Oh man, I wish I knew this was being made cuz I woulda loved to give you proper formulas and tools. I'll go chronologically but like, I completely understand trusting the sources you used. I do think about editing the wikis at times but there's just so much work to be done there. Your work on this is actually really respectable but it just suffers from the foundational level. I am going to avoid critiquing loadouts and stuff, your dedication to timing attacks is impressive and I think you put a lot of work into this, I really do respect it. I will try to focus purely on data communicated the first time it is communicated. I'm gonna go chronologically for each correction here: 1:36 The damage formula displayed is reasonable here, however it's suffering from notation errors and somewhat out of date info. (this is also specifically for pve numbers) -The handedness multiplier being on both the top and bottom halves of the first formula would effectively negate any value change it could offer. -You're missing the opener to the first parenthesis, which is understandable but does add confusion to reading it. -RTSR in DS2 actually applies on the first 6x multiplier (thus it influences how much a character's Def will reduce damage, same thing with BTSR but that one does the second 6x). -Some moves actually add AR to the attack itself, which makes for another variable that is easily missed. -Giving Counter Damage just a passing mention is a mistake imo, you can consistently get counter hits in this game because the enemies are big and slow and are in a counter hit state a loooot of the time. Old Leo Ring also adding another 12.5% damage after that really makes it a force to consider. I think you based this off of the numbers Radai published a while back (which sadly, the og docs are lost media) www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/q7xv9l/dark_souls_ii_damage_calculation_formula_final/ They're pretty close to what we know to be true now but I did make some corrections when making the Damage Calculator and his help was greatly appreciated www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/17z4gym/indepth_automated_character_planner_damage/ 3:19 You got the hands backwards here, which is understandable 3:50 Weapon buff formulas you used seem to be based on the same Document, however there's some stuff left out that's actually really important -The AR it considers is based off of what the AR of the element would be if it were enabled while having some consideration for the affinity the weapon has for the current buff. In practice this can be higher or lower than what the weapon actually has. (plus the AR the buff adds) -This is then multiplied by the values you listed (tho x0.3 when it says x1.3 and similarly -1 for the rest) -You also get bonus damage if your weapon actually has AR of the corresponding type The resulting buff formula ends up working really interestingly www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/1b6hgmh/the_balancing_of_dark_souls_2_weapon_buffs/ 6:33 I think this is a misunderstanding of how infusing works -A lot of weapons actually do have Base AR multipliers that match what you're listing here, the issue is you're presenting them as damage multipliers. Weapons and attacks are actually completely consistent with how they work no matter the infusion. (this doesn't account for the rest of the corrections the infusions apply tho) -In your speech you compare Dragonrider's 400 Phys Def as being more noteworthy than the >50 Ele Def. The issue here is that you haven't presented the fact that Phys Def is a flat reduciton and Ele Def is percentage based, which gives the wrong impression on how it works. 12:00 Nitpick but the ogre is resistant to Slash and weak to Thrust so R2s woulda been faster, especially considering the 20% damage reduction from CoC 13:05 Whisper of Despair is hard to find numbers on but you got it right (nice) Will take this moment to point out spell buffs/debuffs scale duration with stats, WoD for example starts at 20s and gains 10 more at 14/24/34/44 INT 14:03 I have gone over most things that will be on these DPS screens so I'll just point out new stuff as it comes up -RTSR in DS2 actually applies to all damage types, not just Phys. Phys just gain the most due to it also reducing the effectiveness of defenses. (Spells don't get RTSR damage tho and Radai's document did say it was phys only, which is probably why you thought that) 16:06 Pine resins in general do have a really high additive AR, but not enough to where it woulda been more AR than GMW, however Najka is weak to the element and this is the only way to apply it, as such, still solid choice of buff. (mentioning this because elemental weaknesses haven't been mentioned so far) 16:50 Ring of blades actually adds 20 before infusion corrections, so here it's actually doing 10 14:41 2 things -Note that Flynn's Ring cares about Max Equip Load, saying it cares about Equip Load can be a bit confusing to new players. -Flynn's Ring doesn't actually care about infusions are anything, the 50 AR applies evenly to everything, even Staffs and stuff, unlike Blades (props for mentioning the correction here, I understand not wanting to find the right numbers for each weapon in each case) (If anyone was wondering, the easiest way to farm most Infusion Stones early game is by killing Basilisks in Things Betwixt or trading stones with the crows) 21:25 Engraved Gauntlets have a 10% chance of activating, I usually wouldn't say they're better or worse based on weapon speed but considering you're trying to kill in a few hits, it makes sense to say they're better on weapons that will hit more (theoretically it should give a 5% DPS boost) 24:35 I might have skipped over a Clutch Ring in a previous screen but I'll note here, Clutch Rings work the same as Blades and have their AR bonus altered by infusions. 24:50 I really don't understand where the idea that you need 2M souls for the Dark Clutch comes from, Shrine of winter, which is probably the gate you're considering only requires 1M Soul Memory on the first playthrough (and +1 for each cycle that you collected within that cycle) tho I doubt you had that at this point, even considering the awestone farming at the start 28:30 Good job clarifying Sacred Oath works the same as Ring of Blades +2, it also does a % based pve damage reduction, which I know isn't important in the run but felt like mentioning it here 32:20 DLC enemies actually have Melee Defenses in line with the Base Game enemies, the DLC damage reduction is specifically another layer of defense all enemies have that most base game enemies don't use that further reduces Ranged Damage (which applies to all "Bullets", including the drakewing special projectile, Smelter Sword's Explosion and other stuff) Congrats on hitless alonne, it's a real fun animation 34:00 the toes take standard damage, it really is that much of a damage sponge (you don't actually need to alternate toes on AD, you just need to learn when to walk into the toes and when to stand still) 34:40 the best boss in the game is actually Dark Lurker, no I will not take differing opinions (woulda been nice to see how high you got your DPS by hitting them on both bodies at once) Nice video, I reallllly wish I coulda given you the right info while in production, it woulda been such a fun resource to have in my back pocket. Ty if you got to the end of this, big love
Yeah it’s nuts. A ton of flat damage on boost! I honestly thought it was going to be the weapon of choice for a few bosses; it was too 15 for most of the endgame ones at the very least.
@@DietBajaBlast ds2 is the only one i love, did try ds1 but it was not fun for me, ds3 was good but halfway trough the game i lost motivation to play it further i will complet it someday but right now i dont really want to finish it. im playing my third ds2 playtrough right now, its the best imo.
This honestly might be what i needed to give ds2 another try. I completely avoided weapon infusion since it was so bad in 1, good to know that i should give it a chance in 2
Saw that this got uploaded while i was at work having a bad day. Knowing you posted was enough to carry me through the rest of my shift. Amazing content man, thank you
You can fight Ancient Dragon by hitting his head instead of his toes. Makes it easier to deal with since his fire breath attack is so slow compared to his stomps, and you can actually see what he's doing.
TBH dragon fights peaked with Midir in DS3 because it forced you to hit the head and face him head on…but his head was so big it was impossible to miss so it wasn’t an exercise in frustration. Unlike every other dragon in Elden ring which raise their heads way out the way
I know the mastodon halberd is pretty strong, but I’m surprised the ice rapier and red iron winblade didn’t make it. I thought even santier’s spear might show up at one point.
Iirc the red iron twinblade was consistently up there as far as dps. Just not quite as good as the mastodon halberd in most cases. Still a great weapon for a play through!
Not sure why I hadn't been recommended your videos sooner! Just watched your DS1 optimized, and I'm subbed to start DS2! Love the data and good mix of humor without being distracting
ayeee love to see it! I always thought the drakewing ultra greatsword was up there, but I think everyone knows about the mastodon halberd in the ds2 community lol
Dark Souls 1 will always be my favorite because it was my first but my rating of the souls games would be: Elden Ring (it is truly a masterpiece) > Dark Souls 1 > Dark Souls 2 > Demons Souls > Bloodborne (I don't like it as much but it was doing its own thing which) > Dark Souls 3 (i think it pandered to mass appeal the most which is not in the spirit of FromSoftware) I really like DS2 because of how weird and experimental it was and I see a lot of DS2 coming out in Elden Ring but done well with a proper budget and timeline Big thing to note is that I like chunkboi big armor strats the most which colors my view of the games. Bloodborne purposely eschewed this which I can acknowledge as a design choice. DS3 just treated heavy armor and weapons as an option poorly which I did not appreciate
great video. I know it took and immense amount of man hours and im thankful you went through that effort. I would like to see what some of the runners-up for dps you found in your research! Would be cool to see what the competition is like, but i understand you were already at length for the video! Appreciate the hard work as always
Heyyy, can't wait to use the information I learned in this video to do a "how hard is DS2 with the highest possible DPS" video that isn't actually the highest DPS because I forgot one random buff! awesome! Seriously though, I love these videos. I'd love to see the format in DeS, if that's even possible given the tools available for it.
Thanks for doing this! Personally I like powerstancing helix halberd and channelers trident to abuse the leo ring being very powerful in this game. Additionally, alot of bosses in ds2 can be inflicted with poison which not only does channelers trident have its attack up weapon skill, its heavy attack when it spins around can proc status multiple times. Albeit I wouldn’t recommend running status if you’re going for flat dps, just saying this for people who may like to run status builds in this series. With dual spotted whips being probably one of the best at this field.
i love souls games, but i actually really suck at them. ive never finished an NPC quest on my own, and I just pick weapons based on what looks cool. I wish i was better at understanding the nuances of the games, because the possibilities seem endless! Thanks for the vid ;)
Yeah that’s how I usually do that fight, makes it a lot easier. Unfortunately the dps drops down considerably as the R1 attacks are a fair bit weaker with a halberd, so it was a bit of a slog this go around
Great video! This is unironically my favourite souls game (I love the atmosphere) - also, did I blink or does this video not show footage of you fighting Giant Lord in the memory? I’m curious what your DPS strat is there as I’m grinding him for max stats (which is taking a long, long time)
Nope! I must’ve lost my footage somewhere unfortunately. Tends to happen with how I record (I just do the boss fights, and I had to redo him multiple times so must have deleted it when I was purging extra video files that weren’t gonna be included). Too bad to, as I had to dodge hits in between setting up buffs and debuffs as the run back takes like 30 seconds so doing them before the fog wall isn’t the best strategy.
@@trevthedev6134 my go-to has been just using dark weapon buff, +10 rusted iron twin blade (dark infusion) with rtsr & dark clutch rings. Once I pass the rolling statue head, I stand by one of the fires before the boss trigger to bring me into rtsr range, buff as my health chips down, then run in. I’m at +99 bonfire ascetic and he typically goes down within 9-12 R1 hits. I’m hesitant to use any of the resonant spells since I’m grinding for souls, but so far what I’ve found is that using red iron twinblade with all dark is the most effective.
I think when I did my platinum run I would use sorcery to grind levels. It’s been a while but soul spear / crystal soul spear seemed to be pretty good to whittle him down and then finish him off with hexes. I think I finished at roughly level 250 when all was said and done, can’t imagine going to max level!
Yeah there’s trade offs for actually maximizing dps down to a theoretical level lol. If I wanted to be super pedantic, you could say you would have to max out all damage stats before the first fight, but that’s not really in the spirit of the run. Fwiw even though I didn’t mention it I was up around maybe 25-30 endurance end game and was using the bloom kite shield. Just at earlier fights it would’ve put me above light load (and I dislike rolling in medium load in ds2)
havent seen this mentioned but flynns ring gets its damage buff off of your max equip load, not your equip load ratio, meaning to get optimal damage, you have to just avoid levelling vitality ( i think it caps out at like max load 60 or lower)
@@trevthedev6134 100% region-locked. I believe its the best way to play and will probably make the video more interesting than what would be a Giant-Crusher playthrough
I did not. I thought about it, but my thought was is pretty difficult to always guarantee a counter hit, and it would change the math significantly so I figured the best way was to just ignore it, at least for this run. It’s true that counter damage can get pretty nutty in ds2!
What I'm most surprised by is that even in the DLCs it still ended up being better to use elemental infusions instead of physical. It always seemed to me that the DLC had sky-high elemental resistances, though I wonder now if that's more true of the mob enemies than the bosses. The Mastodon Halberd has always hit like a truck, although I can't help but think the exact criteria you're using advantage weapons with really slow but hard-hitting attacks, compared to weapons that can much more reliably achieve something closer to their sheet DPS due to lower-commitment attacks. "DPS (if the enemy stands still and lets you hit them)" isn't what most people are really interesting in optimizing, but to be fair the math is easier, so to the white room we go!
DLC enemies have high ranged elemental defense. Their melee elemental defense is average. So an infused/buffed weapon is still optimal, but damage spells will see a significant drop off.
Yeah there is definitely some gray area in terms of how we want to optimize things when it comes to a game like dark souls, so the path of least resistance is just choosing a ‘true’ definition. I tend to stick with straight swords nowadays because of the ease of use
@@R1R1R2 It's wild that I'm only learning now, years after the fact, that DS2 had different resistances for melee and ranged. I'm looking at the chart now, and yeah; most DLC enemies have like 70% elemental resist specifically for projectiles. Crazy.
How big of a difference is there for vanilla DS2 and SOTFS? I’m familiar with the big changes but wonder if there was anything behind the scenes that was altered
Idk about mechanically as I’ve only ever played softs (only been playing souls for 2ish years), but I know one of the bigger changes was moving the dull ember to the lost bastille from iron keep. You get it way earlier in softs.
@@trevthedev6134If you play unpatched DS2 you have pre-nerf RTSR though which also works with spells. Which, incidentally, were also way stronger. Melee would probably be cast aside after earlygame in a OG DS2 run unless spells are specifically prohibited.
Why does every game calculate damage with these long strings of multiplication and division of seemingly random values instead of anything remotely simple?
I can answer that one for you, as I have some experience in modding and some dev thingies. For example, if you use a simple formula: Damage = attack - armor You will always run into issues of daggers being useless while giant hammers being the best (every time, no exceptions). So how do you manage the weapons without editing their speed, reach and other factors that make them unique? By adding variables to the formula. You make daggers do x1.03 damage from flanking, make spears scale x0.87 from a sword. Make magic damage not scale, make miracle damage scale only the physical aspect... tl;dr You do everything to make what the user sees simple while hiding all complicated formulas in the engine to balance out the combat and make sure every weapon interesting to use and make the numbers seem intuitive.
It’s on the docket! Just a casually 300+ weapons to compare, most with swappable ashes! 😅 (ok maybe a touch facetious but certainly a lot of work to figure out routing and stuff! Probably soonish after the dlc depending on how that shakes out?)
I'm completely ignorant on how this stuff works, but can someone explain why they need to make the damage calculations so complicated? Is it for balancing reasons or something?
More or less. Essentially, you don’t want it to be a simple attack - defense formula, otherwise, everything would be very samey and much more intuitive, and everyone would kind of default to using the same few weapons over and over. With this, the behind the scene math makes it more confusing to figure out what is best at a glance without testing yourself (or looking it up). Helps to keep the experience varied.
dagger. regular dagger. good ol reliable dagger. 1-handed r1 spam. your fight with the rotten would have been over before you even got your 2nd attack in with the mastodon halberd if you used the dagger. mastodon halberd is slower than old people fuck. you have to play checkers with bosses with slow weapons. your turn then my turn. dagger is so fast you just circle and take pot shots at him and just keep r1ing until you need to dodge an attack. the animation is so fast you almost never get punished for an attack
Yeah I mean I like using smaller weapons as well in ds2, especially with how much stamina bigger stuff uses. Although any fight against the rotten is pretty easy regardless haha
Really good work, but I’m pretty sure you can deal more dps (with or without spells) you surely know ray dhimitri, he made some crazy builds that seems destroy bosses faster, especially the early ones. However, if cheating is allowed, you can use parrywalk to reach endgame places early. Thank you for this colossal work, have a nice day
Yah I did watch some of his oneshot stuff when I did my video on ds2! I know a lot of his older stuff was back before they nerfed rtsr to only work with physical damage sadly
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Oh man, I wish I knew this was being made cuz I woulda loved to give you proper formulas and tools. I'll go chronologically but like, I completely understand trusting the sources you used. I do think about editing the wikis at times but there's just so much work to be done there.
Your work on this is actually really respectable but it just suffers from the foundational level. I am going to avoid critiquing loadouts and stuff, your dedication to timing attacks is impressive and I think you put a lot of work into this, I really do respect it. I will try to focus purely on data communicated the first time it is communicated.
I'm gonna go chronologically for each correction here:
1:36 The damage formula displayed is reasonable here, however it's suffering from notation errors and somewhat out of date info. (this is also specifically for pve numbers)
-The handedness multiplier being on both the top and bottom halves of the first formula would effectively negate any value change it could offer.
-You're missing the opener to the first parenthesis, which is understandable but does add confusion to reading it.
-RTSR in DS2 actually applies on the first 6x multiplier (thus it influences how much a character's Def will reduce damage, same thing with BTSR but that one does the second 6x).
-Some moves actually add AR to the attack itself, which makes for another variable that is easily missed.
-Giving Counter Damage just a passing mention is a mistake imo, you can consistently get counter hits in this game because the enemies are big and slow and are in a counter hit state a loooot of the time. Old Leo Ring also adding another 12.5% damage after that really makes it a force to consider.
I think you based this off of the numbers Radai published a while back (which sadly, the og docs are lost media) www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/q7xv9l/dark_souls_ii_damage_calculation_formula_final/
They're pretty close to what we know to be true now but I did make some corrections when making the Damage Calculator and his help was greatly appreciated www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/17z4gym/indepth_automated_character_planner_damage/
3:19 You got the hands backwards here, which is understandable
3:50 Weapon buff formulas you used seem to be based on the same Document, however there's some stuff left out that's actually really important
-The AR it considers is based off of what the AR of the element would be if it were enabled while having some consideration for the affinity the weapon has for the current buff. In practice this can be higher or lower than what the weapon actually has. (plus the AR the buff adds)
-This is then multiplied by the values you listed (tho x0.3 when it says x1.3 and similarly -1 for the rest)
-You also get bonus damage if your weapon actually has AR of the corresponding type
The resulting buff formula ends up working really interestingly www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/1b6hgmh/the_balancing_of_dark_souls_2_weapon_buffs/
6:33 I think this is a misunderstanding of how infusing works
-A lot of weapons actually do have Base AR multipliers that match what you're listing here, the issue is you're presenting them as damage multipliers. Weapons and attacks are actually completely consistent with how they work no matter the infusion. (this doesn't account for the rest of the corrections the infusions apply tho)
-In your speech you compare Dragonrider's 400 Phys Def as being more noteworthy than the >50 Ele Def. The issue here is that you haven't presented the fact that Phys Def is a flat reduciton and Ele Def is percentage based, which gives the wrong impression on how it works.
12:00 Nitpick but the ogre is resistant to Slash and weak to Thrust so R2s woulda been faster, especially considering the 20% damage reduction from CoC
13:05 Whisper of Despair is hard to find numbers on but you got it right (nice)
Will take this moment to point out spell buffs/debuffs scale duration with stats, WoD for example starts at 20s and gains 10 more at 14/24/34/44 INT
14:03 I have gone over most things that will be on these DPS screens so I'll just point out new stuff as it comes up
-RTSR in DS2 actually applies to all damage types, not just Phys. Phys just gain the most due to it also reducing the effectiveness of defenses. (Spells don't get RTSR damage tho and Radai's document did say it was phys only, which is probably why you thought that)
16:06 Pine resins in general do have a really high additive AR, but not enough to where it woulda been more AR than GMW, however Najka is weak to the element and this is the only way to apply it, as such, still solid choice of buff. (mentioning this because elemental weaknesses haven't been mentioned so far)
16:50 Ring of blades actually adds 20 before infusion corrections, so here it's actually doing 10
14:41 2 things
-Note that Flynn's Ring cares about Max Equip Load, saying it cares about Equip Load can be a bit confusing to new players.
-Flynn's Ring doesn't actually care about infusions are anything, the 50 AR applies evenly to everything, even Staffs and stuff, unlike Blades (props for mentioning the correction here, I understand not wanting to find the right numbers for each weapon in each case)
(If anyone was wondering, the easiest way to farm most Infusion Stones early game is by killing Basilisks in Things Betwixt or trading stones with the crows)
21:25 Engraved Gauntlets have a 10% chance of activating, I usually wouldn't say they're better or worse based on weapon speed but considering you're trying to kill in a few hits, it makes sense to say they're better on weapons that will hit more (theoretically it should give a 5% DPS boost)
24:35 I might have skipped over a Clutch Ring in a previous screen but I'll note here, Clutch Rings work the same as Blades and have their AR bonus altered by infusions.
24:50 I really don't understand where the idea that you need 2M souls for the Dark Clutch comes from, Shrine of winter, which is probably the gate you're considering only requires 1M Soul Memory on the first playthrough (and +1 for each cycle that you collected within that cycle) tho I doubt you had that at this point, even considering the awestone farming at the start
28:30 Good job clarifying Sacred Oath works the same as Ring of Blades +2, it also does a % based pve damage reduction, which I know isn't important in the run but felt like mentioning it here
32:20 DLC enemies actually have Melee Defenses in line with the Base Game enemies, the DLC damage reduction is specifically another layer of defense all enemies have that most base game enemies don't use that further reduces Ranged Damage (which applies to all "Bullets", including the drakewing special projectile, Smelter Sword's Explosion and other stuff)
Congrats on hitless alonne, it's a real fun animation
34:00 the toes take standard damage, it really is that much of a damage sponge (you don't actually need to alternate toes on AD, you just need to learn when to walk into the toes and when to stand still)
34:40 the best boss in the game is actually Dark Lurker, no I will not take differing opinions (woulda been nice to see how high you got your DPS by hitting them on both bodies at once)
Nice video, I reallllly wish I coulda given you the right info while in production, it woulda been such a fun resource to have in my back pocket. Ty if you got to the end of this, big love
Qui is a fucking saint 💖
Hell yeah, now we grow stronger
Bites you Bites you Bites you Bites you Bites you - love Katie
@@srovypupper5600 hi katie ;3
These are so interesting to watch. It's like he's challenge running an Excel file and Dark Souls is just also there
I now understand why my low level Watcher GS pvp build was so powerful. That buff calc is incredible
Yeah it’s nuts. A ton of flat damage on boost! I honestly thought it was going to be the weapon of choice for a few bosses; it was too 15 for most of the endgame ones at the very least.
It’s dark souls 2 because it’s twice as much math
Haha it’s actually less ‘total’ math but more complexity with the lack of damage multipliers in the game.
YES! Gimme all the math, my body is ready!
But the spirit is spongy and bruised.
Why even reading this makes me feel dirty
This game is an underrated gem
It's really not, everyone knows about ds2
@@DietBajaBlast ds2 is the only one i love, did try ds1 but it was not fun for me, ds3 was good but halfway trough the game i lost motivation to play it further i will complet it someday but right now i dont really want to finish it. im playing my third ds2 playtrough right now, its the best imo.
TLdr: regular weapon scaling in ds2 is so scuffed that an elemental infusion + matching elemental buff is generally your best bet.
This honestly might be what i needed to give ds2 another try. I completely avoided weapon infusion since it was so bad in 1, good to know that i should give it a chance in 2
OMG finally! I love your videos and love Dark Souls 2 the best! I think it’s the best of the trilogy and I’m gonna use this video to do a run.
The mastodon halberd was so good because the "sweetspot" was so damn large you didn't need to worry about spacing at all
Saw that this got uploaded while i was at work having a bad day. Knowing you posted was enough to carry me through the rest of my shift. Amazing content man, thank you
You can fight Ancient Dragon by hitting his head instead of his toes. Makes it easier to deal with since his fire breath attack is so slow compared to his stomps, and you can actually see what he's doing.
TBH dragon fights peaked with Midir in DS3 because it forced you to hit the head and face him head on…but his head was so big it was impossible to miss so it wasn’t an exercise in frustration. Unlike every other dragon in Elden ring which raise their heads way out the way
@@DelmworksI’d say the sunken dragon was better, with the durability forcing you to focus the head. Because midir lets you hang out in his torso
All the numbers in the game! Always a treat! Keep making great videos!
I know the mastodon halberd is pretty strong, but I’m surprised the ice rapier and red iron winblade didn’t make it. I thought even santier’s spear might show up at one point.
Iirc the red iron twinblade was consistently up there as far as dps. Just not quite as good as the mastodon halberd in most cases. Still a great weapon for a play through!
Saved this to listen on my morning drive to work. Love this series, keep up the great work!
Not sure why I hadn't been recommended your videos sooner! Just watched your DS1 optimized, and I'm subbed to start DS2! Love the data and good mix of humor without being distracting
Today I was asking myself when you would do this video and now your video pops for me. What a great way to end the day :)
ayeee love to see it! I always thought the drakewing ultra greatsword was up there, but I think everyone knows about the mastodon halberd in the ds2 community lol
This is a really interesting series that you've started here. Well done man I quite enjoyed this
Dark Souls 1 will always be my favorite because it was my first but my rating of the souls games would be:
Elden Ring (it is truly a masterpiece) > Dark Souls 1 > Dark Souls 2 > Demons Souls > Bloodborne (I don't like it as much but it was doing its own thing which) > Dark Souls 3 (i think it pandered to mass appeal the most which is not in the spirit of FromSoftware)
I really like DS2 because of how weird and experimental it was and I see a lot of DS2 coming out in Elden Ring but done well with a proper budget and timeline
Big thing to note is that I like chunkboi big armor strats the most which colors my view of the games. Bloodborne purposely eschewed this which I can acknowledge as a design choice. DS3 just treated heavy armor and weapons as an option poorly which I did not appreciate
WOOOO NEW TREV VIDEO. proud of your hard work and contributions
great video. I know it took and immense amount of man hours and im thankful you went through that effort. I would like to see what some of the runners-up for dps you found in your research! Would be cool to see what the competition is like, but i understand you were already at length for the video! Appreciate the hard work as always
Man I don‘t even know what to say. I just love your videos. Thank
you so much for making them
we love a good chart
Finally, Dark Souls 2 and mathematics - the dynamic duo.
Heyyy, can't wait to use the information I learned in this video to do a "how hard is DS2 with the highest possible DPS" video that isn't actually the highest DPS because I forgot one random buff! awesome!
Seriously though, I love these videos. I'd love to see the format in DeS, if that's even possible given the tools available for it.
You know Demon’s Souls is soon. Maybe next on my list or after ER, trying to fit one more video in before the DLC comes out!
Thanks for doing this! Personally I like powerstancing helix halberd and channelers trident to abuse the leo ring being very powerful in this game. Additionally, alot of bosses in ds2 can be inflicted with poison which not only does channelers trident have its attack up weapon skill, its heavy attack when it spins around can proc status multiple times.
Albeit I wouldn’t recommend running status if you’re going for flat dps, just saying this for people who may like to run status builds in this series. With dual spotted whips being probably one of the best at this field.
i love souls games, but i actually really suck at them. ive never finished an NPC quest on my own, and I just pick weapons based on what looks cool. I wish i was better at understanding the nuances of the games, because the possibilities seem endless! Thanks for the vid ;)
appreciate all the effort that went into this video, great work
Instructions unclear, I beat everything to death with a chime shield.
Wish there was more variety, lighting mastodon spear looks cool asf though.
Great vid!
Love this series!!
Goodluck on your UA-cam content creator journey ❤
love the in depth souls science!
i love this series so much, fantastic stuff.
Finally some Best Souls 2
Thank you for making the video!
The Mastodon Halberd looks like a cool weapon. I’ll have to give it a try sometime!
Oooh baby! Always a good day when trev posts a vid
I've been looking forward to this.
victory achieved, nice video to see on a sunday night
HEEEEY my beloved DS2 CAN'T wait to see
if you keep a torch light up in your hand the spiders dont attack, its a life saver
Yeah that’s how I usually do that fight, makes it a lot easier. Unfortunately the dps drops down considerably as the R1 attacks are a fair bit weaker with a halberd, so it was a bit of a slog this go around
A GOATED series
Been waiting for this
This is an incredible contribution for the Souls community. Thank you for your hard work and the great content!
NEEDED THIS BREAKDOWN
the amount of effort this took is INSANE to me. Congrats, you made something very interesting and helpful
Awesome work dude, looking forward to future number crunching I'm gay
very excited to watch, thank you for putting the effort into making this.
Damn bro! Nice job on the video!
Let's get a DS2 SL1 video please and thx.
now make a video with alchemically optimized dps
Great video! This is unironically my favourite souls game (I love the atmosphere) - also, did I blink or does this video not show footage of you fighting Giant Lord in the memory? I’m curious what your DPS strat is there as I’m grinding him for max stats (which is taking a long, long time)
Nope! I must’ve lost my footage somewhere unfortunately. Tends to happen with how I record (I just do the boss fights, and I had to redo him multiple times so must have deleted it when I was purging extra video files that weren’t gonna be included). Too bad to, as I had to dodge hits in between setting up buffs and debuffs as the run back takes like 30 seconds so doing them before the fog wall isn’t the best strategy.
@@trevthedev6134 my go-to has been just using dark weapon buff, +10 rusted iron twin blade (dark infusion) with rtsr & dark clutch rings. Once I pass the rolling statue head, I stand by one of the fires before the boss trigger to bring me into rtsr range, buff as my health chips down, then run in. I’m at +99 bonfire ascetic and he typically goes down within 9-12 R1 hits.
I’m hesitant to use any of the resonant spells since I’m grinding for souls, but so far what I’ve found is that using red iron twinblade with all dark is the most effective.
I think when I did my platinum run I would use sorcery to grind levels. It’s been a while but soul spear / crystal soul spear seemed to be pretty good to whittle him down and then finish him off with hexes. I think I finished at roughly level 250 when all was said and done, can’t imagine going to max level!
Maybe I’m new here, but I feel like you could have significantly more practical damage if you leveled endurance more and used some stamina regen
Yeah there’s trade offs for actually maximizing dps down to a theoretical level lol. If I wanted to be super pedantic, you could say you would have to max out all damage stats before the first fight, but that’s not really in the spirit of the run. Fwiw even though I didn’t mention it I was up around maybe 25-30 endurance end game and was using the bloom kite shield. Just at earlier fights it would’ve put me above light load (and I dislike rolling in medium load in ds2)
Please do the median optimised build
havent seen this mentioned but flynns ring gets its damage buff off of your max equip load, not your equip load ratio, meaning to get optimal damage, you have to just avoid levelling vitality ( i think it caps out at like max load 60 or lower)
Yeah 60 max load. I think I needed 2 levels in vitality to not fat roll for the dlc bosses where I was using the stamina regen shield.
this the kind of stuff a nerd would stuff you in a locker for watching. we reached a new level
Hellll yeah! Dark souls 2!!!!
King post! 👑
U earn a sub man u deserve it
Little bit of math for best souls 2 hell yeah.
Mathematically Optimized DPS °_°
Awesome video
I would love to see this done for Elden Ring
Maybe even pre and post DLC?
We’ll have to see what the dlc brings. I definitely plan on doing it however! Probably region locked as well to make it a little more interesting?
@@trevthedev6134 I think region locked would be a lot more interesting!
@@trevthedev6134 100% region-locked. I believe its the best way to play and will probably make the video more interesting than what would be a Giant-Crusher playthrough
good video! I appreciate you!
Did you account for counter damage? That's a huge difference makern
I did not. I thought about it, but my thought was is pretty difficult to always guarantee a counter hit, and it would change the math significantly so I figured the best way was to just ignore it, at least for this run. It’s true that counter damage can get pretty nutty in ds2!
What I'm most surprised by is that even in the DLCs it still ended up being better to use elemental infusions instead of physical. It always seemed to me that the DLC had sky-high elemental resistances, though I wonder now if that's more true of the mob enemies than the bosses.
The Mastodon Halberd has always hit like a truck, although I can't help but think the exact criteria you're using advantage weapons with really slow but hard-hitting attacks, compared to weapons that can much more reliably achieve something closer to their sheet DPS due to lower-commitment attacks. "DPS (if the enemy stands still and lets you hit them)" isn't what most people are really interesting in optimizing, but to be fair the math is easier, so to the white room we go!
DLC enemies have high ranged elemental defense. Their melee elemental defense is average. So an infused/buffed weapon is still optimal, but damage spells will see a significant drop off.
Yeah there is definitely some gray area in terms of how we want to optimize things when it comes to a game like dark souls, so the path of least resistance is just choosing a ‘true’ definition. I tend to stick with straight swords nowadays because of the ease of use
@@R1R1R2 It's wild that I'm only learning now, years after the fact, that DS2 had different resistances for melee and ranged. I'm looking at the chart now, and yeah; most DLC enemies have like 70% elemental resist specifically for projectiles. Crazy.
How big of a difference is there for vanilla DS2 and SOTFS? I’m familiar with the big changes but wonder if there was anything behind the scenes that was altered
Idk about mechanically as I’ve only ever played softs (only been playing souls for 2ish years), but I know one of the bigger changes was moving the dull ember to the lost bastille from iron keep. You get it way earlier in softs.
@@trevthedev6134If you play unpatched DS2 you have pre-nerf RTSR though which also works with spells. Which, incidentally, were also way stronger. Melee would probably be cast aside after earlygame in a OG DS2 run unless spells are specifically prohibited.
How about dragon buff?
Thanks!
Why does every game calculate damage with these long strings of multiplication and division of seemingly random values instead of anything remotely simple?
I can answer that one for you, as I have some experience in modding and some dev thingies.
For example, if you use a simple formula:
Damage = attack - armor
You will always run into issues of daggers being useless while giant hammers being the best (every time, no exceptions).
So how do you manage the weapons without editing their speed, reach and other factors that make them unique? By adding variables to the formula. You make daggers do x1.03 damage from flanking, make spears scale x0.87 from a sword. Make magic damage not scale, make miracle damage scale only the physical aspect...
tl;dr
You do everything to make what the user sees simple while hiding all complicated formulas in the engine to balance out the combat and make sure every weapon interesting to use and make the numbers seem intuitive.
MMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH BABY MORE MATH MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM KEEP IT COMING!
Those are some good numbers. 👌❤
in dont get the equation : (6x*Y-Z)/6x = Y-Z, no ?
Yeah I was talking with someone last night and I guess it’s actually slightly different than what I had.
Any chance of an optimized DS2 casting video in the future?
Certainly a possibility. I think weapons versions tend to be a little more interesting, but ds2 is pretty unique casting-wise.
Post the weapon graph you made please?
Elden ring next?!?!
It’s on the docket! Just a casually 300+ weapons to compare, most with swappable ashes! 😅 (ok maybe a touch facetious but certainly a lot of work to figure out routing and stuff! Probably soonish after the dlc depending on how that shakes out?)
I'm completely ignorant on how this stuff works, but can someone explain why they need to make the damage calculations so complicated? Is it for balancing reasons or something?
More or less. Essentially, you don’t want it to be a simple attack - defense formula, otherwise, everything would be very samey and much more intuitive, and everyone would kind of default to using the same few weapons over and over. With this, the behind the scene math makes it more confusing to figure out what is best at a glance without testing yourself (or looking it up). Helps to keep the experience varied.
Is this vanilla version or SOTFS?
Softs. Vanilla would probably be a bit different by rushing to iron peak to get the dull ember
Cooking with gas
Do you use a PS4/5 controller with Ds4windows?
Yep! Ps5 controller. Works great
Goat
Is there going to be mage version?
I might do one in the future. The ds3 magic one didn’t do quite as well but I don’t want to dissuade myself from doing it
dagger. regular dagger. good ol reliable dagger. 1-handed r1 spam. your fight with the rotten would have been over before you even got your 2nd attack in with the mastodon halberd if you used the dagger. mastodon halberd is slower than old people fuck. you have to play checkers with bosses with slow weapons. your turn then my turn. dagger is so fast you just circle and take pot shots at him and just keep r1ing until you need to dodge an attack. the animation is so fast you almost never get punished for an attack
Yeah I mean I like using smaller weapons as well in ds2, especially with how much stamina bigger stuff uses. Although any fight against the rotten is pretty easy regardless haha
🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣BOSS WEAPONS
This is why i like DS2 the build variety is insane. If you wanna see some cool builds check out Yazmania, guy is carrying DS2 content.
Have t watched yet but im betting the dark infused ice rapier with certain rings and R1 spamming will be the best consistent dps
literally 1st nice
Powerstance giant clubs or crypt blacksword is for sure going to be highest dps...
This isnt true optimized dps true optimized dps would be with the ai turned off and 2 summons using the exact same build
Everything about DS2 is so wrong
I'll never be mean again daddy, godbless !
Best DPS in the best game.
I think you could do a video about weapon buffs and weapons that have inbuilt "weapon buffs" like the Katana.
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we getting the Illusory Ring of a Conqueror with this one 🔥🔥🔥
You deserve far more subscribers man, well done i really like this series
Love me math, love me spreadsheets, love me Ds2, simple as'.
great video man i have been waiting for this one!
Really good work, but I’m pretty sure you can deal more dps (with or without spells) you surely know ray dhimitri, he made some crazy builds that seems destroy bosses faster, especially the early ones. However, if cheating is allowed, you can use parrywalk to reach endgame places early.
Thank you for this colossal work, have a nice day
Yah I did watch some of his oneshot stuff when I did my video on ds2! I know a lot of his older stuff was back before they nerfed rtsr to only work with physical damage sadly