In a race having your normalised power and average power match is not good at all! If you sit in the bunch and keep your power as low as possible then when it’s required you have a large surge in power e.g. a sprint finish or a big 1 min effort to go with a breakaway etc your NP will end up been much higher than average power. The skill is knowing when to go hard and when to go easy.
Hey, I really appreciate the comment! I’m always open to hearing different points of view. My point on normalized power is that it is a data point attempting to measure the difference between variable and steady state effort, if you are able to beat the guy next to you and have a lower gap between average and normalized power, that means your ride felt easier, but you still won, and did so while being a more efficient rider. I compete in many 1-to-3-week GC based competitions as well, so this is my simple visual indicator to check in 5 seconds how efficient I was. If I’m able to have the same GC time as the group and have an easier ride, I am being more efficient and will have more energy left for the stages to come. I always think about how many huge sprints i have in the legs, if i can save one of these for later on in the race, I can hopefully beat someone slightly better/more powerful than myself. Once again, I do truly appreciate the comment!
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork thanks for the reply, I think I might have misunderstood the point you were raising initially. If you’re beating someone and the gap between your AP and NP is smaller then yes you have ridden a lot smoother and more efficiently than someone further back with a big difference between the two. It also absolutely makes sense for the GC races where you’re trying to save energy. I understand now you were using it as a comparison between other riders. The point I was making was thinking you were only using it as a measure for yourself without comparison to riders who finished in the same group as you. In this case in a race depending on the situation and course matching the AP and NP just as a stand alone analysis for how efficient you raced isn’t always applicable. For example in a very lumpy course you might need lots of shorter bursts of power to stay with the pack over short climbs and then you can effectively coast on the downhills, this will lead to a bigger difference in AP and NP but doesn’t mean you raced less efficiently as doing a constant AP would probably mean you get dropped. But I think now we were trying to make different points!
Yup, I completely get what your saying and I really do like the feedback. I re watched the part of a video a couple times, and agree that I could have made the point I was trying to make more clear! Always helpful as it helps me identify improvement areas for future videos!
Yea, I was just reading an article about the recent update on Zwift Insider about that. I've not rode since the newest release but heard it is supposed to be a bit easier and fix the issue. I imagine it may still be relatively harder than pre Pack Dynamics 4.1... but we will have to find out :)
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetworkI have no reference point pre-4.1 since I just started racing, so a bit glad that I don’t have something easier to compare it to 😂
What type of course profiles do you usually race? and did you recently cat up? I know when i catted up from C to B, I was constantly near the red zone just sitting in on flats as well
Should of been called the how to race negatively video! If no one chases a break, you might as well try even if it fries you. If you bring them back you at least have a chance of winning, if you let them go you have none. Always go for the win!!!
Watching NP section make me cringe. I also read some comment below about NP. If you look at all the winner they have super high NP and VI, due to ability to sprints, breakaway or punch steep hills, If you don't have high NP means you sucks at sprints and better stay in TT or alpe du zwift / ven top race...
I re-watched the video a couple times and realized i didnt make the point as clear as i would have like, another person pointed it out in the comment section below, and i clarified how the point is intended to come off. I said "less of the bar filled up than other riders in your race", after re-watching i noticed how that can not get the point across clearly. I should have more clear that it is a comparison relative to other riders, what i am getting at is that if you can beat someone and your gap between AP and NP is lower relative to the person you beat, you were more efficient than them. Sorry for any confusion!
Wrong! Your ‘bar’ shows how spikey your race was. Better racers go low power during the race and then unleash superpower resulting in a great ‘bar’. Try again
Very useful video, this week I’ve been that rider who keeps attacking !! So much fun but at some point I’ll upgrade and then draft again
😂 yea I feel like unless your a top 5% rider in your category, it's so hard to attack
Maybe I'll try sending one in an upcoming race though 😜
This was helpful, thanks! I didn't realize how much the draft effect jumps from 2nd to 3rd+ wheel!
Spot on info.
Great video David. Cheers
Thanks for the info!
Happy to provide it! I'm glad you found it helpful, and love getting the comment!
In a race having your normalised power and average power match is not good at all! If you sit in the bunch and keep your power as low as possible then when it’s required you have a large surge in power e.g. a sprint finish or a big 1 min effort to go with a breakaway etc your NP will end up been much higher than average power. The skill is knowing when to go hard and when to go easy.
Hey, I really appreciate the comment! I’m always open to hearing different points of view.
My point on normalized power is that it is a data point attempting to measure the difference between variable and steady state effort, if you are able to beat the guy next to you and have a lower gap between average and normalized power, that means your ride felt easier, but you still won, and did so while being a more efficient rider.
I compete in many 1-to-3-week GC based competitions as well, so this is my simple visual indicator to check in 5 seconds how efficient I was. If I’m able to have the same GC time as the group and have an easier ride, I am being more efficient and will have more energy left for the stages to come. I always think about how many huge sprints i have in the legs, if i can save one of these for later on in the race, I can hopefully beat someone slightly better/more powerful than myself.
Once again, I do truly appreciate the comment!
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork thanks for the reply, I think I might have misunderstood the point you were raising initially. If you’re beating someone and the gap between your AP and NP is smaller then yes you have ridden a lot smoother and more efficiently than someone further back with a big difference between the two. It also absolutely makes sense for the GC races where you’re trying to save energy. I understand now you were using it as a comparison between other riders.
The point I was making was thinking you were only using it as a measure for yourself without comparison to riders who finished in the same group as you. In this case in a race depending on the situation and course matching the AP and NP just as a stand alone analysis for how efficient you raced isn’t always applicable. For example in a very lumpy course you might need lots of shorter bursts of power to stay with the pack over short climbs and then you can effectively coast on the downhills, this will lead to a bigger difference in AP and NP but doesn’t mean you raced less efficiently as doing a constant AP would probably mean you get dropped. But I think now we were trying to make different points!
Yup, I completely get what your saying and I really do like the feedback. I re watched the part of a video a couple times, and agree that I could have made the point I was trying to make more clear!
Always helpful as it helps me identify improvement areas for future videos!
Nice to see two points of view being stated in a pleasant, respectful manner 🙂
Thanks 😊
Thanks for the info. I was wondering what the NP stood for.
happy to be able to help!
Apparently Pack Dynamics 4.1.1 is out now and it doesn't have the same sticky-wastey-watts tendency that you mention here :-)
Yea, I was just reading an article about the recent update on Zwift Insider about that. I've not rode since the newest release but heard it is supposed to be a bit easier and fix the issue. I imagine it may still be relatively harder than pre Pack Dynamics 4.1... but we will have to find out :)
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetworkI have no reference point pre-4.1 since I just started racing, so a bit glad that I don’t have something easier to compare it to 😂
Im on yellow to red simply keeping up in a group
What type of course profiles do you usually race? and did you recently cat up?
I know when i catted up from C to B, I was constantly near the red zone just sitting in on flats as well
@@ZwiftAnalysisNetwork no i always did c. Im not accepted to D.
I'm sure you'll get to the point where you can sit in the bunch in green / yellow zone. It just takes time unfortunately, but we've all been there 😂
Should of been called the how to race negatively video! If no one chases a break, you might as well try even if it fries you. If you bring them back you at least have a chance of winning, if you let them go you have none. Always go for the win!!!
...and win by using these power efficiently tactics.
Watching NP section make me cringe. I also read some comment below about NP. If you look at all the winner they have super high NP and VI, due to ability to sprints, breakaway or punch steep hills,
If you don't have high NP means you sucks at sprints and better stay in TT or alpe du zwift / ven top race...
I re-watched the video a couple times and realized i didnt make the point as clear as i would have like, another person pointed it out in the comment section below, and i clarified how the point is intended to come off.
I said "less of the bar filled up than other riders in your race", after re-watching i noticed how that can not get the point across clearly. I should have more clear that it is a comparison relative to other riders, what i am getting at is that if you can beat someone and your gap between AP and NP is lower relative to the person you beat, you were more efficient than them.
Sorry for any confusion!
Wrong! Your ‘bar’ shows how spikey your race was. Better racers go low power during the race and then unleash superpower resulting in a great ‘bar’. Try again
If everyone followed your advices then the races would be soooo boring