hattori3655 yes you can dig jab or side step punish tho
@@hattori3655the clones are only safe on block in heat
@@versatilelord8893 and golden clones come from?...
@ from heat
The regular clones are all like -13 or -14 on block
Reminder lars law and nina avoided his hate somehow.
Im talking about for real!!! Especially that itch nina!!! I hate her with every ounce of my soul.
I will literally leave the match. Idgaf about the plug rule.
They need to take some of the juice from Jin and give it to djin
I feel like you have made this list 3 times over at this point.
The challenge of making content for a game that everyone secretly hates xd. Is sad to say, but if you make "happy" or "positive" content about tekken, people don't click on it. The tekken community LOVES toxicity towards the game. Take care bro have a nice day
Rent was due
Because people like you watch it
@@tomaswellmannnavarrete5793you’re delusional as hell. There is no “secret hate.” A lot of loudmouths in the community have made their distastes very abundantly clear since day one
Knee himself included
@@Mr_Mistahand so do people like you
Btw you can df1 Jin if he decides to transition to zen after a move, it beats every option he has so actively look for zen transitions (and if he throws from zen it will always be a 2 break so pretty straightforward).
most ppl just don’t lab, that is why they lose to the most predictable of jin mains that can’t break out of his 2-break throw every.single.time lol
btw, seeing as how ppl *still* complain about d2 as if it isn’t reactable… which it is as well as every other low jin has
if people would complain less and simply learn the matchup that would be so helpful
@TomiokaGiyuus97 exactly and this is even worse like, l understand if they can't react to d2, it comes with habit and training your eyes.
But zen transitions ? Really ? This is literally free damage if the Jin does it after a move was blocked with an animation and a pose so obvious that it's not about reaction time anymore 💀
Tbh, that's basically the case with almost every stance transition in the game.
@@ThisIsNotSGHNTZ true, except for like Reina (I don't think all of her transitions can be checked but I might change my mind if I lab her longer) who is the only one I can think of right now, most stance transitions can be interrupted.
Here we were making an argument for Jin since he only has one stance and it was the most obvious example but yeah I agree.
@Miaou98 With Reina you have to switch between jab and dickjab(I think King can throw her too), a single jab will be beaten by her SEN low, and SEN 3 will trade with it, but dickjab beats both of these options, just if you do dickjab SEN 4 will hit you, so you have to check what moves the Reina player likes to do the most after DF1 or FF2. Maybe there is a way to fully cover every option, I know that SEN 4 has a standing status before it can hit you(Bryan can TJU her lol), for some reason, so technically, maybe, but just maybe ducking into dickjab should beat them all? I never thought of that actually. The thing with Jin is his DF2 is kinda slow so it's makes it even easier to react, Reina's stance transitions are quick(Btw I forgot to mention that her HW stance can be beaten by a throw, so let's say a Reina does WS4,4 in heat and you block it thinking if you hit her she will do her parry, don't do nothing, you can just throw her, she can't cancel her HW stance into crouch dash quickly enough to avoid highs and the low from stance is also slow, obviously she can break the throw, but if it's CH's because she pressed an attack button, the break window is smaller, if the throw connects you get your dmg, and if she break it it's basically resets your position), Ling's stance transitions can even be launched, oh she does F2,1 and you blocked it? Just confirm her stance transition and it's a free launch, except if she does the jumping kick, some characters like Yoshi can still do a full combo with DF2, Bryan has to QCF3 to CH launch/float her, and Steve is just Steve. So yeah out of the stance transitions Reina's the strongest and the hardest to beat, definitely.
The amount of law’s I’ve been running into is driving me crazy
I remembered one time when I was practicing my Alisa skills in Tekken 8, I joined online and also fought another Alisa!
(I've been traumatized ever since)
Raven Clones are literally Pikmin.
I would add Law and Steve. Raven is not as annoying as those two. I albo dont know how to play against Lidia. When she starts attacking it feels like playing against Hworang, your turn just doesnt exist.
Steve?
Laws are all Bushin/Tekken King by default, you can’t tell how good or bad they are with that character.
I usually just armor or duck punish they love spamming jab strings for some reason
@@BustaNAugustaas a law main you can tell the difference between a good and bad one but I have seen some questionable laws at tekken king n bushin rank
@@ShonyyThe main thing I see the most difference is how they use 3+4 and slide follow ups. Theres really no big incentive to get creative because what he has for basic mixes work extremely well throughout the tiers. He’s a menace until upper blues. At least from there you can slow him down some and make the player think. His combos work regardless of axis and wall proximity. It’s extremely rare to see Laws use any of his old school Tekken stuff simply because they don’t have to. Wouldn’t be an issue if he wasn’t so powerful on top of the super easy difficulty. I say this as no disrespect to true Law mains, he’s just a boss character in this game lol.
Raven only has to colors of clones purple (-14) and they turn orange in heat orange (-3) raven has almost nothing that is plus on block 😭
So like, if a player uses his purple clone, what do I do? Side step? Crouch?
@@Dr.SauceBoss Just block it it's -14 you can maybe even launch him for that
@Luxe_Stut Hmm, with any other character that's fine. I main Steve so it's hard to launch with him if you're not ducking in or peekaboo stance. But I'm sure there's other alternatives besides launching?
@@Dr.SauceBossyou can’t launch him for that unless you are bryan lars ling etc just take the sonic fang punish
I haven't fought a raven so I thought you were joking on raven's rainbow
He wasn’t joking he was just wrong
Late but theres only purple clones out of heat which are -14, and gold clones in heat that are -3. Punish them all the same if hes not in heat.
Only thing thats plus is heat smash.
One of my of complaints about Jin's power level that I don't see spoken of often is his f+3. It's punishable on block but a) both string options are hit-confirmable and b) if it is blocked you can use the 3 option to back away or go into ZEN even when you delay it. Your opponent has to duck this and even then if you back away (which you have plenty of time to consider) I think their punish options are less than optimal (if someone knows you're going to do this they might be able to hit a dash up launcher - although even then they need time to come out of crouch first - but then that's what the ZEN transition is there to counterplay).
With the Heat Engager option being hit-confirmable I would mark this down as one of the best Heat Engagers in the game but the fact you don't even have to commit to that on block and your options afterwards allow you to pick your exit strategy is nuts. I'm trying to incorporate this more frequently into my gameplan, it just covers way too many options to ignore (but, yeah, I think it's a bit crazy when put together).
I feel like Yoshimitsu is the easily the most annoying character to fight in this game. I mean he’s always had his flash traps and spins and gimmicks. But this time around I just feel like his damage output constantly has me in an uphill battle the whole match. And then when I finally have him playing catchup, that’s when the flash comes and bam!! Uphill battle again.. 😩😩
Steve, Nina and Hworang. Most people only spam endless strings and shield attacks. Zeros skills
Difference being that Hwo doesn’t use strings, he mixes you up, mostly with great risk himself.
I don't think Steve is spammable
steve??? is bro okay?
The day you learn to defend is the day you'll realize how dumb you look rn
Steve smamable? hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Steve: those damn lower attacks
Bryan: always tries to get you in the corner
Nina: every single one I’ve fought always plays on simple controls
Just saw the notification and knew that alisa will make her way to top 3 to 1
My worst ones are Reina and Law. Law is just relentless. He can plus me the entire match with giving me no room to do anything. Reina spacing is just too wide to get the generic punish. I really have to know specific punishes otherwise they don’t reach her.
Raven legit has colour coding on his moves that are minus. normal clones are all -14, orange clones are all -3, only his while running clone move that is a heat specific move is plus +7. and has no normal clone follow up when not in heat.
8:58 "Why does a Taekwon-do fighter have a perfect throw game?"
Maybe because if began life in the Korean military. Hwoarang & Baek are ITF Taekwon-do. You learn throws as part of self-defence. His u/f 1+2 in particular is classic Taekwon-do self-defence. What you see in the Olympics is WT (formerly WTF) and is more of a sport.
Zafina is just absolute garbage. She just crawls all game long and it’s game over because you can’t even move half the time because she’s fast.
Mmm the salt feeds us, it fuels us.
- Zafina Main
So this is how y'all got to GoD, huh? All 5 of you
@@dorellusthagod I just got to TG a few days ago and I gotta say... the amount of people who STILL do unfamiliar flowcharts into one and done, or struggle once their gameplay gets downloaded is crazy. Rank absolutely is meaningless in this game.
Only advanced minds can handle the excessive cheese levels. Never have to block or break throws when you're always in tarantula. 😂
May you succeed in spreading the salt everywhere my zafina brethren
There's no way Zafina is above Yoshi
I hate that teleport and flash so much bro and that unlockable ass launcher even if I somehow stop it I still hate that he has that 😭
I feel like the hitboxes of moves are too big, like I'll side step/walk and still get hit, really makes it demotivating to move in 3D
I'm double-posting because this one is on too tangential of a subject than my previous post.
"Annoying" in previous Tekken games feels like it took on a different meaning. Annoying characters in older Tekkens were more because you had to learn a bunch of gimmicks (like Lei) and often relied on knowing on which ones your opponent liked to go to.
In this game, though, characters have stuff that feels like it would have NEVER been allowed to exist in those games. Properties that give almost no downsides and are "just good" (like Dragunov's SNK 4 - when is it not a good time to try for this?). Characters with properties like this were usually one-offs (launch Leroy in 7, Bob in 6) and were either loathed or nerfed into the ground but here those sorts of things exist all over the roster.
Like in earlier games I often would expect Eddy to go into RLX and know I can snuff it after blocking a transitional move, meaning they'd almost never be able to use that and would have to play around it, which I could use to my advantage. That isn't necessarily different here (I recognize the signs of an Eddy trying to enter RLX and shut it down) but in this game he also has that...quick low stance (I don't know what it is, I think he goes into it when his Heat Smash is blocked). The moves that get him into this stance don't put me in a great situation to snuff it during the transition (not enough positive frames to mount a specific option to counterplay at point-blank) and the 50/50 coming out of it is more painful than his RLX mixups. So when he uses this stance I always start to panic. This feels way more like free pressure the likes of which I'm unfamiliar with when dealing with Eddy.
The argument could be made that if every character has tools like this then the game is balanced (and I don't deny it, as a Jin main who feels as the author does that he just has too much to the point he doesn't really have a gameplan anymore - ANY way you want to play probably has some merit of viability while in previous Tekkens he felt firmly a hybrid poke-pressure character with a lot of good options in both of those categories but lacked a clear path to raw offense). While I can see that it also just makes fighting a lot more of a headache than before because you have to respect and eat these things while the opponent carries on partying and ignoring fundamentals. Add to that things like blocked Heat Smashes or Heat Dashes giving many characters an opportunity for a potentially nasty mixup that you are required to respect without any counterplay and defense has never felt so helpless.
A statement I heard during the betas of 8 that definitely rings true is that "Tekken 8 doesn't require more study, it gives the opponent more homework." You as a player don't need to understand how to deal with neutral options as much as finding a way to open your offense and then harry the opponent as long as possible to keep it. You probably at least have a few tools in your moveset that your opponent won't have a direct answer for short of a hard read so give 'em hell.
I’d like to add an honorable mention, Law.
He. Doesn’t. Shut, Up.
I think Nina should be be up there too. Everything is plus, she has the same insane wallcarry as damage she always has, she has a complete throw game, and she always looks like she’s having a seizure.
Her animations are so bad
@@neocrimson3542 they are terrible
Don't forget the insane range/poking game and the lows and annoying strings
Xiaoyu`s AOP is definitely hitable. It has however a small Sidestep at activation build into it that causes additional evasion. It negates quite some moves but its beatable. ;) I like to knowlege check my opponents, especially when they mash and flowchart their offence. :)
I always find it funny that a bear can do a EWGF
I am trading raven for Steve, AKA the punching version of Howarang.
Also would add Heichachy with crappy oppresive plus on block things instead on Jin.
The problem with this game is that it's hard to make a top 10, you'd need a top 15 or 20 at least. Law, Lili, Asuka, Jun, etc. There's too much cheese in this game and i personally can't stand it.
Tbh once u start reaching top 15 there’s not a big difference between characters balance wise
Top 10 is just super dominant and law fits in the top 10 as well
For me, my number 1 is yoshi, that character needs to get gutted next patch. Strong wall carry, flash, spin being the best sidestep, ridiculous buttons, 1,1 in heat, unblockable launchers, forward 1+2 spam in the wall, 2nd best hop kick in the game (2nd only to Claudio), his df2, his ridiculous healing, bro needs to get toned down
Fully relatable vid. Even as a proper casual throughout the years.
Alisa is a nice character lorewise but a total pain in the sack in PvP
agreed bro, i don't fw Yoshi's flash, king's grabs, whatever the f alisa, zafina, and ling xiaoyu doing, and law's cheese: run and sweep to nunchucks.
For the 80th time, the kuma heat smash does not track lmao.
crazy how many people will say it does though.. insane
I expect this to be an unpopular opinion in this community, but Heihachi's keep out abilities, safe launchers/ch launchers, launching hellsweep, hit confirmable f3, d, 1,1 and a gazillion knock back moves are incredibly annoying to deal with. And his warrior instinct, even though it's only usable once per match, is one of the most broken mechanics in the game.
He literally feels like an elden ring boss during warrior instinct. A "round winner" mechanic in an ft3 is dumb af
And when you add up the damage he gets from the combos it's crazy. Like no matter the execution, getting a 3/4hp deleter combo from a safe launcher is just crazy to me.
Basically, matchup check characters that no one plays
I'm surprised Ass-ucena and UgLily isn't here
UGLILY???! SHE'S NOT UGLYYYY
This list not having victor on it is an absolute tragedy.
please dont complain about us victor mains, we dont need to be nerfed anymore😭
Victor mains have 0 skills all they mash is 2
Bro I 1000% agree with you in regards to Yoshi's flash, its SO ANNOYING and adds to the mental stack, its managable on paper but holy shit its ANNOYING
If it wasn't for the fact that one of the people at the locals I go to playa zafina, I'd have zero experience against her
AYE I FELT THAT "Jin, but also guys keep in mind he's my main".
Just got this game today. Super hyped
Surprised Jun wasn't on the list lol. Great vid as always!
She’s been nerfed to the ground and you still complaining 😂
@thatgiovanni1160 it was a reference to stream, I ain't complaining I don't even have the game
I'm sorry but I chuckled at the Raven clone section. 😭
xiaoyu in hit got a 20f launcher not launch punishable while spending a 3rd of the heat bar. while reina low heatsmash is launch punishable.
What? No serious wut? Raven clone colors has different block properties??? Bruh 400 hours in kishin and i didnt know that.
My most annoying character in Tekken is not even in the game yet and that is Lei.😂 Currently I'm thankful for that fact but the moment he comes back I have problems 😂😂😂
I need to defend yoshi flash is -15 on block, and is very hard to master, it's more easy to land on t8 then ever but it used to be unblockable luncher on previous titles, and now it's only a luncher in heat or from seathed sword wich is a 8 frame atack it is veeeery situational and risky, that is why you don't see to much yoshi players using it, it's very hard
0:55 As a Jin I think he needs more nerfs only more to his d2 and zen u1, uf+2 isn't as evasive as other characters like feng's, that's why Jin is safe it's because it can't evade the damgerous stuff.
I'd say Bryan for me. He controls space too well, has absurd damage and wall carry. A mid, low crushing heat smash and a broken powercrush with his new ability
Name a better duo Tekken Players and Complaining about other characters while downplaying their mains. I bet you cant
The essence of the "Silence GoD a Garyu is speaking" meme 💀
Yoshimitsu and Flash
He put his own main on the list though
First time I'm hearing raven has different colored clones.
I think it was just a joke
yeah because his chat was trolling him and i guess he just believed it. didn't really come off as a joke. btw he only has purple and gold clones. purple are -14 and gold (while in heat) are safe at -3. He is never plus with clones.
I’m not gonna lie one of the reasons I hate Jin is for some reason I imagine the Jin player being an edge lord who thinks their the main character 😂
Jin mains don’t do that. They act like Jin’s a bad character
Im a Jin main and yes this is the exact vibe i mostly get in mirror matches, it's pathetic😂
Search nova seiken, he’s the embodiment of what you’re talking bout
I hate fighting king because my friend is a great king player. But after him showing me what he has to do to pull those off. I show him and other king players respect
On top of everything said: Yoshi's combos are simultaniously damaging, wallcarrying and healing (both chip and normal HP!!!) and that alisa can heal half of her hp if she gets chainsaws out even not in heat.
ANNOYYEN 8.
1:35 You mean back, forward 2,3 mid, mid, into Zen stance for Jin? I don’t think he does have back, forward 1,3🤔
I really can't stand when a move autopilots the movement/evasion and tracking for the user.
13:18 I'm surprised no one has talked about her. Wait, you fought Zafina back then, right?
I've trained at it and still can't break grabs to save my life, so King and Dragunov are my nemeses.
Like this if your a day 1 Hwoarang hater
For me these are in order;
Bears, Lars, Raven, Leo, Alisa, Eddy, Yoshimitsu, Drag, Jun and Zafina.
Paul and Bryan should have made the list… they are mad slow and mad powerful.. to powerful to have such regular names 😂
I’m surprised Feng isn’t in this list, I’m assuming people see learn things as time goes.
If the game doesn't have Jinpachi, I'm good
Yoshimitsu not being number 1 is diabolical
I'd rather fight Yoshi than Alisa.
First of hes low unblockable hav3 sht range and if you stay grounded hes miss and you can do spring kick
@@bamantioiindrahidayat9062 Did you just try to defend his low unblockable? With the worst defense ever? It doesn’t have shit range first off 2nd ITS A LOW UNBLOCKABLE LAUNCHER! That on oki is disgusting. If you don’t tech roll u get hit with a steel pedal and if you do tech roll u get hit with an unblockable low launcher or heat enganged with the steel pedal. I guarantee that you are either in red or purple ranks.
@@unowr79 it have sht range and you can interupt the low unblock and you can stay grounded to make him whiff they will do df 4 or low unblockable if they in crouching post
And definitly absolutely it have shitty range and can be interupt with spring kick and yes it so shitty that you guys always falls for it
@@bamantioiindrahidayat9062 WOAHHH YOU CAN INTERRUPT THE MOVE?!?! You mean like every other move in the game? Except flash ofc 😂. And also spring kick launches them in the air so yes it dodges lows slowpoke. But spring kick is launch punishable, so you’re complaining cuz someone can avoid a launcher by doing a move that can get them launched? Tf? Are you slow? And stop with this range argument, it absolutely does not have bad range. It also crushes highs so there’s another thing about that bs launcher.
As a kazuya main i can say zafina and xiaoyu is actual cancer because i have no fast mid launcher or even mid poke. I always forget i have df 4 mist kick which is 10 frames. But its just delaying the inevitable
I find hwoarang ok, I generally just stay patient and try to read my opponents tendencies regarding lows. but Lars is kicking my butt with cheese
Damn, Feng doesn't even get an honorable mention for his bullshittery?
Zen is absolutely shit..mate. Jin only has 4 good moves
- D2 (kazuya has a samiliar move d1+2 but jin's more hated.)
- uf2
- 21 extension
- zen 4
Everything else is just too linear and shit
Ah yes because a 16 frame mid crush samsara , ewgf, hellsweep, homing armoured heat engager, best heat smash in the game, D4, highest wall damage, complete throw game, perfect 50/50 are all bad moves. Hell give me one bad move Jin has
@shaghilathar3588 jin's electric is the shitiest electric of mishimas, 50/50? If u wanna talk 50 50, I guess put kazuya on top
Hell sweep? Put kazuya on top
Won't talk Abt small moves like d4
Sorry I forgot to mention heat smash, it Is one Hella broken move
@ WTF? How is it shit? He literally has easy mode electrics with the highest and easiest combos, how is his 50/50 worse than kazuyas, he has a neutral on block ff3, kazuyas is -3. Jins hellsweep floor breaks whereas kazuyas needs to spend heat to do the same thing. Also kazuya is BASED on the 50/50 whereas Jin just has it while also having every other play style and no weaknesses. And how is d4 a small move. A -12 high crushing low sweep that hits grounded, it’s an amazing low poke. Again what doesn’t Jin have?
@@shaghilathar3588 who do you main?
@@MrPuffells Answer my question first? How is Jin lacking in any area? His S tier in all categories a character can be
For me, Zafina isn't particularly annoying -- I like her, tbh! And I don't particularly mind Raven.
I'd put Asuka and Victor on the list. They're pretty ignorant, even if they're not great at a high level.
BRYAN. He's not OP but he's wayyyy too engineered to do nothing but do everything by camping all day waiting for a sweep/launch and then a 50% combo. Most games with him feel like perfects where he either landed 2 combos or stammered like a dummy because he refused to to anything outside of failing a combo starter.
As a Bryan main, wait till you start experiencing the taunt 😅😈. Believe it or not, both fighting as and against Bryan will improve your overall Tekken skill.
@@BustaNAugusta I couldn't agree more! If there's a character that taught me to be mindful of punish game, ITS DEFINITELY BRYAN.
I find Bryan and Alisa annoying because Bryan's refuse to play neutral and phish for one of 10 combo starters, Alisa's on the other hand refuse to leave neutral and poke/torture you to death, it's infuriating when they poke you twice and then back up across the stage.
@@Sloppyjoey1Yessir! As you move up up the ranks you’ll always struggle against Bryan (especially him, Heihachi, Lee, Steve, Kaz and Paul) if you don’t have the fundamentals you should’ve developed for that tier/rank. If you’re beating Bryans consistently your gameplay is pretty tight fundamentally. If Bryan is consistently beating you, then you really need to evaluate your overall gameplay. Bryan as you know will capitalize off of any/all weaknesses you show. You don’t space, step moves, too defensive, too offensive, can’t break throws…you’ll be dead quickly.
@@BustaNAugusta You said it better than I ever could! When I was hard stuck red I feared him. Now that I hover purple to gold, I see him as more of a mediocre character that forces fundamentals.
When I say Bryans annoying, it's mostly because a lot of Bryan players bore me and grind the game to a halt, because they hold block and phish for half life combos, so I'm inevitably locked out of half my kit and forced into purely safe moves which makes the fights overly slow and sterile.
You'd be surprised how often I beat them because I poke them 3 times and let the clock run out.
@@Sloppyjoey1I can definitely see that 🤣. Bryan can’t break turtles either, his only chance is getting you to the wall and being good enough to hit TB4 or TJU. If you have solid defense, movement and poking then the Bryan player has to be an even better Tekken player than you to find a way to do damage. But as you said, that’s the tough part, can you remain disciplined enough to not try to hurry up and get him outta there and end up getting nuked. I’ve been working on something with my gameplay/Bryan to help make the fight entertaining and frustrating…for my opponent 😄.
Surprised lars isn't on here and I main the guy.i guess people are finally learning the matchup
I would say about half of my sessions end with me just putting the controller down and letting the Lars win the last round so I can turn off the game
@@niar1126 W Lars brethren and I also think he’s annoying specifically because when I fight another Lars I feel like they never think. Im pretty sure I have a 90% winrate against lars because some of us Lars mains just don’t use the brain.
Lars isn’t annoying , the way people play him is
@@shaghilathar3588 Yeah that’s what I meant to say thanks for the correction.
Alisa: I don't feel like playing Tekken anymore. Time to not play Tekken.
As someone who had picked up Raven early on before dropping nun, he isn’t a problem. He isn’t really that bad compared to others.
I use King but to this day I still suck using his chain grabs
@@MrCjosue24 the fact is you can't really count on King's chain grabs after red ranks. I mean: you surely can use them as mixup options, but you can't spam them because people are definitely going to escape them.
And that's kinda fair tbh.
@@giulius_99 I just always use normal attacks
@@MrCjosue24 that's a wrong approach too imho. King is all about mixups.
Leroy definitely the ones that constantly parry
I can’t wait for Marduk
As a xaiyou main i run into alot of zafinas and alisas so i cheese them.
Bryan should be on this list
Agree, but not really high. Alisa, hwoarang, king, Dragunov and Zafina are way worse haha
@jessemooij9952 his guard breaks at the wall feel way more cheap than kings throws
3+4, 2 (charged) can be sidestep to the right, and if you're talking about taunt just stop techrolling mindlessly.
@@SergixGhost it's almost aways used at the wall so sidestepping isn't an option. He also has really good attacks from grounded, so you don't need to be mindless to get cheesed out
Dude.. King, Law, Eddy, Raven & Kuma online (Alisa if the player is decent) Their chains are damn near invincible.
King, Reina , lili for me
King - grabs
Reina - ff2 spam no matter what
Lili- ridiculous backturn bullshit
Lili has always plagued tekken. But Reina mains spam like their life depends on it
A quick tip for Lili backturn stance, if you block her 1,1 or df3+4 into bt transition, just dick jab, shuts down all of her options.
You can powercrush out of most ff2 spam option for Reina. Or just 1 jab check.
me as a reina main, if you don't block the ff2 or 112 then we keep doing that. also most reina use 3+4 after ff2f including me, so try to duck or low parry it.
What’s so scary about Lili BT?😭
She gets all these plus frames but has no true way of capitalising from it
Yall need to hit the lab and practice against Lili please🫠
I promise you she’s not as cheesy as u think 😭
My top 10 for this new patch of t8 would be
Leroy
Feng
Xiayu
Dragunov
Jin
Law
Shaheen
Nina
Yoshi
King
Each time I listen to your voice, I envision a much older person
Zafina being more annoying than Xiaoyu when Xiaoyu is 20x more evasive makes me laugh. Me being a Zafina main seeing her make #1 makes me laugh too
Thank God, Steve and Kazuya aren't here.
What maniac is out here complaining about kazuya
@@wolfzafox229kazuya has boring offense sequences like his wall vortexes. he’s really strong in general, but his buffed tracking in heat makes him annoying as shit
Steve is definitely super annoying, probably around the king area outside of top 5
Steve main here - I can confirm we are annoying to fight, we're never minus and before you know it we press back 1 and say goodbye to your health.
Steve and Kazuya aren't really annoying to fight against. They're just incredibly boring. You know exactly what their gameplan will be every time you face them
dragunov hate slowly dying down
*me a Lars player not seeing him on the list*
Lady’s and gentlemen, we got em
No Heihachi? Wow
3:01 bruh dont cap
clones are safe on heat (-3) and not safe outside heat (-14)
Need a list on the most honest characters in this game honestly cause tbh there literally aren't any lmao
cant believe you did not nina and put zafina at first spot 😂😂
My 2 mains are in the list😭