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Actually this is a very Western perspective. In cultures where soap opera dominate the prime time slot like South Asian and South American, the main girl has always been the innocent angel "other woman" and the fiancé or wife of the husband is this evil enemy of true love. This has been the case for at least 4 decades. The husband, the male lead, would then GASLIGHT the hell out of the fiancé and wife character, saying "I don't feel anything for (the main girl)" "You are just imagining things" "You are acting crazy!" until the evil fiancé/wife character did something that crossed the line like trying to kill the other woman. And when the male lead get together with the main girl finally, "I love you since the moment I saw you." This is what soap opera and romance novel think that is every woman's fantasy. To be with a rich caring man, who of course already has a wife/fiancé/girlfriend, because if he's good, why would he be single? That is a trope we can all live without.
Are you guys at "The Take" aware that this comments section is brimming with hostility and judgement toward the titular Other Woman? I can't, no matter how warily or diplomatically, share the story of the dual sided affair that led to my loving marriage without getting an *avalanche* of hate from your indignant viewers. "Hate them both but hate him more" seems to be all 95% of your viewers got out of this compassionate and open minded, thought provoking video.
My "mistress" experience~ Once an Adulterer Always An Adulterer? * an autobiographical essay * It's often, and on the whole wisely, said that if a person lies to and cheats on their spouse, he or she would make a terrible partner. They will eventually, *inevitably* lie to you. Savvy, intelligent therapists will tell you this. It certainly isn't bad advice. And yet… This will likely be an unpopular statement to which many will object-and I'll try to explain-but: I don't *entirely* believe this received wisdom, that if someone lies to one person they will inevitably lie to you, is *always* true. Seven years ago, when my fiancé and I got involved with each other, through a gradual, morally tormenting process, we were both married to other people. Both, perhaps to varying degrees, unhappily married. In his case it was a sexless, high conflict marriage that he wanted to save--but wasn't enjoying very much. He often felt bossed and bullied and resentful. They were on their fourth couple's therapist in just a few years. Nothing seemed to work for very long. There was a stubborn divide between them. I know this, as his confidante, though of course only he could tell the details of his story. For myself, I was finally depleted and heartbroken after twenty years of being judged, told how to live, and increasingly ignored by what I understand in retrospect to have been a grandiose narcissist: My beloved husband. As soon as my much older husband lost his exceptionally vigorous and viril health, the ugly sides of his personality that he'd apparently transcended through our extensive couple's therapy came back. Literally as soon as he was diagnosed with a slow growing, slow spreading prostate cancer he started attacking my choices and pushing me away. It was like the benign and lovable Dr. Jeckle side of him that our therapy had brought out had abruptly, from one day to the next, reverted back to angry, aggressive Mr. Hyde. It was then that my marriage began its descent into failure. He used sophisticated thinking about arbitrary thresholds to argue that he did not have cancer at all. When he threatened to refuse treatment I was beside myself. Then the shutting me out excellerated. I accused him of cheating on me with the television, since it was his true companion and he would angrily silence me so that he could devote his full attention to this electronic mistress. Being ignored felt so bad, I'd often cry alone in the bathroom in the evening while he watched TV. I'd given up trying to tell him what I felt and needed. He had been dismissing and ignoring my pleas for a closer, more mutually respectful relationship for seven long years… I felt I would have rather been single and alone than teased by his presence yet denied connection. It made me hysterically unhappy. People assume that a younger wife has lost attraction to her aging husband, but I hadn't lost attraction or interest, and his sometimes overtly expressed disinterest in me was excruciating. One afternoon, after taking post op care of him for eight weeks, I noticed his impatience and hostile tone and said, "Apparently you don't enjoy talking to me anymore." It was a fear, an exaggeration I assumed was not entirely true. "Unfortunately that's true," he said. Shocking me, and hurting me, to my core. So that was *my* situation. My partner in adultery didn't want to leave his spouse because he had a very young daughter. I didn't want to leave because my difficult husband--once a paragon of health and vigor-was now in steep decline. I told my spouse the truth about the incipient affair. (In fact I asked for and received his permission before meeting in person with my new potential love.) My now-fiancé-then-paramour committed the ultimate lie of omission. He cheated in secret. And he felt very guilty. And so did I. About all of it. I felt guilty about his wife, and about his very young child. That's why we kept *trying* to stop chatting on Messenger for two or three hours every night… Then on the phone in the afternoon. We did try. We tried to resist the thirst to talk with each other about Shakespeare and the true, supernatural meaning of the Shroud of Tourin. Resist the pleasure of making up long streams of nonsensical poetry together at midnight. And sharing stories from our lives. We tried. And we deliberated a long time before finally giving in to the gravitational pull and meeting in person. It was like an illicit tree, very green and too stubbornly alive to be chopped down. -When we finally met (met again really, we'd known each other in high school, in a kind of unforgettable way)... …when we finally met and eventually kissed…when he grabbed me and kissed me…stopped holding himself back and started kissing me *constantly,* as we drove around together in my car… -I'll never forget those explosive kisses!- …it felt like I had entered the music of the spheres, that heavenly realm of celestial singing in the cosmology of the ancients… But there were casualties. The affair was never discovered. His wife never found out. But his feelings for me and chatting-together-five-hours-a-day involvement with me intensified the emotional distance between them, thus undermining their marriage. After about six months of being okay with my non-monogamy, my naturally choleric husband became intensely, painfully, Angrily jealous. "It seems like you two are having the affair of the decade" he'd say sarcastically. (In my celestially enamoured heart I believed it was more like the greatest affair in a quarter century at least.) By the time his approval turned to obsessive jealousy, I knew I had found my soulmate and was not willing to let the outside relationship go. He never asked me to actually, knowing, he said, that making it forbidden would only inflame my "besotted" state, as he called it. Thus in a way I hurt my husband more with my honesty than if I had lied. I've been told I "should have lied." But lying to him would have been impossible, given his beliefs! He insisted on what he called "radical honesty" in all personal relationships. To lie to him would have been the ultimate betrayal. Eventually both marriages ended. My husband passed away on his own terms after a year and a half of turmoil between us, even during the several months when I took a break from my affair to focus on him. (He was always condemning me about one thing or another. At least our very final words to each other were redemptive.) My lover's wife decided to leave him, finding him to be too angry a person. Now we're an out and public, engaged couple, though very few know our origin story. It's hard to say when we became engaged. In a way we always were, from before the first kiss. I'll always remember our shared, besotted elation, wandering from room to room of our love nest (we called it Castleview after a side street nearby) talking constantly and kissing occasionally… I'll always remember when he said to me, standing there shirtless, bronze skinned, and a bit tubby, "Can you be my mistress, like, forever?" Or the morning when we talked about how this "might be all we ever have." "Might?" I asked, beginning to wonder whether he really loved me as much as he seemed to. "Well, I mean, would you even want to be in a real relationship with a guy like me?" he replied. I said, "Everything is on the table except abandoning my husband." After that we talked excitedly as we made the bed. Then he very understandably got scared. He had an adorable very young daughter, the young family he'd long wanted. I understood. Later we were sweeping the hallway, busily chatting again. I said that just knowing he would consider a real life with me meant the world to me. "Does that make me a bad person?" I asked. He swept me up into his arms, almost dipping me as if we were dancing, "You're not a bad person sweetie" he said. The way he held me…it felt as if I was made of light. That night he wrote to me by Messenger "You have been a blossom of loveliness." So when he finally woke one morning, his divorce at last almost finalized, and said to me "Will you marry me?" he was just making official what we had long known and felt. This is for life. -Once after a fight, I asked him "Do you want me to leave?" "I want you to stay and make a life with me" was his answer.-- We're both older now and feel less need for illicit thrills, though it wasn't ever really about that. We were just two unhappily married people who fell madly in love with each other. My partner works at home and we're hardly ever apart. After seven years together, I have no fear that he's cheating. (One reason I can trust him is that he knows I wouldn't throw him away over one indiscretion, if that should happen.) *Primarily* I have no fear because we're so right for each other. Best friends with affection all day-and with passion for each other still. We've had *serious problems,* immense, intense conflict, probably because we both had combative, to be honest pretty F'd up parents. Lovable and loving-but f*cked up. Yet we've chosen each other and only each other again and again. But, when I think of the moral boundary we violated, the word that usually comes to mind is "sin". [continued next comment]
[conclusion to previous comment] Don't they say: We all sin? I can't undo what I did. But I will try, in this second half of my life, to avoid sinning again. And as for his sin: Sometimes people cheat and lie to their spouse because they feel trapped and don't want to wound their children with divorce... I can't imagine lying to my late husband, but I know my honest approach hurt him very deeply. And the turmoil of it all-juggling two hyper assertive and demanding Alpha males, sometimes fighting with both of them on the same day-nearly wrecked me. And my fiance still feels guilty about the adultery he committed when another woman was his wife. His first wife and the mother of his child. The guilt persists. These are complex issues... I'm grateful for what I found and chastened by how I found it.😔🥀 *
@@panasit Very interesting! Quite interesting actually. Very different cultural norms / tropes. Gaslighting is pretty inexcusable... Some thoughts: There's this assumption that the mistress is a single woman and her married lover is high status. Not always! When I was a mistress I was already married--trapped in an unhappy, devolved marriage, to a high status male. I guess when we tell these stories, like Water For Elephants, the young, lower status male lover is imagined to be single. He rescues the trapped unhappy wife. Somehow we think this is romantic, though it's certainly adultery too. Anna Karenina was married to a more high status man when she gave up her status by falling in love with Count Vonsky, becoming, as she calls herself, "his mistress." So those are two non standard scenarios. Mine (see personal essay as comment above) was a third non standard scenario: Two unhappily married people falling in love, utilizing honest non monogamy on one side and more traditional cheating on the other side. Result: No one got caught but the affair partners ended up happily married, still carrying a certain psychic burden of guilt. Life is complex is all I'm trying to illustrate...
Honestly though, being the other woman is just a bad investment. If the guy cheats on his current partner, it says a lot about his character. He is not a prize.
Well, my paramour and I were unhappily married to other people. I did the honest non monogamy thing so I could save my heart and be with someone who actually gave a sh*t about me; he went the more conventional cheating rout. We both felt *very guilty* . But also VERY in love with each other. The affair never came to light. His now ex wife left for her own reasons, which left us free to resume seeing each other. Seven years later we're joined at the hip, engaged, and happy. I'm not proud of our beginnings, but I am glad we began, and found each other.
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 sure but will you be up for having an open marriage should he grow tired of you? Or do you think he’ll prefer to just cheat in secret?
@@dinkyboss Uh, neither. (Though I used to fret about that very issue.) He's getting too tubby and middle aged and exhausted for such shenanigans, and I know how to keep things *lively and spicy* enough to keep a reasonable, rather than narcissistically greedy, man content. And I let him joke about his fav fantasy, blow job harems, like, *constantly.* I don't object to or interfere with his enjoyment of his irrepressible and BIZARRE ass fantasy life. It's quite funny actually! Every day ends with about 50 inane blow job jokes. It's Adorable. 🤗😄🤗
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 if you both were not happy why don't you just broke up? is so simple... and are you sure you was the only one in his life? really..
"She stole my husband!" No Lady, your husband did his choice of leaving you for her . While i don't think high of anyone who gets involved with someone on a relationship (knowing it) it bothers me that the cheater is seen as an object that the other two parts fight over , instead of a human being with free will
I agree that we should not only blame the other women but the men as well. But please DO NOT CONDONE such act! The other woman are also well aware in what they are getting in and that the man is married or in a relationship. In my personal opinion, both man and the other woman are at fault and in most cases, they make the wife appears like crazy or boring. I have witness in my family where the other woman really wanted to break my parent's marriage where she called everyday and insulted my mother. So, please not all other women are victims as there are some who contributed to this. If we start condoning and justifying such acts so, these actions will become acceptable and most other women will try to victimise themselves. There are a lot of families which have been broken because of such affairs and its the faithful wife and innocent children who are hurt in the end.
Yep, one party may be the more heinous of the two, but both cheaters are definitely in the wrong. . Also, you're right that the stories usually make the wife/gf look boring (oe prudish), crazy or (less often, but sometimes) physically ill and therefore unable to attend to her 'marital duties' as if that justifies adultery and betrayal. Like, c'mon! Break up with them or get a divorce. Yes, even if they're ill (or maybe ask if they're open to poly) because it's better to let them know you're uninvested to some degree than to betray them emotionally and physically. . But no one wants to *admit* they're the 'bad guy/gal' for cheating or leaving (especially if the partner is ill) so they blame-shift. . It's not even wrong to want to have your own emotional or physical needs met, but they almost never even try to communicate or be honest (or just honestly leave) their S.O. in order to find a healthier or happier relationship. It's usually just that the unfaithful partner doesn't want to leave their comfortable lifestyle or tarnish their 'white knight' image or put up with the hassle of separation, while still wsnting to get their kicks or the 'novelty rush' or the admiration of a lover who thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread (since they don't ever have to put up with their darker side like the cheated-on partner who lives with them does).
Okay the “other” woman is not “just another girl looking for love & understanding”. She’s also in the wrong when she’s complicit in cheating a woman who thinks that she’s in a monogamous relationship. Ofc, the man is more at fault.
Yeah that part rubbed me the wrong way, she could be just a girl looking for love and understanding with a man that isn't my father and not destroying my family and betraying my mother, who also was her best friend. She had understanding, on my mom, and decided to fuck her up by fucking her husband
Yup, as long as the majority of the blame is placed on the person in the relationship, I don't see why we can't call the other person wrong. Yes, you're not a decent person if married or taken people are a kink to you. Introduce yourself with that facet of your personality and no woman will be your friend and no man will want to be in a commited relationship with you because you don't respect commitment. Although you should never get more than 30-40% of the blame because you didn't break a promise to anyone.
@@maheenm.k1015 We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is. 'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy. And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
@@baonguyenxuanthai711 there was nothing inherently complex about the so called other woman. This video while wonderfully produced was an exercise in COPE. Women are still partly blamed because they are thought of to be the fairer sex so all types of excuses are made as to why they would stray (if they are involves in a serious relationship) instead of taking their infidelity at face value. Women can be scoundrels too.
I really can't agree here, not completely. I think there's a false dichotomy here. I do agree that the focus on the mistress as the seductive villain out to "steal men" is misogynistic and pretends that the man has no agency, or the primary responsibility, in the situation. The way they are portrayed as disposable objects in media is also disgusting. However, I also think this framing of The Other Woman (who is aware of her participation in the cheating) as an "equal victim" who "just wants to find loooooove" is also being unfair and, in a larger sense, also patriarchal. Choosing to be a mistress (note, choosing, not being tricked into it) is a profoundly anti-feminist action because it is contingent on a woman collaborating with a man to participate in behavior that she knows disrespects and harms another woman. Her and the wife's expectations are NOT identical. The wife's expectations of the man were reasonable, honest, and harmful to no one, as they both agreed to a monogamous partnership; the mistress's expectation of the man were that she would help him conspire against his wife and, in exchange, reap the benefits of his affection. Regardless of her underlying motivations, she is centering a man's pleasure over another woman's dignity. Yes, the mistress is a complex human being - but so is the husband, and that should hardly earn him any sympathy. All human beings are complex. But complexity does not absolve a person of their actions. I consider cheating to be a form of emotional abuse, and no matter how complex a mistress is, the fact remains that she is participating in that abuse. The husband is primarily responsible, yes, but just because you didn't stab someone yourself doesn't mean you get off for gleefully handing over the knife. Yes, the man is an agent and not a static object to be fought over. But the Other Woman is ALSO an agent and not a static object that the man merely bats around and plays with like a cat toy. Being an Other Woman is a "patriarchal bargain," i.e., a way that a woman makes herself an ally to patriarchy in order to elevate her own position within it. Examples would be a female politician who campaigns for women to return to the kitchen, the female partner of a pimp who helps sell sex slaves, or in some cultures, the mother-in-law who abuses her daughter-in-law because she herself was abused as a DIL and now it's "her turn" as the new matriarch of the household. Women make patriarchal bargains for understandable reasons, that being the desire to partially escape the pain of patriarchy themselves, but these bargains are a large part of why patriarchy is able to continue standing - because it divides women and their motivation to dismantle the system. So while we may be able to sympathize with the motivations behind these bargains, we cannot afford to minimize their harmful effect or the responsibility that women themselves have to refuse making them. And this whole attempting to strip the Other Woman of all antagonism and frame her as "just another victim" is contrary to that pressing need, it ignores the fact that women hold up patriarchy too... On another point, this idea that "cheating doesn't happen in happy relationships" is also victim-blaming. It is essentially based entirely on a cheater's post hoc claims that they were unhappy and a lack of questioning as to where this unhappiness comes from. We assume that it must be derived from legitimate grievances, but we know for a fact that this isn't always true, people can be "unhappy" for entirely unreasonable reasons. You know what else doesn't happen in happy relationships? Physical abuse. Men will often claim that women provoked them into violence through excessive nagging, poor household care, etc., but we rightfully don't assume that she actually is a nag or poor housekeeper (not that either of these would justify the violence), more likely that this is what he perceives her as due to his warped expectations of entitlement and misogyny. Yet when a man cheats on his wife and claims that it was because he was unhappy in the relationship, we suddenly take his word for it? People, please: A man who disrespects his wife and causes her pain is *not* a trustworthy source of information on how good of a partner *she* is. Don't mistake narcissistic rationalization for "complexity." I'm sorry The Frame, but you don't get to pick and choose when "sisterhood" applies. Yes, OW should be understood as a person and not an object to be sacrificed on the altar of a man's reputation as a "family man." But OW also doesn't get to make a patriarchal bargain to sacrifice another woman on the altar of a man's penis and narcissistic self-image as a "player" and then come running back crying, "What about empathy for your fellow woman?!" when the consequences of that behavior backlashes on her.
Exactly. Absolving someone who is knowingly involved in a cheating relationship is bs. They may not have the same level of responsbility as the cheating partner but they absolutly share the blame.
@@Lillithowl To make matters worse, I remember reading reddit posts (and other websites) where women have said that they prefer to date married or taken men and that they don't feel bad about it.
OMG, thank you! I honestly love this channel, but I thought they were completely off with this analysis. As you said, anyone who cheats, to me, is an unreliable narrator of the true situation of their marriage. This is just lazy and seriously reaching.
I have to disagree here. I've been the other woman before, and in NO WAY was I the victim. I deeply regret it, the only victim there was the poor girlfriend, the guy I liked left her for me and until today I feel terrible. If you try to get with someone who you know is a relationship you're in the wrong, ofc the cheater is the one who's breaking the trust and betraying their partner, but you're participating. Also, if you're someone's friend and try to get with their partner you're also betraying someone's trust, while I've never done this, I've known people who have gone through this and they're often more hurt by the fact that their friend betrayed them than the fact that their partner cheated. Edit: I've seen some confusion about my story, maybe it was the way that I phrased it. But I didn't "steal" my best friend's bf. The girl my ex was dating wasn't my friend, I hardly knew her. It doesn't make what I did any better, but I just wanted to clarify that because friendship is sacred to me and I would never do anything like that to a friend.
Im just wondering did you and the cheating dude work out? Im sending no hate towards you. I really admire that you are recognizing your wrong choices and admitting it but i got curious because from what i have seen those kind of man dont change.
Just like I said once before. Love The Take, but there isn't one bad woman trope you don't try to rehabilitate into being a victim of the patriarchy, while bad man tropes are simply bad because of the patriarchy. I do agree that the focus on the mistress as the bad person while the man who cheated is treated as blameless is extremely misogynistic, and he sure deserves more blame than her. But the mistress is no victim (if she knows the other person is in a relationship), especially when she is friends with the person cheated on in the first place.
YES! I thought EXACTLY the same thing. I'm a hardcore feminist, but we still need to hold ourselves accountable when we do wrong, and that Definitely includes cheating.
it has nothing to do with patrarchy,hurting someone that you love is hard thats why we divert our anger to the other person(its much easier) and this goes for both the gender(men literally get into fist fight with other guy which might lead to someone being dead),its just that women using social isolation and torture to hurt other women while man use physical
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is. 'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy. And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
If you actually talk to the other woman, it's all about an ego boost. The ones I have encountered are competitive with other women. It's more about feeling superior over another woman than it is about finding true love with a man. lol
Blaming "the other woman" can have patriarchy attributed to it, but there's another reason that's a lot simpler: when we put all our emotions, including our trust into a relationship, we're attacked to our core when someone breaks that trust. It's a traumatic experience to go through. And it's easier to hurt the other lover because they're already demonised by others, and you're less likely to know them as intimately. As for the other lover...right amount of attention at the wrong time can make all the difference.
@@FabalociousDee It's the same reason a step mom like myself is sometimes blamed for the children's neglectful parent. I urged my late husband to be a better father to his adult kids. He didn't really listen. So I was blamed for his neglect of his first born daughter. By the daughter herself that is. 6 years older than me, with more status and advanced degrees, she became my "wicked step daughter." Though really his adult kids were my step-peers. Awkward. People don't want to blame the person they love and long to be loved by...😔😪😔
No one is innocent there. If a woman knows the guy (or woman) is taken, tf is she involved with him/her? And vice versa if we are being honest: guys involved with married women/men. Having said that, it ALL comes down to the spouse- they have a choice, stay with the family and fix the issues or ruin it all over a fling.
No offense (The take )but I feel like your excusing the other women and her actions a bit too much . Although it's not solely her fault in the affair and it should always be blamed on the spouse ,Erasing the other women for her actions she knew would hurt people but just didn't care until she faced consequences isn't the way to go ether .Both parties participating in the affair should be held accountable in their own ways.
Angelina, I agree. To me, it's like the video is a "Sympathy For The Devil" type narrative. Seems like society wants sympathy for the woman, almost solely because she's a woman. Like take the film "Cruella" for example. Why didn't PETA and animal rights organizations boycott the film, due to her kidnapping and butchering puppies and dogs, turning them into clothes? Imagine if someone tried to make a film about Michael Vick, that person would be ran outta town and never come back
using Carrie to evoke sympathy, regardless of the trope, is a rookie mistake. Carrie Bradshaw was/is a one of the most unhealthy, toxic, selfish, manipulative, judgmental and unforgiving protagonists in the past 20+ years. it's hard to take this seriously when we're presented with the notion that Carrie was also a victim in her affair with Big. the only victim was Big's wife. the other two are equally complicit. defenses of Carrie, no matter the context, make me itch. ugh
Carrie was a sick narcissistic fool who tried to control and manipulate those around her. She treated men like crap so I always enjoyed watching her get dumped.
This attitude that women can do no wrong and blaming everything on the patriarchy actually strikes me as the opposite of feminist. Women have choices and autonomy- if you choose to be in a relationship with someone who is already committed to someone else, that was your choice. Nobody forced you to do it. Women, like men, are self determined people.
Women have to be honest with themselves, each in her position, and admit that for them male love/validation is precious. That’s why they engage in affairs to begin with or hold accountable more the other woman than “their man”. If we are courageous enough to face this truth, the solution from here will come much more organically.
It's not that women can do no wrong.. It's just pointing out the fact that women are blamed disproportionately than the men who cheat.. That's as simple as this discussion can get..R U guys as saying that women do deserve that disproportionate blame and judgement! ?
@@t_gr4809 how the fuck did you translate the meaning of this comment like that in your mind?? I knoww the women are being held more accountable than men in cheating cases. For men that is just convinient, what pains me is the women that would hold accountable each other more than the man and the reason behind that is because the love of the man is so precious to them. That doesn’t mean by any means that women deserve that. But internalized misogyny is very sneaky, it can come even from the human need to belong. And it is a very delicate matter bcs if it’s being called out it can easily be translated that is women’s fault why they are being abused. Women are not united with each other in any issue that violates their gender. Now, the question is: “How can we spot the weak spots within ourselves, the needs that make us by into patriarchal bullshit, without pointing fingers to the other women bcs that only would perpetuate the fight within the gender. Everything you are honest with within yourself you can the power to trancend it. That is what I meant by that comment.
@@t_gr4809no ofc not but they chose to be in a relationship with a taken man they’re aren’t babies their grown adults who made that decision they should be blamed
I don't want to feel 'bad' for a woman who chooses to do this to herself. I feel bad for the woman who gets this done to. All human beings are complex but projecting my sadness and issues to ruin someone's life is not ok. Choosing to hurt another woman isn't any sisterhood.
@Music Case this mode of thinking is toxic. Even if I have no relationship to you, I *do* owe you something: basic decency. As a human being. We all owe that to each other. Partaking in something you know is going to cause great pain and suffering is a violation of human decency. Yeah, the cheating partner moreso, but you can't pretend a choice isn't being made on the "other woman"'s part
This trope has always rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously it’s a shitty thing to do when you engage romantically/sexually with a married or romantically involved man/person but most of the shame should be placed on the person who actually cheated. I never liked how people were always so quick to place blame on the mistress/man who sought after people in relationships. While they might know what they’re doing, they’re not the ones who are in relationships. A home wrecker can only wreck a home if someone lets them in
Agree and i feel like a lot of stories don't show this enough, if a man has proven himself able to cheat then they will cheat. And in most cases if they marry the misstress they will cheat on them too.
Right? Girl, you've got a front row seat to how this man views and treats the woman in his life, it's not going to be different for you. Don't be a fool.
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is. 'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy. And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
I read in a psychological study or survey somewhere (I'd have to look it up) that in affairs where men cheat women are blamed, & where women cheat, women are blamed. Whether it's the wife that's blamed for "pushing him into the arms of another" or the other woman for being a "homewrecker that stole a husband", women are more likely to be blamed than men.
@@Passions5555 2017. It was a small but interesting study from Cardiff Metropolitan University. I got curious one night & looked up "do men or women get blamed more for affairs?" and read a couple psychological articles, this study being included in one of them. But there was another survey that, if I recall correctly, indicated women are more likely to blame 50% the mistress & 50% the husband, whereas men are more likely to just blame 100% the wife & 0% the 'other man'; which meant women get the greater net blame. I can't recall how I found this (now elusive) survey, sorry, but maybe you're better at finding it. I'll try looking for it if I have time.
@@ec6621 That's true. Men will totally blame the wife 100%. I've heard men say "I'm not going to blame the man for what a woman does." Very interesting.
@@cpeacenlove Personally, I'd agree with that. I'm more likely to blame a cheating husband 100% & the mistress 0%. I've held that opinion for nearly my whole life. But women, it seems, are more likely to be angry or disagree with me, insisting I change my mind. Meanwhile men don't come at me but they don't openly agree with me either lol. Overall, I know my opinion is probably in the minority of women, but I also know I'm helping to balance the gender blame imbalance.
The only situation where the other woman isn't to blame is the one where she didn't KNOW she was the other woman. Trust me, finding out you're the other woman is just as bad as finding out there is an other woman.
This! Like the man could be lying that he’s single. This is the only time the other woman shouldn’t be blamed. The only time both should be at fault (is if it takes two to tango) is if both know about whether one or both are taken but still dance regardless.
@@Riskofrain527 I've been in both situations and imo they're equally shit. Like, when you find out you're the other woman, there's an extra layer of guilt there, because you do feel guilty as well, like you should have known, so in a way it's worse because when you get cheated on at least the feelings are clean
Both parties are to be held accountable and i would say the person who cheated is more to blame since it is them who inflicted this hellish pain to their partner. But the other person should be held accountable as well and it is to blame since they started a relationship with someone who was in an other relationship and when there are children involved it is even worse. If this third person doesn't know then she/he is a victim as well, but if they do they are as much to blame. If you haven' experienced the pain this kind of situation creates then please do not comment on this subject matter since it destroyes lives not just one life but multiple ones and relationships. If the marriage was so horrible which in the majority of the cases it isn't then you can just leave and not cheat. Just leave it is the right thing to do not simple but the right one and the pain from the separation that your partner will feel it will be much less than the pain created by the betrayal. Speaking from experience!!
“Just another girl looking for someone to love and understand her.” I’m going to take a leap and say you fundamentally do not understand the pain of someone you trust being unfaithful. In your quest to take down the patriarchy, don’t condescend to the harmed woman: you’re not giving the wives and girlfriends enough credit, so many of them DO blame the husband or boyfriend for cheating more than the “mistress.” Also, of all the onscreen portrayals of the other woman, Carrie Bradshaw was really your best for the sympathetic mistress? Being complicit in deception isn’t a feminist empowerment moment or “OMG I’m so misunderstood/dangerous/quirky.” In your ending, you make the claim that a woman who is scorned through cheating can come out stronger as another kind of woman-I thought you were against the whole “pain as Phoenix moment” trope?
it has nothing to do with patrarchy,hurting someone that you love is hard thats why we divert our anger to the other person(its much easier) and this goes for both the gender(men literally get into fist fight with other guy which might lead to someone being dead),its just that women using social isolation and torture to hurt other women while man use physical
I'm once again going to risk being pilloried in this comments section. Have you ever read Tolstoy's novel Anna Karenina? It's about 800 pages and incredibly beautiful and a wonderful read, especially in the new translation. In any translation, but especially the new translation. Anna is a early middle aged married woman who becomes the "mistress" of a younger man, Count Vronsky, a military officer. As we read the novel we come to understand that Anna, at a young age, chose an anemic marriage, which she was content with until she understood what real love and passion feel like. I once found myself in a similar situation, except that I was, after 19 turbulent years, *wildly unhappily* married, watching my marriage devolve, but married to someone who was too ill in a way that had been going on for a few years and was destined to go on for at least a few more years (my misery began before he became ill) again, he was too ill for me to consider leaving him. It was important that I stay and take care of my ailing, increasingly debilitated husband… My paramour had his own reasons for being unhappy and his own reasons for not leaving--especially a very young little girl who was far too young to suffer parental divorce. So I was in something similar to that Anna Karenina position. I certainly and most definitely *did not* think I was being "quirky"! Or "dangerous." (I and we felt guilty. But also more and more in love.) I was desperate. And I did what I had to do to survive emotionally. Now the two paramors, myself and my partner, have been together for 7 years (his wife never learned of our affair; she had the dignity and control of choosing to leave her devolving marriage). Now my partner and I are making marital arrangements. I've been told over and over again on this thread that I am bound to be cheated on. But I think that is the thinking of a college girl or someone fresh out of college. Young and youngish men can be very restless about romance and sex, even into their early forties. By the time you hit the early to mid fifties, where we are now, the chemical balance in a man's bloodstream changes, less testosterone, more oxytocin. Less lust and a stronger need to bond. And it's simply true that many 2nd marriages are happier, because the two people are more suitable, because they chose one another at a time in their lives when they actually understood what marriage is like and what they need in a marriage in order to be happy. So I don't in any way agree that a woman who finds herself in the other woman position is, necessarily, self indulgently thinking "how quirky and unconventional and rebellious against social mores!" she is. I'm sure there are situations like that. But I'm sure there are also situations like mine, where the person is hysterically miserable after decades of trying to make things work... ...and is simply trapped between a rock and a hard place…
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 are you really comparing your situation to that of a women in 1870 Russia? Unless there is something preventing anyone from leaving the relationship like monetarily depending on them or idk being a woman in 1870 then no. Cheating doesn't become all right. You are all over this comment section trying to defend why what you did was right. It's not. You can have your reasons but it doesn't make them right, cheating is abusing someone's trust and to help others Doo that is also wrong.
I feel like this video should have given more focus to Anne Boleyn. She was the original 'Other Woman' for whom the entire concept of divorce was invented for, so that the King could legally separate from the Queen and marry her. Anne became the Queen and one who was more involved in the affairs of the state than her predecessor. This created political rivals who started scheming her downfall and managed to convince the King to have her vilified and executed once he got yet another other woman who was portrayed as more principled. So in a way, Anne Boleyn was the OG Vilified Other Woman AND Vilified Wife.
Mmmhmm... the concept of divorce existed centuries and centuries before Anne Boleyn was a mere thought. It existed in ancient civilizations like in ancient Egypt for instance, it's always existed in Islam, Judaism, (Christianity too depending on the denomination) and myriads of other cultures, traditions and religions throughout the globe. Divorce was not invented by some white dude in England.
this is my favourite trope. even when there was no cheating, i love when the ex and new girlfriend bond and become friends 😍 examples: jane the virgin, crazy ex-girlfriend
When my dad, a notorious cheater, finally left my mom after 6 years of marriage and two kids to be with one of his mistresses, my mom actually tried making it sound like our new stepmother to be, Cheryl, was "such a wonderful lady!" Mom would talk her up, how smart and successful she was in business, and what care she was taking as a stepmother to us. (Which, really? I think I saw the woman 4-5 times in my life.) This kind of revising turned Dad and Cheryl's extramarital relationship (on both of their parts) as Dad finding a woman who he just HAD to leave my mom for, because she was JUST SUCH AN AWESOME LADY!!1! No, Mom. It took me til adulthood to get it, but Cheryl was not a fabulous lady who just happened to fall in love with a married father of two, any more than my father was some passionate romantic whose joie de vivre was hampered by the burdens of fatherhood. They were selfish, sucky jerks who hurt countless people, and then didn't even manage to stay married to each other for, what, five years? Sorry, there's no hidden feminism in that.
Realest comment here! You can always tell who is in fantasy world when it comes to these real life situations. I agree, both are usually crap people that deserve each other. The philanderer deserves the direct punishment but no one likes a snake either. No matter how much people try to intellectualize it the Other Person will always be seen as a snake who enables poor behavior in my eyes.
your mother is a good woman. she did not trash talk your father or his mistress. she let yall find out on your own. thats what she supposed to do. mistake people do is trash talk their ex. thats immature
Finding out you've been cheated on does real psychological damage. You'll have trust issues for years. Knowing that and deciding to engage in cheating anyway means you're accountable. Both cheating parties are to blame for the resulting damage.
"Leaving me was okay. People leave me all the time, I’m used to it. What hurts like hell is when you made me feel so damn special yesterday, and then make me feel so unwanted today."
I remember starting to get close with a guy who'd, according to him, previously dated a girl in my year who I rarely talked to but they had broken up. Few days later she-without a single word of explanation-throws herself at me, slapping me, pulling my hair out, chocking me. Apparently they hadn't broken up but somehow it was my fault that he'd lied to me. Still got a chunk of hair shorter than the rest of it.
@@mewesquirrel6720 yeah, but it’s also the issue that the ‘other woman’ is demonised without thought, ya know? Without even talking to her first, no checking if the bf was lying?
You need to forgive her. Her trust was betrayed just as much as yours was, and she was lied to, just as much as you were. As much as you judge her for her misdirected anger, I'm judging you from misdirecting yours at her. Women lack political power. I forgive all women, regardless If they uphold the patriarchy or not. None of us are liberated. None of us are free.
@@mickjen her anger isnt misdirected towards the girlfriend, this woman physically assaulted her without her giving her a chance to explain. It isnt patriarchy as she isnt angry about the cheating boyfriend, its self respect as she doesnt want to be hit and slapped for no absolute reason.
Hate how it's always the other woman (sometimes ignorant to the man in question being married) that is deemed the sole "home wrecker". The husband wrecked his own damn home!
Indeed, a man is rarely ever blamed for being a "Home Wrecker" in the same way a woman is, and most of the blame tends to fall on the mistress, when it takes TWO people to cheat, not just one.
Oh my god, the first season of Once Upon A Time had SUCH a frustrating sequence. (Spoilers) Like, Mary Margaret Blanchard was goddamn ostracised from the entire town, but no one raised a freaking EYEBROW at David, who was a consenting part in the affair and was, you know, THE ONE WITH A SIGNIFICANT OTHER. It was at least ten years ago I first watched it, and I've never gotten over that.
I loved ‘The Crown’ depicting Camilla Parker Bowles. Of course, they are not absolved of their behaviour but we don’t have to be a misogynist and compare two women.
Me the ALPHA M*LE of this comment section and me command RESPECT. Right now me telling you to NOT observe any of me nice cool sweet videos. Instead just look at me awesome good powerful thumbnails. Thank you, dear po
@@panasit ok fiction, aside since the crown is not the real story and plays loose and fast with history. in the real world Charles and Camilla never saw each other for years unless at social events and reconciled their relationship in about 1986, after Charles and Diana's relationship had broken down entirely, about the same time Camilla and her own husbands did. however Camilla and her husband didn't divorce until 1995, but had been living apart for a decade, Charles and Diana divorced about the same time a year before her death. in the real world, it was a flawed marriage from the start, they cared about each other, but they were not compatible in the end, and it was always going to be an unhappy marriage, with both of them finding comfort in the arms of others, Charles realised that Camilla was the only one who was for him, whilst Diana embarked on several affairs of her own throughout her marriage. they were both flawed in relation to their marriage and hindsight really is something in the end.
Oohhh yeah not gonna go with that last line: "we need to demystify the motivations of the other woman(...). She's just like any other person, looking for love or connection. We should be accepting that life is messy and contains all sorts of people, all of whom are main characters in their own stories. (...) She might just be a friend we haven't met yet." Yeah, pass. Sure, the cheater is worse than the 'other woman', but come on, unless that other woman is 100% oblivious to the fact that the dude is married, she's also a bad person doing a bad thing. Don't look for love within someone else's relationship! I knew this when I was 13 and in love with my best friend's boyfriend. You know what I did? I told her, and asked her if we could not meet up with the 3 of us for a while, because I needed some distance since I had these feelings. I NEVER persued this guy. Yeah, it sucked, you can't help who you fall in love with, but you choose what to do with this.
But he was your friend’s boyfriend. Sometimes you fall in love with someone and you’ve never met his/her partner. Then having an affair with this person doesn’t necessarily put you in the wrong toward the partner. I mean, you are not the one cheating. We shouldn’t put the blame on the lover in this situation I think.
@@loussis8584 and for that opinion you are a bad person period. you're making excuses for your terrible behavior if you need 400 million reasons why "technically im not in the wrong" THEN YOURE IN THE WRONG. youre a narcisissts that wants to see yourself as the good guy who just "does bad things" when in reality youre just a bad person. actions speaks louder than words
@@loussis8584 And your opinion is pretty pathetic. Work on yourself. You’re willing doing something that’s hurting another person for selfish reasons. Take some responsibility.
Cassie received major flack for sleeping with her friend's ex, yet nobody brought up that Nate was also sleeping with HIS friend's ex. A sad, but accurate, double standard.
its the 'you cant shame the shameless' idea. men are expected to be shitty so the awful things they do are looked over, while women are expected to be better people inherently and we're shamed to hell and back for mistakes we make in a way men aren't. see trump and hilary
I mean,Cassie got involved with Nate after he and Maddy broke up, she didn't "stole" him or "seduced him" , if someone is "the other woman" for Maddy-Nate that would be Jules and even then she didn't know it was Nate the person she bonded with online.
That’s true, but to be fair no one, not even the show cares about MKay that much. If as liked, or given as much screen time as a Maddy, I’m sure the reaction would be different.
I agree the the cheating man is just as responsible but I feel there's no need to portray a woman who knowingly got or stayed with a married man positively. I am all for positive portrayal of the other woman in movies like the other woman (Cameron Diaz) because she didn't know but I can't stand Natalie Portman's character in "The Other Woman". She knowing wrecked another woman's home and also had the gall to be still judge her father for cheating after marrying a cheater. And that movie portrays his wife as a worse character which was the tip of the iceberg.
Nah. Stop saying women “wrecked another woman’s home”. This is a misogynistic mindset. The cheating MALE wrecked his own home. I agree that the “other woman” who knew he’s married should be held accountable. But calling her a “home wrecker” is anti-feminist.
@@exoticsamba492 It's not anti feminist because she also played a part in wrecking that home by agreeing to get involved with him, especially if she seduced him. Plus, it's not gender thing as I'd even call a man who gets with a married woman a home wrecker.
I agree with the take up until a certain point. Let me explain. Cheating is terrible and there is no good enough excuse to justify it. Should we only blame the other woman or claim she is stealing the wife/girlfriend's husband/boyfriend away: No. Because both parties are at fault. The man and said the other woman. Should we villainize the other woman: Not necessarily. The reason why is because you have some women, who have no idea that the guy they're seeing is already in a relationship. What villainizes the other woman is the fact that she is made aware of the closed relationship and continues to see the guy anyway. It's not the fact that she is "stealing away" the husband/boyfriend (because as stated before it takes two to tango) but it's the fact that she purposely hurts another woman that is where I feel The Take gets it wrong. You're building your happiness off of someone else's misery, a person who probably doesn't deserve it. It's one thing if it's an open relationship or whatever arrangement, it should be properly discussed and agreed upon by all parties. But if one party isn't aware while the other two are, sorry to say but that's cheating. That is what villainized Cassie (Euphoria) and Olivia (Scandal) for me. Because they chose a guy over the woman they were friends with. They actively and purposely chose to have an affair with these men, knowing that if their respective friends ever found out, it hurt them. Though I'm sympathetic towards Cassie and Olivia's personal issues and believe they should get some help; it doesn't excuse their behavior. No one forced Cassie to go out with a guy, who is not only a cheater but an abuser. She did it of her own free will. Along with Olivia, who has had an affair with her friend's husband for how long. And the fact that these women choose a guy over their female friends, raises a question: Isn't that action a little patriarchal/misogynistic? So for the answer The Take final question, Are they bad people for doing this: No, cheating doesn't make you evil. I agree with them on that. However they are not completely absolved from what they did. To quote Queen Latifah from Last Holiday "They're never bad people. They're greedy people." But that's just my opinion, I may not have all the answers but I know the difference between what's fair and what's unfair. If anyone is unhappy in a relationship, you either need to discuss it with your partner or just not be together anymore. It sucks and it's awkward but I think if you can get through the puberty/sex talk aka the most awkward and uncomfortable conversation(s) in history then you should be able to survive a breakup talk. And for anybody out there who is being cheated on. You don't need another person to complete you. You were already the shit before you got into that relationship and you still will be when it's over. It's made not feel like it but you are the shit and you don't deserve to be hurt or disrespected not by anybody. And Thanks to whoever is reading this.
THANK YOU SOMEONE SAID IT. It is true that both parties can be at fault, and that both should be held accountable. I think what should be done is to see what drove them to do those things, but never excuse them or say "They're not the ones at fault."
Thank you! This is how I feel. I was cheated on and I blamed both parties. Him for cheating & her for helping him cheat. It takes 2. She actually messaged me on instagram at some point to ask me a few questions which for some reason I answered & so i asked her if it ever occured to her that by her actions, she was helping to destroy someones life & inflict grief and pain? She said it did occur to her but essentially that it didn't matter as much as her own happiness. So there you have it! Cheating is never ok and people who cheat or help someone cheat? Well they're people that for the sake of their own whims/desires have NO problem destroying someones world & causing someone the worst pain imaginable. I don't think much of either of those people. Man or woman. Not saying that's all they are we aren't 2 dimensional charactors but what you do when no one is watching. That says a lot.
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is. 'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy. And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
it has nothing to do with patrarchy,hurting someone that you love is hard thats why we divert our anger to the other person(its much easier) and this goes for both the gender(men literally get into fist fight with other guy which might lead to someone being dead),its just that women using social isolation and torture to hurt other women while man use physical
I'm a feminist but I do find it frustrating that this channel sometimes excuses shitty behaviour from a woman and portrays them as a victim. Yes life is messy and other women shouldn't be portrayed in a misogynistic way but it doesn't excuse the bad behaviour. Another commenter is right that your narrative cheaters aren't happy is a victim blaming one, there are cheaters who are happy enough and simply cheat for the thrill. You did not emphasise enough that Cassie Howard got vitriol from the fandom because she was dating her friend's ABUSIVE ex. I love this channel for the most part but honestly some of these angles are so wack.
Thank you!!!!!! I thought I was the only one that felt this way. A lot of these shows that they used as examples, are not with the most likable characters. For example, I have never liked Carrie from sex in the city, it took me two episodes to know that. They tried to humanise Cassie saying that all she wanted was love when in reality, what she was striving for was kinda pathetic and as a result of daddy issues. Cassie was literally the first person Maddy would go to when Nate did something to her, so she practically knew how horrible he was and she STILL got with him. I loved Scandal as a show but I did not like Fitz, he kinda gave me rich, entitled, frat boy vibes, like how did he become the president of the US? Some times I did not like Olivia and was on the First Lady’s side. Being an other woman is not a victim role. Unless you did not know that the guy was committed to someone else, you are carry some guilt along with the cheating partner.
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is. 'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy. And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
@@baonguyenxuanthai711 I think there's a balance here, of course she shouldn't be vilified and I think Fleabag was very interesting look into this trope, but that doesn't excuse bad behaviour and this channel in particular falls into a very lazy trap of using the patriarchy as an explanation for female villains/antivillains/antiheroes
I walked in on my ex sleeping with another woman. He ran out of the house and left the two of us alone, we spoke and neither of us knew about the other one. I stupidly took my ex back and became friends with the other woman. I then catch them again and it hurt so much worse the second time as she knew I was dating him and was even texting me to help make excuses for him. Now, it was the same hurt from the ex but this extra betrayal from a new friend cut worse. So no, The Take, she is not likely to be "a new friend in disguise". She went from innocent and fellow victim of my ex's lies to becoming a villian alongside my ex.
My ex-husband cheated on me with my cousin. I sometimes feel guilty that they met because of me. Anyways, I'm grateful for the last blow on a crappy marriage. I'm out and proud as a transman now, and I'm sure being trans had something to do with all this even though he knew my truth.
The family element adds an extra dimension of terrible here. I'm so sorry for that shitty experience, Mitch. Glad you're done with someone that's clearly a horrible person though.
@@singularity___ that's kind of you, and I was a closeted transman at the time with an even more closeted bisexual man. Hence, why I feel sorry for my coz, she got a man who at best hates himself.
A shocking yet not so shocking moment was when Princess Diana mentioned that Prince Charles felt he shouldn’t be the only Prince of Wales without a mistress. I mean, how do you even begin to unpack that?
In that case, diana was living in a gold's cage but all women have agency, if you're single you need to spot these red flags, because men always tell us in some way or other how they actually feel about loyalty, exclusivity, monogamy, etc, but sometimes women don't want to acknowledge the facts. For example: in first dates guys have told me they don't believe in monogamy, they wanted to experienced because there are so many beautiful women, and the list goes on. That's why I feel in unfair for blaming the other women, yes, is not feminist to participate in an affair because you're feeding a monster. But you or anyone has always the power to stop it. Don't conform to that, that's how you start, if other women do it or not, let those be their problems but not yours.
In a past where women depended completely on marriage for economic and social security, having an affair with someone’s husband was basically threatening her entire foundation. Now, she can divorce and support herself. But back in the day, it was a bigger deal, and ‘the other woman’ would be aware of this.
This is an important thing to note. It's not all just fun and games and heartfeels. There are serious implications to disrupting a marriage, even to this day. It's threatening livelihoods
I suppose women's financial security is not as threatened now as it was in previous decades. It's only the foundation of a family/home/and life that was painstakingly built together over the coarse of many years. Only the mental and emotional foundation of everyone who was harmed by two selfish people is rocked and damaged. But at least their financially okay so cheating must not be so bad
@@Lalan396 I don't think they were implying that, they were just saying how it could literally and completely ruin a family's life financially and social standing back in the day. It's still horrible, but at least you may not have to starve/become homeless if your husband leaves you. I say may not, be ause there's still a chance you still could be in some societies/circumstances. And there is definitely still some people who will blame you for them leaving too, unfortunately.
True 👌🏿 there was a period in history, not too long ago, where women were considered to have limited legal rights. You either “belonged” to a father or a husband.
its wrong for a woman to engage in a relationship with a man who she knows is married or in a relationship, but its not fair for the girl to only hate the "other woman" and go forgive the man. the man is the one who chose to cheat on you and its mostly his fault.
Pretty much, we should be able to call that kind of woman a shitty person as long as the man gets the majority of the blame because he's the one who broke his promise. What she did is still a shitty thing to do that only a shitty person would do.
Why is a man cheating being portrayed as a positive in this video? Cheating is not okay and should not be treated as a solution to abuse (Joey's mother in Friends). Worst "Take" yet.
I'm sick of glorification of extra marital affair. The Take is disgusting for trying to justify it in the end. You want to have a new chick for your fantasy. Be a man. Get a divorce first. And also I blame the Man for destroying marriage and not the other women, because the other women may or may not know that the guy is married, but the husband knew, he took the vow.
I think consent is the key to all of this, some people are happy with polyamory and open relationships and that's okay too as long as everybody in that realtionship is down with it. But if someone feels pressured into it or doesn't know about it then yes it is pretty disgusting.
In my experience, women who justified it, are women who have slept with married men. You can't called them out, when you are one of them. Source? Me, and old woman with life experience.
being a man does not mean when you find younger hotter woman you leave your wife and family to be with her.hurting your wife is not manly.taking responsibility is manly having emotional maturity and understanding and controlling attraction is manly.boys dont have self control man do
I totally agree with you...I mean problems occur in every relationship and if you have issues sort them out because thats what partners should do...and if nothing works get a divorce...of course its a fact that life is complex and human nature is highly nuanced but blaming the actions of every cheater on patriarchy and absolving every "other women" sets an extremely dangerous precedent...
My friend unknowingly became the “other woman”. The guy was apparently already engaged but his fianceé was working in another country. They dated for almost a year then the guy started giving her the cold shoulder and eventually ghosted her. Turns out her fianceé was coming home and they were getting married. It was fucked up.
Because we as a society know Marriage isn't perfect and there are cracks. So for someone to seek to take advantage of that is generally considered bad.
it's because people don't want to accept that someone they loved and trusted betrayed them. They blame the 'other woman' or 'other man' because that person means nothing to them to begin with so they're a lot easier to hate.
When I discovered my ex was cheating on me I first tried to warn the other girl and wanted to find out if she even knew because you never know...unfortunately she did and they were both to blame but if she hadn't known of me I would've seen her as a victim too.
@@millsgurl8358 Exactly. We can understand their motives and mentality, but that doesn't mean we must accept or forgive their actions. In Turkish, we have a saying: "kadın kadının yurdudur", which means "a woman is home to other women". We basically are not allowed to purposely hurt another fellow woman.
Doesn’t matter if she’s “just another girl looking for someone to love and understand her” you simply don’t get in the way of marriages or pre existing relationships. Thats trashy af
Yeah, the cheating partner is never held as accountable as the one their cheating with, and that's truly bogus. It's not cool to carry on with someone that's known to be married or in a relationship, but their partner is the one they should really be upset with. That's my opinion anyways!
Does the guy hold the "other woman" down and force himself upon her? If so, he should be arrested. If not, and she willingly gets into bed with him, knowing he has a wife and kids at home, she is nothing more than a homewrecker and deserves whatever she gets.
It happens because it’s easier to have a scapegoat and vilify the other woman than to realize the man you love, the man you STILL love, despite his cheating, wronged you. It’s a way the cheated on spouse can continue to be in denial that their spouse doesn’t love them enough to be faithful.
The other woman has time to manicure her nails The other woman is perfect where her rival fails And she's never seen with pin curls in her hair, anywhere.
"To be the mistress of a married man is to have the better role. Do you realize? His dirty shirt, his disgusting underwear, his daily ironing, his bad breath, his hemorrhoid attacks, his fuss, not to mention his bad moods, and his tantrums. Well all that is for his wife. When a married man comes to his mistress... he's always bleached and ironed, his teeth sparkle, his breath is like perfume, he's in a good mood, he's full of conversation, he is there to have a good time with you." -- Embroideries by Marjane Satrapi
I disagree. You (the take) cannot victimise every one all the time. I agree the cheating partner is as much, if not more, to be blamed for cheating, but this does not make the "other woman" a victim either. If a person KNOWINGLY has an affair with a married man she is not a victim with redemption arc. Cheating and breaking a trust of your partner is a horrible thing to do. It affects not only the wife but the entire family. Imagine you are a child of a parent that cheated and then try to victimise the "other woman". If she is not entirely wrong but she isn't right either.
My favorite take on the trope is "the other woman was also lied to and believed that he was single, she finds out he was a lying bastard, tells the wife, and the two of the women team up to ruin his life and then become BFFs"
"Seeking love" does not justify knowingly and willingly participating in hurting another person, especially if that person is someone you consider a friend. Both the man and other woman are wrong, she's not a victim. The victim is the person being cheated on. That's all.
I’m sorry, but no. No to this whole video. Did you seriously just ask your viewers to sympathize with grown ass women who knowingly and willingly engage in a relationship with someone else’s boyfriend/husband? Seriously!?!? While I fully agree that the cheater carries far more responsibility than the other person, asking us to view her as “complex” is just effing disgusting. Women are fully capable of being held accountable for their hurtful actions. Being lonely and having low self-esteem or other issues does not give anyone license to hurt someone else, nor does it make you “complex”. If you engage in an affair with a married man, you are not a victim (unless he is quite literally victimizing you). You are someone who is getting a kick out of being with a man who is willing to jeopardize his whole life just to be with you. You’re just feeding your ego and his. You do not care how this will impact his wife and his family because you’re too busy “saving” him from his unhappy marriage. One that, of course, is never unhappy enough for him to actually leave, but you continue to accept his lies and excuses because he “really loves” you and “the situation is complicated”. It’s not complicated; he just wants to have his cake and eat it too and you’re too dumb and sad to face it. If you have ever felt the betrayal of infidelity then you know all too well that while your partner is the one who should be taking the blame, you can’t help but to think “How could this person, who doesn’t even know me, participate in doing this to me? What did I do to them that they would want to hurt me like this?” You know it’s not logical, but it’s there. The desire to look them in the face and ask why is overwhelming. You want your partner to have to face consequences for their actions, but you want the other person to have to face it too. You want the opportunity to tell them that everything he said to get you into bed is probably a lie. You want them to have to look at your puffy eyes, your splotchy face, and your emaciated body and justify their actions to you. Whoever wrote this clearly has not experienced what it’s like to feel so betrayed. To feel so worthless that you want to curl up and die. To feel so humiliated that your partner lied to your face for so long while you were just living your life with them, having no clue about what was going on right under your nose. To feel like all the years you committed to someone was just a waste. To have to wonder how many times they looked at you from across the room and only felt disappointed and annoyed by your love. To have to see the heartbreak in your family’s eyes when you have to explain why the two of you are no longer together. Maybe if you had endured this kind of pain, you would’ve known better than to make a video in which you’re asking for sympathy for the other woman, fictional or otherwise. This kind of behavior, from ANYONE, is immature at best and totally destructive at worst. Both parities participating in the affair deserve every judgement lobbed in their direction, and then some. This was gross. Do better next time.
Exactly-but hey, at least they end with some not-at-all toxic gems like “maybe after going through this the wife/girlfriend will emerge stronger, more independent (another woman)” and “maybe we should just be more honest, sometimes our partners aren’t attracted to us and want variety.” 🙄
Honestly, even as a kid, I never understood how there was so much more hate for "the other woman" (or man) than there was for the person who actually cheated. Like, sure, knowingly helping someone cheat is a bad thing to do, but you know what's obviously worse? Being the person who actually cheated. Your husband/boyfriend is not some mindless automaton that loses his free will around pretty people.
I do wish you would have mentioned the fact that the Hays Code actually *required* unchaste women to be punished on-screen. This is why so many movies during those years end with The Other Woman suddenly getting hit by a car and dying at the end of the movie.
I generally don't have respect for women that choose to be with men already married (especially men with kids). However the men is the one to be blamed first.
I'll never understand why cheating people will say how their relationship is miserable, and yet never leave the relationship. Like are you really miserable in the relationship? Because if you were then pretty sure you'd be gone by now. Plus you would save yourself from a lot of drama, but I guess you can never take a cheater's word.
I have to disagree with this take. It’s one thing is the man keeps his marital status from “the other woman” in the dark. She’s just as much a victim as the wife to the man’s lies. But if a woman knowingly pursued a man who is married…that’s wrong as well. Obviously, the fault should lie more with the man than the other woman, but nonetheless, she’s still at fault. Now if a woman stays with her many after multiple infidelities and accepts them…well there’s fault with her as well, because her staying with him shows that she accepts it. She can’t blame the other woman for her man’s repeated infidelities.
i dont know about the last bit though. Relationships are complicated but yeah, i don't think you are necessarily at fault or "accepting it". If you stay with someone who hits or cheats on you, only the person hitting or cheating is at fault. Ofc the person staying in that relationship needs therapy but i wouldn't say they are "at fault". If they truly accepted it, there would be a conversation about opening a relationship or something like that, for me cheating is a form of emotional abuse.
@@allysiren when I mean by the married woman being at fault if she stays with her man, I meant that she can’t be mad at the other woman, since her staying with the man means she accepts his behavior. Reading my initial comment, I see how that doesn’t come across well.
@@allysiren married ladies are not victims as well, i know is a hard statement but let's stop feeding victim mentality. The other woman has responsibility but you have it as well the moment you decide to shut your mouth and pretending nothings happening. Sometimes the other woman cares two cents about him or his family, not all mistresses suffer, suffer the ones that care for the dude. And I'm pretty sure he gave you signs he was non commit al the moment you were getting to know him.
I agree on this comment, women are not and shouldn't be responsible for the lives of other women, yes, a woman that contributes to the infidelity of a guy is not feminist, blablabla, but let's stop pretending the ones that were cheated on have no agency, they do, and you need to take your decisions based on your wellness
@@marte1376 they may not always be able to leave, though. The husband may be violent, threaten her, pressure from society, etc. In many countries, divorce is difficult and divorced women have a hard time in society.
No. This is extremely condescending to any woman who’s ever been cheated on and quite frankly, women who choose to ruin relationships and families. With the very distinct exception of a woman who unknowingly cheats with someone who is already in a relationship because she has been mislead and lied to a woman who knowingly cheats with a taken partner of someone else should absolutely be vilified. To say a man who is manipulative and slick is the only reason a woman would become the other woman is a little devaluing to a woman’s ability to be equal to men in terms of sexual desires and power dynamics, women CAN be hurtful villains too, you know, just like men. Hurting another person for the sake of fulfilling your own selfish desires is unacceptable and cruel, it doesn’t matter if you aren’t intently trying to be malicious. Yes, the partner who is cheating should absolutely be held responsible for their actions but so should “the other woman”. This video even seems to excuse cheating by saying that people shouldn’t feel ownership over their partners, it even almost sounds like your saying that that they’re asking for it if they aren’t as awesome as the side chick. I’m done with this channel and it’s contradicting values and views on women.
@@exoticsamba492 If a woman gets into a relationship with a taken man, yes, she is equally the villain. A man can't cheat unless a woman cheats with him. Stop calling everything ''misogynistic''. Ya'll don't even use it correctly
@@wildheart2978 Nope. It IS misogynistic. She’s not “equally” the villain. Unless she your trusted family or friend, she doesn’t owe you anything. Only your man owes you loyalty. And funny how you say “a man can’t cheat unless a woman cheats with him”, as if having the desire the cheat is the woman’s fault. When will you people ever hold MEN accountable alone???
Can we just agree that if the affair partner (male or female) KNOWS the person is married they are equally selfish for participating? So no, they aren't the one who made the vow but they KNOW that they are benefiting and receiving pleasure at the expense of another person. The affair partner is gaining from another person's pain and loss. Cheaters go to GREAT lengths to cover up their infidelity, including gaslighting and verbal emotional/abuse to make the betrayed spouse back down. It's incredibly traumatic for the betrayed spouse. I compare being the affair partner to knowingly receiving stolen items. No, you may not be the one who stole it but you KNOW the item is stolen and that you have no right to it. If someone breaks into a house and steals something from the owner and then they give it to you and you KNOW IT'S STOLEN, it is impossible to receive that gift in good faith. You are not a victim, you are an accomplice after the fact. The affair partner is receiving love, time, attention, and affection that are only supposed to be given to the spouse Again, you are not a victim, you've chosen to be accomplice. Get your own shit.
What people don't understand is that people hate to be cheated on so we're understanding fuled with anger and betrayal I'm not going to let someone walk over me and get the upper hand.
and what are you supposed to do? Let's put the worse of your escenarios where the other woman is giving you war, are you going to compete ? Some say, all is fair in love and war, I still don't know what is a good answer to that
@@marte1376 it's not about love it's about selfishness it really pathetic that someone who thinks has the higher ground just to sleep with someone who's married guess what sweet heart your not special he or she just going to replace you that's it.
@@annasullivan9768 yeah he may replaced you but you're still allowing that to happen and that person is communicating that you're not that important or unique even if you're in a relationship. And actually the ones that believe that are superior are the person actively cheating, your points are twisted and again, you're falling in the trap of blaming the other person because a person doesn't see you as enough. I really don't know what is worse
@@marte1376 I'm blaming both you know when a man is catching his wife cheating it's not a big deal but if it's the other way around every one quickly defends the side girl even though she knew the guy is married.
There is only one person abusing you when your husband cheats..... YOUR HUSBAND. If a guy cheats he is the asshole no one else. Also if he does it with you he will do it to you.
Previously had a couple of men I dated try to make me the other woman after leaving me because I didn't want kids. Their fantasy didn't work out and I was always horrified and enraged on the womans behalf considering the wife was home raising a small child. Really made me view it all differently and no never gone there. I wouldnt do to others what I wouldn't want doing to myself.
My favorite "Other Woman" movie was John Tucker Must Die because all of them were technically "The Other Woman" but they all teamed up to get back at the man who made them that way rather than take it out on each other. In the end, he learned to embrace his polyamory, his interest in open relationships, and at least became more honest. He was never going to be faithful, and it was good that women who wanted that could avoid him.
I usually agree with your takes but this just pure cheating apologia. Yes, ultimately the one who breaks a vow is to blame but becoming a mistress knowingly and willing is also worthy of moral condemnation. There is no need to romanticize it as oh, she's just looking for love. And to suggest that Joey's mom should be happy she's getting cheated on 'cuz her husband's been in a good mood ever since is... well, a choice.
I swear I think The Take staff must take bets every month on what sort of awful behaviors they can try to justify when women are the ones who do it. Cheating is wrong, for both the cheater and the other woman/man. Period. If the relationship is bad or unfulfilling in some way, end it. Or keep torturing yourself. But don't cheat. It's just shitty, unexcusable behavior. To say the other woman is just lonely and looking for love is such a weak argument. You're saying that, because someone wants something, they can try to take that thing from someone else without their consent? Tell me in what other situation that would hold true. I know that things aren't always black and white. I get that. And not all cheating is equally despicable. But it's a matter of "how wrong is it," not "is it ok to do sometimes."
I kind of experienced the reverse of this. (I feel like telling a story, so this the short version of a long situation) When I was in high school, I was in a very toxic, codependent relationship with a boy for a whole year and a half. Throughout that time span, we fought nearly constantly and grew to resent each other, but we were so lonely and insecure that we were afraid to leave each other. We thought that our companionship was all we had in life. (ew) Towards the end of our relationship, I started trying to work on myself. I realized that I couldn't keep mothering this person when I was struggling just to care for myself in my everyday life. I began putting a bit of distance between us while I sorted out my emotions. One morning, we were arguing about whether the bass in "Roundabout" was good, and he spat on me. We went our separate ways. I spend the rest of that day thinking about how that was the first day of the rest of my life being free. I didn't really know what to do with myself, but I did end up listening to some really good new music and started painting again. After school that day, I began walking towards the train station a few miles away. Suddenly, I heard my name being called. It was a boy that I kind of knew. I knew him from the bus a couple years before. He would sit next to me for the ride home every day after school and go on and on about the most irrelevant crap. I was going through some stuff that year, and wanted to be left alone by everyone. When he finally kinda grew on me and I started developing a crush on him, he stopped taking the bus and I didn't see him even once for nearly 3 years. I guess that day he saw me sitting alone at lunch, and the way I was walking happened to be heading towards where he parked his car. He was always a talker, and when we got to talking, we talked about everything. He was the first person I've ever been able to open up to so fast, and he was interested to hear about things in my life that my ex had scoffed at. He walked all the way to the train station with me. The next week was Spring break, and that was tough. My ex reached out, and out of the strange loneliness of sitting at home all week wondering what to do now that we were single, we decided to hang out. I thought we would try out being friends. In the mean time, I also became friends with the new boy. When school started up the next week, we all tried hanging out together. Ex's and my mutual friends liked new boy immediately, but my ex, not so much. It was very hostile and awkward. Anyways, ex, and I grew distant as friendship was not going to work out, and new boy and I grew a lot closer. A few weeks passed, and ex and I decided, very harshly and explicitly, that we would not associate anymore. A couple days after that, new boy and I very suddenly got together. I made the first move, he would have been content just being friends even though he liked me. He and I were happy together in our own little world, actually going out with friends, and reconnecting with some of my old friends. My world opened up a lot, and I learned how to be more mature. Things were really peaceful for us, and I decided I didn't have time for bull anymore. A month later, at the end of the school year, he and I both left that school, so I could pursue independent study for my last year of school. We ended up moving in together part time. What I didn't know was that my ex had gone around spreading rumors that I was stolen from him. I was not stolen, I am not an object, I left because our relationship was quite terrible, my family hated him and his mother hated me, and a whole long list of occurrences. By fate or by chance, I ended up with the affection of somebody who could provide exactly what I needed at the time, and then some. New boy and I are still together, no idea where ex is in life now. Hope he's chillin, hope he improved as a bass player. (Not so) new boy will still talk your ear off, but now I talk just as much. This probably isn't relevant, I haven't even watched the vid yet. We are all beings of free will, not things that can be stolen.
The Other Man is more likely to be portrayed as being in the right or getting redemption at the end. The original husband is more likely to be the villain, like Sack Lodge in Wedding Crashers or Cal Hockley from Titanic.
If women can compromise and agree their partners to have a mistress, men should understand woman can have affairs too. But in reality, it is about controlling women and treating us as collectible items.
You lost me at the 2nd half. The other woman is not always a victim and is not to be befriended or sympathized with. Marriage has, and still is, a form if security for women. When a man seeks a mistress, this becomes a threat to a wife's security and her children. If the affair is 'successful' it will mean the children will have an absent father and inevitable poverty for the wife. I know one woman whose husband cheated on her. At the time she was married with 3 kids. Her husband suddenly decided he didn't want her anymore, ditched her and his kids and got remarried to his mistress. That woman now is now living in a cramped apartment, living on a teacher's salary and single handedly raising 3 kids.
One thing about infidelity, yes, some people willingly get in relationships with taken people, which sets everyone up for failure. But some people are mistresses because the other person lies about their relationship status and he/she is playing both of them. Mistresses get played regardless, though, because they often think they're gonna be with the person.
Can you believe that some of the most well know actresses have been the other woman, but have still managed to keep their popularity up and high. The Angelina Jolie Brad Bitt affair reminds me so much that of Elizabeth Taylor and Eddie Fisher. In a way the two women remind me of each other.
Bridget and Natasha both deserved better than Mark, there I said it. Usually the man in the center aren't great shakes, like comes off as to mediocre to be with these different women (who are irresistible or awe worthy in their own way, sometimes because they put up with HIM). I heard Jackie stopped going to a theater and watching Arthur Miller because his play that put down Marilyn played there. She found it dishonorable. No mention of Monica Lewinsky or ACS Impeachment?
One of the best parts of Legally Blonde was when Elle and Vivian realized that the guy they were fighting over wasn’t actually worth much-his success almost depended on their directing their energies at each other. So they ditched him and became best friends.
There are 2 types of other women. The one who's well aware of the guy's marriage, and the one who's unaware. The one who's aware is a patriarchal ally since her actions benefit men. She sees women as competition and sometimes goes as far as only dating married men to make herself feel good. This woman has internalized misogyny and believes that men are some sort of prize. In that case, she deserves equal blame as the cheating man. But the other woman who is unaware is a victim just as much as the wife. The problem with society is that both of these other women will solely get the home-wrecker blame. In both cases, the true home wrecker is the married man who stepped out on his family.
There's a difference between accountability and villainizing and that's where this situation falls but unfortunately we tend to blur the line between the two. If you are in a relationship and you cheat you are wrong. If you cheat with someone who you know is in a relationship you are wrong. You should be held accountable on that front. But that doesn't always make you the villain, because life is not a movie and there frequently aren't villains, just people.
I like that you point out the other woman not knowing. I had a boyfriend and we broke up, then we started going back out again, but we didn't hang out as much as we had before and he was busier. "Busier". One day I just dropped by, and when is cousin, my good friend told him to talk to me, he told me the reason he hadn't been around as much was out in the garage with his friends. He was dating someone else when he asked be to be his girlfriend again. I left with a bye and didn't talk to him again until he was dating my sister and I was moving out with my now husband.
This trope is everywhere. In « Dirty John : The Betty Broderick case » , where the mistress is portrayed as irresistible too but younger and better and who never partake in the hardships. She is reaping all the benefits and Betty is the villain. I was so mad. She has her shortcomings too but it was hard to watch. At least, the writers didn’t portrayed Broderick as a victim. « In behind her eyes », Louise doesn’t even get some grace when her boss was the one cheating on his wife. She was clearly a woman who were looking for a great love story. Don’t even talk about the power dynamic in that case. The moment she wasn’t cooperating, she was fired. « In 9 and 1/2 weeks », I think they perfectly shown how the other woman can have fun with the married man but how vulnerable and sad she’s truly is. For a married man is more like a sex escapism when in her case , it’s more like trying to find a good partner. But if this man is already cheating on his wife with you, he already showed you who he truly is.
I’m immediately thinking back to how we viewed Monica Lewinsky in the 90s vs now. In the 90s we all completely vilified her & tore her apart, but it’s been amazing to see her reclaim her narrative, and that we’ve all been able to see her as someone taken advantage of by someone so powerful And in the series “Impeachment” we saw that Hillary (however you feel about her) was also a victim of Bill’s actions.
I dunno. My grandfather cheated on his dying wife with her best friend, and as a result married her after my grandmother's death. My mother didn't talk to him for 16 years, so hurt was she by "That Woman".
So let's summarize the points made here: 1. The other woman is not always to blame because the married man is an active participant in the relationship. - okay. Totally agree with that. 2. The other woman might be an ex, and the lines of who belongs to whom might be blurred. - do not agree completely, but I see the point here. Yes it humanizes the other woman and gives a perspective that reality is not black and white. However, I would say, you can be the "down-to-earth" or "destined" lover, yet chasing an ex-lover who took a vow with another person is morally WRONG. I can tell though there's room for sympathy there; people make mistakes. 3. If someone is in a straight relationship and suddenly realizing they are gay, then it's okay to cheat. -Sorry but that is utter bulls*it. The bar of morality does not somehow disappear for homosexual people. If you are in a straight relationship/marriage and realize you were wrong about your sexual orientation, just be honest with your partner, divorce them and then go look for your gay/lesbian lover. Cheating is wrong, PERIOD. There are very areas in live, yes, but please do not try to justify it all in the name of love. There are other things as well, like the sanctity of a vow to another human being, the principle of not hurting other human beings for selfish reasons, respect etc. This is so sick to try to justify wrongdoing cause it was done under the umbrella of "true looove". P.S. I know of a straight couple where the man cheated with another man; sorry it was nothing like Friends. He was horrible to her and no, she did not forgive and put a Ross'like smile on for her husband's true love. As for exes who "belong"ed to each other before the marriage happened, yes it is hard because yours feelings mess with your head; yet you need to learn to politely refuse a married person's advances towards you. Because their new partner haven't wronged you in any way and does not deserve to be hurt. Bottom line, please do not promote wrong behavior. All human beings make mistakes, but those actions are not acceptable.
*THANK YOU!!!* I'm so tired when the media tries to overly victimize the LGBT who get with the opposite sex to hide their true preference. They aren't always poor, oppressed souls who are hiding their true selves in a heteronormative society. Very often, they're only doing it for appearances while doing what you just described. This is very common among religious circles (especially Mormons, go read about this).
This is what I hate about the other woman. Even when she knows her lover is married, she doesn’t respect that. She doesn’t say “no. You’re married. Go away “
the take is the embodiment of “i support women’s rights but most importantly i support women’s wrongs” edit: ofc the other woman is wrong for being compliant in cheating (literally helping to emotionally abuse another woman) and feminism is definitely not about absolving a woman for how she hurts others.
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is. 'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy. And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
I remember in the marketing for The Duchess, they made a point to mention that she was Diana’s direct ancestor. In retrospect, maybe a little too on-the-nose, but the parallels still stand.
The narrator sounds like she's been the other woman. There's no excuse and the reasons listed aren't an excuse at all. Other women who knowingly involve themselves with a taken guy deserve their karma.
Agreed. If she knows then she’s complicit; acknowledging that doesn’t let him off the hook. The only times she isn’t at all to blame are when she doesn’t know he’s married/dating and when he is forceful-in which case she isn’t the Other Woman, she’s a victim of his predations. These things cannot be conflated, and I don’t think that The Take took the time to differentiate them.
I am so disappointed that Robyn’s “Call Your Girlfriend” never came up. It’s explicitly about another woman telling her lover to call his girlfriend and explain how he met somebody new.
Honestly the only question in real life we should be asking about an affair is did the other person who's not in the relationship know about the partner. If no they are just as much of a victim as the affair Partners partner. If yes then they are homewreckers. There is no reason to go after someone in a committed relationship or allow our relationship to form with someone who's in a relationship. Not you being lonely, sad, misunderstood or whatever excuse you tell yourself it's not okay. I understand that an affair there can be complicated power dynamics at play but it's simply boils down to if you knew they were in a relationship and you chose to have sex with them that's on you. If you are a consenting adult that has made the conscious choice to sleep with somebody else's partner you hold blame in that decision/ action. Now that being said the person in the relationship that chooses to cheat does carry more of the responsibility and guilt then the one who is not. As for the man being deeply unhappy well if you're deeply unhappy in your relationship you need to move on and leave. You being unhappy is does not give you a pass to cause trauma destroy someone else's life. Edited to add the Sex In The City the original series Carrie was never sympathetic. In fact she came across as entitled and selfish for what she did to Biggs wife and Aiden.
Check out The Takeaway on The Wilds Mysteries and Theories on Prime Video ua-cam.com/video/2JxcHYko2x4/v-deo.html We unpack all of Season 1's questions and conspiracies to get ready for the Season 2 premiere on May 6 only on Prime Video.
Actually this is a very Western perspective. In cultures where soap opera dominate the prime time slot like South Asian and South American, the main girl has always been the innocent angel "other woman" and the fiancé or wife of the husband is this evil enemy of true love. This has been the case for at least 4 decades. The husband, the male lead, would then GASLIGHT the hell out of the fiancé and wife character, saying "I don't feel anything for (the main girl)" "You are just imagining things" "You are acting crazy!" until the evil fiancé/wife character did something that crossed the line like trying to kill the other woman. And when the male lead get together with the main girl finally, "I love you since the moment I saw you." This is what soap opera and romance novel think that is every woman's fantasy. To be with a rich caring man, who of course already has a wife/fiancé/girlfriend, because if he's good, why would he be single? That is a trope we can all live without.
Are you guys at "The Take" aware that this comments section is brimming with hostility and judgement toward the titular Other Woman?
I can't, no matter how warily or diplomatically, share the story of the dual sided affair that led to my loving marriage without getting an *avalanche* of hate from your indignant viewers.
"Hate them both but hate him more" seems to be all 95% of your viewers got out of this compassionate and open minded, thought provoking video.
My "mistress" experience~
Once an Adulterer Always An Adulterer?
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an autobiographical essay
*
It's often, and on the whole wisely, said that if a person lies to and cheats on their spouse, he or she would make a terrible partner. They will eventually, *inevitably* lie to you. Savvy, intelligent therapists will tell you this.
It certainly isn't bad advice.
And yet…
This will likely be an unpopular statement to which many will object-and I'll try to explain-but: I don't *entirely* believe this received wisdom, that if someone lies to one person they will inevitably lie to you, is *always* true.
Seven years ago, when my fiancé and I got involved with each other, through a gradual, morally tormenting process, we were both married to other people. Both, perhaps to varying degrees, unhappily married.
In his case it was a sexless, high conflict marriage that he wanted to save--but wasn't enjoying very much. He often felt bossed and bullied and resentful. They were on their fourth couple's therapist in just a few years. Nothing seemed to work for very long. There was a stubborn divide between them. I know this, as his confidante, though of course only he could tell the details of his story.
For myself, I was finally depleted and heartbroken after twenty years of being judged, told how to live, and increasingly ignored by what I understand in retrospect to have been a grandiose narcissist: My beloved husband.
As soon as my much older husband lost his exceptionally vigorous and viril health, the ugly sides of his personality that he'd apparently transcended through our extensive couple's therapy came back. Literally as soon as he was diagnosed with a slow growing, slow spreading prostate cancer he started attacking my choices and pushing me away.
It was like the benign and lovable Dr. Jeckle side of him that our therapy had brought out had abruptly, from one day to the next, reverted back to angry, aggressive Mr. Hyde. It was then that my marriage began its descent into failure.
He used sophisticated thinking about arbitrary thresholds to argue that he did not have cancer at all. When he threatened to refuse treatment I was beside myself.
Then the shutting me out excellerated. I accused him of cheating on me with the television, since it was his true companion and he would angrily silence me so that he could devote his full attention to this electronic mistress.
Being ignored felt so bad, I'd often cry alone in the bathroom in the evening while he watched TV. I'd given up trying to tell him what I felt and needed. He had been dismissing and ignoring my pleas for a closer, more mutually respectful relationship for seven long years…
I felt I would have rather been single and alone than teased by his presence yet denied connection. It made me hysterically unhappy.
People assume that a younger wife has lost attraction to her aging husband, but I hadn't lost attraction or interest, and his sometimes overtly expressed disinterest in me was excruciating.
One afternoon, after taking post op care of him for eight weeks, I noticed his impatience and hostile tone and said,
"Apparently you don't enjoy talking to me anymore."
It was a fear, an exaggeration I assumed was not entirely true.
"Unfortunately that's true," he said.
Shocking me, and hurting me, to my core.
So that was *my* situation.
My partner in adultery didn't want to leave his spouse because he had a very young daughter. I didn't want to leave because my difficult husband--once a paragon of health and vigor-was now in steep decline.
I told my spouse the truth about the incipient affair. (In fact I asked for and received his permission before meeting in person with my new potential love.) My now-fiancé-then-paramour committed the ultimate lie of omission. He cheated in secret. And he felt very guilty.
And so did I. About all of it. I felt guilty about his wife, and about his very young child.
That's why we kept *trying* to stop chatting on Messenger for two or three hours every night… Then on the phone in the afternoon. We did try.
We tried to resist the thirst to talk with each other about Shakespeare and the true, supernatural meaning of the Shroud of Tourin. Resist the pleasure of making up long streams of nonsensical poetry together at midnight. And sharing stories from our lives.
We tried. And we deliberated a long time before finally giving in to the gravitational pull and meeting in person.
It was like an illicit tree, very green and too stubbornly alive to be chopped down.
-When we finally met (met again really, we'd known each other in high school, in a kind of unforgettable way)...
…when we finally met and eventually kissed…when he grabbed me and kissed me…stopped holding himself back and started kissing me *constantly,* as we drove around together in my car…
-I'll never forget those explosive kisses!-
…it felt like I had entered the music of the spheres, that heavenly realm of celestial singing in the cosmology of the ancients…
But there were casualties. The affair was never discovered. His wife never found out. But his feelings for me and chatting-together-five-hours-a-day involvement with me intensified the emotional distance between them, thus undermining their marriage.
After about six months of being okay with my non-monogamy, my naturally choleric husband became intensely, painfully, Angrily jealous.
"It seems like you two are having the affair of the decade" he'd say sarcastically.
(In my celestially enamoured heart I believed it was more like the greatest affair in a quarter century at least.)
By the time his approval turned to obsessive jealousy, I knew I had found my soulmate and was not willing to let the outside relationship go. He never asked me to actually, knowing, he said, that making it forbidden would only inflame my "besotted" state, as he called it.
Thus in a way I hurt my husband more with my honesty than if I had lied. I've been told I "should have lied." But lying to him would have been impossible, given his beliefs! He insisted on what he called "radical honesty" in all personal relationships. To lie to him would have been the ultimate betrayal.
Eventually both marriages ended. My husband passed away on his own terms after a year and a half of turmoil between us, even during the several months when I took a break from my affair to focus on him. (He was always condemning me about one thing or another. At least our very final words to each other were redemptive.) My lover's wife decided to leave him, finding him to be too angry a person.
Now we're an out and public, engaged couple, though very few know our origin story. It's hard to say when we became engaged. In a way we always were, from before the first kiss.
I'll always remember our shared, besotted elation, wandering from room to room of our love nest (we called it Castleview after a side street nearby) talking constantly and kissing occasionally…
I'll always remember when he said to me, standing there shirtless, bronze skinned, and a bit tubby,
"Can you be my mistress, like, forever?"
Or the morning when we talked about how this "might be all we ever have."
"Might?" I asked, beginning to wonder whether he really loved me as much as he seemed to.
"Well, I mean, would you even want to be in a real relationship with a guy like me?" he replied. I said,
"Everything is on the table except abandoning my husband."
After that we talked excitedly as we made the bed. Then he very understandably got scared. He had an adorable very young daughter, the young family he'd long wanted. I understood.
Later we were sweeping the hallway, busily chatting again. I said that just knowing he would consider a real life with me meant the world to me.
"Does that make me a bad person?" I asked. He swept me up into his arms, almost dipping me as if we were dancing,
"You're not a bad person sweetie" he said. The way he held me…it felt as if I was made of light.
That night he wrote to me by Messenger
"You have been a blossom of loveliness."
So when he finally woke one morning, his divorce at last almost finalized, and said to me "Will you marry me?" he was just making official what we had long known and felt. This is for life.
-Once after a fight, I asked him "Do you want me to leave?"
"I want you to stay and make a life with me" was his answer.--
We're both older now and feel less need for illicit thrills, though it wasn't ever really about that. We were just two unhappily married people who fell madly in love with each other.
My partner works at home and we're hardly ever apart. After seven years together, I have no fear that he's cheating.
(One reason I can trust him is that he knows I wouldn't throw him away over one indiscretion, if that should happen.)
*Primarily* I have no fear because we're so right for each other. Best friends with affection all day-and with passion for each other still. We've had *serious problems,* immense, intense conflict, probably because we both had combative, to be honest pretty F'd up parents. Lovable and loving-but f*cked up.
Yet we've chosen each other and only each other again and again.
But, when I think of the moral boundary we violated, the word that usually comes to mind is "sin".
[continued next comment]
[conclusion to previous comment]
Don't they say: We all sin? I can't undo what I did. But I will try, in this second half of my life, to avoid sinning again.
And as for his sin: Sometimes people cheat and lie to their spouse because they feel trapped and don't want to wound their children with divorce...
I can't imagine lying to my late husband, but I know my honest approach hurt him very deeply.
And the turmoil of it all-juggling two hyper assertive and demanding Alpha males, sometimes fighting with both of them on the same day-nearly wrecked me.
And my fiance still feels guilty about the adultery he committed when another woman was his wife. His first wife and the mother of his child. The guilt persists.
These are complex issues...
I'm grateful for what I found and chastened by how I found it.😔🥀
*
@@panasit
Very interesting! Quite interesting actually. Very different cultural norms / tropes.
Gaslighting is pretty inexcusable...
Some thoughts: There's this assumption that the mistress is a single woman and her married lover is high status. Not always!
When I was a mistress I was already married--trapped in an unhappy, devolved marriage, to a high status male. I guess when we tell these stories, like Water For Elephants, the young, lower status male lover is imagined to be single. He rescues the trapped unhappy wife. Somehow we think this is romantic, though it's certainly adultery too.
Anna Karenina was married to a more high status man when she gave up her status by falling in love with Count Vonsky, becoming, as she calls herself, "his mistress."
So those are two non standard scenarios.
Mine (see personal essay as comment above) was a third non standard scenario: Two unhappily married people falling in love, utilizing honest non monogamy on one side and more traditional cheating on the other side. Result: No one got caught but the affair partners ended up happily married, still carrying a certain psychic burden of guilt.
Life is complex is all I'm trying to illustrate...
Honestly though, being the other woman is just a bad investment. If the guy cheats on his current partner, it says a lot about his character. He is not a prize.
Well, my paramour and I were unhappily married to other people. I did the honest non monogamy thing so I could save my heart and be with someone who actually gave a sh*t about me; he went the more conventional cheating rout.
We both felt *very guilty* . But also VERY in love with each other.
The affair never came to light. His now ex wife left for her own reasons, which left us free to resume seeing each other.
Seven years later we're joined at the hip, engaged, and happy.
I'm not proud of our beginnings, but I am glad we began, and found each other.
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 sure but will you be up for having an open marriage should he grow tired of you? Or do you think he’ll prefer to just cheat in secret?
@@dinkyboss
Uh, neither. (Though I used to fret about that very issue.)
He's getting too tubby and middle aged and exhausted for such shenanigans, and I know how to keep things *lively and spicy* enough to keep a reasonable, rather than narcissistically greedy, man content.
And I let him joke about his fav fantasy, blow job harems, like, *constantly.* I don't object to or interfere with his enjoyment of his irrepressible and BIZARRE ass fantasy life.
It's quite funny actually! Every day ends with about 50 inane blow job jokes. It's Adorable. 🤗😄🤗
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 if you both were not happy why don't you just broke up? is so simple... and are you sure you was the only one in his life? really..
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 He’ll definitely cheat on you if he hasn’t already and then you’ll understand lmao.
"She stole my husband!" No Lady, your husband did his choice of leaving you for her . While i don't think high of anyone who gets involved with someone on a relationship (knowing it) it bothers me that the cheater is seen as an object that the other two parts fight over , instead of a human being with free will
Thank you
Precisely, it's a sad double standard that the mistress receives the majority of the blame, yet the man hardly does. It takes two to tango.
You can't take someone who doesn't want to get took
Yeah. EJ Speaks had a video about the other woman.
She still stole the husband. They're both assholes. You don't go shopping in somebody else's closet.
I agree that we should not only blame the other women but the men as well. But please DO NOT CONDONE such act! The other woman are also well aware in what they are getting in and that the man is married or in a relationship. In my personal opinion, both man and the other woman are at fault and in most cases, they make the wife appears like crazy or boring. I have witness in my family where the other woman really wanted to break my parent's marriage where she called everyday and insulted my mother. So, please not all other women are victims as there are some who contributed to this. If we start condoning and justifying such acts so, these actions will become acceptable and most other women will try to victimise themselves. There are a lot of families which have been broken because of such affairs and its the faithful wife and innocent children who are hurt in the end.
Agree
Yep, one party may be the more heinous of the two, but both cheaters are definitely in the wrong.
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Also, you're right that the stories usually make the wife/gf look boring (oe prudish), crazy or (less often, but sometimes) physically ill and therefore unable to attend to her 'marital duties' as if that justifies adultery and betrayal. Like, c'mon! Break up with them or get a divorce. Yes, even if they're ill (or maybe ask if they're open to poly) because it's better to let them know you're uninvested to some degree than to betray them emotionally and physically.
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But no one wants to *admit* they're the 'bad guy/gal' for cheating or leaving (especially if the partner is ill) so they blame-shift.
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It's not even wrong to want to have your own emotional or physical needs met, but they almost never even try to communicate or be honest (or just honestly leave) their S.O. in order to find a healthier or happier relationship. It's usually just that the unfaithful partner doesn't want to leave their comfortable lifestyle or tarnish their 'white knight' image or put up with the hassle of separation, while still wsnting to get their kicks or the 'novelty rush' or the admiration of a lover who thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread (since they don't ever have to put up with their darker side like the cheated-on partner who lives with them does).
Okay the “other” woman is not “just another girl looking for love & understanding”. She’s also in the wrong when she’s complicit in cheating a woman who thinks that she’s in a monogamous relationship. Ofc, the man is more at fault.
Yeah that part rubbed me the wrong way, she could be just a girl looking for love and understanding with a man that isn't my father and not destroying my family and betraying my mother, who also was her best friend. She had understanding, on my mom, and decided to fuck her up by fucking her husband
Yup, as long as the majority of the blame is placed on the person in the relationship, I don't see why we can't call the other person wrong.
Yes, you're not a decent person if married or taken people are a kink to you. Introduce yourself with that facet of your personality and no woman will be your friend and no man will want to be in a commited relationship with you because you don't respect commitment. Although you should never get more than 30-40% of the blame because you didn't break a promise to anyone.
@@maheenm.k1015 We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is.
'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy.
And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
@@baonguyenxuanthai711 exactly!
@@baonguyenxuanthai711 there was nothing inherently complex about the so called other woman. This video while wonderfully produced was an exercise in COPE.
Women are still partly blamed because they are thought of to be the fairer sex so all types of excuses are made as to why they would stray (if they are involves in a serious relationship) instead of taking their infidelity at face value.
Women can be scoundrels too.
I really can't agree here, not completely. I think there's a false dichotomy here. I do agree that the focus on the mistress as the seductive villain out to "steal men" is misogynistic and pretends that the man has no agency, or the primary responsibility, in the situation. The way they are portrayed as disposable objects in media is also disgusting. However, I also think this framing of The Other Woman (who is aware of her participation in the cheating) as an "equal victim" who "just wants to find loooooove" is also being unfair and, in a larger sense, also patriarchal.
Choosing to be a mistress (note, choosing, not being tricked into it) is a profoundly anti-feminist action because it is contingent on a woman collaborating with a man to participate in behavior that she knows disrespects and harms another woman. Her and the wife's expectations are NOT identical. The wife's expectations of the man were reasonable, honest, and harmful to no one, as they both agreed to a monogamous partnership; the mistress's expectation of the man were that she would help him conspire against his wife and, in exchange, reap the benefits of his affection. Regardless of her underlying motivations, she is centering a man's pleasure over another woman's dignity. Yes, the mistress is a complex human being - but so is the husband, and that should hardly earn him any sympathy. All human beings are complex. But complexity does not absolve a person of their actions. I consider cheating to be a form of emotional abuse, and no matter how complex a mistress is, the fact remains that she is participating in that abuse. The husband is primarily responsible, yes, but just because you didn't stab someone yourself doesn't mean you get off for gleefully handing over the knife. Yes, the man is an agent and not a static object to be fought over. But the Other Woman is ALSO an agent and not a static object that the man merely bats around and plays with like a cat toy.
Being an Other Woman is a "patriarchal bargain," i.e., a way that a woman makes herself an ally to patriarchy in order to elevate her own position within it. Examples would be a female politician who campaigns for women to return to the kitchen, the female partner of a pimp who helps sell sex slaves, or in some cultures, the mother-in-law who abuses her daughter-in-law because she herself was abused as a DIL and now it's "her turn" as the new matriarch of the household. Women make patriarchal bargains for understandable reasons, that being the desire to partially escape the pain of patriarchy themselves, but these bargains are a large part of why patriarchy is able to continue standing - because it divides women and their motivation to dismantle the system. So while we may be able to sympathize with the motivations behind these bargains, we cannot afford to minimize their harmful effect or the responsibility that women themselves have to refuse making them. And this whole attempting to strip the Other Woman of all antagonism and frame her as "just another victim" is contrary to that pressing need, it ignores the fact that women hold up patriarchy too...
On another point, this idea that "cheating doesn't happen in happy relationships" is also victim-blaming. It is essentially based entirely on a cheater's post hoc claims that they were unhappy and a lack of questioning as to where this unhappiness comes from. We assume that it must be derived from legitimate grievances, but we know for a fact that this isn't always true, people can be "unhappy" for entirely unreasonable reasons. You know what else doesn't happen in happy relationships? Physical abuse. Men will often claim that women provoked them into violence through excessive nagging, poor household care, etc., but we rightfully don't assume that she actually is a nag or poor housekeeper (not that either of these would justify the violence), more likely that this is what he perceives her as due to his warped expectations of entitlement and misogyny. Yet when a man cheats on his wife and claims that it was because he was unhappy in the relationship, we suddenly take his word for it? People, please: A man who disrespects his wife and causes her pain is *not* a trustworthy source of information on how good of a partner *she* is. Don't mistake narcissistic rationalization for "complexity."
I'm sorry The Frame, but you don't get to pick and choose when "sisterhood" applies. Yes, OW should be understood as a person and not an object to be sacrificed on the altar of a man's reputation as a "family man." But OW also doesn't get to make a patriarchal bargain to sacrifice another woman on the altar of a man's penis and narcissistic self-image as a "player" and then come running back crying, "What about empathy for your fellow woman?!" when the consequences of that behavior backlashes on her.
Exactly. Absolving someone who is knowingly involved in a cheating relationship is bs. They may not have the same level of responsbility as the cheating partner but they absolutly share the blame.
Your coment is amazing! I agree with everything you said in here.
10 out of 10!
@@Lillithowl To make matters worse, I remember reading reddit posts (and other websites) where women have said that they prefer to date married or taken men and that they don't feel bad about it.
OMG, thank you! I honestly love this channel, but I thought they were completely off with this analysis. As you said, anyone who cheats, to me, is an unreliable narrator of the true situation of their marriage. This is just lazy and seriously reaching.
I have to disagree here. I've been the other woman before, and in NO WAY was I the victim. I deeply regret it, the only victim there was the poor girlfriend, the guy I liked left her for me and until today I feel terrible. If you try to get with someone who you know is a relationship you're in the wrong, ofc the cheater is the one who's breaking the trust and betraying their partner, but you're participating. Also, if you're someone's friend and try to get with their partner you're also betraying someone's trust, while I've never done this, I've known people who have gone through this and they're often more hurt by the fact that their friend betrayed them than the fact that their partner cheated.
Edit: I've seen some confusion about my story, maybe it was the way that I phrased it. But I didn't "steal" my best friend's bf. The girl my ex was dating wasn't my friend, I hardly knew her. It doesn't make what I did any better, but I just wanted to clarify that because friendship is sacred to me and I would never do anything like that to a friend.
Im just wondering did you and the cheating dude work out? Im sending no hate towards you. I really admire that you are recognizing your wrong choices and admitting it but i got curious because from what i have seen those kind of man dont change.
At least you realise what you did was wrong
I think it's awesome that you're able to own up to this and I'm super glad you've become a better person!
@@CsySnw yeah, i was young and dumb. Still doesn't justify what i did tho
@@star3catcherSEQUEL thank you!💗
Just like I said once before. Love The Take, but there isn't one bad woman trope you don't try to rehabilitate into being a victim of the patriarchy, while bad man tropes are simply bad because of the patriarchy. I do agree that the focus on the mistress as the bad person while the man who cheated is treated as blameless is extremely misogynistic, and he sure deserves more blame than her. But the mistress is no victim (if she knows the other person is in a relationship), especially when she is friends with the person cheated on in the first place.
YES! I thought EXACTLY the same thing.
I'm a hardcore feminist, but we still need to hold ourselves accountable when we do wrong, and that Definitely includes cheating.
it has nothing to do with patrarchy,hurting someone that you love is hard thats why we divert our anger to the other person(its much easier) and this goes for both the gender(men literally get into fist fight with other guy which might lead to someone being dead),its just that women using social isolation and torture to hurt other women while man use physical
they say that the other woman is a complex human being as if the cheating husband wasn’t too. and that doesn’t absolve him does it?
I honestly was looking for this comment. Somethings you can’t justify
@@lamarnash2439 couldnt agree more
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is.
'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy.
And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
Right.
I like this take more than the original video. I feel like the last third was just an argument for polyamory. With no... media analysis.
This is the most thoughtful and neutral take I've seen so far I agree 👍
the other woman is just as guilty as the man. she is not a victim
If you actually talk to the other woman, it's all about an ego boost. The ones I have encountered are competitive with other women. It's more about feeling superior over another woman than it is about finding true love with a man. lol
Blaming "the other woman" can have patriarchy attributed to it, but there's another reason that's a lot simpler: when we put all our emotions, including our trust into a relationship, we're attacked to our core when someone breaks that trust. It's a traumatic experience to go through. And it's easier to hurt the other lover because they're already demonised by others, and you're less likely to know them as intimately. As for the other lover...right amount of attention at the wrong time can make all the difference.
It's also typical to look for a woman to blame for the man's actions.
@@KashyaCharsi Yup, as a result of patriarchy.
@@KashyaCharsi This is VERY true. I was simply making the observation that while the argument of sexism is valid, it's more complicated than that.
I understood and liked this comment, but couldn't understand the last sentence...
@@FabalociousDee
It's the same reason a step mom like myself is sometimes blamed for the children's neglectful parent.
I urged my late husband to be a better father to his adult kids. He didn't really listen.
So I was blamed for his neglect of his first born daughter. By the daughter herself that is.
6 years older than me, with more status and advanced degrees, she became my "wicked step daughter."
Though really his adult kids were my step-peers. Awkward.
People don't want to blame the person they love and long to be loved by...😔😪😔
No one is innocent there. If a woman knows the guy (or woman) is taken, tf is she involved with him/her? And vice versa if we are being honest: guys involved with married women/men. Having said that, it ALL comes down to the spouse- they have a choice, stay with the family and fix the issues or ruin it all over a fling.
No offense (The take )but I feel like your excusing the other women and her actions a bit too much . Although it's not solely her fault in the affair and it should always be blamed on the spouse ,Erasing the other women for her actions she knew would hurt people but just didn't care until she faced consequences isn't the way to go ether .Both parties participating in the affair should be held accountable in their own ways.
Angelina, I agree. To me, it's like the video is a "Sympathy For The Devil" type narrative. Seems like society wants sympathy for the woman, almost solely because she's a woman.
Like take the film "Cruella" for example. Why didn't PETA and animal rights organizations boycott the film, due to her kidnapping and butchering puppies and dogs, turning them into clothes?
Imagine if someone tried to make a film about Michael Vick, that person would be ran outta town and never come back
using Carrie to evoke sympathy, regardless of the trope, is a rookie mistake. Carrie Bradshaw was/is a one of the most unhealthy, toxic, selfish, manipulative, judgmental and unforgiving protagonists in the past 20+ years. it's hard to take this seriously when we're presented with the notion that Carrie was also a victim in her affair with Big. the only victim was Big's wife. the other two are equally complicit.
defenses of Carrie, no matter the context, make me itch. ugh
Agreed
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
Which is why I don’t watch old episodes of SATC and didn’t watch AJLT.
So true! The scene when Charlotte calls her out is so good - “you think about what would happen to YOU if she found out, you don’t think about her”!
Carrie was a sick narcissistic fool who tried to control and manipulate those around her. She treated men like crap so I always enjoyed watching her get dumped.
This attitude that women can do no wrong and blaming everything on the patriarchy actually strikes me as the opposite of feminist. Women have choices and autonomy- if you choose to be in a relationship with someone who is already committed to someone else, that was your choice. Nobody forced you to do it. Women, like men, are self determined people.
Exactly!!!
Women have to be honest with themselves, each in her position, and admit that for them male love/validation is precious. That’s why they engage in affairs to begin with or hold accountable more the other woman than “their man”. If we are courageous enough to face this truth, the solution from here will come much more organically.
It's not that women can do no wrong.. It's just pointing out the fact that women are blamed disproportionately than the men who cheat.. That's as simple as this discussion can get..R U guys as saying that women do deserve that disproportionate blame and judgement! ?
@@t_gr4809 how the fuck did you translate the meaning of this comment like that in your mind?? I knoww the women are being held more accountable than men in cheating cases. For men that is just convinient, what pains me is the women that would hold accountable each other more than the man and the reason behind that is because the love of the man is so precious to them. That doesn’t mean by any means that women deserve that. But internalized misogyny is very sneaky, it can come even from the human need to belong. And it is a very delicate matter bcs if it’s being called out it can easily be translated that is women’s fault why they are being abused. Women are not united with each other in any issue that violates their gender. Now, the question is: “How can we spot the weak spots within ourselves, the needs that make us by into patriarchal bullshit, without pointing fingers to the other women bcs that only would perpetuate the fight within the gender. Everything you are honest with within yourself you can the power to trancend it. That is what I meant by that comment.
@@t_gr4809no ofc not but they chose to be in a relationship with a taken man they’re aren’t babies their grown adults who made that decision they should be blamed
I don't want to feel 'bad' for a woman who chooses to do this to herself. I feel bad for the woman who gets this done to. All human beings are complex but projecting my sadness and issues to ruin someone's life is not ok. Choosing to hurt another woman isn't any sisterhood.
Hear hear
and it's not even a "sister/woman code" to not cheat with another friend/woman's man it's common decency 😭
This!
@@ams3244 Exactly!
@Music Case this mode of thinking is toxic. Even if I have no relationship to you, I *do* owe you something: basic decency. As a human being. We all owe that to each other. Partaking in something you know is going to cause great pain and suffering is a violation of human decency. Yeah, the cheating partner moreso, but you can't pretend a choice isn't being made on the "other woman"'s part
This trope has always rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously it’s a shitty thing to do when you engage romantically/sexually with a married or romantically involved man/person but most of the shame should be placed on the person who actually cheated. I never liked how people were always so quick to place blame on the mistress/man who sought after people in relationships. While they might know what they’re doing, they’re not the ones who are in relationships. A home wrecker can only wreck a home if someone lets them in
No all of the shame should be placed on BOTH parties
i agree but if the other person knows and still does it they deserve a bit of the fault as well
I wish they dove into the psychology of "The homewrecker"
@@vonjaey6736 not really cause only one person broke someone else’s trust
@@sirtreewalker8213 so what? Does that mean you shouldn’t be a decent person and not help them in cheating?
There's no point staying with a guy who cheats on his wife he's just going to cheat on you.
Agree and i feel like a lot of stories don't show this enough, if a man has proven himself able to cheat then they will cheat.
And in most cases if they marry the misstress they will cheat on them too.
Right? Girl, you've got a front row seat to how this man views and treats the woman in his life, it's not going to be different for you. Don't be a fool.
That's so true Anna!
its actually statistically more likely
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is.
'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy.
And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
I read in a psychological study or survey somewhere (I'd have to look it up) that in affairs where men cheat women are blamed, & where women cheat, women are blamed. Whether it's the wife that's blamed for "pushing him into the arms of another" or the other woman for being a "homewrecker that stole a husband", women are more likely to be blamed than men.
How old is this study?
@@Passions5555 2017. It was a small but interesting study from Cardiff Metropolitan University. I got curious one night & looked up "do men or women get blamed more for affairs?" and read a couple psychological articles, this study being included in one of them. But there was another survey that, if I recall correctly, indicated women are more likely to blame 50% the mistress & 50% the husband, whereas men are more likely to just blame 100% the wife & 0% the 'other man'; which meant women get the greater net blame. I can't recall how I found this (now elusive) survey, sorry, but maybe you're better at finding it. I'll try looking for it if I have time.
@@ec6621 That's true. Men will totally blame the wife 100%. I've heard men say "I'm not going to blame the man for what a woman does." Very interesting.
@@cpeacenlove Personally, I'd agree with that. I'm more likely to blame a cheating husband 100% & the mistress 0%. I've held that opinion for nearly my whole life. But women, it seems, are more likely to be angry or disagree with me, insisting I change my mind. Meanwhile men don't come at me but they don't openly agree with me either lol. Overall, I know my opinion is probably in the minority of women, but I also know I'm helping to balance the gender blame imbalance.
@@ec6621 (this is somewhat related) I also remember reading about a statistic where mistresses usually receive more expensive gifts than the wife.
The only situation where the other woman isn't to blame is the one where she didn't KNOW she was the other woman.
Trust me, finding out you're the other woman is just as bad as finding out there is an other woman.
It's definitely not as bad, but is still pretty bad
This! Like the man could be lying that he’s single. This is the only time the other woman shouldn’t be blamed. The only time both should be at fault (is if it takes two to tango) is if both know about whether one or both are taken but still dance regardless.
@@Riskofrain527 I've been in both situations and imo they're equally shit. Like, when you find out you're the other woman, there's an extra layer of guilt there, because you do feel guilty as well, like you should have known, so in a way it's worse because when you get cheated on at least the feelings are clean
Both parties are to be held accountable and i would say the person who cheated is more to blame since it is them who inflicted this hellish pain to their partner. But the other person should be held accountable as well and it is to blame since they started a relationship with someone who was in an other relationship and when there are children involved it is even worse. If this third person doesn't know then she/he is a victim as well, but if they do they are as much to blame. If you haven' experienced the pain this kind of situation creates then please do not comment on this subject matter since it destroyes lives not just one life but multiple ones and relationships. If the marriage was so horrible which in the majority of the cases it isn't then you can just leave and not cheat. Just leave it is the right thing to do not simple but the right one and the pain from the separation that your partner will feel it will be much less than the pain created by the betrayal. Speaking from experience!!
“Just another girl looking for someone to love and understand her.” I’m going to take a leap and say you fundamentally do not understand the pain of someone you trust being unfaithful. In your quest to take down the patriarchy, don’t condescend to the harmed woman: you’re not giving the wives and girlfriends enough credit, so many of them DO blame the husband or boyfriend for cheating more than the “mistress.”
Also, of all the onscreen portrayals of the other woman, Carrie Bradshaw was really your best for the sympathetic mistress? Being complicit in deception isn’t a feminist empowerment moment or “OMG I’m so misunderstood/dangerous/quirky.”
In your ending, you make the claim that a woman who is scorned through cheating can come out stronger as another kind of woman-I thought you were against the whole “pain as Phoenix moment” trope?
Whew, what a read.
it has nothing to do with patrarchy,hurting someone that you love is hard thats why we divert our anger to the other person(its much easier) and this goes for both the gender(men literally get into fist fight with other guy which might lead to someone being dead),its just that women using social isolation and torture to hurt other women while man use physical
I'm once again going to risk being pilloried in this comments section.
Have you ever read Tolstoy's novel Anna Karenina?
It's about 800 pages and incredibly beautiful and a wonderful read, especially in the new translation. In any translation, but especially the new translation.
Anna is a early middle aged married woman who becomes the "mistress" of a younger man, Count Vronsky, a military officer.
As we read the novel we come to understand that Anna, at a young age, chose an anemic marriage, which she was content with until she understood what real love and passion feel like.
I once found myself in a similar situation, except that I was, after 19 turbulent years, *wildly unhappily* married, watching my marriage devolve, but married to someone who was too ill in a way that had been going on for a few years and was destined to go on for at least a few more years (my misery began before he became ill) again, he was too ill for me to consider leaving him.
It was important that I stay and take care of my ailing, increasingly debilitated husband…
My paramour had his own reasons for being unhappy and his own reasons for not leaving--especially a very young little girl who was far too young to suffer parental divorce.
So I was in something similar to that Anna Karenina position.
I certainly and most definitely *did not* think I was being "quirky"! Or "dangerous." (I and we felt guilty. But also more and more in love.)
I was desperate.
And I did what I had to do to survive emotionally.
Now the two paramors, myself and my partner, have been together for 7 years (his wife never learned of our affair; she had the dignity and control of choosing to leave her devolving marriage).
Now my partner and I are making marital arrangements.
I've been told over and over again on this thread that I am bound to be cheated on.
But I think that is the thinking of a college girl or someone fresh out of college. Young and youngish men can be very restless about romance and sex, even into their early forties.
By the time you hit the early to mid fifties, where we are now, the chemical balance in a man's bloodstream changes, less testosterone, more oxytocin. Less lust and a stronger need to bond.
And it's simply true that many 2nd marriages are happier, because the two people are more suitable, because they chose one another at a time in their lives when they actually understood what marriage is like and what they need in a marriage in order to be happy.
So I don't in any way agree that a woman who finds herself in the other woman position is, necessarily, self indulgently thinking "how quirky and unconventional and rebellious against social mores!" she is.
I'm sure there are situations like that.
But I'm sure there are also situations like mine, where the person is hysterically miserable after decades of trying to make things work...
...and is simply trapped between a rock and a hard place…
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 are you really comparing your situation to that of a women in 1870 Russia? Unless there is something preventing anyone from leaving the relationship like monetarily depending on them or idk being a woman in 1870 then no. Cheating doesn't become all right. You are all over this comment section trying to defend why what you did was right. It's not. You can have your reasons but it doesn't make them right, cheating is abusing someone's trust and to help others Doo that is also wrong.
They are just trying to make all of us stupid.
I feel like this video should have given more focus to Anne Boleyn. She was the original 'Other Woman' for whom the entire concept of divorce was invented for, so that the King could legally separate from the Queen and marry her. Anne became the Queen and one who was more involved in the affairs of the state than her predecessor. This created political rivals who started scheming her downfall and managed to convince the King to have her vilified and executed once he got yet another other woman who was portrayed as more principled. So in a way, Anne Boleyn was the OG Vilified Other Woman AND Vilified Wife.
Not sure I agree, divorce, the other woman and divorce for the other woman as tropes/concepts have been around for far longer than boleyn
Actually... Helena from Troy would be the oldest one xD
@@kim7990 Hellena was not the other woman, she left with another guy lol.
Great point‼️ Really the only intellectually sophisticated point I'm finding in this comments section...
Mmmhmm... the concept of divorce existed centuries and centuries before Anne Boleyn was a mere thought. It existed in ancient civilizations like in ancient Egypt for instance, it's always existed in Islam, Judaism, (Christianity too depending on the denomination) and myriads of other cultures, traditions and religions throughout the globe. Divorce was not invented by some white dude in England.
They aren’t always vilified there are rare cases where the wife/girlfriend befriends the other woman and villainizes the husband/boyfriend
The series 'Why women kill' is great example. It was very refreshing to see.
Also that movie with Cameron Diaz ...
@@hereforit2 makes sense
@@hereforit2 in why women kill it was more “keep your friends close and your enemies closer”
this is my favourite trope. even when there was no cheating, i love when the ex and new girlfriend bond and become friends 😍 examples: jane the virgin, crazy ex-girlfriend
Reminds me of the song Jolene. She isn't vilifying her, she actually admires her.
Moral of the Story: “Exercise releases endorphins. Endorphins make you happy. Happy people just don’t shoot their husbands. They just don’t.”
iconic
Legally Blonde. As always ahead of it's time ;)
What is this from?
@@EvolianTiger A cinematic masterpiece called ‘Legally Blonde’.
Okay, but this is the second time I've read this today. Maybe it's my signal to start working out.😂😂
When my dad, a notorious cheater, finally left my mom after 6 years of marriage and two kids to be with one of his mistresses, my mom actually tried making it sound like our new stepmother to be, Cheryl, was "such a wonderful lady!" Mom would talk her up, how smart and successful she was in business, and what care she was taking as a stepmother to us. (Which, really? I think I saw the woman 4-5 times in my life.) This kind of revising turned Dad and Cheryl's extramarital relationship (on both of their parts) as Dad finding a woman who he just HAD to leave my mom for, because she was JUST SUCH AN AWESOME LADY!!1!
No, Mom. It took me til adulthood to get it, but Cheryl was not a fabulous lady who just happened to fall in love with a married father of two, any more than my father was some passionate romantic whose joie de vivre was hampered by the burdens of fatherhood. They were selfish, sucky jerks who hurt countless people, and then didn't even manage to stay married to each other for, what, five years? Sorry, there's no hidden feminism in that.
Realest comment here! You can always tell who is in fantasy world when it comes to these real life situations. I agree, both are usually crap people that deserve each other. The philanderer deserves the direct punishment but no one likes a snake either. No matter how much people try to intellectualize it the Other Person will always be seen as a snake who enables poor behavior in my eyes.
your mother is a good woman. she did not trash talk your father or his mistress. she let yall find out on your own. thats what she supposed to do. mistake people do is trash talk their ex. thats immature
Finding out you've been cheated on does real psychological damage. You'll have trust issues for years. Knowing that and deciding to engage in cheating anyway means you're accountable. Both cheating parties are to blame for the resulting damage.
"Leaving me was okay. People leave me all the time, I’m used to it. What hurts like hell is when you made me feel so damn special yesterday, and then make me feel so unwanted today."
I remember starting to get close with a guy who'd, according to him, previously dated a girl in my year who I rarely talked to but they had broken up. Few days later she-without a single word of explanation-throws herself at me, slapping me, pulling my hair out, chocking me. Apparently they hadn't broken up but somehow it was my fault that he'd lied to me. Still got a chunk of hair shorter than the rest of it.
But this video is not about you, it's about those who do it on purpose
@@mewesquirrel6720 yeah, but it’s also the issue that the ‘other woman’ is demonised without thought, ya know? Without even talking to her first, no checking if the bf was lying?
You need to forgive her. Her trust was betrayed just as much as yours was, and she was lied to, just as much as you were. As much as you judge her for her misdirected anger, I'm judging you from misdirecting yours at her. Women lack political power. I forgive all women, regardless If they uphold the patriarchy or not. None of us are liberated. None of us are free.
@@mickjen her anger isnt misdirected towards the girlfriend, this woman physically assaulted her without her giving her a chance to explain. It isnt patriarchy as she isnt angry about the cheating boyfriend, its self respect as she doesnt want to be hit and slapped for no absolute reason.
@@Kiiiiiiiie facts
Hate how it's always the other woman (sometimes ignorant to the man in question being married) that is deemed the sole "home wrecker". The husband wrecked his own damn home!
Indeed, a man is rarely ever blamed for being a "Home Wrecker" in the same way a woman is, and most of the blame tends to fall on the mistress, when it takes TWO people to cheat, not just one.
Haha
Oh my god, the first season of Once Upon A Time had SUCH a frustrating sequence.
(Spoilers)
Like, Mary Margaret Blanchard was goddamn ostracised from the entire town, but no one raised a freaking EYEBROW at David, who was a consenting part in the affair and was, you know, THE ONE WITH A SIGNIFICANT OTHER.
It was at least ten years ago I first watched it, and I've never gotten over that.
As a dude... that's fair.
@@trinaq You are 100% wrong, they call that man a cheater. Just because they don't call it a home wrecker doesn't make it different.
I loved ‘The Crown’ depicting Camilla Parker Bowles. Of course, they are not absolved of their behaviour but we don’t have to be a misogynist and compare two women.
Agreed, I liked how they depicted the entire affair as messy and complicated, with nobody being fully innocent.
@@trinaq I was too young at the time to be Princess Diana obsessed fan, so this is genuine question, but what did Diana do wrong?
Me the ALPHA M*LE of this comment section and me command RESPECT. Right now me telling you to NOT observe any of me nice cool sweet videos. Instead just look at me awesome good powerful thumbnails. Thank you, dear po
@@panasit ok fiction, aside since the crown is not the real story and plays loose and fast with history. in the real world Charles and Camilla never saw each other for years unless at social events and reconciled their relationship in about 1986, after Charles and Diana's relationship had broken down entirely, about the same time Camilla and her own husbands did.
however Camilla and her husband didn't divorce until 1995, but had been living apart for a decade, Charles and Diana divorced about the same time a year before her death.
in the real world, it was a flawed marriage from the start, they cared about each other, but they were not compatible in the end, and it was always going to be an unhappy marriage, with both of them finding comfort in the arms of others, Charles realised that Camilla was the only one who was for him, whilst Diana embarked on several affairs of her own throughout her marriage.
they were both flawed in relation to their marriage and hindsight really is something in the end.
@@panasit It was about the three of them being human.
Oohhh yeah not gonna go with that last line: "we need to demystify the motivations of the other woman(...). She's just like any other person, looking for love or connection. We should be accepting that life is messy and contains all sorts of people, all of whom are main characters in their own stories. (...) She might just be a friend we haven't met yet." Yeah, pass. Sure, the cheater is worse than the 'other woman', but come on, unless that other woman is 100% oblivious to the fact that the dude is married, she's also a bad person doing a bad thing. Don't look for love within someone else's relationship! I knew this when I was 13 and in love with my best friend's boyfriend. You know what I did? I told her, and asked her if we could not meet up with the 3 of us for a while, because I needed some distance since I had these feelings. I NEVER persued this guy. Yeah, it sucked, you can't help who you fall in love with, but you choose what to do with this.
But he was your friend’s boyfriend. Sometimes you fall in love with someone and you’ve never met his/her partner. Then having an affair with this person doesn’t necessarily put you in the wrong toward the partner. I mean, you are not the one cheating. We shouldn’t put the blame on the lover in this situation I think.
@@loussis8584 if you know they have a partner, you are in the wrong period. You are compliant in knowingly and deeply harming another person.
@@sarahbates6534 well that's your opinion. I have a different one.
@@loussis8584 and for that opinion you are a bad person period. you're making excuses for your terrible behavior if you need 400 million reasons why "technically im not in the wrong" THEN YOURE IN THE WRONG. youre a narcisissts that wants to see yourself as the good guy who just "does bad things" when in reality youre just a bad person. actions speaks louder than words
@@loussis8584 And your opinion is pretty pathetic. Work on yourself. You’re willing doing something that’s hurting another person for selfish reasons. Take some responsibility.
Cassie received major flack for sleeping with her friend's ex, yet nobody brought up that Nate was also sleeping with HIS friend's ex. A sad, but accurate, double standard.
its the 'you cant shame the shameless' idea. men are expected to be shitty so the awful things they do are looked over, while women are expected to be better people inherently and we're shamed to hell and back for mistakes we make in a way men aren't. see trump and hilary
@@reginakc they didnt anywhere near as much, all the hate was toward cassie
I mean,Cassie got involved with Nate after he and Maddy broke up, she didn't "stole" him or "seduced him" , if someone is "the other woman" for Maddy-Nate that would be Jules and even then she didn't know it was Nate the person she bonded with online.
Nate is such a horrible little person
That’s true, but to be fair no one, not even the show cares about MKay that much. If as liked, or given as much screen time as a Maddy, I’m sure the reaction would be different.
I agree the the cheating man is just as responsible but I feel there's no need to portray a woman who knowingly got or stayed with a married man positively. I am all for positive portrayal of the other woman in movies like the other woman (Cameron Diaz) because she didn't know but I can't stand Natalie Portman's character in "The Other Woman". She knowing wrecked another woman's home and also had the gall to be still judge her father for cheating after marrying a cheater. And that movie portrays his wife as a worse character which was the tip of the iceberg.
Can't agree more.
Nah. Stop saying women “wrecked another woman’s home”. This is a misogynistic mindset. The cheating MALE wrecked his own home.
I agree that the “other woman” who knew he’s married should be held accountable. But calling her a “home wrecker” is anti-feminist.
@@exoticsamba492 It's not anti feminist because she also played a part in wrecking that home by agreeing to get involved with him, especially if she seduced him. Plus, it's not gender thing as I'd even call a man who gets with a married woman a home wrecker.
Hear hear
@@exoticsamba492 if you help someone hide a body, aren’t you subject to a crime? If you help a man cheat knowingly you are partially responsible
I agree with the take up until a certain point. Let me explain. Cheating is terrible and there is no good enough excuse to justify it.
Should we only blame the other woman or claim she is stealing the wife/girlfriend's husband/boyfriend away: No. Because both parties are at fault. The man and said the other woman.
Should we villainize the other woman: Not necessarily.
The reason why is because you have some women, who have no idea that the guy they're seeing is already in a relationship. What villainizes the other woman is the fact that she is made aware of the closed relationship and continues to see the guy anyway. It's not the fact that she is "stealing away" the husband/boyfriend (because as stated before it takes two to tango) but it's the fact that she purposely hurts another woman that is where I feel The Take gets it wrong. You're building your happiness off of someone else's misery, a person who probably doesn't deserve it. It's one thing if it's an open relationship or whatever arrangement, it should be properly discussed and agreed upon by all parties. But if one party isn't aware while the other two are, sorry to say but that's cheating.
That is what villainized Cassie (Euphoria) and Olivia (Scandal) for me. Because they chose a guy over the woman they were friends with. They actively and purposely chose to have an affair with these men, knowing that if their respective friends ever found out, it hurt them. Though I'm sympathetic towards Cassie and Olivia's personal issues and believe they should get some help; it doesn't excuse their behavior. No one forced Cassie to go out with a guy, who is not only a cheater but an abuser. She did it of her own free will. Along with Olivia, who has had an affair with her friend's husband for how long. And the fact that these women choose a guy over their female friends, raises a question: Isn't that action a little patriarchal/misogynistic?
So for the answer The Take final question, Are they bad people for doing this: No, cheating doesn't make you evil. I agree with them on that. However they are not completely absolved from what they did. To quote Queen Latifah from Last Holiday "They're never bad people. They're greedy people."
But that's just my opinion, I may not have all the answers but I know the difference between what's fair and what's unfair. If anyone is unhappy in a relationship, you either need to discuss it with your partner or just not be together anymore. It sucks and it's awkward but I think if you can get through the puberty/sex talk aka the most awkward and uncomfortable conversation(s) in history then you should be able to survive a breakup talk.
And for anybody out there who is being cheated on. You don't need another person to complete you. You were already the shit before you got into that relationship and you still will be when it's over. It's made not feel like it but you are the shit and you don't deserve to be hurt or disrespected not by anybody. And
Thanks to whoever is reading this.
THANK YOU SOMEONE SAID IT. It is true that both parties can be at fault, and that both should be held accountable. I think what should be done is to see what drove them to do those things, but never excuse them or say "They're not the ones at fault."
Thank you! This is how I feel. I was cheated on and I blamed both parties. Him for cheating & her for helping him cheat. It takes 2. She actually messaged me on instagram at some point to ask me a few questions which for some reason I answered & so i asked her if it ever occured to her that by her actions, she was helping to destroy someones life & inflict grief and pain? She said it did occur to her but essentially that it didn't matter as much as her own happiness. So there you have it! Cheating is never ok and people who cheat or help someone cheat? Well they're people that for the sake of their own whims/desires have NO problem destroying someones world & causing someone the worst pain imaginable. I don't think much of either of those people. Man or woman. Not saying that's all they are we aren't 2 dimensional charactors but what you do when no one is watching. That says a lot.
Agreed!
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is.
'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy.
And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
it has nothing to do with patrarchy,hurting someone that you love is hard thats why we divert our anger to the other person(its much easier) and this goes for both the gender(men literally get into fist fight with other guy which might lead to someone being dead),its just that women using social isolation and torture to hurt other women while man use physical
I'm a feminist but I do find it frustrating that this channel sometimes excuses shitty behaviour from a woman and portrays them as a victim. Yes life is messy and other women shouldn't be portrayed in a misogynistic way but it doesn't excuse the bad behaviour.
Another commenter is right that your narrative cheaters aren't happy is a victim blaming one, there are cheaters who are happy enough and simply cheat for the thrill. You did not emphasise enough that Cassie Howard got vitriol from the fandom because she was dating her friend's ABUSIVE ex. I love this channel for the most part but honestly some of these angles are so wack.
Thank you!!!!!! I thought I was the only one that felt this way. A lot of these shows that they used as examples, are not with the most likable characters. For example, I have never liked Carrie from sex in the city, it took me two episodes to know that. They tried to humanise Cassie saying that all she wanted was love when in reality, what she was striving for was kinda pathetic and as a result of daddy issues. Cassie was literally the first person Maddy would go to when Nate did something to her, so she practically knew how horrible he was and she STILL got with him. I loved Scandal as a show but I did not like Fitz, he kinda gave me rich, entitled, frat boy vibes, like how did he become the president of the US? Some times I did not like Olivia and was on the First Lady’s side. Being an other woman is not a victim role. Unless you did not know that the guy was committed to someone else, you are carry some guilt along with the cheating partner.
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is.
'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy.
And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
@@baonguyenxuanthai711 I think there's a balance here, of course she shouldn't be vilified and I think Fleabag was very interesting look into this trope, but that doesn't excuse bad behaviour and this channel in particular falls into a very lazy trap of using the patriarchy as an explanation for female villains/antivillains/antiheroes
But hasn’t that what this current wave of feminism been doing? You know? Portraying women as victims?
I walked in on my ex sleeping with another woman. He ran out of the house and left the two of us alone, we spoke and neither of us knew about the other one. I stupidly took my ex back and became friends with the other woman. I then catch them again and it hurt so much worse the second time as she knew I was dating him and was even texting me to help make excuses for him. Now, it was the same hurt from the ex but this extra betrayal from a new friend cut worse. So no, The Take, she is not likely to be "a new friend in disguise". She went from innocent and fellow victim of my ex's lies to becoming a villian alongside my ex.
My ex-husband cheated on me with my cousin. I sometimes feel guilty that they met because of me. Anyways, I'm grateful for the last blow on a crappy marriage. I'm out and proud as a transman now, and I'm sure being trans had something to do with all this even though he knew my truth.
That’s a bit more low than any of these examples given (that I’ve seen, I haven’t watched them all). Wow. What a cousin, too.
The family element adds an extra dimension of terrible here. I'm so sorry for that shitty experience, Mitch. Glad you're done with someone that's clearly a horrible person though.
@@singularity___ that's kind of you, and I was a closeted transman at the time with an even more closeted bisexual man. Hence, why I feel sorry for my coz, she got a man who at best hates himself.
@@TheBLGL yeah. It was... an experience. I'm doing much better now.
@@mitcharendt2253 oh man, that's sad....
But glad you are doing well and are happy now.
A shocking yet not so shocking moment was when Princess Diana mentioned that Prince Charles felt he shouldn’t be the only Prince of Wales without a mistress. I mean, how do you even begin to unpack that?
Literally him just admitting that he feels entitled to access to an additional body
In that case, diana was living in a gold's cage but all women have agency, if you're single you need to spot these red flags, because men always tell us in some way or other how they actually feel about loyalty, exclusivity, monogamy, etc, but sometimes women don't want to acknowledge the facts. For example: in first dates guys have told me they don't believe in monogamy, they wanted to experienced because there are so many beautiful women, and the list goes on.
That's why I feel in unfair for blaming the other women, yes, is not feminist to participate in an affair because you're feeding a monster. But you or anyone has always the power to stop it. Don't conform to that, that's how you start, if other women do it or not, let those be their problems but not yours.
@@marte1376 He told her this in the course of their marriage and when she was single, she was hoodwinked into marrying by the Crown.
@@PokhrajRoy. yeah but I'm not speaking about diana , I'm speaking to women in general. I don't understand your reply
@@marte1376 Watch the previous video on ‘The Crown’ and you’ll get the context.
In a past where women depended completely on marriage for economic and social security, having an affair with someone’s husband was basically threatening her entire foundation. Now, she can divorce and support herself. But back in the day, it was a bigger deal, and ‘the other woman’ would be aware of this.
This is an important thing to note. It's not all just fun and games and heartfeels. There are serious implications to disrupting a marriage, even to this day. It's threatening livelihoods
This is true 100% especially because another woman can get pregnant! There is nothing cute about being the other woman
I suppose women's financial security is not as threatened now as it was in previous decades.
It's only the foundation of a family/home/and life that was painstakingly built together over the coarse of many years.
Only the mental and emotional foundation of everyone who was harmed by two selfish people is rocked and damaged.
But at least their financially okay so cheating must not be so bad
@@Lalan396 I don't think they were implying that, they were just saying how it could literally and completely ruin a family's life financially and social standing back in the day. It's still horrible, but at least you may not have to starve/become homeless if your husband leaves you. I say may not, be ause there's still a chance you still could be in some societies/circumstances. And there is definitely still some people who will blame you for them leaving too, unfortunately.
True 👌🏿 there was a period in history, not too long ago, where women were considered to have limited legal rights. You either “belonged” to a father or a husband.
its wrong for a woman to engage in a relationship with a man who she knows is married or in a relationship, but its not fair for the girl to only hate the "other woman" and go forgive the man. the man is the one who chose to cheat on you and its mostly his fault.
Pretty much, we should be able to call that kind of woman a shitty person as long as the man gets the majority of the blame because he's the one who broke his promise. What she did is still a shitty thing to do that only a shitty person would do.
Why is a man cheating being portrayed as a positive in this video? Cheating is not okay and should not be treated as a solution to abuse (Joey's mother in Friends). Worst "Take" yet.
I'm sick of glorification of extra marital affair. The Take is disgusting for trying to justify it in the end.
You want to have a new chick for your fantasy. Be a man. Get a divorce first.
And also I blame the Man for destroying marriage and not the other women, because the other women may or may not know that the guy is married, but the husband knew, he took the vow.
I think consent is the key to all of this, some people are happy with polyamory and open relationships and that's okay too as long as everybody in that realtionship is down with it.
But if someone feels pressured into it or doesn't know about it then yes it is pretty disgusting.
@@snowrose6253 yeah but polyamory its not cheating
In my experience, women who justified it, are women who have slept with married men. You can't called them out, when you are one of them. Source? Me, and old woman with life experience.
being a man does not mean when you find younger hotter woman you leave your wife and family to be with her.hurting your wife is not manly.taking responsibility is manly having emotional maturity and understanding and controlling attraction is manly.boys dont have self control man do
I totally agree with you...I mean problems occur in every relationship and if you have issues sort them out because thats what partners should do...and if nothing works get a divorce...of course its a fact that life is complex and human nature is highly nuanced but blaming the actions of every cheater on patriarchy and absolving every "other women" sets an extremely dangerous precedent...
My friend unknowingly became the “other woman”. The guy was apparently already engaged but his fianceé was working in another country. They dated for almost a year then the guy started giving her the cold shoulder and eventually ghosted her. Turns out her fianceé was coming home and they were getting married. It was fucked up.
I’m so sorry, that sounds horrible-I hope that your friend is okay.
Yeah I never understood how the hate could be directed to only the ‘other woman’. Like no, it takes two to tango
it should be directed at both people involved
Because we as a society know Marriage isn't perfect and there are cracks. So for someone to seek to take advantage of that is generally considered bad.
@@Chris-rg6nm So let's drag August Alsina over Jada Pinkett. 💁♀️
It's foolish to think your spouse can't be taken from you. People are human they aren't unmovable objects.
it's because people don't want to accept that someone they loved and trusted betrayed them. They blame the 'other woman' or 'other man' because that person means nothing to them to begin with so they're a lot easier to hate.
When I discovered my ex was cheating on me I first tried to warn the other girl and wanted to find out if she even knew because you never know...unfortunately she did and they were both to blame but if she hadn't known of me I would've seen her as a victim too.
Well...atleast karma is a comforting thing.
No, a woman who makes another woman miserable should be held accountable. She is not as guilty as the cheater, but she is still guilty.
Do you ever feel like the take tend to sympathize/ understand toxic behavior like pick me more than saying it's OK not to forgive them
@@millsgurl8358 Exactly. We can understand their motives and mentality, but that doesn't mean we must accept or forgive their actions. In Turkish, we have a saying: "kadın kadının yurdudur", which means "a woman is home to other women". We basically are not allowed to purposely hurt another fellow woman.
@@tigress5173 i like that saying. its nice
Doesn’t matter if she’s “just another girl looking for someone to love and understand her” you simply don’t get in the way of marriages or pre existing relationships. Thats trashy af
Yeah, the cheating partner is never held as accountable as the one their cheating with, and that's truly bogus. It's not cool to carry on with someone that's known to be married or in a relationship, but their partner is the one they should really be upset with. That's my opinion anyways!
Does the guy hold the "other woman" down and force himself upon her? If so, he should be arrested. If not, and she willingly gets into bed with him, knowing he has a wife and kids at home, she is nothing more than a homewrecker and deserves whatever she gets.
It happens because it’s easier to have a scapegoat and vilify the other woman than to realize the man you love, the man you STILL love, despite his cheating, wronged you. It’s a way the cheated on spouse can continue to be in denial that their spouse doesn’t love them enough to be faithful.
The other woman has time to manicure her nails
The other woman is perfect where her rival fails
And she's never seen with pin curls in her hair, anywhere.
Fatal Attraction. Curls.
Lana ❤️🔥
Immediately thought of Lana when I saw the thumbnail
"To be the mistress of a married man is to have the better role. Do you realize? His dirty shirt, his disgusting underwear, his daily ironing, his bad breath, his hemorrhoid attacks, his fuss, not to mention his bad moods, and his tantrums. Well all that is for his wife.
When a married man comes to his mistress... he's always bleached and ironed, his teeth sparkle, his breath is like perfume, he's in a good mood, he's full of conversation, he is there to have a good time with you."
-- Embroideries by Marjane Satrapi
I disagree. You (the take) cannot victimise every one all the time. I agree the cheating partner is as much, if not more, to be blamed for cheating, but this does not make the "other woman" a victim either. If a person KNOWINGLY has an affair with a married man she is not a victim with redemption arc. Cheating and breaking a trust of your partner is a horrible thing to do. It affects not only the wife but the entire family. Imagine you are a child of a parent that cheated and then try to victimise the "other woman". If she is not entirely wrong but she isn't right either.
My favorite take on the trope is "the other woman was also lied to and believed that he was single, she finds out he was a lying bastard, tells the wife, and the two of the women team up to ruin his life and then become BFFs"
Watch the other woman. I love that movie and that’s basically the whole plot
"Seeking love" does not justify knowingly and willingly participating in hurting another person, especially if that person is someone you consider a friend. Both the man and other woman are wrong, she's not a victim. The victim is the person being cheated on. That's all.
I’m sorry, but no. No to this whole video. Did you seriously just ask your viewers to sympathize with grown ass women who knowingly and willingly engage in a relationship with someone else’s boyfriend/husband? Seriously!?!?
While I fully agree that the cheater carries far more responsibility than the other person, asking us to view her as “complex” is just effing disgusting. Women are fully capable of being held accountable for their hurtful actions. Being lonely and having low self-esteem or other issues does not give anyone license to hurt someone else, nor does it make you “complex”. If you engage in an affair with a married man, you are not a victim (unless he is quite literally victimizing you). You are someone who is getting a kick out of being with a man who is willing to jeopardize his whole life just to be with you. You’re just feeding your ego and his. You do not care how this will impact his wife and his family because you’re too busy “saving” him from his unhappy marriage. One that, of course, is never unhappy enough for him to actually leave, but you continue to accept his lies and excuses because he “really loves” you and “the situation is complicated”. It’s not complicated; he just wants to have his cake and eat it too and you’re too dumb and sad to face it.
If you have ever felt the betrayal of infidelity then you know all too well that while your partner is the one who should be taking the blame, you can’t help but to think “How could this person, who doesn’t even know me, participate in doing this to me? What did I do to them that they would want to hurt me like this?” You know it’s not logical, but it’s there. The desire to look them in the face and ask why is overwhelming. You want your partner to have to face consequences for their actions, but you want the other person to have to face it too. You want the opportunity to tell them that everything he said to get you into bed is probably a lie. You want them to have to look at your puffy eyes, your splotchy face, and your emaciated body and justify their actions to you.
Whoever wrote this clearly has not experienced what it’s like to feel so betrayed. To feel so worthless that you want to curl up and die. To feel so humiliated that your partner lied to your face for so long while you were just living your life with them, having no clue about what was going on right under your nose. To feel like all the years you committed to someone was just a waste. To have to wonder how many times they looked at you from across the room and only felt disappointed and annoyed by your love. To have to see the heartbreak in your family’s eyes when you have to explain why the two of you are no longer together. Maybe if you had endured this kind of pain, you would’ve known better than to make a video in which you’re asking for sympathy for the other woman, fictional or otherwise. This kind of behavior, from ANYONE, is immature at best and totally destructive at worst. Both parities participating in the affair deserve every judgement lobbed in their direction, and then some.
This was gross. Do better next time.
Okay Thankyou! I agree this video screamed "I'm other woman but please don't be mad"
Exactly-but hey, at least they end with some not-at-all toxic gems like “maybe after going through this the wife/girlfriend will emerge stronger, more independent (another woman)” and “maybe we should just be more honest, sometimes our partners aren’t attracted to us and want variety.” 🙄
Honestly, even as a kid, I never understood how there was so much more hate for "the other woman" (or man) than there was for the person who actually cheated. Like, sure, knowingly helping someone cheat is a bad thing to do, but you know what's obviously worse? Being the person who actually cheated. Your husband/boyfriend is not some mindless automaton that loses his free will around pretty people.
Seems that way though lol
I do wish you would have mentioned the fact that the Hays Code actually *required* unchaste women to be punished on-screen. This is why so many movies during those years end with The Other Woman suddenly getting hit by a car and dying at the end of the movie.
Thank GOD this video is getting the flak it deserves. Not every hot take is a good take
Sorority and common sense. Don't purposefully hurt another woman, and if he did this to her, he'll do it to you.
I generally don't have respect for women that choose to be with men already married (especially men with kids). However the men is the one to be blamed first.
What i find cathartic is the wife and the mistress to realises they both deserves better and to ditch the man and go full bestie
The cheating man is the one to blame. Doesn't matter how miserable the marriage/relationship is, cheating is never the answer.
And the other woman/man if they knowingly participated.
I'll never understand why cheating people will say how their relationship is miserable, and yet never leave the relationship. Like are you really miserable in the relationship? Because if you were then pretty sure you'd be gone by now. Plus you would save yourself from a lot of drama, but I guess you can never take a cheater's word.
I have to disagree with this take. It’s one thing is the man keeps his marital status from “the other woman” in the dark. She’s just as much a victim as the wife to the man’s lies.
But if a woman knowingly pursued a man who is married…that’s wrong as well. Obviously, the fault should lie more with the man than the other woman, but nonetheless, she’s still at fault.
Now if a woman stays with her many after multiple infidelities and accepts them…well there’s fault with her as well, because her staying with him shows that she accepts it. She can’t blame the other woman for her man’s repeated infidelities.
i dont know about the last bit though. Relationships are complicated but yeah, i don't think you are necessarily at fault or "accepting it". If you stay with someone who hits or cheats on you, only the person hitting or cheating is at fault. Ofc the person staying in that relationship needs therapy but i wouldn't say they are "at fault". If they truly accepted it, there would be a conversation about opening a relationship or something like that, for me cheating is a form of emotional abuse.
@@allysiren when I mean by the married woman being at fault if she stays with her man, I meant that she can’t be mad at the other woman, since her staying with the man means she accepts his behavior. Reading my initial comment, I see how that doesn’t come across well.
@@allysiren married ladies are not victims as well, i know is a hard statement but let's stop feeding victim mentality.
The other woman has responsibility but you have it as well the moment you decide to shut your mouth and pretending nothings happening. Sometimes the other woman cares two cents about him or his family, not all mistresses suffer, suffer the ones that care for the dude.
And I'm pretty sure he gave you signs he was non commit al the moment you were getting to know him.
I agree on this comment, women are not and shouldn't be responsible for the lives of other women, yes, a woman that contributes to the infidelity of a guy is not feminist, blablabla, but let's stop pretending the ones that were cheated on have no agency, they do, and you need to take your decisions based on your wellness
@@marte1376 they may not always be able to leave, though. The husband may be violent, threaten her, pressure from society, etc. In many countries, divorce is difficult and divorced women have a hard time in society.
No. This is extremely condescending to any woman who’s ever been cheated on and quite frankly, women who choose to ruin relationships and families. With the very distinct exception of a woman who unknowingly cheats with someone who is already in a relationship because she has been mislead and lied to a woman who knowingly cheats with a taken partner of someone else should absolutely be vilified. To say a man who is manipulative and slick is the only reason a woman would become the other woman is a little devaluing to a woman’s ability to be equal to men in terms of sexual desires and power dynamics, women CAN be hurtful villains too, you know, just like men. Hurting another person for the sake of fulfilling your own selfish desires is unacceptable and cruel, it doesn’t matter if you aren’t intently trying to be malicious. Yes, the partner who is cheating should absolutely be held responsible for their actions but so should “the other woman”. This video even seems to excuse cheating by saying that people shouldn’t feel ownership over their partners, it even almost sounds like your saying that that they’re asking for it if they aren’t as awesome as the side chick. I’m done with this channel and it’s contradicting values and views on women.
Your comment is entirely misogynistic.
How is the other woman equally a villain? The only one to blame here is the cheater and the cheater ONLY!
@@exoticsamba492 If a woman gets into a relationship with a taken man, yes, she is equally the villain. A man can't cheat unless a woman cheats with him. Stop calling everything ''misogynistic''. Ya'll don't even use it correctly
@@wildheart2978 Nope. It IS misogynistic. She’s not “equally” the villain. Unless she your trusted family or friend, she doesn’t owe you anything. Only your man owes you loyalty.
And funny how you say “a man can’t cheat unless a woman cheats with him”, as if having the desire the cheat is the woman’s fault. When will you people ever hold MEN accountable alone???
As a SATC fan, I really appreciated how "And Just Like That" humanized Natasha.
She was humanised in season 3 too. When Charlotte defended her
Can we just agree that if the affair partner (male or female) KNOWS the person is married they are equally selfish for participating? So no, they aren't the one who made the vow but they KNOW that they are benefiting and receiving pleasure at the expense of another person. The affair partner is gaining from another person's pain and loss. Cheaters go to GREAT lengths to cover up their infidelity, including gaslighting and verbal emotional/abuse to make the betrayed spouse back down. It's incredibly traumatic for the betrayed spouse.
I compare being the affair partner to knowingly receiving stolen items. No, you may not be the one who stole it but you KNOW the item is stolen and that you have no right to it. If someone breaks into a house and steals something from the owner and then they give it to you and you KNOW IT'S STOLEN, it is impossible to receive that gift in good faith. You are not a victim, you are an accomplice after the fact. The affair partner is receiving love, time, attention, and affection that are only supposed to be given to the spouse Again, you are not a victim, you've chosen to be accomplice. Get your own shit.
What people don't understand is that people hate to be cheated on so we're understanding fuled with anger and betrayal I'm not going to let someone walk over me and get the upper hand.
Just remember it takes 2 people to cheat
and what are you supposed to do? Let's put the worse of your escenarios where the other woman is giving you war, are you going to compete ?
Some say, all is fair in love and war, I still don't know what is a good answer to that
@@marte1376 it's not about love it's about selfishness it really pathetic that someone who thinks has the higher ground just to sleep with someone who's married guess what sweet heart your not special he or she just going to replace you that's it.
@@annasullivan9768 yeah he may replaced you but you're still allowing that to happen and that person is communicating that you're not that important or unique even if you're in a relationship. And actually the ones that believe that are superior are the person actively cheating, your points are twisted and again, you're falling in the trap of blaming the other person because a person doesn't see you as enough. I really don't know what is worse
@@marte1376 I'm blaming both you know when a man is catching his wife cheating it's not a big deal but if it's the other way around every one quickly defends the side girl even though she knew the guy is married.
I stand firmly on the stance that Cassie is a shit friend for what she did to Maddie and doesn’t deserve a pass because she has daddy issues 🤷🏾♀️
There is only one person abusing you when your husband cheats..... YOUR HUSBAND. If a guy cheats he is the asshole no one else. Also if he does it with you he will do it to you.
Not so fast, Sues Anna- the other woman who knowingly engages in sex with the married man is indeed also an asshole.
What is this? You can blame both parties. I don’t have to absolve either one
Previously had a couple of men I dated try to make me the other woman after leaving me because I didn't want kids. Their fantasy didn't work out and I was always horrified and enraged on the womans behalf considering the wife was home raising a small child. Really made me view it all differently and no never gone there. I wouldnt do to others what I wouldn't want doing to myself.
Did you tell their wives that their husbands were trying to cheat on them?
@@kittykittybangbang9367 have you ever had that conversation. The woman mostly gets blamed or they thank you and staying with the man on the whole.
My favorite "Other Woman" movie was John Tucker Must Die because all of them were technically "The Other Woman" but they all teamed up to get back at the man who made them that way rather than take it out on each other. In the end, he learned to embrace his polyamory, his interest in open relationships, and at least became more honest. He was never going to be faithful, and it was good that women who wanted that could avoid him.
I usually agree with your takes but this just pure cheating apologia. Yes, ultimately the one who breaks a vow is to blame but becoming a mistress knowingly and willing is also worthy of moral condemnation. There is no need to romanticize it as oh, she's just looking for love. And to suggest that Joey's mom should be happy she's getting cheated on 'cuz her husband's been in a good mood ever since is... well, a choice.
I swear I think The Take staff must take bets every month on what sort of awful behaviors they can try to justify when women are the ones who do it.
Cheating is wrong, for both the cheater and the other woman/man. Period. If the relationship is bad or unfulfilling in some way, end it. Or keep torturing yourself. But don't cheat. It's just shitty, unexcusable behavior.
To say the other woman is just lonely and looking for love is such a weak argument. You're saying that, because someone wants something, they can try to take that thing from someone else without their consent? Tell me in what other situation that would hold true.
I know that things aren't always black and white. I get that. And not all cheating is equally despicable. But it's a matter of "how wrong is it," not "is it ok to do sometimes."
True. The _other woman_ can find a similar but single man.
Men are like buses: there is a new one every 20 minutes.
I kind of experienced the reverse of this. (I feel like telling a story, so this the short version of a long situation)
When I was in high school, I was in a very toxic, codependent relationship with a boy for a whole year and a half. Throughout that time span, we fought nearly constantly and grew to resent each other, but we were so lonely and insecure that we were afraid to leave each other. We thought that our companionship was all we had in life. (ew)
Towards the end of our relationship, I started trying to work on myself. I realized that I couldn't keep mothering this person when I was struggling just to care for myself in my everyday life. I began putting a bit of distance between us while I sorted out my emotions. One morning, we were arguing about whether the bass in "Roundabout" was good, and he spat on me. We went our separate ways. I spend the rest of that day thinking about how that was the first day of the rest of my life being free. I didn't really know what to do with myself, but I did end up listening to some really good new music and started painting again. After school that day, I began walking towards the train station a few miles away. Suddenly, I heard my name being called. It was a boy that I kind of knew.
I knew him from the bus a couple years before. He would sit next to me for the ride home every day after school and go on and on about the most irrelevant crap. I was going through some stuff that year, and wanted to be left alone by everyone. When he finally kinda grew on me and I started developing a crush on him, he stopped taking the bus and I didn't see him even once for nearly 3 years.
I guess that day he saw me sitting alone at lunch, and the way I was walking happened to be heading towards where he parked his car. He was always a talker, and when we got to talking, we talked about everything. He was the first person I've ever been able to open up to so fast, and he was interested to hear about things in my life that my ex had scoffed at. He walked all the way to the train station with me.
The next week was Spring break, and that was tough. My ex reached out, and out of the strange loneliness of sitting at home all week wondering what to do now that we were single, we decided to hang out. I thought we would try out being friends. In the mean time, I also became friends with the new boy. When school started up the next week, we all tried hanging out together. Ex's and my mutual friends liked new boy immediately, but my ex, not so much. It was very hostile and awkward.
Anyways, ex, and I grew distant as friendship was not going to work out, and new boy and I grew a lot closer. A few weeks passed, and ex and I decided, very harshly and explicitly, that we would not associate anymore. A couple days after that, new boy and I very suddenly got together. I made the first move, he would have been content just being friends even though he liked me.
He and I were happy together in our own little world, actually going out with friends, and reconnecting with some of my old friends. My world opened up a lot, and I learned how to be more mature. Things were really peaceful for us, and I decided I didn't have time for bull anymore. A month later, at the end of the school year, he and I both left that school, so I could pursue independent study for my last year of school. We ended up moving in together part time.
What I didn't know was that my ex had gone around spreading rumors that I was stolen from him. I was not stolen, I am not an object, I left because our relationship was quite terrible, my family hated him and his mother hated me, and a whole long list of occurrences. By fate or by chance, I ended up with the affection of somebody who could provide exactly what I needed at the time, and then some.
New boy and I are still together, no idea where ex is in life now. Hope he's chillin, hope he improved as a bass player. (Not so) new boy will still talk your ear off, but now I talk just as much.
This probably isn't relevant, I haven't even watched the vid yet. We are all beings of free will, not things that can be stolen.
“I will not be IGNORED, Dan!” - Alex Forrest
I loved that line, even though Alex was severely unhinged, Glen Close brilliantly brought her to life.
this channel loves that movie, and same 😭
😹
I felt bad for the wife, the daughter and obviously the rabbit in this film, but never for the guy.
The Other Man is more likely to be portrayed as being in the right or getting redemption at the end. The original husband is more likely to be the villain, like Sack Lodge in Wedding Crashers or Cal Hockley from Titanic.
If women can compromise and agree their partners to have a mistress, men should understand woman can have affairs too. But in reality, it is about controlling women and treating us as collectible items.
I love you The Take, but justifying the knowing mistress because she wants to find looooove... Come on
The official wife/girlfriend wants love as well
Agreed, this is total BS and there ARE predatory, damaged women that get a sick thrill out of cavorting with married men.
THIS. The take missed it on this one. There is NO brand of 'feminism' to justify the other woman.
You lost me at the 2nd half. The other woman is not always a victim and is not to be befriended or sympathized with.
Marriage has, and still is, a form if security for women. When a man seeks a mistress, this becomes a threat to a wife's security and her children. If the affair is 'successful' it will mean the children will have an absent father and inevitable poverty for the wife.
I know one woman whose husband cheated on her. At the time she was married with 3 kids. Her husband suddenly decided he didn't want her anymore, ditched her and his kids and got remarried to his mistress. That woman now is now living in a cramped apartment, living on a teacher's salary and single handedly raising 3 kids.
I feel bad for that woman. Hopefully that mistress will realize what a horrible person that husband was, and maybe he'll cheat on her again.
One thing about infidelity, yes, some people willingly get in relationships with taken people, which sets everyone up for failure. But some people are mistresses because the other person lies about their relationship status and he/she is playing both of them. Mistresses get played regardless, though, because they often think they're gonna be with the person.
Can you believe that some of the most well know actresses have been the other woman, but have still managed to keep their popularity up and high. The Angelina Jolie Brad Bitt affair reminds me so much that of Elizabeth Taylor and Eddie Fisher. In a way the two women remind me of each other.
Bridget and Natasha both deserved better than Mark, there I said it. Usually the man in the center aren't great shakes, like comes off as to mediocre to be with these different women (who are irresistible or awe worthy in their own way, sometimes because they put up with HIM).
I heard Jackie stopped going to a theater and watching Arthur Miller because his play that put down Marilyn played there. She found it dishonorable.
No mention of Monica Lewinsky or ACS Impeachment?
One of the best parts of Legally Blonde was when Elle and Vivian realized that the guy they were fighting over wasn’t actually worth much-his success almost depended on their directing their energies at each other. So they ditched him and became best friends.
@@Echo-mg5em And that is why LB will forever trump BJD
There are 2 types of other women. The one who's well aware of the guy's marriage, and the one who's unaware. The one who's aware is a patriarchal ally since her actions benefit men. She sees women as competition and sometimes goes as far as only dating married men to make herself feel good. This woman has internalized misogyny and believes that men are some sort of prize. In that case, she deserves equal blame as the cheating man. But the other woman who is unaware is a victim just as much as the wife. The problem with society is that both of these other women will solely get the home-wrecker blame. In both cases, the true home wrecker is the married man who stepped out on his family.
Dude. The other woman isn't a threat because she breaks the traditional family.
It's a threat because it encourages the idea that cheating is fine.
There's a difference between accountability and villainizing and that's where this situation falls but unfortunately we tend to blur the line between the two. If you are in a relationship and you cheat you are wrong. If you cheat with someone who you know is in a relationship you are wrong. You should be held accountable on that front. But that doesn't always make you the villain, because life is not a movie and there frequently aren't villains, just people.
I like that you point out the other woman not knowing. I had a boyfriend and we broke up, then we started going back out again, but we didn't hang out as much as we had before and he was busier. "Busier". One day I just dropped by, and when is cousin, my good friend told him to talk to me, he told me the reason he hadn't been around as much was out in the garage with his friends. He was dating someone else when he asked be to be his girlfriend again. I left with a bye and didn't talk to him again until he was dating my sister and I was moving out with my now husband.
Next: The Wife as the Villain, unlike the good and understanding New True Love ... both these stereotypes are used like forever.
This trope is everywhere. In « Dirty John : The Betty Broderick case » , where the mistress is portrayed as irresistible too but younger and better and who never partake in the hardships. She is reaping all the benefits and Betty is the villain. I was so mad. She has her shortcomings too but it was hard to watch. At least, the writers didn’t portrayed Broderick as a victim.
« In behind her eyes », Louise doesn’t even get some grace when her boss was the one cheating on his wife. She was clearly a woman who were looking for a great love story. Don’t even talk about the power dynamic in that case. The moment she wasn’t cooperating, she was fired.
« In 9 and 1/2 weeks », I think they perfectly shown how the other woman can have fun with the married man but how vulnerable and sad she’s truly is. For a married man is more like a sex escapism when in her case , it’s more like trying to find a good partner. But if this man is already cheating on his wife with you, he already showed you who he truly is.
I’m immediately thinking back to how we viewed Monica Lewinsky in the 90s vs now. In the 90s we all completely vilified her & tore her apart, but it’s been amazing to see her reclaim her narrative, and that we’ve all been able to see her as someone taken advantage of by someone so powerful
And in the series “Impeachment” we saw that Hillary (however you feel about her) was also a victim of Bill’s actions.
Hillary knew what she was getting with Bill. Even back at their days at Yale. She's very savvy and she's no victim (some might say I'm being polite).
I dunno. My grandfather cheated on his dying wife with her best friend, and as a result married her after my grandmother's death. My mother didn't talk to him for 16 years, so hurt was she by "That Woman".
So let's summarize the points made here:
1. The other woman is not always to blame because the married man is an active participant in the relationship.
- okay. Totally agree with that.
2. The other woman might be an ex, and the lines of who belongs to whom might be blurred.
- do not agree completely, but I see the point here. Yes it humanizes the other woman and gives a perspective that reality is not black and white. However, I would say, you can be the "down-to-earth" or "destined" lover, yet chasing an ex-lover who took a vow with another person is morally WRONG. I can tell though there's room for sympathy there; people make mistakes.
3. If someone is in a straight relationship and suddenly realizing they are gay, then it's okay to cheat.
-Sorry but that is utter bulls*it. The bar of morality does not somehow disappear for homosexual people. If you are in a straight relationship/marriage and realize you were wrong about your sexual orientation, just be honest with your partner, divorce them and then go look for your gay/lesbian lover.
Cheating is wrong, PERIOD. There are very areas in live, yes, but please do not try to justify it all in the name of love. There are other things as well, like the sanctity of a vow to another human being, the principle of not hurting other human beings for selfish reasons, respect etc. This is so sick to try to justify wrongdoing cause it was done under the umbrella of "true looove".
P.S. I know of a straight couple where the man cheated with another man; sorry it was nothing like Friends. He was horrible to her and no, she did not forgive and put a Ross'like smile on for her husband's true love. As for exes who "belong"ed to each other before the marriage happened, yes it is hard because yours feelings mess with your head; yet you need to learn to politely refuse a married person's advances towards you. Because their new partner haven't wronged you in any way and does not deserve to be hurt.
Bottom line, please do not promote wrong behavior. All human beings make mistakes, but those actions are not acceptable.
*THANK YOU!!!*
I'm so tired when the media tries to overly victimize the LGBT who get with the opposite sex to hide their true preference. They aren't always poor, oppressed souls who are hiding their true selves in a heteronormative society. Very often, they're only doing it for appearances while doing what you just described. This is very common among religious circles (especially Mormons, go read about this).
This is what I hate about the other woman. Even when she knows her lover is married, she doesn’t respect that. She doesn’t say “no. You’re married. Go away “
🙄🙄🙄🙄
‘The Gilded Age’ was mentioned and I’m so happy it is because it was actually great fun! (Not to say it’s not without its limitations)
I'm so mad about the gilded age. They left all the questions open...😭😭😭😭
the take is the embodiment of “i support women’s rights but most importantly i support women’s wrongs”
edit: ofc the other woman is wrong for being compliant in cheating (literally helping to emotionally abuse another woman) and feminism is definitely not about absolving a woman for how she hurts others.
The man and the mistress are BOTH at fault.
We don't have to vindicate the Other Woman in an attempt to de-villainise her. The Other Woman is a complex figure, and that's a good thing! It can be interesting to delve into exactly why she feels compelled to go after a married man. She could be used to reflect the patriarchal impulse to be "superior" to another woman by catering to a man's desires, she could be used to deconstruct the notion that women are automatically self-sacrificing romantics and (*gasp!*) can be selfish; in short, privileging her perspective is an opportunity to represent a real, flawed human being. But let's not make her into an angel... because no one is.
'Waitress' offers a good example of the Other Woman as a nuanced figure. Dr Pommater is in a relatively happy marriage (from the little we see of his wife there is nothing abusive about her), yet he cheats with the film/musical's protagonist, Jenna. Jenna is in an abusive relationship and has been stifled by her man-child husband and aborted ambitions - and the affair is a meaningful way of reclaiming her agency. But both the film and the musical show Jenna agonising over the affair and her acceptance that it is hurtful to Dr Pommater's wife even if it helped Jenna fight back against her abuser and get through an unplanned pregnancy.
And that's life - women are not manipulative one-dimensional femme fatales vying for a married man out of nothing but sadism, they are people who should not be villified even if they are not absolved.
I remember in the marketing for The Duchess, they made a point to mention that she was Diana’s direct ancestor. In retrospect, maybe a little too on-the-nose, but the parallels still stand.
No if the other woman knew he is married she is just in the wrong as the cheating spouse.
Sorry not sorry, in cheating both parties are at fault! The other women are just as disgusting as cheating husbands 🙄
The narrator sounds like she's been the other woman. There's no excuse and the reasons listed aren't an excuse at all. Other women who knowingly involve themselves with a taken guy deserve their karma.
Agreed. If she knows then she’s complicit; acknowledging that doesn’t let him off the hook. The only times she isn’t at all to blame are when she doesn’t know he’s married/dating and when he is forceful-in which case she isn’t the Other Woman, she’s a victim of his predations. These things cannot be conflated, and I don’t think that The Take took the time to differentiate them.
I am so disappointed that Robyn’s “Call Your Girlfriend” never came up. It’s explicitly about another woman telling her lover to call his girlfriend and explain how he met somebody new.
The take condoning such behaviour says a lot about the women who run this UA-cam channel. Very disappointed
Honestly the only question in real life we should be asking about an affair is did the other person who's not in the relationship know about the partner. If no they are just as much of a victim as the affair Partners partner. If yes then they are homewreckers. There is no reason to go after someone in a committed relationship or allow our relationship to form with someone who's in a relationship. Not you being lonely, sad, misunderstood or whatever excuse you tell yourself it's not okay. I understand that an affair there can be complicated power dynamics at play but it's simply boils down to if you knew they were in a relationship and you chose to have sex with them that's on you. If you are a consenting adult that has made the conscious choice to sleep with somebody else's partner you hold blame in that decision/ action. Now that being said the person in the relationship that chooses to cheat does carry more of the responsibility and guilt then the one who is not. As for the man being deeply unhappy well if you're deeply unhappy in your relationship you need to move on and leave. You being unhappy is does not give you a pass to cause trauma destroy someone else's life.
Edited to add the Sex In The City the original series Carrie was never sympathetic. In fact she came across as entitled and selfish for what she did to Biggs wife and Aiden.