Simplifying a Golden Radical Expression in Two Ways

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  • Опубліковано 4 січ 2025

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  • @alnitaka
    @alnitaka 3 роки тому +8

    I note that the conjugate of sqrt(5)+2 is 2-sqrt(5), not sqrt(5)-2, because the radical changes when you conjugate. My idea for solving this is to add the conjugates together: (2+sqrt(5))^(1/3) + (2-sqrt(5))^(1/3). This looks like the solution of a cubic equation; in fact, if you "antisolve" the expression (a+sqrt(b))^(1/3) + (a-sqrt(b))^(1/3), by comparing a and b with -q/2 and q^2/4+p^3/27, you get the equation x^3-3*(a^2-b)^(1/3)* x-2a=0. Substituting 2 and 5 for a and b gives x^3+3x-4=0. Lo and behold, 1 solves this equation. The other two roots are complex and can't be right since everything here is real. Therefore (2+sqrt(5))^(1/3) + (2-sqrt(5))^(1/3) = 1. Now multiply them. (2+sqrt(5))^(1/3) * (2-sqrt(5))^(1/3) = (4-5)^(1/3) = -1. So (2+sqrt(5))^(1/3) and its conjugate satisfy x^2-x-1 = 0, from which you get phi and -1/phi as roots. So (2+sqrt(5))^(1/3) = phi.

  • @piyushdaga357
    @piyushdaga357 3 роки тому +4

    Great way of solving this radical
    Loved the first way!

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому +1

      Glad you liked it!

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 3 роки тому

      @@SyberMath why would anyone ever think pf adding the cube root pf radocal 5 minus 2? I don't see why amyone would think of that ? Don't you agree?

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому

      @@leif1075 Thanks for the question! Someone who dealt with radical expressions for while and solved a good variety of problems on radicals should know how to use conjugates in certain situations. It takes practice and willingness to learn these. I know it's not always very straightforward and that's why I presented an alternative solution method.

  • @user-dz6pi4sm8u
    @user-dz6pi4sm8u 3 роки тому +4

    Amazing, it looks like a number impossible to simplify but indeed it is! Math is magic!

  • @septembrinol1
    @septembrinol1 Рік тому

    u + 1/u = √5 provides 2 solutions u1 and u2 since u1 is = 1/u2 and viceversa. Both are positive and one is greater than 1. The other, since it's the reciprocal of tht one, is less than 1. We need the greater one. So, pick the + version

  • @adandap
    @adandap 3 роки тому +7

    Or if you know that phi = (root(5)+1)/2, you can note that root(5) + 2 = root(5) + 1 + 1 = 2 phi +1, and use phi^2 = phi +1 to see that phi^3 = phi^2 + phi = 2 phi +1, so cuberoot(2 phi +1) = cuberoot(phi^3) = phi.

  • @XJWill1
    @XJWill1 3 роки тому +8

    Here is the general method I use when trying to denest a cube root radical with a square root inside.
    Begin by assuming the radical denests as
    eq1: (A + sqrt(B))^(1/3) = X + sqrt(Y)
    which if it does hold, then it can be shown (but I will not do so here) that
    eq2: (A - sqrt(B))^(1/3) = X - sqrt(Y)
    Now, define the product of the left hand sides of eq1 and eq2 as R
    R = (A^2 - B)^(1/3)
    and note that R must be a rational number for the cube root to denest. That is a necessary but not sufficient condition for denesting to succeed. Next, multiply eq1 and eq2 to get
    eq3: X^2 - Y = R
    which will be used later. Now add eq1 and eq2 to get
    2*X = (A + sqrt(B))^(1/3) + (A - sqrt(B))^(1/3)
    and cube that to get
    8*X^3 = A + sqrt(B) + A - sqrt(B) + 3*R*((A + sqrt(B))^(1/3) + (A - sqrt(B))^(1/3)) = 2*A + 3*R*(2*X)
    which can be rearranged to standard form for a depressed cubic equation
    eq4: 4*X^3 - 3*R*X - A = 0
    which, if you try to solve using Cardano's formula you will just get more nested radicals. So use the rational root theorem to find a root X1:
    (any factor of A) / (± any factor of 4)
    There are 6 possibilities for the denominator (±1, ±2, ±4) and N number of possibilities for the numerator (do not double for plus/minus for the numerator or you double count) so at most 6*N for the total number of possible rational roots to try in eq4 (usually fewer depending on the actual factors). Of course you can stop once you find one that works. Then you can determine Y from eq3
    Y = X^2 - R
    In this case, A = 2 , B = 5, and R = -1 so the cubic is
    4*X^3 + 3*X - 2 = 0
    so there are at most 6*2 = 12 possibilities for a rational root as (1,2) / (±1, ±2, ±4) but there are actually only 8 possibilities in this case and I find that X = 1/2 is a root, and then Y = X^2 - R = 1/4 - (-1) = 5/4 so we have
    X + sqrt(Y) = 1/2 + sqrt(5/4) = (1 + sqrt(5)) / 2

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому +1

      Nice!

    • @XJWill1
      @XJWill1 2 роки тому

      @Afnaan2701 All cubic formulas such as Cardano's formula will just give you a nested radical, which is what we already are struggling with. That is why you need to use the rational root theorem instead of a formula (or the method used to derive the formula, which is of course the same as using the formula)

    • @XJWill1
      @XJWill1 2 роки тому

      @Afnaan2701 No, that is incorrect. As I said, there are formulas for the solution to cubic equations, such as Cardano's formula. The issue is that the formula contains nested radicals, so the formulas are generally not helpful in denesting nested radicals.

    • @XJWill1
      @XJWill1 2 роки тому

      @Afnaan2701 I already answered your question. Twice. I am going to stop replying now.

  • @kurtlichtenstein2325
    @kurtlichtenstein2325 3 роки тому +20

    (Root 5 plus 1 over 2): You know who I am! Say my name!
    SyberMath: No.

    • @kurtlichtenstein2325
      @kurtlichtenstein2325 3 роки тому +2

      Root 5 + 2 = 2 phi + 1
      2 phi + 1 = phi+phi+1
      Phi+phi+1 = phi +(phi^2)
      Phi + (phi^2) = phi (phi +1)
      Phi (phi +1) = phi (phi^2)
      Phi (phi^2) = phi^3
      Cube root of phi cubed is phi.

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому +4

      Who is phi? 😂😂😂

    • @leif1075
      @leif1075 3 роки тому

      @@SyberMath Coukdbt you just cube the whole expression and work from there..dont you think this isnwhat most people would do?

    • @user-dz6pi4sm8u
      @user-dz6pi4sm8u 3 роки тому +1

      @@kurtlichtenstein2325 Nice one, indeed! In this case one must know what is phi.

    • @user-dz6pi4sm8u
      @user-dz6pi4sm8u 3 роки тому +1

      @@SyberMath
      Root 5 +2=2phi +1
      phi^2=phi+1
      root 5+2=phi+phi+1=phi+phi^2=phi^3
      X=phi=root 5 +2 over 2

  • @SuperYoonHo
    @SuperYoonHo 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks for the Golden video!🤣 🏆

  • @RexxSchneider
    @RexxSchneider 2 роки тому

    Here's a general method, with no "magic" or "deus ex-machina" in it, although the final step does involve an obvious guess. Since radicals and integers are independent bases, we know that ∛(√5+2) will be of the form a + b√5. Cubing (a + b√5), we get a^3 + 3a^2*b√5 + 15a*b^2 + 5√5*b^3. Equating coefficients of the integers of that and (√5+2), we get a^3 + 15a*b^2 = 2. Equating coefficients of the √5 parts gives 3a^2*b + 5b^3 = 1. Now, those look rather difficult to solve for a and b, but you can see a solution more easily by substituting c=2a and d=2b, then multiplying both sides of both equations by 8. That gives 3c^2*d + 5d^3 = 8 and c^3 + 15c*d^2 = 16. Looking at the coefficients indicates c=1, d=1. So a=1/2, b=1/2 and therefore ∛(√5+2) = 1/2 + √5/2.

  • @pietergeerkens6324
    @pietergeerkens6324 3 роки тому +1

    With a little bit of Pell Equation theory one can just write:
    √5 + 2 = ⅛⋅(5√5 + 15 + 3√5 + 1)
    = ⅛⋅(5√5 + 3⋅5 + 3⋅√5 + 1)
    = ⅛⋅(√5³ + 3⋅√5² + 3⋅√5 + 1)
    = (½)³⋅(√5 + 1)³.
    This may look magical, but is really just recognizing the Pell Eqn consequences of the second method;
    and applying them.
    One knows to use 8 as the expansion factor because it equals 2 cubed, and the coefficients are too small originally.
    In my experience, these denestings are almost always well known Pell applications.

  • @septembrinol1
    @septembrinol1 Рік тому

    The first expression you wrote looks like the solution to a 3rd degree using Cardano's formula. I usually have trouble getting from there towards the original expression. But I will watch the rest of the video to see if that helps

    • @septembrinol1
      @septembrinol1 Рік тому

      f(x) = x^3 - 3x - 2v5. It's derivative is 3x^2 - 3, which has 2 real solutions, 1 and - 1. Plugging them into f(x), I get 1-3-2√5, which is

    • @septembrinol1
      @septembrinol1 Рік тому

      My take: x^3 - 3x - 2√5 = 0. Use x = y√5. Then 5y^3 √5 - 3y √5 - 2√5 = √5(5y^3 - 3y - 2) = 0. The sum of the coefficients is 0. So, 1 is a root. y = 1 => x = √5

  • @kaslircribs5804
    @kaslircribs5804 3 роки тому

    Wow! Thanks again for your amazing solution and explanation, professor!

  • @vacuumcarexpo
    @vacuumcarexpo 3 роки тому +1

    I expanded (1+√5)^3 as a trial.
    I found the solution immediately.

  • @mariomestre7490
    @mariomestre7490 3 роки тому

    Per que, min 9:37 , podem fer b=ka?
    El sistema dius qué és homogeni, però té termes constants (eq1=2 i eq2=1)?
    Merci
    ( escrit en Català)

  • @shafinahmed5691
    @shafinahmed5691 3 роки тому

    Amaizing sir!!!😃😃

  • @ابوسالم-ه7م
    @ابوسالم-ه7م 3 роки тому

    Thanks for all.

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому

      You are most welcome! 😊

  • @parimalthakur8939
    @parimalthakur8939 3 роки тому

    I would request you to look into the matter that whenever you were writing in the lower portion of the board the writings were being covered by your speech though it was seen when it scrolled upward. Pl. consider my problem. With thanks and I appreciate you for the efforts.

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому

      Good point. I'll try to be more careful

  • @kailashanand5086
    @kailashanand5086 3 роки тому +1

    wow I did not see that at all!!!

  • @佐藤広-c4p
    @佐藤広-c4p 2 роки тому

    Here's how I know how to solve it: First, let α = 3√ (√5 +2), β = 3 √ (√ 5-2), then α ^3-β ^3 = 4, and (α^3)(β^3)=(αβ)^3=1, αβ=1 (as α>β>0), (α-β)^3=α^3+β^3-3αβ(α-β)=4-3(α-β), let α-β=γ, γ^3+3γ-4=0, γ^3+3γ-4=(γ-1)(γ^2+γ+4), γ=1 (as γ^2 +γ+4=0 is D=1^2-4*1*4=-15β>0 ,β= (-1 + √5) / 2, α = 3 √ (√5 + 2) = (1 + √5) / 2.

  • @souhilaoughlis5832
    @souhilaoughlis5832 3 роки тому

    I loved both methods

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому +1

      Thanks for the feedback!

  • @vcvartak7111
    @vcvartak7111 3 роки тому

    2nd method is systematic but getting a and b values is lengthy

  • @Nishant-us2il
    @Nishant-us2il 3 роки тому

    HOW DID YOU KNOW THE ROOT OF CUBIC WAS ROOT 5 ?? IN THIS VIDEO ?? ALSO OTHER THAN TRIAL AND ERROR IS THERE A GOOD METHOD TO FIND ROOTS OF CUBIC

    • @oenrn
      @oenrn 2 роки тому

      There is s cubic formula.

    • @Nishant-us2il
      @Nishant-us2il 2 роки тому

      @@oenrn too big to apply boss , especially in jee

  • @user-dz6pi4sm8u
    @user-dz6pi4sm8u 3 роки тому +1

    I prefer the first one.

  • @ramaprasadghosh717
    @ramaprasadghosh717 3 роки тому

    let x =(√5 +2)^(1/3) + (√5 -2)^(1/3) so x*x*x = 2√5 +3x
    x= √5 being a solution to this one
    this can be rewritten as
    (x-√5)(x*x + √5*x + 2) = 0
    or (√5 +2)^(1/3) + (√5 -2)^(1/3)= √5
    Similarly
    let y = (√5 +2)^(1/3) - (√5 -2)^(1/3)
    so y*y*y = 2*2 - 3y
    y= 1 being a solution to this one
    this can be rewritten as
    (y-1)(y*y + y + 4) = 0
    or (√5 +2)^(1/3) - (√5 -2)^(1/3)= 2
    Therefore
    (√5 +2)^(1/3) = (√5 +1)/2

  • @shqotequila
    @shqotequila 3 роки тому +1

    Great video! I've got some problem to solve but I don't know if my solution is correct or not, perhaps you can solve and I check
    Prove: sin(x)^8+cos(x)^8 >= 0.125

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 3 роки тому +4

      Let f : R -> R, f(x) = sin(x)^8 + cos(x)^8. Hence f'(x) = 8·sin(x)^7·cos(x) - 8·cos(x)^7·sin(x) = 8·sin(x)·cos(x)·[sin(x)^6 - cos(x)^6] = 4·sin(2·x)·[sin(x)^6 - cos(x)^6] = 0. Therefore, sin(2·x) = 0, or sin(x)^6 - cos(x)^6 = 0.
      If sin(2·x) = 0, then 2·x = n·π, with n being an element of Z. Thus x = n·π/2, and f(n·π/2) = sin(n·π/2)^8 + cos(n·π/2)^8 = a(n) + b(n), where a(n) = 0 if n is even, a(n) = 1 if n is odd, and b(n) = 1 if n is even, b(n) if is odd. Hence a(n) + b(n) = 1 for all n, and f(n·π/2) = 1 for all n.
      If sin(x)^6 - cos(x)^6 = 0, then [sin(x)^3 + cos(x)^3]·[sin(x)^3 - cos(x)^3] = 0. Therefore, sin(x)^3 = cos(x)^3, or sin(x)^3 = -cos(x)^3. Thus tan(x)^3 = 1, or tan(x)^3 = -1, so tan(x) = -1 or tan(x) = 1. Therefore, x = n·π + π/4, or x = n·π - π/4.
      f(n·π + π/4) = sin(n·π + π/4)^8 + cos(n·π + π/4)^8 = [sin(n·π)·cos(π/4) + cos(n·π)·sin(π/4)]^8 + [cos(n·π)·cos(π/4) - sin(n·π)·sin(π/4)] = cos(n·π)^8·sin(π/4)^8 + cos(n·π)^8·cos(π/4)^8 = sin(π/4)^8 + cos(π/4)^8 = f(π/4), while f(n·π - π/4) = sin(n·π - π/4)^8 + cos(n·π - π/4)^8 = [sin(n·π)·cos(π/4) - cos(n·π)·sin(π/4)]^8 + [cos(n·π)·cos(π/4) + sin(n·π)·sin(π/4)]^8 = cos(n·π)^8·sin(π/4)^8 + cos(n·π)^8·cos(π/4)^8 = sin(π/4)^8 + cos(π/4)^8 = f(π/4).
      f(π/4) = sin(π/4)^8 + cos(π/4)^8 = [1/sqrt(2)]^8 + [1/sqrt(2)]^8 = 1/2^4 + 1/2^4 = 2/2^4 = 1/2^3 = 1/8 = 0.125.
      Q. E. D.

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому +2

      @@angelmendez-rivera351 Oh, man! You are a legend!

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 3 роки тому

      @@SyberMath Thank you!

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому

      @@angelmendez-rivera351 Absolutely!

    • @shqotequila
      @shqotequila 3 роки тому

      @@angelmendez-rivera351 damn you are a beast, but the problem is I can't use derivatives

  • @adgf1x
    @adgf1x 3 роки тому

    (2plus minas 5^1/2)^1/3ans

  • @aliasgharheidaritabar9128
    @aliasgharheidaritabar9128 3 роки тому

    Tx pal.

  • @artemfokin7657
    @artemfokin7657 2 роки тому

    cool!

  • @binamahadani3267
    @binamahadani3267 3 роки тому

    u+1/ugreater than equal to 2

  • @federicopagano6590
    @federicopagano6590 3 роки тому

    OMG just grab the calculator 😂😂

  • @binamahadani3267
    @binamahadani3267 3 роки тому

    a=b=2

  • @tonyhaddad1394
    @tonyhaddad1394 3 роки тому +1

    First is better !!!!!!!!

    • @SyberMath
      @SyberMath  3 роки тому +2

      Thanks for the feedback, Tony!

  • @nitishjha8259
    @nitishjha8259 3 роки тому +1

    1st method is better

  • @subhashkumarsinha8252
    @subhashkumarsinha8252 3 роки тому

    2nd method is easier.

  • @udibaraj6714
    @udibaraj6714 3 роки тому

    Or you can use a
    Calculator and solve this problem in 10 seconds🤠