The 3 Body Problem Explored - Robin Hanson, Anders Sandberg & Joscha Bach
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- The 3 Body Problem Explored: Cosmic Sociology, Longtermism & Existential Risk - round table discussion with three great minds: Robin Hanson, Anders Sandberg and Joscha Bach - moderated by Adam Ford (SciFuture) and James Hughes (IEET).
Some of the items discussed:
- How can narratives that keep people engaged avoid falling short of being realistic?
- In what ways is AI superintelligence kept of stage to allow a narrative that is familiar and easier to make sense of?
- Differences in moral perspectives - moral realism, existentialism and anti-realism
- Will values of advanced civilisations converge to a small number of possibilities, or will they vary greatly?
- How much will competition be the dominant dynamic in the future, compared to co-ordination?
- In a competitive dynamic, will defense or offense be the most dominant strategy?
Many thanks for tuning in!
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Kind regards,
Adam Ford
- Science, Technology & the Future - #SciFuture - scifuture.org - Наука та технологія
Here's a story by Joscha Bach. "Evolution is about getting eaten by monsters. Don't go into the desert and perish there, because it's going to be a waste. If you're lucky the monsters that eat you are your own children. And eventually the search for evolution will, if evolution reaches its global optimum, it will be the perfect devourer. The thing that is able to digest anything and turn it into structure to sustain and perpetuate itself, for long as the local puddle of negentropy is available.
And in a way we are yeast. Everything we do, all the complexity that we create, all the structures we build, is to erect some surfaces on which to out compete other kinds of yeast. And if you realize this you can try to get behind this and I think the solution to this is fascism. Fascism is a mode of organization of society in which the individual is a cell in the superorganism and the value of the individual is exactly the contribution to the superorganism. And when the contribution is negative then the superorganism kills it in order to be fitter in the competition against other superorganisms. And it's totally brutal. I don't like fascism because it's going to kill a lot of minds I like.
And the arts is slightly different. It's a mutation that is arguably not completely adaptive. It's one where people fall in love with the loss function. Where you think that your mental representation is the intrinsically important thing. That you try to capture a conscious state for its own sake, because you think that matters. The true artist in my view is somebody who captures conscious states and that's the only reason why they eat. So you eat to make art. And another person makes art to eat. And these are of course the ends of a spectrum and the truth is often somewhere in the middle, but in a way there is this fundamental distinction.
And there are in some sense the true scientists which are trying to figure out something about the universe. They are trying to reflect it. And it's an artistic process in a way. It's an attempt to be a reflection to this universe. You see there is this amazing vast darkness which is the universe. There's all these iterations of patterns, but mostly there is nothing interesting happening in these patterns. It's a giant fractal and most of it is just boring. And at a brief moment in the evolution of the universe there are planetary surfaces and negentropy gradients that allow for the creation of structure and then there are some brief flashes of consciousness in all this vast darkness. And these brief flashes of consciousness can reflect the universe and maybe even figure out what it is. It's the only chance that we have. Right? This is amazing. Why not do this? Life is short. This is the thing we can do.”
i cant wait for a potential new book from Joscha... or I guess I can wait for as long as necessary but I'd relish having all these great ideas refined and collected in one place where I can digest it slowly, rather than from just his podcast appearances
Wow! Always a pleasure to listen to these guys!
Lovely crossover!
thanks adam, i really enjoyed it!
I really would like this group to meet again. I really enjoyed each of the ideas put forward. I hope we can find meaningful ways of making mankind (and the whole variety of life on earth) robust enough to wearger the existential threats they discussed here, and hopefully become interesting enough for AGI to consider integrating/keeping around 😊.
I hope they can come together again
great
Hey! Anders!
RIP Vernor Vinge
R.H. has already considered all of the game theory intricacies of this topic. The other guests, while brilliant, have not. Hanson's ideas on Panspermia, Grabby Aliens, and EMs, is fascinating.
At times, Robin manages to produce some of the silliest arguments I've ever heard.
It's amazing isn't it? Can't wait until AI makes him redundant.
He did originate some really big ideas that a lot of people respect while disagreeing with him on other matters.
scifi ideas are so much more enjoyable that scifi writing 😆 ooo, scifi concepts as memes
Dark Forest immediately seemed highly implausible to me in that, well, you _can't_ hide. And you certainly can't both hide and be a tech civ capable of commanding the energies required to proactively snuff your neighbors.
it seems like this half-bald guy did not really read those books. just two examples:
"if life is next to us it is everywhere" => no. the alien "Singer" was also surprised that those "dots" or "points" are nearly over each other. indicating that it is absolutly unusual, that two species live next to each other.
Or when he critizises that aliens are not able to identify where a message comes from. again he seems to not have read the books because it is even stated there, that it is part of the protocoll to identify where a message comes from although he says it is mostly useless (becasue nearly no one is so stupid to send it from his own planet.)
Is this an old discussion? 80% of this discussion had nothing to do with the 3 body problem. 100% of this discussion has no experience with aliens. 20% of this discussion was highly offensive. ☺️ Sooo did they figure out the problem? Was it the one methodology picked up and extended at least two more times over large timescales?
Guys...I think the dehydration part in the series had to do with water memory, the ashes was the dust memory, and the rock was the stone memory.
not old
@@scfuI swear it was lol thanks all then same
imo the discussion would be much more fruitfull without those random positions of Robin Hanson who does not seem to understand that much. :D
It’s funny because I was thinking the opposite. Really fun discussion either way.
Absolutely agree. Him and the Scandinavian guy are like man-babies in middle aged men suits. They added nothing of value while talking the most (and over everyone else). Can't wait for these old, irrelevant people to go away.