Here's my own personal opinion on this: I own the RT-85 with the Ortofon Blue. $499.95. Now with the Nagaoka MP 110 available for ~`$70 less than the Blue cartridge, I can own both and switch them between various types of music and or listening mood for a variable, richer listening experience. If I had bought the RT-85N instead, it would have cost me more money to add the Blue cartridge to have both. I think the best sounding cartridge depends on several factors including the type of music, the way it was mixed or recorded, the volumes at which you listen and your actual mood at the time of listening. For me there is no ONE cartridge that is best. Having two distinct and varied cartridges is better than just one. And the least expensive way to achieve this with the Fluance is to buy the RT-85 with the Blue then buy a Nagaoka 110 cartridge which is easily switchable, later.
I've had my Fluance RT85 for a while now, and while I enjoy the sound of the Ortfon Blue, I recently picked up a Nagaoka MP 150. It's a little more comparable with the Ortofon price-wise. I got mine for a little over $300.00. It will be staying on the turntable for now. Very smooth, great bass and midrange. The treble is clear and my records just sound quieter. my upgrade path was a little more expensive, but to me it was worth it.
The 150 is in my opinion, the best "first upgrade" cart people can make if they're really serious about improving their sound. It tracks so well and has outstanding dynamics that I just couldn't pass it up.
I've just brought the 80 as I'm on a budget. I know you can pick the 82 and change it up to match the 85 but yeah money and all that. But still gonna be best Turntable I've owned. But great video and content many thanks
You indicate that the only difference between the RT85 and RT85N is the cartridge. However, I found on Fluance's web site in their resources section that in addition to the cartridge change, they adjusted the tonearm to account for the difference in the height and VTA of the Nagaoka MP-110. Here is what they say: "The tonearm is lower on the RT85N to accommodate for the height of the Nagaoka Cartridge and VTA which differ greatly from the 2M cartridges. While the MP-110 can be used on the standard RT85 the vertical tracking angle may not be optimal."
I definitely agree with your comments Chris, it’s obvious that Fluence was listening to the masses ( Members of the Fluence turntable group! ) and now gives us that choice between the two popular phono cartridges!
Chris, you are making me a Fluance fan. I have looked at them for a few years and thought they looked pretty well made. You have made several well thought out, comprehensive reviews of Fluance products. Thanks. The addition of a Nagaoka is an excellent one. I have a Nagaoka MP-150 (one step above the MP-110) and I love it. The bamboo plinth? Wow, looks nice.
Great vid as always, Chris. I really wish Fluance gave the option to buy this cartridge installed in one of their headshells (or any of their other offerings) ready to go for those of us existing customers. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
@@thevinylattack Fair enough. I know their headshells on their site are 20 - 30 bucks so if need be I'll just order a second, buy another cart and install it myself. I'm just absolutely awful at doing it.
Now after owning the RT 85N for a year now, I can give a fair review in comparison to my reason for switching over to the Ortofon 2M Blue. Firstly, the Nagaoka MP 110 cartridge is not built as well. Within only a couple months, the stylus started to bend and did not track properly, even though I set it up correctly. It was constantly distorting and for some strange reason attracted tons of dust and static. Eventually the needle completely broke off...so this was my opportunity to make the switch. As soon as I played my 1st record on the Ortofon, the difference was drastic. The Ortofon just has an over all livelier sound. It was very rich compared to the flat (aka warm) sound of the Nagaoka, so much so that I was able to eliminate one of my equalizers which was necessary in bringing out vocals. The Ortofon makes the vocals much more present with a very nice low end punch. It's more balanced over all. In retrospect, these are both excellent styli, the Nagaoka is ideal for the subdued lower fidelity listener, but if you enjoy rich and vibrant tones, not to mention a longer lasting and more durable item, spend the extra cash and get the Ortofon...if buying separately that is!
Love the pepsi challenge analogy, very relevant today when it is more challenging to audition hifi gear. Love these turntable reviews as I find my way to my next Turn Table! Great video as always Chris.
Hi I am running the m2 blue on my teac TN3B-AB and as you mentioned that cart is a bit bright but ime using a tube phono preamp, and my amp is a KT88 tube amp so with that setup it’s very palatable. Great vlog as to be expected from you, yours Ian
Funny on the colors! I like the Nagaoka, but it sounds as good to me as the ATVM 95 EN. THE AT allows more versatility (styli swaps). But the lively and detailed or detailed and less lively, more dimensional ( ?) are two great choices. Good move for Fluance. I'm in the 2m blue camp overall, but I do keep a VM95 EN handy for a more relaxed sound when needed.
I just ordered the RT85N, my first turntable in 35 years. I didn’t have the option of auditioning the Ortofon-equipped version, but I tend to favor a warmer, more relaxed sound over a brighter one. The Nagaoka appears to be perfect for me as a starting point. Thanks for your review!
I have the Nagaoka MP110 on my Technics SL-1500 and love the sound from that cartridge! I may upgrade to the MP150 down the road, but I'm super happy with the Nagaoka line of cartridges! Thanks for another great review, Chris!
Great video. I have an RT-85 and I do like the 2m blue but I use an Audio Technica vmn540ml. The Fluance tables are good and don't break the bank so one could upgrade cartridges.
@@mikegallagher2732 the entry-level Ortofon 2M cartridges are overrated (or overpriced, depending how you look at it), especially the 2M Red but also the 2M Blue. There are comparable cartridges from e.g. Audio Technica for half the price. But the higher-level 2M like Bronze and Black are actually really good.
I dont have a whole lot of experience with vinyl as I grew up in the 90s CD era, tho I did always enjoy it the opportunities and experience with vinyl I've had over the years. Personal favorites being "A Show of Hands" and "Delicate Sound of Thunder", but I really appreciate your insight and knowledge on thr subject. Keep up the great work dude! 👏👏
Agree completely about the Nagaoka. I have this cartridge as well as a 2M Red, and find the Ortofon overly bright, seemingly detailed on the high end but actually what I would describe as grainy, with much higher background/surface noise. I was tempted to upgrade the stylus from the Red to the Blue but don't really think it's worth the money when you can get another better cartridge for less than the stylus alone.
Thank you so much! your channel (and a few others) have been such a massive help learning about the vinyl world. I bought my First Album just a few days ago!!
Bought the RT85 in Bamboo with the Blue. The cheap old man in me took the leap due to the difference in cartridge cost. I also ended up with a p mount adapter and head shell to mount my Grado Prestige 3 Blue. Crossing my fingers the VTA doesn't become a problem with this setup. I loved this cartridge on my old Technics SL QD33 (35 years old). Unfortunately, it gave up the ghost a week after installing the cartridge. Grado does make a Head shell mounted Blue for about $160 on LP Gear.
I subscribed to your channel because GR Research is 'callin' out reviewers' and apparently he got some love for you, lol. Anyway, I'm taking the first steps on buying a turntable and enjoyed your review, tx!
I have the RT-85 which came with the Ortofon 2M Blue, which for me, is a very good cartridge, however, I installed a Sumiko Moonstone cartridge and I have to say THAT cartridge is better than the 2M Blue. Chris, I recommend that you give this particular cartridge a serious listen if possible. Great video!
@@jimshea7052 First of all it's a $500 table not a $250.00 Why would I give my head a shake if I'm happy with the result? The concept of music listening is entirely subjective. It's not your ears, it's my ears.
While you describe the differences between the nagaoka and the ortofon cartridge perfectly, I think it's worth mentioning that sometimes your personal over all setup and even a given album pressing you choose to play will have a big factor in which cart may sound better to your ears.
I bought the 110 a year or so ago and found that it made all of my records sound like AM radio. I use an EQ and love the sound I like. So the Blue was definitely my choice. Cheers
@@robertleeluben no. This was at home. Simply added in to my regular setup. I don’t care for the ‘balanced’ sound that most audiophiles like. Also, I live in Bakersfield, there hasn’t been a hi fi anywhere near here for years.
@@robertleeluben growing up, AM radio was always the complete opposite of dynamic. It was so balanced, it was boring and just background sounds to me. Granted my father didn’t have a decent stereo. But those what I remember. And the 110 just reminded me of it. Didn’t mean anything rude by it. If it helps, my father typically had country music on. Lol
I would recommend the Fluance RT-85 as a starter turntable except for the tone arm. It is very cheaply made. The lock caused a mark on the tone arm because of poor quality plastic they used. I upgraded to a Technic SL-1500C-K
I remember taking the Pepsi challenge in downtown Vancouver in the 80s … I totally recognized the taste of each and proudly stated I liked the Coke better. LOL This exact turntable is the one I wish for: the 85N :)
TVA - you are spot on re: the Nakaoka MP 110 cartridge. I am not a true Audiophiliac, but definitely a Music Afionado. I purchased a Audio-Technica LP120XBT-USB TT in 2020 which came with a standard 95E cartridge. I upgraded that cartridge to a VMN 95EN (in a Headshell) and noticed a sound enhancement "bump". But I also acquired a Nagaoka MP 110 Cartridge (also in a headshell) and just recently tried it. I use a Schiit Mani Phono Preamp, by passing my Denon DRA-800H built -in Phono Preamp in my system. I was WOWed in the sound difference of the NAGA ... I used Born in the USA LP (Springsteen) as the test LP . This review teased me in regard to my other Stereo system in my LR. A NAD 1300 Preamp, a NAD 2600 AMP, a Dual CS5000 TT (now with a Ortofon 20 cart.) connected to a pair of KEF 104/2s Tower speakers - since 1987. The Dual's RCA cables are its Achilles Heel. They are notorious for misbeaving - causing a poor connection to the Preamp and creating HUM - a Loud HUM. At first I thought it was the NAD preamp's Input connections. Brought it to a Stereo repair shop (who was very fair) where He found burnt diodes on the interior, replaced them all and tested it in his shop. But when I brought it home, in a very short while the HUM was there. After bringing it back to the shop, where he replaced a few more diodes (no extra charge) , letting it run for 48 hours in his shop connected to a TT in the shop, it declared as Good. However, after playing the TT for awhile, again the HUM returned. The TT is Grounded properly (that was the first thing i checked). Then playing with the RCA Cables from The Dual , it was apparent as I jiggled them, the Hum diminished. I got a RCA extension cord, connectd the Dual's cables to this, taped that tight together, then plugged the extension RCA cable into the NAD and the HUM was gone. FF to the other day, after not playing the stereo in the LR for a few months (the other system is in my Finished basement -Mancave in retirement ), put on a LP, and Bingo the HUM was back!!. After researching the Web about Dual CS5000 TTs - found that the cables are the weak link. Just ordered new RCA connectors which I will attempt to solder on and see if that is problem fixer. If not, back to the shop to install a new RCA cable _which flows direcly from the Tonearm requiring a complete disassembly of the TT. After reveiwing the Fluance RT85 N here and elsewhere, If I were to buy a new TT - I think this would be it!!
Audiophile simply means a person who is enthusiastic about hi-fi sound and its components. It has nothing to do with the gear you own, the money you have, the experiences you encountered, or any other particular parameters that need to be met. If you love music and you love gear (talking, using, buying, etc.) you're an Audiophile. It's not a bad word and I welcome you to the club.
@@thevinylattack I didn't mean for Audiophiliacism as a bad word...I do need to correct myself : I tested the Nakaoka MP 110 against the OEM AT cartridge VM 95E with the std stylus. I updgraded the stylus with 95EN (Orange colored). I ordered the VM95ML/H cartridge and Forgot (?) that I did not install it yet ! That's the next thing to do , to measure it against the Naga. BTW, In additon to the Schiit Mani Phono Preamp I use a Schiit LOKI Equalizer which Boosts the Dbs by 10 as well. Having said that, setting the LOKI to Off, the Naga sis still better than the OEM AT -95 E cartridge.
@@thevinylattack Follow up to the use of the MP110 Nagaoka cart. I tested it against the AT VM95ML/H in my system. The Naga wins for sure , more Umph and clarity of sound (or sound stage) than the AT.
Also, perhaps you can guide me... The Naga MP110 came with a new Head shell. I notice that when inserted into my AT LP120XBT-USB TT, looking directly from the front, the cartridge appears to slant to the right , not appearing level to the record's surface? Is there something wrong with the way it was mounted into the head shell from the factory? It plays fine. Tone arm is balanced, anti skating and weight at 1.9. The specs say 1.5 to
I have been sipping slurping and beer bong chugging the Orto since the day they offered the Bamboo model. Not a lifetime, but a lot of listening. One thing I can compare it to is the audio technica green cart that came stock on my previous turntable from Fluance. (82 I think) Let's face it, the reputation is built upon the build quality of their components. To the mass market community that purchases these items, there will be very little difference to the overall satisfactory rating of the machine. Very little if any negative impact on the sector performance and greater yield on the P&L sheet. I think it's a bold value driven move by Fluance to offer the new cart and keep the retail price point stable while choosing a less expensive cart that still delivers the goods for us average consumers.
At last! Someone outside Japan who actually bothered to find out how to pronounce Nagaoka ❤ I have the MP-110 on my Technics SL1200GR and love it so much more than any of my Ortofon's, for pretty much the reasons you mentioned, their trebly response can be quite shrill on sibilant female vocals. The Nagaoka just sounds so much more balanced (to my ears).
Did you have problems with your MP110 popping/crackling when you first started using it? I'm trying to be patient with their 20 hour 'break-in' time, but it's beginning to get on my nerves.
Thanks for the review! I definitely prefer a superbly balanced (neutral as possible) sound and yet with nicely detailed presentation, and so the Nagaoka would be my choice, and say, for the helluvit, I do prefer Coca-Cola!! 🥤😉👍
The 2m blue was my very first cart, I had it very poorly set up at first as I didn't know any better at the time. I have fond memories of certain records sounding distorted, it was a magical learning curve finally getting it all right. Ive not owed the Nagaoka MP110 but I've had the MP200 and currently running the MP500. I think the MP110, MP150 and MP200 share the same body so theres potentially a fairly easy upgrade path there.
Fantastic review. I’m really thinking of the 85N for the music I like (a lot of acoustic but also some hard rock). I have a Peachtree Nova 150 and Wharfedale Evo 4.2 speakers. The dark walnut Fluance would sound nice and look cool in my setup, too, I think.
New subscriber wanting to say hi! I enjoyed this video - as well as the 4 I watched before it. I should say that I became aware of your channel thanks to Danny at GR Research. Vinyl is - admittedly - a minor part of my hifi listening, so I'm very much interested in your amp and speaker reviews and look forward to more. Thank you and keep up the great work!
I have the RT85 with the Ortofon 2m blue and it sounds very good to my ear. I did have the Nagaoka mp110 on a previous turntable and was happy with it as well. When I upgraded to the RT85 turntable the overall package was way better than what I had before. If upgrade down the road it will probably be just the cartridge. Maybe a 2m bronze, or a higher end Nagaoka.
In my humble opinion, the RT-85 is good enough a turntable to warrant an even better cartridge like an Ortofon 2M Bronze or a comparable Nagaoka. Replacing an elliptical stylus with a Line-Contact type does so much for the sound quality it isn't even funny. You get rid of overly present sibilants, almost all innergroove distortion and you will get am extended frequency range. Also, Line-Contact stylii usually last much longer which normalizes their price difference.
Indeed... I installed a Hana MC cartridge and have never looked back, even though Fluance tech support says their TT's won't work with MC (which made no sense to me) !!!
@@ptg01 yeah, that's pretty stupid to say - if you have a turntable that feeds its signal to an external phono preamp that can properly amplify the low MC output, there is no reason to not use MC. If anything, MC cartridges will give you less trouble with frequency response and signal phase shifting when being compared to MM and their hassle with cable capacitance. There are cases where an exotic stylus' compliance won't match the tonearm's weight/inertia but these mismatches are really rare. Also, tonearms without adjustable VTA/height might not work to the fullest extent with some strangely-sized cartridges but there are workarounds as well.
@@ptg01 I’m thinking of doing the same for my RT 85. Can you tell me which Hana you purchased and the phono stage you use? Thanks for any help you can provide!
@@hemantishwaran5741 I have the HANA EL (low output MC). Phono stage is PSAudio Stellar Phono Pre-amp. I also recently acquired a Marantz Model 30 integrated and used it's internal phono stage which surprisingly is just as good as the PSAudio Stellar ! Sigh... Due to height differences of 2M Blue and HanaEL, I added a Fluance Cork Mat on top of the rubber mat due to lack of VTA adjustment. Not sure how this translates to RT85's acrylic mat as mine is an RT84. Hope this helps !
When I was growing up it was RC cola. Between Coke and Pepsi, it is more of a mood choice. Now that I have type 2 diabetes, I still do not have a favorite as far as zero sugar colas. Back to the review. I think you have sold me on this turntable. I like the idea of a more balanced sound. I do wonder about the less expensive cartridge on he turn table yet the price is the same. Oh well. Thank for another great review.
My first real cartridge was a Nagaoka MP110. I've gotten many cartridges since from $200-$800 budgets and the MP110 still has a place on my Hifi shelf. It has a mellow sound that works great with rock/metal music that isn't overly resolute and makes for a great "easy listening/relaxing" cartridge. Having to pay extra for the 2M Blue made me not recommend the higher end RT tables that much, but with the MP110 I could comfortably recommend shelling out the extra money to a friend just so they don't end up with a 2M Red they wont ever use again when they upgrade to something better. I would love to see a discounted RT84 maybe even down to $400 or $425 to make up some of the price difference to the 2M Blue, that would be a $500-$600 turntable killer for sure.
@@thevinylattack It is definitely great all around for sure, I've had mine for 6 years and it will probably be time for a new stylus soon due to the amount of hours I have on the current one, but it has held up well even when I was new to vinyl and had some mishaps cueing records. But the crazy thing to me about it is in certain cases it outshines cartridges 6 times the price which is why I still use it regularly.
I was hoping that they would have made some of the changes that you suggested in last year's review... a longer lift lever, a softer/slower rise of the arm (so that it is not so jarring and doesn't bounce), and I'm surprised that they didn't reduce the cost of the turntable considering the lower cost of the cartridge. I thoroughly appreciated the Pepsi challenge analogy, by the way, having lived through that era as well. Great review!
Have the RT85 built up from an RT83 and the addition of the Nagaoka MP-150 was a game changer. The Ortofon 2M Red paired with ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 speakers made my ears bleed haha. MP-150 and no turning back, well worth the squeeze!
Thanks, Chris! I am new to the "hifi" world and am very excited about getting my feet wet. I am trying to decide between the RT 85, RT 85N, and the Project Carbon EVO. I like the look of the Project but I keep hearing about the value and quality of sound of the 2M blue and the Nagaoka MP-110. I haven't heard much about the Sumiko Rainier but I read on one of your comments that you do like it. I like the auto stop feature on the fluance and the acrylic platter but am starting to think that the auto stop isn't really a deal maker for me but the acrylic platter vs the steel platter does make me ponder...I am a fan of your reviews and have found myself to trust your word although I know you say it more so depends on my preference in sound at the end of the day, I just wanted to get your opinion on these concerns if you choose to give it. I wouldl like to mention that I have 2 wharfdale evo 4.1 speakers and the kef kc62 subwoofer and the yamaha tsr-700 receiver as my current system. Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks again Chris! :)
If you like the MP110, you'll really dig the MP200. I have that cartridge on my SL1200 MKII and it sounds awesome. It has a boron cantilever instead of aluminum.
What a great perspective on the 2M Blue. Completely agree with the too bright/too sugary analogy but I also understand why some people love it and that it’s just not my thing. In fact, have you heard the OM 10 or 20? You get the same great Ortofon quality but with a slightly more subdued “Coke” sound that some people, like me, prefer. Keep on keeping one , Chris - you’re the one of the most reliable sources on UA-cam for audio reviews and advice. P.S. I’m down to ordering the Fluance RT84 (I can get my own cartridge upgrade later) OR the Pro-Ject Debut Evo Carbon. I could use a quick gut check - feature differences aside, which one of these two do you think actually sounds better? Anyone?
@@thevinylattack - well, I did end up choosing the RT85, which, as you know, comes stock with the 2M Blue. Any interesting cartridge pairing recommends you may have would be much appreciated. Cheers 🍻
They should release it with a VM540ML. Similar price and out performs both of them. I personally think that their margins are being squeezed, so went with a cheaper, but still great performer. I have had a red and blue, which were ok, but way behind the 540ML, especially on older records. My 2 cents worth. The table itself is superb value for money with either cart.
But the VM540ML is around £210 here in the UK, so I could buy the RT82 and swap the Ortofon OM10 for the VM540ML but that would take me to the same price as the 85N, then I'd have to buy the acrylic platter, which would be another £100 or so ! Is the VM540ML that much better ? that's the burning question ?
The ortfon blue has a much better signal to noise ratio than the nagaoka mo150. It may be much more of an issue, depending on your preamp and Poweramp setup.
Excellent post mate! I sure didn't know about Fluance offering a different cartridge. I've read quite a bit about both, at least I THINK this is the Nagaoka I've read about, I can't say absolutely for sure. Opinions are quite divided as you can imagine, probably for the very reason you mention. So, if you don't mind if I ask you, how is the overall presentation of your system? Because, say, if it is on the forward side, say with maybe Klipsch horns, etc., perhaps adding in the Ortofon would make it too bright. But, if it is already somewhat 'laid-back', then that would more strongly suggest the brightness of the Ortofon. My system is probably overall on the more laid-back side. It is comprised of two tall line-arrays with 13 open baffle dipole drivers a side. It is tri-amped with dual-mono amps running the two line arrays, with a Crown 2502 400/side running the 2-15" open baffle woofers. So, there is a HUGE soundstage and image, which is the way it was designed, but only having one ribbon tweeter a side, I would say that overall it is likely more laid-back. I don't know if you allow people to post links, but if you do, I will try in a reply to this post to leave a link to pictures of my system, if that is okay with you. Thanks kindly again for the awesome update! 👍
My system is fairly neutral, but even on warmer systems I'm just not a fan of the Ortofon. Many people like it, and their not wrong, it's just individual taste.
I started a few years ago with the AT LP60 and did an inexpensive cartridge upgrade off of Amazon Audio-Technica ATN3600L and really noticed a difference for $25. I am now using the RT-85 with the 2M Blue.
That's a tough one. The cartridge will make a huge difference, so unless you're planning on getting a much higher end table, I'd start with the cart. You can always take it over to a new table later on.
I had the issue and decided to jump to the Fluance RT85. Such a great value with the included 2m Blue cart. If you can swing it even going to the RT 84 may be a worthwhile upgrade for you.
Great video, Chris. I'm very much new to records and turntables. Picked up a few new pressings of some Pink Floyd and I've yet to purchase a turntable. From what I understand, this is something that definitely should not be skimped out on. I would love to get something that's not just going to make my wallet lighter, but be more than a great beginner turntable and instead be one I can cherish for many years and records to come. Would you recommend this RT85N as a "forever" turntable or is there another product you would prefer? I'm all ears!
Great video and spot on for my taste as well with the MP-110 over the 2M Blue. I however have never owned an external preamp and have only used the built in one in my Yamaha receiver (currently the RX-A3070). It’s ok but I would like to try an external preamp for comparison. I was looking around $100 and was interested in the Douk Audio T4 with the hybrid tube setup for the warmer sound. Would this be too warm with the MP-110 cartridge? If so, what preamp would you suggest matching with the MP-110?
Thanks for the info. Your videos are always helpful. Have you done any videos comparing Ortofon cartridge upgrades? I’m thinking about jumping from the red and blue up to the bronze or black. There is quite a dramatic price difference as you upgrade. Just wondered what your opinion is regarding the sound quality and whether it’s worth the extra money.
The Vinyl Attack in one of your videos you said in the 5 hundred dollar price range as far as speakers go you suggested Q, Triangle and Elac. Can u elaborate on which one? I'm in the market for some towers. Thanks
I’m new to your channel and I’ve learned so much! Never had the money to put together a great system until now and you and many other reviewers have sold me on the Fluance Rt85N. The only problem is, with all the supply chain problems going on, their website states it will be June before they crank out some more. Bummer! The RT85N is my choice but if I get the RT85 and swap out the cart it will cost me another $140 or so plus the preamp. If I go with the Schiit Mani it is $129 (plus a 4-6 weeks until they get their supply problems ironed out) or the iFi Zen for $200. Should I wait till I can get the RT85N or buy the RT85 and swap out for a Nagaoka M110 cart? Either way I’m down for over $700 which is at the top of my budget? Am I being too impatient here or should I step back and wait? I defer to those who have more expertise in the musical tech field. The turntable I buy will probably be my last one (can always upgrade the cart later when it wears out. Thanks for your help in advance.
Personally, I'd wait. As hard as that can be sometimes, there's just no point in buying your second choice only to make an upgrade in just a couple of months. For the phono pre, both are a great choice but I do prefer the iFi.
I would prefer one without headshell, because the most likley I would ended up with one of audiotechnica microline cartridges. In that case I am not sure if it is worth to go above RT82
Wow! You looked so young in your original RT85 review. Where does the time go? 😂 I did read some reviews and watched some video comparisons of these two carts. If the Naga was available when I purchased the RT 85 I would have went with that. I'm happy with the 2M Blue for now and it's great with my advanced beginner set up.
I haven't heard the ML version, but I have been spending time with the VM95 E lately. It's a solid cart, so I'd imagine the ML would be as well. I can't say for certain, though.
Isn't the cartridge directly effected by the arm used? Curious just how much of a difference in sound a person whose looking at this price point is really going to hear between say the RT82 and the RT85/N when they all share the same arm.
The Evo has a better tonearm for sure, but it's also $100 more now after the price went up. Personally I'd either buy the Fluance at $500 or save my money to step up to something around the $1,000 range. $600 for the Evo is a bit too much for me.
I happen to have a review for just such a thing on the horizon. I just got the table last week so bear with me while I put it through its paces over the next couple of weeks.
We agree w/you Chris. It’s been our experience that the MP110 sounds better. The Ortofon,either red or blue, isn’t as fulll.🎧 P.S. Thsnk you for the tip on Skill Share 📖
Am really hoping fluance comes out with a high quality direct drive turntable semi automatic or fully automatic would be awesome I think it could really expand their customer base there is not nearly enough new direct drive tables out there with the exception of the standard fare Particularly a direct drive for the audiophile market If fluance did this I would make the purchase in a hot minute
Direct drive motors are more expensive and difficult to repair, which is why most budget 'tables use belt drive. Andrew Robinson was hard-pressed to hear a difference between his $1100 direct-drive Dual CS 618Q and the Fluance RT-85 when both had 2M Blue's on their tonearms.
@@1mctous I was not thinking about a budget turntable I was thinking it could be a good way for fluance to enter into the higher end market I personally prefer direct drive turntables and as far as maintenance being more expensive my technics sl-1700 mk1 from 1978 is a solid performer that has given me zero issues since I bought it used some 20 years ago I have had to replace many belts over the years with my belt drive tables but that old faithful sl1700 keeps on truckin I wouldn't mind forking out the extra cash for a modern dd turntable that has modern options and retro 70s turntable aesthetic
@@thevinylattack unfortunate because i really like fluance retro inspired designs and think that with some good old fashioned r&d they could offer a solid performing direct drive turntable and market it as a direct drive for audiophiles instead of djs
If only it was direct drive. I like the idea of my first turntable being as little hassle as possible. Belts just seem "fiddly" and unnecessary to me. I am still looking at the RT85 as an option but I've also recently heard about the Dual CS 618Q, which is direct drive and has auto stop/lift and also comes with the Ortofon 2M Blue. Albeit, these added features for a little more money. Worth it in my opinion. I wonder if you could get your hands on one to compare? Also I can't see it being difficult to swap out the 2M Blue for a MP 110 on the Dual, if it's better.
I see your point, but in a world that has turntables go up to a ridiculous $200k, to my mind this is unfortunately still entry level. It's disappointing what companies & retailers think they can charge for what should be basic features these days.
great upload brother! i had one question about bight the 85 and 85n i spoke with a representative at Fluence and they claim that the tone arm was different on the RT85N that the tonearm was set higher for the build of the needle is this true? or was the rep ill-informed?
@@thevinylattack i agree completely. i haven’t heard anything about the tonearm being different, i read up on the units and reviews from multiple platforms and hadn’t heard a thing about a redesigned tonearm. *though it would be great if they eventually upgraded to one that is adjustable .. aside from all of that I’m interested in purchasing the unit just undecided between the ortofon and the nagaoka .. i’m a nightclub and radio dj and have been working on technics since i began with that said my go to performance needle were always ortofon. i’ve predominantly used both the ortofon “dj”” and the “nightclub” so i am very familiar on the clarity of these needles i haven’t had the pleasure of sampling the 2m blue .. so being i am purchasing the unit would it in your opinion be a smarter to initially go for the nagaoka? i haven’t personally worked with or heard much about the company before. clearly there’s a big difference between performing at a club and enjoying a record within the comfort of your home .. you were so very informative *and always are* in your uploads I’m still stuck between the 2. should i just get both? lol
Well only one small nitty picky complaint. You hit on the main difference Coke, or Pepsi, and should have left it at that. 2M blue is too sweet for you, but not everyone likes less sweetness. It would be better to say. Leave it to preference. Not everyone likes Coke over Pepsi, nor vice versa. But every cola drinker will pick one, or the other, depending on long listening sessions. I personally have my Rt85 with the blue, and never found it Pepsi sweet. It always leaves a great taste to my senses, sip, after sip. And that should have been stressed a bit more than skimming over that point.
@@thevinylattack well I guess your ears aren't as good as I've given you credit for. lol If I were going to upgrade, I'd go to the Ortofon bronze. Your show though! And to be fair, I'd have to listen to the Nagaoka MP-110 to make any personal opinions. We all have different tastes. That's why we have 400,000 cartridges, and styli.
@@thevinylattack Here's my 1 cent. The Nagaoka MP-110 is is some cases up to a hundred dollars less expensive. Who serves to gain from offering this wonderful turntable with this price advantage for Fluance? Each player they sell with the Nagaoka is more money in the sellers pockets. Just the looks of the two side by side, shows quite a contrast in build, of course without seeing the Nagaoka being built, which I have in the Ortofon manufacturers factory. Now of course, up to this point, you are correct. My point is only my own up to here, without hearing the Nagaoka MP-110 yet I have heard a little from some of their line, on different turntables. I found the product a bit different in listening quality. Not to, as you say, my liking, or taste. Now I have owned hundreds, of pieces of audiophile quality gear for some 40+ years. I also know not all are going to like even either choice. But just until I lend my ears to participating in a non closed challenge, I am not convinced this new possible gem is not a short lived sweetness to yo, and others. I've followed you for a bit, and do not wish to Troll your personal observations. You've done quite well in my opinion, and speak quite eloquently, and are quite intelligent in my opinion. But from one audiophiles ear to another's, it stands to reason, we will agree to disagree in many areas. Hence 400,000 manufacturers, all claiming kingship for their customers ears.
@@danootto6382 It's never a problem to disagree, but if you haven't spent time with the Nagaoka you're making an uninformed statement. Cost be damned. If you like the Ortofon, that's great. It's not a bad cart at all, it's just too bright for me. It's also too bright for many other people I know. It doesn't mean someone is wrong or right, but I'm speaking from a place of having experienced both. That's the opinion I'm going to give.
It's a tough call. The Evo has a better tonearm, but it's also $100 more these days and I don't see the value as much as I used to. I'd say it comes down to the features you like more.
@@thevinylattack Seems like the Fluance is the value leader. Especially with that auto stop definitely a nice feature. Lately been trying to support companies that are manufacturing outside of China. Tough decision. Thanks for the response. Keep up the great videos.
I just recently got my RT85N and it is popping/crackling constantly. Their support says that the cartridge needs 20 hours of 'break-in' playing time. I have never heard of this with any turntable before and my previous table, a Pro-ject Carbon Debut, didn't have this issue. And yes, I've used an anti-static brush on the vinyl, etc. I'm going to give it the full 20+ hours of break in time, but was wondering if anyone else has had this experience?
Here's my own personal opinion on this: I own the RT-85 with the Ortofon Blue. $499.95. Now with the Nagaoka MP 110 available for ~`$70 less than the Blue cartridge, I can own both and switch them between various types of music and or listening mood for a variable, richer listening experience. If I had bought the RT-85N instead, it would have cost me more money to add the Blue cartridge to have both. I think the best sounding cartridge depends on several factors including the type of music, the way it was mixed or recorded, the volumes at which you listen and your actual mood at the time of listening. For me there is no ONE cartridge that is best. Having two distinct and varied cartridges is better than just one. And the least expensive way to achieve this with the Fluance is to buy the RT-85 with the Blue then buy a Nagaoka 110 cartridge which is easily switchable, later.
I've had my Fluance RT85 for a while now, and while I enjoy the sound of the Ortfon Blue, I recently picked up a Nagaoka MP 150. It's a little more comparable with the Ortofon price-wise. I got mine for a little over $300.00. It will be staying on the turntable for now. Very smooth, great bass and midrange. The treble is clear and my records just sound quieter. my upgrade path was a little more expensive, but to me it was worth it.
The 150 is in my opinion, the best "first upgrade" cart people can make if they're really serious about improving their sound. It tracks so well and has outstanding dynamics that I just couldn't pass it up.
I was looking at the MP 150 FOR MY REGA P3 WHICH I'VE UPGRADED the motor and power supply so just press the button for 45rpm now much easier
@@reinventing59
Hi did you upgrade to the MP 150 . If so was it an easy/ worthwhile replacement.
Solid vid, worth the watch. Love the removable headshell. That’s a feature that’s really coming up in my priority list.
Glad it was helpful.
I've just brought the 80 as I'm on a budget. I know you can pick the 82 and change it up to match the 85 but yeah money and all that. But still gonna be best Turntable I've owned. But great video and content many thanks
You indicate that the only difference between the RT85 and RT85N is the cartridge. However, I found on Fluance's web site in their resources section that in addition to the cartridge change, they adjusted the tonearm to account for the difference in the height and VTA of the Nagaoka MP-110. Here is what they say:
"The tonearm is lower on the RT85N to accommodate for the height of the Nagaoka Cartridge and VTA which differ greatly from the 2M cartridges. While the MP-110 can be used on the standard RT85 the vertical tracking angle may not be optimal."
That information was added after I did the review, and I can't speak to its accuracy.
I definitely agree with your comments Chris, it’s obvious that Fluence was listening to the masses ( Members of the Fluence turntable group! ) and now gives us that choice between the two popular phono cartridges!
I think it's a really good move on their part.
Chris, you are making me a Fluance fan. I have looked at them for a few years and thought they looked pretty well made. You have made several well thought out, comprehensive reviews of Fluance products. Thanks. The addition of a Nagaoka is an excellent one. I have a Nagaoka MP-150 (one step above the MP-110) and I love it. The bamboo plinth? Wow, looks nice.
After using and reviewing several, I've become a fan. Their tough to beat at this price.
Great vid as always, Chris. I really wish Fluance gave the option to buy this cartridge installed in one of their headshells (or any of their other offerings) ready to go for those of us existing customers. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
I don't think they could justify the cost of doing cart setup in head shells and offering them for sale.
@@thevinylattack Fair enough. I know their headshells on their site are 20 - 30 bucks so if need be I'll just order a second, buy another cart and install it myself. I'm just absolutely awful at doing it.
@@Chaybee12 A little practice and you'll do just fine.
Excellent review and analogy! I may actually be leaning toward the RT 85N now, it's been a tough decision!
Now after owning the RT 85N for a year now, I can give a fair review in comparison to my reason for switching over to the Ortofon 2M Blue. Firstly, the Nagaoka MP 110 cartridge is not built as well. Within only a couple months, the stylus started to bend and did not track properly, even though I set it up correctly. It was constantly distorting and for some strange reason attracted tons of dust and static. Eventually the needle completely broke off...so this was my opportunity to make the switch. As soon as I played my 1st record on the Ortofon, the difference was drastic. The Ortofon just has an over all livelier sound. It was very rich compared to the flat (aka warm) sound of the Nagaoka, so much so that I was able to eliminate one of my equalizers which was necessary in bringing out vocals. The Ortofon makes the vocals much more present with a very nice low end punch. It's more balanced over all. In retrospect, these are both excellent styli, the Nagaoka is ideal for the subdued lower fidelity listener, but if you enjoy rich and vibrant tones, not to mention a longer lasting and more durable item, spend the extra cash and get the Ortofon...if buying separately that is!
Love my RT-85!
Love the pepsi challenge analogy, very relevant today when it is more challenging to audition hifi gear. Love these turntable reviews as I find my way to my next Turn Table! Great video as always Chris.
I appreciate the kind words.
Hi I am running the m2 blue on my teac TN3B-AB and as you mentioned that cart is a bit bright but ime using a tube phono preamp, and my amp is a KT88 tube amp so with that setup it’s very palatable. Great vlog as to be expected from you, yours Ian
I'm glad it's working out for you.
Funny on the colors!
I like the Nagaoka, but it sounds as good to me as the ATVM 95 EN. THE AT allows more versatility (styli swaps).
But the lively and detailed or detailed and less lively, more dimensional ( ?) are two great choices. Good move for Fluance. I'm in the 2m blue camp overall, but I do keep a VM95 EN handy for a more relaxed sound when needed.
I just ordered the RT85N, my first turntable in 35 years. I didn’t have the option of auditioning the Ortofon-equipped version, but I tend to favor a warmer, more relaxed sound over a brighter one. The Nagaoka appears to be perfect for me as a starting point. Thanks for your review!
I'm certain you'll be more than happy with the Nagaoka.
I have the Nagaoka MP110 on my Technics SL-1500 and love the sound from that cartridge! I may upgrade to the MP150 down the road, but I'm super happy with the Nagaoka line of cartridges! Thanks for another great review, Chris!
Thanks for taking the time to watch.
I'll be damned, I learned something interesting (Pepsi Challenge) in addition to the review I came here for. Thanks!
Great video. I have an RT-85 and I do like the 2m blue but I use an Audio Technica vmn540ml. The Fluance tables are good and don't break the bank so one could upgrade cartridges.
Definitely.
Yes, they are really decent enough to warrant a high quality cartridge.
I have the A.T. Vmn 740ml on mine and its Blows the Ortofon Blue away .. SORRY, I'm just NOT an ORTOFON fan... OVERRATED.
@@mikegallagher2732 the entry-level Ortofon 2M cartridges are overrated (or overpriced, depending how you look at it), especially the 2M Red but also the 2M Blue. There are comparable cartridges from e.g. Audio Technica for half the price.
But the higher-level 2M like Bronze and Black are actually really good.
I am using the same cartridge and the combination yields fantastic sound on my 80s Kenwood M2 & C2.
Digging my Teac table with AT-VM95EN at the moment.
I dont have a whole lot of experience with vinyl as I grew up in the 90s CD era, tho I did always enjoy it the opportunities and experience with vinyl I've had over the years. Personal favorites being "A Show of Hands" and "Delicate Sound of Thunder", but I really appreciate your insight and knowledge on thr subject. Keep up the great work dude! 👏👏
I appreciate the support.
Agree completely about the Nagaoka. I have this cartridge as well as a 2M Red, and find the Ortofon overly bright, seemingly detailed on the high end but actually what I would describe as grainy, with much higher background/surface noise. I was tempted to upgrade the stylus from the Red to the Blue but don't really think it's worth the money when you can get another better cartridge for less than the stylus alone.
I'm with you. I'd personally just switch to a whole new cart for that kind of money.
Thank you so much! your channel (and a few others) have been such a massive help learning about the vinyl world. I bought my First Album just a few days ago!!
Great to hear!
Took my 83 and added an acrylic platter along with Ortofon Bronze....now I've got a 85+
Indeed!
I finally purchased the rt85 with 2m blue. Very happy with it!!
I'm glad to hear it.
I love how you’re wearing Frank’s Channel 33 rpm shirt
He's a good dude.
Got nothing to say...you covered all the questions! Great vid
I'm glad you liked it.
OMG the cartridges are in the "Pepsi Colors" so good dude:) Loved your style and review, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed!
Bought the RT85 in Bamboo with the Blue. The cheap old man in me took the leap due to the difference in cartridge cost. I also ended up with a p mount adapter and head shell to mount my Grado Prestige 3 Blue. Crossing my fingers the VTA doesn't become a problem with this setup. I loved this cartridge on my old Technics SL QD33 (35 years old). Unfortunately, it gave up the ghost a week after installing the cartridge.
Grado does make a Head shell mounted Blue for about $160 on LP Gear.
I don't think you'll have any trouble.
Another great video. Gave some great info on this cartridge I didn't know much about
Glad I could help.
Just loved this video. Got me thinking to try both of them cartridges before making a final decision. Thanks Chris.
Glad to help.
I subscribed to your channel because GR Research is 'callin' out reviewers' and apparently he got some love for you, lol.
Anyway, I'm taking the first steps on buying a turntable and enjoyed your review, tx!
Welcome aboard!
I have the RT-85 which came with the Ortofon 2M Blue, which for me, is a very good cartridge, however, I installed a Sumiko Moonstone cartridge and I have to say THAT cartridge is better than the 2M Blue. Chris, I recommend that you give this particular cartridge a serious listen if possible. Great video!
I'll add it to my list.
A moonstone on a 250 dollar table. Give your head a shake
@@jimshea7052
First of all it's a $500 table not a $250.00
Why would I give my head a shake if I'm happy with the result? The concept of music listening is entirely subjective.
It's not your ears, it's my ears.
While you describe the differences between the nagaoka and the ortofon cartridge perfectly, I think it's worth mentioning that sometimes your personal over all setup and even a given album pressing you choose to play will have a big factor in which cart may sound better to your ears.
I would agree. I did mention though, that the Nagaoka is a more forgiving cartridge when it comes to the various qualities of records being played.
I bought the 110 a year or so ago and found that it made all of my records sound like AM radio. I use an EQ and love the sound I like. So the Blue was definitely my choice. Cheers
Was this at a hifi store? I think you've been bamboozled if the 110 sounded like AM radio, to get you to buy the more expensive cart.
@@robertleeluben no. This was at home. Simply added in to my regular setup. I don’t care for the ‘balanced’ sound that most audiophiles like. Also, I live in Bakersfield, there hasn’t been a hi fi anywhere near here for years.
@@robertleeluben oh, and I bought the RT85 two years ago as it came with the blue 2m. I’ve just tried a handful of other carts on my own.
@@tharveytucker1 I don't care preference is preference but 'sounds like AM radio' could give people the wrong impression.
@@robertleeluben growing up, AM radio was always the complete opposite of dynamic. It was so balanced, it was boring and just background sounds to me. Granted my father didn’t have a decent stereo. But those what I remember. And the 110 just reminded me of it. Didn’t mean anything rude by it. If it helps, my father typically had country music on. Lol
I would recommend the Fluance RT-85 as a starter turntable except for the tone arm. It is very cheaply made. The lock caused a mark on the tone arm because of poor quality plastic they used. I upgraded to a Technic SL-1500C-K
Hi Chris great video as the Rt85 is on my short list for my next turntable also I'm digging your channel 33 T-shirt.
It's a fine table.
Thanks. That helps.
Great Pepsi analogy
Thanks.
Seu ponto de vista é fantástico, acertou em tudo 100% espero adquirir em breve esse F85 Nagaoka, parabéns pelo vídeo Tks friend
I remember taking the Pepsi challenge in downtown Vancouver in the 80s … I totally recognized the taste of each and proudly stated I liked the Coke better. LOL
This exact turntable is the one I wish for: the 85N :)
It's a winner.
Another great review ,keep on rocking Chris😎
Thanks :-)
TVA - you are spot on re: the Nakaoka MP 110 cartridge. I am not a true Audiophiliac, but definitely a Music Afionado. I purchased a Audio-Technica LP120XBT-USB TT in 2020 which came with a standard 95E cartridge. I upgraded that cartridge to a VMN 95EN (in a Headshell) and noticed a sound enhancement "bump". But I also acquired a Nagaoka MP 110 Cartridge (also in a headshell) and just recently tried it. I use a Schiit Mani Phono Preamp, by passing my Denon DRA-800H built -in Phono Preamp in my system. I was WOWed in the sound difference of the NAGA ... I used Born in the USA LP (Springsteen) as the test LP .
This review teased me in regard to my other Stereo system in my LR. A NAD 1300 Preamp, a NAD 2600 AMP, a Dual CS5000 TT (now with a Ortofon 20 cart.) connected to a pair of KEF 104/2s Tower speakers - since 1987. The Dual's RCA cables are its Achilles Heel. They are notorious for misbeaving - causing a poor connection to the Preamp and creating HUM - a Loud HUM. At first I thought it was the NAD preamp's Input connections. Brought it to a Stereo repair shop (who was very fair) where He found burnt diodes on the interior, replaced them all and tested it in his shop. But when I brought it home, in a very short while the HUM was there. After bringing it back to the shop, where he replaced a few more diodes (no extra charge) , letting it run for 48 hours in his shop connected to a TT in the shop, it declared as Good. However, after playing the TT for awhile, again the HUM returned. The TT is Grounded properly (that was the first thing i checked). Then playing with the RCA Cables from The Dual , it was apparent as I jiggled them, the Hum diminished. I got a RCA extension cord, connectd the Dual's cables to this, taped that tight together, then plugged the extension RCA cable into the NAD and the HUM was gone. FF to the other day, after not playing the stereo in the LR for a few months (the other system is in my Finished basement -Mancave in retirement ), put on a LP, and Bingo the HUM was back!!. After researching the Web about Dual CS5000 TTs - found that the cables are the weak link. Just ordered new RCA connectors which I will attempt to solder on and see if that is problem fixer. If not, back to the shop to install a new RCA cable _which flows direcly from the Tonearm requiring a complete disassembly of the TT.
After reveiwing the Fluance RT85 N here and elsewhere, If I were to buy a new TT - I think this would be it!!
Audiophile simply means a person who is enthusiastic about hi-fi sound and its components. It has nothing to do with the gear you own, the money you have, the experiences you encountered, or any other particular parameters that need to be met. If you love music and you love gear (talking, using, buying, etc.) you're an Audiophile. It's not a bad word and I welcome you to the club.
@@thevinylattack I didn't mean for Audiophiliacism as a bad word...I do need to correct myself : I tested the Nakaoka MP 110 against the OEM AT cartridge VM 95E with the std stylus. I updgraded the stylus with 95EN (Orange colored). I ordered the VM95ML/H cartridge and Forgot (?) that I did not install it yet ! That's the next thing to do , to measure it against the Naga. BTW, In additon to the Schiit Mani Phono Preamp I use a Schiit LOKI Equalizer which Boosts the Dbs by 10 as well. Having said that, setting the LOKI to Off, the Naga sis still better than the OEM AT -95 E cartridge.
@@Chiroman527 That doesn't surprise me much. The Nagaoka is a very strong performer for the money.
@@thevinylattack Follow up to the use of the MP110 Nagaoka cart. I tested it against the AT VM95ML/H in my system. The Naga wins for sure , more Umph and clarity of sound (or sound stage) than the AT.
Also, perhaps you can guide me... The Naga MP110 came with a new Head shell. I notice that when inserted into my AT LP120XBT-USB TT, looking directly from the front, the cartridge appears to slant to the right , not appearing level to the record's surface? Is there something wrong with the way it was mounted into the head shell from the factory? It plays fine. Tone arm is balanced, anti skating and weight at 1.9. The specs say 1.5 to
I have been sipping slurping and beer bong chugging the Orto since the day they offered the Bamboo model. Not a lifetime, but a lot of listening. One thing I can compare it to is the audio technica green cart that came stock on my previous turntable from Fluance. (82 I think)
Let's face it, the reputation is built upon the build quality of their components. To the mass market community that purchases these items, there will be very little difference to the overall satisfactory rating of the machine. Very little if any negative impact on the sector performance and greater yield on the P&L sheet. I think it's a bold value driven move by Fluance to offer the new cart and keep the retail price point stable while choosing a less expensive cart that still delivers the goods for us average consumers.
And one that will cost you much less to run. I can find MP-110 replacement styli around $60 while 2M Blue's run over $200.
@@1mctous I will still choose the Orto Blue. It has worked its way into my inner ear whether it be Maxim Vengerov or Molly Hatchet. 👍🏼
Really appreciated the Pepsi analogy! What phono preamp(s) and powered speakers would you recommend in concert with the Fluance RT85?
At last! Someone outside Japan who actually bothered to find out how to pronounce Nagaoka ❤ I have the MP-110 on my Technics SL1200GR and love it so much more than any of my Ortofon's, for pretty much the reasons you mentioned, their trebly response can be quite shrill on sibilant female vocals. The Nagaoka just sounds so much more balanced (to my ears).
That's a solid setup.
Did you have problems with your MP110 popping/crackling when you first started using it? I'm trying to be patient with their 20 hour 'break-in' time, but it's beginning to get on my nerves.
Thanks for the review! I definitely prefer a superbly balanced (neutral as possible) sound and yet with nicely detailed presentation, and so the Nagaoka would be my choice, and say, for the helluvit, I do prefer Coca-Cola!! 🥤😉👍
Excellent video, as always.
I appreciate you saying so.
The 2m blue was my very first cart, I had it very poorly set up at first as I didn't know any better at the time. I have fond memories of certain records sounding distorted, it was a magical learning curve finally getting it all right.
Ive not owed the Nagaoka MP110 but I've had the MP200 and currently running the MP500. I think the MP110, MP150 and MP200 share the same body so theres potentially a fairly easy upgrade path there.
I've like all the carts I've heard from them.
Love the Nag carts. Started out with the MP110 and now I use the MP500. Well worth the money.
I'm a fan myself.
Fantastic review. I’m really thinking of the 85N for the music I like (a lot of acoustic but also some hard rock). I have a Peachtree Nova 150 and Wharfedale Evo 4.2 speakers. The dark walnut Fluance would sound nice and look cool in my setup, too, I think.
It's a strong performer for the money.
New subscriber wanting to say hi! I enjoyed this video - as well as the 4 I watched before it. I should say that I became aware of your channel thanks to Danny at GR Research. Vinyl is - admittedly - a minor part of my hifi listening, so I'm very much interested in your amp and speaker reviews and look forward to more. Thank you and keep up the great work!
Welcome aboard!
I have the RT85 with the Ortofon 2m blue and it sounds very good to my ear. I did have the Nagaoka mp110 on a previous turntable and was happy with it as well. When I upgraded to the RT85 turntable the overall package was way better than what I had before. If upgrade down the road it will probably be just the cartridge. Maybe a 2m bronze, or a higher end Nagaoka.
It's one of the best selling carts for a reason.
terrific review
In my humble opinion, the RT-85 is good enough a turntable to warrant an even better cartridge like an Ortofon 2M Bronze or a comparable Nagaoka. Replacing an elliptical stylus with a Line-Contact type does so much for the sound quality it isn't even funny. You get rid of overly present sibilants, almost all innergroove distortion and you will get am extended frequency range. Also, Line-Contact stylii usually last much longer which normalizes their price difference.
I wouldn't see why not.
Indeed... I installed a Hana MC cartridge and have never looked back, even though Fluance tech support says their TT's won't work with MC (which made no sense to me) !!!
@@ptg01 yeah, that's pretty stupid to say - if you have a turntable that feeds its signal to an external phono preamp that can properly amplify the low MC output, there is no reason to not use MC. If anything, MC cartridges will give you less trouble with frequency response and signal phase shifting when being compared to MM and their hassle with cable capacitance.
There are cases where an exotic stylus' compliance won't match the tonearm's weight/inertia but these mismatches are really rare. Also, tonearms without adjustable VTA/height might not work to the fullest extent with some strangely-sized cartridges but there are workarounds as well.
@@ptg01 I’m thinking of doing the same for my RT 85. Can you tell me which Hana you purchased and the phono stage you use? Thanks for any help you can provide!
@@hemantishwaran5741 I have the HANA EL (low output MC). Phono stage is PSAudio Stellar Phono Pre-amp. I also recently acquired a Marantz Model 30 integrated and used it's internal phono stage which surprisingly is just as good as the PSAudio Stellar ! Sigh... Due to height differences of 2M Blue and HanaEL, I added a Fluance Cork Mat on top of the rubber mat due to lack of VTA adjustment. Not sure how this translates to RT85's acrylic mat as mine is an RT84. Hope this helps !
When I was growing up it was RC cola. Between Coke and Pepsi, it is more of a mood choice. Now that I have type 2 diabetes, I still do not have a favorite as far as zero sugar colas. Back to the review. I think you have sold me on this turntable. I like the idea of a more balanced sound. I do wonder about the less expensive cartridge on he turn table yet the price is the same. Oh well. Thank for another great review.
It's a solid buy no matter which cart you choose, that's for sure.
Great video. Nice shirt!
Thanks!
My first real cartridge was a Nagaoka MP110. I've gotten many cartridges since from $200-$800 budgets and the MP110 still has a place on my Hifi shelf. It has a mellow sound that works great with rock/metal music that isn't overly resolute and makes for a great "easy listening/relaxing" cartridge.
Having to pay extra for the 2M Blue made me not recommend the higher end RT tables that much, but with the MP110 I could comfortably recommend shelling out the extra money to a friend just so they don't end up with a 2M Red they wont ever use again when they upgrade to something better.
I would love to see a discounted RT84 maybe even down to $400 or $425 to make up some of the price difference to the 2M Blue, that would be a $500-$600 turntable killer for sure.
It's just a well built, good sounding, all around cart isn't it?
@@thevinylattack It is definitely great all around for sure, I've had mine for 6 years and it will probably be time for a new stylus soon due to the amount of hours I have on the current one, but it has held up well even when I was new to vinyl and had some mishaps cueing records. But the crazy thing to me about it is in certain cases it outshines cartridges 6 times the price which is why I still use it regularly.
I was hoping that they would have made some of the changes that you suggested in last year's review... a longer lift lever, a softer/slower rise of the arm (so that it is not so jarring and doesn't bounce), and I'm surprised that they didn't reduce the cost of the turntable considering the lower cost of the cartridge. I thoroughly appreciated the Pepsi challenge analogy, by the way, having lived through that era as well. Great review!
Perhaps with the next model...
Have the RT85 built up from an RT83 and the addition of the Nagaoka MP-150 was a game changer. The Ortofon 2M Red paired with ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 speakers made my ears bleed haha. MP-150 and no turning back, well worth the squeeze!
I agree wholeheartedly.
Thanks, Chris! I am new to the "hifi" world and am very excited about getting my feet wet. I am trying to decide between the RT 85, RT 85N, and the Project Carbon EVO. I like the look of the Project but I keep hearing about the value and quality of sound of the 2M blue and the Nagaoka MP-110. I haven't heard much about the Sumiko Rainier but I read on one of your comments that you do like it. I like the auto stop feature on the fluance and the acrylic platter but am starting to think that the auto stop isn't really a deal maker for me but the acrylic platter vs the steel platter does make me ponder...I am a fan of your reviews and have found myself to trust your word although I know you say it more so depends on my preference in sound at the end of the day, I just wanted to get your opinion on these concerns if you choose to give it. I wouldl like to mention that I have 2 wharfdale evo 4.1 speakers and the kef kc62 subwoofer and the yamaha tsr-700 receiver as my current system. Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks again Chris! :)
Of the three carts, I like the Nagaoka the best. The ProJect has a better tone arm, but it's also $100 more.
@@thevinylattack Preciate the input!
If you like the MP110, you'll really dig the MP200. I have that cartridge on my SL1200 MKII and it sounds awesome. It has a boron cantilever instead of aluminum.
I've heard it, I definitely liked it.
What a great perspective on the 2M Blue. Completely agree with the too bright/too sugary analogy but I also understand why some people love it and that it’s just not my thing. In fact, have you heard the OM 10 or 20? You get the same great Ortofon quality but with a slightly more subdued “Coke” sound that some people, like me, prefer. Keep on keeping one , Chris - you’re the one of the most reliable sources on UA-cam for audio reviews and advice.
P.S. I’m down to ordering the Fluance RT84 (I can get my own cartridge upgrade later) OR the Pro-Ject Debut Evo Carbon. I could use a quick gut check - feature differences aside, which one of these two do you think actually sounds better? Anyone?
I have heard the OM series, and while it's definitely a more balanced cart, it's not something I'd choose to own personally.
@@thevinylattack - well, I did end up choosing the RT85, which, as you know, comes stock with the 2M Blue. Any interesting cartridge pairing recommends you may have would be much appreciated. Cheers 🍻
Now if I could just find one. Sold out everywhere.
The supply chain has hit everyone sadly.
They should release it with a VM540ML. Similar price and out performs both of them. I personally think that their margins are being squeezed, so went with a cheaper, but still great performer. I have had a red and blue, which were ok, but way behind the 540ML, especially on older records. My 2 cents worth. The table itself is superb value for money with either cart.
But the VM540ML is around £210 here in the UK, so I could buy the RT82 and swap the Ortofon OM10 for the VM540ML but that would take me to the same price as the 85N, then I'd have to buy the acrylic platter, which would be another £100 or so ! Is the VM540ML that much better ? that's the burning question ?
it is not the only difference. Since no option to change VTA, they both have a different fixed angle which sounds like a big deal.
I'm not aware of any change in angle.
If I wanted a Pepsi commercial I would look 1 up
You misspelled 7Up.
The ortfon blue has a much better signal to noise ratio than the nagaoka mo150. It may be much more of an issue, depending on your preamp and Poweramp setup.
Excellent post mate! I sure didn't know about Fluance offering a different cartridge. I've read quite a bit about both, at least I THINK this is the Nagaoka I've read about, I can't say absolutely for sure. Opinions are quite divided as you can imagine, probably for the very reason you mention.
So, if you don't mind if I ask you, how is the overall presentation of your system? Because, say, if it is on the forward side, say with maybe Klipsch horns, etc., perhaps adding in the Ortofon would make it too bright. But, if it is already somewhat 'laid-back', then that would more strongly suggest the brightness of the Ortofon. My system is probably overall on the more laid-back side. It is comprised of two tall line-arrays with 13 open baffle dipole drivers a side. It is tri-amped with dual-mono amps running the two line arrays, with a Crown 2502 400/side running the 2-15" open baffle woofers. So, there is a HUGE soundstage and image, which is the way it was designed, but only having one ribbon tweeter a side, I would say that overall it is likely more laid-back.
I don't know if you allow people to post links, but if you do, I will try in a reply to this post to leave a link to pictures of my system, if that is okay with you. Thanks kindly again for the awesome update! 👍
Nope, sorry, can't do it 😕
My system is fairly neutral, but even on warmer systems I'm just not a fan of the Ortofon. Many people like it, and their not wrong, it's just individual taste.
Another Fantastic Video. Am I silly to want to upgrade my AT LP120 cartridge or should I just save up for a new turntable?
I started a few years ago with the AT LP60 and did an inexpensive cartridge upgrade off of Amazon Audio-Technica ATN3600L and really noticed a difference for $25. I am now using the RT-85 with the 2M Blue.
That's a tough one. The cartridge will make a huge difference, so unless you're planning on getting a much higher end table, I'd start with the cart. You can always take it over to a new table later on.
I had the issue and decided to jump to the Fluance RT85. Such a great value with the included 2m Blue cart. If you can swing it even going to the RT 84 may be a worthwhile upgrade for you.
I would really like to know what genres of music suits which cartridge best. I listen to jazz and Neo classical the most.
A good cartridge can play any type of music.
Great video, Chris. I'm very much new to records and turntables. Picked up a few new pressings of some Pink Floyd and I've yet to purchase a turntable. From what I understand, this is something that definitely should not be skimped out on. I would love to get something that's not just going to make my wallet lighter, but be more than a great beginner turntable and instead be one I can cherish for many years and records to come. Would you recommend this RT85N as a "forever" turntable or is there another product you would prefer? I'm all ears!
Any decent turntable can be a 'forever' table if it's a quality build and you put a good cartridge on it. It really comes down to budget.
This guy sounds like a robot. Beep bop boop.
Who says I'm not?
@@thevinylattack Lol. At least you're a good sport about it 👍🏼
Your presentation is not unlike that of a voice app that just reads a transcript.
@@jimbanville Fair enough.
Awesome video as always.
I am looking for suggestions on a pair of speakers ($100-150) that could pair well with the RT85 and a preamp. Thanks!
Great video and spot on for my taste as well with the MP-110 over the 2M Blue. I however have never owned an external preamp and have only used the built in one in my Yamaha receiver (currently the RX-A3070). It’s ok but I would like to try an external preamp for comparison. I was looking around $100 and was interested in the Douk Audio T4 with the hybrid tube setup for the warmer sound. Would this be too warm with the MP-110 cartridge? If so, what preamp would you suggest matching with the MP-110?
If you can hold out until this weekend, I think I have a video that will interest you.
I think it's pronounced like naga-oka 😁
Great review. Love the channel.
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the info. Your videos are always helpful.
Have you done any videos comparing Ortofon cartridge upgrades? I’m thinking about jumping from the red and blue up to the bronze or black. There is quite a dramatic price difference as you upgrade. Just wondered what your opinion is regarding the sound quality and whether it’s worth the extra money.
I do think the blue sounds better than the red, but I stopped there. I'm just not a big fan of their house sound.
Never had any issues with various Audio-Technica cartridges.
The Vinyl Attack in one of your videos you said in the 5 hundred dollar price range as far as speakers go you suggested Q, Triangle and Elac. Can u elaborate on which one? I'm in the market for some towers. Thanks
I have reviews on all three. That should steer you in the right direction.
I’m new to your channel and I’ve learned so much! Never had the money to put together a great system until now and you and many other reviewers have sold me on the Fluance Rt85N. The only problem is, with all the supply chain problems going on, their website states it will be June before they crank out some more. Bummer!
The RT85N is my choice but if I get the RT85 and swap out the cart it will cost me another $140 or so plus the preamp. If I go with the Schiit Mani it is $129 (plus a 4-6 weeks until they get their supply problems ironed out) or the iFi Zen for $200.
Should I wait till I can get the RT85N or buy the RT85 and swap out for a Nagaoka M110 cart? Either way I’m down for over $700 which is at the top of my budget?
Am I being too impatient here or should I step back and wait? I defer to those who have more expertise in the musical tech field. The turntable I buy will probably be my last one (can always upgrade the cart later when it wears out. Thanks for your help in advance.
Personally, I'd wait. As hard as that can be sometimes, there's just no point in buying your second choice only to make an upgrade in just a couple of months. For the phono pre, both are a great choice but I do prefer the iFi.
@@thevinylattack thanks. I guess cooler heads prevail. You’ve got a subscriber for life!
@@BarryFerguson33 I very much appreciate that.
I would prefer one without headshell, because the most likley I would ended up with one of audiotechnica microline cartridges. In that case I am not sure if it is worth to go above RT82
The Fluance line does offer quite a bit of flexibility and customization in their line. That might be your best bet.
Wow! You looked so young in your original RT85 review. Where does the time go? 😂 I did read some reviews and watched some video comparisons of these two carts. If the Naga was available when I purchased the RT 85 I would have went with that. I'm happy with the 2M Blue for now and it's great with my advanced beginner set up.
If you're happy, that's what counts. You can always buy a different cart down the line to change things up.
Great review, thanks! Question… Can a record clamp be used on the Fluance RT85?
New subscriber; great vid! Love the removable head shell feature. Worth getting the Fluance over my current Pro-Ject X1 do you think?
Cheers!
Definitely not. The ProJect has adjustable azimuth and VTA, not to mention a superior tonearm.
Cheers mate! Really enjoying the channel 👍
@@luckyintervale I'm glad to hear it.
I only wish I was much snappier/handier swapping cartridges
It takes time.
I like your pepsi challenge comparison
Curious on your thoughts on the at vm95ml?
I haven't heard the ML version, but I have been spending time with the VM95 E lately. It's a solid cart, so I'd imagine the ML would be as well. I can't say for certain, though.
Isn't the cartridge directly effected by the arm used? Curious just how much of a difference in sound a person whose looking at this price point is really going to hear between say the RT82 and the RT85/N when they all share the same arm.
While the arm does impact sound, the cartridge is far more noticeable.
Great video, would you still recommend the ifi zen phono over the schiit mani with the nag mp-110, or anything better?
The iFi Zen will be more than enough. I can't think of a phono pre-amp offhand that I'd recommend more under $500. Maybe more.
Ηello there! I need a MC cartridge for my Audio Note signature integrated amp.Which would you propose if not the ortofon?
great video ! what do you think is a better TT, Project Debut Carbon Evo or the RT85N? would appreciate a response !
The Evo has a better tonearm for sure, but it's also $100 more now after the price went up. Personally I'd either buy the Fluance at $500 or save my money to step up to something around the $1,000 range. $600 for the Evo is a bit too much for me.
Interested in your thoughts/review on some full automatic turntables. I have a unusual limited space & really want a full auto.
I happen to have a review for just such a thing on the horizon. I just got the table last week so bear with me while I put it through its paces over the next couple of weeks.
We agree w/you Chris. It’s been our experience that the MP110 sounds better. The Ortofon,either red or blue, isn’t as fulll.🎧 P.S. Thsnk you for the tip on Skill Share 📖
Am really hoping fluance comes out with a high quality direct drive turntable semi automatic or fully automatic would be awesome
I think it could really expand their customer base there is not nearly enough new direct drive tables out there with the exception of the standard fare
Particularly a direct drive for the audiophile market
If fluance did this I would make the purchase in a hot minute
Direct drive motors are more expensive and difficult to repair, which is why most budget 'tables use belt drive. Andrew Robinson was hard-pressed to hear a difference between his $1100 direct-drive Dual CS 618Q and the Fluance RT-85 when both had 2M Blue's on their tonearms.
Unfortunately, I don't think they're looking at moving into the DD market.
@@1mctous I was not thinking about a budget turntable I was thinking it could be a good way for fluance to enter into the higher end market I personally prefer direct drive turntables and as far as maintenance being more expensive my technics sl-1700 mk1 from 1978 is a solid performer that has given me zero issues since I bought it used some 20 years ago I have had to replace many belts over the years with my belt drive tables but that old faithful sl1700 keeps on truckin
I wouldn't mind forking out the extra cash for a modern dd turntable that has modern options and retro 70s turntable aesthetic
@@thevinylattack unfortunate because i really like fluance retro inspired designs and think that with some good old fashioned r&d they could offer a solid performing direct drive turntable and market it as a direct drive for audiophiles instead of djs
@@gregoryirwin263 I'm sure they could, I just don't see it being financially viable. Most people just aren't interested in DD tables these days.
I was going to upgrade my starter ATLP60x to the ATLP140xp however the RT85n has now got my attention. Any recommendations?
Of the three, I'd pick the Fluance and not look back.
If only it was direct drive. I like the idea of my first turntable being as little hassle as possible. Belts just seem "fiddly" and unnecessary to me. I am still looking at the RT85 as an option but I've also recently heard about the Dual CS 618Q, which is direct drive and has auto stop/lift and also comes with the Ortofon 2M Blue. Albeit, these added features for a little more money. Worth it in my opinion. I wonder if you could get your hands on one to compare? Also I can't see it being difficult to swap out the 2M Blue for a MP 110 on the Dual, if it's better.
A little more? It's $700 dollars more. That's a completely different category.
I see your point, but in a world that has turntables go up to a ridiculous $200k, to my mind this is unfortunately still entry level. It's disappointing what companies & retailers think they can charge for what should be basic features these days.
Chris..what is your personal tt? I believe i heard in a prev vid u have a Clearaudio. Thanks for the great work you put in btw
I do indeed currently use a Clearaudio concept with the satisfy black tonearm and a Hana ML cart.
great upload brother! i had one question about bight the 85 and 85n i spoke with a representative at Fluence and they claim that the tone arm was different on the RT85N that the tonearm was set higher for the build of the needle is this true? or was the rep ill-informed?
I haven't heard anything of the sort. I'm not saying they're wrong, but I also feel like that information would be more readily available if true.
@@thevinylattack i agree completely. i haven’t heard anything about the tonearm being different, i read up on the units and reviews from multiple platforms and hadn’t heard a thing about a redesigned tonearm. *though it would be great if they eventually upgraded to one that is adjustable .. aside from all of that I’m interested in purchasing the unit just undecided between the ortofon and the nagaoka .. i’m a nightclub and radio dj and have been working on technics since i began with that said my go to performance needle were always ortofon. i’ve predominantly used both the ortofon “dj”” and the “nightclub” so i am very familiar on the clarity of these needles i haven’t had the pleasure of sampling the 2m blue .. so being i am purchasing the unit would it in your opinion be a smarter to initially go for the nagaoka? i haven’t personally worked with or heard much about the company before. clearly there’s a big difference between performing at a club and enjoying a record within the comfort of your home .. you were so very informative *and always are* in your uploads I’m still stuck between the 2. should i just get both? lol
Well only one small nitty picky complaint.
You hit on the main difference Coke, or Pepsi, and should have left it at that. 2M blue is too sweet for you, but not everyone likes less sweetness. It would be better to say. Leave it to preference. Not everyone likes Coke over Pepsi, nor vice versa. But every cola drinker will pick one, or the other, depending on long listening sessions. I personally have my Rt85 with the blue, and never found it Pepsi sweet. It always leaves a great taste to my senses, sip, after sip. And that should have been stressed a bit more than skimming over that point.
If I felt that way, that's what I'd have said. I feel a different way, hence the video.
@@thevinylattack well I guess your ears aren't as good as I've given you credit for. lol
If I were going to upgrade, I'd go to the Ortofon bronze. Your show though! And to be fair, I'd have to listen to the Nagaoka MP-110 to make any personal opinions. We all have different tastes. That's why we have 400,000 cartridges, and styli.
@@danootto6382 So you prefer the 2M Blue, but you haven't heard the Nagaoka? 🤦♂
@@thevinylattack Here's my 1 cent. The Nagaoka MP-110 is is some cases up to a hundred dollars less expensive. Who serves to gain from offering this wonderful turntable with this price advantage for Fluance? Each player they sell with the Nagaoka is more money in the sellers pockets. Just the looks of the two side by side, shows quite a contrast in build, of course without seeing the Nagaoka being built, which I have in the Ortofon manufacturers factory. Now of course, up to this point, you are correct. My point is only my own up to here, without hearing the Nagaoka MP-110 yet I have heard a little from some of their line, on different turntables. I found the product a bit different in listening quality. Not to, as you say, my liking, or taste. Now I have owned hundreds, of pieces of audiophile quality gear for some 40+ years. I also know not all are going to like even either choice. But just until I lend my ears to participating in a non closed challenge, I am not convinced this new possible gem is not a short lived sweetness to yo, and others. I've followed you for a bit, and do not wish to Troll your personal observations. You've done quite well in my opinion, and speak quite eloquently, and are quite intelligent in my opinion. But from one audiophiles ear to another's, it stands to reason, we will agree to disagree in many areas. Hence 400,000 manufacturers, all claiming kingship for their customers ears.
@@danootto6382 It's never a problem to disagree, but if you haven't spent time with the Nagaoka you're making an uninformed statement. Cost be damned. If you like the Ortofon, that's great. It's not a bad cart at all, it's just too bright for me. It's also too bright for many other people I know. It doesn't mean someone is wrong or right, but I'm speaking from a place of having experienced both. That's the opinion I'm going to give.
Rega could learn alot from Fluance putting a nice stylus on there units the AT3600 is a cheep stylus for what they cost they need a better stylus
It probably wouldn't hurt.
Great review and insight have watched almost all your your videos.
Looking at Evo vs Rt-85N..... What are your thoughts? Head to head.
It's a tough call. The Evo has a better tonearm, but it's also $100 more these days and I don't see the value as much as I used to. I'd say it comes down to the features you like more.
@@thevinylattack Seems like the Fluance is the value leader. Especially with that auto stop definitely a nice feature.
Lately been trying to support companies that are manufacturing outside of China. Tough decision.
Thanks for the response. Keep up the great videos.
@@joebelles Fluance is made in Taiwan.
I just recently got my RT85N and it is popping/crackling constantly. Their support says that the cartridge needs 20 hours of 'break-in' playing time. I have never heard of this with any turntable before and my previous table, a Pro-ject Carbon Debut, didn't have this issue. And yes, I've used an anti-static brush on the vinyl, etc. I'm going to give it the full 20+ hours of break in time, but was wondering if anyone else has had this experience?
The break-in period of your cartridge doesn't have anything to do with the popping. That's going to be a different issue you'll need to track down.
random question, but would a fluance rt83 and a andover spinbase turntable speaker system go well together?
They would indeed.