Thank you so much for this videos. They are really helpful for the ones that are looking to start (or come back) in N5 and don’t have any idea of what to buy first.
Thanks for putting all this out there - more good Aussie Infinity content is always welcome! I'm a less experienced player than you, but my first impression for MO in N5 is: We've improved in general, but probably not enough to massively change where we sit in terms of tiers or competitive viability. All those points decreases are nice, but a lot of units are getting cheaper across the entire game, and MO's major weaknesses remain present. This latter point is good for the game - every sectorial needs weaknesses as well as strengths - but I'm not getting too excited about any other changes. Internal balance changes are mostly good. The Tikbalang was great, but it was a bit too much of an auto-pick. Generally MO's best units have stayed the same or come down just a little bit (Teutons, Trins, Montesas, the Tik), whereas the units that weren't seeing much play have come up a bit (Hospitallers, Crusaders, the Seraph), and that's all a good move towards hopefully opening up some new builds and making the faction more interesting. The Teuton nerf doesn't bother me that much, and I feel like it helps give the Teutons a specific if narrower niche, rather than just being the good HI knights. I like that you note that these changes have pushed the faction more in the direction of its intended fantasy. I still don't think we're going to see e.g. a big Hospitaller core pretending it's Invincible Army and smashing its way across the board, but there are more options for viably using MO's coolest units, which is to say, the heavy infantry knights. They won't be the entire force, but a Hospitaller duo, or KOJ or Crux knight leading a light infantry team, or even just playing more aggressively with a non-LT Joan will be more viable. In terms of faction design I think it makes sense to take a look at why a player might pick this faction, or what they will intuitively gravitate towards doing with it, and then trying to make that viable. One thing you didn't mention that occurred to me was the changes to Frenzy and Impetuous. Most of our HI have Frenzy, but due to being linked we usually didn't see it mattering. That's no longer the case, so we might need to worry about that now or else be taken by surprise. It probably won't make a huge difference in most cases, but I'm prepared to be wrong on that.
Very much correct on the frenzy and I do think it is a BIG deal! Unfortunately an initial reaction can only cover so much so thanks for pointing it out! It is a bit of a worry admittedly especially with Mobility Joan and the Hospitaller HMG. The close assault units in multi rifle bands and below I’m less concerned about, but if in 6 months time the gunfighters with frenzy turn out not to be viable because of it I won’t be surprised. For now I’m hoping that either hoping that the frenzied gunfighters are able to either 1. Do enough in one turn to justify the frenzy; and/or 2. Be able to lean on their great statline to where frenzy does not matter as much as it would otherwise. With the general water level of the game lowering I find option 2 somewhat encouraging but it remains to be seen Regarding the Tikbalang, as Jordan said in Rob Shepherd’s latest video there is the worry that by the tik losing AP, the seraph just becomes the amazing new auto pick TAG with how fantastic it is but this will depend on how good the rest of the faction turns out to be. My MO lists for the Aussie nationals last year boiled down to Tik + De Fersen and there is sort of a vision for that to be replicated with the seraph if the changes to make the knights more playable doesn’t quite get there. Keen to explore!
The Frenzy impact not being stopped by inclusion in fireteams is really impactful. So the HMG will really have one round of utility. Two Hospitallers joined by something without frenzy is pretty nice looking. I like the FD Montessa a lot. I think there’s enough up field options that the paramedic has a place. It’s so cheap too.
I stripped my MO models at the start of the year to repaint them and ended up losing interest because I'd been struggling with the team, this doesn't really get me excited enough to repaint them as they still seem to have the same issues.
From the lists I’ve tested and seen you’re able to fit a lot more knights on than in N5 which is a step in the right direction. Their high statline is also now much more impactful. Cost of hacking defense still remains an issue as does access to cheap orders but it’s definitely worth giving another shot, lots of cool reworks and adjustments!
@@InfinityDante A hidden buff to HI is that now linked team don't get better burst, so snipers for example will had a harder time one shoting HI, since they will mos likely not make you roll 2 armour saves now. And this can be extended to other weapons. The 2 wounds high armour is a lot more noticeble now, I think HI list got a nice upgrade.
The main issue with a tikbalang these days is the loss of AP makes fighting tags more annoying where you generally want tags to be able to punch up and in their weight category. Running the numbers a tik shooting at a tag with armour 8 and cover in optimal range is doing an average of 1 wound every 2 orders (47% chance to wound), so 6 orders to kill an enemy tag and maybe 1 or 2 extra to clear off the body. A seraph is shooting with at 60% chance to wound per order and a koths is shooting with a 52% so it and the koths are comparable where the seraph has a clear advantage where I would be gravitating towards the seraph. The nerf to climbing plus also hurts. Overall I’d say to take the seraph most of the time if u want a tag with the tikbalang being an upgrade to the koths if you have the pints for it. He’s not unplayable by any stretch of the imagination and he’s still perfectly viable but I think he does get outclassed by the seraph overall
Hi @InfinitytheDante, if one would like to start MO (even though they are not as cool as many n5 winners, what is first to buy to have a 300 pts list? Thank you
Here’s a serviceable starting list you could play with those pickups! MO is a VERY fun and rewarding faction! After these I’d look at Teutonic knights and knights of montessa to expand, good luck!
I think my military orders army going to be sidelined this entire edition. way better and much more fun stuff in other armies. I think there are some interesting changes, but MO is essentially still playing N4 with buffs to already good units and nerfs to already bad units. CB will definitely look into rebalancing MO but it will be a LONG time until that happens
I don't know why you're having audio issues, the video seems to be on the same audio level as other youtube videos for me, and i don't have any sound equalizer running. You should start cutting out lipsmacks, tongue movement and similar noises though (for example 20:14, 20:27, 4:18, 4:14)
The Frenzy impact not being stopped by inclusion in fireteams is really impactful. So the HMG will really have one round of utility. Two Hospitallers joined by something without frenzy is pretty nice looking. I like the FD Montessa a lot. I think there’s enough up field options that the paramedic has a place. It’s so cheap too.
The need to climbing plus hurts the Tik and I am glad for the Tik to be nerfed. It wasn’t the iconic tag of the faction and now Seraph really is king of the faction
I guess for me with the FD montessa I’d rather just take the motorized. If you’re doing second with the montessa 8’ up I’d be worried about getting bricked turn one. Motorized is also able to pivot or reach multiple objectives better too. Very true about frenzy but the issue is that the Hospitallers can’t link with anything else that has a HMG range band. The goal will likely be to use the HMG turn one to push to the midfield where then the doc can take over. Otherwise it’s just back to the spitfire club who have better things to link with. But sad about the tik, he’s relatively hard to take now with all the changes, would’ve liked to see a middle ground
@ it’s possible the Montessa gets bricked. But that’s orders spent. And the Motirized version is going to those same places. It has to cover the gap however. So depending on the board layout it can be beneficial to just have a 24 point paramedic (also thinking supplies here) to move right up and grab what’s needed. MO always has a problem with going second. Its whole schtick is inherently vulnerable to hacking. So either stay in the back, and have your repeaters out there and spend orders moving up, or apply pressure upfield. It’s a nice internal pressure. I also happen to like the FD Hospitallers too. The idea of a duo or Haris up field and easier to break through to the enemy is appealing. Course I would recommend having a non-hack able TT or something to kill repeaters or the Crusader to go after a hacker.
Very nuanced video, good job! Looking forward for your takes on White Banner.
Thank you so much for this videos. They are really helpful for the ones that are looking to start (or come back) in N5 and don’t have any idea of what to buy first.
Since NCA is gone, MO is my new favorite sectorial! Thanks for the update.
Thanks for putting all this out there - more good Aussie Infinity content is always welcome!
I'm a less experienced player than you, but my first impression for MO in N5 is:
We've improved in general, but probably not enough to massively change where we sit in terms of tiers or competitive viability. All those points decreases are nice, but a lot of units are getting cheaper across the entire game, and MO's major weaknesses remain present. This latter point is good for the game - every sectorial needs weaknesses as well as strengths - but I'm not getting too excited about any other changes.
Internal balance changes are mostly good. The Tikbalang was great, but it was a bit too much of an auto-pick. Generally MO's best units have stayed the same or come down just a little bit (Teutons, Trins, Montesas, the Tik), whereas the units that weren't seeing much play have come up a bit (Hospitallers, Crusaders, the Seraph), and that's all a good move towards hopefully opening up some new builds and making the faction more interesting. The Teuton nerf doesn't bother me that much, and I feel like it helps give the Teutons a specific if narrower niche, rather than just being the good HI knights.
I like that you note that these changes have pushed the faction more in the direction of its intended fantasy. I still don't think we're going to see e.g. a big Hospitaller core pretending it's Invincible Army and smashing its way across the board, but there are more options for viably using MO's coolest units, which is to say, the heavy infantry knights. They won't be the entire force, but a Hospitaller duo, or KOJ or Crux knight leading a light infantry team, or even just playing more aggressively with a non-LT Joan will be more viable. In terms of faction design I think it makes sense to take a look at why a player might pick this faction, or what they will intuitively gravitate towards doing with it, and then trying to make that viable.
One thing you didn't mention that occurred to me was the changes to Frenzy and Impetuous. Most of our HI have Frenzy, but due to being linked we usually didn't see it mattering. That's no longer the case, so we might need to worry about that now or else be taken by surprise. It probably won't make a huge difference in most cases, but I'm prepared to be wrong on that.
Very much correct on the frenzy and I do think it is a BIG deal! Unfortunately an initial reaction can only cover so much so thanks for pointing it out! It is a bit of a worry admittedly especially with Mobility Joan and the Hospitaller HMG. The close assault units in multi rifle bands and below I’m less concerned about, but if in 6 months time the gunfighters with frenzy turn out not to be viable because of it I won’t be surprised.
For now I’m hoping that either hoping that the frenzied gunfighters are able to either
1. Do enough in one turn to justify the frenzy; and/or
2. Be able to lean on their great statline to where frenzy does not matter as much as it would otherwise.
With the general water level of the game lowering I find option 2 somewhat encouraging but it remains to be seen
Regarding the Tikbalang, as Jordan said in Rob Shepherd’s latest video there is the worry that by the tik losing AP, the seraph just becomes the amazing new auto pick TAG with how fantastic it is but this will depend on how good the rest of the faction turns out to be. My MO lists for the Aussie nationals last year boiled down to Tik + De Fersen and there is sort of a vision for that to be replicated with the seraph if the changes to make the knights more playable doesn’t quite get there. Keen to explore!
Excited to keep tabs on your channel! Just a heads-up, the volume level is quite low. I've got my headphones maxed, and it's still tough to hear.
The Frenzy impact not being stopped by inclusion in fireteams is really impactful. So the HMG will really have one round of utility. Two Hospitallers joined by something without frenzy is pretty nice looking.
I like the FD Montessa a lot. I think there’s enough up field options that the paramedic has a place. It’s so cheap too.
On the Holy Sepulchre he went down to 1 SWC from 1.5 so the Knight commander SWC tax is essentially split between the two units
Koths was always 1 SWC I’m afraid :((
There is a lot of good here in MO. NCO being on Seraph is huge.
Maybe kick the volume up a notch or two
I stripped my MO models at the start of the year to repaint them and ended up losing interest because I'd been struggling with the team, this doesn't really get me excited enough to repaint them as they still seem to have the same issues.
From the lists I’ve tested and seen you’re able to fit a lot more knights on than in N5 which is a step in the right direction. Their high statline is also now much more impactful. Cost of hacking defense still remains an issue as does access to cheap orders but it’s definitely worth giving another shot, lots of cool reworks and adjustments!
@@InfinityDante A hidden buff to HI is that now linked team don't get better burst, so snipers for example will had a harder time one shoting HI, since they will mos likely not make you roll 2 armour saves now. And this can be extended to other weapons. The 2 wounds high armour is a lot more noticeble now, I think HI list got a nice upgrade.
Think it's worth taking the tikbalang still? Or better to bring the koths/seraph?
The main issue with a tikbalang these days is the loss of AP makes fighting tags more annoying where you generally want tags to be able to punch up and in their weight category. Running the numbers a tik shooting at a tag with armour 8 and cover in optimal range is doing an average of 1 wound every 2 orders (47% chance to wound), so 6 orders to kill an enemy tag and maybe 1 or 2 extra to clear off the body. A seraph is shooting with at 60% chance to wound per order and a koths is shooting with a 52% so it and the koths are comparable where the seraph has a clear advantage where I would be gravitating towards the seraph. The nerf to climbing plus also hurts.
Overall I’d say to take the seraph most of the time if u want a tag with the tikbalang being an upgrade to the koths if you have the pints for it. He’s not unplayable by any stretch of the imagination and he’s still perfectly viable but I think he does get outclassed by the seraph overall
Hi @InfinitytheDante, if one would like to start MO (even though they are not as cool as many n5 winners, what is first to buy to have a 300 pts list? Thank you
Grab the N4 action pack, remotes (the new peacemakers and new little bots cover and proxy for a lot!), and a pack of Trinitarians!
Here’s a serviceable starting list you could play with those pickups! MO is a VERY fun and rewarding faction! After these I’d look at Teutonic knights and knights of montessa to expand, good luck!
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@@InfinityDante thank you and Merry Christmas,!
I think my military orders army going to be sidelined this entire edition. way better and much more fun stuff in other armies. I think there are some interesting changes, but MO is essentially still playing N4 with buffs to already good units and nerfs to already bad units. CB will definitely look into rebalancing MO but it will be a LONG time until that happens
take down the video. triple the volume, reupload.
I don't know why you're having audio issues, the video seems to be on the same audio level as other youtube videos for me, and i don't have any sound equalizer running.
You should start cutting out lipsmacks, tongue movement and similar noises though (for example 20:14, 20:27, 4:18, 4:14)
The Frenzy impact not being stopped by inclusion in fireteams is really impactful. So the HMG will really have one round of utility. Two Hospitallers joined by something without frenzy is pretty nice looking.
I like the FD Montessa a lot. I think there’s enough up field options that the paramedic has a place. It’s so cheap too.
The need to climbing plus hurts the Tik and I am glad for the Tik to be nerfed. It wasn’t the iconic tag of the faction and now Seraph really is king of the faction
I guess for me with the FD montessa I’d rather just take the motorized. If you’re doing second with the montessa 8’ up I’d be worried about getting bricked turn one. Motorized is also able to pivot or reach multiple objectives better too.
Very true about frenzy but the issue is that the Hospitallers can’t link with anything else that has a HMG range band. The goal will likely be to use the HMG turn one to push to the midfield where then the doc can take over. Otherwise it’s just back to the spitfire club who have better things to link with.
But sad about the tik, he’s relatively hard to take now with all the changes, would’ve liked to see a middle ground
@ it’s possible the Montessa gets bricked. But that’s orders spent. And the Motirized version is going to those same places. It has to cover the gap however. So depending on the board layout it can be beneficial to just have a 24 point paramedic (also thinking supplies here) to move right up and grab what’s needed.
MO always has a problem with going second. Its whole schtick is inherently vulnerable to hacking. So either stay in the back, and have your repeaters out there and spend orders moving up, or apply pressure upfield. It’s a nice internal pressure. I also happen to like the FD Hospitallers too. The idea of a duo or Haris up field and easier to break through to the enemy is appealing. Course I would recommend having a non-hack able TT or something to kill repeaters or the Crusader to go after a hacker.